Joe Rogan Experience #2350 - Ryan Callaghan

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) You good? All right. Ryan Callahan, ladies and gentlemen. We brought you in here, hopefully we were gonna kill that public land sale deal-

   3. RCRyan Callaghan0:21

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      ... from the big beautiful bill-

   5. RCRyan Callaghan0:23

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      ... and we did it.

   7. RCRyan Callaghan0:24

      We did it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      Before we even got you in here.

   9. RCRyan Callaghan0:26

      Well, I mean, we're not out of the woods yet-

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       No?

   11. RCRyan Callaghan0:28

       ... is the, is the reality, yeah. I mean, we're ... I, I was hoping that, uh, you and I were gonna, were gonna team up and tee off on these sons of bitches and watch it die together. That would have been ideal.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       I think it's dead. I think it's dead.

   13. RCRyan Callaghan0:43

       It's, it is dead. It is dead. But we're a long way from this stuff being-

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       Dead ever.

   15. RCRyan Callaghan0:49

       ... dead ever.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Forever. Yeah.

   17. RCRyan Callaghan0:50

       Right, exactly.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       It, it's gotta be dead forever. That's not ... It's not theirs to sell. It's very unique to the United States. It's an amazing thing that we have. And I don't think people in other countries r- understand this. I don't think people in America even understand how unique it is. Like our public lands, what, what they did when they set that up, not just national parks but all the public lands, w- we created this insane resource, this beautiful resource where we can go into the mountains, into the woods and, and enjoy nature. And it's ours. It's, it's all of ours.

   19. RCRyan Callaghan1:23

       And I get, I mean, the amount of response from listeners that live outside the country and, and to a person are like, "Are you guys really gonna screw this up?"

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       (clicks tongue) Yeah.

   21. RCRyan Callaghan1:34

       They're like, "H- how, how do people not know? How do people not appreciate what you guys have?" Don't turn into this country or this country or this country. Basically any other country outside of Canada and the US.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:48

       I-

   23. RCRyan Callaghan1:48

       I think the, the real issue is the people in America that don't experience it and don't go there and don't know how insanely unique this situation is. Like I don't know how to say Chamath's last name. Palihapitiya, is that how you say it? Even he was tweeting this is a great deal, sell the land and, you know, we'll make some money. Like what the fuck are you talking about, man? Like, you know, you don't understand, like th- this, this was an incredible gift that they gave us when they set America up this way. Oh, y- yeah. And, and ... (laughs) It's not that they need to go out and experience. They can also understand just where food comes from, right? How, how we get cold water and fresh water in our taps. Um, that public resource is working on our behalf 24/7, 365. Always has been and always will be as long as we don't screw it up, right? Um, so it's not just the recreational part of it. It is ... I mean, it, it is no different than, if you want to think of it in these terms, than some, you know, one-arm jack pumping oil out of the ground. Like it is constantly working on our behalf and it, it being public land, needs to be intact, an intact ecosystem to do its job. And there's less and less of it every year. So like for instance, right, like America's grasslands, we're leavin' ... we are losing two million acres, and grasslands are kind of like a catchall phrase a little bit, but it'd be like sage brush ecosystem, short grass prairie, mixed grass prairie, but we're losing two million acres a year. It's the most threatened ecosystem not just in the US but in the entire planet, and people are like, "Oh, it's just grass. Not doing anything."

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       How are we losing it?

   25. RCRyan Callaghan3:47

       Development.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:48

       Really?

   27. RCRyan Callaghan3:48

       Well, there's development but also, uh, encroachment of tree species so, um, cedars, junipers, stuff like that working their way back out on to the prairie, to the plain, and we used to have all these natural deforesters out there, bison, that wouldn't allow those trees to grow 'cause they like rubbing up on stuff and, and they'll destroy 'em. So, uh, you know, millions of bison out there physically removing or preventing that, uh, tree encroachment onto the plain. Those trees are sucking water out of the ground, making it more arid and more dry. Uh, water table goes down. Uh, you lose a lot of species diversification and people just do not know, Joe. They just don't know and they look at it and they're like, "It's just grass."

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:44

       Yeah, I never knew that it was two million acres a year. How many acres in the United States?

