Joe Rogan Experience #2274 - Mike Baker

1. 0:00 – 2:15

   Mike Baker’s Middle East trip: recreating Lawrence of Arabia’s 1917 desert trek for a UK Special Forces charity

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music)

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Mike Baker.

   4. MBMike Baker0:14

      Oh.

   5. NANarrator0:14

      Good to see you, my friend.

   6. MBMike Baker0:15

      It's good to be seen. Thank you, Mr. Rogan.

   7. NANarrator0:18

      (laughs)

   8. MBMike Baker0:18

      (laughs) Um, thank you.

   9. NANarrator0:19

      You taking notes already? (laughs)

   10. MBMike Baker0:20

       I am. "He said, 'Good to see you.'" Yeah, I know. I don't know what I, I do this, right? Yeah.

   11. NANarrator0:26

       So, tell everybody what you were doing in the Middle East, 'cause it's pretty crazy.

   12. MBMike Baker0:29

       Oh, thank you.

   13. NANarrator0:29

       Pretty interesting.

   14. MBMike Baker0:30

       Yeah, thank you for that. Um, look, it all started with, uh, some, uh, some colleagues of mine from the UK Special Forces Club. And these guys are tremendous, right? But Howard Ledum and some others who came up with an idea. They said, "Look, we have to do something to help the Benevolent Fund," which is for the UK Special Forces. It's like, um, uh, it's like Wounded Warriors here in the States. But, and I can say this because I'm a dual citizen with, uh, the UK, um, the British don't tend to be very good at raising money or- or asking for money for very important causes. So, here in the US where you've got 100,000 different, you know, groups that are advocating for veterans, over there it's not the case, right? But they have the same need, right? And they have all these- these wonderful people in their families. So, the idea was, what can we do? A big event, something massive that can- that can really help to raise funds and awareness for the Special Forces Benevolent Fund. They came up with this crazy idea at the time, still crazy, to recreate, um, a 1917, uh, epic journey that Lawrence of Arabia did through what was considered the unpassable deserts of Saudi and Jordan. To go from essentially northwest Saudi through these unpassable deserts and then into Jordan and then down to Aqaba to rout the Turks, who at the time controlled the area. And, um, with a small Arab army led by several sheikhs, uh, and Lawrence, they did this trek of about 1,100 kilometers. Um, took them several months because they had to stop along the way, plus they were fighting Turks along the way. So, um, we took off in January, mid-January, five riders, 10 camels, and an incredible support team.

   15. NANarrator2:13

       (laughs)

   16. MBMike Baker2:13

       An incredible support team.

   17. NANarrator2:14

       Can I just stop you there?

   18. MBMike Baker2:15

       Yeah.

2. 2:15 – 4:21

   Camel-riding reality check: training, discomfort, and why everyone sits sideways

   1. NANarrator2:15

      Is this i- your first time riding a camel?

   2. MBMike Baker2:17

      Well, we went out in December, spent about a week and a half. Howard, uh, lives out there, as do, uh, uh, one of the other fellas. And, um ...

   3. NANarrator2:27

      So you had to go through camel riding training?

   4. MBMike Baker2:28

      Camel riding training. You, th- that's exactly what we did. Yeah, oh. (laughs)

   5. NANarrator2:32

      (laughs)

   6. MBMike Baker2:32

      Oh, god. So there we are.

   7. NANarrator2:34

      What is it like riding a camel?

   8. MBMike Baker2:35

      It is not comfortable in any fashion. It's not like a horse. A horse has ... You can fall into sort of a rhythm and a horse has a much smoother gait. Um, you know, so the camel basically all you're trying to do ... There's- there's the- there's the crew. Uh, wonderful guys.

   9. NANarrator2:49

      They're up so high.

   10. MBMike Baker2:49

       Howard, James, myself, Tommo. Uh, there's, uh, there's Craig in the back. Uh, an amazing crew. I've- I've rarely worked with- with guys that are just so impressive. And- and- and again, going with the support team, everybody that was on that group, a small group of- of eight or- or nine folks, um ...

   11. NANarrator3:05

       Why does everybody ride with one leg to the side like that?

   12. MBMike Baker3:09

       Um, (laughs) it's essentially a comfort issue. And because you'll notice there's no ... Those- those, they're not really saddles, they're called shadads, uh, that sit on top of the- the hump. That's a Saudi shaddad. The Omani shaddad is different, it sits behind the hump and is even less comfortable.

   13. NANarrator3:24

       (laughs)

   14. MBMike Baker3:24

       Um, and now, these things were probably designed some 2,000 years ago and they've never felt the need to improve them. They're basically just some wood, uh, you know, tied together. And then you try to throw a couple of things on top of this piece of wood to make it comfortable. And I- I think all the Bedouins and others were laughing at us because we just kept piling blankets on to try to see if we couldn't ... Yeah, it was- it was tough. And, uh, and so ass blisters are a real thing.

