Joe Rogan Experience #2313 - Jillian Michaels

1. 0:00 – 2:11

   Parents, trust in institutions, and the “expert” bias

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. JMJillian Michaels0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Yes. Good to see you.

   4. JMJillian Michaels0:14

      You, too.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      We were just talking about boomers-

   6. JMJillian Michaels0:17

      Yeah. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      ... about parents, parents that won't, they, they don't wanna believe anything other than what they're getting from the news.

   8. JMJillian Michaels0:24

      It's been a challenge. My dad is an absolute lost cause.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:27

      (laughs)

   10. JMJillian Michaels0:27

       My mom is now open to the conversation, and she'll send me a bunch of different articles, and then she'll allow me to disseminate from my perspective, but it, it's been, it's been a rough ride.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Yeah. I've got them on peptides now, which is nice.

   12. JMJillian Michaels0:45

       Same.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       And I've got my, my stepdad on, uh, testosterone replacement, which is nice, and he's seeing benefits of those things. So it's like they're slowly starting to incorporate some of these things. But their whole life, they've been told that the doctor knows everything-

   14. JMJillian Michaels0:59

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       ... and that the news is always correct, and anything contrary to the news is bullshit, and...

   16. JMJillian Michaels1:04

       I, but arguably, when our parents were our age, it was reliable.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       I don't think so.

   18. JMJillian Michaels1:12

       No?

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       No, I think it's always been compromised. I just think there was no alternatives.

   20. JMJillian Michaels1:16

       That's interesting.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Yeah, that's what I think.

   22. JMJillian Michaels1:18

       My mom is a psychoanalyst, PhD. This is a very educated-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       Mm.

   24. JMJillian Michaels1:23

       ... thoughtful woman. And-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Sometimes that's the worst.

   26. JMJillian Michaels1:26

       Nope, nope. She's-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       (laughs)

   28. JMJillian Michaels1:27

       I, I would argue against in this case. I do appreciate people who see flaws in psychoanalysis. But I've learned a huge amount from my mom in this, in this area, and she also, um, she majored in journalism before changing careers to psychoanalysis. And so for her to even wrap her head around the fact that journalism can be compromised is almost inconceivable.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       Right. I, I, I would, I didn't mean psychoanalysis is bad. What I meant is that a lot of times educated people defer to other-

   30. JMJillian Michaels1:57

       Oh.
2. 2:11 – 4:02

   COVID narrative whiplash: lab leak, media walk-backs, and no accountability

   1. JMJillian Michaels2:11

      Yeah. That's why, you know, we were talking about Fauci on the way in, (clears throat) and then both of my parents could arguably canonize the guy, you know? Or, or, or now, I think I've broken through with my mom, but it has taken me since, since your episode with Bret Weinstein in March of 2020, I have been working on it.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:29

      Ugh. (laughs)

   3. JMJillian Michaels2:30

      We're getting there though. We're there. Like I, I, we're-

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:33

      Isn't that crazy?

   5. JMJillian Michaels2:33

      ... we are there. It's been five years.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:35

      Isn't that crazy that was five years ago?

   7. JMJillian Michaels2:37

      I, it was like yesterday. I'll never forget it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      Five years ago. And I remember when that episode came out, people were freaking out, like, "What are you doing? What is Bret doing? This is bullshit. You're, you're gonna get us all killed."

   9. JMJillian Michaels2:47

      It made perfect sense to me.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       Well, he was right, clearly. And yet still no apologies, no-

   11. JMJillian Michaels2:53

       Nope.

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:53

       ... corrections, except the government website. The COVID-19 website is now up, and this has to be because of Bobby Kennedy.

   13. JMJillian Michaels3:00

       I, uh, hey, I mean, the New York Times was like, "Oh, it looks, looks like-

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:04

       Yeah.

   15. JMJillian Michaels3:04

       ... this came from a lab." It's like, you, really? (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       Well, the best part about it was they're like-

   17. JMJillian Michaels3:08

       How'd you figure that out?

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:08

       ... "We were misled." Yeah, you were misled by you, you fuckers.

   19. JMJillian Michaels3:11

       I know.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:12

       You did it.

   21. JMJillian Michaels3:13

       Isn't that-

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:13

       You did it.

   23. JMJillian Michaels3:13

       It's disgusting, and there are zero apologies.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       No.

   25. JMJillian Michaels3:17

       Zero course corrections. And they unveil this information as though they are the purveyors of truth.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:23

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JMJillian Michaels3:24

       Guys! We've got a headline.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       Yeah. You're a little late.

   29. JMJillian Michaels3:26

       This came from a lab! (whistles)

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:27

       You're a half a decade late.
3. 4:02 – 6:29

   Jillian’s vaccine-podcast regret and the emergency-use ‘blind spot’

   1. JMJillian Michaels4:02

      I actually did that. I did not know any better, and I was pitched a vaccine scientist, and I thought like, "Oh, this is great. Yeah, come on, come on the show." I didn't know the vaccine was gene therapy. I had no idea. So I knew it came from a lab. That made perfect sense to me, and I was like, "Oh, well, this is very clear. It's not, you know, from a wet market." But I was, my, someone reached out to a producer of mine and said, you know, "We've got this person who's a scientist, who worked on the vaccine, that wants to educate people." And I thought I was doing this major public service. I have had to apologize for that podcast, and I've left it up.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:42

      What was the, uh, the scientist?

