EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,002 words- 0:00 – 1:02
Emanuel Steward’s legacy: the Kronk hat, brotherhood, and a sudden loss
- JLJim Lampley
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Oh, really? That was your closest male friend?
- JLJim Lampley
Unexpected.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah?
- JLJim Lampley
Unexpected, but over a period of time, we just got closer and closer and closer, and, you know, very brotherly. And the last public appearance Emanuel ever made was my wedding in September of 2012. And that night, the wedding was at our house in Del Mar, California, and that night he, uh, his girlfriend came to me and said, "We have to leave early. Emanuel's having stomach pains." He was in oncology by the next week.
- JRJoe Rogan
(groans)
- JLJim Lampley
He was gone by three weeks later.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- JLJim Lampley
So, very touching to me, and, you know, deeply symbolic of my love for him, and thus the Kronk hat.
- 1:02 – 2:42
Why Emanuel Steward changed boxing training—and why he was elite on commentary
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. What a classic gem. And he was one of the first guys to realize, like if you crank the heat up, it actually gives guys better conditioning.
- JLJim Lampley
He realized a lot of things.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
And he, uh, Emanuel was a genius, uh, in a lot of ways. And there were a lot of, um, sort of time-honored rules and techniques in boxing that he quietly upended.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
You know? Because he was more advanced in his point of view and thought processes.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then everybody else sort of followed his lead.
- JLJim Lampley
Once they understood-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
... what he was doing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
Once you, if you, if you saw the McCrorys and Tommy-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
... and those guys-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
... why wouldn't you imitate, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right. Exactly, yeah. No, he was a-
- JLJim Lampley
And he did it at both the amateur and pro level too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JLJim Lampley
You know? So...
- JRJoe Rogan
And he was always fantastic too as a commentator, because he would give insight that you're really not gonna get from someone that's not, like with these fighters day in, day out, through an entire camp. He really understood things.
- JLJim Lampley
But when you consider the privilege I had, the expert commentators I work with, starting with Ray.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
That's one perspective. Then gravitating through George Foreman and Roy Jones. Emanuel's in there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
And to me, he was the best. I agree with you. The public responded more to Roy and Ray-
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course.
- JLJim Lampley
You know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Famous guys.
- JLJim Lampley
Because of their stardom.
- 2:42 – 8:18
HBO boxing vs the new marketplace: promoters, commentators, and UFC’s undercard advantage
- JRJoe Rogan
I was very pleased to hear you back on the microphone for that Times Square event.
- JLJim Lampley
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause it'd been so long, you know?
- JLJim Lampley
Six plus years.
- JRJoe Rogan
God, I was like, "That's crazy." It didn't make any sense. You were the best in the business, HBO was the best in the business, and when they stepped away from boxing, I was really heartbroken. I could-
- JLJim Lampley
Well, if, if, if you look at what happened, we go from situation where, um, the television networks have the authority and the, uh, self-belief to choose the commentators the way they want to.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
And then you get into a more subdivided and, um, widely disparate marketplace, and now the star promoters have a great deal more influence than you would have thought before. And now the star promoters start getting involved in, um, influencing who's on the air.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- JLJim Lampley
So PBC, um, Mayweather was never a fan. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JLJim Lampley
I mean, we got along, but he, you know, he would absolutely-
- JRJoe Rogan
Was this famous thing with Larry.
- JLJim Lampley
Well...
- JRJoe Rogan
Larry Merchant.
- JLJim Lampley
And, and I guess he associated me with Larry, which makes-
- JRJoe Rogan
Unfortunately.
- JLJim Lampley
... all the sense in the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
Kind of, but you weren't nearly as critical.
- JLJim Lampley
I was just the blow-by-blow guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
I'm not an expert commentator, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right.
- JLJim Lampley
So I tried very hard, not always easy, but I tried very hard never to go over the line into doing what the experts were supposed to do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. No, you were excellent at that. It just, uh, it didn't make any sense to me that, you know... And, and Kellerman, he's also excellent, is another guy we should bring on.
- JLJim Lampley
And now he's back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. It's nice. And Andre Ward is another excellent guy.
- JLJim Lampley
Totally.
- JRJoe Rogan
It just, uh, the, the good thing about boxing was that HBO was completely independent from these promoters. And s-
- JLJim Lampley
And the bad thing about boxing is that the fighters don't get paid as much on the undercard fights and don't get paid as much coming up, as is the case in the more broadly organized UFC universe.
