Joe Rogan Experience #2280 - Peter Berg

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. (drumming music)

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)

Joe Rogan 0:13 Are those black coffee for coffees? Are we up?

Narrator 0:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:16 All right, we're rolling. Those, those are a lot.

Peter Berg 0:18 Is this too much?

Joe Rogan 0:19 They're delicious.

Peter Berg 0:19 Am I making a- am I making a rookie mistake?

Joe Rogan 0:21 No, I love them. They're too good, though. They're- they're- there's a lot of sugar in them. They're trying to make one with no sugar. They're pretty close. But right now, that- that's got a ton of sugar in it. But damn, it's good.

Peter Berg 0:31 Yeah, they taste good.

Joe Rogan 0:33 We did the full thing today, dude.

Peter Berg 0:35 Thanks for the workout.

Joe Rogan 0:36 My pleasure, it was fun.

Peter Berg 0:36 Thanks for the work- you're a- you're a beast. For anyone that doesn't know, you are a fucking beast. And I suspected you would be, you know. That's why I wanted to work out. Um, and I was smart enough, and I told you right away, I'm not gonna keep up with you. Um, but man, you go hard for anyone-

Joe Rogan 0:53 You did a lot of the things, though. You did all the stuff, you know? Like, and stuff that you'd never done before, like windmills and-

Peter Berg 0:59 Yeah, those windmills were like, you could really get in trouble with the windmill.

Joe Rogan 1:03 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:04 For people that don't know what that is.

Joe Rogan 1:05 You certainly can with heavy weight, yeah. It's something. But it- all those things, like the push-ups and body weight squats, it's all just a- you have to build to it. You know?

Peter Berg 1:13 I love the way you warm up, you know, 'cause I- I'm the same way. Um, I do a long warmup every day.

Joe Rogan 1:19 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 1:19 Uh, and my buddy Ari got me into it, and- and just try and stretch absolutely everything. And I was telling you, I got thrown off a horse in Africa a month ago, and when I was in the process of getting thrown off and I was, like, in the middle of the air, and I'm about to come down and I'm like, "Oh, shit. This is gonna be a problem." And I thought about those warmups, and I landed and rolled and didn't hurt myself. So, I think those are really smart.

Joe Rogan 1:45 Yeah, if we could just appreciate when your body works well without having to be injured, it would be so nice.

Peter Berg 1:51 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:51 'Cause you really only think about your- oh, God, I hope my body heals, when you get injured. If you get fucked up, then you think, "God, I can't wait to get healthy again." But if you just appreciate- and the best way to appreciate your body working well is to keep it working well.

Peter Berg 2:06 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 2:06 Is to work on it. Like, stretch out, work out, li- lift weights, get some cardio in. Do the stuff that's uncomfortable, like stretching. I- I like that you started off your workout with a nice long stretch.

Peter Berg 2:18 We had a good stretch.

Joe Rogan 2:19 Yeah.

Peter Berg 2:19 And a good ice bath, man.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Yeah, we did.

Peter Berg 2:21 Yours was colder than mine.

Joe Rogan 2:22 (laughs) That bl- blue cube is brutal, because it's always running.

Peter Berg 2:25 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:26 It's like a flowing river.

Peter Berg 2:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:28 That's hard.

Peter Berg 2:29 Great- it was a great way to start. Appreciate it.

Joe Rogan 2:31 Yeah, it gets you fired up, man. And also, like we were saying, your workout's done. You're- you're a day can- you're- you're free. You don't have to think about doing it. Just get it out of the way early, you're good.

Peter Berg 2:41 Well, and the- and the sauna and the way you approach the- I- the way I think you appro- approach all of it is kind of a meditation.

Joe Rogan 2:48 Yeah.

Peter Berg 2:48 You know, and I- I know that that's probably really an important part of your creative process. It is of mine when I'm writing or directing, to be able to have that time alone, uh, to- and it's a moving meditation, and I think one of the secrets to your success, in my opinion, is that you know how to take that time for yourself, lock in, focus, get mentally and physically ready, 'cause it's not easy to do what you do every day, to be this- this present. So, I respect it so much.

Joe Rogan 3:18 Well, thank you very much. Well, I'm-

Peter Berg 3:20 You're good.

Joe Rogan 3:20 ... obviously I'm a huge fan of what you do, and fucking American Primeval is so good, dude.

Peter Berg 3:25 Thank you, man.

Joe Rogan 3:26 I feel like you made it just for me. (laughs)

Peter Berg 3:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:28 I've been waiting for a- a realistic Wild West series like that forever. And that is, I'll just say it right now, that's the best one that's ever been made.

Peter Berg 3:38 All right, thank you.

Joe Rogan 3:38 It's the best representation of the Wild West that's ever been made. It's so good, dude. It's so brutal. My wife checked out after episode one.

Peter Berg 3:47 Did she? Yeah, 'cause I'm-

Joe Rogan 3:48 She's like, "I can't."

Peter Berg 3:49 ... I wonder.

Joe Rogan 3:49 'Cause we watch- we watch shows before we go to bed, and we were in the middle of Severance, which is excellent.

Peter Berg 3:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:55 Really good show. And Severance is, you know, I mean, there's some brutal moments, but it's- it's just really complicated and it's really engaging and thrilling.

Peter Berg 4:03 You've got to pay very close attention.

Joe Rogan 4:04 Yeah, yeah. Really good show.

Peter Berg 4:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:05 And then I said, "Hey, baby, we've got to watch, uh, American Primeval." I go, "Peter's coming on. Please sit and watch with me." This was a couple weeks ago. (laughs)

Peter Berg 4:12 (laughs) Do I have to-

Joe Rogan 4:15 That first episode, she's like, "Jesus Christ, what the fuck are you doing to me? It's like 10 o'clock at night, I got to go to bed."

Peter Berg 4:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:20 "I can't, like- people are getting tomahawked in the fucking head and I got to go to sleep."

Peter Berg 4:25 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, if I have to call her or send her flowers or anything, I will.

Joe Rogan 4:29 (laughs)

Peter Berg 4:30 I've had to send a few people flowers and give them, like, uh, massages and stuff, like therapy, uh, treatments, because it's traumatizing.

Joe Rogan 4:38 Because you did it right, that's why.

Peter Berg 4:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:40 'Cause you did it right. You- you did it like it really was. It was a fucking barbaric time in a barbaric place. And it's never really been- other than 1883, Taylor Sheridan's series, which is also excellent.

Peter Berg 4:55 Excellent.

Joe Rogan 4:56 Excellent. He- he did a fantastic job. And, uh, how crazy is it that, like, Faith Hill and, um, what's the other guy's name? The-

Peter Berg 5:05 Tim.

Joe Rogan 5:05 Tim McGraw?

Peter Berg 5:05 Tim McGraw.

Joe Rogan 5:06 They're fucking great actors.

Peter Berg 5:08 Sure.

Joe Rogan 5:08 Like-

Peter Berg 5:08 Tim was in Friday Night Lights. Do you remember him? In the movie, he played, uh, the father, like the mean, alcoholic father-

Joe Rogan 5:15 Oh.

Peter Berg 5:15 ... who used to beat up his kid.

Joe Rogan 5:17 Wow.

Peter Berg 5:17 And Tim- Tim was great in Friday Night Lights. Tim's a very good actor.

Joe Rogan 5:21 Isn't that crazy?

Peter Berg 5:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:22 That someone who's a great singer can all just slide into this other thing and be amazing at it?

Peter Berg 5:26 Yeah, he- he's an artist. I mean, he's a really deep thinking, deep feeling artist.

Joe Rogan 5:31 Yeah, clearly.

Peter Berg 5:32 And- and Taylor- Taylor- Taylor Sheridan has a knack for getting great performances out of people like McGraw, or did you see Jerry Jones, his cameo in Land Man, which I think is the best cameo ever? Have you seen that yet?

Joe Rogan 5:45 What episode is it on?

Peter Berg 5:46 I- I'm not sure, 'cause I don't know each episode, but he's got, uh, uh, Sheridan has a sequence where Jerry Jones basically playing himself just tells the story of how he got into...... business, and how he started up, and it's just beautifully done. And, and Sh- Sheridan's very good at, at getting people to, to, to do cameos and, and pulling it out of them.

Joe Rogan 6:08 I think that that show was... Like, Billy Bob Thornton was built for that show.

Peter Berg 6:12 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 6:12 It's like he was born for it.

Peter Berg 6:14 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:14 That, he's, that's his perfect role. He's so goddamn good in that show.

Peter Berg 6:18 In Land Man.

Joe Rogan 6:19 Yeah, in Land Man. He's so god... I mean, he's been good in a million things, but in Land Man, it's like you just believe he's that guy.

Peter Berg 6:26 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 6:27 You just believe. But American Primeval, back to that. What, what, uh, inspired you to do such a realistic interpretation of that time period?

Peter Berg 6:38 So, do you remember a movie called Jeremiah Johnson?

Joe Rogan 6:41 Yes.

Peter Berg 6:41 Did you ever see that with Robert Redford and-

Joe Rogan 6:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peter Berg 6:44 ... you know, he-

Joe Rogan 6:44 A long time ago.

Peter Berg 6:44 He, so Redford plays this city man who goes out west looking for gold and ends up sort of stuck somewhere around Montana and, and is trying to survive out there, and when the Indians first find him, he's so inept. He's trying to catch a fish in a frozen river with his hands. I mean, it's just, he's completely inept, that they don't even waste an arrow on him. They don't kill him. And by the end of the film, he's a warrior, and he's learned how to survive, and he marries a, a Native American woman, and his wife gets killed, and he goes on a, a vengeance spree and kills a whole bunch of people, and ends up getting this incredible respect, um, from the Native Americans. And my dad took me to see Jeremiah Johnson, and that movie always stuck with me. Um, and I'm good friends with Taylor Sheridan, and we work together a lot, and I obviously know everything he's doing, and I kinda wanted to see if I could play in that space. But, you know, he's doing it so well and so specifically, I kinda thought, "Well, what if I just did something that was really about the survival?" And I like to call it inch-by-inch filmmaking, where you think about how hard it would've been just to go 50 feet and take a piss, and how there might've been 15 different things that could've killed you on the way to taking that piss. Instead of just jumping through those 50 things, let's, let's really try and stretch it out, and try and show people and capture the brutality of moment-to-moment living back in, you know, that part of America in 1850s. Um, and-

Joe Rogan 8:22 And you're used to doing films, so is, what is the process like transitioning from something that's two or three hours to something that's long form?

Peter Berg 8:33 Yeah, man.