   15. NANarrator3:48

       Oh, yeah.

   16. MBMike Baker3:49

       Yeah. So anyway, they- that's what- that's what- that's what you see there. But there's no stirrups on these things. Like a horse, you know ...

   17. NANarrator3:54

       Right.

   18. MBMike Baker3:54

       You're riding on the saddle, you got stirrups.

   19. NANarrator3:56

       So you're just hanging on.

   20. MBMike Baker3:57

       And it takes the pressure off your legs. You're just hanging on, so you don't want to ride with one leg on either side because it's just not- it's just not comfortable. So you hitch your leg over the- the front, um, and then you- you kind of put your leg or your foot behind the other leg.

   21. NANarrator4:09

       Is it because they're too wide?

   22. MBMike Baker4:11

       Um ...

   23. NANarrator4:12

       Is that why you don't want to ride one leg on the other side, or is it just a ball buster literally?

   24. MBMike Baker4:16

       Well, I'd say, I'd say it's a ball buster, uh, particularly if that shaddad shifts and it starts to, like, lean forward.

   25. NANarrator4:20

       Oh.

3. 4:21 – 6:03

   Injury and tapping out early: the risk of dismounts and the grind of the desert

   1. MBMike Baker4:21

      And then suddenly, like there's these- these large dowels in the front and large dowel in the back, you know, they kind of basically look like big wooden dildos on this shaddad. And so if that shaddad shifts forward as it did on occasion, you're just- you're- your package is just jammed against that thing. And you have to cover ... Th- these guys, look, I got injured. Uh, I had some soft muscle injury and- and, uh, there's- there's the crew walking through. Um, and I tore some muscles in my rib cage during the-

   2. NANarrator4:47

      During just riding?

   3. MBMike Baker4:48

      No. It was a rather, uh, inelegant, uh, dismount-

   4. NANarrator4:52

      Oh.

   5. MBMike Baker4:52

      ... from the camel. And so I twisted really badly and then went the other way, and then the next thing you know, I'd- I had, uh, fucked up some, uh, the muscles along my obliques and then rib cage area. And so I spent the next couple of days, we had a team medic, uh, Jed, a wonderful guy, great sense of humor, as did they all. And he eventually got tired of me, like, asking him for painkillers and anti-inflammatories. Um, and so eventually I had to tap out, which was, uh, more painful probably than- than the actual injuries. And the guys just continued to grind it out. 25-

   6. NANarrator5:27

      How far was left when you had to tap out?

   7. MBMike Baker5:29

      Oh, I was- I was in the first 25% of the- of the journey.

   8. NANarrator5:32

      Oh, wow.

   9. MBMike Baker5:32

      So I had to ... And- and then I went back for the, uh, for the end, for the arrival into Aqaba. There's the whole crew right there. Just, I- I just can't say enough about these- these people. Um, tw- again, 25, 26 days, longer than that, actually a month out in really bad conditions. People think, "Well, it's the deserts," right? Well, it's called the unpassable deserts for a reason. Massive sandstorms, freezing temperatures at night, bitter cold. And we were sleeping in one-man tents. And, um, then you'd get up, you'd-... you'd get the camels ready-

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:02

       How many-

   11. MBMike Baker6:03

       ... you know.

4. 6:03 – 7:38

   Logistics and route mapping: support vehicles, wells, and why the Turks never expected the approach

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:03

      ... su- how much supplies did you bring?

   2. MBMike Baker6:05

      Well-

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:05

      Did you have a supply camel?

   4. MBMike Baker6:07

      We had a, we had a... Land Rover did a wonderful job of helping to sponsor this, so, uh, they provided, uh, vehicles that the support team used to kind of trail and then get ahead-

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:19

      Oh, okay.

   6. MBMike Baker6:19

      ... and, and help to, to establish the next... And we had, we had, uh... Howard and Craig had done the, uh, the recce, so we ni- we had the camps mapped out. Because this is a long trek, 1,100 kilometers, and, um, and so they were able to, to supply and, and do all the work that kept these guys moving forward. And-

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:40

      Imagine doing that-

   8. MBMike Baker6:41

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:41

      ... without them.

   10. MBMike Baker6:42

       Oh, it would, it would have been, it... It wouldn't have been impossible, but it, they'd still be out there schlepping.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       You'd have-

   12. MBMike Baker6:47

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       Jesus, you'd had to b- bring several camels just to carry your food and water.

   14. MBMike Baker6:51

       Yeah. No, it's, it's exactly right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       Because you're not... There's no water out there, right?

   16. MBMike Baker6:55

       Uh, no. No. I mean, there's, there's, there's-

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:57

       Nothing? Do you find a spring occasionally?

