Joe Rogan Experience #2258 - Steven Rinella

1. 0:00 – 1:56

   Trump’s “tenacity” and what toughness really means

   1. SRSteven Rinella0:00

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Steve Rinella.

   4. SRSteven Rinella0:14

      (laughs) That was a long exhale.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      (laughs) I needed one.

   6. SRSteven Rinella0:17

      I- is this Trump's chair?

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Uh, he sat in that chair, yeah.

   8. SRSteven Rinella0:21

      Oh.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      (laughs)

   10. SRSteven Rinella0:21

       I wanna soak up some of the tenacity, man.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       (laughs) He's got a lot of that.

   12. SRSteven Rinella0:26

       That, it took me a long time, man. Um, it took me a long time to, to, to see it. Like, I remember when people would talk, you know, th- th- there was this thing when he, when he emerged on the scene, it was a thing about, like, toughness.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SRSteven Rinella0:37

       And I'd always defined, like in my mind, toughness was being able to go through some, like, alder-choked hellhole real fast.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Right.

   16. SRSteven Rinella0:43

       Or hike up a hill.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Right.

   18. SRSteven Rinella0:45

       So I was like, "That's not tough." And then later I was like, "Oh." (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Yeah.

   20. SRSteven Rinella0:50

       Like that kind of-

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Mental toughness.

   22. SRSteven Rinella0:52

       That kind of tough, man.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       I mean, think about what that guy went through. I mean, he had the entire media, the entire justice system. He had, uh, the, the deep state, the Central Intelligence Agency. He had all these people, like, conspiring to take him out. Literally an assassination attempt and then another one. In and out of the news in no time, nobody cared, no grace period.

   24. SRSteven Rinella1:14

       No.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:15

       They, they, they went, they went, waited about a day, and then they started talking shit about him again.

   26. SRSteven Rinella1:19

       That's the thing is I would've, uh, when I looked at like now that I've come to understand it better, I'm like, m- like, the fact that, uh, most people would've crawled into a hole.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:30

       Yeah.

   28. SRSteven Rinella1:31

       You know, after a while. I got, I, I got a buddy, I don't wanna say who it is, but he, uh, he had sold his business and he told me, he goes, "Well, I'm gonna, when I sell my business, I'm gonna crawl into a deep, dark hole." And, um, later he's kinda back out and bought another business. And I said, "What about crawling into the deep, dark hole?" And he said, "Well, I did, but my wife was in there." (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       (laughs)

   30. SRSteven Rinella1:52

       He goes, "I have to get back. I'm not ready yet. I gotta get back out." (laughs)

2. 1:56 – 4:05

   Retirement, purpose, and why humans need hard problems

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:56

      Wha- th- people, th- I think that's like these sort of fictional depictions of the future that, you know, everybody wants this future where, you know, you're just holding hands and walking off into the sunset.

   2. SRSteven Rinella2:09

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:10

      The, the golden years. It's all bullshit. If you're alive, you're gonna wanna do the same things you're doing right now.

   4. SRSteven Rinella2:16

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:16

      You're not gonna have some point in your life where you're gonna wanna do nothing and be happy that you don't have to do anything. You're gonna get depressed.

   6. SRSteven Rinella2:23

      Yeah, I think about it. But my, my wife's-

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:25

      (laughs)

   8. SRSteven Rinella2:25

      My wife's smart enough to worry about what'd happen to us if we didn't have, like, you know, dragons to slay.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:30

      Yeah.

   10. SRSteven Rinella2:31

       You know? She feels that it might be essential.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       It's essential for life.

   12. SRSteven Rinella2:35

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:35

       You need puzzle- you need at least some sort of a very involving hobby.

   14. SRSteven Rinella2:39

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:40

       You need something. I mean, you can retire from, if you have a lot of money, you could retire from your financial pursuits, but you need something that you enjoy doing. Hu- human beings need tasks.

   16. SRSteven Rinella2:52

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:52

       If you don't have something, you, you get very dull, and that's how people get Alzheimer's. They just fucking-

   18. SRSteven Rinella2:57

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:57

       ... get dementia. They just like sit around the house and their brain atrophies and, and then they just die.

