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Joe Rogan Experience #2335 - Dr. Mary Talley Bowden

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden is a board-certified Otolaryngologist, Sleep Medicine specialist, and founder of BreatheMD: a direct-care ENT practice in Houston, Texas. In addition, she is a senior fellow with the Independent Medical Alliance (formerly FLCCC), the founder of Americans for Health Freedom, and also serves on the board of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation. https://⁠www.breathemd.org⁠ ⁠https://posthillpress.com/book/dangerous-misinformation-the-virus-the-treatments-and-the-lies

Joe RoganhostDr. Mary Talley Bowdenguest
Jun 10, 20252h 51mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:11

    Why revisit COVID now: preventing the next policy failure

    1. JR

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    2. NA

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music)

    3. JR

      All right. Very nice to meet you.

    4. MB

      Nice to meet you.

    5. JR

      I have, uh, I saw you on the Danny Jones podcast, and, uh, I've, uh, read a lot of your tweets and Twitter, and, uh, just the, the entire ordeal that you've been through since, uh, the beginning of COVID, and so I felt like it would be very educational for people to, uh, hear your perspective.

    6. MB

      Well, I appreciate you continuing to talk about COVID 'cause, uh, I think a lot of people are sick of it. I'm certainly ready to move on, but...

    7. JR

      I am too, but...

    8. MB

      (laughs) We've got...

    9. JR

      It's just people need to make sure this doesn't happen again.

    10. MB

      Exactly.

    11. JR

      You know?

    12. MB

      And nothing's happened really. Nothing's been corrected.

    13. JR

      No. Not only has nothing been corrected, I was just watching an argument on television where they were trying to argue for, uh, vaccinating women who are pregnant.

    14. MB

      Oh, right.

    15. JR

      It's like...

    16. MB

      It's insane. I mean, there's a, there's a golden rule of pregnancy, right? You don't, you don't experiment on pregnant women. You don't experiment on an unborn child.

    17. JR

      You're not even supposed to eat sushi.

    18. MB

      Exactly. Right. But we're gonna put this modified mRNA technology into these women who, you know, early treatment, we have early treatment. COVID is no longer a threat. We're dealing, you know, at one point it was more than a cold, but not now. Why, why in the world would we give them to pregnant women or children? Or-

    19. JR

      The only thing that makes sense is money.

    20. MB

      Right. Well, and ego.

    21. JR

      It's the only thing that makes sense.

    22. MB

      And ego and...

    23. JR

      Ego meaning because they've already recommended it 'cause they don't want to admit that it's not effective. They don't want to admit there are side effects.

    24. MB

      I mean, we have, we have hard facts showing it should be pulled off the market. I mean, any other product would've been pulled a long time ago. If this were an antibiotic and we'd seen all the, the carnage from an antibiotic, it would've been yanked off long ago. It should've been yanked off in the first month. Um, there just, there's no other explanation than there's just, there's fraud, there's corruption, there's ego, there's money. Um, but it's not science.

    25. JR

      No. And there's a lot of people that, uh, for whatever reason, they have this very rigid ideology that the pharmaceutical drug companies are to be trusted, and we should trust the science and that all these organizations, whether it's the FDA or wha- whatever it is that's connected to these assertions, they should be trusted, not just the average doctor who's talking about these side effects and all these different things that they're experiencing with their, their patients.

    26. MB

      Yeah. I mean, I trusted them. When, when the pandemic started, I mean, I didn't think that the shots would work necessarily, but I trusted them. I didn't think they were going to hurt us.

    27. JR

      Why didn't you think they would work?

    28. MB

      Because they were rushed to the market. I knew the flu shots were already iffy. We're dealing with a virus that mutates. We've never been able to vaccinate against a cold, which, you know, it's a rapidly mutating virus. It's, it's, it's been tried before and they've, it's failed.

  2. 3:11 – 4:23

    Bowden’s medical background and how she got pulled into the COVID fight

    1. JR

      If you don't mind, please t- tell everybody what your background is in, in medicine.

    2. MB

      Uh, yeah, private practice, solo physician. I'm not head of the Mayo Clinic. I'm just a, you know, neighborhood ear, nose, and throat doctor that sort of got tangled up in this inadvertently. And I always thought when, when the pandemic started, I thought, "Well, this will be the hospital. This will be a chaos in the hospitals." I never envisioned getting wrapped up in this at all. Um, I, you know, I trained at Stanford, and then I, I moved to Texas after residency. Um, and then I, I worked in a small private practice for seven, eight years. Then I started having a bunch of children, and I pretty much gave up medicine, and I took a seven-year sabbatical. I wasn't even sure I was gonna go back. Um, but then I just had this itch that needed to be scratched, and I opened up a solo practice six months before the pandemic started.