   18. MBMike Baker6:58

       Yeah. You, you could... You, you pass through a, a handful of areas near... Small. I mean, when I'm saying small, I mean, like, there's nothing there, little tiny village. Maybe there's a mosque, and the mosque would have a water supply, so you could stop and, and, and, uh, maybe refill, let the camels drink. Um-

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:12

       Are they getting water from the ground or are they getting water from... Are they bringing it in?

   20. MBMike Baker7:16

       They're getting it from a well. Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:18

       Oh, okay.

   22. MBMike Baker7:18

       From, from a well. So they have, they have... I, I mean, because they live, you know... Talking thousands of years, they've figured out where the wells are. And part of this, you know, from 1917, it loo- look, the Turks never expected these guys to come from this direction, 'cause who's going to do that?

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:30

       Right.

   24. MBMike Baker7:30

       And they did it. These guys all did it. I was just, I was just honored to be a part of it, even though I had to tap out, which was... Goddamn, that was frustrating.

5. 7:38 – 11:48

   Map walkthrough: Al Wajh to Aqaba, desolation, wadis, and flash-flood terrain

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:38

      Jamie, can you show me what that looks like on a map? All right, it's February. And by now, 80% of people have probably abandoned their New Year's resolutions, and it makes sense. Life can get crazy and all the sudden you don't have the time. But one easy habit to stick with is AG1. It's an easy, realistic habit that you can make to benefit your whole body health. AG1 makes hard-to-get micronutrients easy to get and replaces multiple vitamins and supplements with just one scoop. You just mix it in some cold water, take a nice moment in the morning to do your body right. And honestly, it tastes pretty good. It's not easy to pack this many high-quality ingredients with this much nutrient density, but AG1 makes it happen without added sugars or artificial sweeteners ever. AG1 is a great way to invest in your health now and in the long run, which is why I've partnered with them for so long. Try AG1 and get a free bottle of vitamin D3 K2 and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription at DrinkAG1.com/JoeRogan. That's a $76 value gift for free when you go to DrinkAG1.com/JoeRogan. Check it out. Like what that area looks like?

   2. MBMike Baker8:49

      Yeah, I should have, I should have included a, a map of the, the route itself. Um-

   3. NANarrator8:54

      Can you also just show, like, tell me where to look?

   4. MBMike Baker8:55

      Um, look for Al Wajh, Al Wajh, Saudi, um, on, on the, on the coast. Sort of Northwest Saudi. Um, and, um-

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:09

      Look at Jamie spelling it correctly and everything.

   6. NANarrator9:11

      (laughs)

   7. MBMike Baker9:11

      This guy, this guy's crazy.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:12

      Pretty close.

   9. MBMike Baker9:12

      Look at that. He... No, he... It's right there, right there at the top.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:17

       So-

   11. MBMike Baker9:17

       So we, we started at, in Al Wajh. Um, and then... Yeah, there you go. There you go. No, you click out.

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:23

       Yeah.

   13. MBMike Baker9:23

       And then you start, you start heading, uh, north. You start heading northeast. You can see Jordan is up there above that area. You, you start heading sort of on a diagonal, um, northeast. Uh, you pass through all... (laughs) Just look at it. It's just like, "What the hell?" And you keep going, you keep going. Eventually you get... If you, if you, uh, z- zoom out a little bit so you'll see the, the border with Jordan. Okay, you go up, you pass... Keep, keep going in that direction and you'll see-

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:50

       That whole place looks inhospitable from the map.

   15. MBMike Baker9:52

       Th- there's just not a lot there. And then you come up to where Jordan is. But anyway, at the end of the day, you see Aqaba. We came down through Jordan and into Aqaba, which is at the tip there. Right there, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:02

       Oh.

   17. MBMike Baker10:02

       Which is where the fort was, which is where they routed the Turks and then eventually that, that created all sorts of opportunities for the Arab states.

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:08

       Scroll back up again. Look at this whole area. There's fucking no green. (laughs)

   19. MBMike Baker10:12

       No, no, there's none. None.

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       There's just tiny parcels of semi-green areas.

   21. MBMike Baker10:16

       Yeah. No, there's, there's, there's... When, when I say it's desolate and there's nothing, um, there's, there's nothing. You go-

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:22

       Jamie, zoom back out again.

   23. NANarrator10:23

       Yep.

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:23

       Look how wild that looks. Like, what happened?

   25. MBMike Baker10:28

       So these, these, these, uh, these folks-

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:31

       Doesn't that all look washed out, Jamie? This is all Randall Carlson stuff, right?

   27. NANarrator10:34

       Yeah, it is. I'm looking for that stuff now.

   28. MBMike Baker10:34

       Yeah, and we went, uh, went through the, the Royal Reserve, uh, with... The Saudis were very good and the Jordanians were amazing as well-

   29. NANarrator10:41

       Like a basin or something.

