Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #2231 - Jimmy Corsetti & Dan Richards

This episode is brought to you by AG1.Take ownership of your health with AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 AND 5 free Travel Packs with your first subscription. Go to http://drinkag1.com/joerogan Jimmy Corsetti and Dan Richards are independent researchers whose YouTube channels, "Bright Insight" and "DeDunking the Past," respectively, examine lost civilizations and alternative history. https://www.youtube.com/c/BrightInsight https://www.youtube.com/@UCodgvia5IT5wiV0II9swBLw

Jimmy CorsettiguestJoe RoganhostDan Richardsguest
Nov 20, 20243h 10mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:01

    Welcome and why Flint Dibble’s claims matter

    1. NA

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. JC

      The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

    3. JR

      Gentlemen.

    4. DR

      Hello.

    5. JR

      Mr. Corsetti. How are you, sir? Very nice to meet you, by the way.

    6. DR

      Nice to meet you too, Joe. Thanks for-

    7. JR

      Thank you very much for that video. We talked about it before, but I wanna say it publicly. The d- debunking of the debunking by, uh, Flint Dibble. You, you really nailed him on so many of those things that he was dishonest about, and it just ... I wish we knew in real time, but unfortunately, you know, it's, uh, takes a lot of research to be able to figure out what he was telling the truth about and what he wasn't.

    8. DR

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      And, you know.

    10. DR

      Got it. Tha- uh, oh, thank you. That, uh, I was, uh-

    11. JR

      Tell everybody your site too. Your YouTube site.

    12. DR

      Oh, uh, dedunking, uh, dedunkingthepast as my email. Dedunking on YouTube or on Twitter. Um, that's with two Ds like my ex. Um-

    13. JR

      (laughs)

    14. DR

      Not, not debunking, sorry. (laughs)

    15. JR

      Keep this, try to-

    16. JC

      D-

    17. DR

      Oh, sorry.

    18. JR

      ... keep this. It's okay.

    19. JC

      I'm sorry, dedunking, not debunking.

    20. DR

      Yes.

    21. JC

      Dan Richards.

    22. DR

      Dedunking. Dan Richards. Thank you.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

  2. 1:01 – 3:08

    Seeds, domestication, and the ‘rewilding’ argument Flint got wrong

    1. DR

      Um, yeah, the, the thing with, with Flint, it was actually funny, the, the sci- the moment that I knew that he was lying about the science was when you asked him about the fertilization of plants. That's where they roll back into being-

    2. JR

      Yes.

    3. DR

      ... no longer domesticated. And he was like, "Oh, it'll just take thousands of years." It's like, no, no, no, no. I've researched this and I know better. And he was just knee jerking, straight answer, "Oh, just thousands of years." And when you pressed him, he's like, "Well, I don't know for sure."

    4. JR

      Well, that's a bummer because that's his field of study, which is really kinda crazy. And it's a really fascinating thing that seeds do adapt to, uh, agriculture. They adapt to the fact that they ... It's better for the survival of the plant if one ... You develop agriculture, if they're more robust and they stay on the plant, it's better for the wild if they break off easy and they can scatter better and they can, you know, proliferate.

    5. DR

      Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's really basic, if you think about it. I mean, if it stays on the plant after-

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. DR

      ... after it's ripe, it's just sitting there waiting for the first thing to come along and eat it.

    8. JR

      But that whole natural selection thing when it comes to plants is so fascinating. But the question was so simple. If you stopped having agriculture and these plants just grew wild, would they go back to the same characteristics of wild plants? And he was like, "No, there's no evidence of that." But then I saw your video and then I looked at some other stuff, and there's quite a bit of evidence of this, particularly with wild rice, right?

    9. DR

      Yes, particularly with wild rice, yes. There's ... That one, it looks like out of any of them, if there's a possibility that one was, uh, domesticated and then went back to the wild and then was domesticated again, it would be rice. That shows multiple types. There's different ways the seeds can break off, right? They can break in different points of the plant or they can just fall straight out and, uh, rice shows numerous paths there. Where wheat only has one genetic pathway to that seed shatter, where the seed falls off.

    10. JR

      Mm.

    11. DR

      So it's, um ... It gets pretty complicated. But, uh, rice does, rice does have a lot of genetic possibilities for that. Now, I'm not a geneticist, so I'm sure that somebody's gonna come and, you know-

    12. JR

      Sure.