   3. JMJillian Michaels4:43

      I cannot, Joe, I cannot remember her name. She was actually young, and the reason I remember that she was in her 30s is because she told me, "Oh, this tech has been around for 30 years." And I thought, "But you're only, you're like 35." (laughs) I was like, and they, "No, no, we've been, we've been evolving this technology for 30 years, and you see all of these trials for safety. It's just p- bureaucracy."

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:06

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JMJillian Michaels5:07

      I didn't understand what it meant to push something through that emergency use loophole at the time.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:12

      Yeah.

   7. JMJillian Michaels5:13

      I didn't understand the difference of, oh, this is a dead pathogen, and this is a live pathogen, and we're worried about adjuvants, but this here, this is gene therapy. I didn't even begin to comprehend what that was, what it meant, or the fact that we would fuck around with something that was experimental. And the scariest part is I had been talking with a woman named Brianne Dresen, who was injured during the AstraZeneca COVID-19 trials, and the NIH was studying all of the people that had been injured during the vaccine trials as they rolled out-

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:49

      Yeah.

   9. JMJillian Michaels5:49

      ... the vaccine with no concerns and lied about every component from it stays in the shoulder, it's out of the body in 24 hours, until you find out, no, it's coated in lipid nanoparticles, and it can cross the blood-brain barrier. Oops. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:02

       Now they're finding out that people can still produce spike protein because of the injections for over 700 days.

   11. JMJillian Michaels6:08

       And you can shed supposedly.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:09

       Yeah. You give it to your partner.

   13. JMJillian Michaels6:10

       It's insanity.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:11

       Yeah. Crazy. Crazy.

   15. JMJillian Michaels6:12

       And now there, uh, I mean, I'm certainly not-... an export in MRNA tech, but now we're fast-tracking other vaccines that utilize this same technology, and I know for one, I don't think I'll take an MRNA vaccine, ever. It scares the crap out of me.

4. 6:29 – 9:59

   mRNA shot safety debate: aspiration, myocarditis, and spike persistence claims

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:29

      Well, you've heard Bret Weinstein talk about the flaws in just the technology itself, and that, you know, the fact that when it gets into your body, if it gets, especially... You know, the thing is, nobody aspirated, right? They didn't inject people and pull back to make sure they're not on a blood vessel. They just plunged it, including when they l-... They did it live with Biden on television-

   2. JMJillian Michaels6:51

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:51

      ... which I don't think the whole vaccine.

   4. JMJillian Michaels6:53

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:54

      I said to this day, people are like, "Yo, what are you? A conspiracy theorist?" Yeah. Um, I think, yeah, I'm, I'm telling you right now, I think it's a conspiracy. I don't think they would take a chance in injecting a fucking 80-year-old man when you know that you have to, like, stay there at the clinic for 20 minutes in case you drop dead.

   6. JMJillian Michaels7:10

      Dependent on someone.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:11

      Yeah.

   8. JMJillian Michaels7:11

      You know, my wife's friend, um, her friend's son actually had the COVID vaccine and the flu vaccine on the same day.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:20

      Oi.

   10. JMJillian Michaels7:21

       He did supposedly stay for 15 minutes, got in the car, must have passed out or had a seizure, hit a tree, and died.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:29

       Jesus Christ.

   12. JMJillian Michaels7:29

       Had a crazy reaction to it. I know... I, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to promote, you know, this anti-vax position, but it-

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:37

       But that's not a vaccine.

   14. JMJillian Michaels7:38

       Yes, it's... Exactly.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:39

       You know, just calling it a vaccine is fucking crazy.

   16. JMJillian Michaels7:40

       That's exactly it. It's gene therapy.

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:41

       It was a totally experimental gene therapy. And what, what Bret was saying about it is if you don't aspirate, you're shooting it right into a blood vessel. If you're shooting it right into a blood vessel, it could go to all sorts of areas of the body where the body's gonna attack it like it's a disease-

   18. JMJillian Michaels7:58

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:58

       ... particularly the heart. And it's like-

   20. JMJillian Michaels8:00

       (exhales)

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:00

       ... this is why you get myocarditis, 'cause the heart doesn't heal, which is why you don't get heart cancer. Your, your heart just scars over. So, people have these inflamed, enlarged hearts and then diminished cardiovascular function and... And he was talking about this way earlier than anybody else.

   22. JMJillian Michaels8:16

       I remember.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:16

       And they were, "Blood on his hands. He's killing grandmas," and, "The vaccine saved millions of lives."

   24. JMJillian Michaels8:21

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:21

       People say that all the time. They've saved millions of lives. Like, how?

   26. JMJillian Michaels8:24

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:24

       If people still got COVID, not only that they got more COVID than people that didn't get vaccinated.

   28. JMJillian Michaels8:30

       I am still having this, this exact debate actually with, with my mom, who's like, "But, honey, it saved mlll-" And you know what's crazy?

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:37

       (laughs)

   30. JMJillian Michaels8:38

       "Have you actually tried to Google that information? Because you can make a case for that based on what will come up on Google." And she's like, "But look right here. It says it saved millions of lives." And I go-
5. 9:59 – 21:16

   Obesity and COVID severity: denial, politics, and ‘healthy at any size’ backlash

   1. JMJillian Michaels9:59

      I remember when Bill Maher was talking about how it was people who... There was a study that came out of the CDC, and forgive me because I don't remember the exact percentage, but it was upwards of 80% of the people who died or had severe cases of COVID were obese or overweight, and this is when, you know, you can be healthy at any size. That psyop was in-

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:22

      Ugh.

   3. JMJillian Michaels10:22

      ... full effect.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:23

      That must have drove you crazy.