   30. MBMike Baker10:41

       ... uh, in supporting us.
6. 11:48 – 17:11

   Fundraising pitch and a pivot into politics: USAID spending, DEI backlash, and corporate hesitation

   1. MBMike Baker11:48

      Walking was comfortable enough. But you have to, you have... To cover the distance, right? And the trot on a camel is, is not...... comfortable, right? And so it was, it, it, a- a- anyway, I- I just can't say enough good things about these people. Um, but the cause, the UK Special Forces Club Benevolent Fund, if people want to go and read more about this, they can go to, uh, what is it? Www.sfcbf-

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:13

      That's how old you are. You keep-

   3. MBMike Baker12:14

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:14

      ... using the Ws. Everybody else gave up on-

   5. MBMike Baker12:16

      I guess I don't have to.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:17

      (laughs)

   7. MBMike Baker12:17

      I don't ... 'cause it ... so that's three Ws.

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      (laughs)

   9. MBMike Baker12:20

      And then ... (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:21

       Whoever used to say that. People used to say-

   11. MBMike Baker12:22

       It, it-

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:23

       ... http://.

   13. MBMike Baker12:24

       Yes, yes. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:24

       Remember those days?

   15. MBMike Baker12:25

       I still (laughs) , I still do, because I think that's what you have to do. So it's f ... uh, uh, sfcbf.org. You can go there, you check it out. And if you're so inclined, there's even a button you can click on to donate, even if it's a price of a cup of coffee. If you, if you get enough people putting in the price of a cup of coffee-

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:42

       Yeah.

   17. MBMike Baker12:42

       ... it makes a huge difference for these people. Um, but, uh, it was, it was an, uh, one of those bucket list items that I just can't describe enough.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:51

       When you see some of the things that USAID fund-

   19. MBMike Baker12:53

       Oh, gosh.

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:53

       ... does it get you upset that they don't fund things like this?

   21. MBMike Baker12:56

       Yeah. Yeah, it really does.

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:57

       It does, it does me too.

   23. MBMike Baker12:58

       Yeah, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       It does me too. It just, it's ... come on.

   25. MBMike Baker13:00

       Because this is, this is a direct ... right? As, as is Wounded Warriors.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       Yeah.

   27. MBMike Baker13:04

       As are all the other groups.

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   29. MBMike Baker13:05

       It's a direct way to help people, you know. A- a- and it's not like they're, they've got, you know, massive administrative costs, right? Like, like the government tends to.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:14

       Right, right.
7. 17:11 – 22:16

   DOGE, untraceable payments, and meme-coin chaos: accountability vs hype

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:11

      ... and they've found some really wild shit, like what was the $4.7 trillion in untraceable money?

   2. MBMike Baker17:20

      Oh, yeah, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:21

      I sent that to you, right?

   4. MBMike Baker17:22

      Yep, yeah, you did. Yeah, that was, that was, uh, Doge, you know, was, um, digging through, um, the ... you know, essentially the way that money is audited within the government. And they look at, um, the, the, the data sets and how things are divided and how you have to explain-

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:40

      I sent it to Jim.

   6. MBMike Baker17:40

      ... what's going on. And the idea is that there's, there, there's a lack of, of links to payments, outgoing payments, um, budget line items. So this payment goes out, what is it for, right? You ... I mean, it would be the same thing if you had a ... well, and I do, I have a business. And in that business, you have to know what you're spending your money on, right?

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:02

      Yeah.

   8. MBMike Baker18:02

      I mean, that's a logical thing. I'm not a rocket scientist. Um, but what they're saying is that they've, they've ... well, there you go.

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:09

      Yeah, here it is. So it's, "Treasury Access Symbol TAS is an identification code linking treasury payment to a budget line item, standard financial process. In the federal government, the TAS field was optional for $4.7 trillion in payments and was often left blank-" (laughs)

   10. MBMike Baker18:26

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:27

       "... making traceability almost impossible. As of Saturday, this is now a required field, increasing insight into where money is actually going." Um, thanks to US Treasury-

   12. MBMike Baker18:37

       Um, it would be like if I-

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:37

       "... for the great work."

   14. MBMike Baker18:38

       If I've got, if I, it would be like if I got my monthly, uh, reports, my monthly numbers from our finance director. Um, and I looked at it and there's the outgoing line, so I can see how much money's going out, but there's nothing that links it to where did it go. Did it go to pay a vendor? Did it go to pay rent? Did it go to pay staff? Did-

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:54

       Who bought a jet?

   16. MBMike Baker18:55

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:55

       (laughs)

   18. MBMike Baker18:55

       Who bought a jet? Yeah. By the way, when a company buys a jet, it's usually, that's a key fraud indicator, right?

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:02

       If a company buys a jet?

   20. MBMike Baker19:03

       If a company buys-

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:03

       All companies?