    3. JR

      Oh, boy.

    4. MB

      Yeah. (laughs)

    5. JR

      What timing.

    6. MB

      I know. Why? Why did I do it? (laughs)

    7. JR

      (laughs) You could've been out.

    8. MB

      I know. (laughs)

    9. JR

      Yeah. Well, sometimes the universe has a calling for people, you know?

    10. MB

      (sighs) It's been a very interesting journey. I mean...

  3. 4:23 – 6:33

    Early pandemic reality in clinic: symptom-based care and rapid saliva testing

    1. JR

      So take us through what happened with you at the very beginning. Like, so COVID, COVID starts making its way across the world.

    2. MB

      Yeah. So I had people coming in with respiratory tract infections that were stubborn. They were not, you know, the typical colds. And, uh, there was all this, you know, news that there's this virus from China, but, you know, you watch something on the news, you think, "Oh, you know, that's not gonna really affect me." Um, but, you know, I started having more and more patients coming in, and at first I really didn't know what to do. I just used common sense, and I treated the symptoms. I used breathing treatments. I, I covered for secondary infection with antibiotics. Uh, I used steroids, that sort of thing. And I had success, but I didn't have a lot of people, you know, showing up at my doorstep treating me for COVID. But I did start having people wanting to get tested. And you might remember that Labcorp was the first lab in the country to offer the test, and they just got completely slammed. So it took two weeks to get the results back. We were already work... I was already working with a lab for patients with chronic sinusitis who they were doing, uh, PCR testing for chronic sinusitis, so tests for bacterial and fungal infections of the sinuses. It's called MicroGenDx. And they came out with a saliva test for COVID, so i- i- and we were able to get the results back the next day. So I started offering that, and my little clinic exploded because... And I'm located in a strip mall, which is, is very purposeful. I'm, I'm very close to the medical center, which is, you know, to get to your doctor's office, it's a, a 10-minute, um, navigation of the parking garage and another 10-minute walk to the office. And so I was trying to locate my office where it was very easy to get in and out of. And then that served me very well during the pandemic because with these saliva tests, you could just take the cup to somebody's car. They could spit in the cup. They could leave it outside. It was contact-free. You didn't have anything shoved up your nose.... and then we got the results back the next day, and so that sort of made me, put me on the map, um, in my little neighborhood. And then I started tracking, um, you know, who ... When the vaccines came out, I started tracking who was positive,

  4. 6:33 – 6:55

    Tracking breakthrough infections and expanding access to monoclonal antibodies

    1. MB

      you know, by their vaccination status. And so I started noticing that the vaccine wasn't working, and that's sort of what got me in trouble. Um, I also started giving, uh, monoclonal antibodies, and I didn't ration them, so I became known in town as a place you could get monoclonal antibodies without, you know, having to pass, you know, being a certain race or a certain age or-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. MB

      ... that sort of thing.

  5. 6:55 – 9:52

    The squeeze on treatments: monoclonals restricted, ivermectin attacked, mandates begin

    1. JR

      What, what do you think that was all about?