- 8:18 – 14:18
First fights and first heroes: Ali’s identity, Vietnam, and the years boxing lost
- JLJim Lampley
Can you remember what your first fight was?
- JRJoe Rogan
The first fight I watched, my parents watched it, which was crazy because my parents were hippies, and they were really interested in Ali's rematch with Leon Spinks.
- JLJim Lampley
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because Leon-
- JLJim Lampley
New Orleans.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. When Leon had beat Muhammad Ali, because Muhammad Ali was, he was a cultural icon as much as he was a sports figure.
- JLJim Lampley
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And-
- JLJim Lampley
I mean, like, multiply that by 100, you know, to, to get to where he was.
- JRJoe Rogan
He was very, very unique and his, his opposition to the Vietnam War made him a hero to many Americans.
- JLJim Lampley
Well, I always say, um, he was my childhood hero and he was my childhood hero as Cassius Clay. The very first live prize fight I ever attended was Cassius Clay versus Sonny Liston, February 25, 1964 in Miami Beach.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, you were there for the first fight?
- JLJim Lampley
I saved lawn mowing and car washing money for months-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JLJim Lampley
... to buy a ticket that, in my memory, was $100, but I don't really know for sure what the cost of that ticket was. I didn't save it. It would be worth millions now. Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
Can you imagine?
- JLJim Lampley
And my mother took me, my mother took me over from our crappy Southwest Miami tract house rental, uh, and dropped me off at the Miami Beach Convention Center, and then came and picked me up afterward.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JLJim Lampley
And I, I went in alone. Uh, and that was the first live-
- JRJoe Rogan
How old were you?
- JLJim Lampley
I was 14.
- JRJoe Rogan
14.
- JLJim Lampley
It was the first live prize fight I had ever attended. It was all about my hero worship for Cassius Clay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
Two days later, he stands on Brickell Avenue in Miami and tells two reporters that he's a follower of the Nation of Islam, and now his name is Muhammad Ali. And I'm in shock, okay? "What do you mean?" I'm y- "You're Cassius Clay, you can't."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
And so I, nowadays I say, "The lesson he taught me then was a man's identity is his own."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
And it does not matter how much I love him or cherish him or feel connected to him, he has the right to say who he is. I mean, back in those days, "Islam, what is that?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right.
- 14:18 – 20:31
Fighter damage, career longevity, and Roy Jones Jr.’s genius (and pitfalls)
- JLJim Lampley
Roy Jones.
- JRJoe Rogan
Roy Jones is a good example.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And Roy, you know, Roy famously, after Gerald McClellan was hurt win the Nigel Benn fight, he was r- really concerned because N- M- G- Gerald McClellan was the guy that a lot of people thought was a giant threat to Roy.
- JLJim Lampley
For a long period of time when Roy and I were working together, he was providing helpful financial support to McClellan's sisters, who were caring for Gerald.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
And, you know, keeping alive, uh, on a daily basis, I think, in Illinois or Ohio, some place like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JLJim Lampley
But, uh, yeah, Roy loved all other fighters, and he did what he could to help with McClellan.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know that that loss that McClellan had and the subsequent medical issues, the stroke and the aneurysm, all that stuff, uh, really disturbed Roy and made him think, you know, about getting out early.
- JLJim Lampley
100%. Yeah. 'Cause, 'cause Roy was nothing if not smart.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
Roy was brilliant, okay?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
And Roy very assertively fought in a style that would limit harm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow, it's awesome.
- JLJim Lampley
He didn't want to get hurt.
- JRJoe Rogan
His gifts. I mean, what a, what a guy. Like who else in recent memory lead with left hooks?
- JLJim Lampley
Well, there's heavyweight boxing and then there's weight class boxing. Ali is the unique physical specimen in heavyweight boxing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
Roy is the unique physical specimen in weight class boxing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
You know? And, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
So much so that he actually won the heavyweight title.
- JLJim Lampley
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is crazy. Crazy.
- JLJim Lampley
Exactly right. Whatever he wanted to do, if he put his mind to it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
... he could do that, you know? And, and, um, a part of the ongoing cliché was he could play any sport. You know, he could be great in football, basketball, baseball, et cetera, et cetera.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 20:31 – 27:23
George Foreman’s prediction, the ‘It Happened’ call, and why power is more than strength
- JLJim Lampley
You know, thus the title of my book. Thank y- thank you so much, George, a- 'cause you know the reason why my book is titled It Happened?
- JRJoe Rogan
Why?
