EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,318 words- 0:00 – 1:24
Taking the FBI director job: expectations, surprises, and quick reforms
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music)
- KPKash Patel
Joe Rogan. All right. What's going on, man? How you doing, Joe?
- JRJoe Rogan
Very good to see you, sir.
- KPKash Patel
Thanks for having me in Austin.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is it like to be the head of the FBI? How weird is that?
- KPKash Patel
It's completely-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
... F-ing wild.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
I mean, I don't even know how to describe it. I-
- JRJoe Rogan
What was it... What did you think it was going to be like? And what was different once you got in there?
- KPKash Patel
Um, I thought that we were going to be able to come in with the movement that President Trump came in with, the administration to fix this... fix the errors that the leadership of the FBI previously made, not like the 37,000 and change people. And we are, we're doing a ton of work. Um, I didn't know we would be able to do it this quickly, is my surprise. And that, what that showed me was the people at the Bureau, literally people who've been there, 30-year agents, they're coming up to me and being like, "Dude, we wanted to do that 15 years ago."
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- KPKash Patel
"We wanted to do that 10 years ago." And then- then my question was like, "You guys are the pros." Like, I'm just... Uh, my job as the director, I'm not chasing down bad guys, I don't know how to do that, is to give them what you need and get the hell out of the way. And they were like, "Dude, all they did was get in the way." So-
- 1:24 – 3:10
Moving agents out of D.C. and back to the field to fight real crime
- JRJoe Rogan
So like, what like- what kind of stuff pacifically- specifically did you start doing that they wanted to do 15 years ago?
- KPKash Patel
Simple. The one that I've taken the biggest heat for. You know, when I said, "Hey, there are... These are the statistics from the USG, so you can take them or leave them, right? I don't know where else to go because nobody else does these, right?" In the last calendar year, not this one, the year before last, 100,000 people were dying of drug overdoses a year. That's one every seven minutes. A child or kid was being raped every six and a half minutes in this country. And there were two homicides an hour in this country. And we have a 38,000-person workforce, and I said, "Okay. Where are- where are the agents? Where are our intel analysts? Where is everybody?" We got 55 field offices, we got 300 what we call RAs, resident agencies, so satellite offices to field offices in major cities. And they said, "Well, we've got 11,000 FBI employees in what we call the NCR, the National Capital Region." So if you take D.C. and you do a 50-mile, 60-mile radius around it, 11,000, almost a third of the workforce work there. And I said, "What the hell are they doing there?" They said, "Well, they mandated if you want a promotion, if you want to move up, you got to come back here and prioritize stuff here." So I said, "Look, we're moving agents and intel analysts to the field." And that's what I did. 1500 people are going to the field, because a third of the crime doesn't happen in Washington, D.C. and the 65 miles around it. And everybody was like, "We've been wanting to do this forever." I mean, just think about it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
... one agent out in Indian country, one agent out in Texas, Arkansas, Washington State prevents a homicide, conducts a major drug bust, stops a sh- a ton of fentanyl or meth from coming into our country. One agent can do that. And th- the agents that I talk to now from around the country are just stoked. Th-
- 3:10 – 9:43
Fentanyl as a national security threat: cartels, border routes, and the China precursor pipeline
- JRJoe Rogan
That's awesome. That's great news. That really is great news, because the fentanyl thing scares the shit out of me. It really does.
- KPKash Patel
Well, it's one of the things I want to hammer down on. But whenever you want to get into that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, please. Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
Whew.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so terrifying because, you know, we've shown it on the podcast, the amount that'll kill you.
- KPKash Patel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so small. It's like the- the tip of a pencil.
- KPKash Patel
Yeah, it's like point something something milligrams. It's not-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
It's nothing. I'll give you... I put this to big programming, I love doing this long-form stuff and this is the only long-form interview I'm going to do. I hope you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, thank you.
- KPKash Patel
I do one interview-
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm honored.
- KPKash Patel
I do one interview a month. One. And it's usually like a five-minute TV thing just to keep-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
... abreast. And we do a lot of stuff on social media, but I've been looking forward to this for a long time. Even when I was on the campaign, I was just, uh, this is like the best way to get information out. So fentanyl, right? Everybody's like, "How do you attack fentanyl? How do you stop this stuff?" Okay. Yes, let's go after the gangs, excuse me, the, uh, narco-terrorists down in Mexico. 100%, you got to go after the cartels, the drug trafficking organizations. You got to shore up the southern border. And the president has done an amazing job at both of those things, made it a priority. So we have decreased the amount of fentanyl being moved around, let's say, right? But not necessarily coming into the United States. So where's the root of the problem? The CCP. So the fentanyl precursors, the stuff you need to make fentanyl comes from mainland China. That's it. Now, I'm sure like 1% of it comes from somewhere else in the world, but that's where it comes. They've got hundreds of companies standing up in mainland China shipping this stuff out into the world. Now their cover is that f- fentanyl has, and it does have a legitimate lawful purpose in terms of an anesthetic or medical use for, um, anesthesiology-related stuff, okay? So there's like a minimal use for it. And what the CCP has done is they've come out and said this is like the biggest like... Talk about the devil pulling the wool over the world's eyes. They're like, "We don't make fentanyl." They're right, they don't. They just give you all the ingredients for it and ship it to Mexico. And then what they did was, to trick the world, they came out and said, "Hey, we're gonna not sell precursor X." They're like, so now we're out of the fentanyl trade entirely. The problem is there's 14 other precursors you can use to make fentanyl and they're still shipping all of those. So what we did when I got to the Bureau is we stood up this massive enterprise to go after fentanyl precursor companies in mainland China. And they're probably not gonna like that. And what they're doing now to get cute is they're shipping that stuff not straight to here, they're going to places like India, and I'm also doing operations in India. And they're having the Mexican cartels now make this fentanyl down in Mexico still, but you know, instead of going right up to southern border and into America, you know what they're doing? They're flying it into Vancouver, they're taking the precursors up to Canada, manufacturing it up there and doing their global distribution routes from up there 'cause we were being so effective down south.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oye.
