EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,160 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- JFJohn Fetterman
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) All right, man, we're rolling. What's happenin'? Nice to meet ya.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Oh, hey man. It's so, it's awesome to be here, man, really. Yeah, like, I gotta say hi to my, my son is just so thrilled. He's like, you know, he's 15 and he literally freaked out. He's like, "Oh my God," and all, and all of his friends are gonna definitely be watching too.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's his name?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's his name?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Karl with a K, and I-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JFJohn Fetterman
... I met a, I met a Carl in the lobby, but, uh, it's a C, but, uh (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a, not a human. A non-human Carl, yeah. Well, what's up, human Carl?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, so first of all, are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits when you're a senator?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, yeah, no, it's, it's, uh... I'm sorry, what was that, s-?
- JRJoe Rogan
I said, are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits as a senator?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Oh, okay. (laughs) Yeah, no, I, well, I, I know it might, it seems, uh, strange, but it's like, uh, I mean, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a bigger guy, and, and I don't really can't afford c- uh, custom anyway. And I hate, uh, I'm claustrophobic and I hate them being in that kind of shit. And, uh, I've always dressed like, like shit, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JFJohn Fetterman
... you know, and, and I know, and, and then that whole thing kind of got away, uh, of us, um, people assumed that there was a, a dress code issue there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And I'm like, "No, I wasn't behind that, behind that." But, of course, everybody pointed at the, at the dude that dresses like a slob.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JFJohn Fetterman
And, and, and then the whole, the whole nation just had like a meltdown, like, "Oh my God, the Senate's on fire because, uh, I dress like a slob." Uh, but, but, uh, my life is just much better in DC that unless that I'm gonna be on the floor, that I'm not gonna be, (laughs) you're never gonna see me in a suit. And, uh, I think that's a more authentic kind of way that I live. And, uh, I don't judge anybody on how they dress or those things. Uh, I, I just dress this way and there's also practical issues as well too. Like, I have, I have chopstick legs and I have no ass, and I can't keep pants up. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JFJohn Fetterman
And, and, and hoodies, and hoodies, it's like I don't have to iron that shit. You know, so, it, it's just like easy, it's comfort. And it's like, uh, I just feel like that's, I mean... And if somebody judged me, and people have said that, uh, but it's like I'd rather have somebody know. And I, I promise you, a lot of people and dudes, eh, especially in Western Pennsylvania, love to wear suits all year. I mean, uh, excuse me, shorts all year, uh, and dress like that. But, eh, to me it's about comfort and practical.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I mean, it makes sense. The, the whole dress code thing, wearing suits, and you're, you're more serious because you have certain clothing on, it seems pretty silly.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, uh, I'm sorry, what's that? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Are you... So, let's, let's tell everybody what's going on with your iPad. So because you had a stroke, you have-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Oh yeah, h-
- JRJoe Rogan
... difficulty. Do you have difficulty hearing, or?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, no, I can hear just p- I can hear just perfectly r- right now. Uh, and, uh, but, uh, th- there's just, uh, the one kind of a lingering issue. There's a lingering issue, um, and, and sometimes I lose just a couple steps on time. And then now, after that, that's the only thing. And thankfully, the stroke never touched my intellect things. Uh, uh, but the, but the stroke nearly killed me. And again, I don't... Uh, but, uh, I use captioning in situations just like this, uh, in interviews. That's, so that's why I can, I can really make sure exactly what's being said. And then I can able, uh, just participate. If somebody wears the glasses, it doesn't mean that they're illiterate, it just means they just, that's a tool that allows them to partic-icipate, or drive or those things. And it's that same thing, and a lot of people across America use captioning to watch movies and TV, and that's really no different than that.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Well, I mean, it,…
- JRJoe Rogan
just happened.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, I mean, it, it was AFib, and, and, and my heart weakened, and the stress of the, of the primary, and on the ongoing kinds of issues, uh, it was already weakened about that issue earlier, and everything kind of came together, and my... I guess my heart deteriorated to the point where that, uh, that caused, uh, the clot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And then, uh, the clot, that's what nearly took my, took my life.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whew. So then you have to go to work. So now you are an elected senator, and you have to go to work in the middle of recovery.