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Peter Berg 9:47 Yeah, it was, it was a massive, uh, job. You know, a mo- a movie, a big movie is generally, like, 85-day shoot. Um, American Primeval was 145-day shoot. And I had, um, one of my, my th- my ideas, and with Mark L. Smith, who, who wrote the episodes and is very talented, was let's not shoot in sound stages. Let's not, you know, make parking lots look like forests, and, but let's go up into the mountains. And in this case, we went up, uh, onto some different Indian reservations in New Mexico, and we're like, "Let's really go out there for 145 days. Let's do it." You know, we were talk... This was all prior to us going out and actually doing it. And it's kinda like be careful what you ask for.

Joe Rogan 10:33 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 10:33 It's like, we are... You're actually really fucking on the mountain for 145 days, and there's lightning storms and snowstorms and wind storms, and we had rattlesnakes everywhere, and we had to have all these dudes going around pulling the snakes out of the, um, out of the, uh, the rocks, and stuntmen breaking ribs. Joe Schilling was with us every day. I think we killed Joe five times.

Joe Rogan 10:57 (laughs)

Peter Berg 10:57 Uh, thanks, Joe. Uh, and-

Joe Rogan 10:59 I saw Tait Fletcher. I was telling you too.

Peter Berg 11:01 Yeah, Tait-

Joe Rogan 11:01 Since episode two.

Peter Berg 11:02 We only killed Tait once, but thanks, Tait, for that.

Joe Rogan 11:05 I love that dude.

Peter Berg 11:06 But these stuntmen were so tough, and, you know, breaking bones, and all kinds of horrible things. But the creative, uh, experience of getting to do basically six movies at once, you know, 'cause I directed all of them, um, and being able to go that deep in characters, and to be able to bring in elements like Brigham Young and the Mormon religion, and have big themes circling around just very visceral, violent moments, um, as a filmmaker, is fucking awesome. And it's, it's a, it's different, you know, because it's not... Directing an episode of a television show is its own experience, but that's very quick. Directing a movie is really, really wonderful, and very, obviously, creatively demanding. But that's... This is six movies all at once.

Joe Rogan 11:55 Yeah.

Peter Berg 11:55 And having to keep that in my head, um, and kind of figure out how to keep myself...... functioning and not wasting energy, and, you know, I built a gym in my house in New Mexico with an ice bath and a sauna. And I'd get up at 4:00 every morning and just have that time for myself to keep myself fit and, you know, mentally and physically ready to, to, to go at it, because-

Joe Rogan 12:19 When you're on, when you're... I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Peter Berg 12:21 No.

Joe Rogan 12:21 But when you're in the middle of a project, and you're doing your workouts and so on, are you just, like, constantly going over the show in your head?

Peter Berg 12:28 Uh, yeah, ki- I mean, I, I try to... I, I do go over it, but in more of an abstract way. I, I'm a, a bit of an improvisational filmmaker, meaning I don't like to have everything super planned out. I, I think kind of the way you conduct your podcast. You, you have some ideas, and then you just sort of allow whatever happens to happen. And I, I try... I know what I'm gonna do that day. So, you know, particularly with American Primeval, because, you know, we had so many big battles and stunts and, you know, kind of dangerous, complex filmmaking, you, there has to be some plan. But even within that, I try to loosely think about what I want to do, and then get out there, uh, and, and l- and let the actors kind of start doing what they do, and see what kind of creative vibe gets going, and allow the cameramen... You know, I just shoot handheld cameras, so we have a lot of flexibility, uh, with how we can work and capture. And my feeling is, rather than plan it all out, go out there knowing kind of what you want to accomplish, but allow kind of creativity, allow that kind of divine magic to enter the process.

Joe Rogan 13:41 Mm.

Peter Berg 13:42 Which, um, can kind of be freaky for, like, my bosses at Netflix, because they're spending (laughs) a whole lot of money.

Joe Rogan 13:48 (laughs)

Peter Berg 13:48 And they're like, "What are we doing today?" And I'm like, "I don't really know what we're doing today, but we're gonna do something." Um, but I've done it, and-

Joe Rogan 13:55 Well, they're pretty good at staying out of the way, aren't they?

Peter Berg 13:57 They, they actually are, uh, fantastic about it. And, and, you know, I, I have to give, um, you know, my boss, uh, there's a woman named Bela Bajari at Netflix who... And people talk a lot of shit about Netflix. I'm not one of them. I mean, they're giv- giving so many people so much work. And they, you know, once, once you convince them that you have a vision, they let you do it. And-

Joe Rogan 14:22 Yeah.

Peter Berg 14:22 ... um, she was great, and she let me do it. And, um... And it was interesting, because there was a scene in, um, in the second episode of American Primeval where, uh, a Native American cuts the throats of five women, who-

Joe Rogan 14:37 Spoiler alert.

Peter Berg 14:38 Sorry, spoiler alert, I guess, sort of.

Joe Rogan 14:40 (laughs)

Peter Berg 14:41 There, there's a lot other bad things that happen, but there is this scene, right?

Joe Rogan 14:44 Yeah.

Peter Berg 14:45 And, you know, N- Netflix is a very busy company. They're making a lot of stuff. And we were deep in the edit process, and I got a call from Bela, the, the boss, my boss, and she's like, "I want to see this show." And I'm like, "Well, you... It's your show, so please come in." And, you know, it's hard for her to keep track of all these shows and all the scripts, and I was impressed that she even wanted to come in. And so she came in, uh, to the edit room, and she's like, "I'm gonna watch one episode." And it's kind of a big deal. She's, you know, very influential person in, in our world. And so it's me and Hugo, the editor, and Bela comes in, and we sh- we're showing her the first episode, and we're just sitting in this kind of dark screening room, and I have no idea what she's gonna say or do. And it's pretty violent. And it ends, and she goes, "I want to see another one." And I'm like, "O- okay." We started playing the second episode, and we're getting right to the moment where, spoiler alert, these women are about to have their throats cut. And I'm starting to have a-

Joe Rogan 15:44 (laughs)

Peter Berg 15:44 ... a full fucking panic attack-

Joe Rogan 15:46 (laughs)

Peter Berg 15:46 ... because I'm pretty sure that she doesn't know what's coming up, right?

Joe Rogan 15:50 Yeah.

Peter Berg 15:50 And, and Hugo, the editor, is kind of looking at me like, "Should I stop it?" I'm like... And I d- I really didn't know what to do. And we're... And I... We get to the moment where this event happens, and my body heat was, was literally rising. I'm ready for her to, like, fire me and take the show, and I don't... And the scene happens, and the girls get their throats cut, and she says, "Stop." And w- we stop. And she goes, "Peter, I can sense you're concerned about my reaction. Let me tell you something. I'm here for this violence. I'm not afraid of this violence. As long as you make it emotional and connect me to the emotion, do it."

Joe Rogan 16:28 Wow.

Peter Berg 16:28 And I'm like, "Thank you, Bela." And she left, and she allowed us to explore the kind of grit and intensity that people have reacted to. And I tip my hat to her for that, you know? It's, um, it's not... You, you need that kind of support, ah, to get something like, uh, American Primeval made today, because it's not, you know, it's not your grandmother's Western.

Joe Rogan 16:56 No. It's critical that you do it that way, because if people want to really know what that was like, if you read the historical accounts of what happened, that's what happened.

Peter Berg 17:07 For sure.

Joe Rogan 17:07 It happened that way.

Peter Berg 17:09 And, you know, the-

Joe Rogan 17:10 And it's... It was horrific.

Peter Berg 17:12 One of the things that, you know, a lot of people have, have talked about, and I had... You know, the LDS church issued a statement sort of critiquing the show and critiquing me, um, which I appreciate, and I understand why, um, members of the Mormon community would be offended by the portrayal of Brigham Young, um, and the Meadows ma- the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which was the event that, you know, we use as kind of our inciting incident, um, for the first episode. Which was a real massacre that the Mormons committed on a group of, uh, pioneers who were heading out West, where, um, m- uh, Mormon militia with some, um, uh, uh, Paiute Indians attacked and murdered about 140 men, women, and children.... and we present that, uh, in the, in the film, and we present Brigham Young in the film. And most, m- many Mormons, it's interesting if you start reading all the debate about it, but a lot of Mormons were saying, "Yeah, this is exactly what happened, and this is a part of our history," and then other Mormons, particularly the, the seniors in Salt Lake City were saying, "This is not what happened. This is not fair." But what I, what I find interesting about the Mormon, uh, Church, and, and about kinda how we present it, is I've had a lot of people come to me and go, "Dude, I never knew the Mormons were such savages."

Joe Rogan 18:33 (laughs) So gangster.

Peter Berg 18:34 They were fucking gangster.

Joe Rogan 18:36 Gangster. (laughs)

Peter Berg 18:36 Brigham Young was, in my opinion, a gangster, a survivor, a warrior. And for anyone who follows, um, Mormon history, you know, they started in Upstate New York with this young kid, Joseph Smith, who found these tablets and basically rewrote the Bible, and started getting this following. And then they moved to Missouri and they got popular, and then there was an extermination order, and it was, "Kill all the Mormons." So they fled to Illinois and, and tried to survive up there at this place called Nauvoo that was gonna be their, you know, peaceful place to live. And, and Joseph Smith was murdered, and they were run out of, uh, Illinois. And Brigham Young led these dudes, men and women, on foot across the plains in the winter to Salt Lake Valley, which was this desolate wasteland, and he said, "Oh, we'll stay here. They'll never come for us here." And they started coming, and Brigham Young basically said, "Fuck it. We're not taking it anymore." He built his own army, the Nauvoo Legion, and he said, "We're, we're staying here. We won't mess with you, but if you come after us, we will fight." And that, that point, I think, is interesting, and I think Brigham Young, uh, who survived more, longer than all of them, and if you go to Salt Lake City, he did a pretty good job.

Joe Rogan 19:58 (laughs)

Peter Berg 19:58 Right? Like-

Joe Rogan 19:59 Yeah.

Peter Berg 19:59 ... that's a big city, man. And-

Joe Rogan 20:01 It's a great city.

Peter Berg 20:01 ... and, and I don't know. I, I, I respect the Mormon religion. I respect Brigham Young, and I feel like we make him look like a gangster in American Primeval, and, um, I don't know. He's, he's a survivor, and I respect that.

Joe Rogan 20:20 Well, this is the reality of historical figures. You're, you're talking about a different time in the world, and it was a particularly barbaric time. And if you wanted to survive, this is what you had to do. And this is n- we're not talking about the United States in 2025. We're, we're talking about the Wild West, and, and you're talking about a persecuted group of religious people. Like, if you wanna survive, you want your children to survive, like-

Peter Berg 20:48 You gotta fight.

Joe Rogan 20:48 ... you gotta take up arms. That's just how it is. Like, you know the story about the Mormons in Mexico, right?

Peter Berg 20:53 Remind me.

Joe Rogan 20:54 Well, um, there's Mormon sects in Mexico that moved there when they made, uh, poly-

Peter Berg 21:03 Polygamy?

Joe Rogan 21:03 ... polygamy legal.

