EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,016 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- LFLex Fridman
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- SPSpeaker
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) So, Jamie, what was your question? (laughs)
- SPSpeaker
(laughs) It was to Lex, but it was really, like... 'Cause he, I wouldn't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hardcore science question.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Based on physics.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- SPSpeaker
In theory, if you were in space-
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
... and you maybe ejaculated, is it possible that the ejaculate would propel you backwards? Like, send you, you know, like, is it propulsion? Is there enough p- power in there to propel you?
- LFLex Fridman
There's only one way to find out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because you need to say-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it depends on how long you hold it in for, right?
- SPSpeaker
Right. But you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, if you didn't jerk off for, like, four months and then you had, like, the mother load.
- SPSpeaker
Just don't have... You need something to go one way so you go the other way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And Lex had an answer, but I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's the answer?
- LFLex Fridman
Well-
- SPSpeaker
Well, he had a thought, I guess.
- JRJoe Rogan
What if you blow out at the same time? (blows)
- SPSpeaker
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- SPSpeaker
I, I think that in space, the, the, like, the biodynamics of the liquids is different. It's, I, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I think there's, it's actually difficult to have sex in space and to get people pregnant in space. That's what I read.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Mm-hmm. …
- LFLex Fridman
your land as- as Kyiv and as these, the greatest, the biggest battles of all time were in this land. The Battle of Kyiv, the- the Battle of Stalingrad, the Battle of Moscow, s- we're talking about hundreds of thousand, millions of people just slaughtering each other. And- and the way Hitler, of course, approached the battle and so did Stalin is nobody surrenders. It's, there's no, uh, it's all in slaughter. It doesn't matter if it's winter, it doesn't matter if there's no guns, it doesn't matter, it's just ev- victory or death on both sides. And so it's just brutal war. And so this is the land, right? This is-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
And I have, you know for a lot of people in this land, this history is part of them, it's- it's part, uh, it's part of their blood. They- they remember these struggles, they remember this- this political, this geopolitical, this military, this social, this- this is real. This is like imagine the e- it's 'cause recent, imagine the United States living maybe a few decades after the Civil War. You remember, you-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
You remember the- the- the f- you know, you have relatives that died, you have, you remember the real (laughs) the real hatred, the real tensions, the real- the real battles. So yeah, it was, uh, it was surreal to be back there and to try to do what I was doing, which is, um, to push for peace. Since there's probably a lot to say, uh, about this war, I should say that I interviewed Vladimir Zel- Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and I will be traveling to Russia to interview Vladimir Putin. Uh, and I, the, (laughs) I'm aware of the risks, I accept the risks and the goal, the mission is to just push for peace, to do my small part in pushing for peace. And that's what I was trying to do in this conversation. And it re- it required just a huge amount of preparation. For people who don't know, maybe I'll lay out w- where there was opportunities for peace. So since the beginning of the war, February 24th, 2022, I think there was three moments to make peace. Uh, from the perspective of Ukraine, you want to make peace, uh, from strength, so when you're in a position of strength. The first time to make peace was, uh, March and April of 2022, uh, when the Ukrainian forces were able to successfully defend the north, defend Kyiv. There was this h- huge optimism, uh, this belief that we're, we pushed back this gigantic Russian military. That's a place for leverage and the confidence both of the US funding, the European militaries, and the Ukrainian military that we can win this. This is when you make peace, when there is, um, when there is a perception in the reality of strength. The second time was in the fall of 2022, when, uh, there was a successful counteroffensive by the Ukrainian forces that recaptured, uh, Kharkiv and Kherson, this is, um, the south and the east of Ukraine, and there was this real sense...... that we could, uh, that the Ukrainian forces can defeat the Russian forces. Huge optimism. Uh, a lot of pressure from the US to, to make peace then. This is the strength and perhaps the weakness of, uh, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who I do th- think is a historic figure and a great leader-
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs)
- LFLex Fridman
... is that he, one, deeply emotionally feels the suffering of the people and the loss that war creates. And he single-handedly has to unite the nation and carry the will of a people and the morale of a people. He has to lift the morale of a people. And that kind of man struggles to make peace, because he understa- he, he wants justice, not peace. And so from a position of strength there, he wants to go further, recapture all of the land that he sees belongs to Ukraine. But that's exactly when you make peace. And so his very strength, the man that stayed in Kiev that said, you know, "Fuck you. We're not going to, uh... We're going to win this," that kind of man that lifted a whole nation, that united a whole nation, that man i- is also struggled to make peace. And so the third time to make peace after a- after all of that, the Russian military regrouped and has been, um, uh, capturing land gradually. And so the, the third time to make peace is now. Uh, the Trump administration, there's a momentum. They want to make peace. He want, he- he's a, a great deal maker. He wants to end wars in all parts of the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he's made the deal in Gaza now.