   5. JMJillian Michaels10:25

      Oh, I was... I-

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:26

      (laughs)

   7. JMJillian Michaels10:26

      ... it ju-... I, I, I was completely unraveling. People ask me, like, "What happened?" You were a good liberal.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:33

      (laughs)

   9. JMJillian Michaels10:35

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:35

       You're still a good liberal.

   11. JMJillian Michaels10:36

       I still am a good liberal. I'm, I'm-

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:36

       If you go back to the old definition.

   13. JMJillian Michaels10:38

       I haven't changed.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:39

       Yeah, nor have I.

   15. JMJillian Michaels10:40

       I go issue by issue with my friends.

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:42

       Yeah.

   17. JMJillian Michaels10:43

       And I, I'm like, "You show me where I've shifted my position on any issue outside of Trump." I used to think he was Hitlerian and he was gonna round up all the gays and we were all fucked. None of that happened. I thought Russia, Russia, Russia. I thought that was real. So, as new evidence came to light and I managed to survive his first term intact along with, you know, my gay relationships-

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:08

       (laughs)

   19. JMJillian Michaels11:08

       ... I somehow (laughs) started to feel that maybe a lot of that was bullshit propaganda. But outside of that, not one of my positions has changed, not one. And I find that arguably the right is more welcoming and more tolerant now. I can sit down and have a conversation with Matt Walsh and debate gay marriage in a civil fashion and I ended up... Again, like, I, I bring up Bill because I, I work with Bill in some capacity on his podcast network and I was having to defend him on Piers Morgan because he was sitting down with Trump and they called him a bigot and a racist and anti-science because he was going to sit with Trump. I'm like, "Well, where's the outrage when he sits down with Newsom? I hate that guy way more." And I don't-

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:53

       Piers Morgan was saying this or the guests?

   21. JMJillian Michaels11:54

       Not Piers.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:55

       Yeah, the guests, uh-

   23. JMJillian Michaels11:55

       Not Piers. Piers is awesome. It's the guests.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:57

       Piers' show is Maury Povich 2.0. It's a better version of Maury Povich.

   25. JMJillian Michaels12:01

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:01

       (laughs)

   27. JMJillian Michaels12:01

       I kind of love it, though, and I love when I get to do it because you're allowed to act unhinged. You still have to make your points-

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:07

       Yeah.

   29. JMJillian Michaels12:08

       ... but it is a bit... it is theatrical, but sometimes I think when you are able to be so theatrical, it goes viral, and the point that you're trying to make is arguably seen by more, unless it's a platform, of course, like yours, but-

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:22

       Yeah, he does a good job of that. I just don't think it's a good way to discuss ideas.
6. 21:16 – 25:24

   Big Food’s ‘intuitive eating’ and the psychology of food addiction

   1. JMJillian Michaels21:16

      ... the, the PSYOP component of healthy at any size.

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:19

      Yes, yes.

   3. JMJillian Michaels21:19

      This is a big food narrative. This has been proven. Even the, the friggin', uh-

   4. JRJoe Rogan21:24

      Explain big food narrative, what you mean by that.

   5. JMJillian Michaels21:26

      Um, okay. So big food, the- put, put simply, hired a bunch of registered dieticians to co-opt this concept of intuitive eating and-

   6. JRJoe Rogan21:37

      (laughs)

   7. JMJillian Michaels21:38

      ... I'm- I'm- I'm- I'm l- I'm dead-ass serious.

   8. JRJoe Rogan21:40

      Yeah.

   9. JMJillian Michaels21:41

      With hashtags like derail the shame, and they paid them.

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:45

       Mm, yeah.

   11. JMJillian Michaels21:45

       And they put out all of these posts and went to all of these conventions and promoted the narrative that you can be healthy at any size. And it's just a flat-out lie. It is a flat-Earther conversation. It is pseudoscience at its best. There's- there's no truth behind that. There is a robust amount of data that show us being obese (laughs) is associated with, like, 170 comorbidities. This is a non-factor. It's- it's been debunked. We know this for a fact. So, when that happens, what they're doing is essentially placating someone who already feels... Now, I can at- I can attack what's going on, or address rather, what's going on with an individual who is that size, and it is largely psychological once you are past the point of dad bod. You know what I mean? Like, "Oh, I worked three jobs. Life beat me down. I- I- it's a food desert and I'm 40 pounds overweight and I've let myself go." This is a different animal. When you're dealing with somebody who is 50-plus pounds overweight, there is a psychological component. So, the first thing we need to do is make them aware that there is a problem, without question. But you can do it without shame. Giving them facts of, "Listen, this is unhealthy."

   12. JRJoe Rogan23:06

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JMJillian Michaels23:06

       "And because you are such a valuable individual, I want you to understand this. Because only from a place of feeling truly worthy are you able to facilitate a change. You don't work out because you hate your body. You work out because you love it." So, it doesn't need to be as shaming. There's no shame there, to be honest, Joe. I know- I know that people claim there is, 'cause you pointed out this vulnerability or this flaw in the person, but we all have flaws and vulnerabilities. People who are overweight simply wear them.

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:41

       Yeah.

   15. JMJillian Michaels23:41

       So it's easier to judge, right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:43

       Yeah.

   17. JMJillian Michaels23:43

       So, by educating them first, and then I- without question, I like to give people, or when I, when I was able to do the work hands-on, that rock bottom moment, because they are overweight because it is providing them with something extraordinarily significant. Now, I can give you examples should you need them, but I promise you that at one time or another, people turn to addictions, in this case food, because it means their psychological survival. So, put simply, the most obvious example would be a person who was incested, molested, raped-

   18. JRJoe Rogan24:18

       Right.