    2. MB

      Yeah. I, I don't know. The monoclonal antibodies is very frustrating to me. They worked very well. They were not controversial. People would turn around the next day. Um, but i- th- when they first came out, I could get as many doses as I wanted. I mean, they'd show up at my doorstep the next day, um, and it was great. I mean, that's, that, that also sort of put me on the map with COVID, and then I didn't even use ivermectin until the government took over distribution of monoclonal antibodies, and then it became harder and harder to get them, and that's when I turned to ivermectin. But, you know, in my opinion, they did that on purpose. They, they did that to encourage people to take the s- the COVID shot. Uh, it was very orchestrated. If you look at the timing, the, um ... You know, in March, uh, the government put out the big, um, information on ivermectin and why you should not take it for COVID. They put that on the FDA's website. Um, at the same time, they launched COVID-19 Community Corps, and this was April 1st, 2021. This was an $11.5 billion slush fund to propaganda, to in- you know, feed out propaganda and censor people. And the day that they launched the COVID-19 Community Corps was the same day that Houston Methodist, which is where I had privileges, they, uh, mandated the COVID shots for all their employees, and they were the first in the country. And that's sort of how I got tangled up in all this, because I had privileges there, and then I ... I was actually working with them, I was doing research with them, I was sharing my data with them to try to get it published, but then I started questioning, you know, the, the, the vaccine and how it wasn't working. I brought it to their attention first, and they gaslit me. They just said, "Well, it just ... it lowers severity." Um, and when they, when they ignored me, then I started speaking out on social media, and that's how ... that's what got me in trouble. But ... So that summer, um, 2021, that's when the third and the largest surge of the pandemic started. And this was after the rollout of the wonderful COVID shots, which were promised to stop transmission and prevent death and obviously didn't. Um, and the government was getting frustrated, so they doubled down on their ivermectin attack, and this was end of August 2021. They put out the infamous horse tweet. Said, "Seriously, y'all. You're not a horse. You're not a cow. Stop it." The tweet went viral. It had dire consequences, in my opinion. And then, uh, they approved, they fully approved the COVID shot, and then Biden mandated for, um, for employers with 100 or more employees, and that was right when they took you down.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. MB

      So it was all very coordinated. Oh, and then, and then, uh, the, the final straw was taking away monoclonal antibodies. They said that.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. MB

      So ...

  6. 9:52 – 10:31

    Rogan’s ivermectin media storm: selective focus, propaganda tactics, and trust collapse

    1. JR

      Yeah. That was ... The more fascinating thing about it to me is that I listed a bunch of different things that I took, uh, including monoclonal antibodies, but they only concentrated on ivermectin.

    2. MB

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      But y- the, the way they did it was, like, so transparent, like changing the color of my face on CNN and everywhere, this concerted effort to call it horse dewormer. It was a ... They ju- tried to make it look as preposterous as possible without ever explaining that it's been used s- w- more than m- m- multiple billions of times, prescribed to human beings.

    4. MB

      Yeah. I mean, they, they branded you. When I think of you, I think of that, that picture of you-

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. MB

      ... where you're slightly green.

    7. JR

      (laughs)

  7. 10:31 – 29:25

    How Bowden decided ivermectin was safe and useful—and her early-treatment results

    1. MB

      (laughs) And I ... Honestly, uh, and, uh ... Yeah, but ivermectin, I was nervous about using it because of all the hype.

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. MB

      Um, and because monoclonal work on a- ... Because monoclonals worked so well, I was like, "Well, this is not gonna li- you know, this is not gonna work." I was nervous. Um, but the first thing I did was dug into the safety, and anybody could do that with just a minimal amount of effort. You can go to the FDA website, and you can find the toxicity data on ivermectin. And there's something called the LD50, lethal dose 50, which is ... It's a benchmark number that gives you an idea of how toxic a medication is. And LD50 means, um, w- h- how many animal ... 50 p- what dose would kill 50% of lab animals? So for ivermectin, it kind of depends on the rat, the ... I mean the type of animal and the gender, um, but it's basically 10 milligrams per kilogram up to 80 milligrams per kilogram. So for COVID, we're using .4 milligrams per kilogram. So I, I knew that we were not worried about, you know, killing people with it, and then you ... I did a literature search, and I looked for accidental intentional overdoses for ivermectin, and I couldn't find a single study. Whereas you do that for Tylenol, I mean, thousands.

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. MB

      Thousands of reports. So once I knew it was safe, then I started using it, and then I found it worked. And then, yeah, all in all, I treated well over 6,000 patients, and everybody that got early treatment stayed out of the hospital. Um, I also had patients come in that were really sick in the second week, and that, that was such a learning experience for me, because, you know, normally, if somebody walked into my office with an oxygen sta- saturation in the low 80s, I would call an ambulance. Um, but I had patients who would ... refusing to go to the hospital, um, and I had to give them the option to possibly die in my office.... uh, which is scary. Um, but we saved him. I mean, we- we just s- threw the kitchen sink at him. And we didn't have monoclonal antibodies. So, we did... We brought him in every day. We did IV steroids, we did IV antibiotics. We gave him home oxygen. We gave him a high dose of ivermectin. We did everything we could, and it was amazing. I mean, they survived. It was, uh, very gratifying.

    6. JR

      So, you think it was probably a combination of all the different medications and all the different treatments?