- LFLex Fridman
Made the deal in Gaza, and that's a super complicated situation too, because they made a ceasefire deal with the hostages. But like, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
But isn't, but isn't it amazing that the Biden administrated... Biden administration had two years, couldn't get anything done, and the Trump kids had done it in a day? He was saying that he was gonna be able to do that, and everybody dismissed it.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. And I, I think there's a, a political battle now taking credit for who made the ceasefire, which I think is silly. It's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course you're gonna have that.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Biden is the president.
- LFLex Fridman
Uh, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
He's still the president for another few days.
- LFLex Fridman
The, the, the point is with Donald Trump, there's a real will and a momentum to make peace. There's a respect. There's a fear. There's, you know, uh, whatever you think about Donald Trump, he is this person that world leaders respect in, in the full meaning of the word respect, not like admire, but fear. Uh, I think both Zelenskyy and Putin fear Donald Trump, and that's a great person to then make peace, because he has the leverage. All of them believe, Putin and Zelenskyy, that Trump can do some crazy shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he probably would, but he doesn't want to.
- LFLex Fridman
Right, he doesn't want to.
- JRJoe Rogan
This is the one difference.
- LFLex Fridman
And, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a v- very unique position that he's in where they're afraid of him, but yet he wants peace.
- LFLex Fridman
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know?
- LFLex Fridman
And so this is the time. And if you don't make peace now, what's going to happen is the funding from US and the support from US is going to dwindle gradually. And, uh, Putin is willing and able to just wait and to let the war continue for months and for years. And meanwhile, people are dying every single day.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Thousands of people. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
What's horrible about this war too is there's GoPro footage.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a lot of cellphone footage. There's a lot of GoPro foot- I've watched too much of it unfortunately. (sighs) But it's, uh, it's rough, man. It's, it's a horrible war, and it's a war that's so confusing over here for, especially to the uninitiated, for the people that are just like kind of reading the newspaper and getting a, a s- sort of a cursory understanding of what happened. Russia invaded. Why? You know, what did they do? And then you, you got to get into the whole US backed coup in 2014. And then you have to think about NATO and the agreement that was made, the fall of, um, uh, you know, when, um, the wall came down in Berlin, the agreement that NATO would not push forth and move closer to Russia, which they violated over and over and over again. The whole thing is so complicated, uh, that it takes forever just to sort of get an understanding of the pieces that are involved. Forget about like who's responsible for what, but just like how many different things are happening, you know, simultaneously that are, that are forcing Putin's hand, now Zelenskyy's hand. And it's just... To be on this side of the world watching it take place, it's almost unbelievable. It's so hard to believe that Russia and Ukraine, uh, which were both a part of the Soviet Union just not that long ago, well, during my lifetime, now they're at war.
- 30:00 – 45:00
So he spoke with…
- LFLex Fridman
that's his main language. He sp- he speaks it with his wife, with his whole staff, with all of this. This, this is his language. Uh, it's just that now the Ukrainian language has become a symbol of independence, so they're fighting for their independence, for their sovereignty. I understand it, but you know, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
So he spoke with you in Ukrainian?
- LFLex Fridman
He kept going back and forth, but yeah, most of the powerful things were said in Ukrainian, so I'm listening to an interpreter through a shitty headset. The interpreter's not...... forgive me, said the interpreter was not very good. He's delayed. There's noise.
- JRJoe Rogan
God, but wouldn't it make more sense if he spoke to you in a language that you understand?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. This, we really tried. But this is a man, once again, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
He's a, he's the leader of a nation in a time of war and he's not stylistically who he is. Like, he's all in. This is like a Braveheart type character.
