Joe Rogan Experience #2274 - Mike Baker

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music)

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Mike Baker.

Mike Baker 0:14 Oh.

Narrator 0:14 Good to see you, my friend.

Mike Baker 0:15 It's good to be seen. Thank you, Mr. Rogan.

Narrator 0:18 (laughs)

Mike Baker 0:18 (laughs) Um, thank you.

Narrator 0:19 You taking notes already? (laughs)

Mike Baker 0:20 I am. "He said, 'Good to see you.'" Yeah, I know. I don't know what I, I do this, right? Yeah.

Narrator 0:26 So, tell everybody what you were doing in the Middle East, 'cause it's pretty crazy.

Mike Baker 0:29 Oh, thank you.

Narrator 0:29 Pretty interesting.

Mike Baker 0:30 Yeah, thank you for that. Um, look, it all started with, uh, some, uh, some colleagues of mine from the UK Special Forces Club. And these guys are tremendous, right? But Howard Ledum and some others who came up with an idea. They said, "Look, we have to do something to help the Benevolent Fund," which is for the UK Special Forces. It's like, um, uh, it's like Wounded Warriors here in the States. But, and I can say this because I'm a dual citizen with, uh, the UK, um, the British don't tend to be very good at raising money or- or asking for money for very important causes. So, here in the US where you've got 100,000 different, you know, groups that are advocating for veterans, over there it's not the case, right? But they have the same need, right? And they have all these- these wonderful people in their families. So, the idea was, what can we do? A big event, something massive that can- that can really help to raise funds and awareness for the Special Forces Benevolent Fund. They came up with this crazy idea at the time, still crazy, to recreate, um, a 1917, uh, epic journey that Lawrence of Arabia did through what was considered the unpassable deserts of Saudi and Jordan. To go from essentially northwest Saudi through these unpassable deserts and then into Jordan and then down to Aqaba to rout the Turks, who at the time controlled the area. And, um, with a small Arab army led by several sheikhs, uh, and Lawrence, they did this trek of about 1,100 kilometers. Um, took them several months because they had to stop along the way, plus they were fighting Turks along the way. So, um, we took off in January, mid-January, five riders, 10 camels, and an incredible support team.

Narrator 2:13 (laughs)

Mike Baker 2:13 An incredible support team.

Narrator 2:14 Can I just stop you there?

Mike Baker 2:15 Yeah.

Narrator 2:15 Is this i- your first time riding a camel?

Mike Baker 2:17 Well, we went out in December, spent about a week and a half. Howard, uh, lives out there, as do, uh, uh, one of the other fellas. And, um ...

Narrator 2:27 So you had to go through camel riding training?

Mike Baker 2:28 Camel riding training. You, th- that's exactly what we did. Yeah, oh. (laughs)

Narrator 2:32 (laughs)

Mike Baker 2:32 Oh, god. So there we are.

Narrator 2:34 What is it like riding a camel?

Mike Baker 2:35 It is not comfortable in any fashion. It's not like a horse. A horse has ... You can fall into sort of a rhythm and a horse has a much smoother gait. Um, you know, so the camel basically all you're trying to do ... There's- there's the- there's the crew. Uh, wonderful guys.

Narrator 2:49 They're up so high.

Mike Baker 2:49 Howard, James, myself, Tommo. Uh, there's, uh, there's Craig in the back. Uh, an amazing crew. I've- I've rarely worked with- with guys that are just so impressive. And- and- and again, going with the support team, everybody that was on that group, a small group of- of eight or- or nine folks, um ...

Narrator 3:05 Why does everybody ride with one leg to the side like that?

Mike Baker 3:09 Um, (laughs) it's essentially a comfort issue. And because you'll notice there's no ... Those- those, they're not really saddles, they're called shadads, uh, that sit on top of the- the hump. That's a Saudi shaddad. The Omani shaddad is different, it sits behind the hump and is even less comfortable.

Narrator 3:24 (laughs)

Mike Baker 3:24 Um, and now, these things were probably designed some 2,000 years ago and they've never felt the need to improve them. They're basically just some wood, uh, you know, tied together. And then you try to throw a couple of things on top of this piece of wood to make it comfortable. And I- I think all the Bedouins and others were laughing at us because we just kept piling blankets on to try to see if we couldn't ... Yeah, it was- it was tough. And, uh, and so ass blisters are a real thing.

Narrator 3:48 Oh, yeah.

Mike Baker 3:49 Yeah. So anyway, they- that's what- that's what- that's what you see there. But there's no stirrups on these things. Like a horse, you know ...

Narrator 3:54 Right.

Mike Baker 3:54 You're riding on the saddle, you got stirrups.

Narrator 3:56 So you're just hanging on.

Mike Baker 3:57 And it takes the pressure off your legs. You're just hanging on, so you don't want to ride with one leg on either side because it's just not- it's just not comfortable. So you hitch your leg over the- the front, um, and then you- you kind of put your leg or your foot behind the other leg.

Narrator 4:09 Is it because they're too wide?

Mike Baker 4:11 Um ...

Narrator 4:12 Is that why you don't want to ride one leg on the other side, or is it just a ball buster literally?

Mike Baker 4:16 Well, I'd say, I'd say it's a ball buster, uh, particularly if that shaddad shifts and it starts to, like, lean forward.

Narrator 4:20 Oh.

Mike Baker 4:21 And then suddenly, like there's these- these large dowels in the front and large dowel in the back, you know, they kind of basically look like big wooden dildos on this shaddad. And so if that shaddad shifts forward as it did on occasion, you're just- you're- your package is just jammed against that thing. And you have to cover ... Th- these guys, look, I got injured. Uh, I had some soft muscle injury and- and, uh, there's- there's the crew walking through. Um, and I tore some muscles in my rib cage during the-

Narrator 4:47 During just riding?

Mike Baker 4:48 No. It was a rather, uh, inelegant, uh, dismount-

Narrator 4:52 Oh.

Mike Baker 4:52 ... from the camel. And so I twisted really badly and then went the other way, and then the next thing you know, I'd- I had, uh, fucked up some, uh, the muscles along my obliques and then rib cage area. And so I spent the next couple of days, we had a team medic, uh, Jed, a wonderful guy, great sense of humor, as did they all. And he eventually got tired of me, like, asking him for painkillers and anti-inflammatories. Um, and so eventually I had to tap out, which was, uh, more painful probably than- than the actual injuries. And the guys just continued to grind it out. 25-

Narrator 5:27 How far was left when you had to tap out?

Mike Baker 5:29 Oh, I was- I was in the first 25% of the- of the journey.

Narrator 5:32 Oh, wow.

Mike Baker 5:32 So I had to ... And- and then I went back for the, uh, for the end, for the arrival into Aqaba. There's the whole crew right there. Just, I- I just can't say enough about these- these people. Um, tw- again, 25, 26 days, longer than that, actually a month out in really bad conditions. People think, "Well, it's the deserts," right? Well, it's called the unpassable deserts for a reason. Massive sandstorms, freezing temperatures at night, bitter cold. And we were sleeping in one-man tents. And, um, then you'd get up, you'd-... you'd get the camels ready-

Joe Rogan 6:02 How many-

Mike Baker 6:03 ... you know.

Joe Rogan 6:03 ... su- how much supplies did you bring?

Mike Baker 6:05 Well-

Joe Rogan 6:05 Did you have a supply camel?

Mike Baker 6:07 We had a, we had a... Land Rover did a wonderful job of helping to sponsor this, so, uh, they provided, uh, vehicles that the support team used to kind of trail and then get ahead-

Joe Rogan 6:19 Oh, okay.

Mike Baker 6:19 ... and, and help to, to establish the next... And we had, we had, uh... Howard and Craig had done the, uh, the recce, so we ni- we had the camps mapped out. Because this is a long trek, 1,100 kilometers, and, um, and so they were able to, to supply and, and do all the work that kept these guys moving forward. And-

Joe Rogan 6:40 Imagine doing that-

Mike Baker 6:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:41 ... without them.

Mike Baker 6:42 Oh, it would, it would have been, it... It wouldn't have been impossible, but it, they'd still be out there schlepping.

Joe Rogan 6:47 You'd have-

Mike Baker 6:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:47 Jesus, you'd had to b- bring several camels just to carry your food and water.

Mike Baker 6:51 Yeah. No, it's, it's exactly right.

Joe Rogan 6:53 Because you're not... There's no water out there, right?

Mike Baker 6:55 Uh, no. No. I mean, there's, there's, there's-

Joe Rogan 6:57 Nothing? Do you find a spring occasionally?

Mike Baker 6:58 Yeah. You, you could... You, you pass through a, a handful of areas near... Small. I mean, when I'm saying small, I mean, like, there's nothing there, little tiny village. Maybe there's a mosque, and the mosque would have a water supply, so you could stop and, and, and, uh, maybe refill, let the camels drink. Um-

Joe Rogan 7:12 Are they getting water from the ground or are they getting water from... Are they bringing it in?

Mike Baker 7:16 They're getting it from a well. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:18 Oh, okay.

Mike Baker 7:18 From, from a well. So they have, they have... I, I mean, because they live, you know... Talking thousands of years, they've figured out where the wells are. And part of this, you know, from 1917, it loo- look, the Turks never expected these guys to come from this direction, 'cause who's going to do that?

Joe Rogan 7:30 Right.

Mike Baker 7:30 And they did it. These guys all did it. I was just, I was just honored to be a part of it, even though I had to tap out, which was... Goddamn, that was frustrating.

Joe Rogan 7:38 Jamie, can you show me what that looks like on a map? All right, it's February. And by now, 80% of people have probably abandoned their New Year's resolutions, and it makes sense. Life can get crazy and all the sudden you don't have the time. But one easy habit to stick with is AG1. It's an easy, realistic habit that you can make to benefit your whole body health. AG1 makes hard-to-get micronutrients easy to get and replaces multiple vitamins and supplements with just one scoop. You just mix it in some cold water, take a nice moment in the morning to do your body right. And honestly, it tastes pretty good. It's not easy to pack this many high-quality ingredients with this much nutrient density, but AG1 makes it happen without added sugars or artificial sweeteners ever. AG1 is a great way to invest in your health now and in the long run, which is why I've partnered with them for so long. Try AG1 and get a free bottle of vitamin D3 K2 and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription at DrinkAG1.com/JoeRogan. That's a $76 value gift for free when you go to DrinkAG1.com/JoeRogan. Check it out. Like what that area looks like?

Mike Baker 8:49 Yeah, I should have, I should have included a, a map of the, the route itself. Um-

Narrator 8:54 Can you also just show, like, tell me where to look?

Mike Baker 8:55 Um, look for Al Wajh, Al Wajh, Saudi, um, on, on the, on the coast. Sort of Northwest Saudi. Um, and, um-

Joe Rogan 9:09 Look at Jamie spelling it correctly and everything.

Narrator 9:11 (laughs)

Mike Baker 9:11 This guy, this guy's crazy.

Joe Rogan 9:12 Pretty close.

Mike Baker 9:12 Look at that. He... No, he... It's right there, right there at the top.

Joe Rogan 9:17 So-

Mike Baker 9:17 So we, we started at, in Al Wajh. Um, and then... Yeah, there you go. There you go. No, you click out.

Joe Rogan 9:23 Yeah.

Mike Baker 9:23 And then you start, you start heading, uh, north. You start heading northeast. You can see Jordan is up there above that area. You, you start heading sort of on a diagonal, um, northeast. Uh, you pass through all... (laughs) Just look at it. It's just like, "What the hell?" And you keep going, you keep going. Eventually you get... If you, if you, uh, z- zoom out a little bit so you'll see the, the border with Jordan. Okay, you go up, you pass... Keep, keep going in that direction and you'll see-

Joe Rogan 9:50 That whole place looks inhospitable from the map.