   22. MBMike Baker19:04

       Yeah, but not all companies.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:04

       The UFC bought a jet.

   24. MBMike Baker19:05

       Not all companies. Not- not-

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:06

       (laughs)

   26. MBMike Baker19:07

       (laughs)

   27. NANarrator19:07

       (laughs)

   28. MBMike Baker19:07

       Let me just, let me just make a note of the day, UFC, jet. Um, no it's, what I mean is, uh, obviously it's not like if it's Nike or, you know, an established-

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:15

       Right.

   30. MBMike Baker19:15

       ... you know, la- large business, but-
8. 22:16 – 31:59

   Billionaires, data access fears, and media narratives: Musk vs Bezos and ‘who already has access?’

   1. MBMike Baker22:16

      Well, that's the funny, w- w- that's the funny thing with him. I always think, like, right now, past couple of weeks in particular, seems like people are- are just losing their shit and dropping onto the fainting couch over the idea that he's accessing your- your- your private information, right? What's he gonna do? He's accessing your private information. You think, okay, well first of all, I don't think the guy is- is looking to scam you out of 500 bucks, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan22:36

      Right. But he...

   3. MBMike Baker22:36

      He's like, yeah. Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan22:37

      The- the argument's good. Like, he shouldn't be able to scan your information, but-

   5. MBMike Baker22:41

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan22:41

      ... also is there any evidence that he's doing that? And here's the other question. Who else has access to this? Right?

   7. MBMike Baker22:47

      He's just about every company out there.

   8. JRJoe Rogan22:48

      Well, it turns out, turns out a lot of people have access to this, even students that are interns, who work in the department have access to this.

   9. MBMike Baker22:56

      Yeah. Yeah. I think what they're doing is they're-

   10. JRJoe Rogan22:57

       They're making an argument.

   11. MBMike Baker22:58

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:58

       And it's a good one. Right?

   13. MBMike Baker23:00

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:00

       If you have a... Look, if he was evil.

   15. MBMike Baker23:01

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:02

       If you do have this evil billionaire who wants to control the world and has access to everyone's credit card and just steals all your money, or does whatever.

   17. MBMike Baker23:10

       Didn't that used to be Jeff Bezos? I thought, I thought he was the guy who they were focused on, who was the-

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:15

       Well, they were for a while.

   19. MBMike Baker23:17

       Yeah. Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:17

       But he's just balling. Jeff is just like hanging out on his yacht.

   21. MBMike Baker23:21

       (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:21

       He's banging his super hot wife.

   23. MBMike Baker23:23

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:23

       Like, he's having a good time.

   25. MBMike Baker23:24

       That sounds, that sounds a lot better than, like, chasing government waste and fraud.

   26. JRJoe Rogan23:28

       Yeah.

   27. MBMike Baker23:28

       Frankly. Yeah. I think Jeff's got it-

   28. JRJoe Rogan23:28

       And like, remember when Elon Musk was criticizing him for not working hard enough?

   29. MBMike Baker23:32

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:32

       I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute.
9. 31:59 – 38:06

   Culture wars, online mobs, and bathroom politics: empathy, attention economies, and divisions

   1. MBMike Baker31:59

      Oh, okay, yeah.

   2. JRJoe Rogan32:00

      "We are, you know, we're being, we're being pushed out of society. We're being told we don't exist." And then, you c- of course, you have to say you're an ally of the LBGTQ+AI.

   3. MBMike Baker32:09

      You have to be an ally. Yeah, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan32:11

      They're digging their heels in on all that stuff, though.

   5. MBMike Baker32:14

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan32:14

      Which is, it, that's not gonna win anymore. That's, that's too crazy.

   7. MBMike Baker32:17

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan32:17

      Even, like, kind, progressive people realize, like, you know, you've done a weird thing with, uh, with women's sports. You've done a weird thing with the safety of women-

   9. MBMike Baker32:27

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan32:27

       ... in bathrooms. And it's not to say that some of these people who are legitimate trans people, who really do just wanna use the women's room and be treated like a woman, that's true too. But you open the door for perverts, and you're not-

   11. MBMike Baker32:38

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan32:38

       ... admitting that. You open-

   13. MBMike Baker32:39

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:39

       ... the door. You're just allowing guys with beards and hard dicks-

   15. MBMike Baker32:42

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:42

       ... to wander around the women's room. And you-

   17. MBMike Baker32:43

       And how, how tough is it to just have a, have a, a, a, whatever, a unisex bathroom? Right? Most places, uh, a lot of places do, right? So, you go, fine, do, do that, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:51

       As long as it's not a big bathroom.

   19. MBMike Baker32:52

       It's like-

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:52

       The problem is, a group-

   21. MBMike Baker32:53

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:53

       ... if it's all single bathrooms-

   23. MBMike Baker32:55

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:55

       ... but that's not economically feasible-

   25. MBMike Baker32:57

       Right, right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:57

       ... at, like, a stadium.