   29. RCRyan Callaghan4:49

       Uh, about 2.23 billion acres in the US.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:54

       So that, that's a lot. Like two million acres a year is a lot.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   So who's paying him?…

   1. RCRyan Callaghan15:01

      uh, "Oh, Mike Lee's getting pulled into the White House, and he's cutting deals, and we know exactly what's on his mind." And it was literally just like this opening in the world where nobody's talking about 18.5 million acres, so what if we started talking about 200 million acres or 500 million acres? And it just, like, totally kicked the door open to this whole enchilada fire sale, um, and had the dude not been as greedy, people may not have gotten as fired up about it. But, you know, kind of thank God he did.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:42

      So who's paying him?

   3. RCRyan Callaghan15:44

      Man, I think - and I'm not an expert on this - there's, there's some, like, real, uh, ideology here, like, uh, Mormon Church ideology. Um, you know, there's like a billion people in the Mormon Church, so not everybody thinks like this.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:00

      Is it really? There's a billion?

   5. RCRyan Callaghan16:01

      I don't know what that number is. There's a lot. It's... Wasn't it like the, the most, fastest growing religion there for a while?

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:09

      Is it because you get, uh, extra chicks? What is the deal? (laughs)

   7. RCRyan Callaghan16:13

      There's a lot of pretty people. There's a lot of pretty people, man. Uh, th- that's a hook, for sure.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:18

      Well, I have a friend who lives in Salt Lake, and he said that, like, they'll literally send hot girls to try to recruit people.

   9. RCRyan Callaghan16:25

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:25

       Like, they knock on your door and they're hot.

   11. RCRyan Callaghan16:29

       I mean, I can't blame them for going with what works, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:31

       (laughs)

   13. RCRyan Callaghan16:31

       I mean-

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       They're also... I- i- is... In terms of, like... It's a weird religion, right? 'Cause... Here... What's the number here? 17 million. Global membership.

   15. RCRyan Callaghan16:42

       Global membership, right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       So global, 17 million. So you were, you were off by a few hundred million.

   17. RCRyan Callaghan16:46

       Yeah, a few hundred million, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       (laughs)

   19. RCRyan Callaghan16:48

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       Uh, in 2024 they reached a 27-year high. Wow. Significant surge in b- in c- uh, convert baptisms in 2024. I wonder what, uh... Those hot girls going door to door.

   21. RCRyan Callaghan17:00

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       Um-

   23. RCRyan Callaghan17:01

       But there's an idea-

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       They're the nicest people.

   25. RCRyan Callaghan17:02

       Oh.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       They are the fucking nicest. Mormons are the nicest. Uh, I had a few neighbors that were Mormons when I lived in California, they're my favorite people. Like, out of all the people in-

   27. RCRyan Callaghan17:12

       Absolutely.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:13

       ... in a weirdo religion.

   29. RCRyan Callaghan17:14

       Absolutely.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:16

       This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken Parmesan delivered. A day in the sun? No. A bottle of rum? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that for almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. RCRyan Callaghan30:00

      tribes in there, and then, uh, the only other group would've been land owners within the checkerboard pattern, how we have like that, you know, grid system of, uh, federal land ownership and, and private land ownership. Um, those land owners could also purchase more than anybody else would've been allowed to purchase, so state, local-... than your, uh, tribes and local landowners. So, basically, like a huge handout to, you know, like, w- you know the corner crossing case that we've been talking about, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:44

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RCRyan Callaghan30:44

      Iron Bar Holdings? They would have just purchased all those checkerboard pieces, and would have been legally allowed to do that.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:51

      Let's explain cor- corner crossing to people.

   5. RCRyan Callaghan30:52

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:52

      So, what corner crossing is, is like, say, if there's an enormous piece of public land, but the only way you can get to it is to cross over a very small corner of private land. For the longest time, that was prohibited and you would get arrested. So, you-

   7. RCRyan Callaghan31:07

      You could, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:07

      You could get arrested for trespassing.

   9. RCRyan Callaghan31:09

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:09

       You know? And we're talking about like a couple of feet.

   11. RCRyan Callaghan31:12

       Oh, not e- I mean, not, we're talking about something so small you can't even possibly see it, right? That's, that's why it's been, it's like a theory, right? It's w- it's like y- for all the physics majors out there, right, it's like that game of like, well, how do you get some place if you only go 50% of the way, right? You'll, you keep going 50% and 50% and 50%, it's like a, a theory. Whereas in reality, like all it is is a footstep.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       Yeah.