- JFJohn Fetterman
I- yeah, uh, it, it's, uh... I, I, I think, uh... I, I mean, it, it, it's, it's so diff- it's... Uh, I had a significant responsibility, uh, uh, to, to stay in that and, and winning through all of those things, uh, and that's... that was, uh, that was difficult enough. Um, it was an important conversation, and we had to run a campaign. We had to run a campaign, uh, when I was... it was difficult, uh, and I wasn't working at the kind of capacity that was necessary, uh, and that's, uh... We had to run up to the, um, the 15th of August to decide if we're going to stay in that, because there's a lot riding on that.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you were also competing against Dr. Oz, which was weird. You know, this guy who's a celebrity doctor, who's at least a little shady.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, no, it, it's, uh... It, it necessarily was the, the... Yeah, I, I think, uh, I... You know, we were talking about captioning earlier, right now, and, uh, uh, I, I think we're having an issue with some of the, the, the captioning right now here.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it not showing up?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, yeah, there... I think there's a little, there's a little bit of a delay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, maybe it's the way I said shady.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's a little shady.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like he, he had been trouble for talking about miracle diet remedies that weren't miracles at all, and he... I believe he-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... got brought in front of Congress. So it was a little odd that that guy was running for Senate at all. Was he from Pennsylvania?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, well, uh, Dr., Dr. Oz, yeah, I, I think, I think from a technology... I think we have to address the, the, the captioning.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, is it messing up right now?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, I, I think the captioning. Uh, the, the captioning is running a little bit b- behind on here.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- JFJohn Fetterman
So can we make some technological- Stop and have her-
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- JFJohn Fetterman
... fix it. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. We'll have her come fix it.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah. Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
We'll pause here, ladies and gentlemen. We'll be right back.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, I think we're... I think we are good. Seems good to me. I think we're good to go. We- We'll take the headphones off. Yeah, we put this on the Wi-Fi, so-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And it's, it's working great here.
- 30:00 – 45:00
(clears throat) …
- JFJohn Fetterman
of a, of a small town. And, uh, we had problems with, uh, inequality, uh, in a community that 90%, uh, of the population, uh, abandoned the community and left.
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- JFJohn Fetterman
And if anyone's aware of the US Steel, I mean, I live right now across the street from that iconic steel mill. I mean, that's really what, that, that used to be America's Silicon Valley, like, uh, ha- about half of the world's steel used to be manufactured there. Uh, but now so much has changed. Uh, and then I ran for mayor in a small town mayor, and, and then that turned into, well, I decided like the kinds of issues that were meaningful to me and the personal kinds of experiences, I, I just thought, uh, hey, I want to project my kinds of experiences and my values. And I started, uh, to... I ran for, I ran for the first time in 2016. I ran for the senate. I mean, it's pretty kind of strange that you have a small town mayor running for the United States Senate.And, uh, but I mean, we had no money. I mean, zero, zero money on that. But we just, we'd had a really, like, grassroots kind of a thing, and we got out across Pennsylvania, and we, uh, we came up a little short, but we, we pulled in 20% of the, of the votes, which that was pretty, pretty ... People thought that was pretty remarkable, and I carried my home, uh, county, which is Allegheny. That's the second-largest. And that really kinda set the stage, uh, to run for lieutenant governor a couple years later after 2016. But 2016, though, that was where America met Donald Trump, and, and I was, I was early, you know, uh, turning the alarm off, saying, "Hey, we have to be concerned here." Like, you know, Trump has connected with people, uh, in ways, uh, that it's like, we have to be concerned. And I'll never forget, it was June in 2016, and I was a, I was a, I was a surrogate for, uh, for Clinton, and, and Trump announced, "Hey, I'm showing up in a town called Monessen, Monessen," which is a small, uh, steel town in the valley do- down from, from ours. And I'm like, "Why the ... Why is he showing up in ... Uh, I mean, that's not ... Uh, like, so either he's crazy or they've, they've plugged into something, and, like, I have to see that." So I, I tried to get into that just to kinda see what was going on, but, uh, they, they recognized me and they said, "Yeah, get the fuck out."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh ... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
