Joe Rogan Experience #2278 - Chase Hughes

1. 0:00 – 1:35

   Chase Hughes’ temporal lobe epilepsy and discovering methylene blue

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music)

   3. CHChase Hughes0:14

      Hey, man.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you.

   5. CHChase Hughes0:16

      Man.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      We're debuting these, uh, mugs. My friend, uh, Turkey Merc on Instagram sent me these Cheshire cat mugs. Isn't that badass?

   7. CHChase Hughes0:22

      Yeah. That's really good.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      Thought it'd be good for you, 'cause we're, you know, we're talking about mind fucks. Cheshire cat's a little bit of a mind fuck. (laughs)

   9. CHChase Hughes0:29

      In the simulation.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Yeah, for sure. So, uh, you were just telling me that you had a brain disease.

   11. CHChase Hughes0:38

       Okay.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       And you... What did you do to fix it?

   13. CHChase Hughes0:42

       So, I, uh-

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       What was it, first of all?

   15. CHChase Hughes0:45

       Uh, it's temporally epilepsy with mesial temporal sclerosis.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       When did you develop this?

   17. CHChase Hughes0:51

       We don't know, but, uh, I started having seizures, like, a few years ago. And everybody in my family knows I'm a neuroscientist. I say with a lowercase N, not a PhD neuroscientist, but, uh ...

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       But you studied neuroscience?

   19. CHChase Hughes1:04

       Yeah. I, I post-grad at Harvard and, and Duke. But, uh, they assumed, you know, Chase has studied all this stuff. He's gonna know if he's having seizures. But these seizures come with amnesia. So, I didn't remember that I was having any of 'em. And this is, like, three years ago. I had retired from the military and then started having these seizures. So, then I, I found a neurologist, the, the drug that they gave me, the number one side effect was seizures.

2. 1:35 – 7:36

   How methylene blue works: MAOI effects, mitochondria, and red-light synergy

   1. CHChase Hughes1:35

      Of the, from this pharmaceutical company. So, I, I kind of looked around and I found this guy's a functional medicine guy, and he got me on, uh, methylene blue to start off. And I know Mel Gibson was on here talking about it.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:49

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CHChase Hughes1:49

      And that instantly stopped everything. And, uh, some other stuff.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:55

      That stuff so- it was a fabric dye, right?

   5. CHChase Hughes1:57

      Yeah, in 1890.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:59

      How weird.

   7. CHChase Hughes2:00

      And it-

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:01

      Who the fuck drank it first? (laughs)

   9. CHChase Hughes2:04

      (laughs) Who's that guy?

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:05

       So, going, "Oh, they make blue jeans out of that?" Huh.

   11. CHChase Hughes2:08

       Yeah, let me-

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:08

       What would it taste like?

   13. CHChase Hughes2:09

       Yeah. Let me taste some of that.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:10

       Why would I drink it every day if- if it affects my health?

   15. CHChase Hughes2:13

       It, it tastes like chewing an aspirin.

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:15

       I, I'd take it.

   17. CHChase Hughes2:15

       Okay.

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:16

       Yeah.

   19. CHChase Hughes2:16

       I take it every day as well. And, uh-

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:18

       Yeah, RFK Jr. told me about it.

   21. CHChase Hughes2:20

       Yeah, man, it's fantastic. And so, this guy's injecting, in 1890, injects these rats with it and then does an autopsy on these things. And their brain, the brain stem, every single nerve is blue. So, he discovered this methylene blue has an affinity for neuronal tissue. So, he says, "Well, it's sucking into neurons, what's it doing?" So, we could talk about it if you want to, but-

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:42

       Sure.

   23. CHChase Hughes2:43

       ... uh, how it's working and, and working in the body. So, he started putting it in humans. And we found out it's an MAOI, which is just-

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:52

       Monoamine oxide inhibitor.

   25. CHChase Hughes2:54

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:54

       Yeah.

   27. CHChase Hughes2:55

       Uh, which helps with depression and anxiety and all kinds of life stress and stuff.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       Does it, um, cause side effects if you're taking any drug that you shouldn't take with an MAOI?

