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Joe Rogan Experience #2240 - Roger Avary & Quentin Tarantino

This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Get 50% off your first box by heading to http://thefarmersdog.com/rogan today! Quentin Tarantino is an Academy Award-winning writer, producer, and director known for films such as "Pulp Fiction" and "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood." Roger Avary is an Academy Award-winning director, screenwriter, and producer known for "The Rules of Attraction" and his collaboration with Tarantino on "Pulp Fiction." Together, they host the second season of their podcast, "The Video Archives," available now. www.patreon.com/videoarchives

Joe RoganhostRoger AvaryguestQuentin Tarantinoguest
Dec 10, 20243h 19mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:30

    Operators, surveillance, and “untraceable” killing methods

    1. NA

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. NA

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

    4. JR

      All right, here we go. We're rolling. So you were- you were saying that someone was telling you how to kill someone with coffee?

    5. RA

      Okay, so I got to know all these, uh, you were talking about, uh, some-

    6. JR

      His name's John McFee.

    7. RA

      ... yeah, some operators.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. RA

      And, uh, I got to know through a friend, through a billionaire friend who, uh, loaned his plane to the, to Clinton to fly those people out of, uh, I think North Korea. And so from that point on, he was surrounded by these guys. And, uh, one of 'em, uh, this guy Mikey, uh, which isn't his real name. Um, I think he's actually named, they name 'em all after the archangels. So he was, like, Michael, another guy Gabriel.

    10. JR

      Oh, Jesus.

    11. RA

      And like-

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. RA

      ... they take on these-

    14. NA

      (laughs)

    15. RA

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      There's nothing creeper than an assassin with Biblical names.

    17. NA

      Named after an archangel.

    18. RA

      Yeah. And well, you know. And so, um, he, uh, um, you know, we got to know each other because of our mutual friend, and, uh, I think what happened was, uh, um, he and a couple of the other guys, you know, they were placed on me as, like, for surveillance purposes, like, you know, find out what this Avery guy is about maybe.

    19. JR

      Right.

    20. RA

      Or just keep an eye on him or whatever. And they told me right up front, like, "Be nice to your surveillance." You know, like, "Don't try to lose us or anything like that."

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. RA

      'Cause, uh, you know, I heard stories about how, you know, they're surveilling somebody in wherever, Bolivia, and suddenly some gang attacks their surveillance and they step in, kick the shit out of the gang. And so, um, so I got to know these guys, and naturally, you know, I'm a writer and a filmmaker, and so I of course want to talk to them about stuff, and they immediately started volunteering, "Oh yeah, we've learned all these different ways when I became an operator," blah, blah, blah. "I learned how to kill people without... And I was just making a list now of the 10 ways to kill someone without leaving a trace." And I was like, "Well," just like when I told Quentin about this, he's like, "Well, what are those?"

    23. JR

      (laughs)

    24. NA

      (laughs)

    25. RA

      "I'd like to hear those." Everybody wants to hear those. And so one of the ones that I think is the best one is, uh, you inject someone with coffee, caffeine, like, uh, just inject coffee into their bloodstream, gives them a heart attack, and it's untraceable. Later on, they do an autopsy and they just discover caffeine in your system.

    26. JR

      That's it?

    27. RA

      That's it. It's-

    28. JR

      Just right into the blood, coffee can kill you?

    29. RA

      Sometimes the simple ways are the best.

    30. JR

      Like, uh, like, uh, yeah, so just right into the jugular in a, with a syringe?

  2. 3:30 – 4:18

    Modern crime visibility and the ugliness of insurance incentives

    1. JR

      Well, Jamie and I were just talking. They think they have a photo of the guy who whacked that insurance CEO.

    2. NA

      Oh, yeah, yeah, uh-huh.

    3. JR

      Yeah, they think they have a photo of his face now.

    4. NA

      Oh, they do, huh?