But you're hard to hide. (laughs)
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, yeah, and, and so but, but there, like, they figured out that they have to connect and to make that kind of an argument to go to these kind of, uh, uh, places, and it, it, it, it did. It resonated, and you started to see a lot of the signs and a lot of the energy, and it's like, "Hey," you know, "there's, there's a, there's a problem." Uh, and the, the Clinton campaign, uh, everybody assumed that she was gonna, you know, run away with it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And, and they made, they made the, the mistake of just showing up in Philadelphia, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, and assumed that they were gonna be okay, but, but a lot had slipped. And now, the margins ... Trump created, uh, r- margins that were unheard. Uh, like, you know, we referred to them as Romney margins, so in other words, you have red counties and Romney would c- uh, they would cover those by about 60 to 65%, and Trump did. He created 80s, 80s. We were losing 80/20, 80/20, and, like, well, yeah, that's a small county, but yeah, you multiple that by 57, 57 other counties, and that's how they scale up, and that's how he won, and he won by 45,000 votes. And that's why he captured the blue wall and that made him president, and here we are right now. The, the, the blue wall is ... They're both fighting on the, the blue wall, and the blue wall is Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm. When, when you were running, wh- uh, d- during 2016, what were you trying to accomplish? Like, what did, what did you want to do that you felt-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... like you could uniquely provide a service for?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, well, it wasn't ... I just think it was just different. I'm like, "Hey, I was running, I was running for about forg- uh, forgotten places, people where America's turned their backs on them, and talking about those, those kinds of important issues, like a living wage, um, abandoning, uh, the industrial parts of, of America." You know, uh, some people watching, uh, what, what things have been left behind in places like Braddock, it's like, uh ... It's astonishing. Uh, 90% of people left, and 90% of the buildings are gone, and that whole region has just been, uh, just, uh, thrown, thrown away. Uh, so I just wanted ... Uh, I didn't th- ... Uh, you know, there was a path. I mean, there were two other people, uh, in the primary, uh, and I thought I could maybe split, I could split the other two and just sneak by and get 33% plus one extra vote, but I, I came up a little short because I had no money because it's always going to be about money. Uh, and then, uh, Katie McGinty, she won, but she lost, and, and then that ... That was that same cycle, and then, um, in that, the same year that, that Trump won.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so since you've been in, since you've gotten into the Senate, what meaningful change have you been able to accomplish there?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, uh, again, you're, you're a freshman, and, you know, my colleague and one that was, was just here, uh, uh, Senator Vance. I mean, we were both in the same cycle. We both ran in '22, so we've both there for less than two years, and y- it's really based on seniority, and it's just kinda like, "Hey, get on the end of that line," (laughs) you know? Uh, so you are a freshman, and it's, you know, your influence is, you know, at least, uh, in the institution are, are limited in some sense. But if you have a bigger platform, and I did, and I'd try to have those kinds of impacts and having those conversations, but my, my first couple, uh, first half of that first year, uh, that was a, a little, took a different, uh, detour, uh, because, you know, I, I was dealing with, uh, with depression. I was, uh, de- depression, and I realized that I was in a, in a bad place. Uh, so, so having that, uh, having to make those kinda choices, and I signed myself into Walter Reed to get help because the depression and, and, um ... So I, I think, uh, it's an important conversation.And