   19. JMJillian Michaels24:18

       ... puts on weight to desexualize. That's just one example of many, but it's easy to illustrate the point. Um, so whatever this thing is providing them is the part that's so hard to let go of.

   20. JRJoe Rogan24:29

       Yeah.

   21. JMJillian Michaels24:29

       'Cause unconsciously, it's terrifying. And you gotta first show them, "This is why we need to change." And then you gotta give them that path towards change and you gotta make it harder. You gotta make them feel the pain. Could be physically, it could be psychologically, but it doesn't have to be shameful, of the way they've been living so that the work and the sacrifice associated with change is less painful than continuing...... the negative, um, and destructive habits.

   22. JRJoe Rogan24:59

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JMJillian Michaels24:59

       You don't have to shame them. I, I know, I know the message seems like it is, but it really, it really isn't.

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:05

       Well, the whole term fat shaming is pretty recent, right?

   25. JMJillian Michaels25:08

       Yes, very.

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:09

       And-

   27. JMJillian Michaels25:09

       Uh, let's get right back to where, when I was just-

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:11

       Yeah.

   29. JMJillian Michaels25:11

       ... you asked me what I lost. So-

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:13

       Intuitive eating is a fascinating phrase, and the, the idea that this is by the same people that used to be in charge of tobacco.
7. 25:24 – 30:33

   Engineered food environments: seed oils, school meals, and hospital food

   1. JRJoe Rogan25:24

      These are, R.J. Reynolds and these tobacco companies bought all these fast food, processed food companies, and they used the same tactics that they used with that to push qu- terrible foods on people.

   2. JMJillian Michaels25:36

      Well, they literally have.

   3. JRJoe Rogan25:38

      Yeah.

   4. JMJillian Michaels25:38

      A team of multi-disciplinary scientists that work around the clock to figure out how to get people to not eat just one, and then (laughs) put it in a commercial. (laughs) It's like literally in broad daylight.

   5. JRJoe Rogan25:51

      Yeah.

   6. JMJillian Michaels25:51

      Look what we're doing to people. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan25:52

      Bet you can't eat just one.

   8. JMJillian Michaels25:53

      Just one.

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:53

      Yeah.

   10. JMJillian Michaels25:54

       You know? But the, what they're doing is they are exploiting somebody's psychology and they're hijacking their biology with this food.

   11. JRJoe Rogan26:03

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JMJillian Michaels26:03

       Without question. And this is why you have seen rates of obesity skyrocket from, what, the 70s, when it was like 5% of the adult population was overweight or obese, to 74%.

   13. JRJoe Rogan26:17

       Yeah.

   14. JMJillian Michaels26:17

       I mean, like, we're all, "It's a quantum leap in genetics." That's, that's a, a big pharma psy-op of like, "No, no, no, no. This is all genetic. You're, you're genetic, genetically obese."

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:27

       Yeah.

   16. JMJillian Michaels26:28

       Well, where was the, what happened? There's a, I've never seen such a quantum leap in genetics. How come we weren't genetically obese in the 70s? Like what was that tipping point, if you will (laughs) -

   17. JRJoe Rogan26:38

       Right.

   18. JMJillian Michaels26:38

       ... that created the cascade of obesity over the last five decades? Of course it's exactly what you're talking about.

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:44

       Yeah, it's the ingredients in food. It's really simple.

   20. JMJillian Michaels26:47

       A- that, and also how they engineer the environment, and you're surrounded by it. You can't escape it. Remember the days when you weren't allowed to have food at a bookstore? And now every friggin' bookstore has a café-

   21. JRJoe Rogan27:00

       And a Starbucks.

   22. JMJillian Michaels27:00

       Yeah. With a-

   23. JRJoe Rogan27:01

       With cookies in it.

   24. JMJillian Michaels27:01

       ... 600 calorie dr- exact-

   25. JRJoe Rogan27:03

       Yeah.

   26. JMJillian Michaels27:03

       You are surrounded. There is nowhere you can go right now where food is not omnipresent, in particular this crappy food. And they generally do it through government contracts and subsidies, so it's at your schools, your hospitals. Like, anywhere you go, you will find this garbage food. So, even if you have that moment of willpower, which is arguably this fleeting moment of bravado, if you're constantly surrounded by it, you will give in. Managing your, your environment is a large part of helping someone be successful. It's, it's a Band-Aid, right, if you're, you're dealing with sexual abuse, for example. But controlling the environment is definitely a component in helping them. You can't control the environment.

   27. JRJoe Rogan27:44

       Right.

   28. JMJillian Michaels27:45

       You can't control the narrative, you can't control what's in the food, and it's all by design. It's not just the crap in the food. It's how they control the narrative around it and how they engineer the environment and how they systematically shut down the people that point it out as fat shamers, for example, or racists.

   29. JRJoe Rogan28:03

       Yeah.

   30. JMJillian Michaels28:03

       It's another big one.
8. 30:33 – 34:12

   Early-onset cancer anxiety: trends, possible drivers, and COVID-era debate

   1. JMJillian Michaels30:33

      ... at, when she was like nine and has followed Bhad Bhabie. Bhad Bhabie now has cancer.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:38

      What?

   3. JMJillian Michaels30:38

      I, I believe so. And-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:40

      For real?

   5. JMJillian Michaels30:41

      According to my daughter-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:43

      Isn't she like 20?