   27. MBMike Baker32:58

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:58

       You know, and that's, that's where it becomes a problem. And then, it's also this, like, weird cultural line where people are like, "Which bathroom do you get to use?" And it's like (snorts) this is, like, a thing in Congress, right? 'Cause-

   29. MBMike Baker33:08

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:08

       ... they got one trans person in Congress, who, by the way, said that they do not want to use the women's room. So, it's not even an issue.
10. 38:06 – 42:00

    Deepfakes and AI fraud: when you can’t trust audio/video and authenticity must be embedded

    1. JRJoe Rogan38:06

       (laughs) And they, and me, and me and Jamie have to sort out, what the fuck is real now? It's so hard to tell. I see things from myself that aren't real.

    2. MBMike Baker38:15

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan38:15

       I saw me, um, doing... Or I didn't see me, I heard my voice over some narration of something, of some, uh, TikTok story, and I was like, "I never saw this."

    4. MBMike Baker38:25

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan38:25

       "I never... This is not me saying this." It's all done through AI. I'm like, "This is crazy."

    6. MBMike Baker38:30

       Yeah. You're a prime case study for the impact and effects of... And the, sort of the, the, um, you know, the downside of AI, right?

    7. JRJoe Rogan38:39

       Oh, for sure, with my voice.

    8. MBMike Baker38:40

       So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan38:41

       You know, I guess now with video as well, you know, if you wanted to have a podcast video of me doing something, like-

    10. MBMike Baker38:46

        Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan38:47

        Yeah, it's-

    12. MBMike Baker38:48

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan38:48

        It's pretty wild now that... (clears throat) I mean, we have a little bit of a problem where a bunch of people are selling, like, cheap things online and using my voice, and we have to get them removed.

    14. MBMike Baker38:56

        Okay, yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan38:57

        But that's just, you know, that's just opportunists that are taking advantage. You know, you're-

    16. MBMike Baker39:01

        Right.

    17. JRJoe Rogan39:01

        I'm selling protein powders that I've never seen before, all that kind of shit.

    18. MBMike Baker39:04

        Right.

    19. JRJoe Rogan39:04

        They're doing that with my voice.

    20. MBMike Baker39:06

        I mean, there's very few. We've talked about it before. There's very few, because the, the idea was always sort of detection, right? Okay, we gotta create better systems to detect deepfakes.

    21. JRJoe Rogan39:16

        Right.

    22. MBMike Baker39:17

        Um, and, but now I think the focus, the focus has rightly shifted from sort of the detection to more proactive, um, protection of material, right? So, so get it at the moment of creation.

    23. JRJoe Rogan39:30

        Right.

    24. MBMike Baker39:30

        Um, embed, uh, the ability within the, the video clip, the audio clip, whatever, to show that you've got, uh, proof of, of, uh, whatever you want to call it, reality, credibility, authenticity. And that's the way it's all going, because you, you just can't keep up with... If all you're doing is trying to create better systems to detect deepfakes, it's a losing game.

    25. JRJoe Rogan39:51

        Yeah.

    26. MBMike Baker39:51

        It's like, it's like battling terrorists, because you know, you're coming up with an IT to prevent a terrorist attack based on the last terrorist attack, and they're onto something else.

    27. JRJoe Rogan40:00

        Right.

    28. MBMike Baker40:00

        So, it's, it's an interesting world. There's not that many companies out there that are doing a great job of it, but, um, there are some.

    29. JRJoe Rogan40:06

        I think it's, it's gonna get to a point where it's impossible to tell. And I think that's not far away.

    30. MBMike Baker40:11

        I think we're there, honestly.
11. 42:00 – 46:47

    Europe’s free-speech crackdown and JD Vance at Munich: immigration, censorship, and political backlash

    1. MBMike Baker42:00

       The head of the Munich Security Conference literally cried after the speech when they were addressing, um, EU leaders following the speech, right? Talking about, you know, the impact and what it might have meant for US-EU relations and everything. Literally tears being shed over JD Vance's speech.

    2. JRJoe Rogan42:18

       What was it about his speech in particular that was offensive?

    3. MBMike Baker42:22

       Well, I think what they were anticipating at the Munich Security Conference was, he was going to come in, and he was going to talk about, obviously, the number one topic on the table for them was Ukraine. And you know, where are we going with that? Because obviously the EU leaders are now very concerned about US commitment to NATO. Uh, what is the Trump administration, you know, planning on doing in terms of, um, further support for Ukraine, um, really further support for NATO? Uh, are they looking to distance themselves? And Vance instead came in and didn't really focus on any of that shit. He turned it on, onto the European Union, into EU countries and the UK, UK in particular, talking about how...... th- you know, their biggest threat isn't necessarily Russia or China. Their biggest threat is what they're doing to themselves, in terms of suppressing free speech from all the various groups out there, including conservative groups, the far left, whatever, uh, determining that, you know, this, this type of speech is illegal. "We're gonna pursue you, we're gonna fine you, we're going to jail you." Um, armed raids against people that are, you know, pushing content online. Um, so he made it-

    4. JRJoe Rogan43:26

       Including anti-immigrant content, right?