Peter Berg 21:03 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:05 And this was, uh, homeboy from, um, Massachusetts, Mitt Romney. His family is from Mexico. His father was born in Mexico, and his father could never be president because he wasn't born in America. And then he was born here in America, ran for president and the whole deal, became governor of Massachusetts. But there's still these huge groups in Mexico that are armed to the fucking tits-

Peter Berg 21:29 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:29 ... because they're always constantly battling with the cartel, and there was, uh, a series of murders a few years back where women and children, like family were slaughtered. And there was some confusion as to whether or not the cartel targeted them or whether it was a case of mistaken identity or what happened. But, you know, there, there's been documentaries about them. They're fucking ... They live in armed compounds.

Peter Berg 21:53 The Mormons?

Joe Rogan 21:53 In Mexico. Yeah.

Peter Berg 21:54 Yeah. Well that, that would be-

Joe Rogan 21:55 So it's a similar sort of a situation with them in Mexico now.

Peter Berg 22:00 One, I mean, the, the polygamy was a thing, and, you know, we, we do touch upon that a bit in, in Primeval. I think Brigham Young had 40-odd wives.

Joe Rogan 22:11 Nice.

Peter Berg 22:11 And, and- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:12 (laughs)

Peter Berg 22:12 That-

Joe Rogan 22:14 How do you fucking keep up with two?

Peter Berg 22:16 I, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 22:17 I don't under- understand how someone could have two wives.

Peter Berg 22:19 That, that's a whole nother conversation. I mean, I, I have a friend who, uh, lives in, in Saudi Arabia, and a long time ago I was, I was in Saudi Arabia doing some work, and I had asked him, 'cause in Saudi you can have multiple wives, Saudi, Saudi men. And I had asked him about that and sort of what, like, "Wow, that's amazing. Multiple wives. Tha- that's so cool."

Joe Rogan 22:41 (laughs)

Peter Berg 22:41 And we were leaving, we were leaving Riyadh Airport, and, uh, he was walking with me, and there was a man in front of us and he was holding, like, five suitcases, and he could barely walk. And there were four women around him, and kids everywhere, and he just looked like he was about to collapse and fall face forward on the ground at the airport in Riyadh. And my friend looked at me and said, "Pete, this is the reality of what having five wives looks like, um, on the ground, if you wanna see what, what it really feels like." So to think about Brigham Young having, you know, 45 wives, um, uh, okay. G- good- good luck, I guess. Uh-

Joe Rogan 23:22 (laughs)

Peter Berg 23:22 (laughs) Um, right? Um, yeah. Uh, but that, that was one of the m- the, the issues, the polygamy, that people that were non-Mormons back in 1850s were using to attack the religion, and, um, you know, that was something that was ... the, the polygamy has obviously been since outlawed and the, the church has cut itself, uh, off from that policy. But, um, you know, the Mormons were ... the whole idea that this kid, Joseph Smith, I believe he was a young teenager, 15-

Joe Rogan 23:53 14.

Peter Berg 23:53 ... 14-

Joe Rogan 23:54 Yeah.

Peter Berg 23:54 ... when he, uh, he and his buddy walked into these woods-... I mean, like, 18, late 1830s, right? Like-

Joe Rogan 24:02 I think it was 1820.

Peter Berg 24:04 Okay.

Joe Rogan 24:04 When did he, um, find, when did Joseph Smith supposedly find these golden tablets?

Peter Berg 24:08 The tablets.

Joe Rogan 24:09 I believe it was...

Narrator 24:10 He had 56 wives.

Joe Rogan 24:10 But either way. Early-

Narrator 24:12 Brigham Young had 56 wives.

Peter Berg 24:13 Brigham Young had 56? (laughing) There's, there's a photo of-

Joe Rogan 24:16 There's 16 he forgot about.

Narrator 24:18 It's disputed, it's, it's disputed though.

Peter Berg 24:18 All right, see? I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna oversell it, so I undersell it.

Joe Rogan 24:22 (laughs)

Peter Berg 24:22 I kind of knew it was in the 50s. He had 56 wives.

Joe Rogan 24:25 That's so-

Narrator 24:26 46 kids only, only four, excuse me, only 46 kids made it to adulthood.

Peter Berg 24:30 Wow.

Narrator 24:30 So that's part of why.

Joe Rogan 24:32 Oh, wow. Only 46?

Narrator 24:33 Um-

Joe Rogan 24:35 He's basically Genghis Khan of Utah. But- (laughs)

Narrator 24:38 1823, he was visited by an angel who directed him about a buried book of-

Joe Rogan 24:41 1823?

Narrator 24:42 Yeah.

Peter Berg 24:42 And how old was he, like?

Joe Rogan 24:44 14.

Peter Berg 24:44 14. So-

Joe Rogan 24:45 Yeah.

Peter Berg 24:46 But so this kid at 14 comes out of the woods and says, "The angel came and told me that the Bible's almost right, but it's not quite right. So I'm gonna rewrite it." Which he did, the Book of Mormon. And look at where we are today. It was not that long ago, right? And, and in the course of that journey from Joseph Smith coming out of the woods to where we are today with Brigham Young University and the, you know, beautiful city of Salt Lake City, Utah, um, there was a lot of bloodshed. And Joseph Smith was murdered. Brigham Young, uh, fought, and another interesting theory that isn't proven, but it's, I believe it, it, it, it holds, is what saved the Mormons, because in 1857 when you had the Mormon Wars, you know, Brigham Young was fighting the President Buchanan, and when the military was coming after him in 1857, and he was holed up and prepared to fight in Salt Lake City, and Buchanan wanted him out. And then right around 1858, 1859, a little thing called the Civil War popped off.

Joe Rogan 25:55 Oh.

Peter Berg 25:55 And the entire focus of the US military was not on Brigham Young and Utah, but it was on fighting the Civil War. The Utah Church was able, and Brigham Young was able to grow the, the Mormon Church, and survive and, and thrive. And he was able to politically negotiate, you know, a place in the government, so that by the time the Civil War ended, Brigham Young was deeply entrenched, and was, you know, able to lead the Mormon Church to the great power that it is today. I think if the Civil War hadn't occurred, there would be no Mormonism in the United States.

Joe Rogan 26:31 Wow. That's crazy. What a fortuitous turn of events.

Peter Berg 26:34 And I'm gonna probably get ripped on for that one, but I believe it's supportable.

Joe Rogan 26:39 Yeah, you're gonna get ripped for everything, whatever.

Peter Berg 26:40 That's okay.

Joe Rogan 26:41 That's just how it is. Mormons are the nicest people. My next door neighbors used to be Mormons. They're the nicest fucking people.

Peter Berg 26:47 I agree. I, I completely agree. And-

Joe Rogan 26:50 They're so nice. I know a ton of Mormons, 'cause I know a bunch of people in Utah. ...

Peter Berg 26:54 And Salt Lake City, U- is a, Utah is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful state. Salt Lake City's a cool city. And like I'm down with the Sundance Film Festival, so I'm down with the whole state.

Joe Rogan 27:07 Yeah. No, I love Utah. But it is a fascinating story. It's a fas- and, and it's ... You know, look, they have a great sense of humor, because the Book of Mormon, when, when, uh, Matt Stone and Trey Parker did that musical, they took out a full page ad in the Playbook. So they're like, "If you wanna know more about Mormonism-"

Peter Berg 27:26 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 27:26 "... come visit. Like, find out the real thing."

Peter Berg 27:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:28 So instead of protesting and suing and attacking them, and they just took out a fucking ad.

Peter Berg 27:36 So when I was doing-

Joe Rogan 27:38 Which is, I think that shows incredible character.

Peter Berg 27:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:42 To be able ... You know?

Peter Berg 27:42 For sure, for sure. And Mo-

Joe Rogan 27:43 'Cause that fucking ... You've seen the Book of Mormon, right?

Peter Berg 27:45 Yes I have.

Joe Rogan 27:45 Hilarious.

Peter Berg 27:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:47 And pretty brutal.

Peter Berg 27:48 It, it-

Joe Rogan 27:48 And they're like, "Well, if you'd like, if you'd like to find out more about Mormonism ..."

Peter Berg 27:51 Yeah. I can't figure out, like I, when I was doing my research for, uh, American Primeval, I went to Salt Lake City, and the Mormon Church gave me a tour. And, and you know, I told them what the film was about, and that the Mountain Meadows Massacre was in the book, or was gonna be in our show. And they took me to, um, the theater. Have you ever been to the theater, the Mormon Theater in Salt Lake City?

Joe Rogan 28:16 No.

Peter Berg 28:16 Holds like 20,000 people. It is the most beautiful, incredible theater, um, where they have, you know, weekly, you know, events and meetings. And they took me in there, and there's a huge pipe organ. And I had a private, you know, concert with their organist. Yeah, it's that.

Joe Rogan 28:33 Whoa. Look at that place.

Peter Berg 28:34 Uh, and they, and I sat by myself in the, in the center of that theater. And, and you see the pipe organs.

Joe Rogan 28:41 Yeah.

Peter Berg 28:42 Uh, and they, they gave me a, a private ch- you know, concert. And then they took me into the museum and showed me, you know, the history of the Mormon Church. And I told them about the Meadows Massacre, which, you know, I've taken heat for in the show. And at the end of the tour, there's a bookstore, um, in the, in the, in the museum, the Mormon Museum in Salt Lake. And the book Mountain Meadows Massacre by this guy Turley was there. And I'm like, "I wanna buy this book." I read the book, and I'm like, "Oh, for sure we're putting this, this story in our film." And it, it was for sale in the Mormon bookstore.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Whoa.

Peter Berg 29:19 And I met with the author, uh, Turley, who then took me to the site of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. And he had written the book with the, um, support of the Mormon Church to get their side of the story out.

Joe Rogan 29:32 Did you film at the actual site?

Peter Berg 29:33 No, we didn't. That was in, the actual site was in Utah. But I went and toured it.

Joe Rogan 29:38 So you filmed in New Mexico?

Peter Berg 29:39 Yeah, we filmed, we filmed everything in uh, uh, on different reservations around Santa Fe. Um, but if you go to the m- the site of the Mormon Meadows Massacre in Utah ...... the Mormons have built a big memorial there honoring the, you know, 130 pioneers from Arkansas who were, were killed there. And the Mormons have, have o- have owned this event, and they were very willing to talk about it, which is kind of like them buying a full-page ad in-

Joe Rogan 30:07 (laughs)

Peter Berg 30:07 ... in Book of Mormon.

Joe Rogan 30:08 Right, right.

Peter Berg 30:09 They're like, they're like, you know, "We know you're gonna make a film about the Mor- the Meadows Massacre, that's probably gonna be inflammatory in some ways. However, come visit us. We wanna meet you, we wanna show you, we wanna play music, uh, for you." And, um, I don't, I had an incredible time with the Mormons that were, you know, involved with us doing the research for, for Primeval.