   20. SRSteven Rinella3:04

       Yeah. Well, I look at people like that and, and, um, you know, part of looking at, uh, well, Biden and Trump would be, uh, at that age, like I plan on at that age to be like really kicking it and just screwing around outside.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:22

       Yeah, just having fun.

   22. SRSteven Rinella3:22

       But that just thing the, like, to perform to the bitter end, man.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       Mm-hmm. Well, Biden is not performing. I mean-

   24. SRSteven Rinella3:29

       Trying to perform to the bitter end.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:30

       Whatever he's doing-

   26. SRSteven Rinella3:31

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:32

       ... is strange.

   28. SRSteven Rinella3:33

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       But I think-

   30. SRSteven Rinella3:33

       Trying to keep at it.
3. 4:05 – 5:45

   Rogan on longevity: podcasting forever, standup, and avoiding ‘responsibility jobs’

   1. SRSteven Rinella4:05

      How long do you think, how long do you think you would, if you had to guess, how long would you do this podcast?

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:08

      This is the easiest thing I do.

   3. SRSteven Rinella4:10

      Really?

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:10

      Yeah, I'll do this forever.

   5. SRSteven Rinella4:12

      Really?

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:12

      It's so easy to do. Yeah, as long as I'm actually interested in talking to the people.

   7. SRSteven Rinella4:16

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:16

      How, how hard is that?

   9. SRSteven Rinella4:18

      (laughs) If you're actually interested.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:19

       Yeah, but that's the only reason why I do it anyway.

   11. SRSteven Rinella4:21

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:22

       Like, I only talk to people I want to talk to. So, uh, no one ever tells me, "You know, have this person on your show." There's-

   13. SRSteven Rinella4:28

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:28

       ... there's literally zero input from anyone else. So, everybody I talk to, I look at or go, "Do I wanna talk to that guy? That might be cool, that'd be interesting."

   15. SRSteven Rinella4:36

       So-

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:36

       "I wanna find out what makes him tick. I wanna find out what, why she writes those books like that. I wanna find out, you know, what, what keeps him going." That, that's like the whole, the whole reason why I do it is 'cause I enjoy it.

   17. SRSteven Rinella4:48

       If, do you picture, do you picture walking away from standup before you'd walk away from podcasts?

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       I don't know. Why would I do that too?

   19. SRSteven Rinella4:55

       Hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       I own my own club now. Like, I don't have to-

   21. SRSteven Rinella4:57

       I don't know, I'm 50 years old man, I'm just starting to wonder.

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:58

       (laughs)

   23. SRSteven Rinella4:58

       I'm just starting to have all these questions.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:00

       No.

   25. SRSteven Rinella5:00

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       I think you enjoy, you just stay healthy. Stay healthy and do what you enjoy doing.

   27. SRSteven Rinella5:05

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:05

       I think live in the moment. I think this idea of, like, planning for the future is, like, silly. I really do. I think you should have goals, like if you enjoy doing things and you're like, "I would like to get to this point. I would like to do this," or, something to strive towards, that's good.

   29. SRSteven Rinella5:18

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       But this idea that, like, you know, one day you're just gonna, like, stop doing stuff. Like, why?
4. 5:45 – 10:04

   Fame’s hidden cost: opportunists, parasocial intimacy, and “people who like you too much”

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:45

      But it, I could conceive a time where I would, I don't wanna do it anymore. I don't wanna be a public person anymore. The public aspect of it is the weirdest part. The people constantly wanting your time and everybody thinking-

   2. SRSteven Rinella5:55

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:55

      ... that if I can connect with this guy that I can make a lot of money, I can set up a business with him, I can do this with him, I can do that with him. He can introduce me to this. I can, you know, work with him. I could do, like, there's a lot of that, a lot of that that's exhausting. A lot of these, like, opportunists and, and weirdos.

   4. SRSteven Rinella6:12

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:12

      You know, those, those are exhausting.