   7. JMJillian Michaels30:43

      Ye- exactly the point though. That's exactly the point. And so now I can say to my kids, "This isn't just mom's generation." Which, how come ... Here's something else to look at. My mom is 76.None of the public figures in her generation got cancer. You didn't see Susan Sarandon or Sigourney Weaver or Meryl Streep. None of them got cancer. But in my generation, it's like Maria Menounos, Christina Applegate, something's going on with the An- Angelina Jolie, Kate Middleton. In my generation, the canary is dead in the coal mine. It's not even a question of the negative impact. If we're not looking at statistics, if we're just looking from an observational perspective, it's in the news every single day someone's dealing with cancer. Olivia Munn. Now, you're seeing 20-year-olds deal with this, and I was able to point to that to my daughter and say, "This is the shit that I am talking about. She's five years older than you."

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:37

      What does that lady have? Does it say? Yeah. She's claimed that she's got a form of leukemia, I believe. But people, yeah-

   9. JMJillian Michaels31:46

      They debate, they doubt her.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:48

       Yeah, for sure they doubt her. I don't know- Well, she's a little bit kooky, right? Sure. I don't know.

   11. JMJillian Michaels31:52

       There's still, you still can't point to the fact, even if it's not Bhad Bhabie, who, who may be lying, I'm, I'm not sure.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:58

       Watch how you're using that name, Bhad Bhabie. (laughs)

   13. JMJillian Michaels31:59

       Is it Bhad Bhabie? Bhad... What the... I said Bhad Bhabie-

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:02

       So it's the new-

   15. JMJillian Michaels32:02

       ... the other day and my kids are like, "No, that's the rapper."

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:05

       ... Bhabie. She says, uh, she insists that she'd been cleared for surgery and she has no regrets about her cosmetic tweaks. What does a cosmetic tweak have to do with leukemia?

   17. JMJillian Michaels32:12

       I don't know.

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:13

       Uh, I think people are just .......................... They're not gonna perform plastic surgery on a cancer patient. What? She's getting plastic surgery? Is it... What is this article about? Go, go back up. The background.

   19. JMJillian Michaels32:20

       Oh, look at the chronic myeloid leukemia piece-

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:23

       Go back.

   21. JMJillian Michaels32:23

       ... 'cause that's the part I know about.

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:25

       It's in the background, sorry. She, oh, breaks silence on claims she lied about having cancer after being slammed for vaping.

   23. JMJillian Michaels32:30

       Oh, God. Did she lie about it?

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:31

       The right... That's what I was just showing you, that's why-

   25. JMJillian Michaels32:33

       Oh, no.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:34

       No, no, no. Go back up. I don't know if this is true.

   27. JMJillian Michaels32:34

       'Cause I thought she had like a wig-

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:36

       Go back up, please.

   29. JMJillian Michaels32:36

       ... and my daughter says she lost her hair.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:37

       I'm trying. 21, it says currently battling chronic m- how do you say that? Myeloid, myeloid leukemia.
9. 34:12 – 38:29

   Glyphosate, runoff, and ecological damage: farms, waterways, and dead zones

   1. JRJoe Rogan34:12

      For sure, there's pesticides and herbicides. That's a, a major factor. You know, when you look at the fact that 90+ percent of people have Roundup in their blood, that's crazy.

   2. JMJillian Michaels34:23

      You know that stuff is linked to chemical warfare from Vietnam? It has a historical connection to Agent Orange.

   3. JRJoe Rogan34:30

      Really?

   4. JMJillian Michaels34:30

      Yeah. Google it. Jamie, check that. But yeah, 'cause I wrote about it in a book.

   5. JRJoe Rogan34:34

      Ugh.

   6. JMJillian Michaels34:34

      I know. That should alarm you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan34:36

      Glyphosate is everywhere. It's so spooky. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. We've talked about digital threats and protecting your personal information on the show before, but it's just as important that you take care of yourself and your loved ones in the real world too, and that's where SimpliSafe comes in for your home security system. They use a mix of AI technology and real live breathing people to keep you safe. Like if some weirdo's loitering around your property, AI-powered cameras can help detect it and agents can act quickly to deter them or contact the police. But SimpliSafe is there for more than just the bad stuff. Their cameras also capture the moments you might want to save, like the first time your daughter rides her bike down the driveway or your kid is opening their acceptance letter from college on the front porch. Keep your family safe so you can experience moments like that more often. Try out SimpliSafe. They've got a 60-day satisfaction guarantee or your money back. Plus you can get 50% off your new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring and your first month free. Just go to simplisafe.com/rogan. That's simplisafe.com/rogan for 50% off and your first month free. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. ... and other countries won't even allow it to use.

   8. JMJillian Michaels35:49

      Nope.

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:49

      And we spray it on everything. Not only that, we have, like, corn that's genetically engineered to be immune to glyphosate so they can just spray the shit out of it. And then you eat that corn and you're getting glyphosate residue. You're just getting it, and it's in your blood.

   10. JMJillian Michaels36:02

       It's in, it's in everything.

   11. JRJoe Rogan36:03

       It's in everything.

   12. JMJillian Michaels36:04

       Runoffs into the water.

   13. JRJoe Rogan36:05

       It's in rice, it's in wheat.

   14. JMJillian Michaels36:06

       It's... Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan36:07

       It's in the runoff-

   16. JMJillian Michaels36:08

       Well, especially...

