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Joe Rogan Experience #2337 - Oliver Anthony

Oliver Anthony is a singer-songwriter of country and folk music. His debut album, “Hymnal of a Troubled Man’s Mind,” is available everywhere music is sold. https://www.oliveranthonymusic.com Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/ROGANYT to get 4 months free! Get 25% off your first order at https://MASAChips.com/JRE

Joe RoganhostOliver Anthonyguest
Jun 13, 20253h 0mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:26

    Reunion + why the new song hits so hard

    1. JR

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) And we're up, my friend. How are you?

    4. OA

      Hey, man.

    5. JR

      Good to see you.

    6. OA

      Long time no talk.

    7. JR

      Yeah, brother. Yeah. How you doing? You good?

    8. OA

      Good. I, um ... Man, I remember like towards the last, the end of the last time I was here you said, "Oh yeah, we'll probably see you again in a couple of years." And I was just looking around like, "Yeah, I'll never see any of this again." (laughs)

    9. JR

      (laughs) You're back quicker than you thought.

    10. OA

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      Bro, that new song is fire.

    12. OA

      Oh, thanks. Yeah.

    13. JR

      Woo! I played that song about 20 times in the green room-

    14. OA

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      ... and, uh, the first time I played it everybody just sat around and went, "Oh, shit."

    16. OA

      It was so funny that, um ... Yeah, I didn't expect the song d- ... Well, you know, I didn't ... I wasn't the one ... I guess it was Adam that sent it. D- I don't even know how you got ahold of the song originally.

    17. JR

      Yeah. Adam sent it to me originally.

    18. OA

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. OA

      I sent it ... I'd sent it to him like, um ... Yeah, just kinda to ... Just to get his opinion of it or whatever, and he's like, "I got it." He's like, "Do you mind if I share this around?" And I was like, "Yeah, go ahead."

    21. JR

      Bro, the first time I heard it was in the green room, and the green room has a killer sound system, so we, we put it on the Bluetooth and cranked it and all of us, there was like 10 dudes in that room, going, "Oh, shit. Oh, shit!"

    22. OA

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      Some of those lines like, "Oh, shit!"

    24. OA

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      Woo!

  2. 1:26 – 3:32

    Recording in a snowstorm: generator-powered sessions in West Virginia

    1. OA

      What, what makes that song different, I guess, than anything I've done or than a lot of music now is that we're, um ... We tried to like do it the way Lynyrd Skynyrd or somebody would back in this ... Where we're all just in the house and there's no like ... Man, there's so much editing that goes into music now on the backend and stuff, and with this, we're just like in there doing it and, you know, try to keep it as real as-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. OA

      ... as possible. Like um ... You know, there's no, there's no click tracks. There's no real editing. It's just kinda like we're all just in this house. I mean, it's ... It was cr- ... It was the worst timing to record, but um, that was ... That January 5th, 6th, 7th window was the only time that everybody could meet up. You know, Billy Contreras on the fiddle and everybody and ... 'Cause he, he tours with Ricky Skaggs and he's kinda all over the place. So that was like our time to meet, so. A couple of days before we all went to West Virginia to record at my house up there the, um, this like terrible storm they were calling for. It's like the worst one since the '90s supposedly, or that's what Draven says, but ... So we got all this snow, all this ice. So um, so yeah, we used a, a side-by-side and a Jeep to haul everything up and down. It was like just all we could do to get up and down to the house, and then as ... Right as soon-

    4. JR

      Wow.

    5. OA

      ... as we get everything plugged in and ready to go, the power knocks out.

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. OA

      And uh ... (laughs) I was like, we were all just so discouraged and, um, luckily there, you know, there's a Lowe's not terribly far away and they had one ... They had like a Honda inverter generator that was like safe to plug everything into, you know. Like a ... Where the waves aren't gonna mess everything up and, um ... So yeah, we've ... You know, we recorded the song while ... On a generator.

    8. JR

      So you have to worry about the waves of the generator, like the sound of the generator?

    9. OA

      Well like-

    10. JR

      Is that what it is?

    11. OA

      D- ... No, like the-

    12. JR

      Electrical pulses?

    13. OA

      Yeah, the ... Like plugging all of that expensive equipment into just like a, a ... Yeah, a generator that's not an inverter. Like the voltage like goes up and down I guess or-

    14. JR

      Oh.