- JLJim Lampley
Or where, where I came up with It Happened? So, he was the expert commentator in the weeks leading to his fight with Moorer. He and I together had called Moorer against Holyfield when Moor- Moorer won the, the championship and in the weeks before he fought Moorer, I would pull him aside at crew meals and, um, fighter meetings and other occasions when I could get a minute with him. Three, four times, I asked him, "George, how are you gonna beat Moorer? He's a southpaw. He's a mover. He has great feet. Holyfield couldn't find him and Holyfield was much faster than you." And every time I said it, George would fix me with that implacable George Foreman gaze and say, "Jim, you watch. There will come a moment late in the fight. He will come and stand in front of me and let me knock him out." Always the same words.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JLJim Lampley
"He will come and stand in front of me and let me knock him out."
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JLJim Lampley
So now, as Moorer's on the canvas, and Joe Cortez is six, seven, eight, and I'm thinking, "What am I gonna say about this?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JLJim Lampley
(laughs) How in the world do you establish this without being self-glorifying, you know? I've go- I've got to say something that's meaningful but I want it to be about him.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
And I thought about what he had said to me, and what came out spontaneously was, "It happened." It happened.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
It's really me talking to George, saying to him, "Okay, I get it."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. (laughs)
- JLJim Lampley
"You told me it was gonna happen and it happened."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, do you remember when George came back and he was 300 pounds and everybody was laughing at him and he was in his late 30s, I believe? Was he 34, 35?
- JLJim Lampley
Something like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
When he made his comeback, he hadn't fought in 10 years. Everyone dismissed him, like, "What is he doing?" He was very overweight.
- JLJim Lampley
And he started the Bum of the Month Tour.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JLJim Lampley
You, you know what I mean? And, and that, that's not a fair way to say it. They weren't bums, but they were people that he knew he could beat-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
... to build a dossier toward what he really wanted.
- JRJoe Rogan
And get in shape.
- JLJim Lampley
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
And no one believed in him. No one. I remember me, w- as a boxing fan, watching that comeback, being sad. Like, "Oh, George Foreman's coming back and he's all fat now? This is sad."
- JLJim Lampley
Well, I'm sure you've known a lot of people like this, Joe. You wanna see George do something? Tell him he can't do it. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right.
- JLJim Lampley
Challenge his will, you know, because he's self-constructed person. You're talking about a guy who, as a teenager, 17 or 18 years old, says to himself, "I want to get out of the Fifth Ward of Houston. I don't want this life as a gangster or, uh, a laborer or whatever I'm going to get by living in the Fifth Ward of Houston. I want something else." So he goes to the Job Corps in Hayward, California and enrolls in the Job Corps and that's where he learned to box. That-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- 27:23 – 31:53
Footwork and innovation: Lomachenko, Usyk, and the fine margins that decide fights
- JRJoe Rogan
And I think the greatest at angles of all time is Lomachenko. Nobody, nobody moves like that.
- JLJim Lampley
The greatest footwork.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, my God.
- JLJim Lampley
The greatest hand skills, the, the most effective training by his father.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, what a genius move to take him out of boxing for two years to study Ukrainian dance.
- JLJim Lampley
And... Brilliant.
- JRJoe Rogan
Brilliant.
- JLJim Lampley
Absolutely brilliant. Yeah, and, and by the way, he had an effect on the national team for several years. And what culture in the world has had more accomplishments and surprising new stars in boxing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
... other than Ukraine?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. And Usyk, who is basically, like, moves like a giant Lomachenko, just not quite as effective though.
- JLJim Lampley
That's a really great phrase that I had never conjured before this moment.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
Thank you, Joe. A giant Lomachenko.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
That's exactly what it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
You can't quite move that well when you're 220 pounds, you're just dealing with gravity and mass.
- JLJim Lampley
But you're still creating unique angles.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
You're, you're coming at them from unique approaches-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
... et cetera.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
You're hard for your opponent to figure out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
And Usyk is impossible-
- JRJoe Rogan
And in constant motion.
- JLJim Lampley
... for most other heavyweights. Constant motion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Constant motion.
- JLJim Lampley
Constantly cutting off the ring with his feet.
- 31:53 – 41:44
Mayweather–Pacquiao: strategy, timing, money, and the birth of the modern boxing villain brand
- JLJim Lampley
So, Marquez exposed the difficulties that Pacquiao could have against a great counterpuncher. And now we get ready for Mayweather-Pacquiao.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mayweather just did such a smart thing, but also a devious thing, waiting until Pacquiao was older, waiting till he slowed down, and then-
- JLJim Lampley
Devious is not illegal in boxing. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's- it's encouraged.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah. In any entrepreneurial sport, devious is not illegal.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- JLJim Lampley
Devious can be an asset.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's how you retire with a 50-0 record.