Mike Baker 9:52 Th- there's just not a lot there. And then you come up to where Jordan is. But anyway, at the end of the day, you see Aqaba. We came down through Jordan and into Aqaba, which is at the tip there. Right there, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:02 Oh.

Mike Baker 10:02 Which is where the fort was, which is where they routed the Turks and then eventually that, that created all sorts of opportunities for the Arab states.

Joe Rogan 10:08 Scroll back up again. Look at this whole area. There's fucking no green. (laughs)

Mike Baker 10:12 No, no, there's none. None.

Joe Rogan 10:12 There's just tiny parcels of semi-green areas.

Mike Baker 10:16 Yeah. No, there's, there's, there's... When, when I say it's desolate and there's nothing, um, there's, there's nothing. You go-

Joe Rogan 10:22 Jamie, zoom back out again.

Narrator 10:23 Yep.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Look how wild that looks. Like, what happened?

Mike Baker 10:28 So these, these, these, uh, these folks-

Joe Rogan 10:31 Doesn't that all look washed out, Jamie? This is all Randall Carlson stuff, right?

Narrator 10:34 Yeah, it is. I'm looking for that stuff now.

Mike Baker 10:34 Yeah, and we went, uh, went through the, the Royal Reserve, uh, with... The Saudis were very good and the Jordanians were amazing as well-

Narrator 10:41 Like a basin or something.

Mike Baker 10:41 ... uh, in supporting us.

Joe Rogan 10:41 Jamie, what were you saying?

Narrator 10:42 Like a basin. Looks like it all washed down.

Joe Rogan 10:45 Yeah, it totally looks like it washed.

Mike Baker 10:47 Yeah, you'll find, you'll find, like, the, all these wadis that are in there that, you know, it's... Essentially, there's a lot of, uh, dried up riverbeds. And, you know, the danger is, of course, that there're flash floods on occasion. Not, not, not very often. Um, but... So this, this, this thing took place and they eventually, uh... The whole thing ended in Aqaba. Again, the Jordanians couldn't, couldn't have been greater about supporting this. Um, I think everybody... I know the Bedouins, when we got started, they were staring at us like, "What the hell are you doing?"

Joe Rogan 11:16 (laughs)

Mike Baker 11:16 They couldn't imagine that people would do this willingly.

Joe Rogan 11:19 Right.

Mike Baker 11:20 For, for no... You know, from their perspective, no reason.

Joe Rogan 11:23 Especially soft Americans and Europeans.

Mike Baker 11:24 Oh, man. I tell you what. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:26 Soft.

Mike Baker 11:26 I, I... Yeah. I know, I know when I got injured, I, I, I know every single one of those damn son of a bitches were laughing.

Narrator 11:31 (laughs)

Mike Baker 11:31 They were like, "What the hell?" And then, uh, and they were looking at, like, the arshidats with all these blankets and, and, and furs on them, trying to make it somewhat comfortable.

Joe Rogan 11:40 Those guys must have leather balls.

Narrator 11:42 Yeah.

Mike Baker 11:43 Y- yeah. I think... Or they just had them removed. I don't know how you do it, because... And then, and you have to trot, right? You can't just walk.

Joe Rogan 11:48 Right.

Mike Baker 11:48 Walking was comfortable enough. But you have to, you have... To cover the distance, right? And the trot on a camel is, is not...... comfortable, right? And so it was, it, it, a- a- anyway, I- I just can't say enough good things about these people. Um, but the cause, the UK Special Forces Club Benevolent Fund, if people want to go and read more about this, they can go to, uh, what is it? Www.sfcbf-

Joe Rogan 12:13 That's how old you are. You keep-

Mike Baker 12:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:14 ... using the Ws. Everybody else gave up on-

Mike Baker 12:16 I guess I don't have to.

Joe Rogan 12:17 (laughs)

Mike Baker 12:17 I don't ... 'cause it ... so that's three Ws.

Joe Rogan 12:20 (laughs)

Mike Baker 12:20 And then ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:21 Whoever used to say that. People used to say-

Mike Baker 12:22 It, it-

Joe Rogan 12:23 ... http://.

Mike Baker 12:24 Yes, yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:24 Remember those days?

Mike Baker 12:25 I still (laughs) , I still do, because I think that's what you have to do. So it's f ... uh, uh, sfcbf.org. You can go there, you check it out. And if you're so inclined, there's even a button you can click on to donate, even if it's a price of a cup of coffee. If you, if you get enough people putting in the price of a cup of coffee-

Joe Rogan 12:42 Yeah.

Mike Baker 12:42 ... it makes a huge difference for these people. Um, but, uh, it was, it was an, uh, one of those bucket list items that I just can't describe enough.

Joe Rogan 12:51 When you see some of the things that USAID fund-

Mike Baker 12:53 Oh, gosh.

Joe Rogan 12:53 ... does it get you upset that they don't fund things like this?

Mike Baker 12:56 Yeah. Yeah, it really does.

Joe Rogan 12:57 It does, it does me too.

Mike Baker 12:58 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:58 It does me too. It just, it's ... come on.

Mike Baker 13:00 Because this is, this is a direct ... right? As, as is Wounded Warriors.

Joe Rogan 13:04 Yeah.

Mike Baker 13:04 As are all the other groups.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Baker 13:05 It's a direct way to help people, you know. A- a- and it's not like they're, they've got, you know, massive administrative costs, right? Like, like the government tends to.

Joe Rogan 13:14 Right, right.

Mike Baker 13:14 And so, no, absolutely goddamn right. I just ... it seems to me ... and so we, you know, we were fortunate to have a lot of, you know, corporations that went in on it. Um, you know, there were some that looked at it and goes, "Okay, so let me see. You're talking about five white guys on camels, you know, recreating what we think is a cl-..." It was still sort of the vestiges of that bullshit DEI thing, right? From a corporate-

Joe Rogan 13:33 (groans)

Mike Baker 13:33 ... perspective.

Joe Rogan 13:34 Right.

Mike Baker 13:34 So we're like, "No, goddamn it. It's sporting, you know, veterans. How diffi- and their families, how tough is that to understand?" But, you know, some-

Joe Rogan 13:41 You're just taking-

Mike Baker 13:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:42 ... a difficult trek doesn't mean you support colonialism.

Mike Baker 13:44 Yeah. No, exactly.

Joe Rogan 13:45 It's like, so silly.

Mike Baker 13:46 And by the way, the, the Arab sheikhs led the way, right?

Joe Rogan 13:49 Isn't it crazy-

Mike Baker 13:49 It was their effort.

Joe Rogan 13:50 ... though, that you have to look at things through this lens of who in the furthest left kookiest perspective is going to be offended by this because it's a bunch of white people in the desert? (laughs)

Mike Baker 14:00 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:00 If anything, it should give you a perspective on how unbelievably brutal the times were back then.

Mike Baker 14:05 No, ab- absolutely. And you, and you, and you also, you also think that ... honestly, it's just, look at the cause, look at the reason for it.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Yeah.

Mike Baker 14:14 Right? But I do think, I think that, I think we are on the, on the, uh, on the downhill slope of DEI, right?

Joe Rogan 14:23 Yeah.

Mike Baker 14:23 I think that the, I think the grifters who built up that cottage industry are gonna have to be looking for new jobs, 'cause I think most companies are starting to think, "You know what? Let's get off of this thing."

Joe Rogan 14:32 Yes.

Mike Baker 14:33 So.

Joe Rogan 14:33 I think so too. And I also think that if you look at the overall body of work that they've produced, it's very, um, it's very obvious what many of them are doing. I think there's some-

Mike Baker 14:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:45 ... genuinely good people that are involved in this that really want to do good work.

Mike Baker 14:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:49 They're very sensitive, kind souls. They probably grew up rich.

Mike Baker 14:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:52 Probably grew up rich. Um, but I think there's a lot of, a lot of grifters too.

Mike Baker 14:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:57 Unfortunately. And the grifters, they've, they've been so egregious and obvious that I think it's turned a lot of people off. Even rational, kind, compassionate, progressive people are like, "Enough, this is fucking stupid."

Mike Baker 15:11 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:12 Especially when you hear like the, the anti stuff. It's not just like pro whatever you are, it's anti whatever you're not.

Mike Baker 15:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:21 And then you realize, oh, okay, this is not like ... this is not rational. This is, this is cult-like thinking, and this is a thing where if you don't agree, the, the punishment is very, it's very grave. Like, they'll-

Mike Baker 15:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:35 ... they'll go after you so hard if you don't-

Mike Baker 15:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:37 ... agree with them. And then you kind of realize what it is, like this-

Mike Baker 15:39 And then eventually they start to eat their own.

Joe Rogan 15:41 Yes.

Mike Baker 15:41 And, and so-

Joe Rogan 15:42 You can never be-

Mike Baker 15:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:42 ... progressive enough.

Mike Baker 15:43 No, no, no. The, the, the mob's always going to turn on, on ... no matter who you are and how righteous you pretended to be. Um, so ... and, and I agree with it. Yeah, good people, um, with good intentions, you know, in, mixed in, but I think a lot of people saw this as a terrific opportunity, right? And I also think that what it, what it taught me was that, yes, I am racist. I hate, uh, I hate elite, uh, progressive white people.

Joe Rogan 16:07 (laughs)

Mike Baker 16:07 More than, more ... I just, I can't stand them. It's the one group that I, I would say that I, I just can't stand, because they're very ... there's something about them. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 16:16 I feel sorry for them.

Mike Baker 16:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:17 I feel, I feel-

Mike Baker 16:18 I, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:19 ... I feel like at this point in our, our culture, uh, the divisions are so fucking crazy, and it's so counter to what America should be standing for, which is a, a united states, united country-

Mike Baker 16:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:33 ... a community, a large group of people that all agree on a few very key rules, one of them being freedom. And I think that-

Mike Baker 16:43 Seems logical.

Joe Rogan 16:43 Yeah. It's-

Mike Baker 16:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:44 We got to stop all ... This division is set up not by us. It's set up by world leaders. It's set up by the media. It's set up by the people who benefit from keeping us divided. Most of us agree on a lot ... and one of the things you're seeing is like, from all these USAID disclosures, is the mainstream media cannot ever say that anything this administration is doing is positive. So even if they find unbelievable corruption-

Mike Baker 17:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:11 ... and they've found some really wild shit, like what was the $4.7 trillion in untraceable money?

Mike Baker 17:20 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:21 I sent that to you, right?

Mike Baker 17:22 Yep, yeah, you did. Yeah, that was, that was, uh, Doge, you know, was, um, digging through, um, the ... you know, essentially the way that money is audited within the government. And they look at, um, the, the, the data sets and how things are divided and how you have to explain-

Joe Rogan 17:40 I sent it to Jim.

Mike Baker 17:40 ... what's going on. And the idea is that there's, there, there's a lack of, of links to payments, outgoing payments, um, budget line items. So this payment goes out, what is it for, right? You ... I mean, it would be the same thing if you had a ... well, and I do, I have a business. And in that business, you have to know what you're spending your money on, right?

Joe Rogan 18:02 Yeah.

Mike Baker 18:02 I mean, that's a logical thing. I'm not a rocket scientist. Um, but what they're saying is that they've, they've ... well, there you go.

