EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,114 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- BOBono
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
(instrumental music plays) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Uh, I fucking loved your film. It was really great.
- BOBono
You saw it?
- JRJoe Rogan
Watched it last night, yeah.
- BOBono
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was cool too, because I always feel special when I gotta p- enter in the password 'cause I know that nobody else has seen it yet, you know? I gotta e- enter in the email and the password, and I watched it, and I screen mirrored it on the TV. It was great, man. And it's, it was so, uh, like, almost like a fever dream. It was wild, like the way you set it up, all black and white.
- BOBono
Yeah. If you get past the first three minutes... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- BOBono
... it is a ... I could... I, I ... Even my own mates were like, "Oh, don't do that."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
(laughs) It's like, wow. And, and it is like a fever dream.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- BOBono
That opening. But that really happened to me, so you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well it was great, man. It's great. And it's also like, I love the way you did it, like you played the beginning of some songs, and you talked about the origin of the songs. The thing that I have a hard time believing, though, is that you weren't a good singer when you were young.
- BOBono
(clicks tongue) Well, you know punk rock, you're a bit of a shouter. You know, that's really what you do, you just get up there and shout. You, sh- I'm shouting at God, I'm shouting at everyone. Right? I'm shouting at the band. That scene in the, in w- when we're doing I Will Follow-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
... that's really true. So I'm, I'm there and we're improvising this song that becomes I Will Follow If You Walk Away, Walk Away, Walk A- I mean, it's like this while we're ... We're trying to get s- just do something original, and we're really ripping (laughs) off ... The irony is we're really ripping off Public Image Limited, this... Johnny Rotten became John Lydon again for this band called Public Image Limited back in the late '70s. And, and I'm singing about, you know, it's a suicide note really, and I'm singing about this c- and they're saying, like, "What's it about?" And I said, "I think it's this, it's this guy is gonna follow somebody into the grave, you know? They're gonna ... It's, I think it's about a, it's a, it's a s- it's a child following their mother, missing them so much that he'll follow them into the grave."
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- BOBono
And then, we realized that our, our, our rehearsal room, the little yellow house, is beside the cemetery where my mother is buried.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- BOBono
And I've never visited her once, or talked about her once. And we're, we'd been rehearsing there for months. And it's funny, you know, you can deny somebody in conversation, you can deny somebody to yourself, but in the songs, all that shit comes out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. Wow.
- BOBono
So, yeah. But thank you for watching it. That's, that's, um ... Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
I loved it. (clears throat) It w- it was such an interesting w- way you put it all together. I've never seen anybody do that like that. Like, you did like, it- it, it's like a documentation of your career, but in this like, very unique way with like, talking about things and then explaining these moments, and then the music plays, and it's, and it's all black-and-white. It was really cool.
- BOBono
Yeah. There's a ... (clears throat) There's a sort of ... Black-and-white lends it a kinda clarity. I did this series of shows in the, the Beacon, uh, Theatre in New York. And, and it was going so well, we thought we should record it. I will tell you, the night before we opened our show in New York, my missus, Ali, (laughs) said, "I don't think you should do this."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
"Just please, please do not do this to yourself in front of, you know, a New York crowd. Cancel it now, do what most people do on a book tour, get somebody to (laughs) interview them, and just, they'll come anyway, everyone will be happy." And I don't know, I just went, for once, I'm, I didn't take her sage advice and I, I did it. And the difference was, with an audience, it was funny. And she was like, "Oh, that's the bit I didn't get in the rehearsals. It's funny."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. So what was she thinking? It was self-indulgent?
- BOBono
It's just ... Uh, that it was dull, self-indulgent, here you are. I mean, all these things, they're a version of ... L- (laughs) here's another great thing about me. No.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 15:00 – 30:00
Yeah. …
- BOBono
f- fell in love with him, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
Because he couldn't be pious.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- BOBono
He just ... He had to be himself.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
Um, years later, if it's ... Years later, and we really-
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at that.
- BOBono
Oh, wow, there you go. Oh, that's so ... Oh my God.
- JRJoe Rogan
There it is.