- KPKash Patel
Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a huge lift, but part of it is Americans just don't understand the depth and depravity of fentanyl. But what's worse is, fentanyl, you don't hear of fentanyl deaths in China. You don't hear of fentanyl deaths in India. You don't really hear of fentanyl deaths in England, Australia, New Zealand, our Five Eyes partners in Canada. The Chinese, in my opinion, the CCP, have used it as a directed approach because we are their adversary, and they don't like us, and we don't like what they're doing when it comes to fentanyl. And their long-term game is, is this: how do I, in my opinion, kneecap the United States of America, our largest adversary? Well, why don't we go and take out generations of young men and women who might grow up to serve in the United States military or become a cop or become a teacher? And that's what they're doing when you wipe out tens of thousands of Americans a year. It's a long-term plan for them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. That is such a dark, dark thing.
- KPKash Patel
It is, but we got-
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh.
- KPKash Patel
We got... We're on it.
- JRJoe Rogan
What else could be done, like with the Chinese companies? I mean, i- is there ever been any negotiation with Xi Jinping, with the United States, or the, like where you could lighten up tariffs or do something and make some sort of a deal? Or is it just-
- KPKash Patel
So-
- JRJoe Rogan
... so profitable for them that they're gonna do it no matter what, if they can?
- KPKash Patel
Here's the thing. They're not making a ton of money off of it. Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, so it's really just for that purpose.
- KPKash Patel
Right. You could send fe- you could sell fentanyl precursors, and unless you jacked up the price to exorbitant amounts of money, they're not making a ton of money. And so, it's an all-of-government approach. So I'm working with guys like the Secretary of Treasury to do sanctions on some of these c- companies, right? Then I'm working with our Five Eyes partners, and our Five Eyes are the five English-speaking countries in the world, you know, uh, Canada, America, England, uh, New Zealand, and Australia, right? We share intelligence, we share classified intelligence on this stuff. So I'm asking them, I said, "Hey, it's not just affecting us. It will affect you and your population. The CCP just hasn't directed it at you yet," and they know that. And I said, "Guys, I need your help." I'm looking at intelligence reporting that shows fentanyl precursors are now in your country. The fentanyl itself isn't being deployed into your country, but it's there being manufactured. And so I'm asking for their help to shut down those factories and production facilities, and I'm asking the Mexican government's help to come and say, "Hey, your drug trafficking organizations are now exporting the manufacturing of fentanyl," and getting creative in the ways in which they obtain fentanyl precursors. So they'll say, "Oh, we didn't get it from China. We got it from India. We got it from, you know, wherever." And they're g- it's too cute by half. It's not like there's been a reduction in the amount of fentanyl precursors that mainland China produces. What there has been a reduction in is, is President Trump's administration's aggressive approach to just crush the fentanyl trafficking. And unfortunately, our adversaries adapt. We're so good down South on the border here, and we're so good in Mexico, that they're moving it elsewhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus. God.
- KPKash Patel
We're gonna get them. I promise you. I promised the president and the American people. We will not have kids dying of fentanyl overdoses in our streets. Just give me a little bit more time. We have a massive operation going on around the world on this.
- 9:43 – 13:09
How fentanyl is marketed to youth: fake pills, pill presses, and “candy” drugs
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that's great news. That's g- it's great to hear. So, um, the fe- the fentanyl, a lot of it is, uh, it's not just fentanyl overdoses, right? It's, it's opiate overdoses overall. How m- Is a lot of it because people get hooked on pills, and like, and then they want more, and then they go buy black market pills, and those are the ones that have fentanyl in it? Or is it m- molly and things like that that have been laced with fentanyl?
- KPKash Patel
So... Great question. Nobody asks these questions. It's probably why your show's number one. (laughs) Um, they are so demonic in their ways. They're like, "We'll make fentanyl, and people can go use fentanyl and get killed on fentanyl." Then what they do is they manufacture, as part of this lift, "they" being the drug trafficking organizations, once they get the precursors from the CCP, they take their pill presses and they make fake oxycodone. So like, literally, I'm just giving you an example. Make tens of thousands of pills of fake oxycodone, and we, we bust them for it. And in that fake pill is fentanyl. It's laced with fentanyl that kills people. Then the drug trafficking organizations, to make it appealing for the youth, shape this illicit narcotic in the form of like candy and gummy bears. So you hear about kids in New York who just bin- ha- happened to have like a trace amount, touching it somewhere, also dying from it. So they have absolutely no rules or boundaries whatsoever when it comes to how they deploy fentanyl to get into our population. It could be through another drug, it could be through a synthetic, it could be through a fake drug, or it could be like, "Hey..." And we've seized it. Thousands of pounds of material that looks like candy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Are they doing it specifically to try to get people to overdose on candy? Or are they selling this candy as a drug?
- KPKash Patel
They're selling it as a drug.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. Then they're just saying it looks like candy?
- KPKash Patel
It just looks appealing to kids, right? Like so, inner city youth-
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh.
- KPKash Patel
... they're like, "Hey, put a pill down on the table, put a gummy bear down on the table." You know? A younger person's gonna be like, "Oh, that's cool. Let me try that." I mean, I can tell you stories from now until the entire show about high school kids on the verge of graduating, and they went out and took a pill that they thought was, you know, an upper, but it happened to be laced with fentanyl. They died. Their parents are calling.
- JRJoe Rogan
(gasps) .