    5. RA

      Well, I would think with the amount of cameras-

    6. NA

      From around the time or they, or they picked it up later?

    7. JR

      I think, you know, there's cameras everywhere now.

    8. NA

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    9. JR

      And that's part of the problem with someone... And I don't think this guy was a professional. I think this guy, if I had to guess, some guy who got fucked over. Apparently that company is really bad on denying claims.

    10. RA

      30, 34% denial rate, something like that.

    11. JR

      And normal is like 16.

    12. RA

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Yeah. So those guys-

    14. RA

      I don't think anybody's gonna, like, be crying too hard over that guy. (laughs)

    15. JR

      Yeah, maybe his family, but that's about it.

    16. RA

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      It's a dirty, dirty business. The business of insurance is fucking gross. It's gross. And especially healthcare insurance, just-

    18. RA

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      ... fucking gross.

  3. 4:18 – 10:27

    California wildfires, uninsurable homes, and living on the edge

    1. RA

      Well, actually all insurance. I live in California and, uh, all of a sudden, because I live adjacent to any kind of open space, like, nobody will insure my house because of fire.

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. RA

      And so suddenly it's like I have a house that's uninsurable and it, it's not just me, it's everybody.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. RA

      And so it's chaos.

    6. JR

      Yeah, yeah.

    7. RA

      It's chaos.

    8. JR

      I have a friend that's trying to sell a house in California and they, it turned out it was $125,000 a year just to get fire insurance.

    9. RA

      Yeah.

    10. NA

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      Like what?

    12. RA

      Yeah, it's insane.

    13. JR

      It's fucking nuts.

    14. RA

      It's insane.

    15. JR

      Yeah, but you know, I was evacuated three times when I lived there. I used to live in Bell Canyon and-

    16. RA

      Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, uh-huh.

    17. JR

      ... you know, it was fucking, it was rough.

    18. NA

      I've, like, I've been, like, I've been really lucky. I live in, I'm almost afraid to say it, all right, 'cause I've been living in the, the Hollywood Hills and I've never, any of the fire stuff happens, never happened around my house.

    19. JR

      Yeah, it is just luck, yeah.

    20. RA

      I mean, the benefit of your place is you're at least in a helicopter accessible-

    21. NA

      Well, that is-

    22. RA

      ... they're just gonna dump all that fire retardant right on top of you.

    23. NA

      I literally am kind of, uh, at the top of the hill on a bunch of rock, all right.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. NA

      So if the whole-

    26. JR

      Oh, that's nice.

    27. NA

      ... fucking place just turns into an inferno, I'm still fucked, all right, you know.

    28. RA

      And I think that place has probably been there a while.

    29. NA

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    30. RA

      It's probably withstood all sorts of calamity.

  4. 10:27 – 15:08

    Firefighters, privilege, and the ‘blasé’ mindset around danger

    1. RA

      I- I'm always the, I don't want to say the stupid guy, but I'm the guy who, for some reason, always decides I'm gonna stay.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. RA

      And like I'm gonna ... And you know ...

    4. NA

      Oh, you're that old guy. All right. (laughs)

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. RA

      I live near a fire department. There's a fire hydrant across from my driveway.

    7. NA

      You're the guy on the roof with the flood is happening.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. RA

      Yeah.

    10. NA

      "Get off my property."

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. RA

      Yeah, that's me. Like my family went away and I was like, "Well, they're gonna close it out so we can't get back in. Ah, I'm just gonna hang out here until I know that it's ..." And you know, at a certain point there was fire like cresting the- the ridge, and I'm kind of watching it and I ran down to the fire department to see, you know, like, "Hey guys, it's- it's coming! It's r- I can see it from my house!" And they're all there like hanging out and eating sandwiches and like not even worried about it at all. They were like, they kind of looked over at it and said, "Nah, it's- it's okay."

    13. NA

      (laughs)

    14. RA

      "It'll be fine. It'll just burn a little."