Joe Rogan 18:09 Yeah, here it is. So it's, "Treasury Access Symbol TAS is an identification code linking treasury payment to a budget line item, standard financial process. In the federal government, the TAS field was optional for $4.7 trillion in payments and was often left blank-" (laughs)

Mike Baker 18:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:27 "... making traceability almost impossible. As of Saturday, this is now a required field, increasing insight into where money is actually going." Um, thanks to US Treasury-

Mike Baker 18:37 Um, it would be like if I-

Joe Rogan 18:37 "... for the great work."

Mike Baker 18:38 If I've got, if I, it would be like if I got my monthly, uh, reports, my monthly numbers from our finance director. Um, and I looked at it and there's the outgoing line, so I can see how much money's going out, but there's nothing that links it to where did it go. Did it go to pay a vendor? Did it go to pay rent? Did it go to pay staff? Did-

Joe Rogan 18:54 Who bought a jet?

Mike Baker 18:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:55 (laughs)

Mike Baker 18:55 Who bought a jet? Yeah. By the way, when a company buys a jet, it's usually, that's a key fraud indicator, right?

Joe Rogan 19:02 If a company buys a jet?

Mike Baker 19:03 If a company buys-

Joe Rogan 19:03 All companies?

Mike Baker 19:04 Yeah, but not all companies.

Joe Rogan 19:04 The UFC bought a jet.

Mike Baker 19:05 Not all companies. Not- not-

Joe Rogan 19:06 (laughs)

Mike Baker 19:07 (laughs)

Narrator 19:07 (laughs)

Mike Baker 19:07 Let me just, let me just make a note of the day, UFC, jet. Um, no it's, what I mean is, uh, obviously it's not like if it's Nike or, you know, an established-

Joe Rogan 19:15 Right.

Mike Baker 19:15 ... you know, la- large business, but-

Joe Rogan 19:16 But you're making so much money-

Mike Baker 19:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:18 ... you can buy a jet.

Mike Baker 19:19 Right. If you're, if you've got a business that, um, in- in a space and it's a growing business or it's a new business or a startup, whatever-

Joe Rogan 19:26 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 19:26 ... um, uh, a purchase of a jet usually is a fraud indicator on the list of all the fraud indicators. But-

Joe Rogan 19:30 Means you cashed in your meme coin.

Mike Baker 19:32 Yeah.

Narrator 19:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:35 (laughs)

Mike Baker 19:35 I'm not cashing mine in.

Joe Rogan 19:35 Have you thought about a Mike Baker meme coin yet?

Mike Baker 19:37 And you know what? That, it's funny that you should say that. No, I haven't, no.

Joe Rogan 19:39 It seems like it's legal gambling is what it is.

Mike Baker 19:42 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 19:42 And it seems like even though it's horrible to do and very unethical to dump it-

Mike Baker 19:48 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 19:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:48 ... to pump and dump it, it seems like that's legal for some weird reason.

Mike Baker 19:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:53 You know, 'cause or, you know, that's the- the- the turmoil around the Hawk Tua coin and that's the fear about the Trump coin.

Mike Baker 20:00 Yeah.

Narrator 20:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:00 And I think, didn't the president of Argentina do a pump and dump as well?

Mike Baker 20:04 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:04 Allegedly?

Mike Baker 20:05 Well, allegedly.

Joe Rogan 20:06 What did he do? What did he do, Jamie?

Narrator 20:07 That is getting way messy this week. I wanna maybe not speculate.

Joe Rogan 20:10 Whoo.

Mike Baker 20:10 Oh, tell me.

Narrator 20:10 There's all sorts of shit going on with that.

Joe Rogan 20:11 What do you think is happening?

Narrator 20:12 Puffyzilla had a video come out-

Joe Rogan 20:14 Of course he did.

Narrator 20:15 ... late last night.

Joe Rogan 20:16 He's the guy you do not want investigating your shit coin. Yeah.

Narrator 20:19 Some guys, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:20 (laughs)

Narrator 20:20 Some guy's admitting to stuff that didn't sound very legal.

Joe Rogan 20:22 They're admitting it?

Narrator 20:23 Yeah, I don't, that's where I was like, I didn't even watch the videos yet. I'm just seeing this stuff on Twitter.

Joe Rogan 20:26 We were trying to figure out is there a way to do it where you don't pump and dump it. Because anybody can kind of make money now, which is so strange.

Narrator 20:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:32 And we're like, we'd make a JRE coin if we... What if we didn't dump it? What if we didn't pump and dump it? Like, what would it be for?

Mike Baker 20:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:38 What would it... How can you just do that? How can you just-

Mike Baker 20:41 Well, the reg- the reg- regulations are- are- are, have not caught up yet.

Narrator 20:45 (laughs)

Mike Baker 20:45 Right? So, and you see that-

Joe Rogan 20:46 No.

Mike Baker 20:46 ... any- any new, any- any- any new, uh, emerging, um, business, industry, technology, you know, you, I- I think there are people who look and go, "There's an opportunity here." Because, you know, regulatory policy hasn't caught up.

Joe Rogan 20:59 Right.

Mike Baker 20:59 And so, you know, Bob's your uncle.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Well, Dave Portnoy's been paying attention to all this, and he's been buying coins and-

Mike Baker 21:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:05 ... tweeting about them and then selling them, and- and he's been making a lot of money. And he's like, "Am I going to jail? Like, what is this?"

Mike Baker 21:10 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 21:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:10 "Like, what is this?" 'Cause, you know, you- you're making real money. I think, didn't he make like a million dollars off of one of them?

Narrator 21:15 I don't know. That's, he's involved in this too now.

Mike Baker 21:18 It reminds me of-

Joe Rogan 21:18 He's involved in what? Which one?

Narrator 21:20 In this, he is.

Joe Rogan 21:20 The- the Argentina thing?

Narrator 21:21 I don't, that, I, that's what I don't know.

Joe Rogan 21:23 Well, fill me in, dog. What's going on?

Narrator 21:24 I'm trying to find out. I don't... Like, there's a, it's called Libra Coin, I think.

Joe Rogan 21:28 Okay.

Narrator 21:28 And I don't know if that's the same as the Argentina coin.

Joe Rogan 21:29 (Laughs) Liberty.

Mike Baker 21:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:30 And I think that's what it is.

Narrator 21:32 They're going through, like, whether or not he knew stuff before, or who told him and what did he know, and...

Joe Rogan 21:37 The Portnoys?

Narrator 21:37 Yeah.

Mike Baker 21:37 And when did he know it?

Narrator 21:38 Yeah, exactly.

Mike Baker 21:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:39 He's pretty careful. He's pretty careful. I doubt, I doubt he did anything illegal.

Narrator 21:43 I, I wouldn't assume so.

Joe Rogan 21:44 Also, he's so wealthy, he doesn't have to do anything illegal.

Mike Baker 21:47 I was gonna say, which-

Joe Rogan 21:48 But then again, people get fucking crazy greedy.

Mike Baker 21:51 They, yeah, they do. How much is- is enough? Uh-

Joe Rogan 21:53 Well, they hang out with other billionaires, that's the problem.

Mike Baker 21:56 Yeah. And you're always comparing yourself to the guy who's got three billion. You got one billion.

Joe Rogan 21:59 Yeah.

Mike Baker 21:59 And you're not... How the fuck can you have that much money and not be happy? That's the part I don't understand.

Joe Rogan 22:02 Well, that's where it gets weird, but I get it.

Mike Baker 22:04 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:04 Like, if I hang out with Elon Musk, I feel poor.

Narrator 22:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:08 (laughs)

Mike Baker 22:08 (laughs) So does everybody else on the planet.

Joe Rogan 22:10 Yeah.

Mike Baker 22:10 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:10 You know?

Mike Baker 22:11 He's still the richest guy, right?

Narrator 22:12 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:12 When you meet, like, really, really rich people, you feel poor.

Mike Baker 22:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:14 Even if you're really wealthy.

Mike Baker 22:16 Well, that's the funny, w- w- that's the funny thing with him. I always think, like, right now, past couple of weeks in particular, seems like people are- are just losing their shit and dropping onto the fainting couch over the idea that he's accessing your- your- your private information, right? What's he gonna do? He's accessing your private information. You think, okay, well first of all, I don't think the guy is- is looking to scam you out of 500 bucks, right?

Joe Rogan 22:36 Right. But he...

Mike Baker 22:36 He's like, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:37 The- the argument's good. Like, he shouldn't be able to scan your information, but-

Mike Baker 22:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:41 ... also is there any evidence that he's doing that? And here's the other question. Who else has access to this? Right?

Mike Baker 22:47 He's just about every company out there.

Joe Rogan 22:48 Well, it turns out, turns out a lot of people have access to this, even students that are interns, who work in the department have access to this.

Mike Baker 22:56 Yeah. Yeah. I think what they're doing is they're-

Joe Rogan 22:57 They're making an argument.

Mike Baker 22:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:58 And it's a good one. Right?

Mike Baker 23:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:00 If you have a... Look, if he was evil.

Mike Baker 23:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:02 If you do have this evil billionaire who wants to control the world and has access to everyone's credit card and just steals all your money, or does whatever.

Mike Baker 23:10 Didn't that used to be Jeff Bezos? I thought, I thought he was the guy who they were focused on, who was the-

Joe Rogan 23:15 Well, they were for a while.

Mike Baker 23:17 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:17 But he's just balling. Jeff is just like hanging out on his yacht.

Mike Baker 23:21 (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:21 He's banging his super hot wife.

Mike Baker 23:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Like, he's having a good time.

Mike Baker 23:24 That sounds, that sounds a lot better than, like, chasing government waste and fraud.

Joe Rogan 23:28 Yeah.

Mike Baker 23:28 Frankly. Yeah. I think Jeff's got it-

Joe Rogan 23:28 And like, remember when Elon Musk was criticizing him for not working hard enough?

Mike Baker 23:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:32 I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Mike Baker 23:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:34 What is work for?

Narrator 23:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:36 Like... (laughs) That guy's getting $200 billion.

Mike Baker 23:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:38 I think you can chill.

Mike Baker 23:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:40 When you get $200 billion, then it's time to get that fucking crazy yacht.

Mike Baker 23:43 Yeah. Once you start launching your own rocket ships.

Joe Rogan 23:45 Yeah, you got a rocket ship like a dick.

Mike Baker 23:47 Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:47 You're- you're literally trying to fuck space.

Mike Baker 23:49 It's Austin Powers.

Joe Rogan 23:50 Yeah. Have a good time.

Mike Baker 23:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:51 I like the way Jeff Bezos is doing it.

Mike Baker 23:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:54 I mean, but I'm, I appreciate the fact that Elon is so psychotic.

Mike Baker 23:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:57 And his drive. It's bizarre. But, and also, in the face of overwhelming hate.

Mike Baker 24:03 Oh my God. It is, it is r- it's, I mean, uh, um, part of me finds it very entertaining. Part of me just looks at it and goes, "All you gotta..." I mean, I think they, what they're having a problem with is two things, is the- the- the messaging and the means of doing this, right?Everybody, you would think, would agree that, oh, you're gonna go through government spending with a fine-tooth comb? You're gonna, you're gonna find the waste and, and abuse and fraud? Fantastic, right?

Joe Rogan 24:26 Well, this is-

Mike Baker 24:27 Everybody gets on board, man.

Joe Rogan 24:27 ... one of the things that Clinton-

Mike Baker 24:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:28 ... ran on.

Mike Baker 24:29 Right. Exa-

Joe Rogan 24:29 And, and implemented during his first term.