    15. OA

      ... I don't know. That's all above my pay grade, but-

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. OA

      We had to find one that was like safe to plug all that equipment into, you know. Um-

    18. JR

      Well, it ... Maybe that's something in the song too. You know, like maybe that you're trapped in a storm. But that's a scary ass song, dude.

    19. OA

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      It's a scary s- ... (laughs)

  3. 3:32 – 5:28

    Fame after 'Rich Men North of Richmond': wanting it to slow down (but it didn’t)

    1. OA

      I can't wait for the ... Yeah. See, I hadn't put a lot of new music out because, um ... Well, I think back to even when I was here last time and before we did the episode and all, um, walking around on the sidewalk out in front of the hotel with Draven and a couple other people arguing that I needed to just cash out from Richmond and roll and not make this into a long term thing 'cause I just, um ... Well, dude, I just don't ... Some people thrive in this environment, like everybody looking at them, but I ... To me it's just like, ugh. So it just ... It kinda takes, it kinda takes a little bit out of me putting new music out, and so. You know, after Richmond I only had those two new songs. I really just wanted to let everything kinda slow down and I could still maybe do five or 10 shows a year and make a little bit of ... But I wasn't trying to be like a superstar or ... I didn't want everybody just to be ... I didn't wanna be stuck in that spot I was when I was at Richmond where everybody's just like obsessing over stuff. And so I kinda just tried to let it die, and then it, you know, it wouldn't. It was like the streams kept continuing and people were still messaging me and emailing and the shows were still selling out, and I just realized like ... I don't know. You know, I believed everybody that said, "This kid's got 15 minutes of fame," and whatever, and I would've been ... During ... When Richmond blew up, I would've been one of those guys who would've been like, "Oh, that stupid guy." You know? Like-

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. OA

      I would've been a hater too, so I'm k- ... I was almost like rooting for them, like, "Yeah."

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. OA

      You know, 'cause you gotta think, man. The first check from Richmond was $800,000. Like I can, I could've lived a long time off of that money, you know. Like I don't-

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. OA

      ... need a whole lotta ... Like that was cra- ... You know, that was-

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. OA

      ... a decade or more of work for me easily. And so-

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. OA

      ... it's like, I was like, "Heck yeah, I'm good." I'll just take it ... You know. And um ... Anyway, I say all that to say that now it's like I'm gonna at least just, I'm gonna at least just hit it good one more time and I've got ... We've got six songs recorded now to come after Scornful that are all like ... I'm pretty proud of them. They're good. And so, um, I'm gonna put those out and then who knows after that, but ...

  4. 5:28 – 11:32

    Organic reach, bots, and people’s power to push culture

    1. JR

      Well let me tell you what's gonna happen. You got a relationship with those people now, man. They love you.

    2. OA

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      It's just your mission in life. You know, you just got handed a wild hand of cards, and this is your, your deck of cards. You know, your deck of cards is ... Or your hand of cards is you put this song out, this authentic song. That's very simple. In this time where nothing's simple, in this time where everything's confusing and all ... You don't know who's telling the truth.... the news is lying to you. The- everything is being funded, nothing's organic, it's half the fucking traffic on social media is bots, at least.

    4. OA

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Politicians are lying. Everybody's confused. People are simping for politicians.

    6. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JR

      They're- they're getting paid the repeat talking points on television and on podcasts and all over social media. So when someone comes out with something like, that is just that dude telling you how he feels.

    8. OA

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      Real, raw. You know? I remember when we had that conversation on the phone, and I was like, "If you can do that, you can do that again." You don't- they don't need anybody else. You don't need these motherfuckers who want you to cash out. All these mo- they- they just- they- they're doing that because they think that you're gullible. They think that you're naive in the ways of the m- entertainment music business. The first fucking live show you ever performed was a giant sold-out show at a state fair. You know how crazy that is? That was your first live sh-

    10. OA

      Yeah, that- well that- that-

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. OA

      ... very first show was actually, um- it was even more amateur than that. It was at a farm market.

    13. JR

      (laughs)

    14. OA

      It was, um- it wasn't even a sh- there weren't even any tickets. It was just like- so it's crazy how it all- it just- it goes back to when I- I still believe just as much now as I did the last time I was here about- and I don't- I definitely won't bug everybody too much with all my hokey pokey religious stuff, either, but like I definitely wanna read a little bit out before we go, but I do believe it was just- it was all too perfectly timed. But I had actually picked that date out at the- at the farm market before Richmond blew up. That was gonna be my f- that was gonna be my first time playing live either way.

    15. JR

      Oh, wow.