   6. SRSteven Rinella6:14

      I remember years ago...... three, four years ago, you told me that you wished you were, uh, (laughs) we were eating barbecue and you tell me you wished you were (laughs) 10% less famous, which I thought was-

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:26

      (laughs)

   8. SRSteven Rinella6:26

      ... but I feel like then you got 20% more famous. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:29

      Yeah. Yeah, I fucked up. Well, I thought doing the Spotify thing-

   10. SRSteven Rinella6:32

       I was like, "His direction isn't going the right way. (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:35

       That was the whole reason why I took the Spotify deal. I was like, "Good, they're gonna give me a lot of money and it'll only be on Spotify, so I'll be about 10% less famous. Good. Let me slide off into obscurity."

   12. SRSteven Rinella6:44

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:45

       Because all, I mean, as long as I'm making money, uh, I was like, "I just enjoy doing it. I don't care how many pe- Like, the people that like it will still listen."

   14. SRSteven Rinella6:53

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       "So, maybe I'll have less casual fans. Like, who cares?"

   16. SRSteven Rinella6:56

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:56

       "Who cares?" You know?

   18. SRSteven Rinella6:58

       You know.

   19. JRJoe Rogan6:59

       There's a certain level of fame, though, that's a little unmanageable, and I'm in that level.

   20. SRSteven Rinella7:04

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:04

       It's very unmanageable.

   22. SRSteven Rinella7:05

       You know what it is? Well, (laughs) part, you know, uh, if you'll allow me to tell you what it is. (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:10

       Okay, please do.

   24. SRSteven Rinella7:11

       A- and I- I observed this, uh, I observed this w- with my- my wife who's traveling with me right now. I observed this after, uh, we'd had dinner with you one time, and, um, certain individuals, you included, would be that, um, it's not necessarily, it's not just people that don't like you. Right? There's people that like you too much.

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:36

       Yeah.

   26. SRSteven Rinella7:37

       And it's like-

   27. JRJoe Rogan7:38

       People that don't like you just avoid you. Those are great.

   28. SRSteven Rinella7:39

       I know, and so it's like you gotta, like at a certain point, you gotta worry about the people that like you. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan7:44

       Yeah. Oh, believe me, I know.

   30. SRSteven Rinella7:46

       'Cause they like you a lot. You know?
5. 10:04 – 11:28

   Authenticity, long-form exposure, and the ‘Ellen’ lesson

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:04

      Bullshitting people. Yeah. But, you know, there's always that suspicion when you see someone on television that they're not really that way because there's been a-

   2. SRSteven Rinella10:14

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:14

      Like Ellen, like the Ellen situation.

   4. SRSteven Rinella10:16

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:16

      You know, when people found out that Ellen was mean, and all these people came out and said, "Ellen's actually a fucking bitch." And then we go, "Whoa."

   6. SRSteven Rinella10:22

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:22

      "I can't believe it." And she lost everything. She fell apart. Disappeared. Because people found out that this character that she was portraying in a half an hour on a television show is not really who she was.

   8. SRSteven Rinella10:32

      Yup.

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:33

      You know, but I had already known that, 'cause I had a buddy who worked for her.

   10. SRSteven Rinella10:36

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:37

       Like, and he was like, "She's a fucking monster."

   12. SRSteven Rinella10:39

       Yeah. I didn't have, I didn't have a lot of, I didn't really, uh, had a lot of awareness. You probably did just from, from being in the business, you know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:46

       I only did because of my buddy.

   14. SRSteven Rinella10:48

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:48

       My buddy Greg, who was one of her writers, was like, "She's a piece of shit. I hate her."

   16. SRSteven Rinella10:51

       Yeah, I didn't- I didn't know enough to be surprised.

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:56

       It's just people that, um, they get in those positions of power, and if their whole life they've been fucked with and picked on or, you know, they- they've been marginalized, and then all of a sudden, they're in control, like, "Oh, now it's payback." There's a lot of those folks.

   18. SRSteven Rinella11:10

       That's what happened to Castro. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:12

       (laughs) Is that it?