   29. CHChase Hughes3:06

       There are some studies that have been recalled, uh, that said you can't take it with SSRIs 'cause you could develop serotonin syndrome.

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:14

       Right.
3. 7:36 – 9:52

   Root causes: APOE4 risk, military blast exposure, and TBI comparisons

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:36

      What's the root cause of this disease? Do they know? They know what's going on?

   2. CHChase Hughes7:40

      So there's one, there's two factors. You have a genetic predisposition, so you have this thing in your genes called the APOE4 allele.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:49

      Okay. That's the same thing that causes you to get CTE.

   4. CHChase Hughes7:51

      And, yeah, or Alzheimer's.

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:53

      Yeah.

   6. CHChase Hughes7:54

      And if you have that, plus-

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:56

      I shouldn't say causes you, but-

   8. CHChase Hughes7:57

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:58

      ... you know, it's one of those-

   10. CHChase Hughes7:58

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:59

       ... ones where if you get hit in the head a lot, it's not a good thing to have.

   12. CHChase Hughes8:01

       Right. And then I did 20 years in the military, so being around explosions and all kinds of gunfire and all that kind of stuff, they said that it's probably caused some kind of concussive syndrome.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:12

       Mm. Yeah, that's a real issue, right? Expo- 'cause people think of concussions only as, like, you getting hit, but it's not. It's the, it's any kind of jolting to your body.

   14. CHChase Hughes8:24

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:24

       My friend Mark Gordon works with a, uh, a lot of soldiers and people with traumatic brain injuries, and he says you can get it from jet skiing, which is really crazy.

   16. CHChase Hughes8:33

       Wow, just the bounce?

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:34

       Mm-hmm.

   18. CHChase Hughes8:35

       I had no idea.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:36

       Part bouncing, the jostling. If you, like, people who really love jet skiing and do it all the time-

   20. CHChase Hughes8:41

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:41

       ... they start getting a little bit of CTE.

   22. CHChase Hughes8:42

       That makes sense. Our, our, our brain is floating.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:45

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CHChase Hughes8:45

       It's neutrally buoyant inside of liquid, so-

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:47

       Yeah.

   26. CHChase Hughes8:48

       ... that makes sense.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:49

       Yeah.

   28. CHChase Hughes8:49

       It's not smashing around inside your skull.

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:51

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4. 9:52 – 12:01

   From dating rejection to behavioral science: Hughes’ origin story

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:52

      value gift for free when you go to DrinkAG1.com/JoeRogan. Check it out. So how did you get involved in ... I mean, your, your space is like, you wrote this book, Behavior Ops Manual, and you're, you've got a lot of stuff online, like how to motivate yourself and discipline yourself, and that's g- how I, uh, found out about you. Some of the different videos that I thought were really insightful about, uh, how to sort of schedule progress in whatever you're trying to accomplish in your life, how to set things up. How'd you get involved in all this kind of stuff?

   2. CHChase Hughes10:28

      It's a story. I mean, I mean, I was n- 19 years old, stationed in Pearl Harbor. I got turned down by a girl one night, and I went home and I typed in, "How to tell when girls like you-"

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:38

      (laughs)

   4. CHChase Hughes10:38

      ... on the, on the internet. (laughs) I printed out, like, a two-foot stack of, of shit just to s- just to read through, 'cause I didn't want to be rejected again. So-

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:49

      That's hilarious.

   6. CHChase Hughes10:50

      ... I got into this body language stuff, and then it was just behavior. And the more I could kind of see somebody's insecurities and when somebody was stressed and the little fears that are hiding behind behaviors, like, it made them human to me. So I think I had some social anxiety, and me being able to kind of see behind that mask, I wasn't judging anybody, but it was just like, "Wow, they're, they're messed up too." So I kind of got addicted to that, and I just rode this line down this behavior path. And I got obsessed with studying all this behavior. And a friend of mine was killed on USS Cole during the, the terrorist attack in, in 2001. September 11th, the, the Cole got attacked in the Gulf of Yemen. And, uh, I was, like, reading these intelligence reports afterward that said there's failures on the ground. We didn't develop assets in the country, we didn't, you know, take the actions that we needed to take to, to get this intelligence. And I was like, "Man, they need this behavior stuff." So I got more and more obsessed with it, and I started training people in the government, uh, probably around the age of 30 or so. And that was, like, just a few years before I retired at 38. And I, I've, the novelty still hasn't worn off for me. I'm still obsessed with that, that field of study.