Joe Rogan 30:33 This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. I've been asking dog-owning friends what they feed their dogs, and most of them are surprised by the question, and I get it. For decades, kibble was the only option. But as humans have been eating healthier, companies like The Farmer's Dog started feeding dogs healthier too, because when your dog eats freshly made human-grade food, owners notice a bunch of positive changes, including weight loss and higher energy levels, basically happier dogs. Did you know that overweight dogs can live an average of 2.5 years less? And did you know that 60% of dogs are overweight? So when my, my friends say, "I just feed my dog kibble or whatever," I tell them, "No, you gotta think about this one. You have to try The Farmer's Dog, because no one, dog or human, should be eating highly processed food for every meal." So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of healthy, freshly made food, plus free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. Tap the banner, or visit this episode's page to learn more. The offer is for new customers only. So what is the backlash, though? If they've admitted that this m- massacre took place, and it's a historical, it's part of the historical record, the book is for sale i- in this Mormon theater, what is the backlash?

Peter Berg 31:53 The biggest, the biggest single issue if you get into the weeds, and I think it's an interesting point of debate, is whether or not Brigham Young knew and authorized this massacre. And the way the massacre played out in real life was different how we did it in the film. In the film, we did it in, you know, one swell move. Like, it just happens, and you know, we, we filmed it in one shot, and it's, you know, pretty intense, visceral, very fast events, and then it's over. In reality, this, this wagon train was surrounded by the Mormon militia, the Nauvoo Legion, and some of these Native Americans, and it went on for about four or five days. And the Mormons dressed up as Native Americans. This is where it gets kind of... The, some Mormons aren't thrilled that we pointed out the fact that they were trying to put the blame on the Native A- Americans. So they literally, Mormons dressed up as Indians to confuse the pioneers, and in case there were survivors to say, "Oh, it wasn't Mormons, it was the Native Americans that did this." So, they don't love that. But what, what the Mormons claim, or some in the Mormon Church claim, is that during the three or four days that the siege took place, before the actual massacre, uh, and the details of the massacre are really fucked up, because the Mormons pretended they were accepting a surrender. Uh, so they went in with white flags, and they said, "Okay, the men walk this way, the women and children w- we're gonna walk you to safety, because the Indians are gonna kill you." The Mormons said, "We're here to save you." So they started walking them out, and then on a, someone's signal, they just killed everyone. It was really bad. Um, but the issue of whether Brigham Young knew about it or didn't know about it, we imply that he knew about it. We never say that he authorized it, but we imply that he did know about it. And what many of the, the, the defenders of Brigham Young will say is that there was a letter written where Brigham Young said, "Do not harm the, these pioneers. Don't, don't kill them." But the letter was sent by horse while the massacre, while the event was already occurring, so I've had people say he knew that that letter wasn't gonna make it there in time. He was covering himself. "Oh, hey, I wrote a letter."

Joe Rogan 34:06 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 34:07 "I knew it couldn't get there in time, but I wrote a letter so there's plausible den- deniability." No one knows. It's hard to believe if you really start getting into this, and obviously I did, and know it's not on the top of everyone's list of things...

Joe Rogan 34:19 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 34:19 ... to give a fuck about. But it's really hard for me to believe that in 1857, a group of Brigham Young's soldiers would on, act unilaterally on their own and commit a crime this horrible without somebody approving it. It's hard, it's hard for me to...

Joe Rogan 34:35 Yeah.

Peter Berg 34:35 ... to imagine. But, um, so that's the single issue that tends to, um, you know, if, if I do, and I really try not to, like, um, my girlfriends turned me on to Reddit. I never even really knew what it was.

Joe Rogan 34:49 (laughs)

Peter Berg 34:49 Oh my God. Like, I don't-

Joe Rogan 34:52 Like, what? Uh.

Peter Berg 34:53 Like, like, Reddit is fucking crazy.

Joe Rogan 34:57 Yeah.

Peter Berg 34:57 Um, I was talking to, uh, you know Jack Carr, right?

Joe Rogan 35:02 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 35:02 You know, and he's, uh, he's getting into, you know, making movies, and he's doing all this cool stuff with The Terminal List, and, and I think he's a great guy. And he was talking to me about, um, reviews, 'cause it was the first time he was ever getting reviewed, right? And, you know, any filmmaker who says they don't read the reviews is lying, okay? They're just fucking lying. And, and they, we do read reviews. And we care, it, and they hurt, you know? And, and he's like, I guess he'd gotten, you know, read something he didn't like on, um, The Terminal List, and he's just called me, he's like, "How do you handle this shit? I wanna kill this mother- I can't," (laughs) I mean, "Ah, ah, ah."

Joe Rogan 35:40 (laughs)

Peter Berg 35:40 And he's freaking out, and I'm, I mean, I'm not, he, he wasn't really freaking out that bad, but he was pissed. And, and I'm like, "Jack, you know, welcome to the world of, you know, what we do. You, people are gonna, are gonna talk."... and like, and like, you don't understand what ... Like, before Reddit, and, and comments, and all the things, back when we first put movies out, man, there were three critics that mattered, like, when I first started making movies. There was this guy, Kenneth Turan, in, uh, in the LA Times. There was Janet Maslin in the New York Times, and then there was Siskel and Ebert, right?

Joe Rogan 36:14 Yeah.

Peter Berg 36:14 Thumbs up. And like, they had so much power, right?

Joe Rogan 36:18 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 36:18 So you'd, you'd make a movie, and you'd spend, you know, tens of millions of dollars, and you'd put your heart and soul, and ... And like, we never tried to make bad movies, right? Like, that's, that's never the goal. We're always like, you know, we wanna win. Some ... It's hard to make a good movie. But you'd put all your, your heart and soul into these movies, and then it's fucking three critics that control your fate, right? And I was telling Cara about, um, you know, my first movie was called Very Bad Things. It was about this bachelor party that goes haywire, and-

Joe Rogan 36:51 That's a great movie.

Peter Berg 36:51 Appreciate it. Thank you.

Joe Rogan 36:53 I love that movie.

Peter Berg 36:53 So that movie got, hands down, the worst review ever given to a movie-

Joe Rogan 37:00 (laughs)

Peter Berg 37:00 ... in the history of film reviews. Please don't pull it up right now.

Joe Rogan 37:03 (laughs)

Peter Berg 37:04 But feel free. Anyone listening, Kenneth Turan's review of my film-

Joe Rogan 37:09 Wow.

Peter Berg 37:09 ... Very Bad Things, in the Los Angeles Times, okay? I read this review. I literally vomit. Like, people talk about vomiting. Like, I don't know if you've ever vomited when something bad happens. I puked. I went into, like, shock. I'm like, "I ... He tried to destroy my career." And he, like, it was ... And so I'm telling Jack, and I'm going, "Pull it up right now. Pull it up." And he starts reading it, and he's like, "Oh my God."

Joe Rogan 37:36 (laughs)

Peter Berg 37:37 "Oh my God."

Joe Rogan 37:38 (laughs)

Peter Berg 37:39 I go, "Don't fucking tell me about bad reviews, okay?"

Joe Rogan 37:42 Okay.

Peter Berg 37:42 "Because I got the worst." And Kenneth Turan, who like, after I'd gotten that review, I was in a bar at the Four Seasons Hotel in Los Angeles, getting drunk with a couple of my friends, and Kenneth Turan was in the bar. And I got up and started moving towards him. Like, I was in a blackout rage.

Joe Rogan 38:01 (laughs)

Peter Berg 38:02 And, and, and my friend, Joe, and, and, uh, Mike Mendelson held me back 'cause I was gonna get him, you know?

Joe Rogan 38:09 (laughs)

Peter Berg 38:09 And, and for, for three films after that, Kenneth Turan, he just had it out for me, this guy. Hated me. And finally, on, I believe it was either Friday Night Lights or Lone Survivor, he reluctantly gave me a good review. But it was more like, "A broken clock is right tw- twice a day-"

Joe Rogan 38:28 Ah.

Peter Berg 38:28 "... than peo-" But like, nowadays, like, as I said to Jack, it's like, okay, if you ... The, the crazy thing about ... If you're focusing on how your, your work is being perceived, and it matters, and it does matter. Any- like I say, anyone who says it doesn't, I think is kind of lying.

Joe Rogan 38:46 Don't you think it matters more about the audience than about the critics?

Peter Berg 38:50 100%. That's it.

Joe Rogan 38:51 My perspective on critics is that, that no one wants to be a critic. Generally, they wanted to be creative, but they're not good enough-

Peter Berg 38:59 For sure.

Joe Rogan 39:00 ... to contribute.

Peter Berg 39:00 For sure.

Joe Rogan 39:01 They don't have anything to contribute.

Peter Berg 39:02 And, and they're, they're using a different standard that doesn't really apply to just like, the working human being-

Joe Rogan 39:08 Right.

Peter Berg 39:08 ... that just wants to be entertained. And that's why I said to Jack, I go, "Dude, like, like, you know, we have Rotten Tomatoes, right? Which is a way of, you know-"

Joe Rogan 39:16 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 39:16 "... critics, if-"

Joe Rogan 39:17 Sure.

Peter Berg 39:17 "... if you get 61% good, you get a fresh tomato. If not, you're, you know, you've got a rotten tomato. And that, that sucks. Okay, I've got a rotten tomato. That sucks. Oh, I got a fresh tomato. Oh, I ... That's great." But now they have the audience score right next to the critic score.

Joe Rogan 39:34 Yes.

Peter Berg 39:35 And that's the one that I said, "Jack, don't look at the critics. Look at what your audience is saying." And that's when, you know-

Joe Rogan 39:42 Yeah.

Peter Berg 39:42 ... like, I learned about Reddit and all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 39:44 (laughs)

Peter Berg 39:44 And I'm like, "Fuck the critics. I'm down with this Reddit shit," because you get such interesting conversations.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Yes.

Peter Berg 39:51 Um, and they're much more thoughtful, I think. Um, and they've taken away the power, you know. And, and I'm not shitting on critics. I get it. You wanna be a critic, whatever, you know. I, I do like the l- um, the cr- the, the quote about critics in life doesn't go to the critic. It's th- The Man in the Arena.

Joe Rogan 40:10 Yes.

Peter Berg 40:10 I like that quote, and I believe in that. Um, and I've used that to justify my mood (laughs) when I get a bad review. I'll just read The Man in th- the Arena over and over until I feel good.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Is that Theodore Roosevelt?

Peter Berg 40:22 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:23 Yeah.

Peter Berg 40:23 Um, that's a great quote.

Joe Rogan 40:25 Great quote.

Peter Berg 40:26 Um-

Joe Rogan 40:26 Fantastic quote.

Peter Berg 40:26 And, and it's true.

Joe Rogan 40:27 Yes.

Peter Berg 40:27 It is absolutely true that-

Joe Rogan 40:29 Yeah.