   17. JRJoe Rogan36:09

       ... so it gets in the fish. You know, most freshwater fish have toxic levels of lead and, or heavy metals in them. Like most, most freshwater fish-

   18. JMJillian Michaels36:20

       I didn't know that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan36:20

       ... you really probably shouldn't be eating.

   20. JMJillian Michaels36:22

       I knew big predatory fish.

   21. JRJoe Rogan36:23

       Yes, that's in the ocean, but that's heavy metals-

   22. JMJillian Michaels36:26

       I did not know that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan36:26

       ... from the ocean, which is also from us. But th- that's mercury. But there's toxic levels of heavy metals and pollutants and, uh, you know, forever chemicals that are in freshwater fish. 'Cause all that shit that's in the ground gets into lakes.

   24. JMJillian Michaels36:42

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan36:43

       All that shit that, you know, all the runoff, all that stuff gets into streams, gets into creeks, gets into rivers. You know, uh, we watched a video, uh, when we had, um, uh, Will Harris from White Oak Pastures on the podcast, and he showed the difference between his regenerative farm that doesn't use any pesticides or herbicides and his neighbor's farm. And there's a, literally a dividing line in the river where you can see the runoff from his neighbor's farm turns the entire river brown. And it's legal. It's legal to pollute.

   26. JMJillian Michaels37:15

       Of course.

   27. JRJoe Rogan37:16

       ... because it's industrial farming.

   28. JMJillian Michaels37:18

       Exactly. That-

   29. JRJoe Rogan37:19

       But it's crazy. It's just, like, all that industrial fertilizer, herbicides, and pesticides are running off, because the topsoil's dead. So all that stuff is running off as soon as it rains, and it runs right into the river. And you can see a dividing line. There's, like, clear water on one side and this disgusting brown, dirty water on the right side.

   30. JMJillian Michaels37:41

       Have you seen where it runs from the river into the ocean-
10. 38:29 – 42:43

    California fires and governance failures: toxins, mitigation, and political incentives

    1. JMJillian Michaels38:29

       Considering all of the crap from the fires. That's a great irony.

    2. JRJoe Rogan38:35

       Oh, yeah.

    3. JMJillian Michaels38:35

       That's my favorite. "Oh, we're, we're not doing any forestry mitigation because of the environment." And yet these fires have rolled back all of those protections by something like 20 years.

    4. JRJoe Rogan38:47

       Yeah.

    5. JMJillian Michaels38:47

       'Cause it just-

    6. JRJoe Rogan38:48

       Well, that ground's ruined forever.

    7. JMJillian Michaels38:49

       Destroyed. And then-

    8. JRJoe Rogan38:50

       Yeah.

    9. JMJillian Michaels38:50

       ... pours into the ocean.

    10. JRJoe Rogan38:51

        Twice the size of Manhattan, ruined ground. All those people that had electric cars, those cars, those batteries, all that shit-

    11. JMJillian Michaels39:00

        Yep.

    12. JRJoe Rogan39:00

        ... is all ... No, the plastics and the fiberglass and carbon fiber, all that stuff, the tires, all that stuff is now in the soil. And you're gonna ... If you ... Good luck having a garden.

    13. JMJillian Michaels39:10

        Uh, I know.

    14. JRJoe Rogan39:10

        Good luck. You wanna try to grow plants? Good luck.

    15. JMJillian Michaels39:14

        (sighs) I was talking to, um ... I don't know if you've ever seen this gentleman, he's really great. He wrote a book, uh, called Eat To Beat Disease, named Dr. William Li. And he called me after the fire, because I was out there visiting my mom. And he's like, "Where are you? Are you in California?" And I was like, "I am at the moment. In fact, I'm right here by Palisades." And he said, "Jill, do you remember 9/11 dust? That whole thing with all the ..." I was like, "Of course I remember." Sent me a bunch of articles. And he's like, "You gotta get out of there. Get your mom out of there." He's like, "It gets in your kids' clothes when they're, they're on their way to school."

    16. JRJoe Rogan39:47

        Ugh.

    17. JMJillian Michaels39:47

        It ... People ... He goes, "We're gonna be talking about this 10 years from now, the result of the toxins in this fire and how they've affected people's health."

    18. JRJoe Rogan39:55

        No doubt. No doubt.

    19. JMJillian Michaels39:57

        It's crazy. And it happens-

    20. JRJoe Rogan39:58

        It's crazy.

    21. JMJillian Michaels39:58

        ... twice a year.

    22. JRJoe Rogan39:59

        Yeah.

    23. JMJillian Michaels39:59

        At least.

    24. JRJoe Rogan40:00

        Oh, I was evacuated three times when I lived in LA.

    25. JMJillian Michaels40:03

        I lo- ... Well, in fact, I lost two homes. One that I owned in 2018 and one that I sold in '21 just actually burnt.

    26. JRJoe Rogan40:12

        Oof.

    27. JMJillian Michaels40:12

        It's nuts.

    28. JRJoe Rogan40:13

        It's crazy.

    29. JMJillian Michaels40:14

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan40:14

        And nothing's ... I mean, the ... What they did during the fire was just so insane.
11. 42:43 – 53:07

    Progressivism vs ‘leftism’: trans issues, minors, and institutional pressures

    1. JRJoe Rogan42:43

       Well, 'cause it's a cult. It really is. Like, leftism, not being an actual progressive. Like, an actual progressive is a person who's kind, who wants people to just exist and be yourself and live amongst us.