5. 12:01 – 15:17

   Studying coercion: cult recruiters, interrogation, and persuasion ecosystems

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:01

      So were you trained to train people? Like, how did you go about starting to train people? What was it based on?

   2. CHChase Hughes12:07

      ... it was me. (laughs) I, the first group of people I trained was a car dealership, just to see if I could do it. I said, "I, I'm gonna go in there and, and do it for free." And then I started training people in the military, and these are US Navy and other, other branches. And I'm training them in, like, these, and I got obsessed with this interrogation stuff and how the brain works. And, and I got, mostly got obsessed with, if I'm an intelligence officer, uh, my job is to convince somebody to do something that's not in their best interest. Like, I, I need to convince you to spy for your own country and give us intelligence, or if I'm an interrogator, I need to convince you to confess to a crime. So, I spent time hanging out with, uh, people that do cult recruiting out in California. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:53

      (laughs) There's like official people?

   4. CHChase Hughes12:55

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:55

      Like human resources for cult recruiting? (laughs)

   6. CHChase Hughes12:58

      Yeah. Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:59

      What do you mean? Like, how do ... Do cults hire them?

   8. CHChase Hughes13:02

      No, I think they join the cult and the cult says, "Oh, this guy's really charismatic." Or he was a ... I think half of these dudes were, like, ex-club promoters.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:11

      (laughs) That makes sense.

   10. CHChase Hughes13:12

       Like, you know, they got that vibe.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:13

       Right.

   12. CHChase Hughes13:13

       You know, like, "Which come by tonight."

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:15

       Right.

   14. CHChase Hughes13:16

       And I spent time in San Bernardino with a couple of people, three or four people, three people, that talked people, women, into doing adult films, like young girls that were 19, 20 years old and just starting college. And I talked ... And I asked them, "What are the methods that you use? What are the steps that you follow?" And I watched s- several of these interactions and then spent time with interrogators and people who do, like, timeshare sales and stuff like that, which I don't know if you've ever been at a timeshare sales pitch.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:46

       No, I have not.

   16. CHChase Hughes13:47

       They're hardcore. (laughs) And so, I spent time with all these people, and I, I wanted to figure out what are the elements that make somebody willing to do something that is maybe not in their best interest. And that transformed everything for me, and then I said, "We could use all of this stuff from M- Manchurian Candidates," which we can get into if you want to-

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:08

       Sure.

   18. CHChase Hughes14:09

       ... to, uh, whatever, to help people instead of to do the opposite. So, I could use the same technique to help a person instead of get them to confess to a crime. 'Cause it's just a brain. I'm not learning about interrogation or cult recruiting or anything. I'm just learning, where are these little loopholes in the brain? Does that make sense?

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:28

       Yeah. So what cults were these people recruiting people for?

   20. CHChase Hughes14:33

       I can't talk about it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:34

       You can't say the name of the cults?

   22. CHChase Hughes14:35

       I can't say the name.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:36

       How many different people did you talk to that were cult recruiters?

   24. CHChase Hughes14:38

       Six.

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:39

       Six? So there's more than six.

   26. CHChase Hughes14:41

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:41

       How many cults are there active right now?

   28. CHChase Hughes14:42

       It was two. There were two cults.

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:44

       Two cults, six recruiters.

   30. CHChase Hughes14:45

       Yeah. I call them ... I would call them cults, but, um-
6. 15:17 – 18:56

   Elicitation and identity traps: how recruiters get quick compliance

   1. CHChase Hughes15:17

      "Tell me about your mom." And you get that ... They all had that quality to them, but one of the things that all of them had, the one trait that I think all of those guys had, was they could get you to deviate off of your baseline really quick. And so, if you're ... If they can get you to curse, that's step one. They get you to say something that's a little bit out of, outside of a social norm, they would all do that as step one.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:43

      Hm.