   20. SRSteven Rinella11:13

       That's-

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:13

       Is that what happened to Castro?

   22. SRSteven Rinella11:14

       Yeah, I mean like, you know. I mean, it's like the, uh, uh, in fact, I- I would talk about that a little bit in some, you know, I've- I've discussed that in like various conversations around when you watch like certain political fortunes rise as it becomes, things become vindictive quickly.

6. 11:28 – 18:13

   Canada, hate-speech laws, and the Jordan Peterson ‘re-education’ fight

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:28

      I don't even go to Canada anymore. I won't go to Canada for UFC. I don't go over there.

   2. SRSteven Rinella11:34

      Man, I've spent my whole life in the northern tier states, but I've- I've remained, uh, um, somewhat oblivious to political movements in Canada.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:44

      Well, they don't have free speech up there. They don't have a First Amendment. They have different laws. They have hate speech laws-

   4. SRSteven Rinella11:49

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:49

      ... which are very dangerous. Because who defines hate speech?

   6. SRSteven Rinella11:53

      Yep.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:53

      You know, like so, hate speech laws in Canada, they refer to gender pronouns now. So like, not just male, female. Like, if a guy says, like if Caitlyn Jenner decides that she's a girl, or like Bruce Jenner decides he's a girl, now you have to call him Caitlyn. If you don't, that's hate speech. Like, okay, maybe that's debatable. Maybe you're being an asshole. But no, they want like all 78 fake genders, like Xe/Xir and all these fucking crazy fake ones.

   8. SRSteven Rinella12:17

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:17

      And They/Thems and...

   10. SRSteven Rinella12:18

       Well, that- that's where like, that- that's, I mean, isn't that conversation what-... spawned kind of the ascendancy of, uh, Jordan Peterson, right, coming out-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:26

       100%.

   12. SRSteven Rinella12:26

       ... yeah, coming out of Canada.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:27

       Well, that's how Jordan and I became friends.

   14. SRSteven Rinella12:29

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:29

       In 2015. And then Jordan did my podcast, and then J- Jordan became a famous guy for speaking out against this.

   16. SRSteven Rinella12:37

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:38

       He's going through some sort of bizarre reeducation process in Canada, and he's going to, uh, publicize it because it's so ludicrous. So they, they want to re-... educate him on, uh, like, what he, what he talks about on social media if he wants to keep his clinical license to practice as a, a psychotherapist.

   18. SRSteven Rinella12:57

       Oh, is that right?

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       But he doesn't wanna practice anyway. He makes far more money doing what... They've essentially made a monster. They made him way more famous than he ever would have been before.

   20. SRSteven Rinella13:04

       Sure, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       They, they highlighted all of Canada's problems way more than would ever get highlighted without this persecution of this guy.

   22. SRSteven Rinella13:13

       Hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:14

       It's kinda crazy though.

   24. SRSteven Rinella13:15

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:15

       So he's going through it. He's like, "Fuck you. I'll, I'll go through it, and I'll go through it publicly. Y- y- you guys are idiots." Also, they're gonna have to talk to him.

   26. SRSteven Rinella13:21

       Know- knowing what the outcome will be.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:22

       Well, knowing he's gonna trounce them. Like, good luck debating that guy.

   28. SRSteven Rinella13:26

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:26

       Good fucking luck. Like, good luck. Like, who do you got on your side-

   30. SRSteven Rinella13:30

       Hmm.
7. 18:13 – 27:58

   Politics as a ‘creepy business’: corruption gravity and California fire mismanagement

   1. SRSteven Rinella18:13

      Yeah. You ever gonna run for governor of Texas?

   2. JRJoe Rogan18:15

      No.

   3. SRSteven Rinella18:16

      No?

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:17

      No. I'm not running for nothing. I don't wanna do nothing.

   5. SRSteven Rinella18:19

      (laughs) Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:19

      I don't wanna do a goddamn thing.

   7. SRSteven Rinella18:21

      I could picture down the road, man, you might be like, "I wanna be governor of Texas."