    15. JR

      Yeah, they get a little too blase blase about fire. (laughs)

    16. RA

      They're pretty blase.

    17. NA

      (laughs)

    18. RA

      They- my- by the way, my spec ops friend, uh, he's like, "Oh fuck those firemen, man. Fuck them! They get so much like credit for like nothing! They barely do anything. They're on these incredible pension plans. Like ah, ah, ah." He like hates firemen.

    19. JR

      That's ridiculous.

    20. RA

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      Well, that's a- well, it is a great job. But you can't get mad at someone for having a great job.

    22. RA

      For having a great job.

    23. NA

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      There's a buddy of mine that I used to play pool with, Chris Col...

    25. RA

      Well, he has to actually hump it into another country and kill somebody, so ... (laughs) Like it's ... He's got a real tough job.

    26. NA

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      That's- well, the- the thing is he's not- he's not getting enough credit.

    28. NA

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      That's what it is.

    30. RA

      Yeah. Exactly. That's the-

  5. 15:08 – 24:40

    Video Archives origin story: meeting at a video store and the death of rental retail

    1. JR

      Did you guys work together?

    2. NA

      Yeah.

    3. RA

      Yeah, yeah.

    4. JR

      No shit.

    5. RA

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      That's how you guys met?

    7. NA

      Yeah, uh-huh.

    8. RA

      That's how we met.

    9. JR

      Wow!

    10. RA

      Video Archives in Manhattan Beach, California.

    11. JR

      How fucking cool is that story?

    12. NA

      Yeah, that's from like, uh, '84, yeah.

    13. RA

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      Wow!

    15. NA

      '84 for about five years.

    16. RA

      Yeah. Maybe even a little bit before '84.

    17. NA

      Well, I started officially in '84 because I'm a member-

    18. RA

      But you were a customer before then.

    19. NA

      Well, I was a customer for-

    20. RA

      Yeah.

    21. NA

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      Wow.

    23. NA

      I was a customer before, yeah.

    24. RA

      I, I predated Quinton as, uh, one of the employees, so I was there at-

    25. JR

      Look at you guys.

    26. NA

      There we are.

    27. RA

      Yeah, yeah, actually, yeah, that's, that's us.

    28. JR

      That's crazy.

    29. NA

      Uh, very unfortunate shirt on my part. (laughs)

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  6. 24:40 – 28:27

    From movie obsession to making movies: the indie window opens

    1. QT

      So at what point in time while this is all going on do you guys decide, "We need to make our own fucking movies"?

    2. RA

      Well, it was always the case.

    3. NA

      Well, we were always thinking-

    4. RA

      Really.

    5. NA

      ... well, well, well Roger and, and, uh, Roger had another friend that, it, it was a guy that connected me and Roger together. It was a guy named Scott who, who, uh, took his own life at a certain point really young.

    6. RA

      His father owned another video store that I worked at as well, and that Quentin used to come into.

    7. NA

      But the thing is though, that while I was just thinking about making movies, Roger and Scott were like, making movies on Super 8. (laughs)

    8. RA

      Yeah.

    9. NA

      And they were making little horror films and little zombie movies on, on, on, on Super 8. And then like-

    10. RA

      Supernatural thrillers. (laughs)

    11. NA

      And they're sh- and they're, well, Word Turns is a zombie movie.

    12. RA

      Yeah. Well, yeah.

    13. NA

      (laughs)

    14. RA

      What's it... Yeah, it's kind of an... Yeah, it's kind of a zombie movie. Eh, more of an afterlife film.

    15. NA

      Okay, maybe. Okay.

    16. RA

      (laughs)

    17. NA

      And, but, uh, uh, but you're making like legit horror films.

    18. RA

      Yeah.

    19. NA

      I'm just thinking about this stuff and these guys are like Sam Raimi-ing it, you know?

    20. RA

      Mm.

    21. NA

      Like Sam Raimi. They're making their, their shit in their backyard and they're working on it for like three months and stuff.