- JLJim Lampley
I give Floyd credit for brilliance. Okay?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
'Cause Floyd wasn't just a smart fighter. Floyd was a brilliant fighter. He was on his own level. And so much so, you know, in any matchup between the great counterpuncher and the great attacker, you know that the counterpuncher has the advantage.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JLJim Lampley
He's got more options. He's got more ways of winning. The attacker has to break through the wall, so to speak. So, in the years before Mayweather-Pacquiao, people would run up to me on the street, run up to me in the shopping center in Vegas, run up to me in a hotel, "When am I gonna see Mayweather-Pacquiao?" And I would say, "Well, we don't know, but what exactly is it you think you're going to see?" "Oh, I can't wait! It's gonna be such a great fight." "No, it's not gonna be (laughs) a great fight."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JLJim Lampley
"It's gonna be watching, like, watching somebody pluck the legs off a f- a spider. All right? Uh, you know, uh, uh, at a step-by-step method, and y- you're going to watch Mayweather pluck the legs off the spider that is Pacquiao, and it's going to be pretty easy for him, and it's not gonna be wildly entertaining, but it is gonna be a one-sided victory. So, why are you so excited about the Pa- 'Oh, no, I don't think that's the case,' da-da-da-da-da." But if you knew Floyd, you know, Floyd was only about winning the fight. He'll make fans other way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
On the web. I call him the first great social media genius.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. He was great at talking shit. He got everybody upset at him so badly that they wanted to see him lose, and that would sell tons of pay-per-views.
- JLJim Lampley
He realized you could build an audience with negativity.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. (laughs) That's hugely-
- JLJim Lampley
You didn't have to be an omnibus character. You didn't have to be somebody everybody loved. You could be totally negative.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
And that would build a following too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. When he shifted from Pretty Boy Floyd to Money Mayweather, changed the whole thing. Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
He knew what he was doing.
- JRJoe Rogan
He definitely did. Uh, look, the... And it was... It would've been an interesting fight had he fought Pacquiao when he was younger, in his prime. It would've been a very different fight.
- JLJim Lampley
It would've been a more interesting fight. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Much more different.
- 41:44 – 49:32
Power, gifts, and obsession: from Foreman’s ‘science’ to Hagler–Hearns and boxing’s hardest debates
- JLJim Lampley
I can't. None. No, obviously. Um, what I, what I did learn that may relate to that is Foreman was at great pains to explain to me, and explained a couple of times, that power punching is not a physical gift.Power punching is a science. Power punching is the product of real technical knowledge. Power punching is about, um, footwork, weight shift, uh, the angle at which you deliver the punch. Uh, you know, all sorts of things not directly related to your strength or "power." Uh, and George was a disciplined and knowledgeable scientist, uh, about stuff like that. And he, he explained it all to me one time. And of course, if you watched the Moorer knockout-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
... he lands the first one too, right on the button.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JLJim Lampley
And then having Moerer where he wants him, he puts a little more mustard on the second one too and we're out of there.
- JRJoe Rogan
He puts some more. But there are physical gifts that you are just... They're just God-given gifts of power. Like the-
- JLJim Lampley
Big hands, big hands.
- JRJoe Rogan
Big hands are, uh...
- JLJim Lampley
Shoulders.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah, all that.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's just certain guys though that just have extraordinary power. Like you remember Julian Jackson in his prime?
- JLJim Lampley
Oh my gosh.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JLJim Lampley
Hulk. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Extraordinary power.
- JLJim Lampley
At- at some moment or another, he's gonna get you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was just disturbing-
- JLJim Lampley
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... how hard he hit.
- JLJim Lampley
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was just different than everybody else.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it looked like he was doing the same thing, but the results were so much different.
- JLJim Lampley
How about Andy Lee? Skinny, not somebody you would expect to have-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
... you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 49:32 – 56:01
Canelo’s durability puzzle, monster matchups, and Bernard Hopkins’ blueprint for longevity
- JLJim Lampley
And now we deal with Canelo-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
... who has had one knockdown attributed to him in his career, and in my view, it was bullshit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which fight was that?