   13. RCRyan Callaghan31:42

       Like, you're gonna cross that corner in a footstep, and we know where corners come together, 'cause it's right here. But that theory thing is like, well, the, and then the air space-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:54

       Yeah.

   15. RCRyan Callaghan31:54

       ... all the way down to the center of the earth and to the heavens is how it's written.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       The crazy thing is, like you could legitimately do it in a hop. (laughs) So, you would never have stepped foot at all on private land.

   17. RCRyan Callaghan32:07

       I'll tell you what my 97-year-old grandma, who's hooked up to an oxygen tank, could have stepped across. Like, I mean-

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:15

       Yeah.

   19. RCRyan Callaghan32:15

       ... it's, we're not talking about a feet of any sort.

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:18

       Yeah. We're not, we're not talking about like a football field that you have to cross.

   21. RCRyan Callaghan32:22

       No.

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:23

       No. We're talking about like a couple inches.

   23. RCRyan Callaghan32:25

       Yep. So just like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:26

       Which is so nuts.

   25. RCRyan Callaghan32:27

       Oh, it's, it's infuriating is what it is. So just like on your, your checkerboard at home, pick any four corners that come together, where the two reds, imagine those are public and the two blacks are private.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:39

       So here it is.

   27. RCRyan Callaghan32:40

       There you go. Beautiful.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:40

       And we'll explain it right there.

   29. RCRyan Callaghan32:42

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:42

       So those little tiny spots in the corner-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   So, the kiosk is…

   1. RCRyan Callaghan45:00

      So, um, they, they work with the state of Montana for a private land, public access program where, um, you know, you can sign up, uh, either at just like a kiosk type deal, sign in box, and walk out on their place. Um, but then they have like yurts that you can rent and they'd-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:19

      So, the kiosk is just it's just set up as you get there?

   3. RCRyan Callaghan45:22

      Yep.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:22

      And you, you just put in your name and what time you're going there and ... Do you have to have any kind of ID that you put in there?

   5. RCRyan Callaghan45:29

      Nope.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:29

      Nothing?

   7. RCRyan Callaghan45:29

      No. No, I mean, uh, the state of Montana won't ask for your license plate number. Um, and your, your home address and phone number, and that's it, so ... Um, and then, it's ... I mean, they're going to have a lot of gorgeous ground. Honestly, you know, when we did our, our big float in Montana?

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:48

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RCRyan Callaghan45:49

      Uh, they own, uh, some of that property now that, that runs right up to the Missouri right, right there around Cow Island is kind of where we took out real close to there. Um, and they, they own ... I mean, they owned some of the stuff that we hiked around on.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:04

       Oh, wow.

   11. RCRyan Callaghan46:04

       Yeah. Yeah. But their, their, their vision is to have this big contiguous chunk and have it run like a, you know, pre-European civilization here on the North American continent.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:20

       Wow.

   13. RCRyan Callaghan46:21

       Yeah. Yeah. And it's ... I mean, it's gorgeous stuff and, uh, they, they provide for some, uh, buffalo hunts out there, so you can draw a tag and, uh, go out and shoot, uh, a yearling or an old bull. And they give you a ... It's not like a hand hold thing.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       When they say an old bull, uh, how do you determine?

   15. RCRyan Callaghan46:48

       Just by sheer size.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:50

       Eyesight? Just size.

   17. RCRyan Callaghan46:51

       Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       So, you have to be experienced. You have to know what you're doing.

   19. RCRyan Callaghan46:54

       Yeah, and they'll, they'll give you some, some classes and some pointers, but they don't hold your hand and say, "Hey, come shoot this one."

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:02

       Right.

   21. RCRyan Callaghan47:03

       It's like, here's this information.

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:05

       Mm-hmm.

   23. RCRyan Callaghan47:06

       Return it when you're done. Rules of the ranch, all that stuff. Go through this gate. Enjoy it. Leave it how you, how you found it, type of thing.

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:16

       Mm-hmm.

   25. RCRyan Callaghan47:16

       So, and, and I've, I've never done it myself, but people have had really fantastic experiences out there doing that. And obviously that's an absolute shitload of meat, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:26

       Oh, yeah.

   27. RCRyan Callaghan47:27

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:27

       And if they do that widespread, like, what is the ultimate goal? Like, how much land are we talking about and, like, are they bringing animals in or are they allowing the existing animals to breed and ... Like, how are they doing it?