   3. CHChase Hughes15:45

      Every single time.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:46

      Huh. So, what, what ... Like, in the cults, how would they do that? What would they try to get you to deviate from? What would they try to get you to do?

   5. CHChase Hughes15:55

      So, in the ... Their goal was to get you to agree to join the cult. So, if I can get you to do something that's outside of your norm, so I use something called elicitation. So, instead of me asking questions ... Let's say we get into the back of an Uber and I wanna ask the Uber driver to complain about his job.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:12

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CHChase Hughes16:13

      Instead of using questions, which are weird, right? So, like, I'm like, "Hey, do you like your job?"

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:17

      Right. That's weird.

   9. CHChase Hughes16:18

      It's, yeah, weird. It's like saying, "Hey, how much do you guys make?" Um, you say, "Hey, I just read this article the other day that said Uber drivers are the, are the most highest respected people out there and they love their job. They have the highest job satisfaction rating. That's incredible." And they turn ... The guy turns around, they're like, "What?"

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       Uh, so you bullshitted them. (laughs)

   11. CHChase Hughes16:37

       Right. So just ... That's called, uh, triggering a need to correct the record. It's one of the methods.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       Oh.

   13. CHChase Hughes16:44

       But I very quickly get your brain to associate a mental script of friend mode, 'cause he doesn't talk about that with other riders. He, he bitches about his job to his, his friends.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       Right.

   15. CHChase Hughes16:56

       So, I'm getting your brain to start shifting into this ... I'm behaving as if I'm with a friend.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       Right.

   17. CHChase Hughes17:02

       So, I start getting that behavior out of a person very quickly. So, we're just activating a script in that person's mind that goes from, "I'm with a client," to, "I'm with a friend."

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:11

       Hm.

   19. CHChase Hughes17:11

       And that's to get that first level of deviation of behavior right there.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       Okay.

   21. CHChase Hughes17:16

       And you're ... Uh, once you get the script activated, you can start leading them in other directions. So, the second step usually, and this goes into Manchurian Candidate stuff, and if you wanna talk about Sirhan & Sirhan and all that kind of stuff, we can.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       Sure.

   23. CHChase Hughes17:29

       Um, but to get them to start making a little bit of an identity agreement. Are you this type of person? So, in reality, if I wanted you to, uh, let's say join a cult, like, are you the type of person ... And I'll just have an A, B question.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:45

       Okay.

   25. CHChase Hughes17:46

       So, you know, in my life, I've discovered there's two types of people. There's people that take action when they know something is right, and there's people that wait and wait and wait. And I'm sure you know people that wait and wait and wait. But I've got you to agree that you're type one.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:57

       Okay.

   27. CHChase Hughes17:58

       Because I said, "I'm sure you know people." And your, even your head nodded.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:01

       Right.

   29. CHChase Hughes18:01

       Right?

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:02

       Right.
7. 18:56 – 33:23

   Conformity mechanics: Asch lines experiment, bots, echo chambers, and ‘tyranny of the fringe’

   1. CHChase Hughes18:56

      At the very beginning, yes. But the moment your identity's involved, they can lead it further and further and further. And then, uh, so one of the third steps, there's a million, but if, there's a experiment, if Jamie could pull it up, uh, called the, the Lines Experiment with Dr. Solomon Asch.

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:14

      Lion, like the animal, or L-I-N-E?

   3. CHChase Hughes19:16

      Line.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:17

      Lines?

   5. CHChase Hughes19:17

      Yeah. Line. L-I-N-E. So where this guy, uh, was at a table kind of like this, but there's, you're a volunteer at experiment, there's like 15 people in the room. Everybody else but you is a per- is a, uh, is in on the experiment. You're the only volunteer in the group.

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:33

      Okay.

   7. CHChase Hughes19:34

      So they show you these lines that, um, are three lines on one page and then they show one page that has one line on it. So which line on this page is equal to this line over here?

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:44

      Okay.

   9. CHChase Hughes19:45

      So obviously, you're, over here on the target line, you're gonna pick C.

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:49

       Right.

   11. CHChase Hughes19:49

       Right? I mean, that's glaringly obvious.