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:25

      Fuck that. Why would I do that? I have the best job in the world.

   9. SRSteven Rinella18:28

      I don't know.

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:28

       I get to talk shit with zero responsibilities.

   11. SRSteven Rinella18:31

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:31

       If I get something wrong, I go, "Listen, I'm a moron. Why are you listening to me in the first place?"... no, I have no desire in any way, shape, or form to have anything to do with anything involving politics, or i- I don't want to be in control of it. I don't even like having employees. Jamie's awesome. But I mean, I don't like having employees.

   13. SRSteven Rinella18:48

       He nodded. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:48

       But he's just great. He's just great. He's easy. Like, th- that's why there's so few of us here.

   15. SRSteven Rinella18:53

       Uh-huh.

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:53

       You know, like, I, I have a friend who has a podcast, a big podcast, and he has like fucking 13 people working for him, people running around with clipboards. I'm like, "What do these people do?"

   17. SRSteven Rinella19:02

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:02

       Like, "Why do you have so many people working for you?" Like, this is ... doesn't it freak you out? And he's always got, like, inter-office conflicts and people getting fired 'cause people are fighting with each other-

   19. SRSteven Rinella19:10

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:10

       ... and people fighting over, like, promotions and trying to get to ... Like backstabbing each other and, like, ugh.

   21. SRSteven Rinella19:17

       Yeah, maybe you wouldn't like being governor.

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:18

       Fuck that.

   23. SRSteven Rinella19:19

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:19

       I would hate it. I wouldn't want ... I don't wanna be a mayor. I don't wanna be nothing. I don't wanna be nothing. But I did get some sort of-

   25. SRSteven Rinella19:26

       (laughs) Not even a mayor? (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:28

       No, I don't wanna be a city councilman. I don't wanna be a con- ... I don't wanna be shit. I, I, I don't like the whole thing about it. It's just ... It's not ... It's not a good gig. It's just a ... It's a creepy business.

   27. SRSteven Rinella19:41

       Hm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:41

       It's a very creepy and prostitutional business. It's just ... I don't like it.

   29. SRSteven Rinella19:47

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:48

       Yeah.
8. 27:58 – 35:41

   Environmental tradeoffs in real ecosystems: oil rigs as reefs, lake habitat mistakes

   1. NANarrator27:58

      That's your world. Yeah, it's, um ... There's a balance, a balance to be held for sure. You know, I'm not real thrilled with this idea of like continuing to d- drill for oil in the Gulf and dr- drill for oil everywhere. And knowing that occasionally these things blow up, and-

   2. SRSteven Rinella28:16

      Yeah.

   3. NANarrator28:16

      ... you have a, a massive pollution and ... But also, I don't think we should be dependent on Saudi Arabia for all our oil. You know?

   4. SRSteven Rinella28:25

      It's a mix. You know, uh, one of the, one of the, uh, kind of contradictions you encounter with stuff like this, and, and I've been a little bit involved in this the last few years, is I started going down to the Gulf of Mexico to spearfish on the oil rigs. And so, the oil rigs are ... (clears throat) They're ver- ... Uh, imagine like a, a vertical coral reef, you know? You ... Uh, I don't wanna call it ... By, by no means do I want to call the Gulf a desert, but I mean, you could ... If you're away from the rigs, you could swim along the surface for miles, potentially. Right? If you just swim with a snorkel and mask. You can swim along the surface for miles and not encounter fish. I mean, just encounter them where you're seeing them in front of your face.

   5. NANarrator29:08

      Right.

   6. SRSteven Rinella29:09

      And you pull up to a rig, and it's, it's hung in fish. I mean, it's dr- ... It, it, it's ... They're, they're draped in thousands of fish. Okay? So, you know, you grow up with this idea that if you just have a passive understanding of all this stuff, you grow up with this idea that like oil ex- ... Oil exploration equals a diminishing of natural life, a diminishing of wildlife. And then you go and, uh ... And there, there's this big debate where certain people want to pull the abandoned rigs out, but you have fishermen who are like, "They're here now! Leave them."