    5. MBMike Baker43:28

       Anti-immigrant content.

    6. JRJoe Rogan43:29

       That's a big one.

    7. MBMike Baker43:29

       But to be fair, right, I mean, m-most of Europe at this point is pretty (laughs) fed up with the, the-

    8. JRJoe Rogan43:34

       Yeah.

    9. MBMike Baker43:34

       ... immigration policies that the, their leaders have-

    10. JRJoe Rogan43:36

        Which is why-

    11. MBMike Baker43:37

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan43:37

        ... they wanna suppress the, the dissent online.

    13. MBMike Baker43:39

        Exactly. So, yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan43:40

        They're not doing it because they genuinely think this is a moral and ethical thing to do.

    15. MBMike Baker43:44

        No.

    16. JRJoe Rogan43:44

        They're doing it because they sense an uprising.

    17. MBMike Baker43:46

        Yeah. And, and, a- and they rightly should.

    18. JRJoe Rogan43:47

        Yeah.

    19. MBMike Baker43:47

        Look, Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor, he's not getting reelected. And their election is coming up here in, shortly.

    20. JRJoe Rogan43:52

        Yeah.

    21. MBMike Baker43:52

        And, um, so he's not, it's, that, not gonna happen for him. Um, so I think, yeah, they're rightly, th, with... Not rightly, but they are concerned about, uh, their own political power. That's, that's not, yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan44:02

        That's what it is, and that's what people need to understand. It's not-

    23. MBMike Baker44:04

        It's not rocket science, yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan44:05

        It's not, it's not that the Europeans are the kinder, more progressive... No, there's like-

    25. MBMike Baker44:10

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JRJoe Rogan44:10

        They understand that it's coming.

    27. MBMike Baker44:12

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan44:12

        And they wanna do everything they can to stop it because most people are fed up.

    29. MBMike Baker44:15

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan44:16

        Mo- most people just wanna be left the fuck alone.
12. 46:47 – 1:03:32

    Gaza after Oct 7: Trump’s ‘own Gaza’ idea, Arab-state pressure, and the reality of reconstruction

    1. MBMike Baker46:47

       (laughs) You know what I love is, is they... I, I, I was just out in the Middle East, uh, for some, some things, including the, the, the amazing, uh, trek, uh, with the guys from the SF Club. And, um, it was, it... Right during the period of time when, uh, President Trump announced his idea during that press conference with Netanyahu-

    2. JRJoe Rogan47:05

       Mm-hmm.

    3. MBMike Baker47:05

       ... (clears throat) about, "Look, we're gonna, we're gonna own, the US is gonna own, uh, Gaza."

    4. JRJoe Rogan47:09

       Did you see the look on Netanyahu's face when he was saying that?

    5. MBMike Baker47:11

       Yes.

    6. JRJoe Rogan47:11

       Netanyahu's like-

    7. MBMike Baker47:12

       Which was priceless.

    8. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       ... "What in the fuck-"

    9. MBMike Baker47:14

       I know. And now-

    10. JRJoe Rogan47:15

        "... did I get into?"

    11. MBMike Baker47:15

        And now you know what they're all doing? The Israeli cabinet is fully on board with the idea, in part because I think they understand that, okay, look, this is probably not gonna happen, but if we take this position, right, it's, it's going to create m- chaos. It's gonna create some movement, right?

    12. JRJoe Rogan47:30

        Oh, yeah.

    13. MBMike Baker47:30

        And maybe that leads to something of interest. And I think when (laughs) being out in the Middle East, when that idea came out and hearing some of the responses from, from people out there was-

    14. JRJoe Rogan47:39

        Oh...

    15. MBMike Baker47:39

        ... was amazing. But, uh, it, what I, what I like about it... Look, you're not gonna move 2.3 million Palestinians outta Gaza, right? Because n- none of the Arab states want them. The Egyptians have fought against this idea for years and years and years.

    16. JRJoe Rogan47:53

        That's a good point and something that maybe a lot of people aren't aware of, is that, uh, the wall on the side of Egypt is way bigger than the wall on the side of Israel.

    17. MBMike Baker48:01

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan48:02

        That, that is an impenetrable wall that's heavily guarded. They do not want Palestinians coming-

    19. MBMike Baker48:07

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan48:07

        ... into Egypt, which is kind of crazy.

    21. MBMike Baker48:09

        Well, it's a... From their perspective, look, it's, it's a security issue. And, and-

    22. JRJoe Rogan48:11

        Yeah.