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:53

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CHChase Hughes19:54

       So in this experiment, Dr. Asch is, is doing this conformity experiment. So these other people in the room all go before you and everybody in the room one at a time says, "A, A, A, A, A, A." And it gets around to the person, and this was almost 100%, 100% of people in the experiment would say A. And it's right in front of their face.

   14. JRJoe Rogan20:19

       Hmm.

   15. CHChase Hughes20:20

       The truth is right in front of their face, and they would, they would go with the group because the group did it. The group is telling them what to choose.

   16. JRJoe Rogan20:29

       But it's not even slight. Like the difference is so glaringly obvious. It's kind of amazing.

   17. CHChase Hughes20:35

       Unbelievable.

   18. JRJoe Rogan20:35

       How did they, uh, pre-pick the people that were going to be the test subjects? Like did they have any specific things that they were looking for? Because I think there's a lot of people that even if you got 13 people to say A, they would go, "What are you guys talking about? It's C." Like was there anything about them that they picked? Like did, were these people pre-selected for being-

   19. CHChase Hughes20:58

       No.

   20. JRJoe Rogan20:59

       No?

   21. CHChase Hughes20:59

       No. Uh, and they ran the experiment-

   22. JRJoe Rogan21:00

       Do you ever think about yourself in that room? What would you do?

   23. CHChase Hughes21:03

       Yeah, and I worry. W-

   24. JRJoe Rogan21:04

       (laughs) Do you?

   25. CHChase Hughes21:06

       No, I think in, in reality, we, everybody that's listening right now would say, "Not me." 100% of people would say, "I wouldn't do that."

   26. JRJoe Rogan21:15

       Well, uh, I keep thinking it kind of depends on your station in life.

   27. CHChase Hughes21:18

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan21:18

       You know, where you're at. Uh, when I was young, I might have just said A 'cause everybody was saying A.

   29. CHChase Hughes21:24

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan21:24

       You know? 'Cause I didn't want to be an idiot.
8. 33:23 – 47:43

   Novelty + authority: why Milgram ‘works’ and why scripts don’t

   1. JRJoe Rogan33:23

      Novelty and authority. Like, give me some examples of that.

   2. CHChase Hughes33:26

      So let's say, uh, you and I are living 10,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago. The average tribe of people was like 150, 120. And let's say your job and my job was to go and collect fish in a bag, and fish, and then kind of bring it back to the tribe at the end of the day. And every day we went to the same spot, and it's a great spot. We walked by this bush, this big ass bush, and one day we're going back and talking about the fish we got, and you hear a stick snap behind that bush that we haven't heard before. So it's an, it's an unexpected deviation from your mental script of what's gonna happen. Does this make sense so far?

   3. JRJoe Rogan34:03

      Okay.

   4. CHChase Hughes34:05

      So we're walking by the bush, the stick snaps. Now, what's generated in that moment is a tremendous amount of focus. Like there could be a threat, it could be a rabbit that we can eat, right? So a threat or a value is what our, how our brain responds to something new and something unexpected. Is it a threat? Is it valuable, socially or otherwise valuable? So the stick breaks. We're not thinking about our kids. We're not thinking about how many fish are in the bag. We're only thinking about this novel new thing that interrupted my brain's script of what I thought was gonna happen.

   5. JRJoe Rogan34:36

      Okay.

   6. CHChase Hughes34:37

      You with me so far?

   7. JRJoe Rogan34:37

      Yeah.

   8. CHChase Hughes34:38

      So in our life, when we see something that's unexpected, something that we... I guess we're, we're not expecting. So we're driving a car, blue lights in your rear view mirror is tremendous amount of novelty, threat, value, right? So our brain says, "This is how I tie my shoes. This is how I go to work. This is how I run the cash register at Starbucks," whatever it is. We develop these apps in our head. And when something interrupts one of those programs, our brain automatically says, "This is different. This is not expected. I need all of my focus down on this one thing."

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:14

      Okay.

   10. CHChase Hughes35:15

       And that's how novelty starts to trigger our brain. Make sense so far?

   11. JRJoe Rogan35:18

       Yes.