    22. RA

      Yeah, and um, you know, like I, I was friends with all the punk guys 'cause it was like LA punk. And, um, so they were always in my movies.

    23. NA

      Skater punks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    24. RA

      All the, all the punks were in my movies 'cause they were media literate.

    25. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    26. RA

      They loved movies, and so they were easy to pull in and, uh, and to be in the films, so they were always playing like, you know, the gang of punks who beat somebody up or something. (laughs)

    27. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    28. QT

      So it must've been cool working at a video store, though, because it's essentially like you have... It's like an education.

    29. RA

      Well, when the time came where we actually wanted to be making movies, where we were talking about making movies, 'cause I can remember when, I think it was, it was around the time of Sex, Lies, and Videotape, or maybe-

    30. NA

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

  7. 28:27 – 39:46

    Making ‘Killing Zoe’: writing fast, Paris chaos, and directing under constraints

    1. RA

      first film, uh, Killing Zoe, um, you know, it was like I knew it was gonna be a bank robbery because I wrote it around a location. You know, we, we found this while they were scouting for, uh, Reservoir Dogs, Lawrence Bender.

    2. NA

      Uh-huh.

    3. RA

      Uh, I, or maybe you also had scouted that location.

    4. NA

      Yeah, yeah.

    5. RA

      Found this bank location. And Lawrence called me up and he's like, "Hey, I'm calling all the writers I know. I found this bank location and if you can, if you have a script that takes place in a bank-"

    6. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    7. RA

      "... we can kick together a couple hundred thousand dollars and make a movie there. It's like this complete, solid, amazing location." And I said, "Oh my god. Lawrence, this is your lucky day. I, I happen to have a script that takes place in a bank." And then I just quickly wrote one. (laughs)

    8. NA

      (laughs)

    9. RA

      Like, based on the location. And as I was writing it, I was thinking, "Okay, um, you know, I know that it's gonna be a bank robbery. It's a bank, and so I know it's gonna be a bank robbery and that's my solid, bankable genre that I'm going to, uh, to stick with." But I knew I wanted to do something more with it, and I had just traveled through Europe and, uh, and I'd been telling Quentin the stories, uh, of traveling through Europe. He's like, "Oh, you should do a movie called Roger Takes a Trip." And, uh-

    10. NA

      I still think it should've been called that. (laughs)

    11. RA

      Well, I think it's a different movie.

    12. NA

      Yeah. (laughs)

    13. RA

      I think it's a different... I don't think it's a-

    14. NA

      No, you kinda made Roger Takes a Trip.

    15. RA

      (laughs)

    16. NA

      Just added bank robbers in it.

    17. RA

      I had been-

    18. NA

      But it's still Roger Takes a Trip.

    19. QT

      (laughs)

    20. RA

      I had been in Paris, I had bumped into a guy that I knew from Los Angeles who was a French guy, and he was like, "Oh, I show you the real Paris." And I went out with he and his friends, Enric, Jeanne, Claude, all the characters from the movie. I went out with him and his friends and we, uh, you know, he drove me through Paris and next thing I know, he's doing heroin and I'm like... And, and it started-

    21. QT

      With you?

    22. RA

      No, not with me. I, I, uh-

    23. NA

      And now we do heroin.

    24. QT

      (laughs)

    25. RA

      Yeah, he was like, "Now we do heroin. Hold my arm." I did hold his arm. And like I had never-

    26. QT

      For real?

    27. RA

      Yeah, yeah.

    28. QT

      Whoa, whoa, whoa.

    29. NA

      (laughs)

    30. RA

      I had never seen anything like that.