Peter Berg 40:29 ... that, you know ... And to, to-do, to-do, people that do, um, you know, uh ... I was just talking to, to Dana White, uh, and, and about something that I actually wanna mention to you. But ... And the, the, my, my love of a guy like Dana is the, the doer of it all, the guy who just says, "I don't care what the critic says. I'm going this way. I am fucking going this way. And if I win, and you're with me on the ride, you're part of me. If, if I lose, and you're still with me, you're my friend. If not, I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna do it again." And I have, I have so much respect for that. And, and I'll tell you another interesting thing about my business that never s- uh, uh ... It never f- I, I ... It always surprises me how real it is. But when you make something, a movie, or you do something, whether it's American Premier of almost anything I've done, and I, I don't know if you've ever experienced this. You know, you put yourself on the line so intensely, and, and you believe in it with your heart and your soul, and you go for it. And as it's getting ready to come out, there's this weird thing that happens, where everybody separates from you. And you're the one that's kinda ... Now you're about to be judged. It's gonna be determined to be successful or a failure, and it's gonna get reviewed, and everyone's kinda like ...... "Good luck, Pete."

Joe Rogan 42:00 (laughs)

Peter Berg 42:01 "Good luck." And I could like... Like the, the day or two before it comes out, all the people like... And they're... And, and this is when you know who's got your back, okay?

Joe Rogan 42:11 Yeah.

Peter Berg 42:11 'Cause there's a few... You look around and like, "Wait, all these people were with me for this journey and I'm all by my fucking s-... Where, where'd everybody go?"

Joe Rogan 42:21 (laughs)

Peter Berg 42:21 And it's, you know, like, my sister, my best friend, Ari, my dog, my son. There's a few people who are really right there. And then, and then when it comes out and it works, man, you have a lot of friends. And, and-

Joe Rogan 42:40 Yeah.

Peter Berg 42:40 ... and that's, you know, just one of the things that you have to do, um, in this business. And it's why the critics, fuck 'em, and it's why Dana and people like that, you, who do, you know, create it and build it and make it, and it, it's real.

Joe Rogan 43:00 You definitely need feedback 'cause you definitely need to know if you're on the right track, but you can get lost in feedback. You can get lost in positive feedback too.

Peter Berg 43:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:08 You get lost... You can get lost in people approving you and, and, and jo-... You, you can get drunk in it. I don't read anything. I don't read anything about me.

Peter Berg 43:19 No Reddits ever?

Joe Rogan 43:20 Nothing. I don't read anything. I just... I get it. Like sometimes I'm good, sometimes I'm not as good. That's... I get it. I do my best. That's all I can do. And I feel like if you're really self-critical, which I am, and you're, you're objective and you, you analyze yourself and you... and, and you're brutally honest. If you're brutally honest about what you've done and how it is, like could you have done it better? The... Is there anything... Did you cut corners?

Peter Berg 43:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:47 Did you... And if you don't, if you don't cut corners and if you do your best and you really prepare, that's all you can do. You just do your very best. And if you haven't done your best, that's when the critics really sting. If you know that you kind of slacked off or you weren't focused or there's something that was wrong with what you... Then it's gonna sting.

Peter Berg 44:04 Or you did it, did for the money, like-

Joe Rogan 44:06 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peter Berg 44:06 ... that, that can often...

Joe Rogan 44:07 Yes.

Peter Berg 44:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:08 I, I agree with that. The do it for the money is a real, real one, you know. I mean, that's the, the downfall of Robert De Niro.

Peter Berg 44:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:14 Right? He needs money for divorces, his... You know, he's got marital problems and so he spent a lot of money and he starts doing these fantasy movies with Michelle Pfeiffer.

Peter Berg 44:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:22 And it's like bizarre shit-

Peter Berg 44:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:24 ... where he's like... You're like, "What is Robert De Niro, one of the greatest actors of all time, doing in these fucking"-

Peter Berg 44:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:28 ... "goofy-ass movies?"

Peter Berg 44:29 Yeah. You get extended... I, I agree with you that like... What I always say is I do a lot of research for my films and, you know, have... Went to Iraq with a Navy SEAL platoon and lived on an oil rig and went back to high school for Friday Night Lights. And I found that if I... Whenever I put that work in and I put that research in, um, and I really re-... With the exception of Very Bad Things, which was a fantasy about a bachelor party gone haywire, which Ken Aturan didn't like.

Joe Rogan 44:59 (laughs)

Peter Berg 45:00 And it, it did, it did hurt me. It did, that review, but I was younger. Um, but if, if I do stay true to my instincts and my passion, and I follow it, A, the work seems to connect much, much better. And I don't, I don't feel... If somebody doesn't like it or wants to talk about it or debate it-

Joe Rogan 45:19 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 45:20 ... okay. It's... I don't... It doesn't hurt me.

Joe Rogan 45:23 Yeah, that's experience, right?

Peter Berg 45:24 I think so, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:25 Yeah. That's-

Peter Berg 45:25 Yeah. And any time I've done a job for the money, and there have been a couple, it's, it's backfired horrifically.

Joe Rogan 45:32 Yup.

Peter Berg 45:32 And the money was never worth it.

Joe Rogan 45:34 Right.

Peter Berg 45:34 Um, the, the, the, the crit-... The reviews did sting worse. Um, and-

Joe Rogan 45:40 'Cause you agreed with them.

Peter Berg 45:42 Yeah, they were right.

Joe Rogan 45:42 They were. Yeah.

Peter Berg 45:43 I was lazy. I didn't give a fuck. I was... You know, I, I cared. I still... I didn't phone it in, but I wasn't locked in.

Joe Rogan 45:50 Right.

Peter Berg 45:51 And-

Joe Rogan 45:51 That's the difference, right?

Peter Berg 45:52 And... Yeah. And I think one of the reasons that you don't have to read your shit is because you know you're locked in. You just are. And that's why you're, you're connecting. Uh, um, and, and, and lo- locking in. And I say it to filmmakers now because... So, kids are so confused, young kids that wanna become filmmakers, you know, that they, they think they're... You know, they're gonna work hard and they're gonna make these movies and they're gonna put their heart and soul into them and people are gonna watch them. And then they go on and they see TikTok videos that are getting, you know, 400 million likes.

Joe Rogan 46:28 (laughs)

Peter Berg 46:28 And someone's just, you know, live streaming them like making toast.

Joe Rogan 46:32 (laughs)

Peter Berg 46:33 (laughs) And they're like... They're like, "Wait a minute. What the fuck is happening?"

Joe Rogan 46:37 Yeah.

Peter Berg 46:37 And I say, "Look, all you can do is control your passion, your work, your t-... your discipline."

Joe Rogan 46:44 Yeah.

Peter Berg 46:45 And, and believe in something and put the work in, and I believe that the results, you know, will, will take care of themselves. Um, but it's, it's weird, you know, for, for filmmakers today and... To try and figure out how, how to... what's gonna penetrate and what's not gonna penetrate, and-

Joe Rogan 47:02 Yeah.

Peter Berg 47:03 I remember when, uh, when w-... The... I did that, that series about, uh, opioids, Painkiller. And, you know, that... Pretty heavy issue, and we worked really hard on that. And I was very, very proud of it. And, you know, we came out number one on Netflix, and we were number one for like six, seven days around the world. And on the eighth day, we were number two. And the number one show was a documentary made on cellphone footage about the Johnny Depp, uh, Amber Heard div- divorce trial-

Joe Rogan 47:34 (laughs)

Peter Berg 47:34 ... where people were just in the parking lots. And that was the number one show on Netflix-

Joe Rogan 47:39 Oh, no.

Peter Berg 47:39 ... in the world. And I'm like, "Whoa."

Joe Rogan 47:42 Oh.

Peter Berg 47:42 "Wow." Like, you know.

Joe Rogan 47:43 Yeah.

Peter Berg 47:43 They probably made that for $25,000-

Joe Rogan 47:47 (laughs)

Peter Berg 47:47 ... if that. And it... The... Everything is sort of... There's this great parody now. And I'm like... And it's confusing, but I'm like, "Dude, you just have to work harder."

Joe Rogan 47:56 Yeah.

Peter Berg 47:56 And, and you... If you're not telling the truth-

Joe Rogan 48:00 ... you're gonna have a, a harder time. You, you can't be in the business of getting the most attention, because, uh, t- t- human beings are easily distracted, easily amused. We like a lot of things that have zero quality, and just because we're watching it doesn't mean it resonates with us. Just because you're watching the Amber Heard trial doesn't mean it's changing the way you feel about things, really entertaining you. And it... And not just entertaining you, but stimulating you in a, in a way like, "Wow, like, that was a fucking masterful piece of cinema."

Peter Berg 48:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:31 You know? There's, there's a difference, you know? And yeah, there's gonna be a bunch of people that s- just watch people unbox cell phones or eat octopus. You know, there's like, there's weird videos that get a lot of likes.

Peter Berg 48:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:42 But you're not in the business of attention. You're in the business of art.

Peter Berg 48:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:46 And, um, I feel like when it comes to respo- th- paying attention to comments and critics, I feel like if you're locked in, and if you're doing your best, if you don't... If you're one of those people that don't need to be checked on, some people need to be checked on. Some people get off the rails, they get a little full of themselves, and they need a little something to just, like, set them back. You need someone to say, "That one sucked," you're like, "Goddamn it," and then you work harder. But if, but if you're working as hard as you can, this is what m- my advice that I give comedians when it comes to comments and things like that, and, and negativity. You only have so much attention. And think of your atten- attention as if it was a, a number.

Peter Berg 49:27 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:28 Like, you have 100 units of attention.

Peter Berg 49:30 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:31 Now, if you're spending 30 units paying attention to comments and, and negative articles and criticism, that's 30 units you can't use for something that you love. That's thir-... And then also, it probably bleeds into your thoughts when you're doing those things that you do love. Particularly, like, devastating negative reviews and comments and things that are, like, really hurt you, that hurt your feelings.

Peter Berg 49:57 Take a lot of numbers.

Joe Rogan 49:58 Yeah.

Peter Berg 49:58 It takes a lot of numbers.

Joe Rogan 49:59 It's, it's just bandwidth. You're, you're robbing yourself of your ability to do the things that you love. You're robbing your- yourself of your ability to pay attention to your family, your ability to, to contact your friends and reach out and, and to be present, 'cause you're thinking, "Oh my God, I can't believe he hated my movie. Oh my God, I can't believe, you know, I bombed. Oh my God, I can't believe this podcast sucked." Whatever it is. You- you're robbing yourself. You can only do your best. And if you're doing... If you're not doing your best, you probably need those comments. You need something to wake you the fuck up-

Peter Berg 50:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:34 ... and get locked in. But if you're locked in, you don't want it. You should know. I know if I talk too much, I know if I interrupt too much. I know and I, and I'll, I'll drive home, I'm like, "Ugh. I hate it."