I knew... I, I thought at that time, it could be... politically, it could be difficult. Uh, but I thought it was important and, and now if that costs me something politically, I'm okay. Uh, so that's why I'm continuing. So how I've... the impact I've had, I never fully expected that that voice would, would break through. And I'm, I'm in contact with people constantly saying, "Thank you for, for talking about this." Um, "I chose to get help." Um, or, "I, I chose not to, to, uh, follow that path on self-harm." And, uh, so I've had active conversations with member of Congress or fathers with, with younger kids and they're like, "Hey, can you please talk?" And I, and I do that. I'm happy to talk to anybody. And, and so that's a way I've had an impact through, through all of that. And also my voice through, uh, after what happened on 10/07th, uh, uh, you know, October 7th. Uh, and I've decided I was gonna be a very consistent voice, uh, for, for Israel through that. So, that's why kind of like the platform, but in terms of if anyone's being honest, whether it was, uh, Senator Vance or any kinds of freshmen, uh, senators, it's very limited because otherwise, there's people that have been there for 25, 30 years. They are the ones that are gonna be the chairman. And if you're a minority party, you have incredibly limited kinds of ability to, to, to move a... an agenda.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, the, the depression thing, I think, it's very important, eh, that you talked about that. I think, uh, transparency is something that people really appreciate. Uh, so many people suffer from depression. It's such a normal part of being a human being. And for a guy like you who's a senator, who's already gone through being attacked, already gone through all these, uh, uh, horrible things that they said about you while you were recovering from a stroke, it takes a lot of courage to, to come out and discuss that.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
I think it's really important. I'm, I'm really glad you did it.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, I don't... uh, uh, well, thank you, but, uh, I don't think it was really c- courage. It's like I only had a choice. I, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it is courage because you, you know you're gonna be publicly attacked and it's a vulnerable point. But I think it's not, because I think so many people suffer from it. I think y- there, there's courage in coming out and, and talking about it openly and realizing that people are gonna use it as an attack vector and saying, "You know what? This is important to talk about. This is important to acknowledge and to, to show people-"
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"... that you can recover from something like that."
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, uh, originally, I was just gonna talk about depression. And, uh, it... there's a paradox. You know, you might be a place in your life that, that you've actually kinda won, but, uh, d- depression lies to you and it convinces you that you've lost. And my depression got far more worse after I "won". Uh, and, and then it, it was, uh... it was a downward spiral. And then y- if you don't, if you don't check your depression, then you go down a, a dangerous slope, uh, about self-harm. And I started to have... I got to, to, to occupy that kind of a dark place. And, um, and that's when I realized that I have a choice. It's like, if I don't, uh, uh, address this, uh, then, um, I, I had, I had an emergency break, you know? I, uh... it's like I, I have to stop, I have to stop. I have to, uh... and that was my kids. I'm like, "I c- I, I'm like, I cannot be... I can't be the example." And when you're gonna b- get older in life and you're gonna have those kinds of challenge, "Well, hey, Dad decided to, to leave. Oh, that must be the right thing." And I'm like, "I will... I cannot allow myself to be, uh, the example for that." So I, I stayed in the game and, and I was able to get help an- and I got much better. So like, for me, it's like, I originally didn't wanna talk about self-harm 'cause that's definitely, that's definitely not a great political winner.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JFJohn Fetterman
But I, I was like, "I have to be answered..." uh, excuse me, "I have to be honored about that and, and honest." And, uh, and people... that really resonated with people. I was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JFJohn Fetterman
... I think the first person, I was the first politician, especially at, at that level, talking about self-harm. And, you know, if people are s- uh, that are suffering, people that... I mean, you have a huge, a huge, uh, audience. I'm willing to bet plenty of them are suffering from that or looking through those kinds of issues.