   7. NANarrator29:47

      Yeah.

   8. SRSteven Rinella29:47

      Because that's where all the fish are.

   9. NANarrator29:48

      Yeah.

   10. SRSteven Rinella29:49

       You know? And it's this, uh, it's this very sp- It's this very spirited debate, and different administrations will have different plans. They had a program like idle iron, which was to pull them out. There was a program called Rigs to Reefs, which is to tip them over so they're not navigational hazards. The, uh, shrimpers don't like them 'cause they, they are, they're a ... You know, they cause like navigational obstructions and you can hang your gear up on them. But all the rod and reel fishermen and all the spear fishermen want the rigs there. So, you wind up in this situation like that where it's this real complexity. And y- you can picture, um ... You know, it puts people in a situation, uh, in viewing it, it puts you in a situation where it's not that clean.

   11. NANarrator30:28

       Yeah.

   12. SRSteven Rinella30:28

       You know?

   13. NANarrator30:29

       Yeah.

   14. SRSteven Rinella30:29

       Like, you're creating ... I mean, you ... They ... You almost hate to say it, 'cause you're supposed to, you know ... Y- you know, you're, you're supposed to be, uh, an- ... You know, most people from the environmental movement are anti oli- oil exploration, but then you go and look and be like, they created like an unb- ... Accidentally created an unbelievable fishery-

   15. NANarrator30:49

       Yeah.

   16. SRSteven Rinella30:50

       ... in the Gulf. And there's dudes now, like I got buddies that spearfish there and fish there.And it's like, you remember in Star Wars, the original Star Wars, where they go to that fucking planet and the planet's gone?

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SRSteven Rinella31:00

       They're like, "Hey, shouldn't the planet be here?" You know, that scene? I've been with buddies of mine and they got, they got GPS marks for rigs, and you show up and it's like Star Wars. It's like you show up and the rig's not there anymore.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       Ah.

   20. SRSteven Rinella31:13

       'Cause there's these ships out there called rig reapers (laughs) that are out plucking the rigs, and they're plucking them faster than they can put them in. But it's got all the fishermen pissed off.

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:22

       That's an interesting situation.

   22. SRSteven Rinella31:23

       Yeah, they want them there now, man.

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       Lake Austin has a similar situation. So Lake Austin used to be this am- it's still very good for bass fishing.

   24. SRSteven Rinella31:31

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:31

       They have big bass on Lake Austin. And, um, the people that live on the lake, you know, the high-falutin' folks didn't like all the weeds.

   26. SRSteven Rinella31:41

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:41

       So they brought in carp.

   28. SRSteven Rinella31:43

       Oh.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       And the carp ate everything.

   30. SRSteven Rinella31:44

       Yeah.
9. 35:41 – 43:44

   Toxins in fish: mercury, arsenic, advisories, and bioaccumulation explained

   1. JRJoe Rogan35:41

      Yeah, we were talking the other day about, uh, eating freshwater fish.

   2. SRSteven Rinella35:46

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan35:46

      And how, how much toxic chemicals are in freshwater fish. It's fucking bananas.

   4. SRSteven Rinella35:51

      Well, they have state advisories, which I've always ignored.

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:54

      (laughs)

   6. SRSteven Rinella35:55

      I've always ignored.

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:56

      Have you ever got your blood tested?

   8. SRSteven Rinella35:58

      No. But you wanna know, I might have told you this story, man. Did I ever tell you a story about this?

   9. JRJoe Rogan36:02

      Which one?

   10. SRSteven Rinella36:02

       Well, I'll tell it real quick. So I grew up with a guy who, th- uh, a guy named Ron Spring.

   11. JRJoe Rogan36:08

       Yes.

   12. SRSteven Rinella36:08

       He had his own... I tell you the Ron Spring story?

   13. JRJoe Rogan36:10

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead, go ahead though. Please do.

   14. SRSteven Rinella36:11

       Okay, never mind. Oh. Well, fuck, I tell the story to too many people.

   15. JRJoe Rogan36:13

       I don't think you told it on here.