Peter Berg 50:46 You don't need, you don't need to be reminded of that.

Joe Rogan 50:48 I don't need it.

Peter Berg 50:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:49 I fucking hate me. (laughs)

Peter Berg 50:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:51 I'm my number one critic. So, I don't pay attention. And this is something that I had to figure out over the years.

Peter Berg 50:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:58 But I... When, when I knocked it down to a formula of attention bandwidth, that's when I really understood it. 'Cause I'm like, okay, the, the times... Even distractions. Like, the times that I'm spending p- just scrolling through Instagram and looking at nonsense, like, that hour is a valuable-

Peter Berg 51:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:17 ... hour to me.

Peter Berg 51:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:18 I could've been doing, like, real good things with that hour, where I feel good about it. Or I get nothing, just, just distraction. Just nothing. Which is fine sometimes, if you're on a fucking airplane or something like that, you got nothing to do. Like, w- who cares?

Peter Berg 51:31 Is it really ever fine, do you think?

Joe Rogan 51:33 I think it's okay sometimes, 'cause it-

Peter Berg 51:34 But barely. Barely.

Joe Rogan 51:35 As a comedian, I think there's a value in having your thumb on the pulse of culture. And even the chaotic, you know, fucking unboxing videos and food and stupid shit and people just sticking their ass out-

Peter Berg 51:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:49 ... and Insta hoes. Like, there's, there's a value in, in keeping your thumb on it. You just have to know when your thumb's getting burnt.

Peter Berg 51:55 I don't think there's a value in Insta hoes.

Joe Rogan 51:58 Nah. (laughs)

Peter Berg 51:58 I don't, I don't, I actually don't. And I've, I've gotten pretty good at, like, just removing that from my life. But, uh, I was challenged then.

Joe Rogan 52:06 Yeah.

Peter Berg 52:07 And the boxing? Okay, yeah, people putting shit in boxes. Maybe eating-

Joe Rogan 52:11 It's weird.

Peter Berg 52:12 ... e- eating asparagus, I guess.

Joe Rogan 52:14 I do enjoy cooking videos.

Peter Berg 52:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:16 I don't... I think there's value in that. I love watching chefs prepare food.

Peter Berg 52:19 W- where, where do you stand on... And this is something I talk to, to a lot of writers and filmmakers about, like, just being quiet is really important. And, and being... For me, the most creative experiences I've ever had have come far away from any stimulation, from any controlled thinking, from allowing ideas to come. To f- have like-

Joe Rogan 52:46 Yeah.

Peter Berg 52:46 ... like, the divi- the divine spirit, the angels that are creativity, that, that require a certain amount of quiet and space for those to, to emerge. At least for me they do.

Joe Rogan 52:58 Yeah.

Peter Berg 52:58 Uh, and I try to make space 'cause I so agree with the bandwidth, and you, you're right. But m- more than anything, just turning it all off-

Joe Rogan 53:10 Yes.

Peter Berg 53:10 ... can be so h- inspiring for me creatively.

Joe Rogan 53:13 Yeah, one of the most disappointing things that I've ever done, the most dis- some of the most disappointing things, is when I sit down from my computer to write and I wind up looking at my phone. And I just scroll and bullshit, and then I start writing but I'm distracted, and then I get an email or a text message comes through. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I'll text him." And I'm just distracting myself. And then I realize, like, after an hour and a half's gone, I just fucking wasted an hour and a half-

Peter Berg 53:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:37 ... that I could have written something that could've been, uh, a new brilliant bit. It could've been a new thing that I'm really excited about. Instead, I just fucked off.

Peter Berg 53:46 Yeah, so my, my creative, uh, (clears throat) process, like, I just... I just wrote a script, um, that, that'll be my next film. And I wrote it in a very locked-in zone. I, I try to find a way of locking myself into a s- uh...... a pattern when I'm writing, but it involves... The, the key for me is getting up about 4:45 at the latest, but usually right around. I, I'm crazy about it, so I'll set my alarm for 5:45 to the same song every morning that wakes me up. This script was Van Morrison. And from, I will go right, I'll take a piss, and then I'll get a cup of coffee, and then I'll go right to my writing room with no phone, no stimulation, nothing until I've put in, you know, usually about two and a half to three hours of just pure mental focus.

Joe Rogan 54:36 Hmm.

Peter Berg 54:36 Un- No distraction, no conversation, no news, no phone, no nothing.

Joe Rogan 54:42 Why do you like to do it in the morning?

Peter Berg 54:43 Because I think when you... Uh, I actually, um, like studying writers and their writing habits. I believe that, um, you know, if you've had a good sleep, a sober sleep, um, and an intentioned sleep, meaning you go to bed with some plan of what you wanna write tomorrow. So, I wanna wri- I'm making a film about marines, I wanna write, um, the landing at Okinawa, um, in World War II, which is part of this story. I know I'm gonna write the actual landing scene. I go to bed with that intention. I might even write that intention down. You wake up, your mind is like at, at its most fertile. It's like a calm pond, you know? Like a mountain pond that's absolutely flat and like glass and reflective and, and beautiful. And in the morning, it's at its most calm, your mind. And then I believe that every bit of stimulation you put into it is like a pebble or a rock being dropped into that water-

Joe Rogan 55:39 Oh.

Peter Berg 55:39 ... until the water starts getting all churned, and that's what happens to our minds. By, you know, 11 o'clock in the morning, if you've been, you know, plugged in and communicating, your mind is just a fucking feral r- you know-

Joe Rogan 55:53 Yeah.

Peter Berg 55:53 ... boiling, uh, cauldron of acid.

Joe Rogan 55:56 (laughs)

Peter Berg 55:57 This is how I think of it. So I like early morning, super calm, I can find the ideas. And I tend to, if I lock in like that, um, I write at a, at a high level. And kind of to your point about like critic proof, I know it's good. I, 'cause it, I know it, it came from the deepest place I have.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Right.

Peter Berg 56:20 And it's like, well, okay, if you don't like that, then you don't like me. Sorry.

Joe Rogan 56:23 Right. Which is fine.

Peter Berg 56:24 And I'm... Yeah, I can handle that.

Joe Rogan 56:25 Yeah.

Peter Berg 56:26 But like, I know that, you know, versus, you know, writing a little bit here, working a little bit there, and then going out to lunch, and then sitting in a cafe, and, and, you know, or a coffee shop and kinda writing but being on the phone, I just don't think that's deep work.

Joe Rogan 56:41 Yeah.

Peter Berg 56:41 And I, I, uh, I have noticed though that like rappers and a lot of people in the hip hop community... I've been working on a documentary about, um, Rihanna for quite a while, and spent a lot of time with her in the studio. And it's amazing the hours that, um, hip hop performers, you know, musicians, and rappers keep. 'Cause they're going into the studio at two o'clock in the morning and working till, you know, one in the afternoon, and then sleeping all day. And that, that wor- that nighttime, and I've talked to her about it, she's just extremely creative late at night. Almost for me the exact opposite. But like I-

Joe Rogan 57:21 Yeah.

Peter Berg 57:22 Like do you like to work creatively at night? Do you-

Joe Rogan 57:24 Yeah.

Peter Berg 57:25 Do, can you write comedy at night?

Joe Rogan 57:26 Yeah, I write when I get home.

Peter Berg 57:27 Wow.

Joe Rogan 57:28 Yeah. So what I do is I do shows, and then I come home and everyone's asleep. My whole house is asleep, so it's quiet.

Peter Berg 57:34 And you can access y-

Joe Rogan 57:35 Yeah, because my mind is really stimulated 'cause I just performed, you know? And, you know, I just, maybe have had a drink or two, and I just sit in front of the computer and I just start thinking.

Peter Berg 57:46 Really?

Joe Rogan 57:46 Yeah, I just start thinking, and I just start w- try to freestyle with thoughts. And the way I write is I just, I have a topic and I just start with e- just a, essentially an essay. And not an essay that I think anybody's gonna read. An essay who's just like my thoughts, just r- rambling thoughts, and then maybe I'll rewrite a paragraph, but I'll keep the same paragraph above it to reference, and then I'll rewrite it again in a different way.

Peter Berg 58:08 But like what kind of subject? Like what-

Joe Rogan 58:09 Anything, whatever it is. Um, te- technology-

Peter Berg 58:12 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:12 ... and how it's affecting our lives, and what, what our future's gonna be like. And then I'll sit down with that and, uh, think about the pros and cons, and like what... Do I really e- But, but hasn't every society faced this? Like would you wanna go back and live in the caveman days again? No, definitely not. Would you wa- and do you want to live in a time with no penicillin? No, no, no, no, no. Like so, how much technology is too much technology? And I'll just start writing, and outta that I'll get a bit. Out of that, I mean, not always, maybe one out of 10 times, something's useful. Like there's a lot of times I'm just throwing shit against the wall. But the key is throw a lot of shit.

Peter Berg 58:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:52 You have to throw a lot of things. You know, Hemingway fi- famously said, my friend Ari Shaffir, he has this, uh, on his laptop, it says, "The first draft of everything is shit."

Peter Berg 59:01 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard it.

Joe Rogan 59:02 It's, it's such a great quote. And it just sits on his laptop, and I love it. I love that. It's so true. And I just write. I just write, and-

Peter Berg 59:10 But when you're, when you're writing, like, 'cause I was just watching you t- as you were speaking, you were th- you were looking up at the sky, like for an idea. Do you, do you think about your, your writing intellectually? Th- Okay, I'm thinking this thought. Okay, I'm gonna write it down. Or are your hands on the keyboard and you're just channeling?

Joe Rogan 59:29 It's both. You know, sometimes I'm just sitting there thinking about it before I write, or in the middle of writing, like is this wr- am I correct? Is this how I'm looking at this, or am I trying to force this? And then, uh, I also write on a computer that is not connected to any apps. It doesn't have anything on it. The only thing it has on it is, um, it has like, it's a mi- it's a ThinkPad. So it has a...

Peter Berg 59:52 So you can't distract yourself?

Joe Rogan 59:53 Right. I can-

Peter Berg 59:54 That's-

Joe Rogan 59:54 I am allowed to Google things.... to find out if something's correct. That's it. There's, I've never, I don't go to websites. I don't l- look at it. This laptop is just for writing. It's connected to the internet, which is a tricky thing.

Peter Berg 1:00:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:07 But there's a rule. So my home computer is, there's no rules. I might watch YouTube videos. I might fucking watch a little Netflix. It's, you know, iMac, so it's big screen. I might do all kinds of stuff on that computer.

Peter Berg 1:00:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 But when I'm writing, my laptop is only for writing. And so there's, there's... I don't allow myself... There's no TikTok, there's no Instagram. There's no nothing. I don't ever look at anything else. I just write. And I use the browser, the... I use fucking Bing, which is like, who searches shit on Bing?