- BOBono
That's Adam there, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
Uh, he looks like he might've had a few tequilas, and, um, I don't know, but oh, wow, and I'm giving it the arty, poetic face.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
I am a poet like you are. And, um, uh, I call, called ... I heard, I heard he was, um ... I heard he was in trouble. He was, he was very ill, years later than this, and I called, uh, I called up, and, and June answered the phone. Excuse the poor Texas accent, all you Texans out there, but she was like ... Or Nashville, in her case. She was like, "Oh, Bono. Wow, thank you for calling. It's so good to hear from you. How's Dublin? How's Allie? How's the Burlington?" This is a hotel, right? (laughs) And I was like, "Great," and we're talking, you know, phrases with, with, uh, with June. She said, "What's going on with this?" And I'm going, "What's going on?" And I said, "Look," eventually, I said, "Look, June, I'm just, I'm just calling because I heard John wasn't well, and I just, I just want you to ... Wanted him to know, and that we're thinking about him." She said, "Oh, honey, we're in bed. He's right beside me." (laughs) And he hands me the phone, or she hands him the phone. He goes, "S- sorry about that." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
And, uh, "I'm, I'm fine," and, uh, and bless her, um, actually, June passed away first, and, and Johnny called Rick Rubin, and those American Recordings were, were a result of a conversation he had with Rick Rubin where he said, "Please, will you work with me? Because if you don't, I will die."
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- BOBono
And that's what you ... If you hear those American Recordings, um, amazing version of Nine Inch Nails, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hurt.
- BOBono
Hurt.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
He did a version of One, also Depeche Mode's Personal Jesus. I mean, it's just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
What a voice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
Are you a fan of, of, of Johnny Cash?
- JRJoe Rogan
Huge.
- BOBono
What's, what's your-
- JRJoe Rogan
I used to have a dog named Johnny Cash.
- 30:00 – 45:00
Yeah, one of the…
- JRJoe Rogan
because it's like here you're honoring this man who's like this incredible, fantastic singer, but your bandmates, they've got a good instinct like, "This is gonna be a big press op as well, like, this is part of the reason why he wants to do this." And then that's not gonna be fun 'cause it's gonna be weird, and then, boom.
- BOBono
Yeah, one of the great, one of the great arm wrestlers, um, emotional arm wrestlers of all time. He, he, it's interesting that there was a generosity there which, whi- which, which he wanted opera, because opera was kind of the punk of its time. Classical musicians looked down on opera, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- BOBono
These are stories from the street. They're, they're too accessible, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- BOBono
And... Oh, yeah, yeah, opera-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that's crazy. I would have never imagined that.
- BOBono
Opera was much rougher, and his... and he instinctively knew, and he was constantly trying to make relationships that would cross the divide and make sort of opera popular. And so, to the point where, yeah, he did. He used to call our house and say... y- y- you know, at first it was with me, but then when... He would haunt our housekeeper, Theresa, and say, like, "Is God at home?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
"Well, tell God to... he is late on the song." Or, you know, he'd do this kind of carry on. And, and I... again, this, these figures in, in my life. I knew that I was in... you know, on sacred ground when I was near him.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- BOBono
I knew this. But the band, they didn't have the... (laughs) they didn't have the relationship with opera. They... well, actually, Edge's dad was into opera, but my dad... it was, it was... I u- I was using Luciano Pavarotti to get to my dad.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
That was the real thing. And so, as you see in the film, I play my father just by turning my head.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
And I become him. And, and, and I was trying to impress him. I'd be in Finnegan's Pub, where we'd be sitting not speaking to each other, and, and, and I try something and I go, um, "What do you think about, uh, Luciano Pavarotti calling the house?" And he'd go, "Did he get a wrong number?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
You know, it'd be all that. And, and so, yeah, there was an emotional through line because our house was an opera. Unfortunately, my dad was... going on in his life was operatic. Um, but it's also funny.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah, and it's also this... you are both celebrating the brilliance of this incredible singer, and also you're, you're taking the piss out of this whole cult of celebrity thing that comes along with it.
- BOBono
Yeah. And Princess Diana.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- BOBono
The best line-
- JRJoe Rogan
That thing with your dad and Princess Diana was hilarious? (laughs)
- BOBono
So... because Edge's, Edge's dad is, is, uh... Edge's mother and father are from Wales. So to... you know. So we're with Pavarotti in M- Modena, I think it was, and he... s- s- so the Princess of Wales is meeting the great tenor, and he is offered to meet, you know, anyone who wants... you know, Edge's family, because they're from Wales, to meet the Princess of Wales. And he says to me, "Look, do, do, does your dad want to go?" And I of course know the reason. I know the answer and the reason for the answer. But he says, "Well, just ask him." So I ask him. I just go, "Dad, listen, you wouldn't want to, uh, go meet Lady Di, you know, the princess?" "What? What? Uh, why would I want to meet a member of the British royal family? That's like asking me do I want to meet the winner of the lotto." And I'm like, "Okay, got it, got it, got it." And then later, she comes into our dressing room and melts him-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
... just by reaching her hand out, "How do you do?" And he's like, "Oh, very well, thank you." Um, and as I say, 800 years of oppression gone in a second.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
And if you wonder about, um, the reasoning for having a royal family, and a lot of Irish people do, there, I'd... I would say that's the reason right there.
