Joe Rogan Experience #2346 - Jim Lampley

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. JLJim Lampley0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Oh, really? That was your closest male friend?

   3. JLJim Lampley0:15

      Unexpected.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Yeah?

   5. JLJim Lampley0:16

      Unexpected, but over a period of time, we just got closer and closer and closer, and, you know, very brotherly. And the last public appearance Emanuel ever made was my wedding in September of 2012. And that night, the wedding was at our house in Del Mar, California, and that night he, uh, his girlfriend came to me and said, "We have to leave early. Emanuel's having stomach pains." He was in oncology by the next week.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:50

      (groans)

   7. JLJim Lampley0:50

      He was gone by three weeks later.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:52

      Oh.

   9. JLJim Lampley0:53

      So, very touching to me, and, you know, deeply symbolic of my love for him, and thus the Kronk hat.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Yeah. What a classic gem. And he was one of the first guys to realize, like if you crank the heat up, it actually gives guys better conditioning.

   11. JLJim Lampley1:10

       He realized a lot of things.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Yes.

   13. JLJim Lampley1:11

       And he, uh, Emanuel was a genius, uh, in a lot of ways. And there were a lot of, um, sort of time-honored rules and techniques in boxing that he quietly upended.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       Yes.

   15. JLJim Lampley1:26

       You know? Because he was more advanced in his point of view and thought processes.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       And then everybody else sort of followed his lead.

   17. JLJim Lampley1:33

       Once they understood-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       Yeah.

   19. JLJim Lampley1:34

       ... what he was doing.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       Yeah.

   21. JLJim Lampley1:35

       Once you, if you, if you saw the McCrorys and Tommy-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:38

       Yes.

   23. JLJim Lampley1:38

       ... and those guys-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:40

       Yes.

   25. JLJim Lampley1:40

       ... why wouldn't you imitate, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       Right, right. Exactly, yeah. No, he was a-

   27. JLJim Lampley1:43

       And he did it at both the amateur and pro level too.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JLJim Lampley1:46

       You know? So...

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       And he was always fantastic too as a commentator, because he would give insight that you're really not gonna get from someone that's not, like with these fighters day in, day out, through an entire camp. He really understood things.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   I know that that…

   1. JLJim Lampley15:00

      and he did what he could to help with McClellan.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:03

      I know that that loss that McClellan had and the subsequent medical issues, the stroke and the aneurysm, all that stuff, uh, really disturbed Roy and made him think, you know, about getting out early.

   3. JLJim Lampley15:15

      100%. Yeah. 'Cause, 'cause Roy was nothing if not smart.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:21

      Right.

   5. JLJim Lampley15:21

      Roy was brilliant, okay?

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:23

      Yeah.

   7. JLJim Lampley15:23

      And Roy very assertively fought in a style that would limit harm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      Wow, it's awesome.

   9. JLJim Lampley15:29

      He didn't want to get hurt.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       His gifts. I mean, what a, what a guy. Like who else in recent memory lead with left hooks?

   11. JLJim Lampley15:36

       Well, there's heavyweight boxing and then there's weight class boxing. Ali is the unique physical specimen in heavyweight boxing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       Right.

   13. JLJim Lampley15:43

       Roy is the unique physical specimen in weight class boxing.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       Right.

   15. JLJim Lampley15:47

       You know? And, and-

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       So much so that he actually won the heavyweight title.

   17. JLJim Lampley15:50

       Well-

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Which is crazy. Crazy.

   19. JLJim Lampley15:51

       Exactly right. Whatever he wanted to do, if he put his mind to it-

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       Right.

   21. JLJim Lampley15:55

       ... he could do that, you know? And, and, um, a part of the ongoing cliché was he could play any sport. You know, he could be great in football, basketball, baseball, et cetera, et cetera.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       Right.

   23. JLJim Lampley16:06

       And, of course, he did go through the theatrics of playing a basketball game-

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:11

       Yes.

   25. JLJim Lampley16:11

       ... on the same day that he fought a fight.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       Which was so crazy.

   27. JLJim Lampley16:14

       It was. It was insane.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       It was so crazy.