Mike Baker 24:32 Actually implemented, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:33 Yeah.

Mike Baker 24:33 There were, uh-

Joe Rogan 24:33 Very effectively-

Mike Baker 24:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:34 ... by the way.

Mike Baker 24:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:35 And it was a huge boon to our economy.

Mike Baker 24:36 Yeah. And, and, but again, the messaging was different.

Joe Rogan 24:39 But it's also, it's-

Mike Baker 24:40 And the means were different.

Joe Rogan 24:41 The Democrats were different. That was a different kind of a Democrat.

Mike Baker 24:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:44 That was the kind of Democrat I would vote for right now.

Mike Baker 24:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:46 I'd vote for Bill Clinton-

Mike Baker 24:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:47 ... despite all the blow jobs and all the crazy shit.

Mike Baker 24:50 W- Well-

Joe Rogan 24:50 (laughs)

Mike Baker 24:50 But you weren't involved in that, so ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:52 I think that they all did that.

Mike Baker 24:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:56 I think you get-

Mike Baker 24:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:56 ... two types of people who want to be president, pussy hounds and warmongers.

Mike Baker 25:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:01 I prefer pussy hounds.

Mike Baker 25:02 Well, but you could be both.

Joe Rogan 25:03 Y- Yes. You could be Genghis Khan.

Mike Baker 25:05 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:08 (laughs) Yeah. You c- you c- you could both.

Mike Baker 25:08 Get you, get used to the pronunciation of Genghis.

Joe Rogan 25:10 Well, that-

Mike Baker 25:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:11 ... I was, um ... Well, actually-

Mike Baker 25:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:12 ... listening to an amazing podcast I'd love to recommend to everybody-

Mike Baker 25:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:14 ... 'cause, uh, Elon recommended it on X, and I've been, uh, listening to it. It's fucking great. Uh-

Mike Baker 25:20 Oh.

Joe Rogan 25:20 ... Fall of Civilizations podcast. They're doing a series on the Mongols right now, uh, Terror in the Steppes, and, uh, I am, uh, listening to it right now, so that's why I'm saying Genghis correctly.

Mike Baker 25:31 Okay. No, that's great. All right. I think I-

Joe Rogan 25:33 Yeah, they even explain the, the-

Mike Baker 25:34 Making a note here.

Joe Rogan 25:35 ... pronunciation.

Mike Baker 25:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:35 They explain where it came from and how, how it got fucked up-

Mike Baker 25:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:38 ... over the years of translation into languages that didn't have Cheng. In ... They didn't have that sound.

Mike Baker 25:44 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:44 And so Chenghis Khan became Genghis Khan, you know?

Mike Baker 25:48 Wow.

Joe Rogan 25:48 Especially when European languages started translating it.

Mike Baker 25:51 Yeah. That makes ... Yeah. Uh, everything I know about Khan, I learned from, uh, Mulan, so-

Joe Rogan 25:56 Do you know they didn't even-

Mike Baker 25:57 No.

Joe Rogan 25:57 ... fucking know about this whole story until the 1800s? They, they found a Chinese book, and the Chinese book was written ... They thought it was nonsense. They, they couldn't figure out what it was saying because it was written where the Chinese characters made the Mongol sounds of the words, and so they had to translate it from Chinese to the Mongolian language, and then they realized this was the history of Genghis Khan and the Khan Empire.

Mike Baker 26:23 Okay. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:24 It's fucky. The, the, the-

Mike Baker 26:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:25 ... secret history of the Mongols.

Mike Baker 26:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:27 It's fucking amazing, this document. This podcast is fantastic.

Mike Baker 26:31 Yeah. I ... That, that's ... That does sound great because a- again, I think, um, when you consider how we're all apparently carrying some of his DNA around-

Joe Rogan 26:38 Not us.

Mike Baker 26:38 Yeah. Not us.

Joe Rogan 26:39 Not Europeans.

Mike Baker 26:40 Not us. Oh, damn it.

Joe Rogan 26:40 Mostly Asians, right?

Mike Baker 26:41 Okay.

Joe Rogan 26:42 Well, I have a little Asian in me.

Mike Baker 26:43 Okay.

Joe Rogan 26:43 I have, like, 1% Asian.

Mike Baker 26:44 Really?

Joe Rogan 26:45 Yeah. Yeah, 1% Asian.

Mike Baker 26:47 Huh.

Joe Rogan 26:48 Close to 2% African. It's like, the, the ... But I'm from Sicily, my, my ancestors-

Mike Baker 26:52 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 26:52 ... and so I think those are the ones that got raped by the Moors. (laughs)

Mike Baker 26:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:58 That's in the movie True Romance. Remember?

Mike Baker 27:00 Oh, yeah. Wait, that was, um-

Joe Rogan 27:01 Remember that scene? Yeah, uh-

Mike Baker 27:02 Christopher Walken.

Joe Rogan 27:03 ... Christian ... Uh, Christian Slater? No, not Christian-

Mike Baker 27:05 No.

Joe Rogan 27:05 ... Slater, uh, Christopher Walken, uh-

Mike Baker 27:08 Um-

Joe Rogan 27:08 Who was it with him?

Mike Baker 27:09 True Romance. There was a whole, there was a whole series of people. Uh, Bruce Dern, I think was in there.

Joe Rogan 27:14 Right. Who's, who's, who's playing-

Mike Baker 27:14 No, no, Dennis Hopper.

Joe Rogan 27:15 Dennis Hopper.

Mike Baker 27:16 Hopper. Dennis Hopper, that's right.

Joe Rogan 27:17 That's right.

Mike Baker 27:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:18 Christopher Walken and Dennis Hopper, right?

Mike Baker 27:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:20 Is that who it was?

Mike Baker 27:20 Yeah, that's who it was. They had, they had a s- they had ... I remember the ... They had a scene together that I remember.

Joe Rogan 27:24 Fuck, that movie's good.

Mike Baker 27:25 Yeah. Uh-

Joe Rogan 27:26 Fuck, that movie's good.

Mike Baker 27:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:27 That is a great fucking movie.

Mike Baker 27:29 But, uh, but yeah, I think, um, i- if, if, if they'd come in, if the administration had come in and said, "Here's what we're going to do. We are going to root out waste and fraud. We're gonna go after, you know, every dollar that's not spent on behalf of the American public and our national security, uh, and advancing American interests, um, and we're gonna do it in this efficient, you know, manner." But, you know, and I ... And again, don't get me wrong. I think sometimes that, you know, the disruption of fast action is, is extremely beneficial at times, and you ... Sometimes you can't see the benefit until other things happen outside the, the bubble that we may be looking in. But I think that, um, if they had, if they had messaged it a little bit differently, and then the ... with means, if ... Rather than taking a blowtorch to everything, um, because ... And, and again, not saying that it can't be effective, but what I'm saying is that they're losing, they're losing, I think, important opportunity from a goodwill perspective, and I know they probably don't give a fuck anymore, but the, the ... All those people who voted, right, for them this time around, gave them that chance, that didn't the previous time, that said, "Oh, fuck it. I'm so done with the Biden administration and all this bullshit." Um, they ... You know, they need to see, I think, more stability, less chaos, and I think the Democrats are very good. I think we all thought perhaps that the, the progressives, the Democrats were just gonna go into a cave and hide.

Joe Rogan 28:49 (laughs)

Mike Baker 28:49 But they're regrouping, right? And they're, they're, they're starting to come back.

Joe Rogan 28:52 They're growing beards.

Mike Baker 28:53 They're growing beards.

Joe Rogan 28:53 They're all getting on testosterone.

Mike Baker 28:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:55 (laughs)

Mike Baker 28:55 Yeah, that's right.

Joe Rogan 28:56 (laughs)

Mike Baker 28:56 Suddenly, the toxic male is, is very attractive.

Joe Rogan 28:59 (laughs)

Mike Baker 28:59 Uh, (laughs) you know? A shame they don't have any. But, um, I think that, uh, I think that if they ... I- I- if you give them ammunition, obviously, they're gonna take advantage of it.

Joe Rogan 29:09 Yeah, for sure.

Mike Baker 29:09 And, and I think some of the, some of the approach to this ... Again, not saying it's wrong in the sense of let's find that, that waste and fraud. Um, but they're giving them opportunities to start firing back.

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Joe Rogan 30:42 Well, the- I think the problem is they're trying to do it very quickly because they wanna get a lot done before the midterms.

Mike Baker 30:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:47 Right? So, they only have 24 months to enact real change.

Mike Baker 30:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:50 And, you know... Did you see Kevin O'Leary, talking about on CNN?

Mike Baker 30:54 Mm-mm, mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 30:55 He was saying they're not doing enough, they should cut more. He's like, if you wanna f- 'cause he's talking about it from an entrepreneur's perspective.

Mike Baker 31:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:00 If you're taking over, like, a failing company that's filled with bloat and waste, and he's like, "That is the government." And he goes, "You gotta cut more." He goes, "Cut everything. Cut it all out."

Mike Baker 31:08 But-

Joe Rogan 31:08 "And then find out what's necessary and rebuild it from there." And it was inter- it was interesting-

Mike Baker 31:11 Well, I, I would argue-

Joe Rogan 31:12 ... 'cause he was saying it on ESP- on, s- excuse me, on CNN. And CNN w- they were like, "Oh!"

Mike Baker 31:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:17 "Oh!"

Mike Baker 31:19 Yeah, yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 31:19 Panties are in a wad.

Mike Baker 31:21 Oh my God. Well, the five people that watch CNN still were probably-

Joe Rogan 31:23 There's probably 20.

Mike Baker 31:24 ... yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:24 But the thing about it is, they're all united in their message.

Mike Baker 31:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:27 Whether it's MSNBC, CN- I watched MSNBC the other day in the gym. Oh my God, it was awesome motivation to work out.

Mike Baker 31:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:33 Because these people looked morbidly obese and they were giving, they, they had this language that they were speaking. It was, like, almost like they were translating from another language. Like, it was all, like, it didn't make sense. It's like, you know, "W- we're in danger. You know, we are..." I- it was the way they were talking, it's like, "My people feel, my people feel like they're in danger, like they're being criminalized."

Mike Baker 31:59 Oh, okay, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:00 "We are, you know, we're being, we're being pushed out of society. We're being told we don't exist." And then, you c- of course, you have to say you're an ally of the LBGTQ+AI.

Mike Baker 32:09 You have to be an ally. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:11 They're digging their heels in on all that stuff, though.

Mike Baker 32:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:14 Which is, it, that's not gonna win anymore. That's, that's too crazy.

Mike Baker 32:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:17 Even, like, kind, progressive people realize, like, you know, you've done a weird thing with, uh, with women's sports. You've done a weird thing with the safety of women-

Mike Baker 32:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:27 ... in bathrooms. And it's not to say that some of these people who are legitimate trans people, who really do just wanna use the women's room and be treated like a woman, that's true too. But you open the door for perverts, and you're not-

Mike Baker 32:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:38 ... admitting that. You open-

Mike Baker 32:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:39 ... the door. You're just allowing guys with beards and hard dicks-

Mike Baker 32:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:42 ... to wander around the women's room. And you-

Mike Baker 32:43 And how, how tough is it to just have a, have a, a, a, whatever, a unisex bathroom? Right? Most places, uh, a lot of places do, right? So, you go, fine, do, do that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:51 As long as it's not a big bathroom.

Mike Baker 32:52 It's like-

Joe Rogan 32:52 The problem is, a group-

Mike Baker 32:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:53 ... if it's all single bathrooms-

Mike Baker 32:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:55 ... but that's not economically feasible-

Mike Baker 32:57 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 32:57 ... at, like, a stadium.

