Joe Rogan Experience #2340 - Charley Crockett

Charley Crockett is a country singer-songwriter. His most recentl album, "Lonesome Drifter," is available now. ⁠https://www.charleycrockett.com⁠ Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/ROGANYT to get 4 months free! THE WATERFRONT - NOW PLAYING, ONLY ON NETFLIX

Charley CrockettguestJoe Roganhost

Jun 19, 20252h 47mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,073 words

0:00 – 0:12
Intro
1. CCCharley Crockett
  (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
2. NANarrator
  The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)
0:12 – 1:32
Viper Room lore, Hollywood vibes, and meeting Charley Crockett
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, but, doing something at the Viper Room and then trying to come here the next day.
2. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
3. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
4. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
5. JRJoe Rogan
  The Viper Room's just notorious, like even when you're in the building, you just feel like, "Ugh."
6. CCCharley Crockett
  It is notorious.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
8. CCCharley Crockett
  And it's funny because I'd, the only way I'd ever been in there was through that, you know, the door on the side street there.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Uh-huh.
10. CCCharley Crockett
  You know? And, uh, but they, you know, they had all the cameras out and took me around the... I'd never come in through the door on Sunset before, even recognized the place.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  No, I'd never been through that door either.
12. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  I've on-, like I said, I've only been there once. I was there for a comedy show. It just feels weird. It's a, there's, there's certain buildings that just have bizarre history. You know?
14. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah, well, Shooter was telling me last night, man, uh, River Phoenix died on the sidewalk right out that door on the... I didn't know that. I thought it was in front of the-
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
16. CCCharley Crockett
  I thought it was in front of the Whiskey for some reason.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  No, no, It was the Viper Room.
18. CCCharley Crockett
  I never realized that.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Yeah. It was a fucked up place. Hey, man. Nice to meet you.
20. CCCharley Crockett
  Pleasure's all mine, Joe. Thanks for having me.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  I love your music.
22. CCCharley Crockett
  Really?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when my friend, Jake turned me onto you. Your, your music is like, you've lived a life. You can't fake that.
24. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  You know what I mean? There's something about certain dudes' voices and songs-
26. CCCharley Crockett
  Hmm.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  ... they're like, "All right, that guy's done some living."
28. CCCharley Crockett
  Hmm.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? You can't create that with AI.
30. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
1:32 – 4:20
AI video gets indistinguishable: the end of knowing what’s real?
1. CCCharley Crockett
  Everybody, uh, I mean, it's crazy, we're, uh ... I mean, we're, uh, we're that, we're kind of reaching singularity, you know?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. CCCharley Crockett
  Where nobody can tell the difference.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  I know. I think we're right, right about there. There was a new one that just got released today. Did you s- hear the new one today? It's even, even better than the Google one that was insane that was released last week? Yeah, it's weird.
5. CCCharley Crockett
  What are you, what are you talking about?
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Uh, some new AI engine that does video. I'll send it to you, Jamie. It's, uh, it's pretty incredible. This, the, the, the way they're able to make stuff now where it looks exactly like, like real human beings. Like it doesn't, i- i- it doesn't look fake-
7. CCCharley Crockett
  You can't tell the difference.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  ... even a little bit, yeah.
9. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  I'll send it to you, Jamie. All right. (slurps) It's called, um, ByteDance. So is that the China one? No, that's the company. Oh, okay. ByteDance is the company that owns like TikTok and stuff. Oh, yeah, China. Oh, okay. (laughs)
11. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Um, this is their new AI. So this is all fake, all fake people, all done by computers.
13. CCCharley Crockett
  (clears throat)
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Indistinguishable.
15. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? It's like, it's very strange. You got it? Yeah. Throw that up. Sound. Gimme some sound. You gotta click on it. This is all fake. (music playing) I mean, what the fuck, man? (static) We are living in the weirdest time ever, Charlie Crockett.
17. CCCharley Crockett
  Oh, man, you're right.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  This is the weirdest time ever to be alive because we are so close to not being able to tell what's real and what's fake. We're so close. I mean, we're essentially right there with video and then eventually it's going to move into some sort of perception. It's gonna be feel. You're gonna be able to put a helmet on and whoosh-