   16. SRSteven Rinella36:14

       Okay.

   17. JRJoe Rogan36:15

       (laughs)

   18. SRSteven Rinella36:15

       I grew up with this guy, Ron Spring, and h- for a living, he was a commercial bait fisherman. He would, um, he would catch wigglers, minnows. He'd, uh, dig crawlers, catch leeches, and he would supply bait and tackle shops with live bait. And he had Spring Sporting Goods where he sold his own live bait. And he would even hire women to sew what's called a spawn sack, where you take little bits of sal- pieces of salmon roe, salmon eggs, and sew them into a little mesh bag for steelhead bait. He was just in the bait business. But also was a fish and fanatic, and lived off fish his whole life. So he was living off Great Lakes fish his whole life. And the University of Montana started trying to track down...... old timers who'd eaten, like, enormous quantities of great lake fish- great lakes fish to test them for heavy metals exposure, okay? And, and, and other toxic things that are in the environment. And he'd lived his whole life like me with like, like, uh, you know, complete defiance of health advisory suggestions about fish consumption. Um, and he goes down there and he... And he would go in every month or two for these, like, batteries of tests, and one of the things they would do with him is they would tell him... They'd give him a grocery list. And they'd be like, "Okay, you gotta go to the store and buy, like, bread, eggs, cheese, butter," whatever. And then they'd wait a minute and they'd say, "What were you supposed to buy at the store?" You know, and he's telling me this story, and he told me... I always laugh because he said, um, "Steve, I wouldn't have remembered that list if I never ate a piece of fish in my life." (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan37:48

       (laughs) So they were trying to, like, gauge his memory based on the-

   20. SRSteven Rinella37:51

       They were trying to-

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:51

       ... amount of heavy metal in his body?

   22. SRSteven Rinella37:52

       They... Yeah, they were trying to... They were... Pre- presumably they tested his blood and found something of interest, and so-

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:57

       Yeah.

   24. SRSteven Rinella37:57

       ... they were trying to figure out, like, what happens to a guy. But, uh, I lived in Seattle in, uh... (clears throat) Right on Lake Washington, and we would catch a lot of yellow perch. Because people th-... They're full of yellow perch, which are not native, and everyone in, in that area, in the Pacific Northwest, is like a trout and salmon snob. So I had the whole fishery to myself.

   25. JRJoe Rogan38:16

       Hmm.

   26. SRSteven Rinella38:16

       You know? You c- you could go out and catch, easily, you know, 100 plus yellow perch out of Lake Washington, but they had a health advisory on them, and you weren't supposed to... They would tell you that perch over 12 inches, you're only supposed to eat one meal a month or some shit like that. But we just wouldn't keep them over 12 inches, um, because there weren't that many under- over 12 inches anyways, and we'd just eat them all the time. I would have fish fries. And when you fried fish in the Great Lakes, there's no person in the Great Lakes region that I was aware of. Like, in Michigan, there's no person that would even kinda give a shit about these restrictions. They would be surprised to hear that there were any kind of restrictions. But, like, the way the different sentiments and different mentalities run, in Seattle, you'd have people that, like... They're like, "You caught it where? Lake Washington? No way." Right? Just like an a- like, a level of awareness from, like, an urban environment about those kind of toxins.

   27. JRJoe Rogan39:09

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SRSteven Rinella39:10

       And, and growing up where I grew up, it was just not a thing that people discussed.

   29. JRJoe Rogan39:14

       Mm.

   30. SRSteven Rinella39:14

       Even though they're right in the fishing regs.
10. 43:44 – 1:10:42

    Chronic Wasting Disease deep dive: spread, testing, risks, and the fear of ‘patient zero’

    1. JRJoe Rogan43:44

       (laughs) That was his attitude about it. (laughs) Well, there's no cases of, uh, CWD getting into humans yet, right?

    2. SRSteven Rinella43:55

       Nope.

    3. JRJoe Rogan43:56

       No. But that's the big fear. Like you and I are on a text chain with Ted Nugent.