- JRJoe Rogan
No doubt. No doubt.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, uh, I s- uh, you know, I promise people, whatever your path, whatever your path is for recovery, uh, and I'm not an expert, but if you promise yourself to stay in that game, stay in that game, that you are ready, you know, you're almost guaranteed to get better because I promise you, it will get better. And I was at the point where I was really, you know, in a very dark place and, uh, I stayed in that game and I am staying in front of, as- in front of you right now and having this conversation. And, uh, so that's what I try to tell everybody, whether they're listening today or in other times when I've had that. Uh, it's i- it's an honest conversation, but it is a red and blue conversation, and it's a rural and urban or suburban conversation. It's men or women or even younger kids. I've had conversations with teenagers, you know, with their parents, and they've even tried to take their lives. And I can't think of anything much more tragic than, especially a young person, taking their lives over some of the things that, that, um... and, and, uh, I never thought that, that voice would, would penetrate, but it did, and that's why I'm willing to have that conversation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's... apparently, it's very common for people that undergo major surgery to, uh, have depression afterwards. And there's a, th- the bunch of physiological reasons for that, they believe. My friend, Dr. Mark Gordon, who's done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries and, uh, depression amongst athletes and soldiers, he did a lot of research on that. And one of, one of the things that they found was that people that undergo, uh, like a long period of anesthesia and either heart surgery or any kinda major surgery, there's a disruption of your endocrine system afterwards that leads people to be, uh, just w- weary and broken down. And I could imagine that along with the Senate race and all the other chaos-
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
I have a friend…
- JFJohn Fetterman
to, back to that very dark place. And, and I just, you know, I just tell everybody, "I'm beg- I'm begging you, stay in that game. I promise you, it can get better. And the, the, the depression is lying to you. It is absolutely lying to you." And, uh, is, but don't make the kinda choice that you can't come back from.
- JRJoe Rogan
I have a friend who, uh, jumped off the bridge, died that way. Y- you know. It's, uh, it's a terrible, just a, a, a terrible thing to find out, and you, you always feel like you could've talked to them, you could've helped. You always feel like, uh, yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know he was suffering. And then I found out that he died, uh, few days later, and it was just like...
- JFJohn Fetterman
K- I know, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
It just leaves you feeling so lost. It's such a terrible way to go, too. That bridge, god. How many people, like, what'd you say? How many people have jumped off that bridge, the Golden Gate?
- JFJohn Fetterman
I, I think that they, they reference a, about over 1,800 people. Uh, and a, a small, small tiny survived. Uh, and, and really, being faced that idea that you're not gonna come back, uh, it's, it's like spontaneously curative. Like, "Oh my god, I wanna live, I wanna live, I wanna live." Like, it's, it's u- it was unanimous about. Uh, and, and that's such an important kinds of re- uh, research that, that, that he did. Um, and it, it's like i- and, and again, like, that's my message. It has to be very simple. Stay in that game. It- it's like you, you can't do this. You can't do this.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you need support.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, yeah, yeah. You need support, whatever that is. And some people have different kinds of resources. I mean, I would want that for everybody, the resources that I had, and that's not fair. It- it's not fair. Um, and it, it ... I got lucky. It's not because I'm like, I'm a so much stronger or, or better. It's like, no, no. I just got lucky on that. And I promise you, you're not going to regret staying in the game. And you can get better, and that is probably, I think, in my, uh, in my opinion, that's about 75% of, of getting back better.
- JRJoe Rogan
What have you done to, to help? What has helped you?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, my, my family. Th- that, that's, that's really what ... uh, like, every, every person needs to have like, uh, that emerg- I call that, like, an emergency break. They, it's like, you know, you are o- you're out of control. You know, you're having that, the darkest conversation you'll have with yourself, and you have to have some- something to stop that. Otherwise, it's, you're gonna go over the edge. And, and everyone needs to have that, uh, of whatever that is. Whether it's your family, whether it's your wife or your husband, or whether it is, uh, uh, or this, that there has to be some ... uh, it has to get better. It's gonna get better. You know, it's, that's why I say stay on the game. And I'm not an expert. I'm not trained in that. But when people reach out to me and say, "Well, I feel like this," and w- and I'm like, "Hey." It's like, you know, help works. I promise you, it will get better. And I can't guarantee what your path will be, but what I can say is, is that stay in that game, and you are gonna find your way on that path. And you're never going (laughs) to regret. It's like, oh, you know, be, uh, uh, it, it's, it just, it, it, the, the finality, the finality of that. Uh, and your n- uh, uh, something s- you, you can make a bad choice, and, you know, well, that might set you back in life, but, but that's the, that's the one ch- uh, the one choice you can't come back from. And you will leave people in your life that they'll never understand or you wish you could reach back and you could let them know, uh, and it-... stay away from that kind of blackness because, uh, you're ... I promise you, you would regret, uh ... and, and if you can't come back.