19. CCCharley Crockett
  Hmm.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  ... go into some bizarre world.
21. CCCharley Crockett
  And you can't stop it.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  You can't stop it.
23. CCCharley Crockett
  It's coming.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  It's coming. It's n- n- and the people that are working on it in America, like, we have to because China's working on it. I'm like, "Okay. I guess that's just what we're doing." (laughs)
25. CCCharley Crockett
  Space race even if it's just a show. (laughs)
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it's essentially the Manhattan Project for artificial intelligence, is a race around the world.
4:20 – 7:49
Moon landing skepticism and why big narratives persist
1. CCCharley Crockett
  Joe, did we go to the moon?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't think so.
3. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
4. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't think so.
5. CCCharley Crockett
  You know, I don't think so either.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't think so.
7. CCCharley Crockett
  And it-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  I d- it makes you sound fucking completely insane to say it but...
9. CCCharley Crockett
  I lost a lot of friends when I was younger when I started th- talking like that. (laughs)
10. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) I did too. I gained a lot of friends too though.
11. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
12. JRJoe Rogan
  I gained a lot of sci- I, b- listen, man. I've talked to scientists that don't wanna talk about it publicly.
13. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Scientists.
15. CCCharley Crockett
  Well see, uh, you know what I figured? I figured that would be the one time in the history of civilization that h- human beings got to a new place and said, "Nah, I'm good," and turned around and went-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Exactly.
17. CCCharley Crockett
  "I don't wanna look around there anymore."
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Well-
19. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
20. JRJoe Rogan
  ... Bart Sibrel, he's this, uh, researcher that's been doing these documentaries on the moon landing and he's been saying it's fake since like... I met him sometime in the early 2000s, I believe, and he put out this, this documentary called A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, and he's got a great quote. And he says, "There's not a single thing that's not easier, faster, and cheaper to reproduce today from 1969 except the moon landing."
21. CCCharley Crockett
  Hmm.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  It's the one thing. Well, and everybody go, "Oh, but they spent so much money. Why would they spend the money on that again?" Well, why, why would they spend money on all the things they spend money on?
23. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Like what are you talking about? It doesn't make any sense. The, the moon is l- has trillions of dollars in rare minerals on it. There's all sorts of shit on the moon that would be very beneficial to society. And it was always gonna be that we were gonna have a base on the moon, then we were gonna use that to go to other places.
25. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't think so.
27. CCCharley Crockett
  (sniffs)
28. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean if you look at the, just the, the way they filmed it, like when you watched it on television, the people that watched it on television, it was the first time ever there were, where there was a news thing where the, the news stations, the, the networks didn't have a direct feed-... what they had was, they filmed the moon landing. They, they showed it on a projection screen.
29. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  And then the networks pointed their camera at the projection screen. That's why it looked so shitty.
7:49 – 15:04
Classic consumer nostalgia: yerba mate, Coca-Cola, and “medicinal” drugs
1. CCCharley Crockett
  You know why I like it, really?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  What?
3. CCCharley Crockett
  I didn't realize it for, like, a year or two, and now I realize it because it tastes just like Coca-Cola. (laughs)
4. JRJoe Rogan
  It does? It really?
5. CCCharley Crockett
  It does. It's close. I think that's the secret. It tastes like Coca-Cola.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. CCCharley Crockett
  You know?
8. JRJoe Rogan
  I would like to try the original Coca-Cola with cocaine in it.
9. CCCharley Crockett
  No shit.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  I wonder what that was like.
11. CCCharley Crockett
  Non, non, non-habit forming.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Allegedly.
13. CCCharley Crockett
  Right?
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Another lie. (laughs)
15. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs) Is it ... Do you ... Was it true, right? That, that Bayer, Bayer had first had heroin in it? Or opium?
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
17. CCCharley Crockett
  The original version of it.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Bayer aspirin?
19. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah. Lo-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
21. CCCharley Crockett
  ... the, the, or the, the original product.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  We'll find that out.
23. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah. I think it, I think it did.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, that makes sense.
25. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  I'm sure. That's real great for headaches.
27. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
28. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) I mean, uh, more lies, right? How many times have we been lied to?
29. CCCharley Crockett
  But, but you know what it is? It's, um, you know, I think it's, uh ... I'm preaching to the choir here. But I think it's a perception thing, right? With, uh, you know, it's like, planting that flag on the moon-
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
15:04 – 19:23
Movies that rattle you: body horror, anxiety cinema, and the “Uncut Gems” effect
1. JRJoe Rogan
  I watched the fucking craziest movie last night, The Substance. Have you heard of that movie?
2. CCCharley Crockett
  I've heard of it.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  That's that new Demi Moore movie.
4. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah, I was af- afraid to watch it.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Holy shit, man.
6. CCCharley Crockett
  It's intense.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh my god. One of the most insane movies I've ever seen in my life.
8. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  It's about this lady who's getting older and, uh, someone approaches her with this new experimental drug that allows you to live as a young person for seven days, and then you have to switch back to the old person for seven days. I don't wanna spoil it for anybody, but it was fucking insane.
10. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, like I left... I was like, "I gotta watch something stupid on YouTube for a couple of hours-"
12. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  "... before I go to bed because I'm, I'm weirded out by this movie."
14. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah, that's the reason I haven't watched it yet, before our time is still... The, it was... that's the... I'm just saying.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
16. CCCharley Crockett
  You gotta sc- it... I never liked, I never liked the, like the sensory overload, like horror movies.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, yeah.
18. CCCharley Crockett
  I like classic horror movies.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  This is a sensory overload times 10.
20. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, it's, it's fucking insane. It's an insane movie. It's really good. I mean, it, it really grips you. It's very entertaining, but just good lord.
22. CCCharley Crockett
  Have you seen, uh, um, Uncut Gems?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes. Love that movie.
24. CCCharley Crockett
  Isn't that a good movie?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh my god.
26. CCCharley Crockett
  It was like a little much for me, but it was so good and it wasn't so crazy, you know?
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Well, I grew up with a lot of gambling addicts, so for that movie, that movie like really hit home for me. I was like, "Oh god, geez, like got anxieties and..."
28. CCCharley Crockett
  Howard? Is that his name? Howie Howard? You know, uh, Sandler's character?
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Is that what his name is? Howie?
30. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah, and he's a-
19:23 – 25:11
Gambling cultures: bingo halls, pool halls, and degenerate economics
1. JRJoe Rogan
  and The Verge. And right now, you can get an amazing deal. They're offering four extra months free if you go to expressvpn.com/rogan, or tap the banner. And if you're watching on YouTube, you can get your four free months by scanning the QR code on-screen or clicking the link in the description. For some people, that's, that's their juice, man. That, that's what keeps them going in life, just that next bet, you know?
2. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  I, I grew up, uh, around a lot of pool halls and, um, you know, when I was in my early 20s.
4. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  And I was just around so many people that just lived for gambling. They would go straight from off-track betting right to the pool hall and, you know, they'd bet on anything.
6. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  They'd bet on two raindrops coming down a windowpane.
8. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
9. JRJoe Rogan
  They'd bet on roaches. They'd bet on anything.
10. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  A- any... You name it. They'd flip a coin for 10... I saw dudes flip a coin for thousands of dollars.
12. CCCharley Crockett
  Uh.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  They'd, uh... A guy would win a tournament. Like, this is, like, a famous thing in pool. Guys would elin- win a tournament, win $10,000, flip a coin, lose the whole thing.
14. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  And you had to have heart. You had to be will- like, that was, like, part of the culture.
16. CCCharley Crockett
  Right.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  You had to be willing to bet.
18. CCCharley Crockett
  Right.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  And e- everybody's alwa- 'cause the, the only way it's fun-
20. CCCharley Crockett
  And take the loss.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. The only way it's fun is if money's constantly flowing. So if someone's trying to be conservative, someone trying to save the money, they called them a nit.
22. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, "You're a nit." They didn't like you.
24. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
25. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? Nobody likes a nit.
26. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, those are, those are the guys that get shunned by the pool hall. They, they're a bad action.
28. CCCharley Crockett
  Where'd you grow up?
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, all over the place really. But, uh-
30. CCCharley Crockett
  Where were those pool halls?
25:11 – 31:12
Learning guitar the hard way: self-taught technique and a mother’s honest wisdom
1. CCCharley Crockett
  Well, you know, I've never been good at holding a, holding a pick. Um, 'cause I we- I learned how to play with my hands, and I... Because I could never hold a pick well, but some of the... A lot of guys I know that are really great pickers, they play these really hard picks, you know, and can... Real precise with 'em, and I just... I still can't hold 'em.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  You s- you learned with your fingers?
3. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah. Yeah, I never, never hel- I just couldn't hold a pick. I would try to hold it and it'd get sideways, and I never... Like, all this, you know, like, the straight cowboy chords, you know, C, F, G, whatever. Um, I couldn't hold any of those chords, like, when I was teaching myself. The positioning was weird for me, you know? And so, like, I kinda threw away the book, and I did what you call choking the chicken on the, on the fret, you know? Kinda hold it like you're choking a chicken.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
5. CCCharley Crockett
  And that's kinda where I developed my style, and then I learned all the regular chords many years later. (laughs) You know?
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Did you... Is, are you totally self-taught?
7. CCCharley Crockett
  Oh, yeah.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow. When did you start?
9. CCCharley Crockett
  Um, (smacks lips) uh, I was 17. My mama got me a guitar out of a pawn shop in South Irving.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
11. CCCharley Crockett
  It was a Hohner guitar.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  And you just started messing around with it?
13. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah. Yeah, you know, my mama had tried to get me on the piano when I was younger, and I just couldn't focus, and, um... Yeah, I don't know.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
15. CCCharley Crockett
  17 was like the right age. I, I needed it, you know? Uh, started banging around on that guitar, and, and I mean, it must've sounded terrible.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
17. CCCharley Crockett
  And, and we... Me and my, me and my mama lived in this little ass place, this tiny place, and I didn't... I was like scared to play in front of her, you know? But it... But I was at first, and I would say, "Mama, am I any good?" You know? And she wasn't gonna lie to me, and she said, "Well, son, when you play, people will believe you." She wasn't gonna lie to me and tell me I was good. (laughs)
18. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
19. CCCharley Crockett
  But she was trying to say, you know, "Just be honest with your music and the rest will take care of it." So...
20. JRJoe Rogan
  That's great advice.
21. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  "When you play, people will believe you."
23. CCCharley Crockett
  That's what she said.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
25. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
27. CCCharley Crockett
  Yup. And then the next time anybody believed in me wasn't until I started hitchhiking, and I remember 'cause I'd been out in California a bunch recently, and it was... I had caught a ride with this guy. We were playing at this place called The Shanty up in, uh, Farmer's Branch in the Dallas-Fort Worth areas years ago, and there was this witch lady that... I mean, they called her a witch. This kind of, um, (smacks lips) kind of magic woman who had a barn out behind her house, and they called it The Shanty, and she would have people over on the weekends and just kind of any random night, travelers, misfits, whatever, back there in the barn, and everybody'd be telling stories, and trading songs, and, you know, taking potions.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
29. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs) Stuff like that. Long story short, this guy I met one night, his parents had like worked... They worked for like Texas Instruments, and he had disowned them, you know, because his parents were like scientists, and he woke up one day as a young man and realized they were like... His parents were manufacturing like weapons, you know, and I'd never ... saw this guy again, but that was his whole deal why he left Texas.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, wow.
31:12 – 35:50
Hitchhiking, getting stranded, and going on the run from a family scandal
1. CCCharley Crockett
  ... or what- or whatever. You know? And it wasn't like that, it wasn't like that money hit the case and, and not like a light went off or anything, you know? It was a slow, it was a slow, gradual deal. Like, I was playing outside because there was, you know, there wasn't enough room to play in the hou- in the house or whatever, you know? And then, you know, I got in a lot of trouble with the law, um, which kinda put me on the run, put me on the road. And-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  What was the trouble with the law?