- KPKash Patel
They're destroyed. And people are like, "Well, we gotta go after the drug traffickers." I'm like, "We do, and we are." But what my job is to educate the American public on the root cause of the fentanyl that is destroying our society, and it's the fentanyl precursors. And I've asked, I literally just got off the phone-... with the Indian government. I said, "I need your help. This stuff's coming into your country, and then they're moving it from your country because India's not consuming fentanyl. They're not. No one's dying over there from fentanyl. But I need you and your help." So my FBI is over there, working with the heads of their government, law enforcement authorities, to say, "We're gonna find these companies that buy it, and we're gonna shut them down. We're gonna sanction them. We're gonna arrest them where we can. We're gonna indict them in America if we can. We're gonna indict them in India if we can, start indicting them in places like Canada, and the UK, and England, and Australia." This is a global problem. And the reason it's gotten so bad is because nobody did anything for four years. You know, people are like, "How do they stand this up?" Well, if you give the CCP, who has an endless amount of money to deploy and human capital, that's what happens. It metastasizes.
- 13:09 – 15:39
Why the last administration failed to prioritize fentanyl (and broader national security)
- JRJoe Rogan
Why didn't anybody do anything for four years? Have you been able to figure that out?
- KPKash Patel
Look, to me, I'm a national security guy, and anything that kills 100,000 people a year is a national security crisis, right? It's what we call a Tier 1 threat. And the last administration did not classify the drug trafficking enterprise as a prime threat against the American people. And so what happens is, you reorient the system of intelligence collection operations. I mean, I'm not making this up. They said climate change is our biggest priority.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
DEI is our biggest priority. I mean, you guys have heard this, and you've had-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
... guests on that say it. But these are the ramifications in real life. I only have X amount of people that can target something, right? Same with the CIA, same with the DOD. But if the United States government and Uncle Sam and your commander-in-chief said, "Hey, I need your X amount of people looking here," I can't clone that army to look back at fentanyl.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
Plus, we have to follow the chain of command.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so crazy that they would say climate change and DEI were the priorities for the FBI.
- KPKash Patel
Well, for the government.
- JRJoe Rogan
For the government-
- KPKash Patel
Uh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in total.
- KPKash Patel
So, I'll give you a better example. So, I was ch- in the end of the last Trump administration, I was Chief of Staff at the Department of Defense. One of the greatest jobs, at the time, (laughs) I thought, the greatest job I'd ever have. And when we left, we said, "Hey, you know, Iran's a huge threat. We got to, uh, never let up on the counterterrorism mission. We still have hostages out there we got to find and bring home. And the narcotics mission is a big priority." We handed off our playbook, and we said, "Look. This is not a political issue. This is protecting the American people and our allies. So, we hope you guys continue this effort." So, the DOD has this thing called CONOPs, Concept of Operations. The Department of Defense is 3 million employees, and a CONOP is how you move the machine of the Department of Defense. "Hey, we have a threat in INDOPACOM. How many carrier groups are we sending down there?" "We got a threat, uh, with government X. What are we doing operationally, kinetically? What are we doing intelligence collection?" That's a CONOP. The first Concept of Operation that the Biden administration launched at the Department of Defense was on climate change.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
You can't make this shit up.
- JRJoe Rogan
What do you think that's all about? Like, as an outsider, as someone, like, looking at it, going, "I just don't understand." Like, where's the profit in this? Like, what, what is, what's the motive? Like, w- what would incentivize all these people to get on board with it without someone logically stepping in and saying, "Hey, this is not our top priority"?
- 15:39 – 20:31
Trump-era counterterror/hostage operations and the media narrative war
- KPKash Patel
I think at its ... So, that was something I tried to answer when I was at a government for the last four years before I took this job.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sniffs) .
- KPKash Patel
And the answer laid in the first Trump term. We were doing things so effectively on national security that hadn't been done before, in such speed and volume, that the media hated us for it because the- the other party had tried to do it and failed. And so-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like what, what things specifically?
- KPKash Patel
So, when it comes to ... Okay, hostages. I can talk about that forever, too. Used to be counterterroring was a big portfolio. I ran it for the White House and National Security Council in the first Trump administration. We brought home ... People don't know this. President Trump, in his first term, brought home and rescued over 50 hostages and detainees from around the world. That's more than every president before him combined.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- KPKash Patel
Did you hear about the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Not a peep.
- KPKash Patel
... the- the successes of reuniting families with lost loved ones from Africa and the Middle East, or these operations that the president was courageous enough to greenlight to go into places like Afghanistan and do these hostage rescue ops and use SEAL Team Six and Delta, or take out guys like Baghdadi and Soleimani? President Trump's directive was simple. "We are going to protect the homeland. We're not going to endanger the lives of our armed forces and our intelligence community, but their job is to protect the homeland." And he said go, and we went. And I think there was such a resounding success that the media had such a hatred for President Trump and his administration. They just said, one, "We're not going to give you the credit," two, "We're going to put out a ton of disinformation," which we can get into, and three, when they came time to transition governments from Trump to Biden, they just said, "We're not gonna do," and this is my opinion, "We're not gonna do any of the stuff that worked, because then we'll have to attribute it to Trump's policies. So, we're gonna go off on our end." And I keep asking people to prove me wrong. Like, tell me something you did in that administration that carried out the apolitical national security mission to a T. Right? I mean, you had the secretary of defense in the Biden administration go down, go to a hospital, MIA, literally AWOL, and didn't tell the commander-in-chief, and broke the National Command Authority. There is a reason, and I was the guy responsible for that nuclear football for part of my time at the White House-
- JRJoe Rogan
(sniffs) .
- KPKash Patel
... that that thing ... And there's an unbroken chain of command between the president of United States, the secretary of defense, and the National Command Authority at all times, because shit happens. And what if it had happened in that one or two weeks the guy was in the hospital, and maybe something didn't? We don't even know, right? But no one, including the president, didn't know the secretary of defense was in the hospital. I can't tell you how big of a cataclysmic failure for the national security mission that is. And what I tell people when they're like, "Ah, it's all right. It's not that big of a deal." Well-... what if Hexeth took a week out and said, "I'm going to the hospital. I'm not telling anyone." What do you think the media would do to that guy-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
... and Trump-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
... if that were to happen now?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it would be catastrophic.