   12. CHChase Hughes35:19

       And authority is the second piece.

   13. JRJoe Rogan35:21

       So what, what would be an example that someone would use as like novelty to get, like novelty and authority, if you wanna get someone to follow you, like what would be novelty that we would apply?

   14. CHChase Hughes35:31

       Give me any, any scenario and I'll, I'll tell you.

   15. JRJoe Rogan35:34

       Okay. You're trying to get someone to join a cult.

   16. CHChase Hughes35:36

       Yeah. So the novelty right away is, "I'm gonna approach you and say something or ask you a question that you've never been asked before, and that there's no possible way that your brain could have gotten ready for that scenario." And it could be something ridiculously stupid. It'd be like, "Hey, did you see these guys fighting outside like, here last week?" Or you're walking up and you say, "Hey, I'm gonna ask you three questions, but you only have 12 seconds to answer." No one's ever said something like that.

   17. JRJoe Rogan35:59

       Okay. So you're just getting them out of their comfort zone, getting them into like, "Whoa, what's going on?"

   18. CHChase Hughes36:03

       Yeah. We're breaking a pattern.

   19. JRJoe Rogan36:04

       Okay.

   20. CHChase Hughes36:05

       So we're, we're, we're all running on patterns all the time. The moment a pattern is broken, we have tremendous focus. So focus is the first step to hacking the mammalian brain. Authority is next.... and authority is, like if you look at the Milgram experiment. Have you heard of this?

   21. JRJoe Rogan36:21

       Mm-hmm.

   22. CHChase Hughes36:21

       Oh my God. Have you, are you, have you gone deep on it?

   23. JRJoe Rogan36:25

       Not really. I mean, but explain it to people so they know-

   24. CHChase Hughes36:27

       Okay.

   25. JRJoe Rogan36:27

       ... what you're talking about.

   26. CHChase Hughes36:28

       Jamie, can we bring up a picture of the box? The shocking, uh, box from this experiment is just-

   27. JRJoe Rogan36:33

       Essentially they told people that they had to keep shocking people even if, and then they did it to the point where they thought the other person on the other side was actually dead and they kept shocking them.

   28. CHChase Hughes36:42

       Yeah. Yeah. And so there-

   29. JRJoe Rogan36:43

       What year was this?

   30. CHChase Hughes36:44

       Uh, '62. 1962 at Yale University. Um, this is a variation of the experiment, but just go to the one, the third one right there. So that's, uh, Stanley Milgram standing over that machine right there. So you'll notice on the bottom right it says, "Danger: Severe Shock," right there.
9. 47:43 – 1:05:07

   MKUltra and Manchurian-candidate claims: Sirhan Sirhan, Jolly West, and research destruction

   1. CHChase Hughes47:43

      Will you accept a suggestion and act on it? And we've got guys like Sirhan Sirhan, uh, who killed RFK, uh, in San Francisco. This is '60s.

   2. JRJoe Rogan47:55

      I think it's Los Angeles.

   3. CHChase Hughes47:57

      I think it was San Francisco.

   4. JRJoe Rogan47:58

      I think it's Los Angeles, because I was at the actual, uh, hotel where they did it.

   5. CHChase Hughes48:02

      Where they... Okay.

   6. JRJoe Rogan48:02

      They actually filmed Fear Factor there.

   7. CHChase Hughes48:04

      Okay.

   8. JRJoe Rogan48:04

      See, that's true.

   9. CHChase Hughes48:06

      I don't doubt you at all. But-

   10. JRJoe Rogan48:07

       I'm pretty sure. Pretty sure it was Los Angeles. And there's also some debate as to whether or not he did it.

   11. CHChase Hughes48:11

       Oh, I did a whole video on this on my channel.

   12. JRJoe Rogan48:14

       Yeah?

   13. CHChase Hughes48:15

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan48:15

       But what did... I don't know enough about it.

   15. CHChase Hughes48:17

       Oh.

   16. JRJoe Rogan48:17

       But I know that there's some people that, you know... Obviously, there's some people that think that, like, JFK's driver shot him. There's some, like, kooky, kooky s- conspiracies. Yeah, Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, shortly after-

   17. CHChase Hughes48:28

       Okay.