    13. DR

      ... say that it's all crap. But, uh, ultimately, at the end of the day, Flint was treating it as a debate, whereas you and Graham were both trying to sift to the truth.

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. DR

      And that's why he was not gonna give Graham one little corner or one little shred of possibility of being right anywhere, when in reality, it, it's a lot of ... It's just like everything else in life, it's a lot of gray.

  3. 3:08 – 8:33

    Baalbek’s Trilithon: the ‘lost capability’ problem in megalithic construction

    1. JR

      Well, it's also this whole subject of the past is ... It's so obviously confusing, because when you look at ... I watched your, your video today, the Baalbeck video.

    2. DR

      Mm.

    3. JR

      Just looking at the enormous size of those stones, there's no reasonable explanation how people ... Like, what i- what is that dated to? Like, what, what year do they believe it was made?

    4. JC

      Well, this is where it gets fun, is because they credit it to the Romans and the Phoenicians. However, there's ... It goes beyond the sophistication and the capabilities of what the Romans were known to have, whether it's the existence of the screw jack for lifting the stones. But Baalbeck, which is located in Lebanon, and I had the great privilege of going there in September of last year, exactly one month before things kicked off in Israel, uh, with the whole Hamas thing. And if I hadn't got there then, I wouldn't have no chance. Like, right now, Israel's bombing Lebanon, and so it's a dangerous place. But Baalbeck, if there was one example, one ancient site on Earth that is evidence of a lost ancient advanced civilization. And by advanced, I'm not talking about space lasers here. I'm talking about more sophisticated than what we were taught in school for the known capabilities. And Baalbeck has the largest stones that were ever quarried in human history, the largest stones that were lifted, stacked, and transported in human history, and the largest stone columns in all of classical history. And we're talking th- so the Trilithon Stones, three stones, 900 tons apiece or 800 metric tons, and they were moved a half a mile from the quarry. They were lifted and stacked approximately 30 feet off the ground. And when I say stacked, they were perfectly lined up. And Jamie, it's in my folder of Baalbeck, if you wanna show some of these. Um, and they're absolutely massive. So, let me tell you right here, and I of course have, uh, the gentleman there, who I'll tell you about later, highlighted just to kind of show you for perspective. Like, that's someone right there that's five foot 11. Those stones that are highlighted in red are the Trilithon Stones, but these pictures do not do it justice because it's taken through an ultra-wide camera lens. From the top to bottom of the red highlighted stones is 14 feet, and they're 62 feet long. Or 62 feet, excuse me. Like, it ... Th- there's me. (laughs) And-

    5. JR

      That's so cra- it's, it's hard to tell because of the perspective and people need to kind of understand how a wide-angle lens sort of distorts things-

    6. JC

      Yes.

    7. JR

      ... by showing you this enormous, uh, field of view. But f- when you're looking at something that's 14 feet long and 60 ... Excuse me, 60, 62 feet long and 14 feet high, like, what is the weight of that? What's the overall weight?

    8. JC

      900 imperial tons or 800 metric tons. And to anyone listening, a metric ton is 2,200 pounds, 1,000 kilograms, and an imperial ton is 2,000 pounds. So, that's 1.7 million pounds, each of them. And there's three of them. And if you were to go to the quarry, there's ones that are 1,200 tons and even 1,500 tons that are 20 feet tall. Um, this is mind-boggling. Like, Jamie, if you wanna just scroll through some of the other photos to kind of give Joe the perspective and the audience th- the perspective. Um, those-

    9. JR

      And these are clearly cut stones that were moved into place and moved 23 feet above the ground.

    10. JC

      Right.Um, and technically 30 feet because there's stones that are actually below the ground there that you can't see 'cause it's submerged under the earth. So, technically it was 30 feet, but 23 off, 23 feet off the ground today. And right there, this highlights... So, not only is that 14 feet from top to bottom, which you would never realize when you're looking at this, um, and these are confirmed measurements by the way. This is right out of encyclopedias. But notice how they're completely flush.

    11. DR

      Yeah.

    12. JC

      Nice and even with each other. And the... This exceeds the known capabilities of what the Romans had. And it's worth mentioning that this site is some 2,400 miles from Rome, the capital. And if they're gonna say that this was created by the Romans, one, people need to understand that the Romans were renowned for documenting everything. Yet, this site is not credited to anybody. They don't know exactly who did it or when.