- JRJoe Rogan
The weight of it. The weight of it overcame him.
- BOBono
Yeah.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
(laughs) …
- BOBono
and, and with the liner notes, which are the Declaration-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
... going, "Didn't you say this here?" And they-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- BOBono
... "Get out. Who followed me into the bathroom?" It's like, but, but I... Yeah. I, I, I like the idea that it's, that this is far from finished, this composition.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- BOBono
And for some people, the America that is available to you and me doesn't exist yet, but it will, and it can, and, uh, and... Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
We hope that every election cycle, like this, this will be the one that finally makes us what we truly believe we are.
- BOBono
Mm-hmm. It's-
- JRJoe Rogan
But the, the country is just so co-opted by this... First of all, you have this genuine issue with the fact that it's essentially a popularity contest-
- BOBono
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... to see who gets to be running the government.
- BOBono
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You have a popularity contest that's fueled entirely by special interests-
- BOBono
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and the military-industrial complex and pharmaceutical drug companies, and it's just... It's a, it's all, it's all the opposite of this- of an authentic song.
- BOBono
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
The thing about an authentic song where s- it, the, it makes your fucking goosebumps stand up, you're like, "Goddamn." Can I tell you a story?
- BOBono
You saying it's an AI comp- composition?
- JRJoe Rogan
Can I tell you a story? (clears throat) Um, a long time ago, probably 25 years ago, I was on mushrooms with a friend of mine, and we were laying on the side of this hill overlooking this canyon, and we played In God's Country.
- BOBono
Oh, wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
And i- it was just the, the, the peak of the mushrooms, and the songs, the melody, the way that song hit, it just... It gave me this insane appreciation for things. Like at that mo- it was like this very unique fusion of the beauty of the music and the love of the experience, like the... Mushrooms bring out this like loving, like communal quality, like happiness, and, and joy. And just lying in this field looking up at this canyon and hearing that song, it was like, "This is what, what music does." It takes these moments and wherever they're at, it breaks them through the membrane into this new place.
- BOBono
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like this moment, it broke through this membrane and brought me to this space. I think about it all the time. I think about that particular experience all the time.
- BOBono
We need... The line in that when I'm singing is, um, is a line that doesn't just apply to America but applies to us personally, um, wherever you are, is, you know, we need new dreams tonight. And you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
... can't be living on... We've got, we can't be living on secondhand dreams.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
And that's, I think... The renewal, I think is what, what we're all looking for, and, um, and, uh, yeah. It's, it's, it's something to be protected, and, and I... Not protected. That sounds like it's... It's n- it's like it...
- JRJoe Rogan
I think you're right, though.
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
The impact. …
- BOBono
they just gr- grow in stature when they know they're being useful. I had a truck driver on that same tour. He had like tattoos all over his head and whatever, and he was just saying, "Can I drive? I heard 50% of all truck drivers in Africa are gonna die. Is that right? Because of this disease, AIDS." I said, "Yeah." He said, "Can I give you my number? I will drive." Like, that's America. And, and yeah, there's the bureaucracy, the, the, the, the, the pen-pushers, I get it, and I get people's frustration for it. But, but I'm just, I just wanna remind Americans of the size...... of their country. And it's... and I'm not talking about the geography.
- JRJoe Rogan
The impact.
- BOBono
I'm just... The, the size of the idea.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- BOBono
The, the, the, the... You know, it's just... It's, it's just an extraordinary thing. It's an idea, I think, big enough to fit the whole world. And when it becomes a continent, you know... When it becomes an island rather than a continent... I think it's a subcontinent. What is it? (laughs) I should have, should have gone to geography, uh, uh, lessons more. But you know, you know, what I'm talking about.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
When it shrinks, America seems to stop being America. And I know you don't wanna get into wars, and you shouldn't. Um, but that are... That, that, that don't concern you. But, but there's this, this word freedom, land of the free.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
That's... And the brave. This is, this is who we look to you f- f- for. And we look to you for these qualities, and I believe they're everywhere. And I don't believe any one party has a... has a hold on them-
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- BOBono
... um, uh, on these, on these qualities. But, you know, it's just to say... It's a funny one for me. I... One of the reasons I came on, on, on, on the show, I wanted to... on the show was I, I wanted to interview you. I wanted to... I just wanted to get your take on where America is at the, at the present time because, because you're talking to everyone. You know, (clears throat) and this isn't... this is a compliment to you. But my book, you know, I wrote this book, Surrender, and sort of... if there's a point to it at the very end, it's, it's just I'm, I'm shouting at God, I'm having my wrestling match with my maker. (laughs) And you just get this thing of... and, and you probably picked it up by now, "Shut up and listen."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Yeah.
