Joe Rogan Experience #2340 - Charley Crockett

Charley Crockett 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

Joe Rogan 0:12 Yeah, but, doing something at the Viper Room and then trying to come here the next day.

Charley Crockett 0:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:21 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 0:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:21 The Viper Room's just notorious, like even when you're in the building, you just feel like, "Ugh."

Charley Crockett 0:27 It is notorious.

Joe Rogan 0:27 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 0:28 And it's funny because I'd, the only way I'd ever been in there was through that, you know, the door on the side street there.

Joe Rogan 0:33 Uh-huh.

Charley Crockett 0:34 You know? And, uh, but they, you know, they had all the cameras out and took me around the... I'd never come in through the door on Sunset before, even recognized the place.

Joe Rogan 0:43 No, I'd never been through that door either.

Charley Crockett 0:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:45 I've on-, like I said, I've only been there once. I was there for a comedy show. It just feels weird. It's a, there's, there's certain buildings that just have bizarre history. You know?

Charley Crockett 0:52 Yeah, well, Shooter was telling me last night, man, uh, River Phoenix died on the sidewalk right out that door on the... I didn't know that. I thought it was in front of the-

Joe Rogan 1:00 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:00 I thought it was in front of the Whiskey for some reason.

Joe Rogan 1:02 No, no, It was the Viper Room.

Charley Crockett 1:04 I never realized that.

Joe Rogan 1:05 Yeah. Yeah. It was a fucked up place. Hey, man. Nice to meet you.

Charley Crockett 1:09 Pleasure's all mine, Joe. Thanks for having me.

Joe Rogan 1:10 I love your music.

Charley Crockett 1:11 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:11 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when my friend, Jake turned me onto you. Your, your music is like, you've lived a life. You can't fake that.

Charley Crockett 1:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19 You know what I mean? There's something about certain dudes' voices and songs-

Charley Crockett 1:24 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:24 ... they're like, "All right, that guy's done some living."

Charley Crockett 1:26 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:27 You know? You can't create that with AI.

Charley Crockett 1:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:30 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 1:30 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:31 They're gonna try.

Charley Crockett 1:32 Everybody, uh, I mean, it's crazy, we're, uh ... I mean, we're, uh, we're that, we're kind of reaching singularity, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:41 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:41 Where nobody can tell the difference.

Joe Rogan 1:42 I know. I think we're right, right about there. There was a new one that just got released today. Did you s- hear the new one today? It's even, even better than the Google one that was insane that was released last week? Yeah, it's weird.

Charley Crockett 1:54 What are you, what are you talking about?

Joe Rogan 1:55 Uh, some new AI engine that does video. I'll send it to you, Jamie. It's, uh, it's pretty incredible. This, the, the, the way they're able to make stuff now where it looks exactly like, like real human beings. Like it doesn't, i- i- it doesn't look fake-

Charley Crockett 2:12 You can't tell the difference.

Joe Rogan 2:12 ... even a little bit, yeah.

Charley Crockett 2:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13 I'll send it to you, Jamie. All right. (slurps) It's called, um, ByteDance. So is that the China one? No, that's the company. Oh, okay. ByteDance is the company that owns like TikTok and stuff. Oh, yeah, China. Oh, okay. (laughs)

Charley Crockett 2:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:30 Yeah. Um, this is their new AI. So this is all fake, all fake people, all done by computers.

Charley Crockett 2:38 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 2:38 Indistinguishable.

Charley Crockett 2:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:40 You know? It's like, it's very strange. You got it? Yeah. Throw that up. Sound. Gimme some sound. You gotta click on it. This is all fake. (music playing) I mean, what the fuck, man? (static) We are living in the weirdest time ever, Charlie Crockett.

Charley Crockett 3:33 Oh, man, you're right.

Joe Rogan 3:34 This is the weirdest time ever to be alive because we are so close to not being able to tell what's real and what's fake. We're so close. I mean, we're essentially right there with video and then eventually it's going to move into some sort of perception. It's gonna be feel. You're gonna be able to put a helmet on and whoosh-

Charley Crockett 3:57 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:57 ... go into some bizarre world.

Charley Crockett 4:00 And you can't stop it.

Joe Rogan 4:01 You can't stop it.

Charley Crockett 4:02 It's coming.

Joe Rogan 4:03 It's coming. It's n- n- and the people that are working on it in America, like, we have to because China's working on it. I'm like, "Okay. I guess that's just what we're doing." (laughs)

Charley Crockett 4:12 Space race even if it's just a show. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:14 Yeah, it's essentially the Manhattan Project for artificial intelligence, is a race around the world.

Charley Crockett 4:20 Joe, did we go to the moon?

Joe Rogan 4:22 I don't think so.

Charley Crockett 4:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:23 I don't think so.

Charley Crockett 4:23 You know, I don't think so either.

Joe Rogan 4:25 I don't think so.

Charley Crockett 4:25 And it-

Joe Rogan 4:26 I d- it makes you sound fucking completely insane to say it but...

Charley Crockett 4:28 I lost a lot of friends when I was younger when I started th- talking like that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:32 (laughs) I did too. I gained a lot of friends too though.

Charley Crockett 4:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:35 I gained a lot of sci- I, b- listen, man. I've talked to scientists that don't wanna talk about it publicly.

Charley Crockett 4:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:41 Scientists.

Charley Crockett 4:42 Well see, uh, you know what I figured? I figured that would be the one time in the history of civilization that h- human beings got to a new place and said, "Nah, I'm good," and turned around and went-

Joe Rogan 4:55 Exactly.

Charley Crockett 4:55 "I don't wanna look around there anymore."

Joe Rogan 4:56 Well-

Charley Crockett 4:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:57 ... Bart Sibrel, he's this, uh, researcher that's been doing these documentaries on the moon landing and he's been saying it's fake since like... I met him sometime in the early 2000s, I believe, and he put out this, this documentary called A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, and he's got a great quote. And he says, "There's not a single thing that's not easier, faster, and cheaper to reproduce today from 1969 except the moon landing."

Charley Crockett 5:21 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:21 It's the one thing. Well, and everybody go, "Oh, but they spent so much money. Why would they spend the money on that again?" Well, why, why would they spend money on all the things they spend money on?

Charley Crockett 5:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:29 Like what are you talking about? It doesn't make any sense. The, the moon is l- has trillions of dollars in rare minerals on it. There's all sorts of shit on the moon that would be very beneficial to society. And it was always gonna be that we were gonna have a base on the moon, then we were gonna use that to go to other places.

Charley Crockett 5:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:45 I don't think so.

Charley Crockett 5:46 (sniffs)

Joe Rogan 5:46 I mean if you look at the, just the, the way they filmed it, like when you watched it on television, the people that watched it on television, it was the first time ever there were, where there was a news thing where the, the news stations, the, the networks didn't have a direct feed-... what they had was, they filmed the moon landing. They, they showed it on a projection screen.

Charley Crockett 6:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:09 And then the networks pointed their camera at the projection screen. That's why it looked so shitty.

Charley Crockett 6:13 Mm. Wow. You, do you remember, there was a, a movie that came out, it wasn't that far back, and it's all about this. Like, a legit movie. And I f- I should remember this actor's name because he's getting better and better known. He's a really great actor. He played the, uh, he played the law man in Killers of the Flower Moon that shows up there at, at the, near the end, and finally-

Joe Rogan 6:37 I never watched that.

Charley Crockett 6:38 ... kinda takes them down. But he's been in a lot of other stuff, and it's this really great movie about faking the moon landing and-

Joe Rogan 6:45 Really?

Charley Crockett 6:45 ... all that stuff for, like, you know, American, kind of, um, cultural and economic dominance over Russia and all that.

Joe Rogan 6:52 Oh. So it's like a-

Charley Crockett 6:53 It's a re- it's recent.

Joe Rogan 6:54 Oh, okay.

Charley Crockett 6:55 And it was-

Joe Rogan 6:55 Hey, Jamie, can you tell Jeff to bring in some coffee? Oh. Yeah. Yeah. (sniffs) Um, so it's, um, so it's a doc- a drama. A drama.

Charley Crockett 7:02 It's a drama, yeah. It's a Hollywood, Hollywood movie.

Joe Rogan 7:05 Oh. Jamie'll find out what it is when he gets back. On his way.

Charley Crockett 7:08 Yeah. I only saw it once, but it was good. And you know this actor 'cause he's been everywhere, man. He's been in everything.

Joe Rogan 7:12 Okay.

Charley Crockett 7:12 I should know his name. I need to call him out. I think I saw him at the airport in Burbank a few months ago, actually. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:17 (laughs) It seems like a stupid thing to say, but I don't think it is. I don't thi- and then after COVID, realizing how much stuff they can lie about, how much stuff the government can hide, how much stuff that people will just accept as being true despite all the evidence to the contrary, how much experts will go along with things, how easy it is to keep a secret.

Charley Crockett 7:36 Mm.

Joe Rogan 7:37 It's not that hard to keep a secret. Especially a secret that is essentially set up to let us ... Thank you, sir.

Charley Crockett 7:44 Dang. That's how I know my wife stopped by.

Joe Rogan 7:46 Yerba mate?

Charley Crockett 7:46 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 7:47 Is that what you're into?

Charley Crockett 7:48 I love them, man.

Joe Rogan 7:48 Yeah, they're good.

Charley Crockett 7:49 You know why I like it, really?

Joe Rogan 7:50 What?

Charley Crockett 7:51 I didn't realize it for, like, a year or two, and now I realize it because it tastes just like Coca-Cola. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:56 It does? It really?

Charley Crockett 7:56 It does. It's close. I think that's the secret. It tastes like Coca-Cola.

Joe Rogan 8:01 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 8:01 You know?

Joe Rogan 8:02 I would like to try the original Coca-Cola with cocaine in it.

Charley Crockett 8:05 No shit.

Joe Rogan 8:06 I wonder what that was like.

Charley Crockett 8:07 Non, non, non-habit forming.

Joe Rogan 8:08 Yeah. Allegedly.

Charley Crockett 8:10 Right?

Joe Rogan 8:10 Yeah. Another lie. (laughs)

Charley Crockett 8:12 (laughs) Is it ... Do you ... Was it true, right? That, that Bayer, Bayer had first had heroin in it? Or opium?

Joe Rogan 8:19 Really?

Charley Crockett 8:19 The original version of it.

Joe Rogan 8:20 Bayer aspirin?

Charley Crockett 8:20 Yeah. Lo-

Joe Rogan 8:21 Really?

Charley Crockett 8:21 ... the, the, or the, the original product.

Joe Rogan 8:23 We'll find that out.

Charley Crockett 8:24 Yeah. I think it, I think it did.

Joe Rogan 8:25 Well, that makes sense.

Charley Crockett 8:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:26 I'm sure. That's real great for headaches.

Charley Crockett 8:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:29 (laughs) I mean, uh, more lies, right? How many times have we been lied to?

Charley Crockett 8:34 But, but you know what it is? It's, um, you know, I think it's, uh ... I'm preaching to the choir here. But I think it's a perception thing, right? With, uh, you know, it's like, planting that flag on the moon-

Joe Rogan 8:48 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 8:48 ... was a cultural thing.