Mike Baker 32:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:58 You know, and that's, that's where it becomes a problem. And then, it's also this, like, weird cultural line where people are like, "Which bathroom do you get to use?" And it's like (snorts) this is, like, a thing in Congress, right? 'Cause-

Mike Baker 33:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:08 ... they got one trans person in Congress, who, by the way, said that they do not want to use the women's room. So, it's not even an issue.

Mike Baker 33:15 Yeah. No, I, I, and, and I think it's-

Joe Rogan 33:17 You notice how I said they?

Mike Baker 33:18 I, I, (laughs) that was-

Joe Rogan 33:19 I was very good, right?

Mike Baker 33:19 You're, you're, you're-

Joe Rogan 33:20 Danced a line.

Mike Baker 33:21 You're very sensitive.

Joe Rogan 33:22 (laughs)

Mike Baker 33:22 People always say that. How- goddamn Rogan is so sensitive. Uh, but I think if, if, yeah, if, most, most folks, right, i- who are in alternative, you know, uh, lifestyles, whate- however-

Joe Rogan 33:33 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 33:33 ... you wanna put it.

Joe Rogan 33:34 Right.

Mike Baker 33:34 I think, yeah, they, they just wanna get on with it, right? They wanna-

Joe Rogan 33:36 Yeah.

Mike Baker 33:36 ... be accepted, um, th- they don't wanna make, you know, uh, people make a fuss over it. They just wanna move on. And then you've got a small minority that just can't seem to get enough attention. And when they can't get enough attention, then they do something e- e- you know, even more wacky, um, but I don't, you know-

Joe Rogan 33:48 Well, I think it's, it's a problem with a l- a lot of the people that are, quote unquote, "leftists" as, in general, is that they've been bullied and picked on all their life, and they've been fucked with, and now they have a gang.

Mike Baker 34:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:01 And now they're gonna go fuck with other people. And that's-

Mike Baker 34:03 Yeah, it's not much of a gang though, is it, really? It's a-

Joe Rogan 34:04 But it's online.

Mike Baker 34:06 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:06 The words-

Mike Baker 34:06 That's true.

Joe Rogan 34:07 ... the words they use online, they s- it's, like, very attacking.

Mike Baker 34:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:11 You know, it's like, this is like, a core aspect of progressives right now online, is that when they're tweeting about stuff and when they're posting about stuff, it's very aggressive and very angry and insulting.

Mike Baker 34:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:26 And that this is, this is their way to demean, whether it's Pete Hegseth or Kash Patel or any of these people that are-

Mike Baker 34:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:34 ... involved, or RFK Jr., any of these people that are involved, and even Tulsi. The- the- it's like the way they're doing it. It's like, it's not about policy or agreeing or disagreeing about perspectives-

Mike Baker 34:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:45 ... or the way they're, m- they're choosing to govern. It's not that. It's like-

Mike Baker 34:50 Well, I think they're angry because, for a while, right, the mob rule was working, right?

Joe Rogan 34:55 Right.

Mike Baker 34:55 And everybody, you know, was, was being, you know, silenced from the bullying, uh, or the fear of being bullied. So-

Joe Rogan 35:02 And it lasted-

Mike Baker 35:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:03 ... for so long.

Mike Baker 35:03 It lasted for years, right?

Joe Rogan 35:05 Years.

Mike Baker 35:05 If you think about it, um-

Joe Rogan 35:06 It lasts until Elon bought Twitter.

Mike Baker 35:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:08 Really, realistically.

Mike Baker 35:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:10 Because if he had not-

Mike Baker 35:10 Yeah, I think that's fair.

Joe Rogan 35:10 If he hadn't done that-

Mike Baker 35:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:11 ... and they were all controlled by the left, do you think Facebook would have, like-

Mike Baker 35:15 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 35:15 ... loosened up their grip?

Mike Baker 35:16 No.

Joe Rogan 35:16 I don't think so.

Mike Baker 35:17 Well, look, Meta, Alphabet, they're all, they're all kind of rewriting, toning down their, their, uh, DEI policies, right?

Joe Rogan 35:23 I think that's also because, uh-

Mike Baker 35:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:25 ... Zuckerberg started doing jujitsu.

Mike Baker 35:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:27 I really do.

Mike Baker 35:28 Right, he started taking testosterone for a-

Joe Rogan 35:29 Yeah, shout out to-

Mike Baker 35:30 ... for a change.

Joe Rogan 35:30 ... Jean-Jacques Machado.

Mike Baker 35:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:31 Jujitsu change your, your mind, man.

Mike Baker 35:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:34 It'll change who you are.

Mike Baker 35:35 Sorry. (laughs) Sorry.

Joe Rogan 35:35 You'll realize, like, there's reality in this world.

Mike Baker 35:38 Yeah. He's looking a lot more manly.

Joe Rogan 35:39 He does.

Mike Baker 35:39 Um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:39 Looking a lot more manly.

Mike Baker 35:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:41 He's got a thick neck now.

Mike Baker 35:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:43 I think that has a lot to do with it, 'cause you start looking at things from a more libertarian perspective, from a merit-based perspective. And-

Mike Baker 35:48 Well, also, you know, you're just, you're, you're burning fuel. You're feeling better, you're, you know-

Joe Rogan 35:53 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 35:53 ... you're focused on something other than your own inner angst, or how do you fit in with this, this... I, uh, again, I, look, everybody just should be able to live their life, uh-

Joe Rogan 36:03 Absolutely.

Mike Baker 36:03 ... and, uh, but-

Joe Rogan 36:04 That's what we all need to concentrate on.

Mike Baker 36:05 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:06 Everybody just live, as long as you're not hurting anybody else with y- the way you live your life-

Mike Baker 36:09 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 36:10 Live your life. If you wanna wear a dress, I'll... God bless you.

Mike Baker 36:12 Yeah, yeah. I, I-

Joe Rogan 36:13 God bless everybody. It's hard to-

Mike Baker 36:14 But-

Joe Rogan 36:15 Just be nice. And I think most of the people, the reason why they're not nice is 'cause people have been not nice to them, you know?

Mike Baker 36:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:20 That's that old expression, hurt people hurt people.

Mike Baker 36:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:23 And the way to, to fucking unite us is not to keep hurting people. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Mike Baker 36:28 No, I think it, and it's simple enough. I don't, I honestly, I don't care if someone's got an alternative lifestyle. Now, I don't need to play along with their imaginary idea that a dude's gonna have a baby or can, you know-

Joe Rogan 36:38 I like

Narrator 36:38 ... breastfeed or whatever. (laughs)

Mike Baker 36:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:40 There's this one, uh, TikTok person who trolls.

Mike Baker 36:43 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 36:44 And I don't even know if it's a biological woman-

Mike Baker 36:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:46 ... 'cause that's, uh, one thing that the trans people are very upset with. There's a lot of, like, really hot OnlyFans girls that are pretending to be trans and they put, like, a fake dick in their underwear.

Mike Baker 36:55 No?

Joe Rogan 36:55 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're, like, super hot. And so the actual trans people are very upset and, get ready for this, their argument is, "My identity is not a costume for you to wear." Like-

Mike Baker 37:07 Wait a minute. Hold on a second.

Joe Rogan 37:09 ... hang on!

Mike Baker 37:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:11 Because... (laughs) That's a real woman, bro. You're already doing that with her.

Mike Baker 37:16 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 37:16 Like, and like she's just got a rubber dick in her pants for money.

Mike Baker 37:20 There's no-

Joe Rogan 37:20 (laughs)

Mike Baker 37:20 ... there really is no... I keep waiting for Jamie to throw one up on the screen. I'm like, "Oh my God." There's no... Yeah, there, there's no, uh, self-awareness happening-

Joe Rogan 37:28 No.

Mike Baker 37:28 ... e- e- with... Or sense of irony, you know.

Joe Rogan 37:29 So, this one lady who's like a... I think it's a lady. I think she's a lady who's a troll, and she said that she went to some country and got, uh, a chromosome change and a, a uterus installed, and now she's pregnant. And she like... (laughs)

Mike Baker 37:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:45 And I just read the comments, and people are fucking going crazy. It's a bunch of like sub-90 people, IQ people in the comments just fucking having strokes.

Mike Baker 37:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:57 (laughs)

Mike Baker 37:57 That's the, that is the best part. When some- when somebody throws some shit out there and people buy into it, right?

Joe Rogan 38:01 Yeah, I love it.

Mike Baker 38:01 And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:02 Well, I buy into some of the dumb ones sometimes.

Mike Baker 38:04 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 38:04 I have to send them to Jamie. (laughs)

Mike Baker 38:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:06 (laughs) And they, and me, and me and Jamie have to sort out, what the fuck is real now? It's so hard to tell. I see things from myself that aren't real.

Mike Baker 38:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:15 I saw me, um, doing... Or I didn't see me, I heard my voice over some narration of something, of some, uh, TikTok story, and I was like, "I never saw this."

Mike Baker 38:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:25 "I never... This is not me saying this." It's all done through AI. I'm like, "This is crazy."

Mike Baker 38:30 Yeah. You're a prime case study for the impact and effects of... And the, sort of the, the, um, you know, the downside of AI, right?

Joe Rogan 38:39 Oh, for sure, with my voice.

Mike Baker 38:40 So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:41 You know, I guess now with video as well, you know, if you wanted to have a podcast video of me doing something, like-

Mike Baker 38:46 Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:47 Yeah, it's-

Mike Baker 38:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:48 It's pretty wild now that... (clears throat) I mean, we have a little bit of a problem where a bunch of people are selling, like, cheap things online and using my voice, and we have to get them removed.

Mike Baker 38:56 Okay, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:57 But that's just, you know, that's just opportunists that are taking advantage. You know, you're-

Mike Baker 39:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:01 I'm selling protein powders that I've never seen before, all that kind of shit.

Mike Baker 39:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:04 They're doing that with my voice.

Mike Baker 39:06 I mean, there's very few. We've talked about it before. There's very few, because the, the idea was always sort of detection, right? Okay, we gotta create better systems to detect deepfakes.

Joe Rogan 39:16 Right.

Mike Baker 39:17 Um, and, but now I think the focus, the focus has rightly shifted from sort of the detection to more proactive, um, protection of material, right? So, so get it at the moment of creation.

Joe Rogan 39:30 Right.

Mike Baker 39:30 Um, embed, uh, the ability within the, the video clip, the audio clip, whatever, to show that you've got, uh, proof of, of, uh, whatever you want to call it, reality, credibility, authenticity. And that's the way it's all going, because you, you just can't keep up with... If all you're doing is trying to create better systems to detect deepfakes, it's a losing game.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Yeah.

Mike Baker 39:51 It's like, it's like battling terrorists, because you know, you're coming up with an IT to prevent a terrorist attack based on the last terrorist attack, and they're onto something else.

Joe Rogan 40:00 Right.

Mike Baker 40:00 So, it's, it's an interesting world. There's not that many companies out there that are doing a great job of it, but, um, there are some.

Joe Rogan 40:06 I think it's, it's gonna get to a point where it's impossible to tell. And I think that's not far away.

Mike Baker 40:11 I think we're there, honestly.

Joe Rogan 40:12 Yeah. It's pretty close.

Mike Baker 40:13 If you think... Most people aren't curious, right? Most people are... Or they don't have time, um, or they're not cynical, right? And so most people are willing to look at something and go, "Yeah." You know? I mean, unless it's just clearly bullshit, but for the most part, if it's, if it's a half-decent, uh, fake, right?

