Joe Rogan Experience #2287 - Josh Dubin & J.D. Tomlinson

The Ohio Four convictions hinged almost entirely on testimony from informant William Avery Jr., whose story contradicted physical evidence, evolved under pressure, and was later recanted multiple times – yet still sent four men away for decades.

Even after the FBI documented Avery Jr.’s recantation and a federal court called Cleveland’s innocence claim “credible,” local prosecutors and judges resisted hearings or new trials, and those who push for exonerations often face institutional retaliation.

Tomlinson describes being charged with three felonies just before an election by a sheriff’s office that had hired his political rivals, while key exculpatory texts were withheld until after the vote – illustrating how prosecutions can be weaponized as “lawfare.”

Tomlinson argues that having defended many clients, including innocent ones, made him more open to seeing wrongful convictions and publicly apologizing—something Innocence Project leaders say almost never happens from sitting prosecutors.

Dubin emphasizes that four Black, out‑of‑town drug dealers in a mostly white area became convenient suspects in a brutal murder, and that America’s caste‑like racial history and segregated poverty create predictable patterns in whom the system fails.