Joe Rogan Experience #2355 - Mike Baker

Mike Baker 0:00 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) We're up. We're up. We're up. Mike Bay- Mike Baker, what a-

Mike Baker 0:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:14 ... good time to talk to you.

Mike Baker 0:16 What a fine time.

Joe Rogan 0:16 What a good time to have you in.

Mike Baker 0:17 What a fine time.

Joe Rogan 0:18 There is so much chaos.

Mike Baker 0:19 There's... (laughs) It's so fucked up.

Joe Rogan 0:20 There's so much madness.

Mike Baker 0:21 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Did you see the South Park episode?

Mike Baker 0:24 Which- which- which one? Ta-

Joe Rogan 0:25 They did a Donald Trump one with Satan.

Mike Baker 0:28 No. No.

Joe Rogan 0:29 It's fucking hilarious. (laughs)

Mike Baker 0:31 Oh, I gotta- I gotta watch. I love it. The show is fantastic.

Joe Rogan 0:34 (yawning)

Mike Baker 0:34 I raised my three boys on that show w- much to my wife's horror, but it's a great show. But I haven't seen that episode.

Joe Rogan 0:41 It... When you think... Like, Bridget Phetasy had a funny quote, like, "When you think that they have reached the bottom of- of the, uh-"

Mike Baker 0:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:47 "... the highest level of not giving a fuck, they reach, uh, unseen levels." Is it... (sighs) The whole... The Epstein thing is so crazy.

Mike Baker 0:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:56 Like, and him saying, like, "What do you care? Why does everybody care about Epstein?" Like, wha- (laughs)

Mike Baker 1:01 (laughs) Well, that's a... Yeah, I... But it is.

Joe Rogan 1:03 (sighs)

Mike Baker 1:03 Look, I mean, uh, uh, although w- again, going back to South Park, uh, yeah, once they did the woodland creatures episode all those years ago, you thought, "Okay, that's gotta be the- the worst they can get," but-

Joe Rogan 1:12 Which one was the woodland creatures one?

Mike Baker 1:13 Oh my God, you gotta look it up. It was... It's fantastic. It... I- I'm not gonna do it justice if I try to explain what it's about. I- I guarantee you.

Joe Rogan 1:19 Well, remember when they did the gay teacher where he had a whore off with Paris Hilton-

Mike Baker 1:22 Yes, yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:22 ... and he stuffed her up his ass?

Mike Baker 1:24 Yes. (laughs)

Young Jamie 1:26 This was the other one.

Joe Rogan 1:27 Oh, God.

Young Jamie 1:27 About all the critters-

Mike Baker 1:28 Yeah.

Young Jamie 1:28 ... and they're all fussing and-

Joe Rogan 1:29 Oh, that's right.

Mike Baker 1:30 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 1:30 Oh, no, I forgot about that one. Yeah.

Young Jamie 1:32 That was 17 years ago. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:34 Yeah.

Mike Baker 1:34 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:34 They don't give a fuck, dude.

Mike Baker 1:35 No.

Young Jamie 1:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:36 They- they haven't-

Mike Baker 1:36 No.

Joe Rogan 1:36 ... given a fuck since the beginning, and it's the greatest-

Young Jamie 1:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:38 ... show of all time.

Mike Baker 1:39 Yeah. And honestly, if- if you said, "What would be the best job that you could've imagined?" it would be being one of those two guys working on that show.

Joe Rogan 1:46 Yeah, they're killing it.

Mike Baker 1:47 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47 And the thing is, like, it's so beautiful because they have cartoons and you could do things with cartoons you could never do with real people.

Mike Baker 1:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:54 You can kill them. They can fuck each other. They can stick things up their ass.

Mike Baker 1:57 Yeah, Carter gets that-

Joe Rogan 1:58 Like, anything can happen.

Mike Baker 1:59 ... alien probe.

Joe Rogan 1:59 Anything can happen because... And it's also they're not realistic cartoons, so it's like you're somehow-

Mike Baker 2:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04 ... or another detached from it.

Mike Baker 2:06 Yeah. No, they-

Joe Rogan 2:07 Oh.

Mike Baker 2:08 They- they... And if they... They did a documentary one time, I don't know if you saw that.

Joe Rogan 2:11 Oh, yeah.

Mike Baker 2:12 Where they- they tracked the six days it takes them to make-

Joe Rogan 2:14 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 2:14 ... the show. (laughs) Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 2:15 This is- this is Trump has been with Sat- Satan.