Peter Berg 1:00:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 But you could... You know, it's good enough to find out-

Peter Berg 1:00:43 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 ... what's real and what's not real. That's the only time I use it. That's it.

Peter Berg 1:00:47 And do you experience, like, euphoria when you're writing on occasion?

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:00:51 Do you blow your mind?

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 Well, you know these ideas are not... They're coming from fucking the ether.

Peter Berg 1:00:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 They're coming from somewhere. I know that creativity is an individual thing, and it varies. But for me, my best ideas seem to come outta nowhere. It's like, I don't even know if they're my ideas. They're, they're coming from some place, and this is the concept of the muse, right? Like the muse is bestowing upon you these beautiful gifts of creativity. And if-

Peter Berg 1:01:19 Steven Pressfield stuff, right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 Yes, yes. The War of Art, amazing book. I have a stack of them out there I give to people.

Peter Berg 1:01:26 Yeah, I love him. He's a big inspiration to me.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 Yes. He's incredible. And he's just, he's just a brilliant guy.

Peter Berg 1:01:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 But that, that's where, where it's at. It's just like setting this table, showing up, and then trying to pull these things from this other dimension, this, wherever the fuck they're coming from. And then I get these little nuggets, and then the nuggets I transfer to my phone.

Peter Berg 1:01:52 I, I feel bad for people who never get to experience that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:01:56 You know? I, I keep a, a necklace, uh, with, with a dog tag and a quote from a William Blake poem, and he said, with... That, that, uh, has always just helped me quite a bit. And it's, uh, "The only thing pleasing to God is the creation of beautiful and exalted things."

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Ooh.

Peter Berg 1:02:16 And I remember the first time I got to experience the power of writing, and, and something... It was like literally a religious experience. I, I don't know what happened. I kind of blacked out. I lost track of time, and I wrote eight pages, and I looked at it, and I'm like, "I don't know where this came from." And I read it, and I blew my mind, and I felt like I was having almost a religious experience.

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 Wow.

Peter Berg 1:02:42 And, and that quote, when I read it, "The only thing pleasing to God is the creation of beautiful things." The creation, being creative, and being able to, um, please God through creativity, uh, or, or have a religious, a mystical experience, um, that's not drug-induced, um, through your power of your, your creativity-

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:03:05 ... um, I, I think it's the greatest thing in the world. And it kind of saved my life, because if I hadn't found writing and filmmaking, I don't, I don't know what I would've done. I, I wouldn't have been... I, I mean, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 Well, that's why it's for you, because it feels so real and so powerful that without it, you feel like your life would be lost.

Peter Berg 1:03:26 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 1:03:26 Yeah, isn't that amazing? That's an amazing thing to find as a human being, if you can find something that you love so much that you can't imagine life without it, like that you would be lost.

Peter Berg 1:03:36 Um, can I tell you about, um... It's sort of a non-sequitur, but, um, I did wanna, I, I did wanna mention, and it's sort of related to something I love, because I love boxing, and I own a boxing gym in Los Angeles, which was hands down the stupidest thing I ever decided to do in my life.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 (laughs)

Peter Berg 1:03:55 Was, "Oh, it'd be cool to have a boxing gym and manage boxers and prom-" You know, no. Don't, don't. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 (laughs)

Peter Berg 1:04:01 It's awful. I mean, I love the fighters, and I have so much empathy. But, um, one of my fighters, Chris Van Heerden, um, his girlfriend is a girl named Ksenia Carolina, who, who I think I told you a little bit about earlier when we were working out. And, and this is just a, a fucked-up story. She's a 28-year-old American Russian citizen who made a $51 donation to a Ukrainian charity. She went home a year ago to visit her family in Russia, and Putin got her. And she's in prison now for 12 years. And her name's, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 What was the charity?

Peter Berg 1:04:37 The charity was a Ukrainian, uh, uh, uh, charity based in America for Ukraine that she thought was gonna give, um, uh, money to children that had been, you know, hurt by the war in Ukraine. Um, it's all, it's all very researchable. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 And so she got put on a list because she-

Peter Berg 1:04:56 She got... Somehow they... Uh, she's a dual citizen. She's an American citizen and a Russian. She went to visit her parents a year ago in Russia, and on her... Somehow the Russians were able to figure out, like if anyone with any Russian, uh, citizenship, even if it's dual, makes donations to certain charities, they get flagged. So she came in, um, got to her parents' house, was called to the police station the next day, um, came in, and they arrested her. Uh, and, and said, "You donated $51. You're, this is treason." And she's now a, almost a year into a 12-year sentence.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 Holy shit.

Peter Berg 1:05:36 So, um, President Trump has been super cool. Dana White has been, um, helping, um, just trying to get, like... You know, it, it's so... It's such a crazy chess game, right? That-... that, you know, someone like ... look, and, and I hope things go really well between us and Putin, and I think Trump's doing some great things and I'm glad we're talking, but the way they do business is different, and they will grab somebody, you know? And they've done it to, um, to, to, um, Brit, Brittney Griner, and they just released this guy, Fogel, who they'd gotten for smoking weed. If they can get you, um, and hold you and use you as a bargaining chip, they will. And, and we don't do that, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 Right.

Peter Berg 1:06:19 It's one, one of the things that the US doesn't do. But you end up having to make these kinda crazy swaps. It's all about swapping, right? So, they get Ksenia and, and, well, who do we have that, that, that's gonna, you know, get Putin to say, "Yeah, all right, yeah, I'm gonna let her out."

Joe Rogan 1:06:35 Right, release that arms dealer for Brittney Griner.

Peter Berg 1:06:37 Yeah. But, uh, but the people that we have are, like, pretty serious criminals.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 Right. The merchant of death.

Peter Berg 1:06:42 The merchant of death for a basketball player smoking weed.

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 Right.

Peter Berg 1:06:45 It's crazy, but, you know, if you love Brittney Griner, like, or know, like I know Ksenia and my, you know, good friend is engaged to her, and he's in hell. And it's like, we need someone to trade, you know? And, and so, it's not gonna feel right for, you know, people... We're gonna have to trade someone that's done some pretty bad things to get this girl out of prison, and that's the game that these guys are playing. And (clears throat) it's not a game that you ever, ever want to get involved in, and I wish I hadn't, but I have. And, um, you know, Ksenia is a, a beautiful girl and she's in a really bad way, and she doesn't deserve it, so.

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 And it's, it's so true that we don't do that in America, because there's a lot of Russians that fight in the UFC, and they don't even get booed. No one even cares, like-

Peter Berg 1:07:33 They love them.

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 Especially when they're really good. People get excited that they're there.

Peter Berg 1:07:35 Khabib is, is-

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 Sure.

Peter Berg 1:07:37 I mean, we don't, we don't do it. And, and that's, you know, we, we take... Our country, America takes a lot of shit, and I, I don't know, maybe what we deserve and what we don't, but we don't do that. We don't detain 28-year-old-

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 Right.

Peter Berg 1:07:52 ... you know, uh, ballerinas for, um, smoking weed and throw them in prison for 15 years, 20 years.

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 Right.

Peter Berg 1:08:00 We don't take people and say, "Well, you donated $50 to a charity that we're not, um, aligned with. Um, we're throwing you in prison for two years."

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 It's treason. Wow.

Peter Berg 1:08:08 Yeah, so, it's ... Um, but yeah, owning a boxing gym and, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 Well, you were telling me about how when you met Canelo, and Canelo came to your gym to train. I thought that was almost worth owning a boxing gym just to have, isn't it?

Peter Berg 1:08:21 Yeah, well, Canelo, Canelo saved my gym. Uh, Canelo, I sparred with Canelo. Did I ever tell you that?

Joe Rogan 1:08:26 Oh, Jesus.

Peter Berg 1:08:27 On my birthday, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 I hope he was nice to you. (laughs)

Peter Berg 1:08:29 Uh, I was, I was flying, I had landed, uh, in LA from ... and I had a few drinks on the plane. I wasn't drunk, but I wasn't sober. Walked into the gym, Canelo was training for ... he was in camp. I don't remember for which fight. I walked in, I announced it was my birthday, and I wanted rounds. Okay?

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 (laughs)

Peter Berg 1:08:49 And I wanted rounds. And Eddie and Chepo just turned-

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 And you called it on yourself? (laughs)

Peter Berg 1:08:52 Yeah. Oh, I called my own ... "It's my birthday, and I want some fucking rounds."

Joe Rogan 1:08:56 No, no, no, no, no.

Peter Berg 1:08:56 And he just kind of stared at me and, and I ran up, didn't warm up, got my stuff on, Pedro wrapped me up, I put my gloves on, I waited 'til one sp- sparring partner was out. I go, "Me." And to Canelo's credit, he th- only threw one punch, okay? I went two rounds with him, he threw one punch at the end of the second round, but it was a jab. And the way it landed, I've never been hit like this.

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 (laughs)

Peter Berg 1:09:22 He locked my jaw, and my whole neck cracked. He locked my jaw down. It was a perfect jab, and he threw it at maybe, I don't ... 20%.

Joe Rogan 1:09:32 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:09:32 It was just this one perfectly placed jab. Um, but I did spar two rounds with Canelo, uh, and, and I, I can say that honestly.

Joe Rogan 1:09:44 (laughs)

Peter Berg 1:09:44 Uh, he went extremely easy on me. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:09:48 Well, that's very nice of him.

Peter Berg 1:09:49 But yeah, um, I'm, um ... It was cool, 'cause we got, I got to see his whole journey when he came into our gym, and he was just starting, and I think he was fighting a guy named Lopez. And he was just this little redhead skinny kid, and to see his progression, um, you know, he, he's one of, like, the only good stories in boxing, that if you ask me, like, "Name two good boxing stories," I'd be like, "Well, I think Alvarez is a pretty good story. He's, you know, stayed with his trainers, he's a, you know-"

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 1:10:19 "... family man. He's ... you know, carries himself well. He's made a lot of money." Okay, that's one. And two is, there is no two. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:29 Well, Floyd Mayweather's a pretty good story.

Peter Berg 1:10:33 (sighs) Yeah, all right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:33 (laughs)

Peter Berg 1:10:33 All right, all right. I'll give you Floyd Mayweather. You're right, you're right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:36 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:10:36 And I-

Joe Rogan 1:10:36 50 and 0, all his faculties-

Peter Berg 1:10:38 You're right, you're right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:38 ... still making millions doing excavations-

Peter Berg 1:10:39 Dude just bought all the real estate in New York.

Joe Rogan 1:10:41 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:10:41 Okay, you're right. I'll give you Floyd. For some reason, it's always hard for me to put ... And you're right, Floyd is-

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 I got another one.

Peter Berg 1:10:49 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Joe Rogan 1:10:50 Okay.

Peter Berg 1:10:51 Current?

Joe Rogan 1:10:52 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:10:54 Sugar Ray, uh, Sugar Ray Leonard.