Joe Rogan 8:50 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 8:50 You know? A, uh, an American pop culture thing.

Joe Rogan 8:54 Sure.

Charley Crockett 8:55 Right?

Joe Rogan 8:55 Well, they wanted us to be dominant militarily over Russia.

Charley Crockett 8:59 Shit worked.

Joe Rogan 9:00 Yeah. I mean, sorta kinda.

Charley Crockett 9:02 Kinda, I guess.

Joe Rogan 9:03 Yeah. I mean, we definitely are dominant over ... You know, militarily, we definitely were back then, essentially. I mean, we ... Here it is, heroin. Whoo. (snaps fingers) Wow. Bayer had heroin.

Charley Crockett 9:16 Non-habit forming.

Joe Rogan 9:18 Right.

Charley Crockett 9:18 You gotta get the non-habit forming kind.

Joe Rogan 9:21 But I mean, like, what is the difference between that and doctors prescribing OxyContin? It's not that much di- Sears Roebuck once sold heroin. Jesus Christ. Must've been a wild time back then.

Charley Crockett 9:32 Man, that's a great, uh ... (laughs) That's a great illustration there.

Joe Rogan 9:35 Yeah. Look at that. Two needles, two vials of heroin, only $1.50.

Charley Crockett 9:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:41 Less than $50 adjusted for inflation. Wow. This was in the 19th century. So the 1800 Sears catalog used to offer a heroin kit. I think the act you're talking about was Jesse Plemons, but I don't know what movie you're talking about.

Charley Crockett 9:52 That's him, bro. See if you can find it.

Joe Rogan 9:55 Jesse Plemons just Google moon.

Charley Crockett 9:57 You can type, yeah, moon, moon.

Joe Rogan 9:58 I did. Why, Flowers of Summer Moon keeps popping up. Flowers of Flower Moon.

Charley Crockett 10:01 But do, but do-

Joe Rogan 10:02 Oh.

Charley Crockett 10:03 ... boo- do space, um ...

Joe Rogan 10:07 It's just Flowers of the Sun. Hmm. Discovery? Discovery? That's 2015? No. 2017? 2017?

Charley Crockett 10:15 Try Jesse Plemons, uh, moon conspiracy or space conspiracy.

Joe Rogan 10:21 Huh. Are you sure it wasn't AI?

Charley Crockett 10:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:26 'Cause there's a lot of those. I, I, I thought Keanu Reeves really was in a new Dracula movie.

Charley Crockett 10:33 (sniffs) Hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:33 Fake? I don't ... No. No. I don't ... I'm just gonna look. I was ... Possibly fake? What was the other question we had? We had a, uh ... Oh, Bayer heroin. Yeah, man. They've been, you know, they've been tricking people for a long fucking time. You know, if they can make money, they'll trick you.

Charley Crockett 10:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:48 Back then, they were probably being tricked themselves. People didn't really understand what was addictive and what wasn't.

Charley Crockett 10:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:53 You know? Doctors used to recommend cigarettes for people with emphysema.

Charley Crockett 10:56 Mm-hmm. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 10:57 You got asthma?

Charley Crockett 10:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:58 You need cigarettes.

Charley Crockett 10:59 Yeah. They were drinking ... Athletes were drinking Coca-Cola on the s- on the, on the court. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:04 Well, you know who drinks Coca-Cola? Floyd Mayweather.

Charley Crockett 11:06 Uh.

Joe Rogan 11:06 Floyd Mayweather, after training, would drink Coca-Cola. And there's actually some science to that.

Charley Crockett 11:12 Mm.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Like having sugar, like right after a really hard workout-

Charley Crockett 11:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:15 ... actually replenishes it, rep- rep- replenishes glucose-

Charley Crockett 11:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:19 ... in the body.

Charley Crockett 11:19 Like Gatorade.

Joe Rogan 11:20 Yeah. It's probably not a bad idea. As long as you're like-

Charley Crockett 11:23 My wife's got me drinking Gatorade again.

Joe Rogan 11:25 That shit's not good for you.

Charley Crockett 11:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:27 Uh, there's, there's better versions of electrolytes.

Charley Crockett 11:29 Mm.

Joe Rogan 11:30 You know?

Charley Crockett 11:31 Yeah. You're right.

Joe Rogan 11:32 Electrolytes are good for you. Gatorade's okay. It's just, it's got a lot of shit in it, you know?

Charley Crockett 11:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:36 Corn syrup and ... All right. There you go. Here it is. Fly Me to the Moon. Channing Tatum. Oh. Channing Tatum. Eddie Harrelson. Is that it?

Charley Crockett 11:43 Oh, that's the one.

Joe Rogan 11:44 Scarlett Johansson. That's it?

Charley Crockett 11:46 Wait a second.

Joe Rogan 11:46 2024. Oh. 2024. So-

Charley Crockett 11:49 That's, oh, that's the one. Yeah. He's not, he's not even in it. No, he is in it, I think. But ...

Joe Rogan 11:53 Historical romantic comedy-drama. Huh. Tasked with creating a false moon landing. Apple TV. Didn't see it. Interesting.

Charley Crockett 12:03 What year was it?

Narrator 12:04 ... came out last year, like a year ago.

Joe Rogan 12:06 I never even heard of it.

Charley Crockett 12:07 Oh, I think it's still a good-

Joe Rogan 12:08 How do you have a movie with Channing Tatum and Scarlett Johansson-

Charley Crockett 12:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:11 ... and you never heard of it? Isn't that crazy? There's too many goddamn movies. Bro, you know what I saw last night?

Charley Crockett 12:16 I think I'm still thinking of a different one, but I, I never, there's another one.

Narrator 12:19 Yeah, I watched that movie last night.

Joe Rogan 12:20 There's another one? Really?

Charley Crockett 12:21 I think so. I saw it, man. It was a-

Narrator 12:22 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 12:23 It was, it was a wild movie and they, they find, they realize that, that the whole landing is, is being faked, and then they, and then, and then... I mean, I don't wanna spoil it, but you know, then they get taken out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:37 Oh.

Charley Crockett 12:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:39 Uh, apparently-

Charley Crockett 12:41 Moon landing, JFK. I mean, what's the damn difference?

Joe Rogan 12:44 Yeah, there's a lot of those, man.

Charley Crockett 12:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:45 There's a lot of... I mean, there's almost nothing... Vietnam, Gulf of Tonkin, there's almost nothing from history that's exactly as we're being told. Almost nothing.

Charley Crockett 12:54 Yeah. Co-

Joe Rogan 12:55 It's all a crock of shit.

Charley Crockett 12:56 It's Coke and Pepsi, you know, because... And I was thinking like, you know, that's the one thing that, that they did that everybody liked, and then they've kept that... As long as they keep that flavor-

Joe Rogan 13:09 Right.

Charley Crockett 13:09 ... right, you, they can, they can muscle everybody out. You know, it's like, those, like my, you know-

Joe Rogan 13:14 RC Cola, shit like that.

Charley Crockett 13:16 Ha.

Narrator 13:16 (sneezes)

Joe Rogan 13:16 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 13:16 Sure.

Joe Rogan 13:16 Nobody's into that.

Charley Crockett 13:18 Yeah, and only if you can't, couldn't afford the Coca-Cola price-

Joe Rogan 13:21 Right.

Charley Crockett 13:22 ... and the, you know, Coke machine.

Narrator 13:24 (sneezes) Excuse me.

Charley Crockett 13:24 Bless you.

Joe Rogan 13:25 Thank you.

Narrator 13:25 (sniffs)

Charley Crockett 13:25 When I was a kid, that was the only reason we drank RC Cola 'cause it was 25 cents.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Right, 'cause it was cheap. That's it. And you drank it and you knew it wasn't Coke.

Charley Crockett 13:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:34 Yeah. They tried New Coke. Do you remember that?

Charley Crockett 13:36 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 13:36 When I was a kid, God, I think I was in high school, they came out with a new formula of Coca-Cola, somewhere around the '80s I think. It was terrible.

Charley Crockett 13:45 Never had it.

Joe Rogan 13:45 They tried, they, they tried-

Charley Crockett 13:46 They rioted.

Joe Rogan 13:46 ... New Coke and everybody's like, "What the fuck are you doing? Why would you get rid of Coke? It's perfect."

Charley Crockett 13:50 Yeah, don't change that. They can-

Joe Rogan 13:52 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 13:52 ... they can change and try everything else and buy everybody out, as long as they keep Coca-Cola flowing.

Joe Rogan 13:58 (sniffs) Yeah, and then Pepsi's always like for weirdos.

Charley Crockett 14:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:00 People who prefer Pepsi.

Charley Crockett 14:01 I never liked it.

Joe Rogan 14:02 Yeah, it's weird.

Charley Crockett 14:03 I like Dr. Pepper.

Joe Rogan 14:04 Well, you know, Coca-Cola is, to this day, flavored with cocaine. Do you know that?

Charley Crockett 14:10 You mean like...

Joe Rogan 14:11 The coca leaves, that's the secret to the flavor of Coca-Cola.

Charley Crockett 14:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:15 Coca-Cola, the company that makes Coca-Cola, they are the biggest producers of medical grade cocaine.

Charley Crockett 14:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:24 For real.

Charley Crockett 14:25 Wow.

Joe Rogan 14:25 So they take the coca leaves, they extract the flavonoids out of the coca leaves and they extract the cocaine. So there's no cocaine in Coca-Cola, but then they take those-

Charley Crockett 14:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 14:35 ... coca leaves and the flavor goes into Coca-Cola, and then the cocaine goes into medical cocaine.

Charley Crockett 14:41 Wow.

Joe Rogan 14:41 Yeah. To this day.

Charley Crockett 14:44 Wow.

Joe Rogan 14:44 I think they're the only company that's allowed to use coca leaves. I think they're grandfathered in. I think that's exact... Is, is that how it works? I, I believe they're grandfathered in, but-

Charley Crockett 14:55 (sniffs)

Joe Rogan 14:56 ... to this day, that's what they use. As I sniff, as I sniffle. But these are real sniffles, folks. These are allergy sniffles.

Charley Crockett 15:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:04 I watched the fucking craziest movie last night, The Substance. Have you heard of that movie?

Charley Crockett 15:08 I've heard of it.

Joe Rogan 15:09 That's that new Demi Moore movie.

Charley Crockett 15:11 Yeah, I was af- afraid to watch it.

Joe Rogan 15:12 Holy shit, man.

Charley Crockett 15:13 It's intense.

Joe Rogan 15:14 Oh my god. One of the most insane movies I've ever seen in my life.

Charley Crockett 15:17 Mm.

Joe Rogan 15:18 It's about this lady who's getting older and, uh, someone approaches her with this new experimental drug that allows you to live as a young person for seven days, and then you have to switch back to the old person for seven days. I don't wanna spoil it for anybody, but it was fucking insane.

Charley Crockett 15:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 15:35 Like, like I left... I was like, "I gotta watch something stupid on YouTube for a couple of hours-"

Charley Crockett 15:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:39 "... before I go to bed because I'm, I'm weirded out by this movie."