    13. DR

      (laughs)

    14. JC

      But ye- the academics eclu- uh, conclude that it had to have been the Romans or the Phoenicians because, of course, there was no one before them. And with this photo right here, let me say something else. There is evidence of at least two, but arguably three different architectures that were done at this site. And I would conclude that this is evidence that this site existed in prehistoric times. There's also, I can show you encyclopedias that talk about Baalbek being prehistoric in nature, dating back 11,000 years of human history. And what I argue is that it was built up... It was found by the Romans and the Phoenicians and built upon later. And right here is evidence for all that have eyes to see. Look how they obviously used broken stones and constructed on top of it. Why would you go from making the most advanced stones in history that far exceed anything you see in Rome? For example, if you were to go to the Colosseum, as magnificent as that is, it is a architecture of mathematics and just brilliance. Um-

    15. DR

      (laughs) .

    16. JC

      But this right here, why would they use the... Why would they, for all the feats of Roman history, why would they have the most, uh, impressive feats over 2,000 miles away from the capital? In fact, let me just say this. When I'm talking about 900-ton stones, the largest stone in all of Rome is 53 tons. It's the Trajan's, uh, capital block that make up the Trajan's Column. 53 tons. This is 15 times heavier.

    17. DR

      (sighs) There's a number of things, too. Um, now, I'm not a huge believer in ancient technology-

    18. JR

      Y-

    19. JC

      Oh, sorry.

  4. 8:33 – 9:47

    Sponsor break (AG1)

    1. JR

      I know you've heard me talk about AG1. It's an awesome way to improve your whole body health and just feel better in general. But today, I have a new special offer for you. If you try AG1, you also get a free month supply of AG's omega-3 supplement. These once-a-day capsules have high-quality omega-3 fatty acids to take with your AG1, just that easy. Over 80% of people are not consuming the right amount of omega-3s in their diet and AG's capsules ensure that you'll get the essential fatty acids you need. These nutrients provide additional support for brain and cardiovascular health when taken together with AG1. And if you've ever taken fish oil before, you know that taste. Well, don't worry, AG's encapsulated fish oil actually has a nice lemon taste. Not bad at all. If you're looking for a simple and effective investment in your health, try AG1. And if you've been thinking about it, try it now. This November, you'll receive a one-month supply of AG omega-3 when you first subscribe, in addition to the welcome kit with five AG1 travel packs and a bottle of vitamin D3+K2. So, make sure you check out drinkag1.com/joerogan to claim this special offer. That's drinkag1.com/joerogan.

  5. 9:47 – 13:10

    Romans vs. earlier builders: measurement units, site layout, and ‘they tried and quit’

    1. DR

      No worries. I'm not a big believer in ancient technology, as Jimmy's well aware, but, uh...

    2. JC

      Which is why it's important that you're here, 'cause people are gonna hear multiple perspectives.

    3. DR

      Yeah, that's where, um, I can tell you some things about, uh, Baalbek that are still interesting to me. One of them is you don't see the Roman foot in those stones, which is weird. You would expect to see some sort of breakdown of the Roman foot in these measurements, but they're not there at Baalbek. They are there on the stones that were quarried from the ground.

    4. JR

      By Roman foot, what you're saying is that there's a different measurement, what they considered a foot.

    5. DR

      Yes.

    6. JR

      It's not 12 inches.

    7. DR

      Correct. There's a, a Roman unit of measurement that they would use in construction. And it see, we don't see it in those stones in the trilithon, in... But there's three stones that were quarried and left in the ground. All those stones show signs of, uh, using the Roman foot.

    8. JC

      Yeah. Jamie, will you scroll over to the...

    9. DR

      So, that right off the bat shows to me that the ones that were installed were not built by the Romans, but the ones that were quarried were made by the Romans. They were trying to quarry out, uh, stones to, to match it.

    10. JC

      Right here.

    11. DR

      Um, another thing is-

    12. JR

      That's crazy. Yeah.

    13. DR

      ... Roman architecture always uses the most impressive things right in the front. You walk in the front of the thing and that's where you're gonna see the biggest stones, the most impressive- well, for obvious reasons. These are in the back, completely on the opposite end of the entrances. You have to, like, from what you told me, you had kind of to look for them if you don't know where they're at, right? Like, you can't just show up on the site and they say, "Here's the trilithon."