Joe Rogan 1:10:55 No, Andre Ward.

Peter Berg 1:10:58 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:58 Andre Ward, Olympic gold medalist, two div- two division world champion, retires undefeated, brilliant analyst, has ... They offer him millions of dollars to go and fight Canelo after he's retired. He says, "I think I can serve boxing more as a commentator."

Peter Berg 1:11:12 I, I will give you Andre Ward, but I would s- I would submit that nobody knows who he is.

Joe Rogan 1:11:17 Oh, every bo- boxing fans know who he is.

Peter Berg 1:11:17 Other, other than, other ... B- boxing fans, of course.

Joe Rogan 1:11:21 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:11:21 But I mean, he never-

Joe Rogan 1:11:23 Right, he didn't achieve superstar status like Sugar Ray Leonard did.

Peter Berg 1:11:24 No, he never, he was ever su- he never, he never crossed over.

Joe Rogan 1:11:27 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:11:27 But, but yes. Uh, and he's a great-

Joe Rogan 1:11:29 And I don't think Sugar Ray Leonard is necessarily the great example either, because he-

Peter Berg 1:11:32 He saved his money, though.

Joe Rogan 1:11:33 He ... But he took a lot of fights that he shouldn't have taken later in his career, like against Terry Norris-

Peter Berg 1:11:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:38 ... and those kind of fights. Like ...

Peter Berg 1:11:41 I, I just put him in, um, I put him in a slight, like, like gr- a, a positive story, just because I've-

Joe Rogan 1:11:49 Right.

Peter Berg 1:11:49 ... I've been to his house.... he's rich. He's still, you know, sharp.

Joe Rogan 1:11:53 Well, that's good.

Peter Berg 1:11:54 He's handsome-

Joe Rogan 1:11:55 Yep.

Peter Berg 1:11:55 ... and he's well-spoken, and it didn't take his brain.

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 Right, he didn't take his brain.

Peter Berg 1:11:58 The stories of, you know, like working class boxing gyms, like Churchill Boxing, my gym in LA-

Joe Rogan 1:12:05 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 1:12:05 ... uh, which I technically don't own anymore, because it just was turning into such a headache. If you could see the day-in, (laughs) day-out trials and tribulations that these fighters go through.

Joe Rogan 1:12:16 Oh, yeah.

Peter Berg 1:12:16 And you know it from UFC. I, I think that boxers have it, like, harder, I think. I can't prove this. But boxing is a, (clears throat) a more dysfunctional state than UFC, mainly because of Dana. And, you know, the fact that Dana's been able to monopolize it, and that there's a system that you're a huge part of that, that makes sense.

Joe Rogan 1:12:38 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 1:12:38 And that there's good people involved at the top, and, and on the broadcasting and all of it. Boxing has none of that.

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 Right.

Peter Berg 1:12:46 And so it's this broken, dysfunctional, um, mess that is just whi- begging for someone, hopefully Dana, to come in and, and organize and clean up.

Joe Rogan 1:12:57 Yeah. They are talking about doing that.

Peter Berg 1:12:59 (sniffs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:00 And, uh, um, Turki Alashikh, who is running Riyad Season, who's done a phenomenal job of putting together these incredible fights, he's basically just said there's a lot of resistance getting these top fighters to fight each other. What's the resistance? They want to maximize their earning potential by staying undefeated and avoiding the really tough challenge. Just give them the money now.

Peter Berg 1:13:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:20 And he's having all these fighters fight these dangerous fights, and it's f- incredible for boxing.

Peter Berg 1:13:26 Do you think that, that there's a way for Dana and UFC to work with him? Is...

Joe Rogan 1:13:30 Yes.

Peter Berg 1:13:31 How-

Joe Rogan 1:13:31 I mean, they're talking about doing that.

Peter Berg 1:13:32 How would that go, do you think? What would it look like?

Joe Rogan 1:13:34 Well, I mean, he obviously has, uh, an excellent, uh, relationship with them, 'cause, you know, Riyad Season helped promote the big event at the Sphere, um, which was an insane venue.

Peter Berg 1:13:47 So cool, right?

Joe Rogan 1:13:47 Have you fucking been to, uh, uh, uh, uh, this experience there?

Peter Berg 1:13:50 Hmm. I haven't been there, but I watched the UFC fight.

Joe Rogan 1:13:52 It's the greatest... Did you... What...

Peter Berg 1:13:54 What...

Joe Rogan 1:13:54 You weren't there.

Peter Berg 1:13:54 I wasn't there.

Joe Rogan 1:13:55 It's the greatest venue in the history of anything.

Peter Berg 1:13:58 But it doesn't overpower the experience?

Joe Rogan 1:14:00 I, I don't know, man. It didn't overpower the fights.

Peter Berg 1:14:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:02 The fights were insane. They were so good. But it was like, the, the arena itself is so spectacular.

Peter Berg 1:14:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:09 I would say go to see any band there you possibly can.

Peter Berg 1:14:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:11 Go to see anyone there. It's so good.

Peter Berg 1:14:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:14 The graphics are so mind-boggling. It's like you're on a drug.

Peter Berg 1:14:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:18 It's like you're having a psychedelic experience. I mean, the moment I walked into it, I was like, "You gotta be fucking kidding me." It's so incred-... I actually, there's a video of me, like the f-... I made a video. I wanted to film the, my very first-

Peter Berg 1:14:31 Of your reaction?

Joe Rogan 1:14:32 ... first reaction the very first time I walked into it. And it's, it blew me away.

Peter Berg 1:14:35 What kind of drug-

Joe Rogan 1:14:36 It's-

Peter Berg 1:14:36 What kind of drug would you compare it to?

Joe Rogan 1:14:37 It's like a... You're in a different dimension. It's like, this is-

Peter Berg 1:14:40 Like a mushroom? Like a DMT? Like a-

Joe Rogan 1:14:42 Well, it's like a... It's, it's so... Oh, this is, this is actually me walking in. Give me some volume.

Narrator 1:14:51 This is my first time ever being inside The Sphere. This is it. Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 1:15:00 (laughs) And this is just-

Narrator 1:15:04 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 1:15:05 ... they're just practicing and doing rehearsals-

Narrator 1:15:09 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 1:15:09 ... of all the graphics packages. This isn't even... The audience is even in yet.

Narrator 1:15:16 This is insane.

Peter Berg 1:15:17 Oh, wow.

Narrator 1:15:18 And, and this is nothing compared to when they had the graphic packages running and, I mean, it was unbelievable. It's, uh, just the amount of money that it cost to put on a show there, though.

Peter Berg 1:15:31 Do, do you think that, like, is it gonna be profitable? Like...

Joe Rogan 1:15:35 Wow.

Peter Berg 1:15:35 Like, like how do you make that money back? Like it's...

Joe Rogan 1:15:39 I don't know.

Peter Berg 1:15:40 How much did it cost?

Joe Rogan 1:15:41 I think the UFC spent something like $25 million over a normal budget for a pro-... For a, for an event.

Peter Berg 1:15:48 For an event.

Joe Rogan 1:15:48 An event.

Peter Berg 1:15:48 But I was just thinking, like, if you pay... I think it was Dolan, it was, uh, the Madison Square Garden folks that, that-

Joe Rogan 1:15:54 Mm-hmm.

Peter Berg 1:15:54 ... put that deal together. And I just, I'm like, well, okay, it holds, how many? 35,000? Uh, 20,000?

Joe Rogan 1:16:01 I don't think it's even that much.

Peter Berg 1:16:02 It's not that big, and I just... Like, they... Someone spent a lot of money on that screen, right?

Joe Rogan 1:16:07 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:16:07 Like, that's a lot of technology.

Joe Rogan 1:16:09 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:16:09 But... So you thought, you thought that Turki, he did a great job. But was Turki involved in the UFC fight at, uh...

Joe Rogan 1:16:17 He was involved in Riyad Season, was a part of the Sphere event. It was co-promoted by Riyad Season.

Peter Berg 1:16:22 So in, in theory, Dana could work with him-

Joe Rogan 1:16:25 Yes.

Peter Berg 1:16:25 ... in some way and start-

Joe Rogan 1:16:26 That's the plan. And they own Ring Magazine now, so the reason why that's significant is the Ring Magazine belt is one of the only belts that has kind of been... It's... There's a bunch of different organizations that are sanctioning bodies. There's the WBO, the WBC, the IBF. There's all these different... It's very fractured, right? But Ring Magazine has always been like... Roy Jones Jr. was the Ring Magazine middleweight champ of the world, a Ring Magazine super middleweight champ of the world. Like, that's the gold standard, is Ring Magazine.

Peter Berg 1:16:59 So, so there would be one belt accor- in this mix.

Joe Rogan 1:17:01 Right.

Peter Berg 1:17:02 See, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:17:02 If they can do that and then overpower everything else with money, and then really put the compelling fights. Like, did you watch this past weekend, Artur Beterbiev and Dmitry Bivol?

Peter Berg 1:17:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:17:13 What a fucking-

Peter Berg 1:17:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:17:15 ... fight.

Peter Berg 1:17:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:17:16 Probably the greatest light heavyweight fight of all time.

Peter Berg 1:17:19 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:17:19 Incredible.

Peter Berg 1:17:19 Biv- Bivol, Bivol trains in our gym, by the way.

Joe Rogan 1:17:21 Does he really?

Peter Berg 1:17:22 Churchill Boxing.

Joe Rogan 1:17:23 Wow.

Peter Berg 1:17:23 The hardest punch I've ever seen anyone throw in my life was in our gym. David Benavidez was sparring Bivol.

Joe Rogan 1:17:31 Whoa.

Peter Berg 1:17:31 And Bivol, Bivol, and... Uh, Dave Benavidez is a great fighter, but Bivol caught him, uh, and, and dropped him with the jab.

Joe Rogan 1:17:40 Whoa.

Peter Berg 1:17:40 In, in sparring.

Joe Rogan 1:17:41 Whoa.

Peter Berg 1:17:42 ... inspiring. Bivol, uh, incredible fighter.

Joe Rogan 1:17:44 Amazing.

Peter Berg 1:17:45 He's-

Joe Rogan 1:17:45 So is Benavidez, by the way.

Peter Berg 1:17:45 ... he's an example. So, they both are. Those are actually two guys that I feel like could be, could do it right. Um, but-

Joe Rogan 1:17:51 Yeah.

Peter Berg 1:17:51 ... just having so much trouble getting the recognition that they deserve. I mean, Bivol-

Joe Rogan 1:17:55 Well, Benavidez has been chasing Canelo forever.

Peter Berg 1:17:57 He won't fight him.

Joe Rogan 1:17:58 Yeah, for a good reason.

Peter Berg 1:18:00 Won't fight him. Won't f-

Joe Rogan 1:18:00 That's a hard fight. That's a hard fight. And you want that fight?

Peter Berg 1:18:03 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:18:04 You gotta, you gotta