    7. MB

      You know, I- I would vary my approach depending on the severity, the comorbidities. I mean, it's- it's an art, not a... You know, a protocol-

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. MB

      ... is a guideline. Right? But every patient is sort of individual. And so, for the patients, you know... The one patient I'm thinking of, I mean, he had history of two heart attacks. He had a history of throat cancer.

    10. JR

      Oof.

    11. MB

      He- he came in with an oxygen level... Uh, uh, it was below 80. I can't remember what exactly what it was. But I mean, so I just did everything. You know, I took everything that I could and- and gave it to him, and it worked. Um, but... And I had a few people like that. But, you know, the... If a, you know, a 20-year-old came in, I'd probably just give them some ivermectin and, you know. It just depends.

    12. JR

      Why did you decide to try ivermectin even though there was all this negative propaganda?

    13. MB

      Well, because I had patients coming to see me who needed help. I mean, I just wasn't going to shut my door. I'd already established that I could help people with monoclonal antibodies, so I still had people coming to me seeking help. And I just didn't have the heart to say no, and I knew it was safe. So, I- I knew that, you know, it was a little bit iffy, but I knew it was safe. And there was good data showing it worked. It's just, you know, one thing, you can find, uh, a study to support any argument you want in medicine. I learned that in residency. All residents learn that. We have- we have something called Journal Club where you sit down once a week and you pore through different articles. And the takeaway is most articles are, you know, crap. They're not... They're not... They're low power or they're- they're, um, conflicts of interest or... You know, they're not...

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. MB

      They're designed poorly. So, you know, my mindset coming into the pandemic was, you know, the- the research, the journals are- are a starting point, but it's not... The final say is w- your- your own clinical experience and what you're seeing. And, you know, we had never seen COVID before. This was a brand new entity. Um, so we were learning on the fly. But, you know, I've never treated this many patients with a single disease in my career. I'm- I'm sure I never will again. And so, you quickly become an expert. And, you know, doctor... Uh, uh, I can't speak for all doctors, but we like to do well. We like our patients to get better. It's gratifying. That's how, sort of how you get job satisfaction, is seeing your patients do well. So, why would I, you know, continue to have tr- you know, COVID patients come in if I couldn't help them? Um, and it's astounding to me that the doctors in the hospitals just didn't pivot, didn't try new things. And I guess they were handcuffed by, you know, the hospital administrators. But it just seems to me that, um... You know, there was a- a doctor in- in Houston, Joe Varon, who I'm pretty good friends with, who... A critical care doctor, and he was one of the founders of FLCCC, which is sort of the... They developed the original protocols for ivermectin. And Dr. Varon had much better success than most other doctors. His overall success rate was 4.4% of his patients died, whereas in other hospitals, it averaged around 20%. And he did, he threw the kitchen sink at them, at people. And he- he basically followed this FLCCC hospital protocol.

    16. JR

      So, when the monoclonal antibodies were suppressed, what- what was the messaging? Like, what did they say to doctors?

    17. MB

      They said that the- the strain of the virus was no longer covered, so that it had evolved and it wouldn't work. But they-

    18. JR

      At the same time, they're using the exact same vaccine.

    19. MB

      (laughs) Exactly. And they had switched-

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. MB

      ... the monoclonal antibodies periodically. So, it wasn't like they started with one and stuck with it, say, the whole time. They switched it as things evolved. But they-

    22. JR

      It was really clear. And it... The propaganda was shocking, because y-... We've all seen propaganda. We've... With foreign conflicts, weapons of mass destruction, all that jazz. We've all seen propaganda. But when Rolling Stone magazine printed an article saying that people were... The hospitals were overflowing with people overdosing on ivermectin and gunshot victims couldn't get in, and then they used a stock photo which was of a bunch of people wearing winter coats in like... I think it was... I think the article was August.

    23. MB

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JR

      In Oklahoma.

    25. MB

      (laughs)

    26. JR

      Like, the whole thing was so... It was so brazen and sloppy and obvious, especially w-... In the age of Google. If this had all gone down in the 1980s, we would all be in the dark.

    27. MB

      Mm-hmm.

    28. JR

      We'd have no idea. We would have went like, "Well, I guess I... The ivermectin's killing people."