Joe Rogan 40:30 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 40:31 I think most people are, will accept it and move on.

Joe Rogan 40:33 I like the ones that are... They're obvious. They're really good, but they're obvious fakes.

Mike Baker 40:39 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:39 Like, did you see the one with Kamala Harris after she lost the presidency? She's wearing a bikini top, walking with a beer that says "unemployed."

Mike Baker 40:45 Yeah, yeah. That's good.

Joe Rogan 40:46 But it's obvious that it's not real.

Mike Baker 40:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:49 So it's okay. Like the ones where Trump's playing the guitar, and then there's all these other people, like Putin's in the background with the drums. Have you seen that one?

Mike Baker 40:55 Yeah, that is good. There, there's one where I haven't... I don't think I've seen the one with him playing the drums, but I've seen them where there's a whole series of world leaders and they're, they're in a ballad together.

Joe Rogan 41:06 Yeah.

Mike Baker 41:06 Uh, it's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 41:07 Yeah, the one with Trump playing guitar. It's... I think they're doing... It's Fortunate Son, right? It is, right? I think it's on my... It's on my Instagram, right?

Mike Baker 41:15 Creedence Clearwater Revival.

Joe Rogan 41:16 It's so good, and it's obviously fake.

Mike Baker 41:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:19 That's why I like it. It's like, it's not tricking me, but I'm like, "Wow, that's really good."

Mike Baker 41:23 Right. I mean, it's... And it's interesting. I mean, again, talking about regulatory policy not catching up. I mean, it can... What do you do, right?

Joe Rogan 41:29 Right.

Mike Baker 41:29 I mean, like, if you were in Europe, right? You could, you could be fined and jailed, right? For, in a case for like pushing something that's disinformation or whatever. Um, or just-

Joe Rogan 41:40 Or even-

Mike Baker 41:40 Or you're just goofing, right?

Joe Rogan 41:41 Yeah, you can't goof.

Mike Baker 41:43 But it's... But you can't, you know, if it's an obvious... To your point, if it's an obvious goof, then okay, you can probably get away with... Maybe not if you're in Germany or somewhere, but, um...

Joe Rogan 41:51 Germany's going crazy.

Mike Baker 41:52 They are going crazy. And they weren't happy with JD Vance's speech, I'll tell you that much.

Joe Rogan 41:57 I wonder why.

Mike Baker 41:58 Nobody in the EU was happy.

Joe Rogan 41:59 (laughs)

Mike Baker 42:00 The head of the Munich Security Conference literally cried after the speech when they were addressing, um, EU leaders following the speech, right? Talking about, you know, the impact and what it might have meant for US-EU relations and everything. Literally tears being shed over JD Vance's speech.

Joe Rogan 42:18 What was it about his speech in particular that was offensive?

Mike Baker 42:22 Well, I think what they were anticipating at the Munich Security Conference was, he was going to come in, and he was going to talk about, obviously, the number one topic on the table for them was Ukraine. And you know, where are we going with that? Because obviously the EU leaders are now very concerned about US commitment to NATO. Uh, what is the Trump administration, you know, planning on doing in terms of, um, further support for Ukraine, um, really further support for NATO? Uh, are they looking to distance themselves? And Vance instead came in and didn't really focus on any of that shit. He turned it on, onto the European Union, into EU countries and the UK, UK in particular, talking about how...... th- you know, their biggest threat isn't necessarily Russia or China. Their biggest threat is what they're doing to themselves, in terms of suppressing free speech from all the various groups out there, including conservative groups, the far left, whatever, uh, determining that, you know, this, this type of speech is illegal. "We're gonna pursue you, we're gonna fine you, we're going to jail you." Um, armed raids against people that are, you know, pushing content online. Um, so he made it-

Joe Rogan 43:26 Including anti-immigrant content, right?

Mike Baker 43:28 Anti-immigrant content.

Joe Rogan 43:29 That's a big one.

Mike Baker 43:29 But to be fair, right, I mean, m-most of Europe at this point is pretty (laughs) fed up with the, the-

Joe Rogan 43:34 Yeah.

Mike Baker 43:34 ... immigration policies that the, their leaders have-

Joe Rogan 43:36 Which is why-

Mike Baker 43:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:37 ... they wanna suppress the, the dissent online.

Mike Baker 43:39 Exactly. So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:40 They're not doing it because they genuinely think this is a moral and ethical thing to do.

Mike Baker 43:44 No.

Joe Rogan 43:44 They're doing it because they sense an uprising.

Mike Baker 43:46 Yeah. And, and, a- and they rightly should.

Joe Rogan 43:47 Yeah.

Mike Baker 43:47 Look, Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor, he's not getting reelected. And their election is coming up here in, shortly.

Joe Rogan 43:52 Yeah.

Mike Baker 43:52 And, um, so he's not, it's, that, not gonna happen for him. Um, so I think, yeah, they're rightly, th, with... Not rightly, but they are concerned about, uh, their own political power. That's, that's not, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:02 That's what it is, and that's what people need to understand. It's not-

Mike Baker 44:04 It's not rocket science, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:05 It's not, it's not that the Europeans are the kinder, more progressive... No, there's like-

Mike Baker 44:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:10 They understand that it's coming.

Mike Baker 44:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:12 And they wanna do everything they can to stop it because most people are fed up.

Mike Baker 44:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:16 Mo- most people just wanna be left the fuck alone.

Mike Baker 44:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:18 And if you tell them that they can't put a flag meme on one of their Facebook pages or they get arrested-

Mike Baker 44:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:25 ... which is what happened in Germany.

Mike Baker 44:26 Yeah, yeah. Or talk about A, uh, so if you talk about, uh, the immigration problem and you say, "Look, we gotta stop this. We gotta, you know, maybe secure borders." Um, if you talk about the Ukraine war and say, "I don't think we should be supporting, you know, dumping more resource into Ukraine."

Joe Rogan 44:40 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 44:40 Uh, all those things, or reproductive rights, if you're on the wrong side of that from a European perspective, you know, they're coming after you in a se- And so that's what JD Vance came after. He turned the tables on them and focused on that. And that was, A, it was completely unexpected, and B, I think, you know, the reality of it, the fact that it's truthful, I think upset a lot of them. He, he-

Joe Rogan 44:59 It's truthful and it also appeals to their citizens. That's the thing.

Mike Baker 45:03 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:03 The citizens say-

Mike Baker 45:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:04 "This is the way we want our government to talk."

Mike Baker 45:07 Yeah. And I think it's funny because a lot of people on... (laughs) You know, there's a lot of people on social media right now going, "Oh my God, you don't realize how hated, you know, you are now as Americans." And, "The US is so hated." And no... Think, look, I spent most of my time overseas, right? And most people are going, "Yeah, this seems like it's common sense. You guys are finally coming around." Right? And so I, I, I, I don't think they're gonna win the argument that somehow the US is more hated. Look, we've been hated in a variety of locations.

Joe Rogan 45:32 But we definitely-

Mike Baker 45:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:33 ... are hated in Canada right now.

Mike Baker 45:34 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:35 See their hockey game? (laughs)

Mike Baker 45:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:37 They were booing-

Mike Baker 45:38 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 45:38 ... the national anthem so hard.

Mike Baker 45:39 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 45:40 And then they get in three fights in the first nine minutes.

Mike Baker 45:42 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:43 And then we kick Canada's ass... Sorry, Canada. I- in Canada, which is not good-

Mike Baker 45:48 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:48 ... because that's their fucking sport.

Mike Baker 45:49 It is their sport, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:49 That's basically their only shot at beating us at anything.

Mike Baker 45:51 Yeah. Well, cur- curling.

Joe Rogan 45:53 Well, they're not going... They might be able to win at that.

Mike Baker 45:54 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:54 But if we practice it, we'd be better at that too.

Mike Baker 45:56 (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:57 Like, they, they make great-

Mike Baker 45:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:58 ... mixed martial arts fighters.

Mike Baker 45:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:59 One of the greatest of all time, Georges St-Pierre is from Canada.

Mike Baker 46:02 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:02 But after that, uh, let's be-

Mike Baker 46:04 Let me think.

Joe Rogan 46:05 Get your football team, come fuck with America. (laughs)

Mike Baker 46:07 (laughs) I'm trying, I'm trying to think of other things that I could throw out there.

Joe Rogan 46:09 Nothing.

Mike Baker 46:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:10 Maybe baseball, they good.

Mike Baker 46:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:11 The Blue Jays are really good.

Mike Baker 46:12 Molson.

Joe Rogan 46:13 Yeah.

Mike Baker 46:13 Mmm.

Joe Rogan 46:13 They, they have strong beer.

Mike Baker 46:15 Yeah, they got good beer.

Joe Rogan 46:15 They have great people. I love Canada.

Mike Baker 46:17 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:17 I love the people.

Mike Baker 46:17 Likewise. Yeah, I, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:18 It's just they, they're too nice and they let communists run their country.

Mike Baker 46:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:22 And that guy's a communist.

Mike Baker 46:23 Well, I, it, it is, it, it is one of those moments where you think, "Okay, I, I understand. I get your point," you know, the talk about turning Canada into a 51st state.

Joe Rogan 46:31 That's a little crazy. (laughs)

Mike Baker 46:32 That's a little crazy. It's a little crazy.

Joe Rogan 46:34 He's serious!

Mike Baker 46:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:35 He told me on the phone-

Mike Baker 46:36 Yeah! (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:36 ... he was serious.

Mike Baker 46:37 Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 46:37 "At first I was joking around, but then I was thinking maybe it's not a bad idea."

Mike Baker 46:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:42 Now, I think he keeps talking to 'em, refers-

Mike Baker 46:44 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 46:44 ... to him as Governor Trudeau. It's so funny.

Mike Baker 46:47 (laughs) You know what I love is, is they... I, I, I was just out in the Middle East, uh, for some, some things, including the, the, the amazing, uh, trek, uh, with the guys from the SF Club. And, um, it was, it... Right during the period of time when, uh, President Trump announced his idea during that press conference with Netanyahu-

Joe Rogan 47:05 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 47:05 ... (clears throat) about, "Look, we're gonna, we're gonna own, the US is gonna own, uh, Gaza."

Joe Rogan 47:09 Did you see the look on Netanyahu's face when he was saying that?

Mike Baker 47:11 Yes.

Joe Rogan 47:11 Netanyahu's like-

Mike Baker 47:12 Which was priceless.

Joe Rogan 47:12 ... "What in the fuck-"

Mike Baker 47:14 I know. And now-

Joe Rogan 47:15 "... did I get into?"

Mike Baker 47:15 And now you know what they're all doing? The Israeli cabinet is fully on board with the idea, in part because I think they understand that, okay, look, this is probably not gonna happen, but if we take this position, right, it's, it's going to create m- chaos. It's gonna create some movement, right?

Joe Rogan 47:30 Oh, yeah.

Mike Baker 47:30 And maybe that leads to something of interest. And I think when (laughs) being out in the Middle East, when that idea came out and hearing some of the responses from, from people out there was-

Joe Rogan 47:39 Oh...

Mike Baker 47:39 ... was amazing. But, uh, it, what I, what I like about it... Look, you're not gonna move 2.3 million Palestinians outta Gaza, right? Because n- none of the Arab states want them. The Egyptians have fought against this idea for years and years and years.

Joe Rogan 47:53 That's a good point and something that maybe a lot of people aren't aware of, is that, uh, the wall on the side of Egypt is way bigger than the wall on the side of Israel.