Charley Crockett 15:42 Yeah, that's the reason I haven't watched it yet, before our time is still... The, it was... that's the... I'm just saying.

Joe Rogan 15:47 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 15:47 You gotta sc- it... I never liked, I never liked the, like the sensory overload, like horror movies.

Joe Rogan 15:54 Oh, yeah.

Charley Crockett 15:54 I like classic horror movies.

Joe Rogan 15:56 This is a sensory overload times 10.

Charley Crockett 15:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:58 I mean, it's, it's fucking insane. It's an insane movie. It's really good. I mean, it, it really grips you. It's very entertaining, but just good lord.

Charley Crockett 16:06 Have you seen, uh, um, Uncut Gems?

Joe Rogan 16:10 Yes. Love that movie.

Charley Crockett 16:12 Isn't that a good movie?

Joe Rogan 16:13 Oh my god.

Charley Crockett 16:13 It was like a little much for me, but it was so good and it wasn't so crazy, you know?

Joe Rogan 16:18 Yeah. Well, I grew up with a lot of gambling addicts, so for that movie, that movie like really hit home for me. I was like, "Oh god, geez, like got anxieties and..."

Charley Crockett 16:27 Howard? Is that his name? Howie Howard? You know, uh, Sandler's character?

Joe Rogan 16:31 Is that what his name is? Howie?

Charley Crockett 16:32 Yeah, and he's a-

Joe Rogan 16:33 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 16:33 ... he's selling diamonds on 42nd Street or whatever.

Joe Rogan 16:35 Yeah, yeah.

Charley Crockett 16:36 That's, that's, uh, that's, that's (laughs) , that's every manager in the music business is that guy.

Joe Rogan 16:40 Oh, really?

Charley Crockett 16:40 A lot of them. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:41 Bunch of gambling addicts?

Charley Crockett 16:42 That, they're that guy right there, you know? They're-

Joe Rogan 16:44 God.

Charley Crockett 16:45 ... they're juggling all these balls in front of you-

Joe Rogan 16:47 Oh.

Charley Crockett 16:47 ... which is fine. I don't mind guys juggling. What I don't like is when somebody's got all these balls in the air, they're juggling in front of me and they're like, "Charlie, I'm not juggling." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:55 Oh, yeah, the music business. Yeah, well, there he is. He's great in that movie, too.

Charley Crockett 17:00 Man, it's just, yeah, he's incredible.

Joe Rogan 17:02 You know, I never knew he could act dramatically, you know?

Charley Crockett 17:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:05 I mean, he's always been great in comedies but, uh, he's, he's incredible in that movie. Incredible, I mean it's-

Charley Crockett 17:09 He had another one he did, real, that was like a serious flick way back. You remember Punch-Drunk Love? Did you ever see that one?

Joe Rogan 17:14 No, I never saw that.

Charley Crockett 17:15 That's a masterpiece.

Joe Rogan 17:16 Yeah? I never saw it. Yeah.

Charley Crockett 17:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:18 But Uncut Gems, the, the gambling aspect of it, like that sickness.

Charley Crockett 17:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:22 That, the gambling sickness is a wild sickness.

Charley Crockett 17:25 I grew up around gamblers too.

Joe Rogan 17:26 Yeah?

Charley Crockett 17:26 Yeah, my uncles was, was always a big gambler and, uh, my cousin has spent a lot of time in casinos with him down in New Orleans on the Mississippi coast and all that, and-

Joe Rogan 17:35 Oh, riverboat gamblers.

Charley Crockett 17:37 Man, yep, exactly.

Joe Rogan 17:38 Those are the craziest. (laughs)

Charley Crockett 17:39 Man, I didn't, I didn't, I, I didn't mind, you know? He let (laughs) , he let my, me and my cousin run all, run all over the place. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:45 Oh, well...

Charley Crockett 17:45 So we were, we were stoked, you know?

Joe Rogan 17:47 So you liked the fact that he was a degenerate? (laughs)

Charley Crockett 17:49 Yeah. Oh, and anytime he won, like if he won big, we used to play his bingo... He used to run this bingo hall in, uh, in New Orleans. And me and my cousin, we got, we could... Both of us with those bingo daubers, we could play like, we could play n- nine card pages for him. We got that good that we could keep up with it.

Joe Rogan 18:07 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 18:08 And because he was running the place, nobody in there ever said shit about me and my cousin being like, you know, eight and 11 or whatever. And if we hit though...It was always a good time. It was Toys"R"Us and-

Joe Rogan 18:19 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 18:20 ... fried shrimp. (laughs)

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Charley Crockett 19:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:49 I, I grew up, uh, around a lot of pool halls and, um, you know, when I was in my early 20s.

Charley Crockett 19:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:54 And I was just around so many people that just lived for gambling. They would go straight from off-track betting right to the pool hall and, you know, they'd bet on anything.

Charley Crockett 20:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:04 They'd bet on two raindrops coming down a windowpane.

Charley Crockett 20:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:06 They'd bet on roaches. They'd bet on anything.

Charley Crockett 20:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:09 A- any... You name it. They'd flip a coin for 10... I saw dudes flip a coin for thousands of dollars.

Charley Crockett 20:13 Uh.

Joe Rogan 20:14 They'd, uh... A guy would win a tournament. Like, this is, like, a famous thing in pool. Guys would elin- win a tournament, win $10,000, flip a coin, lose the whole thing.

Charley Crockett 20:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:22 And you had to have heart. You had to be will- like, that was, like, part of the culture.

Charley Crockett 20:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:26 You had to be willing to bet.

Charley Crockett 20:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:27 And e- everybody's alwa- 'cause the, the only way it's fun-

Charley Crockett 20:29 And take the loss.

Joe Rogan 20:30 Yeah. The only way it's fun is if money's constantly flowing. So if someone's trying to be conservative, someone trying to save the money, they called them a nit.

Charley Crockett 20:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:37 Like, "You're a nit." They didn't like you.

Charley Crockett 20:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:39 You know? Nobody likes a nit.

Charley Crockett 20:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:41 Like, those are, those are the guys that get shunned by the pool hall. They, they're a bad action.

Charley Crockett 20:45 Where'd you grow up?

Joe Rogan 20:46 Well, all over the place really. But, uh-

Charley Crockett 20:49 Where were those pool halls?

Joe Rogan 20:50 New J- New York.

Charley Crockett 20:51 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:51 I moved to New York when I was in my 20s, my early 20s, like 23.

Charley Crockett 20:55 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:55 And that's when I got indoctrinated into pool culture.

Charley Crockett 20:59 Wow.

Joe Rogan 21:00 Yeah. It was just the most fun group of degenerates and weirdos and outcasts. And, you know, as a comedian, I never felt like I fit in in normal society.

Charley Crockett 21:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:11 You know, and then I'm around those dudes, I'm like, "Oh, okay, you guys are just like me."

Charley Crockett 21:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:15 "You don't fit in either." Like-

Charley Crockett 21:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:17 ... "You're a bunch of fucking weirdos."

Charley Crockett 21:18 Man, you know a thing? I- what I just thought about, Joe, when I was on the street in New York, I was, you know, I played up there and I, I'm sure you know, but, um, I'd play on the street all day and at first I was playing in the parks, and then I went, moved downtown, I was trying to play on street corners in the villages and all that, and you're dealing with traffic and cops. And that's what drove me down into the, into the subway platforms, and those were really competitive too. So even there I started playing at the stations that nobody wanted or, you know, weren't desirable or weren't, you know, nobody's really competing for the spots or whatever. Um, and I would do that all day and then I would hit open mics all over the five boroughs every night, everywhere. Um, and the comedy, the comedy guys were always the coolest because all of them, because we weren't in competition.

Joe Rogan 22:13 Right.

Charley Crockett 22:13 You know, like, I know comedians can be really competitive on the circuit, and obviously same thing on the music side, but I ended up, like, playing a lot of... I would open up for a lot of guys, like I'm, like, at The Red Door and, like, in the circuit there in the city and shit.

Joe Rogan 22:27 Oh, cool.

Charley Crockett 22:28 Open guys up with two or three songs or play their breaks or whatever, and, you know, all the comedy folks liked me, I think, because, uh, you know, I wasn't one of them.

Joe Rogan 22:36 Yeah, no.

Charley Crockett 22:36 We were cousins or something.

Joe Rogan 22:38 Right, right. That's, there's always been a relationship like that. Like, Oliver Anthony was at The Mothership this weekend.

Charley Crockett 22:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:43 And it were the first music act we've ever had perform there.

Charley Crockett 22:46 That's cool.

Joe Rogan 22:47 Yeah. You could perform there too if you ever want to, man. That'd be fun.

Charley Crockett 22:49 I know where it's at.

Joe Rogan 22:49 Yeah, it'd be fun.

Charley Crockett 22:50 I like that you've got it down there, man, you know?

Joe Rogan 22:52 It's, it's a great spot. 6th Street is just a, such a fucking wild place.

Charley Crockett 22:56 It is.

Joe Rogan 22:56 So to have it right there is perfect. And to have it at the old Ritz, i- uh, yeah, it's amazing. So, you know, it was great having all of that.

Charley Crockett 23:03 Is that, is that what it is? It's in the old Ritz?

Joe Rogan 23:05 Yeah. Yeah, we bought the old Ritz.

Charley Crockett 23:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:08 Yeah. We have to keep the Ritz sign 'cause it's, uh, you know, one of those historical buildings.

Charley Crockett 23:12 Oh, it's a great sign.

Joe Rogan 23:13 Oh, it's a great sign.

Charley Crockett 23:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:14 It's got so much history. In the tunnel on the way to the stage, there's a big picture of, uh, Stevie Ray Vaughan on the stage in 1983.

Charley Crockett 23:22 Man, ah.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 23:24 You like SRV?

Joe Rogan 23:25 Fuck yeah.

Charley Crockett 23:25 Come on.

Joe Rogan 23:26 Come on, man.

Charley Crockett 23:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:27 Come on. He's the only dude that can play Voodoo Child that doesn't make me sick.

Charley Crockett 23:30 Man.

Joe Rogan 23:31 You know? Other than Hendrix?

Charley Crockett 23:32 That's right.

Joe Rogan 23:33 Just two dudes.

Charley Crockett 23:33 Yeah, you're right.

Joe Rogan 23:34 You know? Hendrix and him.

Charley Crockett 23:35 That's it.

Joe Rogan 23:35 I mean, other peop- I'm sure other people can do it. I've never heard it.

Charley Crockett 23:37 No, fuck that. This thing. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:40 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 23:42 Oh yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 23:43 Yeah. There's certain songs-

Charley Crockett 23:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:44 There's certain songs that you can't fuck with. Although I did see, one time I saw Honey Honey and Gary Clark Jr. play Midnight Rider, and I didn't think anybody else could play Midnight Rider.

Charley Crockett 23:54 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:54 And, uh, to hear Gary's song with Midnight Rider with that? You know, like, Gary's signature sound?

Charley Crockett 24:00 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 24:00 Yeah, that signature guitar sound?