   29. RCRyan Callaghan47:41

       So, yes, to allowing the existing animals to breed, and yes to bringing the animals in. So, um, they're coming out of the, I think, the Yellowstone population more than anything, and then they work with the, the local tribes up there to kind of, uh, bring those animals in and, uh, some go to the tribe and then some go stay on the prairie, I think is how it goes. Um, and then the reason that they're allowing, uh, for these old bulls to be shot is because they're no ... they're no longer breeding.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:19

       Right.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Yeah. …

   1. NANarrator1:00:00

      at around 500,000, smaller portion, 31,000 managed, and then like 6,000 in Yellowstone.

   2. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:09

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

      Hmm.

   4. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:10

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:10

      There it is.

   6. NANarrator1:00:11

      They're very varying numbers, though.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:13

      Boy, they came so close to being wiped out.

   8. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:15

      Oh, it's so wild. It's so-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:17

      It really is crazy.

   10. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:18

       So wild. I was staring at, uh, I was like, "Jeff, what's the deal with this skull," your bison antiqua skull that you have out there.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

       Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   12. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:27

       That thing is-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

       Yeah.

   14. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:28

       ... amazing.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

       That's from my friend John Reeves in Alaska. Yeah.

   16. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:31

       I was wondering, yeah, I was wondering where that thing came from.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:33

       Do you know about the boneyard?

   18. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:33

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       You know about that place?

   20. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:34

       Oh, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:35

       That place is nuts.

   22. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:36

       For a dude who likes to pick stuff off the ground-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:00:38

       Yeah.

   24. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:38

       ... that's, uh, that's like a porn page.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

       Oh, yeah. It's a, it's a crazy place. And there, there's no real explanation of why there's such a population of dead animals in this one spot, you know? And he thinks it's connected to the Younger Dryas impact theory, 'cause there's a very clear, distinct line of carbon in his ground.

   26. RCRyan Callaghan1:00:56

       Hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

       Like that, you know, when you go deep, deep, deep into the ground, which represents where these, like a lot of these things that he's pulling, they're plus 10,000 years old.

   28. RCRyan Callaghan1:01:05

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       Like that, that stepped bison head, we didn't get it checked, we didn't have it sent off, but-

   30. RCRyan Callaghan1:01:10

       Yeah.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:28:59

   So the greater prairie…

   1. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:00

      it's a smaller version of that. That's the greater prairie chicken. We're looking for the lesser prairie chicken. Uh-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:06

      So the greater prairie chicken, how big is that?

   3. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:09

      Um, you're looking at like 16 to 18 ounces, I bet.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:15:17

      Hmm.

   5. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:17

      You got a size on that sucker?

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:15:19

      That's the big one.

   7. NANarrator1:15:21

      That is the bigger one.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:15:21

      So the little one's tiny.

   9. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:23

      Um, but 95% of the native habitat left for that bird is on private ground at this point.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:15:32

       Oh, wow.

   11. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:33

       Yeah, and that private ground is used for grazing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:15:36

       So 24 ounces to 42 ounces.

   13. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:39

       Oh, that's a big one.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:15:40

       Adults.

   15. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:41

       There you go.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:15:42

       That's the greater prairie chicken.

   17. NANarrator1:15:43

       Yeah, let me do the lesser prairie chicken.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:15:47

       Oh.

   19. NANarrator1:15:47

       Little more water.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:15:48

       What a cool looking little bird.

   21. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:50

       Oh, charisma.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:15:52

       When I was in, um-

   23. RCRyan Callaghan1:15:54

       (laughs)

   24. NANarrator1:15:54

       This guy's got ears.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:15:55

       Oh, whoa. That's crazy looking.

   26. NANarrator1:15:57

       It's got rabbit ears.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:15:59

       Yeah, how weird.

   28. RCRyan Callaghan1:16:00

       There's this awesome group of ranchers kinda in the, uh, Colorado, Oklahoma, New Mexico zone, um, and they, they formed the Lesser Prairie Chicken Landowner Alliance, and what they've been trying to do is get ... 'cause there's this, this huge conservation bill, biggest conservation package in the world, called the Farm Bill, and it has a lot of, um, incentive subsidy for, uh-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:16:27

       Look at those fucking ears.

   30. RCRyan Callaghan1:16:28

       ... farmers. Isn't that thing amazing?

Episode duration: 2:12:31