- BOBono
And I need to listen more. You are a amazing listener. And I don't know who it was or some... who said listening doesn't grant the other side legitimacy, but it grants them their humanity and restores your own. You sit in this room and you listen to everybody, and that makes you very valuable, um, in... to, to the country. And, and I wanted to just get your, your take on it. What, what would your advice be to me and people like me who are not part of the big industrial complex? Just... We just, we just wanna serve the idea of America and the people who depend on that idea.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I, I think-
- BOBono
What, what would be your advice to me?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, I would give you zero advice. I, I don't know if I'm qualified to give advice. But I would say that America goes through these great periods of overcorrection.
- BOBono
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It goes these great periods of... like you, you saw it during COVID, during the lockdowns and the authoritarianism, and we fell into a kind of state of tyranny where there was just massive oppression of free speech, including government-sponsored oppression. They were contacting, uh, different social media platforms and banning legitimate doctors and scholars because they had different opinions about how things-
- BOBono
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... should be handled. There was a wide scale censorship, a push for a changing of the First Amendment, "The First Amendment needs to be overhauled. The First Amendment doesn't appl- apply to hate speech or to disinformation." There was all these, like, new ways of talking about censorship-
- BOBono
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in this country and condoning censorship, and it's very dangerous because it's all about money. It had nothing to do with protecting people. There's-
- BOBono
That's what I worry about.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
The, the argument about free speech is that it seems to be sponsored by a lot of people who you sense don't really respect it so much. And it... but it is a very economic, um, for them to not have to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- BOBono
... to live with the consequences-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- BOBono
... of, of a story. I think... Well, is it the communication? Do, do... I think it's the... 'Cause in 1996, this is a long time ago, Communications Act, Decency Act, that meant the internet did not have to apply by the same rules as the rest of the media.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 1:15:00 – 1:30:00
Just, yeah. …
- JRJoe Rogan
it's just-
- BOBono
Just, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... a cra- it's a crazy way, and e- each calling each other disrespectful. It's a crazy way to handle any world events. It's just terrible platform for it.
- BOBono
Yeah. Just think of, again, I think of America, the Americans of Omaha Beach, the people who, like, the level of courage.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
And I think of these people on the front line in, um, Europe. I mean, I haven't really spoken about Europe, uh, w- with, with you. But, you know, if, if, if, if America's the melting pot, I would say Europe's the, the mosaic, you know? It's all these different people who speak with a different language, uh, but ha- are trying for one voice in Europe, which is, it can sound like cacophony. They call it Eurobabble in, in, in Brussels. But I'm, I've really, I'm really now realizing how romantic it was, you know, with the enlightenment, with the renaissance, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
We've got, we got a lot to offer. And, and, and Europe has ... Europe's under threat. And those bots at every election now that, where this candidate is pro-Europe and pro-European unity, they are just getting a shit storm of disinformation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- BOBono
And I just think, "Wow." But it's, I think Europe is, and America are just sexier than these people. Is that a, a trite thing to say? But it's like they're, they're so kinda unsexy.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
You know? That's, I mean, that's ... Sorry, I have, I have driven up-
- JRJoe Rogan
Unromantic.
- BOBono
... unromantic. It's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- BOBono
That's right. It's just these very dull, not funny people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- BOBono
And are trying to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Not captivated by a greater idea.
- BOBono
... take over the world. They're not funny.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- BOBono
Lukashenko of Belarus, that dude is not funny.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- BOBono
We don't have to go further. (laughs) We don't have to go further.
- JRJoe Rogan
Who do you think is the funniest world leader?
- BOBono
Oh my God. Who ... Yeah, that's a really good question.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's gotta be Trump. He's the funniest.
- BOBono
Well, he has a thing that a lot of standup comedians have, which is he can say the thing in the room that no one else is gonna say.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- BOBono
And that generally creates a laugh. And, um, but I also think he mightn't be able to take a joke.
- 1:30:00 – 1:30:52
Yeah. …
- BOBono
to church in the dark, you know, that's what rock and roll is, and we're just looking for little shards of light.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BOBono
We find it in, in an audience. We find our transcendence together. With the movie, we also go to church in the dark, in cinema. You're sitting in a, you're in, you're in a dark space, and i- it's projected light telling other people's stories, and somebody said it, "Cinema's ... it's like being born." Like you go into the womb. It's like you're floating around (laughs) in the ... As Jim Sheridan would say, he's my hero, psychological genius, Irish director, My Left Foot, The Boxer, some great films, he'd say, "Yeah, you're in the amniotic fluid. You're inside the mother." (laughs)
Episode duration: 2:59:50
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