Charley Crockett 24:01 You've seen Gary? You've bet- you've seen Gary live?

Joe Rogan 24:04 Oh, yeah, I'm friends with Gary.

Charley Crockett 24:05 Man, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:06 I've seen him a bunch of times.

Charley Crockett 24:06 Yeah, I love Gary too.

Joe Rogan 24:07 I love that dude.

Charley Crockett 24:09 That guy-

Joe Rogan 24:09 He's so good.

Charley Crockett 24:10 Man, I remember he-

Joe Rogan 24:11 Oh, I gave something to him, and I got it for you too.

Charley Crockett 24:13 What is it?

Joe Rogan 24:14 This is a real genuine wooly mammoth guitar pick that is made out of wooly mammoth tusk.

Charley Crockett 24:23 Damn, that is-

Joe Rogan 24:24 That is-

Charley Crockett 24:24 ... something fierce, bud.

Joe Rogan 24:25 ... 10,000 plus years old.

Charley Crockett 24:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:28 None of... That's, uh, shout-out to my friend, John Reaves, from the Boneyard in Alaska. I got a buddy of mine who has this, uh, spot in Alaska where they just pull all kinds of crazy mastodon, wooly mammoth, b- fucking cave bear, all kinds of skulls, and all kinds of wild shit out of this one piece of property where a lot of animals died, and he's taken a lot of the wooly mammoth. That's where I got this too. This is a tooth. This is a tooth that was carved-

Charley Crockett 24:53 Wow.

Joe Rogan 24:54 ... into, uh, a piece of art with a mammoth in it.

Charley Crockett 24:57 That is a big old goddamn tooth, son.

Joe Rogan 24:58 Pssh, imagine.

Charley Crockett 24:59 Can I see that?

Joe Rogan 25:00 Yeah, yeah.

Charley Crockett 25:00 How heavy that is?

Joe Rogan 25:01 Isn't that crazy?

Charley Crockett 25:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:02 That's crazy, right?

Charley Crockett 25:03 It's beautiful too, man.

Joe Rogan 25:04 Yeah. So that-

Charley Crockett 25:05 It's cool.

Joe Rogan 25:05 ... that guitar pick is yours, brother.

Charley Crockett 25:07 Man, thanks, Joe.

Joe Rogan 25:07 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 25:08 I-

Joe Rogan 25:08 Any cool p- guys who play guitar, give 'em one of them picks.

Charley Crockett 25:11 Well, you know, I've never been good at holding a, holding a pick. Um, 'cause I we- I learned how to play with my hands, and I... Because I could never hold a pick well, but some of the... A lot of guys I know that are really great pickers, they play these really hard picks, you know, and can... Real precise with 'em, and I just... I still can't hold 'em.

Joe Rogan 25:29 You s- you learned with your fingers?

Charley Crockett 25:31 Yeah. Yeah, I never, never hel- I just couldn't hold a pick. I would try to hold it and it'd get sideways, and I never... Like, all this, you know, like, the straight cowboy chords, you know, C, F, G, whatever. Um, I couldn't hold any of those chords, like, when I was teaching myself. The positioning was weird for me, you know? And so, like, I kinda threw away the book, and I did what you call choking the chicken on the, on the fret, you know? Kinda hold it like you're choking a chicken.

Joe Rogan 26:00 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 26:01 And that's kinda where I developed my style, and then I learned all the regular chords many years later. (laughs) You know?

Joe Rogan 26:07 Did you... Is, are you totally self-taught?

Charley Crockett 26:09 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:10 Wow. When did you start?

Charley Crockett 26:12 Um, (smacks lips) uh, I was 17. My mama got me a guitar out of a pawn shop in South Irving.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Wow.

Charley Crockett 26:20 It was a Hohner guitar.

Joe Rogan 26:22 And you just started messing around with it?

Charley Crockett 26:24 Yeah. Yeah, you know, my mama had tried to get me on the piano when I was younger, and I just couldn't focus, and, um... Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 26:35 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 26:35 17 was like the right age. I, I needed it, you know? Uh, started banging around on that guitar, and, and I mean, it must've sounded terrible.

Joe Rogan 26:43 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 26:44 And, and we... Me and my, me and my mama lived in this little ass place, this tiny place, and I didn't... I was like scared to play in front of her, you know? But it... But I was at first, and I would say, "Mama, am I any good?" You know? And she wasn't gonna lie to me, and she said, "Well, son, when you play, people will believe you." She wasn't gonna lie to me and tell me I was good. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:05 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 27:05 But she was trying to say, you know, "Just be honest with your music and the rest will take care of it." So...

Joe Rogan 27:10 That's great advice.

Charley Crockett 27:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:11 "When you play, people will believe you."

Charley Crockett 27:13 That's what she said.

Joe Rogan 27:14 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 27:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:15 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 27:16 Yup. And then the next time anybody believed in me wasn't until I started hitchhiking, and I remember 'cause I'd been out in California a bunch recently, and it was... I had caught a ride with this guy. We were playing at this place called The Shanty up in, uh, Farmer's Branch in the Dallas-Fort Worth areas years ago, and there was this witch lady that... I mean, they called her a witch. This kind of, um, (smacks lips) kind of magic woman who had a barn out behind her house, and they called it The Shanty, and she would have people over on the weekends and just kind of any random night, travelers, misfits, whatever, back there in the barn, and everybody'd be telling stories, and trading songs, and, you know, taking potions.

Joe Rogan 28:04 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 28:05 (laughs) Stuff like that. Long story short, this guy I met one night, his parents had like worked... They worked for like Texas Instruments, and he had disowned them, you know, because his parents were like scientists, and he woke up one day as a young man and realized they were like... His parents were manufacturing like weapons, you know, and I'd never ... saw this guy again, but that was his whole deal why he left Texas.

Joe Rogan 28:28 Oh, wow.

Charley Crockett 28:29 And he was just back visiting this, this gal that had this Shanty deal, and, uh, I talked that guy... That he prom-... He would... He was describing this town of Boonville, uh, which is this community in Mendocino County, Northern California, and, uh, the way he was describing it to me at this... In this barn or whatever, it sounded like a Garden of Eden or something. You know what I mean? Like-

Joe Rogan 28:55 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 28:55 And, and I'd wanted so badly to go with him, and he promised me and this other guy that was playing guitar too that he would take us, and we passed out at the lady's house, and when we woke up that next morning, he was still there. And I was like, "Man, you ready to go to California?" And he was like, "What are you talking about?"

Joe Rogan 29:09 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 29:11 (laughs) "What are you talking about?" Like, when I pressed him, he's like, "Man, I was on acid."

Joe Rogan 29:16 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 29:17 (laughs) "I was on acid. I, I don't remember any of that. I don't have any room for you."

Joe Rogan 29:22 Uh-huh.

Charley Crockett 29:22 And I, I begged that... I begged him like my life depended on it, and he took me and this old boy who was playing guitar, actually taught me a lot of songs back then. He took us to California. Uh, but as we got closer to Boonville, and we were talking, two naive young Texas boys who had never been anywhere, he realized that he, you know, didn't want us going anywhere near those hippies he was living with there in Boonville. So, (laughs) he left us, like, at a... He pulled into like a grocery store and left us in this parking lot in Vacaville, and that's when I really started hitchhiking in my life is like when we kinda got abandoned in a parking lot.

Joe Rogan 29:58 Wow.

Charley Crockett 29:58 Kind of along the 5, right?

Joe Rogan 29:59 How old were you?

Charley Crockett 30:01 20... 1, probably 22, something like that. And I had done some hi- a little bit of hitching before, like around the South Texas and like Louisiana, but I'd never really been way out there. And, uh, anyway, I started hitchhiking around, um, 'cause I had to, but I remember it was in California the first time, about anybody besides my mama, ever looked at me playing guitar as it having any kind of value, you know? Like, any economic value or like, it was a, it was a...... a trade of, you know, recognition, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:39 Mm.

Charley Crockett 30:39 It was kind of the, was the first time I was out there, out there.

Joe Rogan 30:43 So, you had been playing about four, four or five years back then?

Charley Crockett 30:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:46 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 30:47 I was playing outside because our place was so small. I wasn't playing outside to, like, make money or anything like that. I would go to this park, had like a baseball diamond on it, sit on these bleachers or whatever. And I'll never forget, the first time anybody threw, like, just a pocket full of change in my case, I'm sure it's because they, you know, were worried about me (laughs) and felt bad for me-

Joe Rogan 31:11 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 31:12 ... or what- or whatever. You know? And it wasn't like that, it wasn't like that money hit the case and, and not like a light went off or anything, you know? It was a slow, it was a slow, gradual deal. Like, I was playing outside because there was, you know, there wasn't enough room to play in the hou- in the house or whatever, you know? And then, you know, I got in a lot of trouble with the law, um, which kinda put me on the run, put me on the road. And-

Joe Rogan 31:42 What was the trouble with the law?

Charley Crockett 31:44 Uh, you know, my, I've said it a lot, and it's funny, I'm a lot better known than I used to be, so it's like you say stuff about your family and they hear about it and ...

Joe Rogan 31:54 They get mad.

Charley Crockett 31:55 They get mad.

Joe Rogan 31:56 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 31:56 But, uh, (laughs) it's so funny 'cause it's all over the internet, and, uh, they're the ones that had the government on their ass, not me. But anyways, yeah, we just kinda, you know, shit hit the fan, got up in the newspapers. My brother didn't go to high school, you know? Neither did my sister, neither of them went to high school. They both dropped out, you know, 'cause I'm from South Texas, I was born in the Rio Grande Valley, they were born up in Dallas, but my mama had moved down there to, uh, South Padre Island area, McAllen, Harlingen area there. And, um, anyway, it's poor and pretty hard living down there and, you know, hell, I didn't wear shoes til I was probably nine or ten years old, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:33 Really?

Charley Crockett 32:33 Playing outside and ... My brother and sister, they're ten years older than me, half-brother and -sister, and, uh, we have different daddies, and, uh, they really lived wild, you know? It was just, things were pretty, pretty tough back then or whatever. I'm telling you that background because my brother became a hustler, you know, because he had to, because of a lack of education, lack of access, you know, 'cause of poverty, um, and I've honestly always respected him for that, you know? Um, he took, he used to take me around door-to-door selling newspapers when I was 11, right? And you wanna know why? 'Cause I had, I had broken my arm, and he realized if you carted that young boy out in front of those pe- those apartments when that lady answered the door, and it's these two brothers and one of them's got a broken arm, she's gonna buy the, she's gonna go ahead and subscribe. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:24 Yeah. She feels bad.

Charley Crockett 33:26 You know? Yeah. In, in a, in a, in a nutshell, man, he, you know, through all that stuff, you know, he, he started out as a door-to-door salesman, you know, hustling newspaper subscriptions, right? Then he started, like, selling neckties and, like, men's clothing door-to-door in downtown Dallas office buildings, you know? And, as a very young man. And eventually he graduated to, you know, hard knock, boiler room type of guys. You know, you keep knocking on those doors in that Wild West business scene of towns like Dallas, you know, or Houston, you know, eventually you're gonna find what you're looking for. And he got in with some big old wolves, you know? And eventually it, it knocked everybody out and a lot of people died, a lot of people w- went to prison. And, um, you know, we were in the paper, and, uh, I couldn't... I found myself not being able to get a bank account and nobody I knew would go near me, you know? And-

Joe Rogan 34:27 Wow.