Mike Baker 48:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:02 That, that is an impenetrable wall that's heavily guarded. They do not want Palestinians coming-

Mike Baker 48:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:07 ... into Egypt, which is kind of crazy.

Mike Baker 48:09 Well, it's a... From their perspective, look, it's, it's a security issue. And, and-

Joe Rogan 48:11 Yeah.

Mike Baker 48:12 ... there's, there's a lot of Palestinian refugees in Jordan. So it's not like Jordan hasn't tried to do their part. Um, but they also... What are they gonna do? Absorb another million, two million Palestinians? No. So the, the, the problem from a, from an operational perspective is, is it's, it's unlikely to, to happen, right? And also, do you really want the US buying and owning Gaza, right, and then being out there? You think that, you think that the cost of, of supporting Ukraine is high. Wait till you see what the cost of not only the reconstruction, but the security of the reconstruction, right? What that's going to mean. You think, you think there was a boon in private security contractors during the Iraq incursions? This will be-

Joe Rogan 48:52 (clears throat)

Mike Baker 48:52 (laughs) you know, this will make that look like nothing.

Joe Rogan 48:54 Right.

Mike Baker 48:55 So-

Joe Rogan 48:55 Because they gotta guard their investments.

Mike Baker 48:56 So they... Exactly. So the costs involved, the potential for, you know, just never ending, um-

Joe Rogan 49:01 Bullshit.

Mike Baker 49:01 ... trouble. But, but what I do like about it is, look, now the...... the Arab states are responding by having a summit, right? They're having a summit at the end of this month, and they've already, they've been having little mini-discussions amongst themselves, but, but, uh, all the key players in the area are now meeting to discuss, what's an alternative, right? What, what is the way to make this happen? And, y- you know, it's not going to be by the US owning it and building the Riviera, right? Or, or a series of casinos. But, um, the Arab states are, are, are having to react. And they're... And so what that means is nothing's worked beforehand, right? Nothing in t- the two-state, you know, option, um, other security agreements, peace agreements that have held for some period of time and then fallen apart. None of that shit's worked. So I think the, the, the, sort of the disruptive aspect of sometimes of what Trump does, even though you may look at the idea on the surface and go, "Ugh, it's not gonna work," you have these other effects, right? And so now you've got the Arab states having to respond, coming up with these ideas. They're already, over the past couple of days, saying, "Well, Hamas can't play a role." If you had said that a year ago, uh, Egypt and Qatar and some of these other Arab states out there would have gotten on board with the idea that Hamas has got to go, it would n- it, that wouldn't have happened, right? I mean, uh, before the 7 October attacks and things, but they-

Joe Rogan 50:22 Right. They're also talking about rebuilding it themselves.

Mike Baker 50:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:25 They, they're like, "We'll, we'll do it. We'll do it. Just back off."

Mike Baker 50:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:28 "We'll do it. We'll take care of it."

Mike Baker 50:29 Which is great, that, um-

Joe Rogan 50:30 And that's when they have to say Hamas can't be a part of it.

Mike Baker 50:33 Right. That's b- because they know what the problem is.

Joe Rogan 50:35 Yeah.

Mike Baker 50:35 And they, they, they haven't been willing to admit it before, but because the Trump administration just thrown (laughs) stuff at the wall, right? To see what sticks, they've got to respond. And so now they're, they're, they're coming up with these ideas. Look, Hamas, um, (sighs) you know, they, they are a shell of what they were, right? But they're still supported by the Iranian regime, which is a big problem, right? And, and the Iranian regime, you know, do you think... They, they, they don't want peace. They don't want stability, right? That's, that's not in the books. One of the benefits from their perspective of the 7 October attacks was that it, it, it completely scuttled the, the normalization talks that were going on between Saudi and, and Israel and the US at the time. So, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna continue to be a problem. But Hamas, uh, you know, is, is now kind of on its back foot. Uh, the Palestinian Authority is, is saying, "Well, we'll come in and we'll govern Gaza." While the Israelis are saying, "No, no, that's not gonna happen either because you guys are, you know, peas in a pod." Right? And, and, you know, uh, Palestinian Authority has a program where they actually pay the families of people who kill Israelis, right? What's... It's called the Pay to Slay program.

Joe Rogan 51:45 Really?

Mike Baker 51:45 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:46 That's what it's called?

Mike Baker 51:47 Yup. Pay to Slay.

Joe Rogan 51:49 How much do you get paid?

Mike Baker 51:50 Uh, you know what? I'm not sure (laughs) what the going rate is now, but, um, you know, for out there, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a payment, uh, ongoing payments to families who have family members who have attacked, uh, wounded, or killed Israelis. And so, you know, uh, uh, that plus, you know, other ties between Hamas and, and the PA... And look, there's been animosity, obviously. Hamas drove the Palestinian Authority out of Gaza years ago. But, you know, the Israelis see it as, as the same. And so, you know, my point being is the Arab states are now reacting, and you could end up with something that actually works as opposed to all the bullshit in the past that never did work and always... And, uh, uh, it continued to, you know, provide nothing for the Palestinian people. And if, you know, if you say, "Look, all this is about is we want the Palestinians to live a better life," then you should want new ideas thrown at the wall, right? And you should want something that eventually is going to work. And from a US perspective, you should want something where the Arab states actually take it on board themselves.

Joe Rogan 52:50 The also- the... There's also a problem with the reality of the region at this point, right? It's like, what do you want to happen to that area? 'Cause someone has to rebuild it. The, uh... Look, absolutely Israel shouldn't have done what they did and-

Mike Baker 53:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:03 ... and kill who knows how many innocent people and literally destroy most of the buildings there. We all can agree that's a horrible thing, but it's done.

Mike Baker 53:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:13 So now what?

Mike Baker 53:14 Yeah. And, and we can also agree that it was not. Look, yeah, I agree, um, it was a very aggressive action. I would argue that the US would engage in that same aggressive action if we had had, uh, a, a proportionate, you know, attack on-

Joe Rogan 53:28 From Mexico or something like that.

Mike Baker 53:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So... Or Canada.

Joe Rogan 53:31 Right. Ugh.

Mike Baker 53:32 Goddamn Canadians. Uh, they're plotting something. I just know it.

Joe Rogan 53:36 (laughs)

Mike Baker 53:36 So if (laughs) , if, um, you know, so, so that's true, but again, it was a war that Hamas started, right? They, you know, I think you have to go back to the beginning of this one. And yes, there's fault on both sides, of course, but, you know, Hamas now a- at times has been acting like the aggrieved party, right?

Joe Rogan 53:53 It's, it's fuck around and find out-

Mike Baker 53:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:55 ... in the worst way possible.

Mike Baker 53:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:57 That's what it is.

Mike Baker 53:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:58 I mean, they gave Israel the green light to just go ham, and now when you see the overhead drone footage of what Gaza looks like now, it's hard to even believe that it's real. It's- everything's gone.

Mike Baker 54:10 Oh, yeah, which is, which I, I get it. I mean, from a real estate developer's perspective, I'm sure he's seen overhead imagery, right?

Joe Rogan 54:15 They're gonna turn it into the Mediterranean, the Middle East.

Mike Baker 54:18 (laughs) This looks like a demolition site, so let's, let's clear it out.

Joe Rogan 54:21 The real-

Mike Baker 54:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:21 ... question is, if that doesn't, okay, then what? Then what-

Mike Baker 54:24 What-

Joe Rogan 54:24 If you don't want that to happen, then what? If the United States doesn't take it over, or, or who, who should, and what do you do with it? And how do you get the money to rebuild it? And where does it come from and how do you do it? Who, who, who do you bring in to rebuild it? Who governs it? How does that work? Who gets what building? How does it work?

Mike Baker 54:43 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:43 You know, there's, it's a very complicated thing when you destroy an entire fucking city-

Mike Baker 54:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:48 ... which is the... See if you can find some of that overhead footage, Jamie.

Mike Baker 54:51 Well... And when you, yeah, and when you're talking about m- you know, moving out 2.3 million people to other areas.

Joe Rogan 54:55 Yeah.

Mike Baker 54:56 Um, but I... Look, I think, again, the answer is that the, the Arab states have to take this on, right? They finally have to address this issue. They've used the Pales- some of them have used the Palestinian issue to their own devices, uh-

Joe Rogan 55:08 Here it is. Look at this.

Mike Baker 55:08 ... without doing anything to their benefit of the Palestinians.

Joe Rogan 55:10 Look at this footage. This is-

Mike Baker 55:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:13 ... unbelievable.I mean, this looks like they got hit with an asteroid.

Narrator 55:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:18 It's-

Mike Baker 55:18 Unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 55:19 ... unbelievable, the scope of it. It's just insane.

Narrator 55:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:23 It's insane to see.

Narrator 55:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Dave Smith had a very good take on this. He was on one of those Piers Morgan-

Narrator 55:31 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:31 ... everybody yells at everybody panels, which are really fun for about five minutes.

Narrator 55:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:35 But let me, uh-

Narrator 55:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:36 ... send Jamie what Dave said. 'Cause Dave had, in my opinion, the best take on this.

Narrator 55:42 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:42 Where it's like, you, you see, you're like, "Okay, yeah. That's, that's correct. This is, uh... This is the way to look at it, I think."

Narrator 55:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:51 'Cause it's like, yeah, it-

Mike Baker 55:54 It's f- it's... Look, it's, it... A- again, I think you ha- u- unless... I don't know who would be on board, um... Take the, take it from, you know, their, uh, beyond the sort of the initial sentence of the ow- you know, US will take ownership.

Narrator 56:08 I'm guessing-

Mike Baker 56:08 Oh, here we go.

Narrator 56:09 I'm guessing this is it. I don't know if I-

Mike Baker 56:11 Is that Dean Cain on the right? No.

Narrator 56:14 Yeah.

Mike Baker 56:15 It is?

Joe Rogan 56:16 Yes. It is.

Mike Baker 56:16 Superman.

Narrator 56:17 I don't know if this is the right rant. I just... I didn't click it from you.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Yeah.

Narrator 56:19 I'll click the one you sent, if you just send it.

Joe Rogan 56:20 Yeah, click the one I sent.

Narrator 56:22 All right.

Joe Rogan 56:22 It might... It's probably the same one.

Mike Baker 56:26 (laughs) I don't... Sometimes I love these Piers Morgan panels. You never know who you're gonna s- show up in one of those boxes. And it's a bizarre mix of people.

Narrator 56:34 Yeah. Uh...

Mike Baker 56:37 Okay.

Narrator 56:40 10... Yeah, it's the same one.

Mike Baker 56:41 This is like the commentary for Wimbledon where we just don't say anything.

Narrator 56:45 Pictures of Gaza. Are you telling me-

Mike Baker 56:47 Yeah.

Narrator 56:47 ... there was Hamas w- there were Hamas missiles in every single one of those buildings? That, that's the entirety of the story, is that Israel just had to blow up this building? Which, by the way, still, I don't think would be morally justified. But like, come on, man. L- look, like, it's just... A- again, even to Dean's point, I always find this fascinating because somehow Americans could say this about the people in Hamas and go like... You, you know, like you said, "Yeah, I wouldn't like to be kicked out of my neighborhood, but if my, if my government had done October 7th, I'd accept it." Your government, Dean, destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, uh, the drone bombing campaign in Pakistan. So like what are... Can you get kicked out of your house now? Is it not ethnic cleansing if we were to kick you out of your neighborhood? This is so ridiculous that we impose these standards on these poor people, that we would never dream of holding ourselves to that (laughs) standard. It's just... It logically makes absolutely no sense. And it doesn't really matter what Hamas' approval rating is, in the same way that it doesn't matter that George W. Bush had record high approval ratings. That doesn't mean that the innocent civilians of the United States of America are fair game and neither should any other group of civilians be.