- JRJoe Rogan
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- SPSpeaker
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- LFLex Fridman
Uh, I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is so crazy, because he started his career as a comedian.
- LFLex Fridman
Right, right. I mean, there's ... You never know, (sighs) you never know who the, who the leaders are that step up. I think, you know, a lot of people sort of say that it's trivial that he stayed in Kiev when the, the Russian military invaded. To me, it's not trivial, trivial at all. I think that's a truly heroic act. To stay when you know, when nobody knows what's going to happen and, uh, all the experts are saying Kiev is going to be taken. To stay as a leader in that same place where you were the night before, like working, and not flee when everybody, the CIA, everybody's telling you to flee. To stay there like a bad motherfucker and actually go outside and film yourself speaking to the nation that, "We're going to s- win this. We're going to hold strong." That's a, that's an insane thing to do, and maybe it does require, like ... It's a Trump level insanity, right? It's similar to me to the Trump standing up when there's still bullets flying and saying, "Fight, fight, fight," right? That's a ... Where's that come from? I don't know. But most people don't have that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- LFLex Fridman
And it's nice when we s- it was refreshing. Uh, it was refreshing when you see that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Like, "Holy fuck, yes. We want that guy."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
And he really united a nation. You know, the, the nation was fractured. He was actually not popular at all up to that war, because, uh, he, the policies he was trying were not working.
- JRJoe Rogan
What policies specifically?
- LFLex Fridman
So his, uh ... (laughs) So the stuff that was working, I don't know the internals of the, uh, Ukrainian politics that well. But, uh, so he won in 2019 based on his desire to fight corruption and to modernize, uh, Ukrainian digital system, which he did very successfully. It's actually super interesting. You can, um ... They have a c- app called Diia which your passport, all your identifications, all app- app-ified, which I don't understand why they, U-, United States doesn't have that. You can, like, update your license. You can get your license, uh, like instantly. Th- so it's like, um, the 21st century version of what government should work, um, like. The reason they did that is it's a way to fight corruption. It's a way, like you, if ... Whenever you have paperwork, there's, uh, a place for corruption to seep in. So he was very serious about fighting corruption. And that's the other thing is there is corruption in Ukraine. There's not as much as people perceive and it's, but it's a serious problem, especially with the w-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it less now than before?
- LFLex Fridman
What I, oh, I, see I, I want, I want to be careful here because I don't th- like it's very difficult to know. The perception, there's a serious concern about corruption. In a time of war there's always going to be more corruption. United States spent $9 trillion on the war in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Middle East. After 9/11, on that part of the world they spent $9 trillion and it's growing. Do you think all that money ... You've had a lot of guests on this program talking about how that money was used. There's a lot of shady shit that happened.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- LFLex Fridman
W-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
War breeds corruption.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
This is one of the reasons you should be concerned about the military-industrial complex is 'cause it, that money's just not used well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- LFLex Fridman
Uh, but, th- that's all ... That's a discussion ... The reality of corruption in Ukraine is it should be dealt with after you make peace. All of the problems, the, the elections were suspended too, the ideas of de- uh, democracy. There is censorship in Ukraine now. All of those ideas cannot be ... All of those things cannot be fixed until the war is ended. The reason there is censorship now in Ukraine is because it's, it's, uh, it's a war. Like you can't ... Uh, the ideas of democracy, in part, have to be suspended during a war to effectively fight that war. This is, uh, this is the whole idea of martial law. The United States has this. You, you don't-
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Yeah, I mean, y-…
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, I try to pay attention to the news, I try to, uh, pay attention to whatever controversial ideas are out there and try to see what I think. But I don't think it's good to, to dive into social media all day. I think it's uniquely bad. And I think so many people are involved in it and they don't realize that they're, they're poisoning their brain, just like they would poison their body if they were eating junk food all day. I think it's genuinely bad for you.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, I mean, y- and you and I, uh, and, and also in a particular, you know, doing a podcast, and we're also very different human beings. I would say your psychologic- your psychological fortitude is, is, uh, pretty strong. Like, and I, I'm more, I wear my heart on my sleeve maybe a little bit more, and when if I, like... Shit gets to me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
And, and, you know, when you try to put compassion out there-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
... in the world the way, uh, in the way I did, especially with this conversation with Zelenskyy, the attacks, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
You just have to recognize who the kind of people that are doing that are.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, those are just really weak people, really weak-
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... psychologically damaged, mentally ill people that are probably medicated.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) I, sort of to push back, I think some of them are actually, uh, good, sophisticated people, they're just acting not their best selves. Like, I've seen this, there, there's people that are like, I know them personally, and online they just, like, the worst-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
... shit comes out of them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
It doesn't make-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's because they're mentally ill. And they're-
- LFLex Fridman
Well, but then all of us are a bit mentally ill, right? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, well, we're all a little mentally ill.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, no one is enlightened that I've met.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, no.