    2. JMJillian Michaels42:57

       (laughs)

    3. JRJoe Rogan42:57

       And we should all have social safety net and laws that, like, are k- are kind and compassionate. And we should look at the fact that we are an incredible first world nation and we should, like, roll out the red carpet to all the, all the people that live here, and try to make it a better place for everybody. That's real progressivism. And then it morphed into this, like, let perverts get into the women's room. Let men compete in women's sports. Like, all, like ... And ignore the fact that some people are fucking psychotic-... and give them a blank check, as long as they just say they're a woman. Like, "Oh, you're a woman. Go ahead. Carte blanche, get in." And now, not only that, but treat them better than you treat women themselves, 'cause they're-

    4. JMJillian Michaels43:36

       Yes.

    5. JRJoe Rogan43:36

       ... they're actually more oppressed than women.

    6. JMJillian Michaels43:38

       Isn't that wild?

    7. JRJoe Rogan43:38

       So, that's the oppression hierarchy.

    8. JMJillian Michaels43:41

       Right.

    9. JRJoe Rogan43:41

       So, they get the gold medal in the Oppression Olympics. It's like-

    10. JMJillian Michaels43:44

        It's like, I-

    11. JRJoe Rogan43:44

        ... it's bananas.

    12. JMJillian Michaels43:45

        It is bananas. It really is. I can't... That's the stuff where you look and you say, "I was never for any of this."

    13. JRJoe Rogan43:53

        Yeah.

    14. JMJillian Michaels43:54

        If- if you... I'm a libertarian, I'm for personal freedoms, of course. If you wanna change your gender as an adult, that's absolutely up for, up to you, and I- I would fight for your right to do that and live with dignity. But when your personal choices impact the rights and the freedoms of others, this is a far more nuanced (laughs) conversation.

    15. JRJoe Rogan44:13

        Far more.

    16. JMJillian Michaels44:14

        And it- it's like... (exclaims) Hold on.

    17. JRJoe Rogan44:16

        Especially when you're dealing with kids and-

    18. JMJillian Michaels44:19

        Oh, that's a whole different beast.

    19. JRJoe Rogan44:20

        This is where it gets really crazy.

    20. JMJillian Michaels44:21

        No, that's evil.

    21. JRJoe Rogan44:22

        I, there's this w- h- hilarious conversation between this woman who's like, she looks like she's probably in her 70s, and this, uh, person's asking her, uh, "If you had a granddaughter, would you support them, uh, taking puberty blockers?" She's like, "Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's insane to try to force a girl to go through puberty if she's really a boy," and this and that. "Would you, uh, would you allow them to get a tattoo?" "Oh, I think that's permanent."

    22. JMJillian Michaels44:52

        (laughs)

    23. JRJoe Rogan44:54

        No irony, seconds later.

    24. JMJillian Michaels44:56

        Nope.

    25. JRJoe Rogan44:57

        No recognition of what she's saying. No. Like, tattoos can be removed, lady.

    26. JMJillian Michaels45:01

        I know.

    27. JRJoe Rogan45:02

        Yeah. They can-

    28. JMJillian Michaels45:03

        They- they don't-

    29. JRJoe Rogan45:03

        ... laser those off (laughs) .

    30. JMJillian Michaels45:04

        Have you noticed, though? They really don't understand it.
12. 53:07 – 1:08:05

    Mass influence and MKUltra: Manson, LSD studies, and state power

    1. JMJillian Michaels53:07

       I'm not quite sure why the human mind is so fragile. I've, I've asked myself that so many times. And, and this is, this is gonna sound totally off pieced here, but you, you brought up demons and what have you, and I just watched that... I didn't read the book, so forgive me. But I watched the documentary on the book Chaos on Netflix.

    2. JRJoe Rogan53:26

       Oh yeah, I read the book.

    3. JMJillian Michaels53:27

       And... Okay, are you not completely... I, I cannot wrap my head around how Manson got seemingly normal people to commit this kind of murder. And when you listen to these women talk about it, they're like, "And then I stabbed her 15 times, and I felt the knife go into her hip bone, and she looked at me and said, 'I'm dead.' And then..." Like, no emotion. What did you do to this woman's mind? And you can't say she's an outlier.

    4. JRJoe Rogan54:02

       Right.

    5. JMJillian Michaels54:02

       Because he was able to convince the group of people.

    6. JRJoe Rogan54:06

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JMJillian Michaels54:07

       I, I cannot understand this kind of fragility.

    8. JRJoe Rogan54:12

       Well, that's complex.

    9. JMJillian Michaels54:12

       What is that?

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:13

        Well, that's MKUltra.

    11. JMJillian Michaels54:13

        It's... Is it not? Is it that?

    12. JRJoe Rogan54:15

        Oh yeah, no-

    13. JMJillian Michaels54:16

        Do you think it's that?

    14. JRJoe Rogan54:17

        ... it's, no, 100%. That's Jolly West. Jolly West was the CIA operative-

    15. JMJillian Michaels54:22

        (sighs)

    16. JRJoe Rogan54:22

        ... who visited Manson in jail. He's also the guy that visited Jack Ruby after he shot Kennedy.

    17. JMJillian Michaels54:27

        Right, okay.

    18. JRJoe Rogan54:27

        And then Jack Ruby starts saying, "I'm seeing demons, and the Jews are on fire." And, you know, Jack Ruby didn't have a history of mental illness like that, like, like complete psychotic breakdowns, but he did after Jolly West visited him-

    19. JMJillian Michaels54:40

        Did not notice.