    16. OA

      That date, it was like August the 12th, I think. I had booked it back in July with that Morris Farm Market.

    17. JR

      Oh, wow.

    18. OA

      I was gonna get $200.00 and go play for like-

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. OA

      ... it was like two and a half hours. Like, seriously, and-

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. OA

      ... in that time, that's what ha- so like I already had that date picked, and yeah, it was just at a farm market, and, um, like kinda near the beach in Outer Banks, and they say like 12,000 people showed up, and that was the very first one. Yeah, and I just- (clears throat) I remember even then, like I just ex- I just expected everybody to sing Richmond and that was gonna be it and it'd be cool and I'd go back to work the next week. But it was like even in that crowd at that very first show, all the other songs, they knew the words to, too. And I was like-

    23. JR

      Wow.

    24. OA

      ... this is like something, you know? But-

    25. JR

      Wow.

    26. OA

      ... um, the important thing, too, is that- the im- the important thing to take away from this, and I said this during Richmond, but pe- you know, it was like take me out of it. The fact that people c- can now choose what they want and push it to the top even in a system that's rigged where there is bots and there's mass marketing money going into songs and like labels spend $1 million on their own song to get it up the label.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. OA

      The fact that people can just decide they like something and just shoot it up to the top- like people need to realize how much power and influence they have.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. OA

      At least for a short period in time in society, it's like the stars are aligned where we can kinda- it's funny. Technology, like, can only develop on the backs of people using it. And so like AI and- and all of this over the years, social media, like all the backend of that, it's been f- it's- all that information's f- being sort of extracted from us. Like you think about like the Te- like the way when a Tesla car rides down the road and it's watching you drive and you're- and you're like- it's like reading your analytics so it can learn how to drive better. We know AI- that's the only reason why they let everybody use AI is so it can make the AI b- it's the user input that's- that's what makes it, you know? And so for a very short period in time, it's like the stars are aligned where they're having to like while they're sucking all the humanity out of us to put into this AI, we also have full access to it. And like so we can do- like even in the- even in the music business, you know, everything that the label used to hold exclusive control over like the publicity and the marketing and the digital streaming service relationships, like all that stuff is now just a la carte to anybody. Like you don't need the- you don't need those big companies.

  5. 11:32 – 17:16

    Identity, political tribalism, and “prison-like” social categories

    1. OA

      (laughs) Well, it goes back to what you said about mass mi- manipulation, and also like-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. OA

      ... we don't- we- we've all sort of lost our identity. That's why politics has become so prevalent in like the way people represent themselves to other people, and like, you know, that's- like as- as our- as our culture and our tradition and like sort of the- the knowledge of where our families and all of that stuff comes from, like we're just sort of all- we're just little boats out in a big ocean, and we're looking for somewhere to- we're looking for some kind of identity to reach out and grab. And politics- they make politics so easy to reach out and grab, and may- just like in the same way that people just absorb themselves into sports.

    4. JR

      Exactly.

    5. OA

      You know, they're at- way out of shape, but they wi- they- like they refer to their sports team as we. Like our d-

    6. JR

      'Cause Jame-

    7. OA

      ... our defense did really good.

    8. JR

      ... Jamie does that all the time. "We won." Talks about a college-

    9. OA

      (laughs) ... where I'm from.

    10. JR

      S- some college where he's from.

    11. OA

      Well, that's-

    12. JR

      It's in my blood. (laughs)

    13. OA

      ... maybe...

    14. NA

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      Get out of here.

    16. NA

      (laughs)

    17. OA

      Maybe if he's from there, though, then it doesn't count, but-

    18. JR

      Oh, I'm just fucking around.

    19. OA

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      I'm a-

    21. NA

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      ... I'm not a team sports guy, you know? I'm a combat sports guy, and I would never say, "We won."

    23. OA

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Like if Kamaru Usman-

    25. NA

      (laughs)

    26. JR

      ... beat somebody, I'd never say, "We won." You know, Kamaru-

    27. OA

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      ... would call me up, "What the fuck are you saying, man? We? You know what I did in camp? You know how many rounds I sparred?"

    29. NA

      (laughs)

    30. JR

      You know?

  6. 17:16 – 19:09

    Corruption, incentives, and why leadership attracts sociopaths

    1. OA

      It's the same psychology that goes in, like, in a lot of the smaller Appalachian towns, like, um, like, where we, where we recorded was really close to Bramwell, West Virginia. But if you look at, like, even if you look at Bramwell, West Virginia and their recent political history, like, the last mayor they had, she, she embezzled money from the town, and there was like-

    2. JR

      Whoopsies.