- JRJoe Rogan
So what, what has helped you? Counseling, medication? Like what, uh, what did ... what are the things that got you back on track, other than just your family?
- JFJohn Fetterman
I, um ... The election, uh, and everything, I was convinced that I've lost everything. Uh, I had, uh, it was difficult to, to fully speak. And my, my kids, they got pulled into the social media kinds of, uh, invective. And, um, uh, it's like I've, I've destroyed my, my health. I've, I've, uh ... and now I've, uh, uh, uh, a- against, you know, odds, I, I won. Uh, and now am I gonna be able to do this job? And, and, you know, uh, uh, uh, would I have been better off, uh, if, if I didn't survive? Uh, and, uh, I got to that, that kind of a, uh, uh, dark place. But, um ... and then I just had this, like, that spontaneous, where, where it's like, uh, uh, my kids, it's like, uh, uh, "No, I love you." Like, oh my gosh, it's like ... Like when they were visiting, uh, I didn't want them to visit me at Walter Reed. Like, I was like, "Why would they want to be around this?" You know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, but they, they did, and it w- it was like this kind of spontaneous kinds of love. And, and it, it, it just was like a shot, and it's just like, "I can come back. I can come back." I, I thought, it's like, "Well, why would they want this m- mess back?" Uh, and, and, and then, you know, just w- working through a lot of those things, and, and other kinds of techniques and, and things. It was like ... But that was probably the single most transformative event, where it's like I realized that I can come back to my life. Otherwise, it's like I thought I've lost everything. Would I be able to even do my job? And it's like, "Do I even have a career?" I mean, I'm talking about, uh, like, uh, that was a significant national, uh, story when after I signed myself in. And that pulled my kids in through that, I mean, this idea. And a- after we announced that we're signing in and there were news trucks outside their house. And, and they had the, they had the trauma of thinking that Dad could have lost after the stroke, and now he is ... it's just ... it's ... they, uh, it's put them through so much. And that's why I was convinced that they probably don't want me around. And then I made the, I made the (laughs) stupid mistake of I w- I, I went on social media and things. I'm like ... and just I read some of that shit. I mean, it's just, it's to- it just ... oh, my God. Millions and millions of views and videos, and it's just like, you know, going after my family and then saying that, you know, uh, you know, "Hey, he's a vegetable." He's, you know, he's a retard. And, uh, you know, sling, uh, sling blade (laughs) all kinds of things. And it wasn't ... it, it wasn't the individual kinds of insults. It was the volume, and just how widespread it, it was. And I'm like, "Who jumps online (laughs) to go after a, a, a stranger that's never really done anything to you personally?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I think it's not just individuals. I think it's targeted. I think there's, uh, a lot of that stuff, especially when there's something that is significant as a Senate seat. And I think there's-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, well, I mean, it, it's like if I have 100 ... if I have $100 million to convince you that you're a terrible person and you're the worst thing ever, and that, that, that inspires a lot of people, and they, "Hey, that's the mission." It's like he clearly ... he must be those things. And, you know, we're now ... there, there is no, there's no tap out. There, there is no tap out. It's like even after we won, after I won, in some sense, it actually accelerated.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, it's not ... the, the war's not over. It's just begun.