    14. JC

      Well, let me tell you a quick story real quick. So, I had the pleasure of going there with some people, and I'll tell you about it later. I won't do the name drop just yet. Um, but Dory, who lives in Lebanon, he toured us around and he had been to the site three times before. When we went, it was his fourth time. He did not know of the existence of the trilithon stones. They're around back. You gotta walk probably a third of a mile to get there. They don't even bring the tours around to the trilithon stones. He had no idea what I was talking about. The night before at dinner, I'm trying to explain to him, like, "The trilithon stones. The 900-ton stones." And I had to show him a picture. He had never seen them before.

    15. JR

      How, wh- how do they not show the tourists this?

    16. JC

      That's an excellent question. Um, it... Now, you do have to walk-

    17. JR

      It seems-

    18. JC

      To be honest, it's like a 12, 15-minute walk, uh, to go around to get there. I mean, it's part of the platform, but you have to go all the way around and some people just don't feel like making the walk. And when we were there, we were totally alone for a half hour with these stones. Not a single person.

    19. DR

      (laughs) .

    20. JC

      There was hundreds of people at the site. Not a single one of them came around back. Now, just to clarify what the audience is seeing right now. This is at the quarry, which is a half mile away. This is where all the stones originate from, and this one right here is what's called the Stone of the Pregnant Woman. It is 1,200 tons. As you can see, it's 14 feet tall, which is the same height. So, in those trilithon stones I was showing you a moment ago-This, the only difference is that this one's 68 feet long. It's virtually the same size except for just a few feet shorter, but it's the same height. So that gentleman right there, Pierre, who's a wonderful man, is six foot tall. And look at him just dwarfed-

    21. NA

      (laughs)

    22. JC

      ... by this stone.

    23. NA

      1,200 tons.

    24. JR

      Insane.

    25. JC

      Right.

    26. JR

      And it, it's not from there.

    27. JC

      Well, no, th- it is. This was quar- so this is-

    28. JR

      This is-

    29. JC

      ... at the quarry.

    30. JR

      So the, the, uh, so this one's at the quarry and, but the ones that were placed, where are they from?

  6. 13:10 – 26:53

    Modern stone-moving comparisons: LACMA rock, Thunderstone, cranes, and metallurgy limits

    1. JC

      And let me just tell you this. This is something, Jamie, if you scroll over a few, to the articles involving... 'Cause this is what the audience needs to understand. A lot of people hear these numbers and they don't wrap their head around exactly how important this is, which is that the l- uh, go to the article involving the Los Angeles County Museum of Art.

    2. JR

      Okay.

    3. JC

      It's in the same folder of Baalbeck. And the largest stone moved in modern times is 340 tons. Um, and we're gonna come back to all these photos too, because it's extremely important. Uh, there's some details in here.

    4. JR

      That's the one at that goofy museum in LA?

    5. JC

      Yes. Um-

    6. JR

      Which is, by the way, a very goofy museum.

    7. JC

      Yeah? I haven't been there.

    8. JR

      It's so dumb. It's so dumb. It's, there's a, an acrylic box that's on the ground-

    9. JC

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      ... that you're supposed to interpret as art. It's just a box that's just sitting there. It's one of those places where you go there and you go, "What is my tax dollars going to?"

    11. JC

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      You motherfuckers.

    13. NA

      (laughs)

    14. JC

      Go to the other folder that's moving stones. So let me just... While he's looking for that, let me explain to you. So-

    15. JR

      I saw the video on that and so what this is, is there was a suspended stone.

    16. JC

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      It's an enormous stone that they placed there as part of their art piece.

    18. JC

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      And this thing was-

    20. JC

      Not that one.

    21. JR

      Not that one.

    22. JC

      Not that, Jamie. Go-

    23. JR

      This is just failed.

    24. JC

      That's, that's a... Yeah. We'll, we'll play that video in a little bit. It's pretty funny. Um-

    25. JR

      They had to move this stone. It was four miles an hour is the fastest they can move it. They had to build a structure around the stone to move it.

    26. JC

      Yes. So-

    27. JR

      And this fucking insanely huge truck...

    28. JC

      Let me tell you. So the details, it is a 200 and s- so they had to custom build a trailer truck around the stone itself.

    29. JR

      Tell Jamie what file it is.

    30. NA

      I don't-

  7. 26:53 – 34:45

    Baalbek’s deeper context: ancient habitation claims, Egyptian columns, and ‘why build it there?’

    1. JR

      D- you were saying something about dating it to 11,000 years.