    23. MBMike Baker48:12

        ... there's, there's a lot of Palestinian refugees in Jordan. So it's not like Jordan hasn't tried to do their part. Um, but they also... What are they gonna do? Absorb another million, two million Palestinians? No. So the, the, the problem from a, from an operational perspective is, is it's, it's unlikely to, to happen, right? And also, do you really want the US buying and owning Gaza, right, and then being out there? You think that, you think that the cost of, of supporting Ukraine is high. Wait till you see what the cost of not only the reconstruction, but the security of the reconstruction, right? What that's going to mean. You think, you think there was a boon in private security contractors during the Iraq incursions? This will be-

    24. JRJoe Rogan48:52

        (clears throat)

    25. MBMike Baker48:52

        (laughs) you know, this will make that look like nothing.

    26. JRJoe Rogan48:54

        Right.

    27. MBMike Baker48:55

        So-

    28. JRJoe Rogan48:55

        Because they gotta guard their investments.

    29. MBMike Baker48:56

        So they... Exactly. So the costs involved, the potential for, you know, just never ending, um-

    30. JRJoe Rogan49:01

        Bullshit.
13. 1:03:32 – 1:15:24

    Why nations meddle: CIA influence, Cold War pragmatism, and critical minerals (Congo, cobalt, China)

    1. MBMike Baker1:03:32

       I don't, I ... Well, yeah. Um, yeah, I'm not putting it, I'm not putting it well, but I think what I mean is that there's ... It's not ... What I, w- I was having a conversation the other day, and it was about, um, it was about US involvement in a variety of groups, activities, associations over the years looking to topple governments, looking to change, you know, um, uh, uh, the direction of a, of a government. L- you know, all the nefarious things that the CIA has been accused of over the years. And, you know, I was like, "Well, goddamn, what did, what, what, what do you expect? Of course that's what we're doing," right? Of course we're, of course we're trying to influence hearts and minds. Of course we're infiltrating organizations to try to influence the direction of a government that, you know, you go all the way back to the Cold War, right? We were convinced the Russians or the Soviets were gonna blow us to hell, right? Of course we're gonna be doing a variety of things. You want a government over there that's more friendly to you? Okay, how are we gonna go about doing that, right? If that means VOA, or Voice of America, or that means infiltrating some organization that's gonna try to win them? Yeah. So, y- you know, is that morally repugnant? I don't know. You know?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:04:43

       But you think it's necessary?

    3. MBMike Baker1:04:44

       I think there's, there's a ... I think it's understandable, uh, and I think also, um ... Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:04:50

       So what ... Imagine a world without that.

    5. MBMike Baker1:04:53

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:04:53

       So if that is a vacuum, and we stop doing that-

    7. MBMike Baker1:04:58

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:04:58

       ... entirely, altogether-

    9. MBMike Baker1:04:59

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:04:59

        ... does that vacuum get filled up by another power?

    11. MBMike Baker1:05:02

        Yeah. Yeah, that's-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:05:03

        Yeah.

    13. MBMike Baker1:05:03

        I think that's, yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:05:04

        This is the problem, right?

    15. MBMike Baker1:05:04

        That's the problem, is that we, we don't live in a world of benign nations who, like, if we're not the police, you know, at the top of the, the food chain, uh, nobody needs to be there. Someone's gonna fill that, that gap, and they're, and you know what? Um, maybe I'm, maybe I'm wrong. I'm d- I ... But I've been around a long time, and I've spent most of it overseas in unusual places. Um, we make a lot of mistakes as a country. It's a human endeavor. But we do try to correct, and it can take time, right?

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:05:32

        Mm-hmm.

    17. MBMike Baker1:05:32

        It can take a lot of time. We make a lot of mistakes. Of course we do. But, uh, I've seen a lot of (laughs) players out there, and I'd rather have us and our allies trying to direct traffic rather than some of the hostile actors that are out there, 'cause I don't-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:05:47

        This is, uh, the best case scenario perspective.

    19. MBMike Baker1:05:49

        Mm-hmm.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:05:49

        Worst case scenario perspective is that these policy changes that we are, uh, initiating and that we are, uh, influencing is for corporations to make more money. It's to control resources and to control areas and to make things friendlier for business. That's w- the worst case scenario, is this is done in-

    21. MBMike Baker1:06:10

        Well, that's what-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:06:10

        ... a mercenary fashion.

    23. MBMike Baker1:06:12

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:06:12

        But is that-

    25. MBMike Baker1:06:13

        But that's what-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:13

        Just-

    27. MBMike Baker1:06:13

        I mean, that's what-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:14

        But is that just-

    29. MBMike Baker1:06:14

        ... the Chinese regime?

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:06:15

        Sure, right.

Episode duration: 2:44:37