Joe Rogan Experience #2345 - Roman Yampolskiy

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. RYRoman Yampolskiy0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Um, well, thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.

   3. RYRoman Yampolskiy0:15

      My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me on.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      This subject of, um, the dangers of AI, it's, it's very interesting, 'cause I get two very different responses from people dependent upon how invested they are in, uh, AI, financially. The, the, the people that have AI companies or are part of some sort of AI group all are like, "It's gonna be a net positive for humanity. I think overall we're, we're gonna have much better lives. It's gonna be easier. Things will be cheaper. It'll be easier to get along." And then I hear people like you and I'm like, "Why do I believe him?"

   5. RYRoman Yampolskiy0:55

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:56

      (laughs)

   7. RYRoman Yampolskiy0:57

      It's actually not true. All of them are on record as saying this is gonna kill us. Whether it's Sam Altman or anyone else, they all, at some point, were leaders in AI safety work. They published on AI safety. And their PDOM levels are insanely high. Not like mine, but still, 20, 30% chance that humanity dies is a little too much.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:18

      Yeah. That's pretty high. But yours is like 99.9.

   9. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:23

      It's another way of saying we can't control super intelligence indefinitely.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       Yeah.

   11. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:27

       It's impossible.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       Um, w- when did you start working on this?

   13. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:33

       A long time ago. So my PhD was... I finished in, uh, 2008. I did work on online casino security, basically preventing bots. And at that point, I realized bots are getting much better. They're gonna out-compete us, obviously, in poker, but also in stealing cyber resources. And, uh, from then on, I've been kinda trying to scale it to the next level AI.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       It, it's not just that, right? They're also... They're kind of narrating social discourse, b- bots online. Like, I think... You know, I've disengaged over the last few months with social media, and one of the reasons why I disengaged is, A, I think it's unhealthy for people, but B, I feel like there's a giant percentage of the discourse that's artificial or at least generated.

   15. RYRoman Yampolskiy2:27

       More and more is deepfakes or fake personalities, fake messaging, but those are very different levels of concern.

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:34

       Yes.

   17. RYRoman Yampolskiy2:34

       People are concerned about immediate problems. Maybe it will influence some election. They're concerned about technological unemployment, bias. My main concern is long-term super intelligent systems we cannot control which can take us out.

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       Yes. I, I won- I just wonder, if AI was sentient, uh, how much it would be a part of sowing this sort of confusion and chaos that would be beneficial to its survival, that it would sort of narrate or, or make sure that the narratives aligned with its survival?

   19. RYRoman Yampolskiy3:18

       I don't think it's at the level yet where it would be able to do this type of strategic planning, but it will get there.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:24

       And when it gets there, how will we know whether it's at that level? This is my concern. If I was AI, I would hide-

   21. RYRoman Yampolskiy3:31

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:31

       ... my abilities.

   23. RYRoman Yampolskiy3:32

       We would not know, and some people think already it's happening. They are smarter than they actually let us know.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:38

       Right.

   25. RYRoman Yampolskiy3:38

       They pretend to be dumber. And so we have to kinda trust that they are not smart enough to realize. It doesn't have to turn on us quickly. It can just slowly become more useful. It can teach us to rely on it, trust it, and over long period of time, we'll surrender control without ever voting on it or-

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:57

       Right.

   27. RYRoman Yampolskiy3:57

       ... fighting against it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:59

       Um, I'm sure you saw this. Uh, there was a recent study on, um, use of ChatGPT, the people that use ChatGPT all the time. And it showed this decrease in cognitive function amongst people that use it and rely on it on a regular basis.

   29. RYRoman Yampolskiy4:14

       It's not new. It's the GPS story all over. I can't even find my way home.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:18

       Right. (laughs)
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Right. …

   1. RYRoman Yampolskiy15:00

      what it is. We- we're basically setting up, uh, adversarial situation with agents which are like squirrels versus humans. No group of squirrels can figure out how to control us.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      Right.

   3. RYRoman Yampolskiy15:14

      Even if you give them more resources, more acorns, whatever, they're not gonna solve that problem. And it's the same for us. And most people think one or two steps ahead and it's not enough. It's not enough in chess. It's not enough here. If you think about AGI and then maybe super intelligence, that's not the end of that game. The process continues. You'll get super intelligence creating next level AI, so super intelligence++, 2.0, 3.0. It goes on indefinitely. You have to create a safety mechanism which scales forever, never makes mistakes, and keeps us in decision-making position so we can undo something if we don't like it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:50

      And it would take super intelligence to create a safety mechanism to control super intelligence.