    4. SRSteven Rinella44:00

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan44:00

       And he's always like trying to-

    6. SRSteven Rinella44:01

       I met Ted's kid last night.

    7. JRJoe Rogan44:03

       Which one? Rocco?

    8. SRSteven Rinella44:03

       Rocco.

    9. JRJoe Rogan44:04

       Yeah. Good kid.

    10. SRSteven Rinella44:05

        Yeah. Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan44:05

        Um, you know, Ted is always trying to dismiss the concerns of CWD. He doesn't believe in it.

    12. SRSteven Rinella44:13

        Yeah. (sighs)

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:13

        Like, he thinks it's overhyped.

    14. SRSteven Rinella44:15

        Well, yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan44:17

        It scares the fuck out of me.

    16. SRSteven Rinella44:19

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan44:19

        Because, it, it's a prion disease, right?

    18. SRSteven Rinella44:21

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan44:21

        So if it jumps to people, and it has jumped to like certain, uh, rodent species, isn't that correct?

    20. SRSteven Rinella44:28

        No, right now it's just, it's str- it's cervids.

    21. JRJoe Rogan44:30

        Oh, just cervid?

    22. SRSteven Rinella44:31

        Cervids, yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan44:32

        There hasn't been a case of it jumping to like a mole or something like that?

    24. SRSteven Rinella44:36

        Well, they did- (sighs) You know when you do... I don't want to get in over my waders here, but... I'd love to talk about CWD at length, but y- sometimes you can do a, uh... If someone does medical research, and they'll, they'll have a finding. There's a term for it. Let's say you have a finding that's alarming, but you haven't done peer review yet.

    25. JRJoe Rogan44:58

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SRSteven Rinella44:58

        Right? But l- let's say I just all of a sudden made some discovery that had huge implications, and people would need to become immediately aware of what I might have found out, right?

    27. JRJoe Rogan45:08

        Mm-hmm.

    28. SRSteven Rinella45:08

        Um, there's a term for it, where you would release these... You would release these like preliminary findings, even though it hasn't been held up to academic rigor, because it's of such importance. Like a lot of times you don't get to skip that step, but in cases of medical, you get to skip a step and say like, "Hey, hang tight. We're not all the way there yet, but look, this is kind of alarming."

    29. JRJoe Rogan45:30

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SRSteven Rinella45:31

        They had a case and it, and it all corroded, but these guys had a case where they were able to in, in fact, a rhesus monkey with CWD.
11. 1:10:42 – 1:33:07

    Pandemic aftermath: mistrust, masks, pharma incentives, and ‘Gell-Mann amnesia’

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:10:42

       I'm also s- super skeptical of the, um, herd mindset that people fall into whenever there's some sort of a pandemic, when there's a high level of anxiety. A lot of people fall into this herd mindset.

    2. SRSteven Rinella1:10:54

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:10:54

       And that scares the shit out of me too, because there's just a lot of people that are cowards, and they're afraid to ... They're afraid of public humiliation, public, you know, public criticism. They're afraid of getting ostracized from the community if they don't follow suit like everybody else is doing, and so then they start to try to enforce it on everybody else. It's like the people that were yelling at everybody else, "Where's your mask?"

    4. SRSteven Rinella1:11:16

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:11:16

       "Put your mask on." Like, you know, there's people ... I went to a restaurant the other night. The fucking guy serving me had a mask on. Like, I would fire this guy. I would not ... Like, you can't-

    6. SRSteven Rinella1:11:25

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:11:25

       This, this is nonsense. Like, you can't be wearing a fucking mask. This is crazy.

    8. SRSteven Rinella1:11:29

       I read a op-ed in the Free Press the other day. Um, you know, Bari Weiss's publication?

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:11:34

       Yeah.

    10. SRSteven Rinella1:11:34

        Um, and it was about when they had rolled back, uh, they had rolled back, um, masking laws. I kind of forgot all about this. Like, you used to not be able to run around with a mask on.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:11:47

        Yeah.

    12. SRSteven Rinella1:11:47

        'Cause of, like, criminal activity.

Episode duration: 2:47:53