    3. OA

      You know, and this is in a very small town. Like, so, so government corruption e- exists, like-

    4. JR

      Everywhere.

    5. OA

      And it almost is like maybe in those big cities... I g- I, I understand definitely that I think things are intentionally neglected, like, to create chaos and to create this, like you said, this need for more resources and more. But it's also just that maybe a lot of those people that are in positions are just very spineless and self-centered, and, like, they don't even care that people are dying in their streets. They're worried about the, the, the money that can be made and the ego and power of it. It goes back to kinda what I said in that ARC speech about lack of leadership. I just see that, like, if we had people in big cities or in small Appalachian towns that had, like, a real backbone to them and, like, and, and had... They were in a real position of, like, leadership where they wanted to fix things, that a lot of that stuff would get addressed and covered, but we just don't have the right people in power maybe even is what it is. Even in, even in local-

    6. JR

      Right people don't run.

    7. OA

      ... and state government.

    8. JR

      The right people don't run.

    9. OA

      (sighs)

    10. JR

      They don't want that job, man. They don't want that smoke. They don't want people attacking them. They don't want any of it. The right people are the people that don't wanna be president.

    11. OA

      It's almost, it's almost like-

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. OA

      ... they've made these positions only appealing to people who are, like-

    14. JR

      Sociopaths.

    15. OA

      ... sort of criminals, sociopaths or criminals, yeah.

    16. JR

      Yeah. Re- for real.

    17. OA

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      Like, who the fuck wants to run everything? You gotta be crazy.

    19. OA

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      I don't even like running my whole house. I don't like having employees. It's too much, it's too much responsibility.

    21. OA

      What do you think would happen if just some normal people ran the country though? Like just some average Joes? Like, what if me and you just went and ran the... What if me and you ran for president, what would happen? It would be like-

    22. JR

      We'd be killed. You put in a fucking convertible, roll through Dallas.

    23. OA

      They would definitely shoot... They would definitely be able to hit my big head, that's for sure.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. OA

      They wouldn't-

    26. JR

      My head's not that little either. You want a cigar?

  7. 19:09 – 25:07

    Cigars + Mothership memories: Ron White’s guitar rescue and live music plans

    1. OA

      Yeah.

    2. JR

      You smoke cigars?

    3. OA

      Yeah, let's do it.

    4. JR

      Get on to it, big dog.

    5. OA

      Well, the la- I, I smoked a cigar with a guy one time that...

    6. JR

      What happened? This is the second cigar you've ever smoked?

    7. OA

      It ended up all on the internet. Yeah. (laughs)

    8. JR

      This is your second cigar ever?

    9. OA

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Here.

    11. OA

      I just keep it, keep it running for a minute?

    12. JR

      Yeah, just pull on it. The, the real cigar guys, they want you to do that first. You kind of bake the outside.

    13. OA

      (coughs)

    14. JR

      Aah. There we go. (laughs)

    15. OA

      Hitting it like it's a... Like a... I'm in high school and it's, like, a fat joint.

    16. JR

      Oh. Imagine a joint like this. I gu- guarantee you there's some people out there, some rappers rolling bli- blunts this thick. You gotta do it this way or they get mad at you.

    17. OA

      (inhales deeply) Yeah, this is really good.

    18. JR

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    19. OA

      Well, I... Hey, I did s- I did smoke... I smoked half of black and m- black and mild with, um, Chris Davison from the Davison Brothers while we were on tour one time, so I guess that counts as, as a cigar.

    20. JR

      That's kind of a cigar.

    21. OA

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      Like, uh, Swisher Sweets, they kinda count as cigars.

    23. OA

      I, I have a sp- talking about Swisher Sweets, I have a friend of mine that I ride side-by-sides with a lot, um, named Jeremy, and that's all he smokes are Swisher Sweets.

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. OA

      And that's like his... Anytime I see him I'm like, "Yo, what's up, Swisher Sweet?" So I ended up hitting him up on Instagram, Swisher Sweet.

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. OA

      And I said, "Hey, I got a friend of mine." I was like, "Will you just send him some merch and s-..." And they totally did. Like, he got this whole, like-

    28. JR

      Oh, that's awesome.

    29. OA

      He got, like, all these shirts and hats and stuff. He's the only guy I know that smokes them, but he's, like, all day smoking them. He's, uh, um... He was in the Marines and stuff, and he's, uh, he's out now, and just, like, rides a boat around all day and hangs... He's, like, lives his dream life now and smokes Swisher Sweets, so...