- KPKash Patel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Um, so this person went to the hospital for what? What was the-
- KPKash Patel
I keep losing my flame. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, you got the... Is it in the lighter over there?
- KPKash Patel
No, I got it. Yeah, you got it. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What was, uh... What were they in the hospital for?
- KPKash Patel
So, Secretary Austin was in the hospital for medical issues, and I'm not saying you shouldn't have treatment-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, but there should be someone else that's-
- KPKash Patel
There's- there's a plan in place.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
The Deputy Secretary of Defense comes in, you know, every time a senior goes out-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
... there is a con- continuity of government plan in place. "Oh, you're out for a weekend treatment? No problem. I'm off-"
- JRJoe Rogan
But they just hid all this?
- 20:31 – 27:48
Russiagate explained: FISA surveillance, FBI-media loop, and alleged political weaponization
- JRJoe Rogan
... or disinformation. Like, what was that?
- KPKash Patel
Whew. Pick your... So my thing is all roads lead to Russiagate, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
That's where it all started. I was, uh, coming out of, uh, my tour at JSOC as a civilian and- and DOJ and, um, I would end up going to Congress to run this thing called Russiagate, which at the time no one knew anything. It was just a whatever, and then it became what it became. And I would be the guy, the lead investigator on the Hill who said, "Hey man, look, they lied in the FISA application." Let me give you Russiagate in 90 seconds.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- KPKash Patel
Could you imagine a time in the United States of America in the 21st century where a political party would go overseas and acquire fake foreign intelligence from a foreign intelligence officer funded by donations to that political party in the United States of America, then take that material, package it, walk it to the FBI, literally, and say, "Hey, we need you to surveil the opponent of our political party who happens to be running for the President of the United States," then convince the FBI to go into a secret federal FISA court that I used to use to manhunt terrorists and say, "Hey, I need you to wiretap essentially all the comms in and around Trump camp because of the material we gave you," and then have that FBI lie to the federal court and the judge in that warrant application, which is a felony, and intentionally remove information of innocence from that application just to get it above the threshold so the judge would sign it? That's Russiagate. That's what they did. And you remember the years and years of reporting surrounding Russiagate. "The FBI would never lie. They would never do that. The leadership there is above reproach." James Comey, Andy McCabe, Peter Strzok, the list goes on. "We caught him red-handed. We caught him. You've seen the text messages, you've seen the documentation, you've seen the reports." But when I did that, when I exposed that initially (sniffs) as a staffer on the Hill, (laughs) Adam Schiff comes out and has his cronies leak to the world that I am acting as- as a genocidal dictator. There was actually an article that called me-
- JRJoe Rogan
Genocidal-
- KPKash Patel
Hang on. It gets better.
- JRJoe Rogan
... dictator?
- KPKash Patel
Yeah, no, it gets better.
- JRJoe Rogan
How do you get to be a dictator? (laughs)
- KPKash Patel
I don't know. Genocidal ones, I don't know, right? Like, you know, it's- it's a twofer.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. (laughs)
- KPKash Patel
Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's... These words don't even mean anything anymore.
- KPKash Patel
No, he... Literally, there's an article out there that they called me Torquemada, the guy from the Spanish Inquisition.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus Christ.
- KPKash Patel
And I was a staffer. So the rule was you can ding elected representatives all you want in the media. You don't touch staffers. They didn't care because they knew what I had unearthed was the biggest political criminal scheme ever perpetrated by portions of the FBI leadership and other people in the intelligence community. So the-
- JRJoe Rogan
In coordination with the media.
- KPKash Patel
In coordination and that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Who could have investigated it.
- KPKash Patel
But hang on, that's the kicker.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
So what people don't know about Russiagate that weren't paying attention was that warrant that initially kicked off the FISA surveillance on the Trump campaign writ large was substantiated by FBI leaks to the media. Two of the articles cited in that warrant from, uh, I think Mother Jones and Yahoo News, were leaks of information from the same leadership at the FBI, Peter Strzok, Andy McCabe, James Comey and company. And then they, in the application, would be like, "Hey, it's not just us saying that Trump's a Russian asset," right? "Look at this article, Mr. Judge, on the federal FISA court." And they included it in that application. So this was a coordinated conspiracy to take down your political opponent by weaponizing government. And now, I say that now in 2025, when I said that in 2017, whatever it was, people were like, "You're out of your effing mind." And I was like, "Look, man, I'm just showing you the facts. I'm not making this up. I'm showing you the application. I'm showing you the documentation." And that's when they came after me, um, and it hasn't stopped ever since. But the- the damage they did, they, the media and the people that wanted to take out Trump... And I didn't care what you thought about... And remember, back then, I hadn't met Trump, never spoken to him, didn't know him. I took that job at Congress on one condition. I said, "Whatever we find, we're putting out."I'd been in for 16 years at that point. Democrats, Republicans. I was a national security guy, intel guy. That's what I wanted to do. Chase terrorists, chase bad guys, bring hostages home, and help protect the homeland. And I said, "I didn't know if Trump did this. I didn't know if he was colluding with whoever." I didn't know it would turn out like this.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sniffs)
- KPKash Patel
That they would actually manufacture and make it up. But half of America to this day still believes the narrative that the CNNs of the world pushed for five years. And if you look on their shows now, Russiagate keeps coming back up, because we keep exposing the documents that showed how bad these guys were. And most Americans are like, "No, no," they're already convinced. So, in order to fix that diseased temple, it is just that much harder of a lift for me to go back into the FBI. We're gonna get it done, but it takes so much more communication and so much more energy to get after the American people and say, "You were lied to." Because that's the hardest thing I think people can ever admit to themselves.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
"You were lied to." I went out for years and created a life cycle out of this lie of Russiagate. I went on TV, I made money, I wrote books. I sold political advertisements based on it. I, I educated my children based on it, because I thought it was the truth. And some of 'em have come back and said, "Yeah, we got it wrong," but most haven't. And that's the disinformation seed, in my opinion, that started it all. And then you could talk about things like January 6th or, you know, pick your poison, rescuing hostage or what have you. The media just never got on board. They kneecapped Trump from the beginning by participating in the Russiagate, uh, collusion conspiracy with the FBI.