Charley Crockett 34:27 Um, so it ended up being like a Bob Marley type of thing, you know? Like, you know he said, uh, "If you're not living good, travel wide."

Joe Rogan 34:34 Mm.

Charley Crockett 34:35 Right? And I literally just walked out of town because, you know, we had scarlet letters on our chests and that's when I, that's when I really started learning how to stand behind that guitar and write songs and slowly but surely start... I, I learned how to play basically in front of people, and people just were giving me money, kinda, over time. That and, you know, food and shelter in exchange for my story at their back door.

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Charley Crockett 35:38 You know?

Joe Rogan 35:38 Do you ever wonder, like, how things could've gone? 'Cause things turned out great.

Charley Crockett 35:44 Mm.

Joe Rogan 35:44 Like, look, you're a popular m- music artist now.

Charley Crockett 35:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:47 You know? Worldwide. You're famous.

Charley Crockett 35:50 I'm surprised I, I'm... You know what I'm surprised by? I'm surprised I never got heavily addicted to drugs.

Joe Rogan 35:55 Yeah?

Charley Crockett 35:55 I am. You know? It was my, my sister passed away 10 years ago from substances and hard living and all that kind of stuff, and hell, my whole family's in AA. Everybody, top to bottom, left to right, turn 'em inside out. I think about it a lot, but I really do, you know? And I remember I was living with that guy who, uh, was at the shanty that was playing guitar. He was on the football team. I knew him from sports. His name, his name was Daniel Harmon. And he went out there to California with me that first time, and we were living on farms and I was working for ganja farmers, uh, working on horse farms, working for g- uh, uh, wine makers, all kind of people. You know? Just, just doing grunt work for them. Doing the fence work.... they, they, they didn't wanna do. Moving soil for people, you know what I mean? Digging ditches, you know, laying p- pipe across really hard, you know, rocky roads. Nu- anything anybody can do, you just need, you know, broad, back, and a, you know, b- to be young. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:54 Right.

Charley Crockett 36:55 And, um, but before I ever left Texas, I moved in with his, his sister, and I remember ... And she was just my friend. I was never in a relationship with her or anything. But she was working at Silver City in West Dallas, the Gentlemen's Club, at 18, and making more money than anybody I'd ever seen. The girl was 18, you know, and just making crazy, crazy money, and I was liv- she let me rent a room from her and kinda gave me a deal and all that, and, uh, I ended up writing a song kind of about it more recently called Easy Money that I did with Shooter on this- on The Lonesome Drifter record. And that's kinda the thing, you know, if you're a poor kid from Texas, there's no such thing, you know, as easy money. But, um, not, I can't remember why I was telling you that, but, um, it was hard on ... I just remember, like, seeing, you'd see, like, young women working in strip clubs, making big money, and the ones that I was around and have been around, very, very hard for that line of work, my line of work, your line of work, not to become addicted.

Joe Rogan 38:11 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 38:11 You know? And I don't have a problem with, uh, you know, a lot of the best, shit, most, most, best artists I ever saw, like, struggled, struggled with addiction, you know. Um, but I have, in that way, I have been very fortunate, very, very fortunate that I-

Joe Rogan 38:23 How did you avoid it?

Charley Crockett 38:26 I don't know. You know what it is, man? I never had no kinda, I ne- rec- no how t- had no kind of tolerance, you know? I'm s- I've always been, like, I can just get drunk off of one drink.

Joe Rogan 38:36 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 38:37 (laughs) And it's never changed.

Joe Rogan 38:39 Well-

Charley Crockett 38:39 I just felt it all, like, really strong, you know? Like ...

Joe Rogan 38:41 That's probably good.

Charley Crockett 38:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:43 Maybe it's a survival instinct too.

Charley Crockett 38:45 I've never really thought about why, you know, but I have considered it 'cause my brother's been through ... You know, he, he did a lot of time in prison, and, you know, my, let me see, my, my sister had ... And my mama, you know what I mean? They both had their first kid, you know, when they were teenagers, you know?

Joe Rogan 39:03 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 39:04 Um, a lot of it, I do credit to my mama, you know? It's like, you know, she told me something I remember that stuck with me. I've been saying this all the time, Joe. And, like, we had a lot of trouble in our family and a lot of people that we knew, a lot of dysfunction, lot of trauma. Um, but when my, my mama kinda got out of that, she kind of is the person in the family that said, "I'm gonna change the trajectory of this line in, now, in my generation." You know? And she didn't have an education, and, um, you know, she took herself back to school after I was born. Um, you know, and cleaned up her act and, and, and, and got out of it, and, and isolated me from a lot of that shit. And, um, which I think is a big part of the reason that I maybe didn't-

Joe Rogan 39:57 Right, you had a role model.

Charley Crockett 39:58 ... wasn't ... Yeah, I had a role model.

Joe Rogan 40:00 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 40:00 You know? I di- there was no male role models, at lea- not at home.

Joe Rogan 40:03 Right.

Charley Crockett 40:03 They were only, they were only pro athletes and coaches at school, you know? I mean, it's increasingly difficult for young men to find strong men of courage and vision that can help them grow into good men too. I mean, it's im- it's almo- it seems almost impossible these days. It's unbelievable, right?

Joe Rogan 40:22 It's very difficult to find in your personal life.

Charley Crockett 40:24 It's hard, man.

Joe Rogan 40:25 You have to l- find it in other ways. You have to find it people online or people in the world-

Charley Crockett 40:31 I found it in athletes, in-

Joe Rogan 40:32 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 40:32 ... in, in, um, like, uh, like excellence in, like, athletics.

Joe Rogan 40:42 Right.

Charley Crockett 40:43 You know? Um-

Joe Rogan 40:44 Where the only way you can get there is hard work.

Charley Crockett 40:46 Yeah. And, uh, odds are stacked against you.

Joe Rogan 40:49 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 40:49 And it requires incredible focus. I mean, I just-

Joe Rogan 40:52 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 40:52 ... I think that's why I- I'm always so, so, you know, in such awe of, of those people when they're able to, um, succeed like that. But what I wanted to say to you that my mama said, she said, "What happened to you when you were young was not your fault, but now you're a man, and it's your responsibility."

Joe Rogan 41:13 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 41:14 And I've been living, I've been living off of that, you know, for a long time, you know? 'Cause it's like, if you don't take responsibility at some point, man, it'll, it'll, it'll never leave you alone.

Joe Rogan 41:25 Right. You can't think that you're a victim. Yeah. You can't think that it's not your fault. You gotta take responsibility. And that's hard for people to accept when they know they've been victimized-

Charley Crockett 41:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:36 ... when they know they've been dealt a shitty hand of cards. You can just kinda wallow in it.

Charley Crockett 41:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:42 But that's a trap.

Charley Crockett 41:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:44 That's a trap that'll fuck you up.

Charley Crockett 41:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:46 It'll fuck up everybody around you too.

Charley Crockett 41:48 Damn right.

Joe Rogan 41:49 Yeah. But it's a mindset thing. It's like you can, you can think your way out of that. You just y- you have to have an example though. Either you have to be your own example, or you have to find a v- find an example of someone else who thought their way out of it.

Charley Crockett 42:01 Mm-hmm. And for my br- you know, for my brother, for all the trouble that he's been in, you know, in a way, like, you know, he- I think he was trying to, he also was trying to help me, you know? And so, you know, his hustle and his work ethic in another sense, you know, was ... That's been helpful to me too, you know, 'cause I remember he used to hand out flyers and shit all over the place. And when I'd be like a teenager, he'd be like, he'd be like, "Listen to me now. If you go, if you leave an event at the other day that you're handing out flyers and you're flooding it with promotion, if you can even see that pavement underneath the, you know, pamphlets that you're handing out, you didn't promote it."

Joe Rogan 42:41 Wow.

Charley Crockett 42:42 (laughs) That's what he used to tell me when I was, like, 15, 16. And that all has com- that mentality came in handy for me because, you know, I was just a street performer, just an itinerant performer. And, um, you know, I did have to learn how to market myself, you know, and, and, um, part of the reason that I was... Man, sometimes being underestimated is, like, the best thing that could happen to you, you know, because I think one of the biggest challenges for,

Charley Crockett 43:12 like, in the music industry at least, is that the way the business works now is they're almost exclusively b- you know... Y- y- you ever seen Moneyball? The Brad Pitt flick, Moneyball?

Joe Rogan 43:26 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 43:26 Right?

Joe Rogan 43:27 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 43:27 How they, you know, they introduce that concept of r- looking at the data to, like, maximize the potential of the athletes and all that kind of stuff, which has totally changed the game, you know, all the games. Uh, I kinda call it money guitar, right, which is like, you know, the business is seeding the young amateur, and for the way that they spend and invest and can move on if it doesn't work out, it's like kind of a, you know, it's kind of a pump and dump, you know?

Joe Rogan 43:59 Right, right.

Charley Crockett 43:59 And the thing about that, uh, uh, and it works. Like, if somebody has a, you know, if somebody, like some of these guys that you mentioned, Oliver Anthony and some of these guys, they have a viral hit out of nowhere, they've never played a venue or anything in their life, you know, um, it can happen really fast. And then, obviously, there's tremendous challenges, w- you know, down the line trying to keep that, you know, astronomical, you know, quick rise up there. Um, but back in the day, the business deals weren't any good. You know that. They were terrible.

Joe Rogan 44:36 Right.

Charley Crockett 44:37 What they were good about though, in a lot of cases, was developing these artists on these rosters, even if they were taking advantage of these poor farm boys, taking advantage, you know, of, you know, poor Black artists from the South, or women, or whatever. Nobody was getting a good deal basically. But, you know, like, guys like Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings, those guys were making two, three records a year.

Joe Rogan 45:03 Wow.

Charley Crockett 45:03 You know? And you think about when Waylon breaks through, right, in the mid '70s, you know, and like as he's doing, you know, coming into his own in seven- 1974, 1975, I mean, how many records in is he at that point, you know?

Joe Rogan 45:21 Wow.

Charley Crockett 45:21 He's-

Joe Rogan 45:22 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 45:22 How many... I mean, you know, Waylon's Red Headed Stranger, which revolutionized country music or, like, the Outlaws compilation record that the two of them were on together, which was basically a compilation and kinda marketed as the Outlaws subgenre, um, you know, those guys were 15, 16, 17 records in, you know?

Joe Rogan 45:46 Right.

Charley Crockett 45:47 Areth- Aretha Franklin popped off on her ninth or tenth record.

Joe Rogan 45:50 Wow.

Charley Crockett 45:51 You know? And these, most of these artists, the way the business works, they won't make nine or ten records in their career.

Joe Rogan 45:57 Right.

Charley Crockett 45:58 That's crazy to me.