    2. JC

      There is ... So, i- Jamie, if you go to the Baalbeck folder, uh, you'll find an encyclopedia article that describes the evidence of human habitation at Baalbeck dating back 9,000 BC, which is 11,000 years ago. And, uh, I'm not suggesting these stones were created back then. I'm open to it.

    3. JR

      What is the evidence? Like, what kind of evidence? Pottery? What is it?

    4. JC

      Oh, I ... Sure. I'd have to go read the, through the scientific article, but it's-

    5. JR

      Right.

    6. JC

      ... humans were there 11,000 years ago.

    7. JR

      Yes.

    8. DR

      Right.

    9. JC

      Um-

    10. JR

      Okay.

    11. JC

      ... and the fact that they don't document ... When the r- when the Romans were ... Yeah, see? Right there.

    12. JR

      Here it is, Baalbeck is-

    13. JC

      And there's another ar-

    14. JR

      ... history that dates back at least 11,000 years, encompassing significant periods, such as prehistoric, Canaanite, H- Hellenistic, and Roman eras. After Alexander the Great conquered the city in th- 334 BCE, he renamed it Heliopolis. Helio-polis?

    15. JC

      Heliopolis.

    16. JR

      Heliopolis. Um, Greek for Sun City. The city flourished under Roman rule. It, um-

    17. JC

      Now, let me say this real quick. Jamie, will you go to the picture of the, the mountains in this folder? So, the l- this is something that's unbeliev- all right. So, just scroll through all these photos of the mountains, because here's something that people need to understand that is unbelievably significant, which is that all b- at Baalbeck, there are approximately 200 rose granite columns that were transported from the Aswan Quarry in Egypt, which is 700 miles as the bird flies. And what's wild is that the only way to get them to Baalbeck, because the ... Baalbeck is located in the middle of the Lebanon Mountains, and it has an average elevation of 8,000 feet with peaks reaching over 10,000 feet. As you can see, there's a fricking ski resort there, which I couldn't believe when I was driving there. There was literally the ski lifts. I went there in September, so ... They had to bring all of those multi-ton s- uh, s- columns, stone columns from Egypt, and the only way to get there was over these mountains, which is mind-blowing.

    18. JR

      And what you're saying by o- b- how, how the crow flies, as the crow flies, what people n- need to understand is that doesn't take into account elevation changes.

    19. JC

      Right.

    20. JR

      So, if you're, if you have a flat line like a bird and you're flying from one point to another, that's 700 miles. But if you have to go up and down and up and down and up and down, it would significantly larger-

    21. DR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. JC

      And when- why-

    23. JR

      ... the measurement. It's not 700 miles. It's probably double that.

    24. JC

      Right. That's an excellent point. Um, and it's like, then the question is like, why would they do this? Like, why would they-

    25. JR

      Right. How?

    26. JC

      ... go out of their ... Right?

    27. JR

      How?

    28. JC

      How and why?

    29. JR

      How ... Why is like, it's cool.

    30. DR

      But how is the qu- yeah.

  8. 34:45 – 40:34

    Academic gatekeeping and Wikipedia battles: John Hoopes and ‘pseudoarchaeology’ labeling

    1. DR

      It's not just Flint. It's that fucking John Hoopes, man. The, he's the one that started that shit. He's, he's, uh, that guy (laughs) , Wikipedia. Yeah, we can talk about that for a quick second. John Hoopes is a professor for the university, for Kansas University, and he is been on, been one of the earliest editors of Wikipedia consistently. Graham Hancock's page, Younger Dryas impact hypothesis page, all kinds of, uh, pseudoarchaeology and, and all, pyramids in Atlantis, all that shit. He's got it locked. He, he, it's not just that he edits it. Him and his buddies edit it, and you can't go in and edit it. There's a scientist from the Comet Research Group that tried to edit the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis page and was told he can't because it's a conflict of interest. A fucking scientist that works on this shit's a conflict of interest, but a scientist from outside the field isn't? Yeah.

    2. JC

      By the way, John Hoopes studied at Harvard and Yale. He got his undergrad I believe from Harvard and his PhD from Yale, or vice versa. This is, this is significant, because he's controlling the information. Um-

    3. DR

      And he, he hides this stuff too. If he, he'll tell you that y- he'll, he'll tell... I watched him tell Forbes, "Hey, you, you guys need to cite Wikipedia instead of just..." 'Cause they said the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis and they just made a real quick article about it-

    4. JC

      Mm-hmm.

    5. DR

      ... with no skepticism. He says, "You need to cite Wikipedia as well." He edits the Wikipedia page and doesn't mention that he edits it when he tells people to go look at the fucking thing.