    30. JR

      I wonder what percentage of Swisher Sweets get sliced open for blunts. It's gotta be 50, right?

  8. 25:07 – 33:16

    Rescue dogs, dog food, and backyard farming: from eggs to “meat birds”

    1. JR

      Yeah, I can't go to those places.

    2. OA

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      I would have 100 dogs.

    4. OA

      They got this one dog on their website, I should've s- I should've sent it to you, but I don't know, maybe J- Jamie can find it, but it's like there's this one, like, older dog. I think he's a chihuahua or something, but he's got this real funny name like Buddy or Poppy or something, but he's like the most, like... He doesn't have any teeth. His tongue's hanging out. I was like, "That's my... I could just take him home with me, Buddy or something."

    5. JR

      I've had a bunch-

    6. OA

      His name-

    7. JR

      ... of rescue dogs in my life. Um, it is a thing. There's a, like a relationship you have with them that's different than any other dog. Like, they fucking... They're so... They love you so much.

    8. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      They're so happy you rescued them. Like, they know that you rescued them. Whereas my dog, Marshall, he has no idea.

    10. OA

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      He's, like, living the best life. He's just like, "Everyone's my friend."

    12. OA

      Yeah. (laughs)

    13. JR

      He has, uh... He's never fucking growled at a person in his life. He's nothing but sweet.

    14. OA

      Think about how lucky you got to be to be Joe Rogan's dog. That's pretty cool. Like, what's the odds of that, out of all the dogs?

    15. JR

      Well, how lucky am I to have a dog like him?

    16. OA

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      He's the best dog ever.

    18. OA

      Yeah, no, I-

    19. JR

      He's like a little human. He's like a human. Like, we have conversations. Like, he, he knows, like, not just words. He knows, like, when I'm saying something, like, what to do. Like, he... Me and hi- that dog are, like, locked in. It's wild. He's the best. He's just all love.

    20. OA

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      Like, for everybody that comes over. Like, when people come over to the studio and he's here, he just does a circle.

    22. OA

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      He's like, "I'm your friend," and then, uh, licks you. "I'm your friend." And he just kee- goes around and, and he sees you. The first thing he does is flop on his back, like, "I know you want to rub my belly."

    24. OA

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      "Come on."

    26. OA

      Yeah. (laughs)

    27. JR

      He's just so used to being just loved on.

    28. OA

      Yeah. I just got a, um... Well, I had, you know, I had the three... I had three dogs, and then I, I lost my white shepherd, like, right after we got off a tour. He got bone cancer and-

    29. JR

      Ooh.

    30. OA

      ... he was gone within, like, a month or a month and a half, and uh-

  9. 33:16 – 38:41

    Church power, moral authority, and cycles of control

    1. JR

      Let's start off, this is from a decree from a pope a thousand years ago.

    2. Whoa.

    3. They didn't want ban on four-legged animals.

    4. What?

    5. Yeah.

    6. They got tough and banned meat from four-legged animals on fasts.

    7. OA

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      Oh, on fasts. Which numbered 130 days out of the year. Damn. 130 fasts? What were they doing back then?

    9. Yeah, you couldn't eat, like, you had to fast all of Lent, which is 40 days. That's like the Christmas, uh, Easter fast. You probably had to do it again around Christmas.

    10. But when they say fast, but you could eat chicken?

    11. Yeah, they did like-

    12. Well, that's not a fast.

    13. Or fish.

    14. That's bullshit. Yeah, the Lent thing when I was a kid, I remember that.

    15. Yeah.

    16. I remember-

    17. OA

      I don't know, I can't, I can't-

    18. JR

      ... fish on Friday.

    19. OA

      I don't think that the Catholic Church... I just can't imagine the Catholic Church ever coming out with some kind of decree that just doesn't make total sense, though-

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. OA

      ... you know, for everybody to follow. I don't know.

    22. JR

      Forever.

    23. OA

      I'm sure it's some... I'm sure, I'm sure there's some... Yeah, forever. I'm sure there's some reasonable explanation.

    24. JR

      Yeah, they definitely have it dialed in.

    25. OA

      Yeah, it's not like churches a thousand years ago would, would ever do anything that didn't make a lot of sense, so.

    26. JR

      Well, I think back then, when, when did they stop being allowed to have wives and shit? When did that happen? Like, when did the Catholic Church put a ban... When, like, when did they make it so that everybody had to be celibate? Boy, what a stupid idea that was.

    27. OA

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      You wanna get people com- completely disconnected from society and sexually, insanely repressed? Just, you give them saltpeter and tell them they can't beat off.

    29. It became canon law in the 11th century, later reinforced in the Council of Trent, 1545. So I bet there were, it sounds like there's 300, 400 years of a little slippery times.

    30. Mm.

  10. 38:41 – 43:02

    Revolutions, drones, and autonomous war: the next era of conflict

    1. OA

      Did you s- ... Have you seen that video that went around recently of, I think it was in Romania, but there was, like, a overthrow that happened in the day. It was like the, it was a, it was from back in the '80s, it was a d- ... I think it was like a d- ... It was a dictator f- that r- it was over Romania, I believe. I don't know. I'm, I'm not on the internet a whole lot anymore, thankfully.

    2. JR

      Thankfully.

    3. OA

      I've found that ... But, um, I remember watching a bit of this video where this, it was, like, a Romanian dictator who had ... He had been in power for, like, 20 years and had done a lot of oppressive stuff, but overall was, like, maintaining power. And then, at some point, a police officer or a military official or something shot, I think, like, a, like, a preacher or a pope or something, and the, the, the dictator dude took the side of the police, and it sort of was like a cultural shift, and basically, like, he went to give this big speech and all these people showed up, and they had applause playing over loudspeakers, but really the crowd was there to, like, mob. And within, like, a day, they had, like, taken the whole government over. The whole military turned against him. It was a big video that just got uploaded about it, like-

    4. JR

      Whoa.

    5. OA

      ... maybe a month ago. I think it was Romania, I believe. But, um, it was so quick. It was like he went from being in this position of power and, like, ruling over everything and having just, just extreme wealth and the whole military at his disposal, to, to everyone turning on him, and him be- ... He was publicly executed, I think, the day after that speech. But that was just something I watched-

    6. JR

      Whoa.

    7. OA

      Here we go, yeah.

    8. JR

      "Executing a dictator. Open wounds of Romania's Christmas revolution." Whoa, they did it on Christmas. Damn. Damn. Wow. And there's a video on this?

    9. OA

      Yeah, there's a video on YouTube that, that somebody sent me that I was watching through. It was just, it just showed how, it just showed the going back to like if enough people have their minds (clears throat) made the same way, they can just pretty much do anything.

    10. JR

      Wow.

    11. OA

      But, um, I believe it was wi- it was within like a two-day period that all this happened. He went from being in power to being publicly executed. And they held, uh, elections afterwards, and, like ... And I don't know all the history of it, I know very little, but it's just something that seemed really interesting to me that I've never ... I was never taught this in school or anything, I know that. But of course, I didn't pay a whole lot attention while I was there either, so maybe I, maybe I did get taught, I don't know.

    12. JR

      There's been so much war in that part of the world, man, for so long, for so long. It's like baked into the ground. (clears throat)

    13. OA

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      The crazy shit that's going on in Ukraine right now, have you seen that they, uh, they're flying these drones that you can't jam?

    15. OA

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      And the way they are, they have, like, miles of fiber optic cable-

    17. OA

      Mm, yeah.

    18. JR

      ... attached to them?

    19. OA

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      This is so crazy. They're like fishing. They're like fishing with a drone. And now birds are making, like, nests out of this fiber optic stuff. They're picking it up like, "Oh, this is perfect.

    21. OA

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      Make a little nest with this shit."

    23. OA

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      Do you see how they got those drones-

    25. OA

      (coughs)

    26. JR

      ... in for the attack on the planes recently?

    27. OA

      What did they do?

    28. JR

      They were actually, they-

    29. OA

      They, they drove them in, in trucks, right?

    30. JR

      Yeah, that they were like ... I don't know if buried is the right word, but they were, like, secretly in the trucks, and then, like, they all came out at once or something? Like, the-

  11. 43:02 – 53:29

    AI, social media addiction, and losing real-world community

    1. OA

      I've heard s- ... You know, th- this is all just generalization stuff, but I've definitely ... I've heard people make pretty compelling arguments about, like, you know, all these sort of, like, prophetic visions of the end of times, all the stuff in the sky and all the imagery and all that, that a lot of that could be-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. OA

      (clears throat) I don't know, I just- I- I see a time coming very (laughs) soon where the- where warfare is conducted with these drones, and also with like probably ground machinery too. Like you see they've got Tesla bots and other variants of that-

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. OA

      ... that are able to catch tennis balls and organize groceries, and-

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. OA

      ... these things are all fed off of artificial intelligence which knows everything about all of us collectively. It sees where we go and what we do and what we say and what we shop for and what we look for and how we drive, and it's like this- almost like this very God-like thing, and I don't think that it even matters whose AI it is, if it's China or ours or some private company. I think it's like at some point it will just be the thing. We won't e- it- it won't even be China's AI anymore, it will just be...