   29. JLJim Lampley16:16

       But that was... His talent was insane.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:18

       But it was also like he was just showing people. He was kind of playing with his food. He's like, "I'm gonna play a basketball game and then go and easily win a fight, same night." Bananas.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Right. …

   1. JLJim Lampley30:00

      of competition."You think you see a lot of wipeouts in boxing? 'Cause you see a second-round knockout or third-round knockout, and you think that means there's a huge talent gap between the two fighters? No, it means one fighter made a mistake.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:12

      Right.

   3. JLJim Lampley30:12

      Okay?

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:13

      Yeah.

   5. JLJim Lampley30:13

      90% of the time, it means one fighter made a mistake, and if he thinks about it and trains against it, he won't make that mistake again. So-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:20

      Well, like, perfect examples, Juan Manuel Marquez versus Pacquiao.

   7. JLJim Lampley30:24

      100%.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:24

      They have three insane fights that are very close. Marquez lands one bomb and starches Pacquiao. This one error. He got a little overconfident, a little, little too-

   9. JLJim Lampley30:38

      (smacks lips)

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:38

       ... i- i- g- little too aggressive-

   11. JLJim Lampley30:38

       Greatest counterpuncher of his era.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:40

       And power.

   13. JLJim Lampley30:41

       Yeah. And with, with power.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:43

       Yeah.

   15. JLJim Lampley30:43

       With the straight-ahead power from the shoulder.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       Yeah.

   17. JLJim Lampley30:45

       Marquez was a gifted fighter.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:47

       Very gifted. But just, like, that one moment, like, if that had happened in the first fight, we would look at the whole thing very differently.

   19. JLJim Lampley30:55

       100%.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       Yeah.

   21. JLJim Lampley30:56

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       There's just, like, uh, th- the margins, as you were saying, are so small for victory, that when you see, like, a spectacular result, you do automatically assume, "Oh, that person's just that much better." But sometimes it's just one error, one mistake.

   23. JLJim Lampley31:10

       It's a moment in time.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:12

       Right.

   25. JLJim Lampley31:12

       You know, if it's a knockout, uh, th- now, if, if somebody gets knocked down six times, then you're talking about something different.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:19

       Right.

   27. JLJim Lampley31:19

       But one knockdown that leads to a 10-count, that was a momentary mistake.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:24

       Right.

   29. JLJim Lampley31:25

       Uh, and, uh, that's, again, it goes to the fine margins of competition.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:30

       Right.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yes. …

   1. JLJim Lampley45:00

      and of course we all know that Ray partially won the judges and the crowd with showbiz, with the-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:07

      Yes.

   3. JLJim Lampley45:07

      ... you know, with the way that he threw his arms up at the end-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      Yes.

   5. JLJim Lampley45:10

      ... of every round and, you know, called attention to himself. And he, he was quite aware of what he was doing. Uh, and he was quite aware also that it would get under Hagler's skin.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:20

      Yes.

   7. JLJim Lampley45:20

      So, you know, there, there was an element of genius in Ray, as we talked about already-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:25

      For sure.

   9. JLJim Lampley45:25

      ... that, that went to more than just his spectacular physical gifts.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:30

       Right. Yeah, no, he, he gamed the system a little bit. He figured out how to flurry at the end of the rounds and make a big impression in the judge's eyes. That was a very close fight, but that fight always bothered me. And one of the things that bothered me is I felt like there were moments where Hagler could have turned it up and didn't, and then when he retired after that fight and went to Italy and became a, a giant movie star in Italy, the conspiratorial part of my brain was always like, "Was that like one of those deals where everybody assumed that Hagler was gonna win?" Hagler was a destroyer. Hagler had knocked out Tommy Hearns. Hagler had beaten everybody in the division, knocked out Mugabe. He was, he was the man, you know?

   11. JLJim Lampley46:15

       You fought, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:16

       Yeah.

   13. JLJim Lampley46:17

       So you fought, I didn't. I mean, I've, I've only talked. But because you fought, you probably have an even stronger sense than I do of how difficult the sport is.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:27

       Yes.

   15. JLJim Lampley46:27

       Uh, the training is difficult.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JLJim Lampley46:30

       The fear factor is-

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:32

       Yeah.