    6. JC

      What's h- what's his motivation for-

    7. DR

      He hates-

    8. JC

      ... debunking this stuff?

    9. DR

      He doesn't like Graham Hancock. He doesn't, he think, he, same kind of thing. He thinks pseudoarchaeology is all the isms. He's, if you believe in ancient high technology or you believe in Atlantis, you must be a white supremacist, a racist, a misogynistic con. (laughs) Okay, but let's forget about Atlantis for a minute, but I definitely wanna talk about it.

    10. JC

      Yeah.

    11. DR

      But the, what you're seeing is impossible-

    12. JR

      ... it's essentially impossible with today's technology. When you're talking about those stones that were moved 700 miles through the mountains, if you tried to bring some engineers together in the United States in 2024, the best and the brightest, and said, "Here's your project," they would say, "Fuck you." (laughs)

    13. JC

      Yeah. You'd-

    14. DR

      (laughs)

    15. JC

      You'd need Elon Musk levels of money to throw at them.

    16. JR

      You can't do it. Yeah. You-

    17. DR

      Right.

    18. JR

      You would need super billionaire mon- money. And even then, I don't know how you would do it. I, I just don't... I can't conceivably think of a way. And that's what's so interesting about this stuff, is that whatever they did was not just complicated for the time, it was so beyond our imagination of what was possible at the time, that it's beyond our imagination of what's possible today.

    19. DR

      Right.

    20. JR

      So, it just... It throws this- f- these facts, the physical facts about the size and the location they were brought from, that fly in the face of logic and credibility and our understanding of what's possible. Not just then, but today. So for anybody to say, "Oh, we've figured this out." Hey man, fuck you.

    21. DR

      (laughs)

    22. JC

      (laughs) Again.

    23. JR

      You definitely haven't, and the problem is that you have these fucking names attached to you, f- Harvard and Yale, and you've decided, because there's a group of people that have been studying this stuff and they fucking wrote some shit down, and you studied what they wrote down, you did your own studying, you got a degree. You're the guy.

    24. JC

      Mm-hmm.

    25. JR

      You're the only one. And it's these same fucking weirdo weasels that put their pronouns in their Twitter bio-

    26. JC

      (laughs)

    27. DR

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      ... and they're just crackpots. They're crackpots masquerading as intellectuals.

    29. DR

      Yes.

    30. JR

      Because the things that they're saying are completely bizarre. They're all, 100% of them are captured by this woke ideology.

  9. 40:34 – 51:33

    Swastikas before Hitler: ancient symbol diffusion and Nazi ‘occult archaeology’ questions

    1. JC

      ... there... Nowadays, there's a lot of conjecture about the historical accuracy of different things involving World War II. And Jamie, if you were to go to the Baalbeck folder, or in fact, go to the folder called Swastika. So this is something that I got tremendous heat for, whereas that when I went to Baalbeck, I noticed that there were swastikas all over the place.

    2. JR

      Hmm.

    3. JC

      And I'm like, "Well that's interesting." Um, let me-

    4. JR

      That's an ancient symbol, Joe.

    5. DR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JC

      The- the... What a lot of people are not aware of is that the swastika is prehistoric. It's found on five continents around the world and dates back approximately 10,000 years. It is found in Europe, Africa, Asia, North and South America, all before transoceanic sea travel was thought to be possible. If you scroll through the images, Jamie, you'll kind of give the audience an understanding. Now let me- let me preface this whole conversation with this. Fuck Hitler. (laughs)

    7. DR

      (laughs)

    8. JC

      Right? Like he-

    9. JR

      Right, of course. Of course.

    10. JC

      He-

    11. DR

      Fuck Nazis.

    12. JR

      God, keep talking.

    13. JC

      He- right? He stole the symbol, which was a symbol of peace-

    14. DR

      Yes.

    15. JC

      ... and he bastardized it. So this right here, I took this photo. You'd almost think it's photoshopped in. This is liter- this is a photo. This is real. And I'm like, "Well this is fascinating." I put this up on Twitter and I said, "Did, uh, Hitler know something about ancient history that we don't?" And the reason why... And this was a sincere question. Everyone started calling me a Nazi, I was spreading dangerous Nazism for it. Um, no. This is a grownup conversation.

    16. DR

      Right.