    29. MB

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JR

      You know, you... We wouldn't have known until like 2030, you know. People would have like... And you would have been a conspiracy theorist. You'd have been a crazy person, like one of those people that could tell you all the facts about the Kennedy assassination-

  8. 29:25 – 1:13:54

    FDA lawsuit and the lingering stigma: rebranding ivermectin and OTC efforts

    1. MB

      Yeah, and, uh, I actually sued the FDA over that horse tweet, and we won. Um, it hasn't really changed anything, but... So the FDA, when they put that information or misinformation out against ivermectin, they were really crossing a line 'cause they're not allowed to tell the public, "You can't take a medication for this," or, "You should take a medication for that." They're basically allowed to just approve medications and move on. I mean, they can issue a safety alert if there's something that comes up, um, but they're not allowed to really direct patients, and that's what they did. Um, and so we did sue them and we won, and they had to take down the horse tweet and they had to take down the misinformation on their website. But unfortunately, as you know, evidenced by what just happened on Vanity Fair, I mean, the brand of it being only for animals still lives on. And, you know, it'd be great-

    2. JR

      What happened at Vanity Fair?

    3. MB

      So the reporter still used the term "horse dewormer."

    4. JR

      Oh, with the recent article, you mean?

    5. MB

      Right, right.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. MB

      Uh-

    8. JR

      Wild.

    9. MB

      Right.

    10. JR

      Wild. You're- you're still vi- able to give a horse dewormer at a push here, in 2025.

    11. MB

      Right, right.

    12. JR

      When Chris Cuomo is out there talking about how he's taking it for long COVID.

    13. MB

      Right, right.... but we would, it would be great if the FDA could issue some sort of statement-

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. MB

      ... you know, saying that it is safe, that it is used in humans. They don't have to say much more than that, but, you know, we could use a little help in rebranding ivermectin. And there are also a bunch of states that are trying to make it over-the-counter. I'm not sure if you've seen that, but-

    16. JR

      Yes, I have.

    17. MB

      Seventeen states have had bills in the last legislative session trying to get ivermectin over-the-counter. Three have been successful, so Tennessee, Idaho, and Arkansas. Four, they're, it's still in deliberations. And ten, they've failed. Um, but another thing the FDA, I believe, should do is make ivermectin over-the-counter, because people are basically going to the feed store. I mean, my, my own kid, he had some sort of scabies situation, um, in West Texas over the weekend. He had to go to the feed store to get treatment. Um, and I, yeah, I did a poll on Twitter. 52% of the respondents said they go to the feed store to get their ivermectin. I mean, it's just-

    18. JR

      Is there any difference in the ivermectin from the feed store?

    19. MB

      I don't know. I mean, I haven't heard of anybody having issues. But it's just unnecessary. This is America.

    20. JR

      It's crazy.

    21. MB

      We should be able to get the medication very easily.

    22. JR

      And there is some sort of an efficacy for some sort of skin infections, is that true?

    23. MB

      Scabies is, is one of them, yeah.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. MB

      And they use it-

    26. JR

      So, but you use it topically? Is that how it's were, used?

    27. MB

      You can. I mean, for hi- for scabies, actually, you can take it orally.

    28. JR

      Okay.

    29. MB

      Um, but yeah. So, we shouldn't have to go to India. We shouldn't have to go to the feed store. We should be able to just go to, I mean, in Mexico you can get-

    30. JR

      The guy from India, he still emails me.

  9. 52:16 – 57:50

    Vaccine injury in the clinic: antibody patterns, lack of codes, and inadequate compensation

    1. MB

      Well, yeah, I've been looking at antibody levels in these people, and it's, it's alarming. So we have an an-... We really don't have a lot of tests for vaccine-injured, um, it's, it's hard because they'll get the million-dollar workup. By the time they come to see me, you know, they've, they've gone through, you know, multiple tests, they have multiple doctors.

    2. JR

      It's not really a million dollars, is it, the workup?

    3. MB

      Well, I don't know, but I'm-

    4. JR

      It's a lot.

    5. MB

      ... I'm exaggerating.

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. MB

      But, you know, they get-

    8. JR

      I just wanna be clear. (laughs)

    9. MB

      (laughs) I don't... It could be.

    10. JR

      Because then that person from Vanity Fair comes, "Horsty Wimer, who claimed there was a million-dollar markup." I just had to, like-

    11. MB

      Ah, actually, somebody should fact-check me on that. And it, it's probably-

    12. JR

      I'm sure it was-

    13. MB

      ... higher than a million, but (laughs) ... Uh, one second. Oh, so they get... You know, they go through the workup, and then they can't find... They can't find a test to prove that they're injured. So the doctors will put them on psychiatric medication. They'll put them on sleeping pills and benzodiazepines and antidepressants. Literally-

    14. JR

      Oy.