3. CCCharley Crockett
  Uh, you know, my, I've said it a lot, and it's funny, I'm a lot better known than I used to be, so it's like you say stuff about your family and they hear about it and ...
4. JRJoe Rogan
  They get mad.
5. CCCharley Crockett
  They get mad.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. CCCharley Crockett
  But, uh, (laughs) it's so funny 'cause it's all over the internet, and, uh, they're the ones that had the government on their ass, not me. But anyways, yeah, we just kinda, you know, shit hit the fan, got up in the newspapers. My brother didn't go to high school, you know? Neither did my sister, neither of them went to high school. They both dropped out, you know, 'cause I'm from South Texas, I was born in the Rio Grande Valley, they were born up in Dallas, but my mama had moved down there to, uh, South Padre Island area, McAllen, Harlingen area there. And, um, anyway, it's poor and pretty hard living down there and, you know, hell, I didn't wear shoes til I was probably nine or ten years old, you know?
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
9. CCCharley Crockett
  Playing outside and ... My brother and sister, they're ten years older than me, half-brother and -sister, and, uh, we have different daddies, and, uh, they really lived wild, you know? It was just, things were pretty, pretty tough back then or whatever. I'm telling you that background because my brother became a hustler, you know, because he had to, because of a lack of education, lack of access, you know, 'cause of poverty, um, and I've honestly always respected him for that, you know? Um, he took, he used to take me around door-to-door selling newspapers when I was 11, right? And you wanna know why? 'Cause I had, I had broken my arm, and he realized if you carted that young boy out in front of those pe- those apartments when that lady answered the door, and it's these two brothers and one of them's got a broken arm, she's gonna buy the, she's gonna go ahead and subscribe. (laughs)
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. She feels bad.
11. CCCharley Crockett
  You know? Yeah. In, in a, in a, in a nutshell, man, he, you know, through all that stuff, you know, he, he started out as a door-to-door salesman, you know, hustling newspaper subscriptions, right? Then he started, like, selling neckties and, like, men's clothing door-to-door in downtown Dallas office buildings, you know? And, as a very young man. And eventually he graduated to, you know, hard knock, boiler room type of guys. You know, you keep knocking on those doors in that Wild West business scene of towns like Dallas, you know, or Houston, you know, eventually you're gonna find what you're looking for. And he got in with some big old wolves, you know? And eventually it, it knocked everybody out and a lot of people died, a lot of people w- went to prison. And, um, you know, we were in the paper, and, uh, I couldn't... I found myself not being able to get a bank account and nobody I knew would go near me, you know? And-
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
13. CCCharley Crockett
  Um, so it ended up being like a Bob Marley type of thing, you know? Like, you know he said, uh, "If you're not living good, travel wide."
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
15. CCCharley Crockett
  Right? And I literally just walked out of town because, you know, we had scarlet letters on our chests and that's when I, that's when I really started learning how to stand behind that guitar and write songs and slowly but surely start... I, I learned how to play basically in front of people, and people just were giving me money, kinda, over time. That and, you know, food and shelter in exchange for my story at their back door.
16. JRJoe Rogan
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17. CCCharley Crockett
  You know?
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Do you ever wonder, like, how things could've gone? 'Cause things turned out great.
19. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, look, you're a popular m- music artist now.
21. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? Worldwide. You're famous.
35:50 – 43:12
Avoiding addiction, finding role models, and taking responsibility for your life
1. CCCharley Crockett
  I'm surprised I, I'm... You know what I'm surprised by? I'm surprised I never got heavily addicted to drugs.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah?
3. CCCharley Crockett
  I am. You know? It was my, my sister passed away 10 years ago from substances and hard living and all that kind of stuff, and hell, my whole family's in AA. Everybody, top to bottom, left to right, turn 'em inside out. I think about it a lot, but I really do, you know? And I remember I was living with that guy who, uh, was at the shanty that was playing guitar. He was on the football team. I knew him from sports. His name, his name was Daniel Harmon. And he went out there to California with me that first time, and we were living on farms and I was working for ganja farmers, uh, working on horse farms, working for g- uh, uh, wine makers, all kind of people. You know? Just, just doing grunt work for them. Doing the fence work.... they, they, they didn't wanna do. Moving soil for people, you know what I mean? Digging ditches, you know, laying p- pipe across really hard, you know, rocky roads. Nu- anything anybody can do, you just need, you know, broad, back, and a, you know, b- to be young. (laughs)
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
5. CCCharley Crockett