    17. JC

      Hitler was a very intell-... He was evil but he was intelligent, and the Nazis were arguably the most technologically advanced country at that time in World War II. The jet engine, rockets. And for some reason, for reasons that I cannot find a definitive answer on, is why was Hitler so into archeology? They call it Nazi archeology. And the- the mainstream people will say, "Oh, well it's... He weaponized... He was trying to get this Aryan thing going to unite people and just create an enemy."

    18. DR

      They'll kick it to Himmler a lot. They'll say that Himmler was the one that was really into that shit, but-

    19. JC

      Yeah. And so that's, by the way, th- that's Peru.... like, 800 years ago. Um, you'll find the Native Americans, the Pima Indians, the Navajo, the Apache, um, the Yavapai-

    20. JR

      There's actually, um, a Hindu temple in Los Angeles that was, uh, near my old house.

    21. JC

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      And we went to visit it. You could actually have weddings there. And they had to have a sign up explaining why there were so many swastikas on the building.

    23. JC

      (laughs) I went to-

    24. JR

      There's swastikas all over it.

    25. JC

      I went to Japan, and it's the same thing there.

    26. JR

      Yeah. Well-

    27. JC

      They have swastikas on different shrines.

    28. JR

      Okinawan karate, when I was a kid, Okinawan karate, one of their patches was a swastika.

    29. JC

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      And this was when I was a kid. So this is in the '80s-

  10. 51:33 – 55:39

    How discourse gets policed: WWII narratives, embargo effects, and ‘coloring outside the lines’

    1. JR

      But the, it's the, the Nazi thing, the, the fact that it's so horrific, it just, like, puts any- anyone who has anything to say that's coloring outside the lines, you get labeled a Holocaust denier-

    2. JC

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      ... an anti-Semite. You know, the, the worst labels-

    4. JC

      Oh, yeah.

    5. JR

      ... that they can put on you. And a good example of that is, um, the, that podcast... Oh, God, I forget his name. Um, but it was the Tucker Carlson controversy where he had this guy on his podcast, and he was talking about, um, what William Churchill's role in the Holocaust was, 'cause they had put these embargoes on Germany and they... basically starving everybody to death. And they just started calling him a Holocaust denier, and that's like, not what he was talking about at all. That's not what he was saying at all.

    6. JC

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      He was just saying, no, there's a, there's a multifaceted explanation for why they decided to exterminate all these Jews. And part of it was because of an embargo.

    8. JC

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      Where they were starving people out. What is his-

    10. DR

      Daryl Cooper?

    11. JR

      Daryl Cooper. And what is his podcast called? It's excellent. I listen to it all the time, but my brain's not working right now. I just got out of the gym.

    12. JC

      (laughs)

    13. DR

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      I'm on meathead mode.

    15. JC

      It's something him... I know what you're talking about.

    16. DR

      (laughs)

    17. JC

      I, I can't put... I've drawn a blank on it as well.

    18. DR

      Martyrmade?

    19. JR

      Martyrmade, that's right. Martyrmade. He's martyrmade on Twitter and Instagram. And, you know, to call that guy an anti-Semite or a Holocaust denier is so stupid. He's a brilliant guy and, uh, his podcast is excellent. And he's really sensitive and well-balanced, and he gives a very comprehensive view of things. It, it's not, in any way, like, eh, prejudiced. It's a great podcast.

    20. DR

      But you're not allowed to color outside the lines, is what you're saying?

    21. JR

      Well, yeah, that's all he's... He, he was just saying that Churchill was one of the villains.

    22. DR

      Yeah. And that's very... That's, that's realistic. Like, there are multiple different reasons for that. You, you tighten up their belt, they're gonna... That's not gonna be passed to the top, that's gonna go straight to the people in the camps.

    23. JR

      Exactly.

    24. DR

      That's, it's real... That's... And that's no-brainer shit, right?

    25. JR

      Right, and that's not justifying the murder-

    26. DR

      And that's not justifying the murder of all those Jews. That's not what he's doing. Clearly.

    27. JR

      And that's, that's where it's so crazy about stifling discourse.

    28. JC

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      'Cause he's-

    30. DR

      It's-

  11. 55:39 – 1:07:18

    Authority, ego, and institutions: martial arts as a model for archaeology’s ‘closed schools’

    1. JR

      It's also this position that people have when they're teachers, when they're educators.

    2. DR

      Ugh.