Joe Rogan 45:59 That is crazy. And what better way to develop than to just keep constantly producing new music and learn along the way?

Charley Crockett 46:05 And, and being neglected or misunderstood by their business when I was first dealing with it, that was the- it was a really, a s- really a blessing because I ended up making so many records, you know?

Joe Rogan 46:20 Yeah. The music business has always been so predatory.

Charley Crockett 46:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:26 But it's, it's, it's like it's th- the way I describe a lot of things. It's like when you get something that's good combined with a bunch of people that want to make money off that something that's good.

Charley Crockett 46:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:36 You know, whether it's medicine or whether it's music, or even in comedy, you get the same thing. You get a bunch of people that just think they can make money off you.

Charley Crockett 46:46 Man, I always thought comedy was the hardest. I always figured it was the hardest, right? Th- 'cause you mean, like, you gotta make them laugh or they're gonna fucking kill you.

Joe Rogan 46:53 And you have new shit all the time.

Charley Crockett 46:55 There's nothing b- there's nothing behind you. There's not-

Joe Rogan 46:57 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 46:57 ... even a guitar covering you up.

Joe Rogan 46:59 Right.

Charley Crockett 46:59 It's crazy to me just to watch all those guys do their bit and shit, so, uh, like, I was always amazed by even attempt people going up at, like, the open mics and, like, trying out their routine, you know? That always terrified me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:13 It terrifies me still when I watch open mics. I watch open mics and I watch someone bombing, I, I gotta leave the room.

Charley Crockett 47:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:19 'Cause I, I want... I fear that it's contagious.

Charley Crockett 47:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:23 Like, if I, if I was on the road and-

Charley Crockett 47:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:25 ... I didn't get to pick my opening acts, like if I was working at a club and they had, uh, some local act in Florida or something like that and the guy was fucking terrible, I would literally have to, like, not listen. I'd have to leave the room and just sort of time when I was gonna go on stage so I could go on stage with a fresh mindset.

Charley Crockett 47:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:43 I couldn't think that this audience had been poisoned by this guy's shitty comedy.

Charley Crockett 47:47 Mm-hmm. I get that.

Joe Rogan 47:48 You know what I mean? It's like-

Charley Crockett 47:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:49 ... you're, it's, it's terrible and it's like you, you think that nothing can be funny.

Charley Crockett 47:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:55 He just, it's like this w- like he's hypnotized them-

Charley Crockett 47:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:58 ... into this, like, mediocre state of mind. Like, ugh, I can't listen, I gotta hide.

Charley Crockett 48:03 Yeah, and it's crazy that they could have that, that strong an effect on the audience like that, that quick. I mean, somebody can be up there fucking it up like crazy musically-

Joe Rogan 48:13 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 48:13 ... and you kinda get a pass, you know?

Joe Rogan 48:15 Right.

Charley Crockett 48:16 You know, poetic license or whatever. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:18 Well, you know, people... It's tolerable if the guy's into it, you know? He c-

Charley Crockett 48:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:22 He could be into his own music and you're like, "I'm not into it, but he's into it." At least he's like doing his... So if you're not into... If you're doing comedy and the audience is not into it, you're fucked.

Charley Crockett 48:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:33 You're like really fucked. You have to engage those people.

Charley Crockett 48:35 Yeah, I see that. It's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 48:36 You gotta be connected to those people, and you can't fake it.

Charley Crockett 48:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:39 Like, you can't even be saying the words perfectly and not be thinking about it. You have to be thinking about what you're saying. They know. They're little animals. They smell you.

Charley Crockett 48:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:48 They know.

Charley Crockett 48:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:49 They know if you're faking it.

Charley Crockett 48:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:52 ... and you just gotta lock in, man. Yeah. And you gotta learn how to lock in. It takes about 10 years. It takes 10 years of eating shit. (laughs)

Charley Crockett 48:59 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:00 Just fucking bombing and traveling around and opening up for people-

Charley Crockett 49:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:05 ... and, and barely getting by.

Charley Crockett 49:07 That's the same thing with music, though, about t- the 10-year deal, you know? The 10,000 hour thing.

Joe Rogan 49:11 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 49:12 There's no doubt about it.

Joe Rogan 49:13 I think it's probably almost everything.

Charley Crockett 49:15 Yeah. Anything.

Joe Rogan 49:16 Almost everything.

Charley Crockett 49:16 Anything you dedicate yourself-

Joe Rogan 49:18 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 49:18 ... to. You know, uh, you like Noam Chomsky?

Joe Rogan 49:21 Yeah, sure.

Charley Crockett 49:22 You ever seen-

Joe Rogan 49:23 I like old Noam Chomsky.

Charley Crockett 49:23 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:24 But when I listen to him today, I'm like, "Jesus, stop talking."

Charley Crockett 49:27 Yeah, he's popping off, isn't he?

Joe Rogan 49:28 Well, he just went, the COVID vaccine stuff, he was out of his fucking mind. He was d- wanted people to be isolated and quarantined and taken away from society-

Charley Crockett 49:36 Oh. Wow.

Joe Rogan 49:36 ... if they weren't willing to take this fucking experimental shit-

Charley Crockett 49:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 49:39 ... that turned out not even to work.

Charley Crockett 49:40 I haven't kept up with him in m- in recent years.

Joe Rogan 49:42 Well, he's old, right? And old people... Unfortunately, also, he's an academic, so academics tend to trust experts in whatever field they're in.

Charley Crockett 49:51 Mm.

Joe Rogan 49:51 And if he doesn't have an understand... Like he, he has a deep understanding of how compromised people are politically by money.

Charley Crockett 49:58 Mm.

Joe Rogan 49:59 You know? And he's written some brilliant work on essentially the, the way the, the media is compromised and-

Charley Crockett 50:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:06 ... the way, you know, politics are compromised. I don't think he applied that same step- skepticism towards a pharmaceutical industrial complex.

Charley Crockett 50:15 Which is strange.

Joe Rogan 50:16 Well, people have their blind spots, you know?

Charley Crockett 50:18 Yeah, we all, we all do.

Joe Rogan 50:20 And they trust experts and if you, you know, these kinda experts that are academics and you trust them and, and also he's old.

Charley Crockett 50:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:27 And old people get real scared of diseases.

Charley Crockett 50:29 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:29 They get real scared 'cause they know how fucking vulnerable they are.

Charley Crockett 50:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:32 All the people that I knew that were old had the craziest reaction to COVID.

Charley Crockett 50:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:36 Terrified.

Charley Crockett 50:37 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:37 Even my own parents tried to d- d- you know, talk them through some of the stuff. They didn't wanna hear it. They only wanted to listen to doctors. They want... Like, I don't think this is what they're telling you.

Charley Crockett 50:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:48 You know?

Charley Crockett 50:48 Yeah. Doctors are crazy. They're just... They got a cabinet full of pills that they've been, they've been sold to-

Joe Rogan 50:57 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 50:58 ... sell you.

Joe Rogan 50:58 And they're incentivized. That's what's really crazy. When I found that out, that mean I l- I learned so much during the pandemic about the medical industry, where I, I just thought they were there to... I didn't even... I'm so naive. I didn't even realize that hospitals are privately owned.

Charley Crockett 51:14 Mm.

Joe Rogan 51:14 I thought these were things set up by the government to make sure the people can get healed.

Charley Crockett 51:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:19 You know? I thought it was all about making people better and it's like-

Charley Crockett 51:22 Well, they're not public. The closest thing to public there is if they're owned by like a, you know, religious organization.

Joe Rogan 51:28 Right.

Charley Crockett 51:28 A church.

Joe Rogan 51:29 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 51:30 Isn't that crazy?

Joe Rogan 51:30 It's crazy. Yeah.

Charley Crockett 51:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:31 It's crazy. And they're just fucking shuffling people in and out, trying to prescribe them as many things, and they're financially incentivized to prescribe things. And then they have extreme overhead 'cause they have liability insurance-

Charley Crockett 51:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:45 ... they have student loan debt, and they have, you know, a high overhead to keep their practice running and...

Charley Crockett 51:51 Where's Bernie Sanders when you need him?

Joe Rogan 51:52 Yeah. Well...

Charley Crockett 51:54 Well, no, see, so I had, I had open heart surgery right here in Austin, uh, to fix a-

Joe Rogan 52:00 What was wrong with your heart?

Charley Crockett 52:01 ... valve here.

Joe Rogan 52:02 Oh.

Charley Crockett 52:02 Well, I was b- born with Wolff-Parkinson's white disease. It's a, it's an electrical issue, um, in your heart. Basically, like, your heart misfires. It... All this electricity is moving through it-

Joe Rogan 52:15 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 52:15 ... all the time, uh, you know, like a semiconductor or whatever, and there was like a section of it that was like misfiring, and it would cause my, an arrhythmia with me.

Joe Rogan 52:25 Wow.

Charley Crockett 52:25 Um, and when I was a kid in South Texas, we were told... That was all I knew about. And we were told that it was an annoyance, um, 'cause I almost died a couple times when I was really, really young from it. And, you know, my mama noticed and saved my life a couple times by getting... Driving in, you know, into the city there, into San Benito, and them hooking me up to all the wires and saving me. Anyways, they told me as I got older that it would just, um... I could get, you know, ablat- an ablation for it, where they apply heat basically and close this electrical channel that's stuck in a loop or whatever, um, but it, but it wasn't life-threatening. And then I got out here, you know, uh, was on the street for years, and then when I was coming off the street through kind of blues jams and I had been, you know, I was working on ganja farms, and I'd started selling, you know, weed in the mail and all that to kind of get off street, buy myself some better clothes, get myself a good guitar and amp and all that, started showing up at blues jams, and then I could like, you know... 'Cause everything takes money, you know? Like problem with being a street player was even go play the open mics, they'd have a too damn drink minimum.

Joe Rogan 53:38 Right.

Charley Crockett 53:38 And they'd see my crazy ass come in and they knew, knew that I was, you know, pretty wild and then didn't have any money.

Joe Rogan 53:44 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 53:44 And I didn't smell, and I didn't smell good.

Joe Rogan 53:46 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 53:47 So they really didn't like me for the, you know, for the longest time or whatever, but I... Through blues jams, I started leading bands in bars in Deep Ellum. First gig I ever got in Austin was, uh, right there at Darwin's Pub, you know, on 6th Street playing kind of solo in the afternoon. He was the only guy, CJ was the only guy who gave me a gig, even on 6th Street. I always owed him for that and, I mean, he was giving me 50 bucks, you know? He wanted me to get paid out of the, uh, well whiskey and those, those, uh... What does he sell over there? Those, uh, gyros or whatever the hell he's got over there. Um, anyway, I get on the road, I get an agent, I hand... I was, I was standing out at Gruene Hall handing CDs out on a street corner 'cause I couldn't get into the show. Handed a guy a CD, his name's Evan Felker, he... I didn't know who he was at the time but he's front man for Turnpike Troubadours. Um, I gave him a CD and, uh, he, uh... Well, he took it home and he listened to it with his then girlfriend, and now wife, and lo and behold, his agent, John Folk, called me up and started booking me, and then that's when I started playing the old, uh, Red Dirt...I like to call it the Hank Williams circuit, you know, the kind of old-country-chitlin circuit. John Folk had kind of inherited it, h- inherited it from, like, uh, Buddy Lee Attractions from an earlier generation. It goes all the way back to Lucky Moeller and that old South circuit that all the R&B and the, and the hillbilly country boys were on. And, and Folk kinda inherit it and rebuilt it. And then, they, you know, then Coke and Pepsi came in, you know, CAA and, uh, William Morris and Wasserman and bought it all off, you know, bought it all out. And you had no choice. I mean, they were gonna part it out, no matter what. And that's the way that it works, right? When you get Coca-Cola's attention, right, and they show up and they're like, "Good job. You're taking some of our money away from us. We're gonna buy you out, son."