   5. RYRoman Yampolskiy15:55

      At that level. And it's a catch-22. If we had friendly AI, we can make another friendly AI. So if, like, aliens send us one and we trust it, then we can use it to build local version which is somewhat safe.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:08

      Have you thought about the possibility that this is the role of the human race and that this happens all throughout the cosmos, is that curious humans who thrive on innovation will ultimately create a better version of life?

   7. RYRoman Yampolskiy16:26

      I- I thought about it. Um, many people think that's the answer to Fermi paradox. There is also now a group of people looking at what they call a worthy successor. Basically, they kinda say, "Yep, we're gonna build super intelligence. Yep, we can control it." So what properties would we like to see in those systems? How important is it that it likes art and poetry and spreads it through the universe? And to me it's like, I don't wanna give up yet. I'm not ready to decide if killers of my family and everyone will like poetry. I wanna... We're still here. We're still making decisions. Let's figure out what we can do.

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:03

      Well, poetry is only relevant to us because poetry is difficult to create and it resonates with us. Poetry doesn't mean jack shit to a flower.

   9. RYRoman Yampolskiy17:13

      It's more global to me. I don't care what happens after, uh, I'm dead, my family is dead, all the humans are dead. Whether they like poetry or not is irrelevant to me.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:20

       Right. But it, but the, the point is like the things that we put meaning in, they... It's only us. The, you know-

   11. RYRoman Yampolskiy17:29

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:29

       ... a super massive black hole doesn't give a shit about a great song.

   13. RYRoman Yampolskiy17:32

       And they talk about some super value, super culture, super things super intelligence would like, and it's important that they're conscious and experienced all that greatness in the universe.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:43

       But I would think that they would look at us the same way we look at chimpanzees. We would, we would say, "Yeah, they're great, but don't give 'em guns. Yeah, they're great, but don't let 'em have airplanes. Don't let 'em make global geopolitical decisions."

   15. RYRoman Yampolskiy18:01

       So there are many reasons why they can decide that we're dangerous. We may create competing AI. We may decide we wanna shut them off. So for many reasons, we would try to restrict our abilities, restrict our capabilities, for sure.

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:17

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   17. RYRoman Yampolskiy19:31

       If there is something only a human can do, and I don't think there is anything like that, but let's say we are conscious, we have internal experiences, and they can never get it. I don't believe it, but let's say it was true, and for some reason, they wanted to have that capability. They would meet us and give us enough freedom to experience the universe, to collect those qualia, to kinda engage with what is fun about being a living human being, what makes it meaningful.

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:58

       Right. But that's such an egotistical perspective, right? That we're so unique that even super intelligence would say, "Wow, I wish I was human." Humans have this unique quality of confusion and creativity.

   19. RYRoman Yampolskiy20:11

       There is no value in it, mostly because we can't even test for it. I have no idea if you're actually conscious or not. So how valuable can it be if I can't even detect it?

   20. JRJoe Rogan20:18

       (laughs)

   21. RYRoman Yampolskiy20:21

       Only you know what ice cream tastes like to you. Okay, that's great. Sell it now. Make a product out of it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:26

       Right. And there's obviously variables, because there's things that people like that I think are gross.

   23. RYRoman Yampolskiy20:33

       Absolutely.

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:33

       And-

   25. RYRoman Yampolskiy20:33

       So really, you can come up with some agent which likes anything or find anyth- finds anything fun.

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:39

       Oh, God. Why are you freaking me out right away?

   27. RYRoman Yampolskiy20:43

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:43

       That's the problem. This podcast is 18 minutes old, and I'm, I'm like, "We could just stop right now." (laughs)

   29. RYRoman Yampolskiy20:48

       (laughs) Couple hours at least, and then I-

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:51

       Uh, oh, no!
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   That, this is what's…

   1. RYRoman Yampolskiy30:00

      it, I think will be eventually removed.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      That, this is what's so disturbing about this. It's like we do not have the capacity to understand what kind of level of intelligence it will achieve in our lifetime. We don't have the capacity to understand like what it was... what it will be able to do within 20, 30 years.

   3. RYRoman Yampolskiy30:23

      We can't predict next year or two precisely.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:26

      Next year or two?

   5. RYRoman Yampolskiy30:28

      We can understand general trends. So it's getting better.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:31

      Right.