    3. JR

      And they have this position, you know? And I can speak to it a little bit for martial arts. Because in martial arts, uh, when, when I first started doing martial arts, it was in the 1980s. In the 1980s, every...... discipline, believed they had the very best discipline. All the judo people thought judo was the only martial art you needed to know. All the karate people thought karate was it. Taekwondo people, where I came from, they all believed in taekwondo. And it took-

    4. DR

      UFC.

    5. JR

      ... the UFC to slam everything together and go, "Oh, Jesus." (laughs)

    6. JC

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      "Half of this stuff is fucking useless."

    8. DR

      Yep.

    9. JR

      And, you know, some of it's not useless, right? There were some things from like- Jon Jones won the UFC heavyweight title this past weekend with a taekwondo kick.

    10. JC

      It was amazing.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. JC

      That was unbelievable.

    13. JR

      And I was so happy because that was my thing. So me watching him do that was like, "Yes, why aren't more people doing this?" Like, you guys should have been doing this from the beginning. It's the most powerful kick in the sport. But the- this- the- you were in trouble if you trained in other disciplines. Like Bruce Lee was a heretic.

    14. DR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      And he's probably one of the most important figures in martial arts, not just because he induced- introduced people to it like myself, who became martial artists because I was a Bruce Lee fan. He also combined all kinds of different martial arts, and that was Jeet Kune Do.

    16. DR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      He developed a style that was essentially, he took Western boxing, he took some judo that he learned and karate, and all these different techniques and just tried to find what is the absolute best thing for just fighting.

    18. JC

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      And that was- he was a heretic, like he was- his life was threatened for that.

    20. DR

      Yeah.

    21. JC

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      And it's because the educators want to be the only people that can distribute information, and they don't want to be challenged. When I was in high school, I had a teacher who's- his name was Mr. Holman. He was a very nice guy, but he was a smart guy that wanted to be the only smart guy.

    23. JC

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JR

      And he was great talking to me because I was a stupid kid.

    25. DR

      (laughs)

    26. JR

      But unfortunately, one day, I had watched a documentary, and I have- I've always had a very good ability to recall things. And we were- we were in class and he was talking about the pollution in Lake Erie. And I had just watched a documentary about the extensive work that they had done to clean up Lake Erie, and that they'd made these huge strides in removing pollution and crap and all these different things from Lake Erie. And he was talking about stuff that he had learned in school 20 years prior. And so when I was- I said, "Well, you know, there's a PBS documentary," and I brought this up in class, where there's been this extensive work and they talked about the amazing accomplishments of cleaning up Lake Erie. And he got so mad at me.

    27. DR

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      I'm like, "You're not mad at me, man. You're mad at PBS."

    29. DR

      (laughs)

    30. JR

      Like I don't fucking do any research. I watched a documentary. But back then, you could say, "You don't know what you're talking about," and I couldn't pull my phone out and go, "Oh, for- but look. Look at that." (laughs)

  12. 1:07:18 – 1:14:26

    Göbekli Tepe: the timeline shock that forced archaeology to adapt

    1. JR

      Well, we wanted to talk about Gobekli Tepe.

    2. NA

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      And Gobekli Tepe is not just fascinating in its construction, but also in the timeline, 'cause the timeline fucked everything up.

    4. NA

      Oh, yes.

    5. JR

      I remember when Graham Hancock and Zawahri Hawass were having that big debate with that other guy who's an archeologist, the American guy who's very smug. He was like, "What evidence do you have of a civilization that lived 10,000 years ago?"

    6. NA

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      Well, you have one now.

    8. DR

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      So, you have to shut the fuck up 'cause you were wrong. So, in the 1990s-

    10. DR

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... a sheep herder finds this stone. He starts kicking it and moving it around-

    12. DR

      Yep.

    13. JR

      ... and he realizes, "Wow, this is a big ass stone. I should probably bring in some smart dudes to figure this out," and they start digging, and they go, "Oh, Jesus." This is these huge circles of giant stone columns with 3D carved animals on them at a time that we thought people were living in teepees, right?

    14. DR

      Right.

    15. JR

      We thought people had stone tools. We didn't think there was any metal.

    16. DR

      We thought it had to be done the opposite way around. We thought you needed to be a hunter-gatherer, or a farmer-

    17. JR

      Yes.

    18. DR

      ... and then you could build.

    19. JR

      Yes.

    20. DR

      And now they had to flip that entire shit on its ear. "Well, actually, maybe..." (laughs)

Episode duration: 3:10:01

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode SbW6FTU69bw

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome