Joe Rogan Experience #2274 - Mike Baker

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music)

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Mike Baker.

   4. MBMike Baker0:14

      Oh.

   5. NANarrator0:14

      Good to see you, my friend.

   6. MBMike Baker0:15

      It's good to be seen. Thank you, Mr. Rogan.

   7. NANarrator0:18

      (laughs)

   8. MBMike Baker0:18

      (laughs) Um, thank you.

   9. NANarrator0:19

      You taking notes already? (laughs)

   10. MBMike Baker0:20

       I am. "He said, 'Good to see you.'" Yeah, I know. I don't know what I, I do this, right? Yeah.

   11. NANarrator0:26

       So, tell everybody what you were doing in the Middle East, 'cause it's pretty crazy.

   12. MBMike Baker0:29

       Oh, thank you.

   13. NANarrator0:29

       Pretty interesting.

   14. MBMike Baker0:30

       Yeah, thank you for that. Um, look, it all started with, uh, some, uh, some colleagues of mine from the UK Special Forces Club. And these guys are tremendous, right? But Howard Ledum and some others who came up with an idea. They said, "Look, we have to do something to help the Benevolent Fund," which is for the UK Special Forces. It's like, um, uh, it's like Wounded Warriors here in the States. But, and I can say this because I'm a dual citizen with, uh, the UK, um, the British don't tend to be very good at raising money or- or asking for money for very important causes. So, here in the US where you've got 100,000 different, you know, groups that are advocating for veterans, over there it's not the case, right? But they have the same need, right? And they have all these- these wonderful people in their families. So, the idea was, what can we do? A big event, something massive that can- that can really help to raise funds and awareness for the Special Forces Benevolent Fund. They came up with this crazy idea at the time, still crazy, to recreate, um, a 1917, uh, epic journey that Lawrence of Arabia did through what was considered the unpassable deserts of Saudi and Jordan. To go from essentially northwest Saudi through these unpassable deserts and then into Jordan and then down to Aqaba to rout the Turks, who at the time controlled the area. And, um, with a small Arab army led by several sheikhs, uh, and Lawrence, they did this trek of about 1,100 kilometers. Um, took them several months because they had to stop along the way, plus they were fighting Turks along the way. So, um, we took off in January, mid-January, five riders, 10 camels, and an incredible support team.

   15. NANarrator2:13

       (laughs)

   16. MBMike Baker2:13

       An incredible support team.

   17. NANarrator2:14

       Can I just stop you there?

   18. MBMike Baker2:15

       Yeah.

   19. NANarrator2:15

       Is this i- your first time riding a camel?

   20. MBMike Baker2:17

       Well, we went out in December, spent about a week and a half. Howard, uh, lives out there, as do, uh, uh, one of the other fellas. And, um ...

   21. NANarrator2:27

       So you had to go through camel riding training?

   22. MBMike Baker2:28

       Camel riding training. You, th- that's exactly what we did. Yeah, oh. (laughs)

   23. NANarrator2:32

       (laughs)

   24. MBMike Baker2:32

       Oh, god. So there we are.

   25. NANarrator2:34

       What is it like riding a camel?

   26. MBMike Baker2:35

       It is not comfortable in any fashion. It's not like a horse. A horse has ... You can fall into sort of a rhythm and a horse has a much smoother gait. Um, you know, so the camel basically all you're trying to do ... There's- there's the- there's the crew. Uh, wonderful guys.

   27. NANarrator2:49

       They're up so high.

   28. MBMike Baker2:49

       Howard, James, myself, Tommo. Uh, there's, uh, there's Craig in the back. Uh, an amazing crew. I've- I've rarely worked with- with guys that are just so impressive. And- and- and again, going with the support team, everybody that was on that group, a small group of- of eight or- or nine folks, um ...

   29. NANarrator3:05

       Why does everybody ride with one leg to the side like that?

   30. MBMike Baker3:09

       Um, (laughs) it's essentially a comfort issue. And because you'll notice there's no ... Those- those, they're not really saddles, they're called shadads, uh, that sit on top of the- the hump. That's a Saudi shaddad. The Omani shaddad is different, it sits behind the hump and is even less comfortable.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah, yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      they've been so egregious and obvious that I think it's turned a lot of people off. Even rational, kind, compassionate, progressive people are like, "Enough, this is fucking stupid."

   2. MBMike Baker15:11

      Yeah, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:12

      Especially when you hear like the, the anti stuff. It's not just like pro whatever you are, it's anti whatever you're not.

   4. MBMike Baker15:21

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:21

      And then you realize, oh, okay, this is not like ... this is not rational. This is, this is cult-like thinking, and this is a thing where if you don't agree, the, the punishment is very, it's very grave. Like, they'll-

   6. MBMike Baker15:35

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:35

      ... they'll go after you so hard if you don't-

   8. MBMike Baker15:37

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:37

      ... agree with them. And then you kind of realize what it is, like this-

   10. MBMike Baker15:39

       And then eventually they start to eat their own.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:41

       Yes.

   12. MBMike Baker15:41

       And, and so-

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       You can never be-

   14. MBMike Baker15:42

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       ... progressive enough.

   16. MBMike Baker15:43

       No, no, no. The, the, the mob's always going to turn on, on ... no matter who you are and how righteous you pretended to be. Um, so ... and, and I agree with it. Yeah, good people, um, with good intentions, you know, in, mixed in, but I think a lot of people saw this as a terrific opportunity, right? And I also think that what it, what it taught me was that, yes, I am racist. I hate, uh, I hate elite, uh, progressive white people.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:07

       (laughs)

   18. MBMike Baker16:07

       More than, more ... I just, I can't stand them. It's the one group that I, I would say that I, I just can't stand, because they're very ... there's something about them. And, uh-

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       I feel sorry for them.

   20. MBMike Baker16:17

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       I feel, I feel-

   22. MBMike Baker16:18

       I, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       ... I feel like at this point in our, our culture, uh, the divisions are so fucking crazy, and it's so counter to what America should be standing for, which is a, a united states, united country-

   24. MBMike Baker16:33

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:33

       ... a community, a large group of people that all agree on a few very key rules, one of them being freedom. And I think that-

   26. MBMike Baker16:43

       Seems logical.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       Yeah. It's-

   28. MBMike Baker16:44

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:44

       We got to stop all ... This division is set up not by us. It's set up by world leaders. It's set up by the media. It's set up by the people who benefit from keeping us divided. Most of us agree on a lot ... and one of the things you're seeing is like, from all these USAID disclosures, is the mainstream media cannot ever say that anything this administration is doing is positive. So even if they find unbelievable corruption-

   30. MBMike Baker17:11

       Right.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

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   3. JRJoe Rogan30:42

      Well, the- I think the problem is they're trying to do it very quickly because they wanna get a lot done before the midterms.

   4. MBMike Baker30:47

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:47

      Right? So, they only have 24 months to enact real change.

   6. MBMike Baker30:50

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:50

      And, you know... Did you see Kevin O'Leary, talking about on CNN?

   8. MBMike Baker30:54

      Mm-mm, mm-mm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:55

      He was saying they're not doing enough, they should cut more. He's like, if you wanna f- 'cause he's talking about it from an entrepreneur's perspective.

   10. MBMike Baker31:00

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       If you're taking over, like, a failing company that's filled with bloat and waste, and he's like, "That is the government." And he goes, "You gotta cut more." He goes, "Cut everything. Cut it all out."

   12. MBMike Baker31:08

       But-

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:08

       "And then find out what's necessary and rebuild it from there." And it was inter- it was interesting-

   14. MBMike Baker31:11

       Well, I, I would argue-

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:12

       ... 'cause he was saying it on ESP- on, s- excuse me, on CNN. And CNN w- they were like, "Oh!"

   16. MBMike Baker31:17

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:17

       "Oh!"

   18. MBMike Baker31:19

       Yeah, yeah, I know.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:19

       Panties are in a wad.

   20. MBMike Baker31:21

       Oh my God. Well, the five people that watch CNN still were probably-

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:23

       There's probably 20.

   22. MBMike Baker31:24

       ... yeah. (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:24

       But the thing about it is, they're all united in their message.

   24. MBMike Baker31:27

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:27

       Whether it's MSNBC, CN- I watched MSNBC the other day in the gym. Oh my God, it was awesome motivation to work out.

   26. MBMike Baker31:33

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       Because these people looked morbidly obese and they were giving, they, they had this language that they were speaking. It was, like, almost like they were translating from another language. Like, it was all, like, it didn't make sense. It's like, you know, "W- we're in danger. You know, we are..." I- it was the way they were talking, it's like, "My people feel, my people feel like they're in danger, like they're being criminalized."

   28. MBMike Baker31:59

       Oh, okay, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:00

       "We are, you know, we're being, we're being pushed out of society. We're being told we don't exist." And then, you c- of course, you have to say you're an ally of the LBGTQ+AI.

   30. MBMike Baker32:09

       You have to be an ally. Yeah, yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   (laughs) Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      and it also appeals to their citizens. That's the thing.

   2. MBMike Baker45:03

      (laughs) Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:03

      The citizens say-

   4. MBMike Baker45:04

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      "This is the way we want our government to talk."

   6. MBMike Baker45:07

      Yeah. And I think it's funny because a lot of people on... (laughs) You know, there's a lot of people on social media right now going, "Oh my God, you don't realize how hated, you know, you are now as Americans." And, "The US is so hated." And no... Think, look, I spent most of my time overseas, right? And most people are going, "Yeah, this seems like it's common sense. You guys are finally coming around." Right? And so I, I, I, I don't think they're gonna win the argument that somehow the US is more hated. Look, we've been hated in a variety of locations.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:32

      But we definitely-

   8. MBMike Baker45:33

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:33

      ... are hated in Canada right now.

   10. MBMike Baker45:34

       Oh, yeah. (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:35

       See their hockey game? (laughs)

   12. MBMike Baker45:37

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       They were booing-

   14. MBMike Baker45:38

       Oh my God.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:38

       ... the national anthem so hard.

   16. MBMike Baker45:39

       Oh, yeah?

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:40

       And then they get in three fights in the first nine minutes.

   18. MBMike Baker45:42

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:43

       And then we kick Canada's ass... Sorry, Canada. I- in Canada, which is not good-

   20. MBMike Baker45:48

       Yeah, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       ... because that's their fucking sport.

   22. MBMike Baker45:49

       It is their sport, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan45:49

       That's basically their only shot at beating us at anything.

   24. MBMike Baker45:51

       Yeah. Well, cur- curling.

   25. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       Well, they're not going... They might be able to win at that.

   26. MBMike Baker45:54

       Yeah, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan45:54

       But if we practice it, we'd be better at that too.

   28. MBMike Baker45:56

       (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       Like, they, they make great-

   30. MBMike Baker45:58

       Yeah.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:18

   Well, they probably never…

   1. MBMike Baker1:00:00

      and I'm not really tying it all together very well at all. But, um, but, you know, there's also this element that Hamas doesn't give a shit about the Palestinian citizens, right? The civilians, I mean. And, you know, if they did, they wouldn't conduct their, their operations. Their methodology would be different, right? They wouldn't, they wouldn't bury themselves in their operations and their command centers and e- everything that they do, right? Their, their depots, their, their missile, weapons supply, uh, centers within the public, uh, environment, right? They, they just wouldn't, right? They-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:31

      Well, they probably never expected this.

   3. MBMike Baker1:00:34

      Um, yeah. I don't know. I don't-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:36

      There's no way they would-

   5. MBMike Baker1:00:37

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

      ... have done October 7th if they expected this response.

   7. MBMike Baker1:00:40

      Well, there's no way the Iranian regime, I think, would have allowed them to do this if they, if they anticipated they would get this sort of response. So I think you're right. Um, but, you know... And again, I'm... You know, this is the, this is the problem. People... The people only hear what they wanna hear, right? So they hear, they hear me say from an operational perspective, I kinda... I understand that they had an aggressive response and yet... But then they stop listening, right? So what I'm saying is, it w- was it over the top? Well, yes, it was over the top. And could they have been more surgical about this? Well, yes, they certainly could have. Um, could they have prevented, uh, some loss of civilian life? Well, yes. Would, would have that been a difficult? Well, yes. Why? Because Hamas puts themselves in the center of civilian life there. They know this is what's gonna happen. This is their currency, dead Palestinians. Yeah, that drives their narrative and they always know it's going to turn against the Israelis as we're having these discussions. That's what happens. And they've got enough of a track record to know that's what's gonna happen. So they use it to their advantage. But, you know, again, it doesn't excuse the killing. I keep coming back to that same thing. You could have, you know, disparate multiple, you know, thoughts in your head at the same time, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MBMike Baker1:01:42

      You can feel bad about that and at the same time you can go, "Yeah, it was fucked up what they did on 7th October. You're gonna go after Hamas." And then what you're gonna find is that urban combat is really, really f-... fucking ugly, right? And you're gonna have casualties that you really, really regret having. Um, were there more than, than needed? I would say yes. They didn't need the extent of their response, but I understand their mindset for, for why they went so hard after Hamas. This is decades and decades, you know, built up saying, "No more," right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:13

       Right.

   11. MBMike Baker1:02:13

       "We can't put up with this anymore." Now again, the problem is, you know ... The problem is not that they ... It's, it's not really Hamas. I keep coming back to the same thing. The problem is that the instigator of all this trouble, the instigator of the vast majority of, of, of, of chaos and instability and violence and death in that region is the Iranian regime. Most Arab states will agree to that. Maybe not the Yemenis, right? Um, you know, but most of those Arab states are not gonna be sad to see the Iranian regime fall, for this very reason. Everybody wants a better life, right? However they perceive it. And the Iranian regime, you know, the mullahs and the IRGC, you know, they've got a stated objective, and they are pursuing that. As long as those people are in charge, right, you know, ultimately, we're not gonna get a big sea change here. We're not gonna get a huge shift in, in the way things go. But if you want a better life, then you gotta look to the, to the whatever you wanna call it, the head of the snake or the, you know, the top of the mountain. There they are, the Iranian regime driving a lot of this chaos. So anyway, I'm getting away from the point, but I don't disagree with Dave. I, I always like a lot of the things that he says. I just think that we come at it sometimes from a much different perspective. I don't tend to believe that the world is full of, of, uh, good actors who are just trying to create a community of nations.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:03:31

       I don't think that's his perspective either.

   13. MBMike Baker1:03:32

       I don't, I ... Well, yeah. Um, yeah, I'm not putting it, I'm not putting it well, but I think what I mean is that there's ... It's not ... What I, w- I was having a conversation the other day, and it was about, um, it was about US involvement in a variety of groups, activities, associations over the years looking to topple governments, looking to change, you know, um, uh, uh, the direction of a, of a government. L- you know, all the nefarious things that the CIA has been accused of over the years. And, you know, I was like, "Well, goddamn, what did, what, what, what do you expect? Of course that's what we're doing," right? Of course we're, of course we're trying to influence hearts and minds. Of course we're infiltrating organizations to try to influence the direction of a government that, you know, you go all the way back to the Cold War, right? We were convinced the Russians or the Soviets were gonna blow us to hell, right? Of course we're gonna be doing a variety of things. You want a government over there that's more friendly to you? Okay, how are we gonna go about doing that, right? If that means VOA, or Voice of America, or that means infiltrating some organization that's gonna try to win them? Yeah. So, y- you know, is that morally repugnant? I don't know. You know?

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:04:43

       But you think it's necessary?

   15. MBMike Baker1:04:44

       I think there's, there's a ... I think it's understandable, uh, and I think also, um ... Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:04:50

       So what ... Imagine a world without that.

   17. MBMike Baker1:04:53

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:04:53

       So if that is a vacuum, and we stop doing that-

   19. MBMike Baker1:04:58

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:04:58

       ... entirely, altogether-

   21. MBMike Baker1:04:59

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:04:59

       ... does that vacuum get filled up by another power?

   23. MBMike Baker1:05:02

       Yeah. Yeah, that's-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:03

       Yeah.

   25. MBMike Baker1:05:03

       I think that's, yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:05:04

       This is the problem, right?

   27. MBMike Baker1:05:04

       That's the problem, is that we, we don't live in a world of benign nations who, like, if we're not the police, you know, at the top of the, the food chain, uh, nobody needs to be there. Someone's gonna fill that, that gap, and they're, and you know what? Um, maybe I'm, maybe I'm wrong. I'm d- I ... But I've been around a long time, and I've spent most of it overseas in unusual places. Um, we make a lot of mistakes as a country. It's a human endeavor. But we do try to correct, and it can take time, right?

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:05:32

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MBMike Baker1:05:32

       It can take a lot of time. We make a lot of mistakes. Of course we do. But, uh, I've seen a lot of (laughs) players out there, and I'd rather have us and our allies trying to direct traffic rather than some of the hostile actors that are out there, 'cause I don't-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:05:47

       This is, uh, the best case scenario perspective.

Episode duration: 2:44:37