   19. JLJim Lampley46:32

       ... is certainly part of it. Um, the level of concentration and devotion that it takes. Uh, it, it's not easy.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:42

       No.

   21. JLJim Lampley46:42

       Tea- team sports are easier. Uh-

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:44

       For sure.

   23. JLJim Lampley46:45

       ... and, and, um, and so, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking that every fighter reaches a point where, enough.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:54

       Yes.

   25. JLJim Lampley46:54

       And, and, and they might reach that point without really cognitively knowing that they've reached that point where it's enough.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:00

       Right.

   27. JLJim Lampley47:01

       Hagler went to Italy, as you say.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:03

       Yeah.

   29. JLJim Lampley47:03

       Maybe he had already reached something like enough-

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:07

       Could be.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Interesting. …

   1. JLJim Lampley1:00:00

      that." Don Dunphy, crisp, precise, factual, on point, that's who I'm hearing in the back of my head when I, uh, when I call fights.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

      Interesting.

   3. JLJim Lampley1:00:10

      Yeah, so he, he thought he could get rid of me by assigning me to boxing.And, um, he also did not seem to be paying much attention to the fact that his division, with leadership of a guy named Alex Wallau, who was a boxing freak, had just signed a get acquainted look-see contract with a 19-year-old heavyweight from Upstate New York, whose name was Mike Tyson.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:33

      Yeah.

   5. JLJim Lampley1:00:33

      So the first fight I ever called on TV was Mike Cu- Tyson versus Jesse Ferguson in Glens Falls, New York. And this is the famous drive his nose bone into his, into his brain fight.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

      Yeah.

   7. JLJim Lampley1:00:46

      Alex went to do post-fight interview after Tyson had obliterated Jesse's nose with an upper cut. There was blood all over the ring. And, uh, and Alex said, you know, "Mike, tell me about the upper cut." And Mike said, "Cut D'Amato taught me that the purpose of the upper cut is to drive the opponent's nose bone into his brain. I was trying to drive his nose bone into his brain."

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:08

      (laughs)

   9. JLJim Lampley1:01:09

      And I'm standing on the other side of the ring listening to this, headset on, and I thought to myself, "Oh my God, look at what I've stumbled into here. This kid is not only gonna be the biggest attraction in boxing, he's gonna th- be the biggest attraction in American culture if he can keep coming up with quotes like that." And of course, within the next few weeks, they all started spilling out, "Boxing is a hurt business. Everybody's got a plan until you hit them." All the things that D'Amato had taught him, which he memorized and then reproduced in his media contacts.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

       Yes. One of my favorite TV fights was him versus Marvis Frazier 'cause it was such a terrifying execution.

   11. JLJim Lampley1:01:53

       I'm giving away too much of the book, Joe. I mean, uh, my, my publisher would say, "Wait, don't tell him the whole book."

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

       Come on, people are gonna buy it anyway.

   13. JLJim Lampley1:01:59

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:59

       Don't worry about that.

   15. JLJim Lampley1:02:00

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

       Don't ever listen to publishers.

   17. JLJim Lampley1:02:01

       So Alex Wallau, Alex Wallau and I lived f- five blocks apart on upper Fifth Avenue in New York. And when we went to Upstate New York for the Tyson fights, of which there were several, we would always ride up in his, uh, green Jaguar and he knew the route. I mean, he would drive, play me his esoteric rock music. You ever heard of Cock Robin? Try him out sometime.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:25

       No. (laughs)

   19. JLJim Lampley1:02:26

       Um, and, uh, and so all the way up to Albany for the Marvis Frazier fight, Alex is saying to me, "You know, I'm thinking of saying in the opening on camera that Mike will knock him out in the first round. Do you think that's too audacious?" And I said, "Well, Alex, you're the expert, you know, I'm just a throw-in blow by blow guy who's trying to get my feet wet here. I'm the last person who's gonna tell you what it is you should say. So if you believe Mike is gonna knock him out in the first round and you're confident saying that, first of all, no one's gonna penalize you on Monday if you're wrong. Nobody's gonna print some big headline that says, 'Wallau was crazy' or something like that. It's, it goes into the wash at that point. And second of all, if you're right, you will get credit for it. If you're right, Rudy Martzke will say so in USA Today." Um, and so that's our position for two thirds of the trip to Albany. And now in the last, oh, 40 or 50 miles, he starts saying, "What if I said he's gonna knock him out in the first minute? Do you think that's too brave?" Same thing, "Alex-"