- JFJohn Fetterman
No. Oh, no, no. And the, the second, the second you step into that kind of arena on, on the federal level for, for like a, a Senate, uh, seat, if, if it's like a purple state like Pennsylvania, you know, I promise you there will be tens and tens of millions of dollars, and their mission is to turn you into the worst thing in the world. And whoever survives, that's the one that's gonna be in that seat. And I still will never understand why someone, uh, you know, independently wealthy kinds of people will spend, uh, you know, incredible amounts of money. And, and I try people. I'm like, "There's no glamour here." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Like, I like ... I'm in a 500 square foot apartment, and I'm like here with my phone. I'm like, "Hey, Grubhub, what's it tonight? Mm-hmm." And then it's like I'm like ... I watch, you know, TV on Netflix and things, and I, I ask, I ask, um, my colleagues, I'm like, "Hey, is there a kind of secret society, like, you know," (laughs) like, you know, "crazy parties or, you know, sitting around with ce- cigars and, you know." You know, (laughs) all this. And they're like, "Well, well, no," uh, I kind of have the same version of, of, of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the perception though, right? The perception is you get-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, the per- yeah, the per- yeah, the perception is we live-
- JRJoe Rogan
... invited into a club.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, the, the, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Now you control the world.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, that we all have witty-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JFJohn Fetterman
... kinds of dialogue on West Wing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JFJohn Fetterman
You know, like talking like, oh, this-
- JRJoe Rogan
Or-
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Yeah, I mean, it's,…
- JRJoe Rogan
things that these people all agree with, and you, you feed off that. But it's ... When it's being captured by d- it's not just these people exchanging ideas, it's also a bunch of people that are manipulating people's ideas. You know, I, I don't know if you've ever paid attention to like, uh, Rene Diresta's work with the, uh, Internet Research Agency. What, what, what they, uh, what they uncovered, what, what they were doing was using ... This was like during the 2016 election, using social media, and it was a lot of Russian troll farms and troll farms in other countries.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's po- possible, but, but, uh, but, but to be honest, I, I, uh ... Th- that election wasn't turned on, I think, Russian in- interference. I'm n-
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, I'm n- I, I ... What, what happened in 2016 was Trump, you know, he plugged into like kinds of a, uh, of an energy or, you know, like it was just like kinda looking, uh, to, to make that kind of a, of a connection there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he's a legitimate outsider. This is the appeal. The appeal is that people think that this system is completely rigged and i- it's captured by money and special interests and enormous corporations, and that here's a guy who's outside of this system-... completely. And the evidence of that-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... is how the system turned against him and how you got to see people on television every night talking about Russiagate, talking about how he's, uh, a puppet of Putin, talking about the Steele dossier, talking about all these different things that turned out to not be true. And it, it further cemented-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah, I never bought in- I never bought into some of that kind of a stuff. Because if anyone that's spent any time on the ground in one of those states, it's like it's very clear that wasn't because of some, some small kinds of, uh, uh, um, uh, tweets and things, like, uh, whatever. Uh, it, it's, it's, it's undeniable. And, and also, uh, r- remember, like, he was, uh, uh, y- you know, the Republican Party was like, "Hey, this is a joke." And I remember Jeb, Jeb Bush, you know? And he w- he had like $100 or $2-, $200 million and, and he just went by, h- he ticked them off, uh, and, and even then people thought he was gonna win, but, uh, he did. But, but remember though, overall though, that was 75,000 votes. That's a mathematical, like, uh, you know, f- I mean, think of that, 100, 160 million votes, 75,000 spread across three large states, including my own. That transformed, uh, American politics and then the world as well. And it just came down to 75,000 voters in those three states. And that's, that's kind of where, that's where we're at.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's, um, it's an extraordinary time in that regard, right? I mean, it's very-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, if I-
- JRJoe Rogan
... uncharted territory.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, I, I, I reference a, a movie m- if you, like, uh, Bulworth?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. I remember that movie.