Joe Rogan 57:55 Perfectly said.

Mike Baker 57:56 Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, look, if you could do surgical strikes and do nothing but kill Hamas terrorists, great, right?

Joe Rogan 58:03 Yeah.

Mike Baker 58:03 Um, but, you know, i- i- that's not the real world. Dave, you know, Dave's talking about a world that we don't exist in.

Joe Rogan 58:09 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 58:09 Right? I would argue. Like... And, but that's... this is where we would differ. I like Dave Smith a lot, and I think he's incredibly intelligent. Um, but, you know, we fundamentally look at things sometimes in a different worldview because of our experiences, right? And my experience has been dealing with (laughs) a lot of hostile actors who, you know, you may look at and think, "Okay, well, can't we just..." I don't say we'll get along, but they exist and we exist and do we really... Uh, th- there... That's not the world we work in, right? And, and urban combat is really ugly. It's not dismissing, you know, the, the horrific nature of it and the fact that yeah, sure, in a perfect world, it's morally repugnant and it is, you know, but it's the world that we live in. So I think, okay, on one hand, I, I, I get what he's saying and I, and I don't disagree on that moral side of things, but, you know, from my background, I don't tend to live in that world. I tend to live in sort of the operational side of things. And, you know, you, you... Sometimes you have to do things that are not good.

Joe Rogan 59:07 But even as extreme as that?

Mike Baker 59:09 Well, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:10 That's the thing. It's like it's so extreme.

Mike Baker 59:13 I don't... Yeah. Oh, oh, I know. And, and, and I, and I don't disagree. And they have... Uh, they, they went above and beyond.

Joe Rogan 59:18 Right.

Mike Baker 59:18 There's no doubt about it. Um, but to my point, and I think to kind of what he was saying, look, we... You know, if, if... We did after 9/11, right? And we, we went above and beyond-

Joe Rogan 59:29 Right.

Mike Baker 59:29 ... from a proportionate standpoint and we felt certainly justified in doing it, right? We did... I mean, we did. I mean, A- America finally came together as a group, right? As opposed to sort of the partisan way that we live now. But, um-

Joe Rogan 59:41 But we were justified based on a lie, which is even crazy 'cause they used that justification and went after a group of people that had nothing to do with it-

Mike Baker 59:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:49 ... based on a lie of weapons and mass destruction.

Mike Baker 59:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:52 Which is even crazier, right?

Mike Baker 59:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:53 We went to a completely different country.

Mike Baker 59:54 Yeah. Well, I think Hamas, uh, uh, also... You know, these, these are disjointed statements and I'm not really tying it all together very well at all. But, um, but, you know, there's also this element that Hamas doesn't give a shit about the Palestinian citizens, right? The civilians, I mean. And, you know, if they did, they wouldn't conduct their, their operations. Their methodology would be different, right? They wouldn't, they wouldn't bury themselves in their operations and their command centers and e- everything that they do, right? Their, their depots, their, their missile, weapons supply, uh, centers within the public, uh, environment, right? They, they just wouldn't, right? They-

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 Well, they probably never expected this.

Mike Baker 1:00:34 Um, yeah. I don't know. I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 There's no way they would-

Mike Baker 1:00:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 ... have done October 7th if they expected this response.

Mike Baker 1:00:40 Well, there's no way the Iranian regime, I think, would have allowed them to do this if they, if they anticipated they would get this sort of response. So I think you're right. Um, but, you know... And again, I'm... You know, this is the, this is the problem. People... The people only hear what they wanna hear, right? So they hear, they hear me say from an operational perspective, I kinda... I understand that they had an aggressive response and yet... But then they stop listening, right? So what I'm saying is, it w- was it over the top? Well, yes, it was over the top. And could they have been more surgical about this? Well, yes, they certainly could have. Um, could they have prevented, uh, some loss of civilian life? Well, yes. Would, would have that been a difficult? Well, yes. Why? Because Hamas puts themselves in the center of civilian life there. They know this is what's gonna happen. This is their currency, dead Palestinians. Yeah, that drives their narrative and they always know it's going to turn against the Israelis as we're having these discussions. That's what happens. And they've got enough of a track record to know that's what's gonna happen. So they use it to their advantage. But, you know, again, it doesn't excuse the killing. I keep coming back to that same thing. You could have, you know, disparate multiple, you know, thoughts in your head at the same time, right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 1:01:42 You can feel bad about that and at the same time you can go, "Yeah, it was fucked up what they did on 7th October. You're gonna go after Hamas." And then what you're gonna find is that urban combat is really, really f-... fucking ugly, right? And you're gonna have casualties that you really, really regret having. Um, were there more than, than needed? I would say yes. They didn't need the extent of their response, but I understand their mindset for, for why they went so hard after Hamas. This is decades and decades, you know, built up saying, "No more," right?

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 Right.

Mike Baker 1:02:13 "We can't put up with this anymore." Now again, the problem is, you know ... The problem is not that they ... It's, it's not really Hamas. I keep coming back to the same thing. The problem is that the instigator of all this trouble, the instigator of the vast majority of, of, of, of chaos and instability and violence and death in that region is the Iranian regime. Most Arab states will agree to that. Maybe not the Yemenis, right? Um, you know, but most of those Arab states are not gonna be sad to see the Iranian regime fall, for this very reason. Everybody wants a better life, right? However they perceive it. And the Iranian regime, you know, the mullahs and the IRGC, you know, they've got a stated objective, and they are pursuing that. As long as those people are in charge, right, you know, ultimately, we're not gonna get a big sea change here. We're not gonna get a huge shift in, in the way things go. But if you want a better life, then you gotta look to the, to the whatever you wanna call it, the head of the snake or the, you know, the top of the mountain. There they are, the Iranian regime driving a lot of this chaos. So anyway, I'm getting away from the point, but I don't disagree with Dave. I, I always like a lot of the things that he says. I just think that we come at it sometimes from a much different perspective. I don't tend to believe that the world is full of, of, uh, good actors who are just trying to create a community of nations.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 I don't think that's his perspective either.

Mike Baker 1:03:32 I don't, I ... Well, yeah. Um, yeah, I'm not putting it, I'm not putting it well, but I think what I mean is that there's ... It's not ... What I, w- I was having a conversation the other day, and it was about, um, it was about US involvement in a variety of groups, activities, associations over the years looking to topple governments, looking to change, you know, um, uh, uh, the direction of a, of a government. L- you know, all the nefarious things that the CIA has been accused of over the years. And, you know, I was like, "Well, goddamn, what did, what, what, what do you expect? Of course that's what we're doing," right? Of course we're, of course we're trying to influence hearts and minds. Of course we're infiltrating organizations to try to influence the direction of a government that, you know, you go all the way back to the Cold War, right? We were convinced the Russians or the Soviets were gonna blow us to hell, right? Of course we're gonna be doing a variety of things. You want a government over there that's more friendly to you? Okay, how are we gonna go about doing that, right? If that means VOA, or Voice of America, or that means infiltrating some organization that's gonna try to win them? Yeah. So, y- you know, is that morally repugnant? I don't know. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 But you think it's necessary?

Mike Baker 1:04:44 I think there's, there's a ... I think it's understandable, uh, and I think also, um ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 So what ... Imagine a world without that.

Mike Baker 1:04:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 So if that is a vacuum, and we stop doing that-

Mike Baker 1:04:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 ... entirely, altogether-

Mike Baker 1:04:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 ... does that vacuum get filled up by another power?

Mike Baker 1:05:02 Yeah. Yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 Yeah.

Mike Baker 1:05:03 I think that's, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 This is the problem, right?

Mike Baker 1:05:04 That's the problem, is that we, we don't live in a world of benign nations who, like, if we're not the police, you know, at the top of the, the food chain, uh, nobody needs to be there. Someone's gonna fill that, that gap, and they're, and you know what? Um, maybe I'm, maybe I'm wrong. I'm d- I ... But I've been around a long time, and I've spent most of it overseas in unusual places. Um, we make a lot of mistakes as a country. It's a human endeavor. But we do try to correct, and it can take time, right?

Joe Rogan 1:05:32 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 1:05:32 It can take a lot of time. We make a lot of mistakes. Of course we do. But, uh, I've seen a lot of (laughs) players out there, and I'd rather have us and our allies trying to direct traffic rather than some of the hostile actors that are out there, 'cause I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 This is, uh, the best case scenario perspective.

Mike Baker 1:05:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 Worst case scenario perspective is that these policy changes that we are, uh, initiating and that we are, uh, influencing is for corporations to make more money. It's to control resources and to control areas and to make things friendlier for business. That's w- the worst case scenario, is this is done in-

Mike Baker 1:06:10 Well, that's what-

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 ... a mercenary fashion.

Mike Baker 1:06:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 But is that-

Mike Baker 1:06:13 But that's what-

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 Just-

Mike Baker 1:06:13 I mean, that's what-

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 But is that just-

Mike Baker 1:06:14 ... the Chinese regime?

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 Sure, right.

Mike Baker 1:06:15 That's just, that's what ... And I would argue, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 But is that ... But here's my question.

Mike Baker 1:06:17 Yes, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 Is that just what happens, like when you do have the ability to control other regimes, isn't it almost ... Doesn't it al- almost logical that you are, you're gonna need a lot of money, and you're gonna need a lot of influence to do that.

Mike Baker 1:06:34 Hm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 And so there's gonna be a bunch of people that say, "Actually, we could use some of those minerals."

Mike Baker 1:06:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:39 "Actually, you know, that natural gas is very valuable."

Mike Baker 1:06:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:42 "Actually, if we could de- destabilize Russia's energy systems and, you know-"

Mike Baker 1:06:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 "... pump up Ukraine's and control it, that'd be pretty good."

Mike Baker 1:06:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 And so then we start initiating things, and we start th- the coup in Ukraine in 2014 and a bunch of different things. We start helping things along that would-

Mike Baker 1:07:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:01 ... benefit us both geopolitically, but also geopolitically in the sense that, like, you're controlling the geology of the land, which is the real term geopolitical, right?

Mike Baker 1:07:10 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 That's the real term, right? Doesn't it have to do with, uh, m- like, controlling regions and-

Mike Baker 1:07:15 Well, sure. Yeah, and I think that it's, um ... Yeah, you're talking about national self-interest.

Joe Rogan 1:07:20 Right.

Mike Baker 1:07:21 I think in, in the world that we actually live in, every country is acting in its own self-interest. So-

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 But then it's also-

Mike Baker 1:07:29 And it-

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 ... national self-interest that's kind of prostituted by corporations. This is what, what people are worried about, is that we engage in certain activity that's avoidable, simply for profit.

Mike Baker 1:07:42 Uh, y- yes, absolutely. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I think, look, um-

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 Which is what happens when you have a system like this, right?

Mike Baker 1:07:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 When you can-

Mike Baker 1:07:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 ... influence-

Mike Baker 1:07:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:51 ... foreign governments, and you do have enormous amounts of resources, and you do ...... have the ability to m- change things and install a government that's more friendly to s-

Mike Baker 1:08:01 But if you're, but if you're not going to do that... Let, uh, let me go back to the-

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 Okay.

Mike Baker 1:08:05 I'll go to the Cold War, because that's probably-

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Right.

Mike Baker 1:08:06 ... our best example of-

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 Okay.

Mike Baker 1:08:08 ... of