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:03:39

       (laughs)

   21. JLJim Lampley1:03:39

       "... if you believe he's gonna knock him out in the first minute, go ahead and say he's gonna knock him out in the first minute. I'm not here to control you or tell you what to say. Say whatever you want to say. I think I'm gonna say that he's gonna knock him out in the first minute." So the following day we do a rehearsal for the opening on camera and he says he'll knock him out in the first minute. Then when we do the live opening on camera for the show, he gets a little more cautious and he pulls it back to, there you are-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:04:06

       Look at young, handsome Jim Lamplugh.

   23. JLJim Lampley1:04:08

       ... that's to Lamplugh. Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:04:08

       Look at you.

   25. JLJim Lampley1:04:10

       Hair parted on the right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:04:11

       (laughs)

   27. JLJim Lampley1:04:11

       We'll get to that in a moment. Um, he, uh, he pulls it back and when we do it live on camera, he says, "Mike will knock him out in the first round." Was it 33 seconds or 31 seconds?

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:04:24

       Yeah.

   29. JLJim Lampley1:04:24

       I think it was 33 seconds. And all the way back to New York-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:04:29

       He's like, "Should've said the first minute." (laughs)
6. 1:15:00 – 1:21:08

   Mm. …

   1. JLJim Lampley1:15:00

      Jack Nicholson, who became a close friend and later sur- saved my career, but that's another story. And I had asked Jack on the golf course about two or three weeks before Tokyo. I said, "Jack, when you're going to the set to deliver the fulcrum line in the movie, when you're going to the set to do the one thing that everybody in the audience is going to remember, when you're getting ready to go deliver 'You can't handle the truth,' what is it you have on your mind? What's your mantra?" He said, "Lamp, same thing I've been saying to myself ever since I first went to acting class: Don't overact."

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:40

      Mm.

   3. JLJim Lampley1:15:41

      So, I'm in Tokyo, the count reaches four or five, and I hear, in the back of my mind, Jack's voice, "Don't overact." And that call became, "Mike Tyson has been knocked out," in about that tone of voice. I wanted to make it as matter-of-fact as possible, because there was nothing I could do-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:16:02

      Right.

   5. JLJim Lampley1:16:02

      ... to elevate it, by screaming-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:16:04

      Right.

   7. JLJim Lampley1:16:04

      ... or shouting or-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:16:05

      Right, right, right.

   9. JLJim Lampley1:16:05

      ... delivering any kind of window dressing, et cetera. It was what it was.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:16:10

       Right.

   11. JLJim Lampley1:16:11

       "Mike Tyson has been knocked out." That was that.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:16:13

       I remember that.

   13. JLJim Lampley1:16:14

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:16:15

       Now that you said it, I remember that. Wow.

   15. JLJim Lampley1:16:17

       Well, thank you.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:16:19

       Yeah.

   17. JLJim Lampley1:16:19

       I appreciate because you remember.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:16:20

       Because it was so... It was energetic but matter-of-fact.

   19. JLJim Lampley1:16:23

       Well, there it is. ... two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:16:33

       He's, he wa-... It's over. It's over.

   21. JLJim Lampley1:16:34

       Mike Tyson has been knocked out. All right. So, I did shout a little bit.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:16:38

       Yeah. (laughs)

   23. JLJim Lampley1:16:39

       I did shout it a little bit. All right. I give-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:16:41

       But just a little bit. No, it was perfect. Boy.

   25. JLJim Lampley1:16:41

       I give myself too much credit for the matter of fact, but that of course was... That's my younger voice.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:16:46

       Yes.

   27. JLJim Lampley1:16:46

       It was a little bit higher.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:16:48

       That was... What a, what an event.

   29. JLJim Lampley1:16:49

       Octavio Maran was the name of the referee.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:16:52

       I just remember Buster Douglas winning that fight, thinking, "Man, what ha- what happens to him now? Now he's the king of the world."

Episode duration: 2:18:47