Joe Rogan 55:43 Ah.

Charley Crockett 55:43 And yet, right? I think you can refuse them once or twice and they'll come back with a better deal, right? After that, if you keep turning them down, then they put all their energy into knocking you out, you know?

Joe Rogan 55:54 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 55:55 That's what I mean. As long as Coke doesn't change the flavor of Coca-Cola, right, they can, you know, that gangster shit... All the other gangster shit they do works really well, as long as they don't fuck up the original flavor, right?

Joe Rogan 56:07 Right.

Charley Crockett 56:07 So I'm on that circuit working my ass off, 200 and whatever shows a year for a bunch of years in a row, playing all over the place. It seems like sometimes we played 21 nights in a row out there, you know, for shit-kickers at Bonita Creek Hall and punk rock clubs in New Jersey and shit, you know? Playing at the fucking, you know The Saint?

Joe Rogan 56:27 No.

Charley Crockett 56:27 That little club The Saint in Asbury Park? It's like a 40 cap, man. It's a badass place. Anyway, um, my h- I was, like, blacking out. I moved up to a bus and shit, and I was like, my... I was getting really lightheaded. And I'd be sitting in the back of the bus, and I would be so light-headed, I'd be blacking out a lot, right? Just sitting there, short of breath, but I just thought, you know, "I'm grinding, I'm playing all these shows. I'm going, I'm going as hard as you can go." Taking potions, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:59 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 56:59 Just doing all this dumb shit, but working hard. And, uh, I was playing at the old Shady Grove here in town that's now closed down. They used to do... It was the KGSR radio s- thing. Marsha Milam put it on or whatever, and then it turned into, you know, ACL Radio, and then Shady Grove closed down there on Barton Springs or wherever. But I played it a handful of times. First time I played it, there was nobody there. Second time I played it, it was packed, and I had, I had Willie's old tour bus, the Red-Headed Stranger. It was one of the ones he lost in the IRS era that he never got back.

Joe Rogan 57:32 Oh, wow.

Charley Crockett 57:32 And this fucking shyster, Chuck Ligon. I remember, he... Su- he... Some motherfucker was selling this thing on the side of the highway up in Oklahoma, The Red-Headed Stranger with the murals on it and shit. It was a beautiful bus. Somehow this guy gets it. Right? I shouldn't call him a shyster, but he definitely shystered me.

Joe Rogan 57:49 (laughs) That's a-

Charley Crockett 57:50 He did.

Joe Rogan 57:50 ... shyster then.

Charley Crockett 57:51 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:51 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 57:51 You know, (laughs) the music business is crazy because it's so-

Joe Rogan 57:55 Here it is.

Charley Crockett 57:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:57 Wow.

Charley Crockett 57:59 That's the one, man. Yeah, that's the one. It... On the other side, it says, uh, "Driven only by the finest bass players." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:06 Wow.

Charley Crockett 58:06 You know? 'Cause somebody in the band always drove those old buses. I had that bus. I used that bus exclusively for about a year or whatever. And we get off the stage at Shady Grove and my heart had gone out of rhythm. I oughta just say this. I almost died in the back of that bus. I end up finding, because it won't go... Here I am, 30-something years old, or in my early 30s, my arrhythmia is out. It's, it's going out and it's getting harder and harder to get back in, to shock it back into normal rhythm. And I just kept iv- ignoring it because somebody told me in South Texas in the '80s not to, not to worry about it. Anyway, um, you know, it turned out that my heart had enlarged and all this shit was going on, and I had to get surgery. The point, long roundabout point that I'm making to you about medical industry that I learned the hard way, man, is, like, no one's advocating for you, only you. You have to be your own advocate. They don't give a fuck. You know? They don't. Like, they were just gonna automatically put a mechanical valve in my heart, right? Automatically.

Joe Rogan 59:13 Okay.

Charley Crockett 59:13 Didn't present any other options, anything, right? Um, and I get there on the American Heart Association webpage or whatever, 'cause I didn't have insurance at the time or anything. Nothing, you know? Um, the only reason that they covered me at the time was the Affordable Care Act, and I had the right window where they could not deny me, right? Otherwise, I don't know what I would've done, and that is absolutely an imperfect system, right?

Joe Rogan 59:39 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 59:39 I just didn't have health insurance. So here they are covering me, and probably because I don't have money and they're dealing with, you know how it is, you know, American business practices or whatever, they're like, "Here's this mechanical valve." And I go and look it up, Joe, and it's like, you know, um, if you have a mechanical valve, you automatically are on blood thinner the rest of your life. Automatically, no matter what. There's-

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 Oh.

Charley Crockett 1:00:06 And you can't... That's just how it's gonna be. Uh, it lasts twice as long as a prosthetic valve, which I had not heard of at that point, but that was the whole thing, "This can last up to 20 years." But guess what? You have, like, 300% higher risk of a stroke with a mechanical valve as a prosthet- a bioprosthetic cow valve. Um, and then the third thing was that you can hear that thing clicking. You can hear the valve-

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:00:37 ... ticking.

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 My buddy, Everlast, has one of those.

Charley Crockett 1:00:39 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 Yeah, he can go like this.

Charley Crockett 1:00:42 You can hear it?

Joe Rogan 1:00:42 Yeah, he... (clicking)

Charley Crockett 1:00:44 And I was reading about that and, man, I'm like neurotic like I knew and like, "I'll never get over it." So that's when I found out about the, about the bovine cow valve.

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 So it's made out of a cow?

Charley Crockett 1:00:57 Yeah, Edwards Scientific makes it. I carry a little card around in my...... wallet with the tag of the p- of, you know, that product number in case somebody sees me on the s- finds me on the sidewalk. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 Wow.

Charley Crockett 1:01:09 You know? And that p-

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 How long does that last?

Charley Crockett 1:01:12 They're supposed to last around 10 years, and I had mine in, uh, I had mine done in, right there at Seton, you know, Seton Medical there on 38th, in, uh, January of 2019. So we're coming back around to it, kind of h-

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 So you have to get another operation?

Charley Crockett 1:01:30 Yeah, but what they did is, they put a, they put a... The way they did it, and that here's the thing about, right, medical, and anything, right? The medical industry is, I think, really fucked up, and really predatory, totally profit-driven, and like, you know, people's health and preventative wellbeing and all that, I mean, we don't give, they don't give a, we don't give a fuck about that-

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Right.

Charley Crockett 1:01:52 ... in this country, you know what I mean? There's no money to be made off of people who look, taking care of themselves, and eating right, and being preventative, and like...

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 Right.

Charley Crockett 1:02:00 You know, there's, there's, there's nothing in that. The part about it that is amazing though, even in the like kind of insanity of all the land of cheap traders, is the technological advancements.

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:02:14 The technological advancements in the medical field, though n- not really, you know, um, available to the common person, um, they are incredible advancements, right? So it's like they're moving so quickly that by the time I need to get another one, I don't think they'll ever have to open me, cut me op- open again, 'cause they can like go in through a scope now.

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 Wow.

Charley Crockett 1:02:35 They could do it at that time, it was just more experimental, and they didn't wanna do it. They were only doing it on really high-risk, older patients, you know? But I think it's already kind of gone more mainstream from where when they cut me open to like if I had did it right now, I could probably get around cutting it. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 Right, so they'll go in through an artery?

Charley Crockett 1:02:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:55 And then what do they have to do to it?

Charley Crockett 1:02:57 Well, so with me, what was happening was is, so I had the Wolf Parkinson's White. Had to get the ablation first to dea- to, before I could deal with what e- uh, aortic valve disease is what it's called, and what it, what it basically is is that, um, over your aorta, there's these three valves that sit on the, over the top of your aorta that they look like a Mercedes symbol is what they look like. It's like the best example, it really looks like a Mercedes s- symbol. And, uh, some people, uh, it's a bicuspid or whatever, some people are born with two of the three fused together, or just one missing all together, and it turned out that I just missing one. It's like a leaky carburetor, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 Wow.

Charley Crockett 1:03:37 So like as the time goes, that old carburetor in that truck, over time, just leaking more and more and more.

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 Wow.

Charley Crockett 1:03:43 You know? And I mean, I just got lucky, man, 'cause I was like in the back of that fucking bus, and there was this lady driving us back then that like was like holding seances and burning sage over the top of me while I was like laying in the back of that bus, like that was gonna heal me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 1:04:01 That shit, That shit didn't work. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 1:04:03 And she doesn't drive me anymore. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 1:04:07 Get yourself a g- good bus driver. You have to get a good bus driver or you'll never get good sleep.

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 Yeah, because you'd be freaking out.

Charley Crockett 1:04:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 You'd be thinking, "What if this person falls asleep?"

Charley Crockett 1:04:16 (laughs) Yeah, there's a lot of them.

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 Especially the late night drives.

Charley Crockett 1:04:19 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 Ooh, late night drives are scary. That, that highway starts hypnotizing you.

Charley Crockett 1:04:23 There was this guy, there was a video going around, he drove us around for a little bit, and there was this video passing around the industry, this guy they called Jimbo. It was this bus driver that was like, you know, just a speed freak, and it was like this video of him where he was like on whatever he was on, and somebody had recorded him, and like they'd put a phone up or something 'cause they knew he was nuts, and he was like having one of those fucking like, you know, methamphetamine freak outs, like, you know, driving the bus down the road, and it was getting all passed around the industry, and I saw it because like he was driving us at the time.

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 Geez.

Charley Crockett 1:04:57 I remember we woke up in, I remember we woke up somewhere in New Mexico one morning 'cause we were going on this road all of a sudden, and I get up and I go to the front of the bus, and he's, we're like on some fucking two-track, you know, caliche fucking r-

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 Dirt road.

Charley Crockett 1:05:15 Dirt road that was like behind, behind a gate in a bus, that bus, right? And I get up there, and he's looking all crazy, and the door handle, the inside door handle, the bus had been pulled off and shit.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 1:05:27 It was crazy, man, when we got, when we got to the, when we got back down here to Texas, man, I never saw a fool again.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Charley Crockett 1:05:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 Well, you gotta think, if you're driving buses all through the night, there's a high likelihood you're on amphetamines.

Charley Crockett 1:05:41 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 High likelihood.

Charley Crockett 1:05:43 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 It's, for the business, it's like-

Charley Crockett 1:05:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 ... probably the best way to stay awake.