- JRJoe Rogan
I've never met one person who's perfect.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? I don't think it's possible with this journey that we're on, as these meat vehicles, these soul-carrying meat vehicles navigating a very confusing world, I don't think it's possible to be perfect. But you can have a desire to be a good person. And some people don't have that. And the excuse that they always use is, uh, I mean, this is the Donald Trump excuse. You do anything you can to stop Hitler, you know? Right?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And this is, this is why they want to conflate and they always wanna pretend that everyone's Hitler. The, the problem with that is it just, after a while, it's crying wolf, and people are like, "Oh, this is a bullshit game you're playing, and you're just using it as an excuse." And Elon's talked about this a lot, about... And he's, he's absolutely correct, is that people use, um, woke ideology as an excuse to be an asshole. And it's really just people that are assholes that are attaching themselves to things that make them feel righteous. And so they wrap themselves in this idea to, to give them virtue and to allow them to say the most awful things about other people-
- LFLex Fridman
It's true.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that have different perspectives. And then just by nature, if you're doing that, you're doing the wrong thing. You're a bad person. You can justify it all you want and you can find people that agree with you all you want, but those people are also, are on the right tra- or the wrong track, rather. The people that are listening to you and agreeing with you, they're on the wrong track. They're the wrong track if we want to be collectively a kind, compassionate, cohesive society, a community of human beings that all live together. That's totally possible. If you can do it in small groups of people, you can do it in enormous groups of people. It just has to be an ethic that gets promoted. It has to be something that you, you see people that you admire adhere to, and, and you do it as well. Whenever someone-... goes outside of that. And whenever someone starts m- making horrific, unfounded personal attacks because someone has a different political ideology, or, you know, just g- going after them every day, all day long, like, you're just broken. You're just, you're on the wrong path, period. And intelligent, aware people that have control of their emotions recognize that, and they're not gonna take your perspective seriously. So, you're gonna be less and less effective with what you do.
- LFLex Fridman
And in general, the failure mode is to paint the world, to draw a line between good and evil.
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Is that true? Is…
- SPSpeaker
they could get sued. The reason this accuser is not heard from is because, according to The New Yorker, she tried desperately to meet with Joni Ernst on the committee, and Joni Ernst turned her down. So the reason that she has not been able to come out publicly is because she has an NDA, and even privately, she could not meet with a senator on this committee, who's also a rape survivor, to share her story, because that rape survivor did not want to hear from a woman who was going to put her potentially in a position to vote against Pete Hegseth. Pete Hegseth has written himself while at Princeton-... saying that women who are passed out, if you have sex with them while they're unconscious, that's not really rape. Right? Now, the American military-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that true? Is that written somewhere?
- SPSpeaker
... has a tremendous-
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know.
- SPSpeaker
Uh, it doesn't sound true, but yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's hard to say. But scoot ahead to where they des- start discussing the tattoo.
- SPSpeaker
I don't, I don't know where it's gonna go.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, uh, it's in the same flow. It's, uh, not that far away.
- SPSpeaker
This is definitely not a good format, though.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- SPSpeaker
... assault program, they used to be.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, at least they're letting her talk.
- SPSpeaker
You can just go have your way with that.
- SPSpeaker
Not really.