- JRJoe Rogan
God, it's so crazy that someone could do something like that, and a whole enormous group of people could do something like that-
- KPKash Patel
Yeah.
- 27:48 – 35:56
Accountability limits: statutes of limitation, hidden records, and a ‘locked room’ of documents
- KPKash Patel
And that's what people want accountability for, and that's what... You asked me at the beginning of the show, "You know, what's the hardest part?" I'm like, "Hey, I'm the guy that is exposing and giving you the accountability from 2017 onwards, but I wasn't the guy in charge of putting people in prison and arresting them for this conduct." And so the other education campaign I have to go on is there's this thing called a statute of limitations. I can't prosecute people for their crimes in the past that the statute of limitations has run. And I'll give you a great example that goes back, right back to Russiagate. So, one of the big, uh, systems I've created, maybe because of my time in Russiagate, is I'm committed to Congressional oversight. I'm committed to giving Congress the documents they need to do their work and give them to the American people, unredacted, no classification BS. You want it, you get it. So we, we... Just think about this. Me, as the director of the FBI, the former Russiagate guy, when I first got to the Bureau, found a room that Comey and others hid from the world in the Hoover Building, full of documents and computer hard drives that no one had ever seen or heard of.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- KPKash Patel
Locked the key and hid access, and just said, "No one's ever gonna find this place."
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- KPKash Patel
Yeah. So my guys are going through that right now.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's in there?
- KPKash Patel
A lot of stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
I mean, that's the thing. People are like, "Well, okay, go arrest him." And I'm like, "Okay, well how about you let me run a methodical investigation while I give over information?" One of the things we gave over before this, uh, the, the room deal was, I don't know if you remember who Nellie Ohr is. It doesn't really matter. Nellie Ohr's husband, Bruce Ohr, was like the number four at the Department of Justice, and he was the one who introduced the world to Christopher Steele, the guy that started Russiagate. Well, the entire time her husband was doing that at DOJ, she, Nellie Ohr, was working on an outside contract to dig up dirt on Donald Trump. So she goes to The Hill and testifies as a result of our investigation, right, under oath. She said, "I never worked..." And I'm paraphrasing. "I never worked with my husband on any of that. I would never do that." Well, what did Grassley put out just yesterday? Two days ago? The Nellie Ohr documentation that the FBI hid to the world, that we gave them, where Nellie Ohr is caught red-handed providing information to her husband, thumb drives related to Trump-Russia collusion, directly proving that Nellie Ohr li- lied to Congress. Felony. Can't prosecute her. Statute of limitations is gone. That's just one example.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. What a dirty business.
- KPKash Patel
Yeah, ain't it? (sighs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Politics is just, it is just the dirtiest. And in this age of transparency, because of, you know, the internet and social media, uh, and independent news, like everybody knows about it now. Like if this, if the, if CNN and, you know, and all these left wing news sources, MSNBC, and it was only Fox on the right, and that was all we had, and we had no internet-
- KPKash Patel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... all this would be completely secret. No one would've known the, the Russiagate collusion, that, that, all that stuff would be...... people would really think it's a true story, it would probably take decades before someone wrote a book where people started to really take it seriously and really realize that there was something fucked up about it.
- KPKash Patel
Yeah. Um, I'm not allowed to plug my book, so I won't. But I did write a book about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
You can plug your book. Why can't you plug your book?
- KPKash Patel
I think there's some rules on it about government-
- JRJoe Rogan
I can plug your book. What's your book? Give it to me.
- KPKash Patel
Here you go. Ah, this one's for you anyway, Government Gangsters, bestseller.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Government Gangsters by Kash Patel. Go buy it.
- KPKash Patel
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Plugged.
- KPKash Patel
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You didn't plug it, I did.
- KPKash Patel
I love it. The-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you do the audio?
- KPKash Patel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You read it?
- KPKash Patel
Oh, I, I got somebody to, to do it. I, my voice is not for radio or TV.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah, come on man. You got a great voice.
- 35:56 – 41:01
Rebuilding trust and confronting conspiracy culture: swatting, transparency, and the Epstein dossier pressure
- KPKash Patel
Yeah. And my goal, now that I'm back in government, is to make sure this doesn't happen again ever. That's the goal.
- JRJoe Rogan
How can you do that? How can you make sure it doesn't happen again ever?
- KPKash Patel
Exposing it all. And I know there are people ... And look, (laughs) people keep calling me and saying, "When are you gonna arrest everyone? When are you gonna go out there and arrest everybody that did everything to Donald Trump?" I was like, "First of all, you guys were barking at people who were in the seat before me to do that, and they didn't. They failed." The difference between me and that guy is, one, I'm the guy that exposed it. Two, I didn't tell you this, I was the guy they targeted. So, while I was doing the Russiagate investigation, do you know what Trump's own DOJ, Rod Rosenstein, the Deputy Attorney General of the Department of Justice, Christopher Wray, then director of the FBI, did to me and a dozen other staffers who were working Russiagate? They subpoenaed all of our information while I was running the Russiagate investigation. We wouldn't find out for five years. You wanna know why? Because these guys were so vindictive, they went to the federal court and not only got a search warrant, they got a judge to say to all the telecom companies, Google, Facebook, everybody else, your banking companies, everybody, "Do not tell them for five years that we authorized this subpoena."So, I just found that out last year.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- KPKash Patel
This is how hard... This is what I'm trying to show. It's not a Republican and Dem- or Democratic thing, right? It's an all-hands-on approach to protect the leadership that was so corrupt, to protect themselves and their actions and their friends. My mission is to educate the world that this happened. And as director of the FBI, I have a responsibility. I'm not just going to bring a case because somebody hurt me. They did, and they continue to do it. Shit, my house just got swatted yesterday.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- KPKash Patel
Yeah. But-
- JRJoe Rogan
You got swatted?