   18. JRJoe Rogan48:29

       ... Kennedy had finished. Yeah. So, that hotel, we filmed Fear Factor there once, that's the only reason why I know.And we were in the kitchen, where, like, Sirhan Sirhan-

   19. CHChase Hughes48:36

       Oh, that, it happened in the kitchen.

   20. JRJoe Rogan48:37

       Yeah. We were in the spot.

   21. CHChase Hughes48:39

       Oh, man.

   22. JRJoe Rogan48:39

       I'm like, "This is crazy that we're filming this stupid fucking show in a place where a presidential candidate got murdered."

   23. CHChase Hughes48:45

       Yeah. Was, was that the reason they filmed there? Was-

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:47

       Um ... I think a lot of stuff filmed in that hotel. I think the hotel had been defunct, and a lot of, um, the, there's like abandoned buildings and things in Los Angeles that they use for filming stuff.

   25. CHChase Hughes49:01

       Okay.

   26. JRJoe Rogan49:02

       You know, 'cause it's a big filming industry, like they'll film films and TV shows and stuff there if they ... It's like a cool environment. And it was like spooky, rundown, old hotel. I don't even remember the show, the episode.

   27. CHChase Hughes49:13

       Well.

   28. JRJoe Rogan49:13

       But I just remember us being in that-

   29. CHChase Hughes49:15

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan49:15

       ... that room, going, "Eurgh."
10. 1:05:07 – 1:20:33

    Hypnosis, suggestibility, and engineered ‘alters’—from CIA tests to sports performance

    1. CHChase Hughes1:05:07

       So like you're a very social guy.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:09

       Okay.

    3. CHChase Hughes1:05:10

       And you've got lines in your forehead here from raising your eyebrows a lot. There's people that are your age that are not very socially connected to people that have the smooth foreheads.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:05:19

       Oh, interesting.

    5. CHChase Hughes1:05:20

       So if you're smiling a lot your whole life, you're gonna develop these little crow's feet, and you'll do it by the age of 19. If you're a social, happy person, you'll see the crow's feet. If you're angry all the time, you're gonna see this little muscle right here, the glabella-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:05:31

       Oh, I got that thing.

    7. CHChase Hughes1:05:32

       ... start to... Yeah, but yours, yeah, yours is not that pronounced. But whatever emotion we experience on a very, very regular basis etches itself onto the face, as a rule of thumb. Not saying that this is science, it's, it's not. This is my observation. There's no study that I can-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:49

       Got it.

    9. CHChase Hughes1:05:49

       ... send you. But we can see that. I mean, you can see somebody who's lived a super happy life. You know, they're, they have these little smile lines around their eyes.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:05:57

        Mm-hmm.

    11. CHChase Hughes1:05:57

        Somebody who's raising their eyebrows a lot. This is our social, our forehead is a social billboard.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:06:01

        Right.

    13. CHChase Hughes1:06:02

        So you're gonna see those lines start coming on the face. But what if I told you to make a skeptical facial expression?

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:06:09

        Hmm. Well, I would do-

    15. CHChase Hughes1:06:10

        What would you do?

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:06:11

        If you asked me to be skeptical?

    17. CHChase Hughes1:06:12

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:06:13

        This is my skeptic face.

    19. CHChase Hughes1:06:15

        Okay. So like somebody's trying to feed you something. Most people will kind of, these lower eyelids are gonna tighten up. They do that the first time you do that.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:06:22

        I might do that too.

    21. CHChase Hughes1:06:22

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:06:22

        I might do that.

    23. CHChase Hughes1:06:23

        So you're like, "Uh."

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:06:24

        Most of the time though, I'm like, "What?"

    25. CHChase Hughes1:06:26

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:26

        It's my what bitch face. What bitch?

    27. CHChase Hughes1:06:28

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:29

        What? (laughs)

    29. CHChase Hughes1:06:32

        (laughs) If I have somebody who's been, who is not skeptical ever in their life, they have the smoothest lower eyelids in the world.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:06:41

        Huh.

Episode duration: 2:54:21