- JFJohn Fetterman
B- B- Bulworth.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And, uh, you know, it was, uh, Warren B- Beaty and he was a, a senator. And he kind of had, like, a breakdown and he started saying provocative things. He used to get up in front of his audience and (laughs) and kind of like, uh, like the gaffe of, of accidentally speak- you know, telling the truth.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And, um, it was kind of like, uh, it was an absurd. I mean, uh, when I was in grad school that was, like, put up as, like, well, that c- I mean, people enjoyed that, and now that became a term in politics saying, "Oh, we..." Uh, in fact, even President Obama was like, "Hey, we all want to secretly go full Bulworth, full Bulworth."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And but, but that's what really he channeled in where he would say, uh, you know, it's kind of like he projects kind of like, "Well, I don't give a fuck" uh, and just say all those kinds of a thing. And, and people have responded to those kinds of things. And, and there, you know, s- a lot of people f- they... That's the, that's the bug, but you have to understand, th- that for enough people, that's the feature.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And, and that's kind of what they want. And, and whatever that is, it, it describes, um, uh, a brand that, you know, that... It's, it's not... I don't admire that, but you still have to kind of, uh, marvel at, at, at, at the level to say cr- crazy kinds of things that, that... It, it, you... I'm o- well, I guess maybe we're both old enough to remember when, uh, George... In the George Bush, uh, Al Gore, he's like, "Oh, oh God, this guy." And that moved the polls. People were like, he rolled his eyes at Bush, you know, like things. And like, you know, like it used to be much more staid, and now think of what's been said now-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JFJohn Fetterman
... and all of this stuff. And, and, uh, I don't think, uh, people aren't paying attention to some of the, uh, whatever the latest outrage is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's, um... I think one of the- your appeals is that you speak like a normal human being. You speak like a person who actually cares about these issues, and you seemingly speak from the heart. You don't seem polished, which is a good thing. And I think people-
- JFJohn Fetterman
No, I, I wish, I wish I was more handsome.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) It's... I don't think that's-
- JFJohn Fetterman
You know. Yeah, no. I, I, no.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't think that's good.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Oh, no, no. I, uh, no. It's... Like, I'm honest.
- 1:15:00 – 1:17:21
"We might have, we…
- JFJohn Fetterman
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"We might have, we might have cheated." (laughs)
- JFJohn Fetterman
Yeah. Yeah. No, we're not cheating. So that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, of course.
- JFJohn Fetterman
So I think that's, that's kind of ... That, that's, that's I think that's kind of the underlying, uh, tr- truth about that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JFJohn Fetterman
And, and of course, uh, you know, I, I think I was the, the first Democrat saying, "Hey, the, we need a secure border. We, you know, it's a significant issue." And if I thought there was any kinds of issues, and I've been very vigilant throughout, I've been actively involved in those kinds of things, and I've never witnessed those kinds of a thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
But what do you mean by issues? Like, what kind of issues are you talking about? You're talking about people letting people in in order to get votes?
- JFJohn Fetterman
Uh, well, uh, uh, it's not th- th- there's not that level kinds ... I don't think there's that level kinds of organization. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
But there is an organization that's moving these people to swing states. There's a significant number of these people that are illegal immigrants that have made their way to swing states, and then there's been calls for amnesty. There's been calls for allowing these people to have a pathway to citizenship and allow them to vote. The fear that a lot of people have is that this is a coordinated effort to take these people that you're allowing to come into the country, then you're providing them with all sorts of services like food stamps and housing and setting them up-
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, y-
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then providing a pathway to amnesty, and then you would have voters that would be significantly voting towards the Democrats because they're the people that enabled them to come into the country in the first pace- first place and provided them with those services. This is a big fear that people have, and that you're rigging this system, and that this will turn all these states into essentially locked blue like California is.
- JFJohn Fetterman
Well, I, I, I, you know, it's well, i- i- immigration is always gonna be a, a, a tough issue f- in our nation. You know, I, I had, uh, as a professor, uh, in grad school, uh, Alan Simpson, Alan Simpson, and he, uh, was, uh, he was a United States Senator. He was Wyoming, uh, and he was, he was, uh, he was actually a pro-ch- uh, choice Republican. I mean, how rare that would be. Well, it doesn't exist now. And he said, "You are never going to have any meaningful immigration kinds of legislation." He's like, "Because both side, th- that's useful for them, and it's gonna be back and forth, back and forth." And he said that 25 years ago.
Episode duration: 2:07:30
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