  And, um, but before I ever left Texas, I moved in with his, his sister, and I remember ... And she was just my friend. I was never in a relationship with her or anything. But she was working at Silver City in West Dallas, the Gentlemen's Club, at 18, and making more money than anybody I'd ever seen. The girl was 18, you know, and just making crazy, crazy money, and I was liv- she let me rent a room from her and kinda gave me a deal and all that, and, uh, I ended up writing a song kind of about it more recently called Easy Money that I did with Shooter on this- on The Lonesome Drifter record. And that's kinda the thing, you know, if you're a poor kid from Texas, there's no such thing, you know, as easy money. But, um, not, I can't remember why I was telling you that, but, um, it was hard on ... I just remember, like, seeing, you'd see, like, young women working in strip clubs, making big money, and the ones that I was around and have been around, very, very hard for that line of work, my line of work, your line of work, not to become addicted.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. CCCharley Crockett
  You know? And I don't have a problem with, uh, you know, a lot of the best, shit, most, most, best artists I ever saw, like, struggled, struggled with addiction, you know. Um, but I have, in that way, I have been very fortunate, very, very fortunate that I-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  How did you avoid it?
9. CCCharley Crockett
  I don't know. You know what it is, man? I never had no kinda, I ne- rec- no how t- had no kind of tolerance, you know? I'm s- I've always been, like, I can just get drunk off of one drink.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
11. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs) And it's never changed.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Well-
13. CCCharley Crockett
  I just felt it all, like, really strong, you know? Like ...
14. JRJoe Rogan
  That's probably good.
15. CCCharley Crockett
  Yeah.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Maybe it's a survival instinct too.
17. CCCharley Crockett
  I've never really thought about why, you know, but I have considered it 'cause my brother's been through ... You know, he, he did a lot of time in prison, and, you know, my, let me see, my, my sister had ... And my mama, you know what I mean? They both had their first kid, you know, when they were teenagers, you know?
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
19. CCCharley Crockett
  Um, a lot of it, I do credit to my mama, you know? It's like, you know, she told me something I remember that stuck with me. I've been saying this all the time, Joe. And, like, we had a lot of trouble in our family and a lot of people that we knew, a lot of dysfunction, lot of trauma. Um, but when my, my mama kinda got out of that, she kind of is the person in the family that said, "I'm gonna change the trajectory of this line in, now, in my generation." You know? And she didn't have an education, and, um, you know, she took herself back to school after I was born. Um, you know, and cleaned up her act and, and, and, and got out of it, and, and isolated me from a lot of that shit. And, um, which I think is a big part of the reason that I maybe didn't-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, you had a role model.
21. CCCharley Crockett
  ... wasn't ... Yeah, I had a role model.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. CCCharley Crockett
  You know? I di- there was no male role models, at lea- not at home.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
25. CCCharley Crockett
  They were only, they were only pro athletes and coaches at school, you know? I mean, it's increasingly difficult for young men to find strong men of courage and vision that can help them grow into good men too. I mean, it's im- it's almo- it seems almost impossible these days. It's unbelievable, right?
26. JRJoe Rogan
  It's very difficult to find in your personal life.
27. CCCharley Crockett
  It's hard, man.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  You have to l- find it in other ways. You have to find it people online or people in the world-
29. CCCharley Crockett
  I found it in athletes, in-
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
43:12 – 51:54
The music industry’s ‘Moneyball’ era: development vs pump-and-dump
1. CCCharley Crockett
  like, in the music industry at least, is that the way the business works now is they're almost exclusively b- you know... Y- y- you ever seen Moneyball? The Brad Pitt flick, Moneyball?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. CCCharley Crockett
  Right?
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
5. CCCharley Crockett
  How they, you know, they introduce that concept of r- looking at the data to, like, maximize the potential of the athletes and all that kind of stuff, which has totally changed the game, you know, all the games. Uh, I kinda call it money guitar, right, which is like, you know, the business is seeding the young amateur, and for the way that they spend and invest and can move on if it doesn't work out, it's like kind of a, you know, it's kind of a pump and dump, you know?
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, right.
7. CCCharley Crockett
  And the thing about that, uh, uh, and it works. Like, if somebody has a, you know, if somebody, like some of these guys that you mentioned, Oliver Anthony and some of these guys, they have a viral hit out of nowhere, they've never played a venue or anything in their life, you know, um, it can happen really fast. And then, obviously, there's tremendous challenges, w- you know, down the line trying to keep that, you know, astronomical, you know, quick rise up there. Um, but back in the day, the business deals weren't any good. You know that. They were terrible.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