    15. MB

      ... I saw a patient who was put on all three. Um, so the only test that I have found that does seem to correlate is this antibody test. It's a spike protein antibody test. LabCorp has it. That's where I send people. Quest has it, but they put the upper limit as too low, so you don't really get a good sense. But it... You know, the upper limit of the test is 25,000. And, and people that have not gotten the COVID shots, I'd say it ranges... It's usually under 1,000. And then people that have gotten the shots, I mean, it's... A lot of them are off the chart. They're over 25,000.

    16. JR

      Wow.

    17. MB

      But on average, they're probably 10 times higher than the people who have not gotten the shot. And this is people who were... you know, they were vaccinated four years ago. It wasn't like they just got sh-... the shot. You know, obviously COVID is not an issue anymore, in terms of, you know, people getting sick. But four years later, you should not have sky-high antibody levels, and that's what I'm seeing, and that is alarming. Um, it just suggests that there is a lot of spike protein still in the body causing problems.

    18. JR

      (exhales deeply) And haven't they shown that the spike protein continues to be produced in the body up to 700 days later?

    19. MB

      There's... Yes. I mean, that is... That's one study. Uh, there's some... You know, what's interesting in that study, the antibody levels were really low, which doesn't make sense.

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. MB

      So I kind of question the whole study, but yeah. I mean, I see it. I mean, I see patients... I mean, I still see vaccine-injured patients coming to me for the first time years later. I, uh... Last week, I probably saw six new vaccine-injured patients. You know, and they, they... They're, they're not getting any help. The, the government, there's... It's called the CICP. That's a vac-... It's a Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program. They're supposed to help these patients. They have denied 98% of people that have applied for assistance. They... On average, they... I think they've awarded 20... They've awarded 30 people, 30. O- of all the vaccine-injured that have applied, 30 people-... on average, the award is, like, $4,000 for these people. It's horrible. I mean, these people's lives are just destroyed. These are not easy things to treat. It's not like I can give them an antibiotic and they're good to go and they're fine. I mean, the, they're very challenging. It's, uh, we don't have a lot of guidance. I do see a lot of, uh, success with ivermectin, but it's slow-going. It's usually, you know, months of trying to, to help them. Um, and the government really (laughs) needs to help these people, 'cause they, there's a lot of people suffering, um, and they're, they're getting completely ignored. The other issue is we don't even have a code. So every disease has a, a numerical code, and it's called an ICD-10 code. It's what they use to compensate people for ... or the insurance companies use them, but also for tracking. So if you, if you have ... You know, COVID has its own little code, and you can just dial in the code and get all the numbers. They don't have a code for vaccine injury. They have a code for vaccine hesitancy, but they don't have a code for injury. So all these people are just sort of, you know, they're getting all these diagnoses, but there's no way to track them. Um, it's a big problem.

    22. JR

      How convenient.

    23. MB

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Well, I would imagine you, the, the real problem with paying people is you'd have to pay so many.

    25. MB

      (laughs) Well-

    26. JR

      You know? That, but that's-

    27. MB

      Well, we can just print the money. I don't know what the problem is. Uh ... (laughs)

    28. JR

      I mean, what would you, what do you give them? What i- what if you find out-

    29. MB

      Well-

    30. JR

      ... you have myocarditis, and your life expectancy is greatly reduced, and we know for a fact it came out of this vaccine? What do you give a person like that? You're gonna take-

  10. 57:50 – 1:10:51

    Mechanism concerns: DNA contamination, SV40 discussion, nanoparticles, and pseudouridine

    1. JR

      ... to talk about SV40, right?

    2. MB

      Well, well, my thing with Calley, I, I actually talked to him last night. Just why ... He will not go on record to state the COVID shot should be pulled off the market. And that, you know, that's the whole m- He's the head of m- I look at him-

    3. JR

      Do you think that's being political, that's trying to, like, appease too many people? What do you think that is?

    4. MB

      I, I can't read their minds, but I think as ev- I think anybody with a big microphone who is, uh, in a position of power and who knows the truth is e- ethically obligated to speak the truth. That's how I see it. I mean, I'm not a politician. I keep hearing the word strategy, but there are, you know, there are people ... I see, I'm just faced with the carnage every day in my office. It's, it's just, I can't ignore it, and I don't understand why this is so difficult other than, you know, political, but it shouldn't be political.