    8. JR

      Yeah, it'll say, "Fuck you, China."

    9. OA

      (laughs) You know?

    10. JR

      We're taking over. We don't believe in countries. We believe in the hive mind.

    11. OA

      How do you stop that? Like how-

    12. JR

      You don't.

    13. OA

      Like it goes into- it goes into industry and creativity and e- almost everything, almost everything that a human can provide out- outside of very select few things can be emulated and replicated and done by. It makes us practically irrelevant in the eyes of-

    14. JR

      Well, in- in a lot of ways. It doesn't make us irrelevant in art because you're always gonna want art from a person. (clears throat) You're always gonna want art. You're always gonna want paintings from a real person. You're always gonna want music from a real person. You're always gonna want-

    15. OA

      I don't know though, like I s- I think with- I s- I s- I think AI is already like deeply ingrained in music. I don't think... I can't... (clears throat) I don't know, I would bet- I'd bet a lot that most of the new big song- the big hot songs that get written and just the big... I think AI drives all that. I know for a short period of time I used a social media company in Nashville. There was also a period of time that I used a management company in Nashville and both of those girls I worked with at both of those companies who were helping me with social media stuff, they even had AI like trying to write my captions and stuff, and I would always just like s- it was always the most dumb-sounding stuff but it was like... If they w- they would take pictures from after a show or something and they would want to make a post on Instagram the next day that says, "Oh! Had so much fun in this town. It was... I'll never forget it. Can't wait to see you next time." And it was just like this little- they had like a little thing but it- it pre-wrote all these based off of like how I wrote in the past and stuff, and it's weird how, um... I- I- it goes back to what you said about most of what's on the internet isn't real anyway, but I think in music AI is much more prevalent than we realize. I just think it's like kept in the... I don't- people aren't gonna say that they're using it but I think like in the big- these big songwriter circles and things where they have to generate- you have to generate 20 or 30 songs a week and like there's all this pressure. I mean like and that's your job and you're like, "Oh my God, what am I gonna do?" (laughs) Like...

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. OA

      You know? Like I can't go back and live with my par- I gotta do... I don't know, I just- I don't see how people aren't. It's in almost- people use AI in almost every job now. I know like people who are in sales who use it to like help them manage their customer bases and who they're going to call on and what they're gonna s- I just- I don't know, I think it will become- I think it's already become ingrained in us. We're already so addicted to te- we're so reliant to technology it's- it's pitiful, you know? Just like how hard it is to walk around without a phone, you know? Like...

    18. JR

      Yeah, we're integrated.

    19. OA

      Even- even with- when I had periods of time where I knew I had months off and did- I would always at least- I got to the point where I- I weaned myself down to like this- I bought a flip phone from Walmart that still runs on a Ver- Verizon SIM, but that's- that's what I'd carry and two or three people knew my... But even then I always felt like I at least had to have a flip phone on me in case like... What happens if you're out in the woods and break your leg or I don't know weird- like but they are now a part- like those phones are a part of us, we don't go anywhere without them.

    20. JR

      You can never have no phone.

    21. OA

      We feel naked. We feel vulnerable without them, so...

    22. JR

      I know. You really do.

    23. OA

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Like if you go for a quick walk without a phone, you're like, "Oh my God, I need..."

    25. OA

      So when the time comes when it's like will there- if there even is a definitive time but it's like when we have to choose between integrating with AI and not, most people are gonna do it.

    26. JR

      Yeah, it's...

    27. OA

      Most people will just immediately submit and be a part of it, and be maybe even excited to be a part of it.

    28. JR

      It probably won't be a f- a decision that you're allowed to make. It- it's probably something that's gonna be... If you wanna function in society, you have to integrate.