9. CCCharley Crockett
  What they were good about though, in a lot of cases, was developing these artists on these rosters, even if they were taking advantage of these poor farm boys, taking advantage, you know, of, you know, poor Black artists from the South, or women, or whatever. Nobody was getting a good deal basically. But, you know, like, guys like Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings, those guys were making two, three records a year.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
11. CCCharley Crockett
  You know? And you think about when Waylon breaks through, right, in the mid '70s, you know, and like as he's doing, you know, coming into his own in seven- 1974, 1975, I mean, how many records in is he at that point, you know?
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
13. CCCharley Crockett
  He's-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
15. CCCharley Crockett
  How many... I mean, you know, Waylon's Red Headed Stranger, which revolutionized country music or, like, the Outlaws compilation record that the two of them were on together, which was basically a compilation and kinda marketed as the Outlaws subgenre, um, you know, those guys were 15, 16, 17 records in, you know?
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
17. CCCharley Crockett
  Areth- Aretha Franklin popped off on her ninth or tenth record.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
19. CCCharley Crockett
  You know? And these, most of these artists, the way the business works, they won't make nine or ten records in their career.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
21. CCCharley Crockett
  That's crazy to me.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  That is crazy. And what better way to develop than to just keep constantly producing new music and learn along the way?
23. CCCharley Crockett
  And, and being neglected or misunderstood by their business when I was first dealing with it, that was the- it was a really, a s- really a blessing because I ended up making so many records, you know?
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. The music business has always been so predatory.
25. CCCharley Crockett
  (laughs)
26. JRJoe Rogan
  But it's, it's, it's like it's th- the way I describe a lot of things. It's like when you get something that's good combined with a bunch of people that want to make money off that something that's good.
27. CCCharley Crockett
  Mm-hmm.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  You know, whether it's medicine or whether it's music, or even in comedy, you get the same thing. You get a bunch of people that just think they can make money off you.
29. CCCharley Crockett
  Man, I always thought comedy was the hardest. I always figured it was the hardest, right? Th- 'cause you mean, like, you gotta make them laugh or they're gonna fucking kill you.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  And you have new shit all the time.
51:54 – 1:41:24
Heart surgery, broken incentives in healthcare, and terrifying tour-bus realities
1. CCCharley Crockett
  Well, no, see, so I had, I had open heart surgery right here in Austin, uh, to fix a-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  What was wrong with your heart?
3. CCCharley Crockett
  ... valve here.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
5. CCCharley Crockett
  Well, I was b- born with Wolff-Parkinson's white disease. It's a, it's an electrical issue, um, in your heart. Basically, like, your heart misfires. It... All this electricity is moving through it-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
7. CCCharley Crockett
  ... all the time, uh, you know, like a semiconductor or whatever, and there was like a section of it that was like misfiring, and it would cause my, an arrhythmia with me.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
9. CCCharley Crockett
  Um, and when I was a kid in South Texas, we were told... That was all I knew about. And we were told that it was an annoyance, um, 'cause I almost died a couple times when I was really, really young from it. And, you know, my mama noticed and saved my life a couple times by getting... Driving in, you know, into the city there, into San Benito, and them hooking me up to all the wires and saving me. Anyways, they told me as I got older that it would just, um... I could get, you know, ablat- an ablation for it, where they apply heat basically and close this electrical channel that's stuck in a loop or whatever, um, but it, but it wasn't life-threatening. And then I got out here, you know, uh, was on the street for years, and then when I was coming off the street through kind of blues jams and I had been, you know, I was working on ganja farms, and I'd started selling, you know, weed in the mail and all that to kind of get off street, buy myself some better clothes, get myself a good guitar and amp and all that, started showing up at blues jams, and then I could like, you know... 'Cause everything takes money, you know? Like problem with being a street player was even go play the open mics, they'd have a too damn drink minimum.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
11. CCCharley Crockett
  And they'd see my crazy ass come in and they knew, knew that I was, you know, pretty wild and then didn't have any money.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
13. CCCharley Crockett
  And I didn't smell, and I didn't smell good.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
15. CCCharley Crockett