    20. JRJoe Rogan54:41

        ... in jail. Yeah, there was like... There's like real documentation about those experiments. One of 'em is Operation Midnight Climax. So, the CIA was operating brothels, and they were operating brothels where they would have two-way mirrors, and they would be behind the mirrors, and these prostitutes who were working for the CIA would give the johns LSD, and then they would observe them. This is all docu- this is-

    21. JMJillian Michaels55:06

        I, do you know... I, I, I knew a little bit about INK- MKUltra obviously in that they were using psychedelics to influence people and try to gain mind control.

    22. JRJoe Rogan55:13

        LSD in particular, yeah.

    23. JMJillian Michaels55:14

        Okay, so here's my question though. This is what I find so fascinating. Do you think that the LSD simply accelerated that mental vulnerability or the ability to warp someone's mind? Because when you tell people now...... you're going to perform a sex change on a child, they think that's a good idea. And, uh, I'll, I'll tie it back to one thing that also is seemingly unrelated, but everyone's outraged about RFK. "He's not a doctor. Oh my God, he's, he's trying to get to the root of autism and he's misguided about it." Where was your outrage when Xavier Becerra, who's not a doctor, wanted to remove all age limits for sex changes on kids, whether surgery or not, the medicalization component that we talked about? Like, that to me is a group psychosis. I wonder-

    24. JRJoe Rogan56:04

        Yeah.

    25. JMJillian Michaels56:04

        ... like, w- to get an adult to... I'm like, "Where's your outrage and your concern about this?" 'Cause this is batshit crazy.

    26. JRJoe Rogan56:10

        Right.

    27. JMJillian Michaels56:10

        And nobody said a word, nobody cared. It went completely under the radar. And, y- I'm just wondering if the ability (laughs) to capture someone's mind in the way that they did, through these CIA studies, did LSD s- simply accelerate a vulnerability that's already preexisting and you're watching the brainwashing of people (laughs) go on over the course of decades? 'Cause if you said this to a person, arguably when, in Obama's first term, when he ran on gay marriage-

    28. JRJoe Rogan56:38

        Right.

    29. JMJillian Michaels56:38

        ... that you were gonna run sex changes on children in the year 2024, people would've lost their friggin' mind.

    30. JRJoe Rogan56:45

        Right. Yeah.
13. 1:08:05 – 1:27:33

    Human capacity for atrocity—and the uneasy ethics of ‘becoming a monster’

    1. JMJillian Michaels1:08:05

       You know, I've heard, I don't know if this is true or not. So, I- I heard that similar things were given... Uh, forgive me for throwing this out there, it could be total bullshit, but to Hamas on the October 7th attack in order to be able to commit those kinds of atrocities.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:08:20

       Yeah, I don't know.

    3. JMJillian Michaels1:08:21

       I don't know either. I've heard- I've heard it through friends who are Israeli, it could be bullshit, but I- I would wonder if you have to commit those kinds of violent acts against another human being... I would- I would imagine you'd have to be altered in some capacity? I- I can't even fathom being able to... I- I don't know. I can't- I can't wrap my head around it.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:08:44

       Well, I think human beings are capable of great atrocities without s- any kind of drugs.

    5. JMJillian Michaels1:08:48

       One on one like that, though?

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:08:50

       Yeah.

    7. JMJillian Michaels1:08:50

       Really?

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:08:51

       Yeah, they do it. I mean, look at Vietnam. Look at the things that people did during Vietnam.

    9. JMJillian Michaels1:08:56

       I guess so.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:08:56

        I don't- I don't think they dosed them up in Vietnam.

    11. JMJillian Michaels1:08:58

        I guess you're right. No, I guess you're right.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:08:59

        And, you know, in Vietnam people were taking heroin and smoking weed, and they were still doing that. Y- ye- it's... People have an evil capacity to other, other people and decide... You see it politically, you know, in this country. Like, people on the left will-

    13. JMJillian Michaels1:09:14

        Oh, yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:09:14

        ... demonize people on the right, people on the right will demonize people on the left. It's just like... It's a tribal thing that... It's- it's, uh, an echo of our past because essentially when we were small tribes of 150 people and then you got invaded by a neighboring tribe, you had to be able to commit extreme violence against the other, and you had to be able to think of them as not you. That's not a person, that's- that's them, and you have to be able to go after them.

    15. JMJillian Michaels1:09:46

        I- I can understand that broadly.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:09:47

        And it's encouraged by the group and s-

    17. JMJillian Michaels1:09:48

        Okay, right, fair.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:09:49

        Yeah.

    19. JMJillian Michaels1:09:50

        But, the... Mm. Some of it is just-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:09:51

        Yeah, no, I get it.

    21. JMJillian Michaels1:09:53

        ... so visceral and hideous, and I don't (laughs) mean to bring the vibe down, but it's- it's some... It's one thing to- to kill another human being, that I have to, this is how we survive, or whatever it is. We're fighting Nazis and you don't have a choice. Okay, fair. But t- t- to behead... J- just the-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:10:10

        Oh, yeah.

    23. JMJillian Michaels1:10:10

        ... you know, the... That kind of stuff I just think-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:10:12

        Torture. Yeah.

    25. JMJillian Michaels1:10:13

        Wha- th- there's no-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:10:15

        Yeah.

    27. JMJillian Michaels1:10:15

        I- I often ask... This is going to a- a very unplanned place, but I ask myself what I'm capable of if somebody hurt my kids or hurt my wife or hurt my mom. Like, what would I be capable of doing?

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:10:27

        I bet you'd be capable of extreme violence because-

    29. JMJillian Michaels1:10:29

        I think- Oh, without question?

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:10:32

        ... you're a human being.

Episode duration: 2:46:26