- KPKash Patel
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The head of the FBI gets swatted?
- KPKash Patel
Yeah. Yeah. These people play... It's- it's the ultimate height of hypocrisy. They have two sets of rules: one against you, and one for them. And what I want to do is lay out that entire body of work for the American people with Congress, and I'm doing it with guys like, uh, Grassley and Jordan and Kennedy and Rand Paul on COVID-19. And we can talk about the origins. We actually have some pretty cool developments on that front. And let the American people know that my mission has always been to put out the truth, whatever the consequences are, whoever it's against, like I did when I signed up for Russia Gate. If Donald Trump was a Russian asset and I proved it, I was telling the world that. That's what matters. And if we can hold people accountable in terms of indictments, then we'll work with our partners at DOJ. But what I'm asking people is, don't trust me. I don't care about that. Look at what I have done and what we have done. That's the guy that's now in charge of the FBI. His leadership team is in place. We've got great partners at DOJ. We're the ones working all in all this stuff. And, and look, let's just, let's just get to it because I know it's on people's minds. Epstein, right? The reason people are pissed off about that is the same, same thing, right? 20 years ago, or whenever it was, 2006, '7, '8, Epstein gets his sweetheart plea deal, right-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
... after committing the most horrific cli- crimes on planet Earth. Right? I wasn't in, I wasn't in power there. I wasn't in place there. I had, you know, nothing to do with it. But people were rightfully pissed. I mean, this guy was committing the most grotesque as- acts you can against children. And the media spins up about it. Many in the media protected him. Why? Because of his relationships, who he knew, who his bankers were, who his colleagues were, who was on the island and stuff like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
Some pretty powerful human beings. And so when you peel back the- the layer, and then you... And then what happened? The Trump administration, the last go-round, decided, "No, no. We're not gonna let that go. We're gonna investigate him." Right? They charge him, they indict him, and he's awaiting trial. And I've said it, Dan Bongino said it, we've reviewed all the information, and the American public is gonna get as much as we can release. He killed himself. Do you think... Let's play out the logical conclusion to this. Do you think that myself, Bongino, and others would participate in hiding information about Epstein's grotesque activities, or do you think we would also participate in not prosecuting people we had evidence to prosecute people on? The problem is, there's been like 15 years of people coming in and creating fictions about this that doesn't exist. Where's the videotape of an Epstein island of X, Y, and Z committing these frauds? Why haven't you given it to us? Do you really think I wouldn't give that to you if it existed? I'm working my ass off, along with the leadership at the Bureau and DOJ, to get you what we're allowed to give you. And you're gonna get the video of the cell, and you're gonna see for yourself. And we will never be able to convince everyone.
- 41:01 – 1:03:30
Epstein’s death: suicide vs homicide, missing CCTV narratives, and what footage will be released
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. Let's, let's get into that. So, what did you think before you got into office? Did you think that Epstein was murdered?
- KPKash Patel
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
No suspicion at all that-
- KPKash Patel
But I have a different background, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
So, I was a public defender back in the day. I used to spend a lot of time in jails and a lot of time in segregated housing units. SHUs, as we call them, right? And so, um, and I've known people that have committed suicide in these cells. And I know how you get in, how you get out, who works the system. And so the way, based on public information at the time, that he ended up port-... The pictures and him hanging himself, I was like, "Man, that guy killed himself." It's- There's just no way that you could have run an op and had people go into that cell and not have any video of it and not have any people come out and say, "Hey, yeah. I saw that guy. He shouldn't have been there, the guard or this guy." There's just no access points into places like this in the detention center he was in, which I've been in.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but what I was told, what I'd read, was that the guards were not paying attention or were sleeping.
- KPKash Patel
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right?
- KPKash Patel
Yeah. And in short order, you'll see it. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that, is that correct?
- KPKash Patel
Well, it's hard to surmise that from a video, right? Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right?
- KPKash Patel
... where they like... You know. And look, do guards doze off on the night shift? Yeah. But no one can get in to the cell. And if they had gotten in to the cell, you would see it.
- JRJoe Rogan
But we were told that the cameras were down.
- KPKash Patel
Well, I don't know who said that. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
But that was, that was in the news.
- KPKash Patel
Um, we're giving you all the footage we have.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, why wasn't that released, like, immediately? Why, why did this speculation escalate?
- KPKash Patel
I think you'd have to ask, uh, who ever the Attorney General back then was, Bill Barr.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you ever see... Do you remember that HBO autopsy show? Dr. Michael Baden? He's a famous forensic-
- KPKash Patel
I don't think I've seen that.
- JRJoe Rogan
... scientist. So, uh, he's a pathologist, and he reviewed the case, and it was his determination that it was a homicide because of the way his neck was broken.
- KPKash Patel
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what he said was it was indicative of a ligature strangulation, and it was because of the positioning on the neck where the marks were, that it wasn't indicative of someone hanging by their weight, which would have been higher on the chin. And there's a specific break of the bones and the vertebrae that's consistent with someone who is just strangled to death.
- KPKash Patel
Mm-hmm.I, I haven't seen it. I'll definitely take a look at it, 'cause that's part of my job. But-
- JRJoe Rogan
You haven't seen that?