    29. OA

      Like we talked about in that text about how it feels like we're in an alternate dimension and it seems like there's these like things coming. You know, it's like it does- it does- it also it is just because things happen so fast and chaotic that we can't really keep up with anything. One day the submarine collapses and the next day this other crazy thing happens and then, you know, I don't know, it's just like it's so hard to keep up with what anything of what's really going on. I think the problem is that we have to start having people gather together again and hang out and not just make all of our hangouts digital because the systems, like you said, there's bots and algorithms and marketing approaches and psychology that's just deeply rooted that goes into like just the way we fundamentally communicate now as societies and just globally. Like we all just talk on... I mean, gosh, I- like I've used this example before somewhere talking but it's like I think about back when I was in high school like my high school girlfriend, you know? We would have some trivial argument about something. There was no way that m- me and her were gonna text and figure out how to fix that and now (laughs) you know, like and that was a high school g- relationship like that was over something stupid. It's like real world problems you can't fix just texting and I don't think we can fix all this shit on X and Facebook and all that. I think it's like- it's- I think people just ha- people are... (sighs) We're almost to the point now where we prefer socializing on the internet because it's e- it's almost like our minds have become more adapted to think that way but it's- but it's- we're h- we're in this digital world chasing and emulating all of the things that we're- that are- that we have this void from- from not having in real life. Like I don't know. It's- (clears throat) it makes it very complicated to fix anything when we're... Uh, the only way that we can... We have this amazing intricate English language where all these words can mean all these different things and it's so easy to put everybody together in a digital space with AI and bots and manipulation and- and algorithms and big companies and how do you fix all that in that space? It's just like it's- you'll never- it's like in a house- we're just in a house of mirrors, you know? Um...

    30. JR

      Yeah. You- you're- you're supposed to not engage. That's what people need to stop doing. But the problem is...... the consequences of the actions of the rest of the world do affect you, if they're big. And so, you worry about the big ones, so you pay attention. So, you gotta pay attention to the bad news of eight billion people, which is just unsustainable. And it's also this ability to interact or not interact as you choose all throughout the day. Like, you don't have to be invested in a conversation. If you and I are gonna have a conversation and you ask me about something and I start to answer and I just wander off, (laughs) you're like, "Well, how fucking rude."

  12. 53:29 – 1:24:53

    Staying independent: whitelisting reaction videos and avoiding label traps

    1. OA

      Mm-hmm. There's a hu- there's a thousand more people that are way better than me that are in that same space. And I think, I think my dream of this, long-term, is to figure out how to, like, f- like, how do you get all those people into the limelight? Like-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. OA

      ... like, what I've been working on since... I guess, you know, the one important thing to- to drill home to people too, as a follow-up since the last time we were here, it goes back to that first conversation we had. But r- you know, you remember I was arguing that I really wanted to put all the money from Richmond into a nonprofit and not ever even touch it, 'cause I was just d- I didn't want all that. I felt like it wasn't my money. I felt like all those people went out of their way and supported me and, like, blew all these other huge songs off the chart. And I just, I wanted to... So, and then you said, "Well, no, don't do that because nonprofits are sketchy and people are corrupt," and, like-

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. OA

      ... just keep the money yourself and then figure out how to do good with it.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. OA

      And that was the biggest thing I walked away from that first conversation we had. And so, you know, now it's like I... I, that's the one thing I do want people to know too though is, like, that Richmond money and everything, it's, um, it's went to good... It's went to do a lot of imp- what I think will be in l- in the long run a lot of important things. I've been buying... Most of it's went towards buying land and stuff, but I've got this whole kind of crazy thing. I'm... Like a, just a way for people to unscrew their minds, um, to get reconnected into nature and, um...

    8. JR

      You gonna be a cult leader?

    9. OA

      I was thinking about it, yeah.

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. OA

      Yeah, I was thinking about it. I might, I might try to get with Vermin Supreme. He's got this cool idea about everybody having a free pony and stuff, and I think that would work out.

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. OA

      You ever seen him, Vermin?

    14. JR

      No, who's that guy?

    15. OA

      Vermin Supreme.

    16. JR

      Do you know who he is, Jeremy?

    17. OA

      He runs for president... I think he's from, uh, Connecticut, maybe. He runs for president every time. He wears-

    18. JR

      Does he?

    19. OA

      He has a big boot on his head.

    20. JR

      What?

    21. OA

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      How do I not know this guy?

    23. OA

      Yeah, yeah, y- he's hilarious. There's a... If you go on-

    24. JR

      Oh, this guy? (laughs)

    25. OA

      There's a video of him-

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. OA

      ... from that New Hampshire ... There's a video-

    28. JR

      How do I not know?

    29. OA

      ... of him from that New Hampshire primary.

    30. JR

      How do I not know about this guy?

Episode duration: 3:00:38

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