Charley Crockett 1:05:46 Oh, no doubt about it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:05:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:48 And then obviously that shit's very addictive.

Charley Crockett 1:05:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 And you need it, this band has to get to Cincinnati.

Charley Crockett 1:05:55 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 They gotta get to Cincinnati, it's an eight-hour drive. There's only one way to do it.

Charley Crockett 1:05:59 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 We gotta drive through the night.

Charley Crockett 1:06:01 And that's why all the old performers were all on pills, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:06:03 And they were getting prescri- I mean...

Joe Rogan 1:06:04 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:06:05 ... you know, and they were getting prescribed that shit by the doctor.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:06:07 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 Oh, yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:06:09 Hm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 Does this give you a, a greater appreciation for life, the value of life, like knowing you almost lost it?

Charley Crockett 1:06:17 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I don't know, I, I hadn't thought about... Immediately after that, I'd started thi- I just cut- started thinking about my mortality.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:06:29 You know? I hadn't really thought about it before, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 Of course. Everybody feels invulnerable when you're young.

Charley Crockett 1:06:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:35 Especially if you're young and you live, you're living that wild, you know? Transient, moving around.

Charley Crockett 1:06:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:40 No roots.

Charley Crockett 1:06:41 When I was in my 20s, I guess I really, looking back now, I was like, man, I was young, like I thought I could live like that forever. I thought I, I thought I could live hand and mouth and, you know, sleep in people's pastures and...

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 1:06:57 ... you know, do the gentleman hobo thing forever, but, you know, I was 26.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 There's something romantic about that too, right?

Charley Crockett 1:07:07 Yeah.I loved it. I, I, I wouldn't take it back, man. I mean, like, you know, I believe that, you know, um, you know, I think mental slavery is something that is real, and... but so much of it is us. Like, we do it to ourselves.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 1:07:30 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:07:31 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:07:31 And so, that's what I was gonna say about Chomsky. I haven't kept up with him in years, but I remember something he said a long time ago that stuck with me, where he was talking about, like, American, you know, consumerism over the last 100 years that really kind of illuminated my, my kinda mind was... he was saying, he was like, "There are people working really, really, really hard to eliminate your sense of purpose for the explicit goal of making you a more efficient consumer." Right?

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 1:08:13 All human beings live for and desire a, a life of purpose.

Joe Rogan 1:08:22 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:08:22 Purpose. Well, it doesn't matter what it is. Something that you can dedicate yourself to, the 10,000 hours, the 10 years. It can be, you, you know, anything, uh, wood making or, or your buddy with the, this ancient tooth that he's carving into this beautiful piece of art, or whatever it is, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:08:42 Um, I don't know. I guess some- it's like a heavy thing, but I kinda realized when I became a transient that a lot of who I was was like this amalgamation of a bunch of people just trying to fucking sell me products, you know? '90s radio just blasting my brain as a kid, right? Like, programming that, like, it's like the... So much programming is so hard for me to watch because you know that it's only a vehicle for the commercials.

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 Right.

Charley Crockett 1:09:23 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:09:23 Right.

Charley Crockett 1:09:24 So whenever I'm watching something, and as soon as I think that it's not that good, I can't stop thinking about like, "Well, they'll..." This is just a vehicle for me to fucking, you know, think I need the-

Joe Rogan 1:09:38 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 1:09:38 ... whatever the fuck they're selling.

Joe Rogan 1:09:40 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:09:40 You know? So I feel like I, I feel like I killed, like, a, a lot of the false version of me that I was becoming that I, I only realized when I walked, when I, like, walked away from Crystal City. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:10:00 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 1:10:03 And then, and then I could, um... and then I really started becoming, you know, me. That's when I really started becoming me.

Joe Rogan 1:10:11 A lot of people are prisoners to that their whole life 'cause the, the only value they place is in how much stuff they're able to acquire.

Charley Crockett 1:10:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 That's the only value that they see in life. They look at numbers on a ledger, so they look at numbers in their bank account, and they look at the stuff they're willing to acquire-

Charley Crockett 1:10:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 ... or that they're able to acquire.

Charley Crockett 1:10:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 And that's their only measure of success in this life.

Charley Crockett 1:10:33 Yeah, the very definition of the word rich has changed so much over the last c- you know, 100 years, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:10:40 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:10:40 It's kinda moved entire... It really, it really... Richness wasn't a, a material idea, you know? But it...

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 What did it used to be?

Charley Crockett 1:10:50 You know, richness of life, uh, fullness of life.

Joe Rogan 1:10:54 Right.

Charley Crockett 1:10:54 You know, um...

Joe Rogan 1:10:55 Fulfillment.

Charley Crockett 1:10:56 Fulfillment, um...

Joe Rogan 1:10:58 Purpose.

Charley Crockett 1:10:59 Health.

Joe Rogan 1:10:59 Health. Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:11:00 You know? Community.

Joe Rogan 1:11:01 Community, family.

Charley Crockett 1:11:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:03 Yeah, friends. Yeah, real life. But so many people, they, they, they forego all that.

Charley Crockett 1:11:11 Or-

Joe Rogan 1:11:11 They'll throw everything out the window just for the numbers, for numbers and they, they think they're successful.

Charley Crockett 1:11:18 I mean, it's the way that it's being run, you know? Like, I mean, there's no such thing as a free lunch, you know? All this free social media, shit ain't free.

Joe Rogan 1:11:27 No.

Charley Crockett 1:11:27 (laughs) You know?

Joe Rogan 1:11:28 No, you give up your attention.

Charley Crockett 1:11:29 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:11:29 Your attention's very, very-

Charley Crockett 1:11:30 Like...

Joe Rogan 1:11:30 ... valuable, your data and-

Charley Crockett 1:11:32 Privacy.

Joe Rogan 1:11:32 ... your attention. Yeah, your privacy.

Charley Crockett 1:11:34 The transparent society.

Joe Rogan 1:11:35 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:11:36 But, man, like, you know, you're pulling, y'all pulled up that AI stuff. I remember I, uh, I won't tell you the whole thing, but, uh, I was playing on the street in Europe when, uh, when I was younger. I'd met a guy down on the Lower East Side, he's a Danish jazz singer, and he would show up over in the States a couple times a year, and he was doing really well there in Denmark. And the, the state really sponsors the arts there in a big way, and it's a small country, high quality of life, like, he really had it made over there. And when he was coming over to the States to play music, it was almost more of a leisure thing for him. Benjamin Agerbak is his name. Great singer, great jazz singer. And he'd show up at the open mics and all this shit, and he, I think he really liked me because he saw the way that I was living this American gypsy lifestyle, and he eventually helped me get over to Europe. And I played the club circuit in Copenhagen for like six weeks or whatever, and I was really rough around the edges, and like the American novelty in the folk, in like blues clubs around Copenhagen wore off really quick, and I wound up back on the street but this time in Europe. And as soon as I started playing on the street in Copenhagen, man, then being a real Texan in Europe in front of tourists on the street, man, I started, that's when I started making money.

Joe Rogan 1:12:59 Oh yeah?

Charley Crockett 1:12:59 It was crazy. My money like quadrupled because all of a sudden I was like a truly exotic... Texas is exotic, and everywhere you go in the world that means something, right? They either wanna shake your hand or they step back.And it doesn't matter where you go in the world, there's no, there's not an inch of the world that hasn't heard of Texas, you know? And, um, and that said, and so m- musically, you know, it, it, and I think culturally it means something, no matter what, you know? And to play music and be a Texan is worth a lot on its own. You know what-

Joe Rogan 1:13:32 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 1:13:32 ... I mean? It's a big part of it, is just being a Texan. Gary Clark Jr., learning how to hold his own under the tradition of Austin blues players in Texas, guitar slingers. I mean, that's, it's second to none in the world, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:13:48 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:13:48 And so if you've seen him live, you know what it is. And uh, (smacks lips) but I remember seeing, like, there were no self-checkouts at grocery stores and shit in the United States back then, not one. And then I was like, I ended up down in France 'cause it was getting cold in Copenhagen. And I had like, I had like two or 300 kroner left and I put it all on a bus ticket to Paris 'cause it was my mama's favorite city, and I grew up quite a bit in Louisiana having some of that French heritage. And I went down there, I'm glad I didn't think about it, man, 'cause the language barrier was really difficult. And I didn't really realize it till I was pulling into the city, you know? And actually there was an Algerian guy who spoke English that was like, "Man, go to Montmartre, go to Le Sacré-Coeur. Go to Le Sacré-Coeur. That's where the tourists are or whatever." And I kinda learned how to hustle tourists with gypsies kind of that would, were le- were using me kind of as a decoy on the steps. And I thought, "This is great. They, these gypsies love me." And I'm sitting there playing, and while I'm playing, I realize that I'm just a distraction while they're pickpocketing these tourists.

Joe Rogan 1:14:55 (laughs)

Charley Crockett 1:14:56 It was a good trick. Of course, I didn't say anything. Also, I didn't stick with them too much. But like, so like the automation thing, you know? They're all, they're all, Europe is way ahead of us on all of that because in a lot of ways, America... When you try to, like, analyze America against Europe and these countries over there, like, in some ways it's similar, but we're more similar to Latin or South America in a lot of ways, with just how big the country is, you know? And you know, the, the ag, the, you know, um, because the country's so big, we got the states that are divided up, all that type of shit. Those kind of technologies to like hit the people and become mainstream, it's slow, it's a slower process here, right? And one of the things, you know, about the pandemic that is obvious to me now is, you know, a lot of people realize that they could speed that up, you know? And you know, I mean, I think they'd been trying to eliminate, you know, the, the risks and, uh, what's the word? What are they like, you know, externalizing cost, right? Once, like how do we get, how do we get these machines in here and these people out?

Joe Rogan 1:16:17 Mm-hmm.

Charley Crockett 1:16:17 And it, we've probably jumped ahead in that process in America a decade or more in just a couple of years. And I just remember, this was probably 2010, you'd go into a grocery store in Paris and there was, there was only one person working there and everything else was self-checkout, and that was years before I saw it here. And then you think about the way that that's hitting in every single industry in America.

Joe Rogan 1:16:45 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:16:46 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:16:47 Well, it's so easy for people to be completely disconnected from other people now.

Charley Crockett 1:16:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:16:51 You know, you don't, you don't have to interact, you know? And that's part of it. And if they-

Charley Crockett 1:16:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:56 ... don't have to pay people, they can maximize their profits and then it becomes a very impersonal experience.

Charley Crockett 1:17:02 Mm-hmm. Soylent Green is-

Joe Rogan 1:17:04 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:17:04 ... coming, baby.

Joe Rogan 1:17:05 It's coming.

Charley Crockett 1:17:05 You seen that movie?

Joe Rogan 1:17:06 Yeah.

Charley Crockett 1:17:06 It's a good movie, man.

Joe Rogan 1:17:07 That's a good movie.

Charley Crockett 1:17:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:09 It's a scary fucking movie.

Charley Crockett 1:17:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:11 Well, I think all the dystopian movies about the future, they undersold it.