- JLJim Lampley
So, it was Miguel Cotto's little brother, Jose Cotto. It was the first time we had Canelo on, uh, HBO. Believe it was an undercard of a top-rank pay-per-view. I'm not 100% certain, uh, about that. And, um, Cotto's little brother, Jose, caught, uh, Canelo with a right hand body punch to the chest, and Canelo hit the ropes behind him and bounced off the ropes, kind of unbalanced. He didn't go down, but he came off the ropes ungainly, unbalanced, et cetera. And the referee, and I can't remember which referee, stepped in and very technically ruled that the ropes had held him up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh.
- JLJim Lampley
So, that's the only official knockdown in Canelo's career, and he didn't touch the canvas.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy.
- JLJim Lampley
Nobody has ever put him on the canvas, and this is part of what, uh, Terence is facing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJim Lampley
... as he gets ready to fight him in September, is you're, you're fighting a guy who, up to this moment in his career, has been utterly knockout proof.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JLJim Lampley
Knockdown proof.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, even against a guy like Bivol, who's huge.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know?
- JLJim Lampley
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
A huge light heavyweight.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah, but Bivol is, Bivol is, I'm gonna say at least 50/50 a backup counter-puncher. Uh, and they don't muster exactly the same power as a go-forward attacker.
- JRJoe Rogan
True.
- JLJim Lampley
I think, you know, you notice that he hasn't fought Beterbiev. Uh, and I'm not sure that Beterbiev would be the right matchup, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
For Canelo.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJim Lampley
For Canelo.
- JRJoe Rogan
Can-
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think that would be a nightmare matchup. Yeah, Beterbiev, especially... Even though he's almost 40 now, right? Is he 40?
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He might be 40.
- 56:01 – 1:30:14
How HBO boxing ended—and how Lampley’s boxing career began (Tyson, Merchant, and the art of the call)
- JRJoe Rogan
Mmm. Yeah, that was a great show, man. That was another bummer when, when HBO stopped doing boxing.
- JLJim Lampley
Well, look, when I mean, I, I say-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it had to be successful for them. That's what I don't understand.
- JLJim Lampley
... I like to say this, it wasn't HBO, okay? The minute that Time Warner was bought by a bunch of cellphone salesmen from Dallas, AT&T-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- JLJim Lampley
... the character of the operation changed.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mmm.
- JLJim Lampley
And the first thing that went away was boxing. Um, it's in my book. You'll read it. Uh, there's an anecdote about, uh, me, uh, at a post Emmy Awards or post Golden Globe Awards event in Hollywood, shortly after AT&T had purchased HBO. And I was seated at the table of Richard Plepler, the, uh, longtime brilliant chairman of HBO, my beloved boss. And, um, Plepler said, "See that guy over there in the gray suit?" And I said, "Yeah." He said, "That's your new boss. That's John Stankey, the CEO of AT&T. I think you ought to go say hello. I think you ought to go meet him and just spend a little time with him." So, I took his advice, I went over and had a 10-minute discussion with Stankey, very nice, um, very cordial, fun. And I walked back to Plepler's table, and he said, "So, what do you think?" I said, "I think boxing is dead." He said, "I agree with you, I just wanted to be sure that we were on the same page."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God.
- JLJim Lampley
Yeah. So it was clear, it was clear from that moment that they, they were not interested in going forward with something as-
- JRJoe Rogan
Why did you think boxing was dead? Why'd you say that?
- JLJim Lampley
Well, I, I mean, I could just tell from the way in which he spoke to me and the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- JLJim Lampley
... the, you know, the, the, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you weren't saying it based on your personal opinion.
- JLJim Lampley
... diffident replies to questions like, "Are we gonna do this fight?" You know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh...
- JLJim Lampley
... "What do you think about that?" Stuff like that. It was abundantly clear that they just, they saw it as a negative rather than a positive. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
In public perception or profitability?
- JLJim Lampley
Profitability.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really? But it was the place.
- JLJim Lampley
Too many unpredict-... many unpredictables in boxing. You schedule a show, somebody gets hurt, et cetera. I, I think they didn't want that kind of, um, real-life upheaval, and also, they saw it as unsavory-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh...
- JLJim Lampley
... or at least it felt that way to me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJim Lampley
You know? So, um...
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, that-
- JLJim Lampley
Th- this goes to the fact, and you know this as well as I do or maybe better, people from outside combat sports don't understand combat sports.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- JLJim Lampley
Y- you know, you're either in the culture and you get it, or you're not.
Episode duration: 2:18:47
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode nCEijFwQFOw