  So they really didn't like me for the, you know, for the longest time or whatever, but I... Through blues jams, I started leading bands in bars in Deep Ellum. First gig I ever got in Austin was, uh, right there at Darwin's Pub, you know, on 6th Street playing kind of solo in the afternoon. He was the only guy, CJ was the only guy who gave me a gig, even on 6th Street. I always owed him for that and, I mean, he was giving me 50 bucks, you know? He wanted me to get paid out of the, uh, well whiskey and those, those, uh... What does he sell over there? Those, uh, gyros or whatever the hell he's got over there. Um, anyway, I get on the road, I get an agent, I hand... I was, I was standing out at Gruene Hall handing CDs out on a street corner 'cause I couldn't get into the show. Handed a guy a CD, his name's Evan Felker, he... I didn't know who he was at the time but he's front man for Turnpike Troubadours. Um, I gave him a CD and, uh, he, uh... Well, he took it home and he listened to it with his then girlfriend, and now wife, and lo and behold, his agent, John Folk, called me up and started booking me, and then that's when I started playing the old, uh, Red Dirt...I like to call it the Hank Williams circuit, you know, the kind of old-country-chitlin circuit. John Folk had kind of inherited it, h- inherited it from, like, uh, Buddy Lee Attractions from an earlier generation. It goes all the way back to Lucky Moeller and that old South circuit that all the R&B and the, and the hillbilly country boys were on. And, and Folk kinda inherit it and rebuilt it. And then, they, you know, then Coke and Pepsi came in, you know, CAA and, uh, William Morris and Wasserman and bought it all off, you know, bought it all out. And you had no choice. I mean, they were gonna part it out, no matter what. And that's the way that it works, right? When you get Coca-Cola's attention, right, and they show up and they're like, "Good job. You're taking some of our money away from us. We're gonna buy you out, son."
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Ah.
17. CCCharley Crockett
  And yet, right? I think you can refuse them once or twice and they'll come back with a better deal, right? After that, if you keep turning them down, then they put all their energy into knocking you out, you know?
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
19. CCCharley Crockett
  That's what I mean. As long as Coke doesn't change the flavor of Coca-Cola, right, they can, you know, that gangster shit... All the other gangster shit they do works really well, as long as they don't fuck up the original flavor, right?
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
21. CCCharley Crockett
  So I'm on that circuit working my ass off, 200 and whatever shows a year for a bunch of years in a row, playing all over the place. It seems like sometimes we played 21 nights in a row out there, you know, for shit-kickers at Bonita Creek Hall and punk rock clubs in New Jersey and shit, you know? Playing at the fucking, you know The Saint?
22. JRJoe Rogan
  No.
23. CCCharley Crockett
  That little club The Saint in Asbury Park? It's like a 40 cap, man. It's a badass place. Anyway, um, my h- I was, like, blacking out. I moved up to a bus and shit, and I was like, my... I was getting really lightheaded. And I'd be sitting in the back of the bus, and I would be so light-headed, I'd be blacking out a lot, right? Just sitting there, short of breath, but I just thought, you know, "I'm grinding, I'm playing all these shows. I'm going, I'm going as hard as you can go." Taking potions, you know? (laughs)
24. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
25. CCCharley Crockett
  Just doing all this dumb shit, but working hard. And, uh, I was playing at the old Shady Grove here in town that's now closed down. They used to do... It was the KGSR radio s- thing. Marsha Milam put it on or whatever, and then it turned into, you know, ACL Radio, and then Shady Grove closed down there on Barton Springs or wherever. But I played it a handful of times. First time I played it, there was nobody there. Second time I played it, it was packed, and I had, I had Willie's old tour bus, the Red-Headed Stranger. It was one of the ones he lost in the IRS era that he never got back.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, wow.
27. CCCharley Crockett
  And this fucking shyster, Chuck Ligon. I remember, he... Su- he... Some motherfucker was selling this thing on the side of the highway up in Oklahoma, The Red-Headed Stranger with the murals on it and shit. It was a beautiful bus. Somehow this guy gets it. Right? I shouldn't call him a shyster, but he definitely shystered me.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) That's a-
29. CCCharley Crockett
  He did.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  ... shyster then.

Episode duration: 2:47:22

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Intro

Viper Room lore, Hollywood vibes, and meeting Charley Crockett

AI video gets indistinguishable: the end of knowing what’s real?

Moon landing skepticism and why big narratives persist

Classic consumer nostalgia: yerba mate, Coca-Cola, and “medicinal” drugs

Movies that rattle you: body horror, anxiety cinema, and the “Uncut Gems” effect

Gambling cultures: bingo halls, pool halls, and degenerate economics

Learning guitar the hard way: self-taught technique and a mother’s honest wisdom

Hitchhiking, getting stranded, and going on the run from a family scandal

Avoiding addiction, finding role models, and taking responsibility for your life

The music industry’s ‘Moneyball’ era: development vs pump-and-dump

Heart surgery, broken incentives in healthcare, and terrifying tour-bus realities

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