  8. 39:46 – 50:33

    Quentin’s wake-up call: comfort as a sedative and the decision to move to Hollywood

    1. NA

      Where you were asking earlier on about, uh, well, w- w- y- you're working at a video store. Did you ever think, you know, when did you start thinking about making your own stuff? Well, I was thinking about making my own stuff for like a long, long, long time, but these guys were actually doing it. Um, but there is a truth. While I thought about it f- like, for a long, long time, and, and always figured I would do that eventually, I did fall asleep for a few years. You know? It wa- uh, uh, because, uh, working at that store, I just got caught up in the little life there. And it was, you know, i- it's interesting, because, um, you know, you spent your 20s going to comedy clubs and, you know, building, building a career. So I'm spending my 20s there, and well, it's one of those things where it's like, "Well, this isn't my dream." (laughs)

    2. QT

      (laughs)

    3. NA

      "This isn't what I wanted to do, working at a video store for years. Uh, I wanted to actually make movies. It's not my dream, what I'm doing, but it's dream-adjacent. It's, it's close to my dream. It's close to my dream. I get to watch movies all fucking day."

    4. QT

      (laughs)

    5. NA

      "I get to talk about movies all fucking day. I don't have to work, uh, at a pizza parlor. I don't have to... I'm not delivering pizzas. I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not busting ass, uh, as a bartender. I'm not busting ass doing menial jobs." I mean, this is the kinda job I, uh, uh, uh, that, you know, I, I'd do if I... I'd, I'd go to this store if I wasn't paid to go to this store.

    6. QT

      Mm.

    7. NA

      You know, so it's like, you know, but, but for a couple years, it did put me to sleep. It did kind of put me to sleep. It, it, it put my ambitions to sleep-

    8. QT

      Mm.

    9. NA

      ... for a little bit, because I was happy enough.

    10. QT

      Yeah.

    11. NA

      I was happy, uh, and just thought that one of these days, I'll...

    12. RA

      Right, but you didn't have the fire.

    13. NA

      I didn't have the fire. And when I got the fire, when I eventually got the fire back again, and it was a life-changing thing. It was a life-changing day. It was, um, we had a buddy of ours named Steve-O.

    14. RA

      Yeah.

    15. NA

      And I, he was one, uh, he, uh, uh, um, we had different living arrangements, and at one point in time, me and Steve-O were living in the same house together, renting a, a, a, in the back of the, towards the back of the store.

    16. RA

      The dude house.

    17. NA

      Yeah. (laughs) It was where everyone would hang out. And, um, but now, Steve-O was older than the rest of us, so if like, he was about like, almost five years older than us, but he, he didn't seem like it. He was a young guy, like-

    18. RA

      Yeah, like five years younger mentally. (laughs)

    19. NA

      (laughs)

    20. QT

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

    21. RA

      Or emotionally.

    22. NA

      Yeah, yeah. And, um, but... So he hits 30, and he starts changing.

    23. RA

      Yeah.

    24. NA

      He starts changing, like drastically. He's at, I mean, he was like, the f- one of the funniest guys I ever knew.

    25. RA

      Yeah.

    26. NA

      And he was this really, really funny stoner dude, and really cool. And all of a sudden, he's like angry about things. And now he's not quite as funny, and now he's got this issue. And so we're, we're roommates, and there's this one night that he's kind of like all, he's kind of disgusted with his life, and he starts ranting. And he, and, and he's describing a situation that was very common if you were a kid growing up without a, you know, without a degree or anything in, in the '80s, especially in California, where it's like you can't get any really good jobs, but like, you can work at l- uh, Licorice Pizza.And if you're an okay employee, you could, like, work at Licorice Pizza for a couple of years and maybe you could even become assistant manager or a manager and maybe they send you to another store and- and maybe you work there for three years and that's really great. But then, you know, all of a sudden, uh, a district manager doesn't like you, you run afoul of somebody, uh, higher up in corporate and all of a sudden, next thing you know, you're fired and you're out on the street.

    27. NA

      Again, it's management.

    28. NA

      Yeah.

    29. NA

      Yeah.