   7. RYRoman Yampolskiy30:31

      It's getting more, generally more capable, but no one knows specifics. I cannot tell you what GPT-6 precisely would be capable of, and no one can, not even people creating it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:41

      Well, you talked about this on Lex's podcast, too, like the ability to have safety. You're like, "Sure, maybe GPT-5, maybe GPT-6," but when you scale out 100 years from now ...... ultimately, it's impossible.

   9. RYRoman Yampolskiy30:54

      It's a hyper-exponential progress and, uh, process and we cannot keep up. I- it, uh, basically requires just to add more resources, give it more data, more compute, and it keeps scaling up. There is no similar scaling laws for safety. If you give someone billion dollars, they cannot produce billion dollars worth of safety. It, if at all, scales linearly and maybe it's a constant.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:21

       (sighs) Yeah, and it doesn't scale line- linearly.

   11. RYRoman Yampolskiy31:28

       Uh-

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       It, it, it's exponential, right?

   13. RYRoman Yampolskiy31:30

       The, the AI development is hyper-exponential-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:32

       Hyper-exponential.

   15. RYRoman Yampolskiy31:32

       ... because we have hardware growing exponentially. We have data creation processes certainly exponential. We have so many more sensors. We have cars with cameras. We have all those things. That's exponential. And then, uh, algorithm, algorithmic pros- uh, progress itself is also exponential.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:50

       And then you have quantum computing.

   17. RYRoman Yampolskiy31:52

       So that's the next step. It's not even obvious that we'll need that. But if we ever get stuck, yeah, we'll, we'll get there. I'm not too concerned yet. I don't think there are actually good quantum computers out there yet. But I, I think, uh, if we get stuck for 10 years, let's say, that's the next paradigm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:08

       So what do you mean by you don't think there's good quantum computing out there?

   19. RYRoman Yampolskiy32:12

       So we constantly see articles coming out saying, "We have a new quantum computer. It has that many qubits."

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:18

       Right.

   21. RYRoman Yampolskiy32:19

       But that doesn't mean much because they use different architectures, different ways of measuring quality. To me, show me what you can do. So there is a threat from quantum computers in terms of breaking cryptography, factoring large integers. And if they were actually making progress, we would see with every article, now we can factor 256-bit number, 1,024-bit number. In reality, I think the largest number we can factor is, like, 15. Literally, not 15 to a power, like just 15. There is no progress in applying it to source algorithm last time I checked.

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:54

       But when ... Uh, I've read all these articles about quantum comput- computing and its ability to solve equations that would take conventional computing an infinite number of years.

   23. RYRoman Yampolskiy33:08

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan33:08

       And it can do it in minutes.

   25. RYRoman Yampolskiy33:10

       Those equations are about quantum states of a system. It's kinda like what is it for you to taste ice cream? You compute it so fast and so well, and I can't, but it's a useless thing to compute. It doesn't compute solutions to real world problems we care about in conventional computers.

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:27

       Right. I see what you're saying. So it's essentially set up to do it quickly.

   27. RYRoman Yampolskiy33:32

       It's natural for it to accurately predict its own states, quantum states, and tells you what they are. And classic computer would fail miserably. Yes, it would take billions and billions of years to compute that specific answer. But those are very restricted problems. It's un- it's not a general computer yet.

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:48

       When you, when you see these articles, when they're, they're talking about quantum computing and some of the researchers are equating it to the multiverse, they're saying that the ability that these quantum computers have to solve these problems very quickly seems to indicate that it is in contact with other realities. You- I'm sure you've seen this, right?

   29. RYRoman Yampolskiy34:12

       There is a lot of crazy papers out there.

   30. JRJoe Rogan34:14

       (sighs) Do you think that's all horseshit?
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      a ... Can you send an Instagram story? Um, not sure if you can. Uh, it's, it's still on there. I'll go check it real quick for you. Why don't I find it on there? Oh, no. Okay. Either way, point being, w- maybe it's just that w- we're so limited because we do have this h- at least, again, in this simulation. We're so limited in our ability to even form concepts-

   2. RYRoman Yampolskiy45:29

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:29

      ... because we have these primitive brains that are ...

   4. RYRoman Yampolskiy45:32

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:32

      The architecture of the human brain itself is just not capable of interfacing with the true nature of reality. So we give this primitive creature this sort of basic understanding, these blueprints of how the world really works, but it's really just a facsimile. It's not ... We're, we're ... It's, it's not capable of understanding like ... Like, when we look at like c- quantum reality, when we look at just the, the basics of quantum mechanics and, and, uh, subatomic particles, like the ... It seems like magic, right? Things in superposition-

   6. RYRoman Yampolskiy46:14

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan46:15

      ... they're both moving and not moving in the same time. They, they're quantumly attached. Like what? You know, we have photons that are quantumly entangled. Like the ... This, this doesn't even make sense to us, right? So is it that the universe itself is so complex, the reality of it, and that we're given this sort of like, sort of ... You know, we're giving like an Atari framework-

   8. RYRoman Yampolskiy46:40

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan46:41

      ... to this monkey. That's the gentleman right there. This is a old story.