- SPSpeaker
So, I don't know which soldiers you've been talking to who think Pete Hegseth is a great thing for the military. There are not o- there's not one woman out there who cares about being assaulted on deployment who thinks that this is the person that needs to be in charge of the United States military. And as for the cross that you talked about, yes-
- JRJoe Rogan
Here it is.
- SPSpeaker
... Deus Vult, which is the cross that he has and the slogan that he has-
- SPSpeaker
Well, Deus Vult is a phrase. The Jerusalem Cross-
- SPSpeaker
It is an old Christian cross. The part, the par- the phrase, excuse me, the phrase. The phrase, however, was uttered by crusaders as they were slaughtering Jews and Muslims during the Second Crusades specifically. So, it's not just a random cross.
- SPSpeaker
That, that isn't, that isn't true.
- SPSpeaker
It's not just a random phrase.
- SPSpeaker
That isn't true.
- SPSpeaker
It is a phra-
- SPSpeaker
The phra- the phrase-
- SPSpeaker
It's not true.
- SPSpeaker
Th- that is true.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is true.
- SPSpeaker
The phrase, the phrase was uttered after the Council of Clermont when Pope Urban II declared the crusade. And it was actually probably, "Dieu le voule," but it's, it's been rendered in-
- SPSpeaker
And-
- SPSpeaker
... Latin as Deus Vult.
- 1:15:00 – 1:19:45
Right. …
- LFLex Fridman
E- b- b- but just right off the bat, it's all awful, all horrible. I wish no one ever got killed by anybody ever. It's all awful. All war is hell. All of it, all's hell. There was so much of it going on throughout human history that women would... There was a survival mechanism in accepting this conqueror as your new husband when he slaughtered your husband, is the only way your genes passed on. So, these women were able... I mean, even if they said they fell in love with him, you know, even if they did marry him, even if they were happy to marry him, there was, like, al- almost an evolutionary requirement because we slaughtered each other so much that if you wanted your genes to pass on, you had to accept the slaughterer of your former mate. And then in modern-day society, we would call that rape.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- LFLex Fridman
But it's, it's a, it's, uh, we have to use different words for that time-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- LFLex Fridman
... because there is rape where as, like, violent, rape as part of war, as part of a mechanism of terror.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think even as just part of society up until, like, a few thousand years ago or even a few hundred years ago, I think human beings, you know, like... I've had a bunch of friends who've served overseas and the stories they tell from Afghanistan, especially with the child raping, is fucking bone-curdling. Like, you, you kee- blood-curdling, just, like, you just wanna leave the room when they're talking. You don't even wanna hear this. You don't wanna think that this is happening and it's happening right now because it's an old culture. It's an old culture and it's separate from the rest of the world. It's very remote, very difficult to access. You have warlords and herders who are living in these nomadic tribes to this day, not much different than when Alexander the Great conquered it.
- LFLex Fridman
So, I sh- I should say that Genghis Khan, from everything I understand was, was not progressive, but he was very pragmatic. This is why he-
- JRJoe Rogan
Allowed all religions.
- LFLex Fridman
... allows all religions.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
Which is, Thomas Jefferson, I should say, r- deeply admired Genghis Khan for this, the freedom of religion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
And he didn't just say freedom of religion, it's freedom of an individual to practice any religion they want, which is a, f- it's like individualism. It's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
It's a really revolutionary badass idea for that time, for that place.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he was wec- he recognized strength and the v- the value of accepting strength and taking... And there's strength in unity, there's strength in community. If people can worship whatever they want, but all be united under one banner-
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... is, it's better than dividing everybody. But-
- LFLex Fridman
Like, in the feminist thing that I mentioned, he would put women in power. Why?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
Is he a feminist? No. He understood that women are able to ru- Men conquer better, in his perspective, and women rule better because they keep a stable society.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
So, he would do, he would, uh, marry the, a woman to the king of the place and then send the king off to fight-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
... the ruler to fight, knowing for sure he's going to die. But the woman is now ruling and then there's a lot of, like, uh, progressive things about, like, they were allowed to show their face, especially in the, in the Persian lands where they conquered, like, they're allowed to wear these fancy, uh, headdresses and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
... which is, you know, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
So they could floss a little.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Chicks got excited about that.
Episode duration: 3:21:19
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