    30. NA

      Okay. And so now you've just spent three years at Licorice Pizza. Now- now you could get a job at TRW or some other place that's like a real job job or, uh, well those are kind of hard to get, but you can work at Warehouse Records and Tapes tomorrow 'cause you just had three years at Licorice Pizza.

  9. 50:33 – 1:02:00

    Comedy parallels: building talent hubs, earning stage time, and the 10-year rule

    1. JR

      This is exactly what we-

    2. NA

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      ... tried to do when we built the mothership here.

    4. NA

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    5. JR

      What we've done. We decided when we left LA, like, we need a place where comics have a hub. And when we were all in Austin, we all-

    6. NA

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      ... just moved to Austin because of the pandemic.

    8. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      And all of a sudden, we were allowed to perform indoors.

    10. NA

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      It was crazy. In November of 2020, we were doing shows indoors. And you know, you couldn't go on Twitter because they would call you a b- super spreader or-

    12. NA

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      ... a, a fucking monster. But everybody started moving here, and by the, you know, by the time 2020 rolls around, there's like 15, 16 world-class comedians-

    14. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      ... that didn't used to live in Austin that are here now. And we were like, "Let's, let's build a club."

    16. NA

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      So we bought the Ritz Theatre, uh, where-

    18. NA

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      ... uh, you know, some of your movies have played. (laughs)

    20. NA

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    21. JR

      It's fucking crazy. And when we put it together, the, the whole idea was like have a place where people can come. We have two nights of open mic nights-

    22. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    23. JR

      ... Monday and T- or, uh, Sunday and Monday night. So there's always a chance to get on stage.

    24. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    25. JR

      There's always a guy. There's a real t- talen- Igen, is a r- Adam Igen is a real talent coordinator. He's really gonna watch you, he's really gonna give you advice. And you're around the best comics in the world all the time.

    26. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      And everybody knows it's possible. And everybody treats you the way you would want to be treated if you were starting. So you're just one of us, you just started, but you're not, we're not better than you. We're not, we're not, there's nothing special about us.

    28. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    29. JR

      We're just telling you. We, we started walking and now we're 15 miles in. You're 15 feet in. Just keep walking.

    30. NA

      Yeah.

  10. 1:02:00 – 1:14:07

    Fame, executives, and keeping your edge: strongest point of view wins

    1. JR

      Mm, yeah. Yeah, the, the fame thing is no one can teach you how to do that.

    2. RA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      There, there's someone... There needs to be, like, a group of people to get together with people that are about to get famous and say-

    4. NA

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      ... "Hey, listen."

    6. RA

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      "We're famous already. Let me tell you how fucking weird this is."

    8. NA

      (laughs)

    9. RA

      "And I don't know if you're prepared for this." When we were first trying to make True Romance, uh, you know, Quentin had this amazing screenplay, and it was like, uh, we were gonna try to do it Coen brothers style.

    10. JR

      Yeah, yeah.

    11. RA

      We had just seen Blood Simple and we were like, "Okay, I'm gonna produce, Quentin's gonna direct, we're gonna go out and make this." Our first thought was, "Okay, we've got this database of doctors and lawyers-"

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. NA

      (laughs)

    14. RA

      "... and housewives in Manhattan Beach. We're gonna go to the video store." You know, we ended up not doing that.

    15. NA

      Wow.

    16. JR

      You gonna ask them for money?

    17. RA

      But that was... Well, we never-

    18. NA

      We were gonna go...

    19. RA

      We never had the balls to actually ask, ask anybody for money.

    20. JR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    21. NA

      (laughs)

    22. RA

      Yeah, it was...

    23. NA

      We talked about them.

    24. RA

      Thinking about getting money and actually getting money are two different things.

    25. NA

      We str- We strategized about it a lot, but we never actually...

    26. RA

      I drew up full partnership papers before-

    27. NA

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      (laughs)

    29. RA

      ... uh, before that whole dream failed-

    30. JR

      (laughs)

Episode duration: 3:19:49

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