- KPKash Patel
The report on that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
No, I haven't looked at that. Uh- (clears throat)
- 1:03:30 – 1:08:29
Operational results and priorities: homicide decline, mass arrests, and ‘let cops be cops’
- KPKash Patel
Yeah. You, you know, and there's just things that, like, I see that you would think I would have more uproar, even as, as much time I've been doing this that don't, and things that wouldn't have, that my mind would be like, "No one's gonna pay attention," and people are like, "Oh my God." And so that's part of the learning curve for me too. You know, like trying to figure out what the balance is. You know, should I be giving this so much attention, so much resources? But then when I have to call a parent because their kid's dead from fentanyl, or when I have to call a cop's family, and I call every single line of duty death that we have in this country. I call everyone's chief and I call their families. And I'm glad that the numbers are going down in terms of how many have been killed this year versus last year.
- JRJoe Rogan
How much have the numbers gone down?
- KPKash Patel
Um, by over 15% so far. But I want to be at zero.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
You know, that's where my focus needs to be.
- JRJoe Rogan
15% in 100 days is-
- KPKash Patel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... still-
- KPKash Patel
You know.
- JRJoe Rogan
... pretty good.
- KPKash Patel
Give or take a couple points.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
Um, and that's where my focus, that's where the FBI's focus needs to be. I, these guys are on the line. We're doing all these raids across the country in Homeland Security Task Force. We're, we just hit a 10,000 mark. We just ar- we just arrested over 10,000 people in the 100 and change days that we've been doing this with DHS. Huge, right? On illegals and, and whatnot. We also just, like, this is great. This, this piece of information has actually made me happy. We are on track to have the lowest homicide rate ever. Murder rate, excuse me. Murder rate ever.
- JRJoe Rogan
In the country?
- KPKash Patel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- KPKash Patel
We're already ... And look, we got six more months to go, so we're not done yet for the year, but we're already down 20% from last year, and we broke it this week that right now, the murder rate, if we, the FBI and our government partners achieve the mission, we'll give the American people the lowest murder rate in decades.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's incredible.
- KPKash Patel
And that's what I'm focused on.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, uh, what, what steps have been made to do that? Like what, how did that become real?
- KPKash Patel
So I think, and I, and I've worked with cops and law enforcement a lot in the past, and you have too. They're, they're awesome. They, all they wanted to do was do the work. Once President Trump got elected and before I even got the nomination, right? And excuse me, when I was traveling country with, with him before, before that, they were like, "Take the handcuffs off, off of us. Let us go do our jobs." And that's where I came up with, like, good cops, be cops. I said, "If I'm gonna get this job, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna let you, the agents, the police officers, the sheriffs go out there and do the work you so badly want to do, and I'm gonna give you the resources you need to do it. And I'm gonna take away the politicization and weaponization saying, 'Oh, we can't target this group or this thing or this area.'" And that's it. That's what we've done. Everywhere I go, I, I speak to cops across this country constantly, and it's a humbling message that I receive back every time I talk to them. They are like ... And it's not me, it's the president's administration and our entire government that's doing it. They're like, "Thank you for letting us do the work." We want to chase child predators. We want to bust up MS-13. I mean, look at the victories we've had for the American people. In the first two months, the FBI arrested three, not one, not two, but three of the world's most top 10 wanted fugitives. Three. One of them happened to be the guy that was the Abbey Gate bomber.
- JRJoe Rogan
What was the Abbey Gate bomber?
- KPKash Patel
The, um, terrorist that blew up 13 US soldiers in the Afghan withdrawal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- KPKash Patel
I did it with my inter-agency partners in a week. In a week, we found that guy, went to Pakistan, brought him back here. Now, there's others responsible for it, and we're, we're chasing them down too. But the question the American people should be asking is, why didn't the prior administration, putting aside the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, a plan that they completely politicized. We handed off them a proper way to do it and methodical way to do it, and they just said, "FU, we're doing it this way." And you saw the videos and you saw people-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KPKash Patel
... plunging from our, from our aircrafts, and you saw Abbey Gate.... and 13 Americans dead. Why didn't anyone go get justice for those families? Well, that's the priority that the president said. "We're gonna go find him." And we let good cops be cops, we let federal agents be agents, we let our intel community focus intelligence collection on terrorists, and we went and got that guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so hard to believe that it's really that simple, that it's just they weren't given the resources and they weren't given the support-
- KPKash Patel
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
... to let cops be cops, and that they could have done this all along.
- 1:08:29 – 1:18:11
Border and terrorism screening: KSTs, sanctuary-city friction, and tribal lands focus
- KPKash Patel
Well, you have to look at the landscape of the last, I don't know, four, eight, 12 years, call it, right? (clears throat) It was an intentional decision, and this isn't politics, it was just an intentional decision to say, "We're gonna let all these people into our country and let them stay." The result of that is... You know, this is another part of the lift that we're doing at the Bureau. We call them KSTs, known or suspected terrorists. They get, uh, pinged at the border, the northern border and the southern border, and then the last administration said, "You guys can come in." And then one of the most terrifying things I heard was, my predecessor, Christopher Wray, went to Congress a year or two ago and said, "Well, the last year's annual statistics for known KSTs was, um, a few dozen, and we don't know where they are in America." "What do you mean you don't know where they are? How is that not a national security crisis?" And so what we're doing while we're doing these raids and chasing down illegals is trying to target those with terrorist affiliations, those who are terrorists, those who are in our homeland, because the last administration let them be here. And that's... You can say I'm being political, I don't really care, but that's me being the FBI director and saying, "Americans come first," and we're protecting our own, and we're chasing them down. And DHS is doing a great job, and, and so is our intelligence community, and so are the local police, uh, departments who are now working with us and not living in sanctuary cities and allowing police stations to be burnt to the ground. Working with us and not having law enforcement attacked constantly for just doing the job of protecting the American people. I think that's a tectonic shift in the mentality of what this administration has brought in. Now, people are still vilifying us for doing that. "How dare you separate families?" they'll say, and I'm like, "How dare you separate a mom from a kid on a fentanyl overdose? How dare you separate an American soldier's mom or dad from the guy that got blown up at Abbey Gate?" I have different priorities. I have a different view of it. And so that's the ethos I'm bringing to the Bureau.