    5. JR

      It shouldn't be. Right, that's what's disappointing, because we thought that this administration would come in, and it was just gonna kick down doors.

    6. MB

      Right.

    7. JR

      Like, this is it. Epstein list, day one. Who killed JFK? Let's find out. What are all these fucking UFOs? You know? Like ... (laughs)

    8. MB

      (laughs) Well, uh-

    9. JR

      Because-

    10. MB

      ... that wasn't on my priority list, but yeah. (laughs)

    11. JR

      Yeah, mine. I'm a dummy. I was, that was my number one.

    12. MB

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      Uh, f- ... But, like, if I had ... Out of those three, give me that one. Gi- tell me the aliens are real. But they, this p- political dance, this-

    14. MB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      ... this excuse for that. So, uh, I re- really appreciated, uh, Jack Cruz kind of p- pestering him on that.

    16. MB

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      And then I've talked to Bret Weinstein about that as well, uh, and he gave a, a breakdown of how it actually happened and when the original, uh, kidney cells from these monkeys were being used-

    18. MB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      ... to make vaccines.

    20. MB

      Oh, right. Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      That they inadvertently get, gave these people this simian virus 40-

    22. MB

      Right.

    23. JR

      ... which, when it gets into the human body, can lead to rapid cancer.

    24. MB

      Right. Well, yeah, that's one of the cancer-causing issues with these shots. That's not the only one, though. I mean-

    25. JR

      Right. What-

    26. MB

      It goes into the cell. It's supposed to not get into the nucleus, but it could get in the nucleus. We know that it can get into the nucleus. And then if it gets in the nucleus, game over.

    27. JR

      Well, at first they thought it was gonna stay local.

    28. MB

      Right, right. It's only gonna stay in the arm, right?

    29. JR

      It's only gonna stay right where your arm is.

    30. MB

      (laughs)

  11. 1:10:51 – 1:22:46

    Censorship and platform dynamics: YouTube, Twitter/X bans, bots, and controlled narratives

    1. MB

      Wow. Do you think you'll get censored on YouTube? This interview?

    2. JR

      No.

    3. MB

      You don't.

    4. JR

      No.

    5. MB

      'Cause I was just on Jimmy Dore.

    6. JR

      Yeah, you got censored?

    7. MB

      And they had to bleep out like a full sentence of mine.

    8. JR

      I'm not bleeping out shit.

    9. MB

      On YouTube. (laughs)

    10. JR

      I'm not bleeping out shit.

    11. MB

      Do you think it'll be okay?

    12. JR

      Uh, we'll find out. I, I think it's wrong if it's not okay. If it's not okay, I think YouTube is more reasonable now than they were, uh, during the pandemic. And uh, I think they have a very difficult job managing content at scale where you're dealing with, you know, the m- the amount of people uploading things-

    13. MB

      Hmm.

    14. JR

      ... is insanity.

    15. MB

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JR

      And they have certain things that they've tagged as being controversial because they were anti-science or misinformation that it's still, there's like lingering ones. What was the issue that we had, Jamie? We had like a old episode where there was something in the old episode that would have violated their rules back then. It doesn't violate them now. But we, because i- the episode was uploaded back then, what happened with that?

    17. NA

      (clears throat) So just, I had like a weird ... at the time, the penalty was like a r- you had to do something and so like they couldn't take that step away. That was kind of the issue.

    18. JR

      But the bottom line was-

    19. NA

      So you had to cut through the bullshit.

    20. JR

      ... everything this person said was true.

    21. MB

      Mm-hmm.

    22. JR

      And proven to be true now. And now it's 100% fact, so now you can say whatever you want. Like now if you say, "Hey, you know, super likely that that virus leaked from a lab in China." (slaps hands)

    23. MB

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      And now you can say that.

    25. MB

      Right. (laughs)

    26. JR

      Like back then, you would get attacked.

    27. MB

      Oh, yeah.

    28. JR

      You would be crazy. You'd be called a racist, you'd be called the worst things possible if you just said, like the wonderful Jon Stewart bit that he did on Colbert Show. Did you ever see that bit?

    29. MB

      Hmm, I don't, I can't remember.

    30. JR

      You wanna see it?

Episode duration: 2:51:31

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