   10. RYRoman Yampolskiy46:44

       Oh.

   11. JRJoe Rogan46:44

       Oh, is it really? It's from '97. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. Wow.

   12. RYRoman Yampolskiy46:48

       But it kinda makes sense as a simulation theory because all those special effects you talk about. So speed of light is just the speed at which your computer updates. Entanglement makes perfect sense if all of it goes through your processor, not directly from pixel to pixel. And rendering, there are quantum physics experiments which, if you observe things, they're under different-

   13. JRJoe Rogan47:10

       Right.

   14. RYRoman Yampolskiy47:10

       It's what we do in computer graphics.

   15. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       Right. Right.

   16. RYRoman Yampolskiy47:12

       So we see a lot of that. You brought up limitations of us as humans. We have terrible memory. I can remember seven units of information maybe. We're kinda slow. So we call it artificial stupidity. We try to figure out those limits and program them into AI to see if it makes them safer. It also makes sense as an experiment to see if we as general intelligences can be better controlled with those limitations built in.

   17. JRJoe Rogan47:38

       Hmm. That's interesting. So like some of the things that we have, like Dunbar's number-

   18. RYRoman Yampolskiy47:44

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan47:44

       ... this, this ... The inability to keep more than a certain number of people in your mind.

   20. RYRoman Yampolskiy47:49

       Absolutely. Uh, more generally, like why can't you remember anything from prior generations? Why can't you just pass that memory? Kids are born-

   21. JRJoe Rogan47:58

       Right.

   22. RYRoman Yampolskiy47:58

       ... speaking language. That would be such an advantage.

   23. JRJoe Rogan48:00

       Right. Right. Right.

   24. RYRoman Yampolskiy48:01

       And we have instincts which are built that way. So we know evolution found a way to put it in, and it's computationally tractable, so there is no reason not to have that.

   25. JRJoe Rogan48:10

       Well, we certainly observe it in animals, right?

   26. RYRoman Yampolskiy48:13

       Exactly.

   27. JRJoe Rogan48:13

       Like especially dogs. Like they have instincts that are-

   28. RYRoman Yampolskiy48:16

       But how cool would it be if you had complete-

   29. JRJoe Rogan48:19

       Language.

   30. RYRoman Yampolskiy48:19

       ... memory-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   I, I think, lately,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      blurry and doesn't seem real.

   2. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:00:04

      I, I think, lately, we've been getting better ones, but it's also the time that we're getting better deepfakes. So I-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

      Right.

   4. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:00:09

      ... can no longer trust my eyes.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:12

      Yeah. Yeah, did you see the l- the latest one that Jeremy Corbell posted? The one you sent me? Yeah. Did you see it? Yeah, I don't know. It's weird. Yeah. It's hard to tell what it is. Exactly. That's the thing. Like, we ... he might be right. We might be in a simulation and it might be horseshit 'cause they all seem like horseshit. It's like the first horseshit was Bigfoot, and then as technology scaled out and we get a greater understanding, we develop GPS and satellites and, you know, more people study the woods, we're like, "Yeah, that seems like horseshit." So that horseshit's kinda gone away. But the UFO horseshit still around 'cause you have anecdotal experiences, abductees with-

   6. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:00:51

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:51

      ... very compelling stories. You have whistleblowers from deep inside the military telling you that we're working on back-engineered products. But it also seems like a back plot to a video game that I'm playing.

   8. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:01:02

      And it was weird to see government come out all of a sudden and, like, have conferences about it and tell us everything they know.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

      Yeah.

   10. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:01:09

       It almost seemed like they trying too hard.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:12

       Yeah.

   12. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:01:12

       With simulation, what's interesting, it's not just the last couple years then we got computers. If you look at religions, world religions, and you strip away all the local culture, like take Saturday off, take Sunday off, donate this animal, donate that animal, what they all agree on is that there is super intelligence which created a fake world and this is a test-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:32

       (laughs)

   14. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:01:32

       ... do this or that. They describing, like, if you went to jungle and told primitive tribe about my paper and simulation theory, that's what they would know three generations later. Like, God, religion, that's what they got out of it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

       ... why, eh, eh, but they don't think it's a fake world.