- JRJoe Rogan
I appreciate everything you guys are doing. I just, I, I'm baffled to try to come up with any kind of an explanation why anybody would let known or suspected terrorists-
- KPKash Patel
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... into the country and just let them loose. I mean, it, when, when you... I mean, I know you can't speculate, but when you take office and you realize all this is going on, like what, what is going through your mind? Like, how are you processing this? Like, is this pure incompetence? Is this malice? Is this, is this a foolhardy adherence to ideology and just completely ignore the danger that they're putting the American people in by doing this?
- KPKash Patel
(sighs) It's... I think it... No, it's intentional. The intentional decision was (clears throat) when you're going to let in, what is it, nine million people? (clears throat) A lot of them are going to be criminals. A lot of them are going to be TDA. You saw what they did in Colorado. A lot of them are gonna be MS-13. A lot of them are gonna be narco-traffickers, which when you ent- when you allow narco-traffickers in the country, you're automatically bringing sex trades trafficking, human trafficking, and drug trafficking, automatically. And the drug traffickers have partnered with the terrorist organizations and our adversaries. We haven't even talked about Russia and the CCP and how they've combined forces over the last however many years to infiltrate America, not just with people, but our cyber capabilities and our infrastructure. And so when I come into a job like this (clears throat) , patience is one of the hardest things you have to manage, because you can't fix everything overnight. You have to build up the workforce, you have to get them the resources, you have to fix the infrastructure that's broken. I mean, I'll just give you a quick example. The building that the FBI ha- calls headquarters, the Hoover Building, is like 70 years old. I literally have netting, mesh netting, holding up the side of the building because pieces of concrete fall off of it-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
... so it doesn't hit people in the head.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
I'm not kidding. I'm dead serious.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KPKash Patel
So I said, "How about we give the workforce a safe place to work?" So we're moving out of there. And people think it's a political decision, "Oh, Kash Patel's taking the FBI out of the historic Hoover Building." Yeah, 'cause I don't want people to die, and I think they deserve a better workplace than something that's 70 years old that has pipes exploding literally every single week, every week. And also, we're gonna save the taxpayer money. We're gonna get out of a building that would cost billions to fix, and we're gonna move into a location that's already built instead of a 15-year government boondoggle, an hour outside of DC, and we're gonna stay in DC, we're gonna stay near our partners in government. And we're gonna put out the workforce and spread them out across the country, like I talked to you about earlier, and put more agents on the streets, and put more agents in Indian country, and put more agents in your communities as intel analysts to figure out where the crime is. But that, all of that takes time. I can't do it overnight, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Why do you say Indian country? Like what, what about-
- KPKash Patel
Tribal lands.
- JRJoe Rogan
But what about tribal lands is problematic?
- KPKash Patel
Oh, man. So this... You're, uh... Thank you so much for bringing this up. It's one of my biggest priorities. So the, the tribal... And I just met with, um-... almost all of the- the- the chiefs and the leaders of the tribal communities in America. (clears throat) The crimes they have committed on- on- on what we call Indian country is just as horrific, if not worse, than the rest of America. Look up the story about Emily Pike, whose family is still waiting for her arms. This child was murdered on a reservation, and they found a piece of her body, and not the murderer, and not the rest of her body. They are plagued by drugs, and they have never been a priority, um, in terms of law enforcement working together. And- and now remember, you're talking about two different sets of legal, uh, structures, right? They have-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
... their own and we have our own. But what I've asked of them, and what they've asked of me is, "Pay more attention, give us more resources." And what I've asked of them is said, "Hey," all the leaders said, "Let my guys on. Let my guys come to you, and let's work together on solving some of these horrific, horrific crimes." The tr- the trafficking, the murders, and the violent crime on Indian reservations is- is skyrocketing. And I'm not going to treat people who live in the United States of America differently because they have a different way of life. We're gonna help them. And we put out Operation Not Forgotten where we re- we deployed, this- this month and this summer, um, I can't remember how many agents and intel analysts, specifically to remote tribal locations to solve crimes that have not been solved for years, specifically the most violent, and we're gonna double down on that. And as Bongino likes to say, "This summer, we are unleashing a massive operation across the country." Um, as Dan calls it, it's a, uh, it's a bad day to be a bad guy this summer, because the FBI is putting out all these extra agents and personnel into the field, and we're gonna come find you. If you think you can nest in our communities and- and find safe haven, you're going to prison.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's great to hear. So when- w- what is the- when you guys sit around, you think about the motivation to let all these people into the country-
- KPKash Patel
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, again, you- you kind- you're kind of speculating, but why do you think they allowed it? Why do you think they allowed the border to be wide open like that?
- KPKash Patel
You know, in my job now, that's, like, one of those political decisions, and so I try to stay out of that. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
But how is that political to leave the border, like, to-
- KPKash Patel
I don't- I-
- JRJoe Rogan
How is a national security issue political?
- KPKash Patel
So that's just it. From my perspective, it's a national security decision, and they failed on the national security mission. But I think where the decision from that administration to do that was a political one. That's what I'm trying to sort of separate. I've always viewed it singularly, protecting the border, preventing drugs from coming in, preventing terrorists-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KPKash Patel
... from coming in, preventing people from-
- JRJoe Rogan
But what- what political decision could be made that makes any sense at all to not do that?
- KPKash Patel
I don't think there is one, but unfortunately, they did it anyway.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you think it was just that Biden was just not there, and everyone else that was really running things was completely incompetent, was focused on other things, was focused on maybe the optics of border protection, that it, you know, that somehow or another, there was some negative connotation to it politically?
Episode duration: 1:58:15
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode C81bFx8CSA8