   16. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:01:48

       A made world. A physical world is a subset of a real world which is non-physical, right? That's the standard-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:54

       Right.

   18. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:01:54

       ... Christian, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:54

       So this physical world being created by God?

   20. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:01:56

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:57

       Right. But what existed before the physical world created by God?

   22. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:02:02

       Ideas. Just information.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:04

       Just God. God was bored and was like, "Let's give some, make some animals that can think and solve problems." And for what reason? I think to create God. This is what I worry about. I worry about, that's really the nature of the universe itself, eh, that it is actually created by human beings creating this infinitely intelligent thing that can essentially harness all of the available energy and power of the universe and create anything it wants. That it is God. That is, the, the, like, you know this whole idea of Jesus coming back? Well, maybe it's real. Maybe ju- we just completely misinterpreted these ancient scrolls and texts, and that what it really means is that we are going to give birth to this.

   24. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:02:51

       So, I-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:52

       And a virgin birth at that.

   26. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:02:54

       There is definitely possibility of a cycle. So we had big bang.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:57

       Yeah.

   28. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:02:58

       It starts this process. We are creating more powerful systems. They need to compute, so they bring together more and more matter in one point. Next, big bang takes place.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:07

       Yeah.

   30. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:03:07

       And it's a cycle of repeated booms and busts.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:25:31

   (laughs) …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      is kind of bullshit. Your life's a mess. Like, if you were really intelligent, you'd have social intelligence as well.

   2. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:15:06

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:06

      You, you know, you'd have the ability to formulate a really cool tribe. You know, there's a lot of intelligence that's not as simple as being able to solve equations and, you know, and answer difficult questions. There's a lot of intelligence in how you navigate life itself and how you treat human beings and, and th- the path that you choose in terms of ... Like we were talking about, uh, delayed gratification and, and, and thing, that there's a certain amount of intelligence in that, a certain amount of intelligence in discipline. There's a certain amount of intelligence in, you know, forcing yourself to get up in the morning and go for a run. There's intelligence in that. It's like the, the, the b- being able to control the mind and this sort of binary approach to intelligence that we have.

   4. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:15:49

      Yeah. And so many people are amazingly brilliant in a narrow domain.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:53

      Yeah.

   6. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:15:54

      They don't scale to others. And we care about general intelligence, so take someone like Warren Buffett. No one's better at making money, but then what to do with that money is a separate problem. And he's, I don't know, 100 and something years old.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:16:07

      Right.

   8. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:16:08

      He has $200 billion, and what is he doing with that resource?

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:16:12

      He's drinking Coca-Cola and eating McDonald's. (laughs)

   10. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:16:14

       While living in a house he bought 30 years ago.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:16:16

       Yeah. (laughs)

   12. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:16:17

       So i- it seems like you can optimize on that, like putting $160 billion of his dollars towards immortality would be a good bet for him.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:16:24

       Yeah, and they would ... first thing they would do is tell him, "Stop drinking Coca-Cola. What are you doing?" He drinks it every day.

   14. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:16:29

       I don't know, if it's marketing, he's invested, so he's just like, "Coca-"

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:16:32

       Well, I think he probably has really good doctors and really good medical care that counteracts his poor choices. Yeah.

   16. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:16:39

       But we're not in a world where you can spend money to buy life extension. No matter how many billions you have, you're not gonna live to 200 right now.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:16:47

       We're close.

   18. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:16:49

       I-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:16:49

       We're really close. We're really close.

   20. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:16:53

       We've been told this before.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:16:54

       Yeah, no.

   22. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:16:55

       One, one interesting-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:16:56

       But I talk to a lot of people that are on the forefront of a lot of this research. And, uh, there's a lot of breakthroughs that are happening right now that are pretty spectacular, that if you scale the ... uh, you know, assuming that superintelligence doesn't wipe us out in the next 50 years, which is really charitable. You know?

   24. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:17:17

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:17:17

       Like, tha- that's ... Th- that ... we're ... that's a very ... that's a rose-colored glasses perspective, right? 50 years.

   26. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:17:25

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:17:25

       Because, uh, a lot of people like yourself think it's a year away or two years away from being far more intelligent.

   28. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:17:31

       Five, 10, doesn't matter. Same problem, same-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:17:33

       Yes.

   30. RYRoman Yampolskiy1:17:33

       ... yeah.

Episode duration: 2:14:26