Mike Baker 2:17 Satan's back.

Joe Rogan 2:18 Satan's upsetting Trump. It's very funny.

Mike Baker 2:21 Hmm. Well, you remember the Satan and Diddy episode, all those... Tha- that was fantastic too.

Joe Rogan 2:25 I didn't see that one.

Mike Baker 2:26 Oh, the Satan Diddy episode, and then they had the- the, uh, they had the-

Joe Rogan 2:30 What was that? Is that Reason?

Mike Baker 2:30 ... the- the mass murderers and... No, this was... This was a few years back too. It was a Diddy party and he wa- he wanted to-

Joe Rogan 2:36 (laughs)

Mike Baker 2:36 Yeah, it's a long story. He wanted a Lamborghini cake, but, you know-

Joe Rogan 2:39 Oh.

Mike Baker 2:39 ... it was like a... The devil wanted it and they said, "No, Diddy did it already." And it's- it's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 2:44 Remember when they had the movie with Saddam Hussein?

Mike Baker 2:47 Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:47 And Saddam Hussein was in a gay relationship with Satan? (laughs)

Mike Baker 2:51 Yes. (laughs) Oh, God. You'd spend the entire time... People are like, "Are they gonna talk about this the whole time?" But-

Joe Rogan 2:55 Uh...

Mike Baker 2:56 ... yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:57 The Epstein stuff is so crazy-

Mike Baker 2:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:58 ... because when Kash Patel was on here and he was like, "There's no... There's nothing," and I was like, "What are you talking..." Uh-

Mike Baker 3:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:06 I didn't even know what to say. My thought was... And people are like, "Why didn't you push back more?" My thought was like, "I'm just gonna put this out there and let the internet do its work," 'cause there's nothing I can-

Mike Baker 3:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:13 The guy's saying there's no f- tapes, there's no video. That doesn't make any sense. Everyone knows it doesn't make any sense. Let's just... And then he didn't know about the Mi- the Michael Baden stuff-

Mike Baker 3:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:24 ... the autopsy stuff where it showed that he had three broken bones in his neck, which never happens-

Mike Baker 3:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:29 ... when you hang yourself.

Mike Baker 3:30 Yep.

Joe Rogan 3:30 Even when you, like, leap from somewhere with a rope around your neck and it snaps your neck-

Mike Baker 3:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:37 ... you never have three broken bones.

Mike Baker 3:38 And he's in a prison cell. He's not-

Joe Rogan 3:40 Yeah.

Mike Baker 3:40 ... launching himself off the first floor balcony.

Joe Rogan 3:42 The whole thing was nuts.

Mike Baker 3:43 Um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:43 And then they were li- he's like, "Well, we have a film. We're gonna release that film." And the film has a fucking minute missing from it.

Mike Baker 3:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:49 Like, do you think we're babies? Like, what is this?

Mike Baker 3:51 Plus, also, you got... You- you got people ma- including Dan Bongino, right, making bank for a couple of years talking about how awful it is.

Joe Rogan 3:58 Yeah.

Mike Baker 3:58 And, "We gotta get this shit," and, "This is..." "This..." "Huge conspiracy." And- and then you release a two-day... You know, a two-page memo that says, "Yeah, there's nothing to see here."

Joe Rogan 4:05 Yeah.

Mike Baker 4:05 You know?

Joe Rogan 4:05 'Cause you're walking by your bedroom window and you see-

Mike Baker 4:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:07 ... a little laser-

Mike Baker 4:08 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:09 ... a little red laser moving across your chest.

Mike Baker 4:11 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:11 (laughs)

Mike Baker 4:12 But it's so... It- it's really is. It's so con- Look, you know me, I'm not a c- and I'm not a conspiracy guy by nature.

Joe Rogan 4:16 Oh, you are today.

Mike Baker 4:17 But I am today.

Joe Rogan 4:18 You are today. (laughs)

Mike Baker 4:18 Today- today, I'm- I'm fully on board with this shit. Um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:22 Everybody's in today.

Mike Baker 4:23 Yeah. No, it... But, you know, and they're actually doing it, right as we- as we speak, um... And I find this fascinating, is that the, uh, the Assistant Attorney General, Todd Blanche, is down in Florida for an interview with Ghislaine Maxwell, right? She's serving t- 20 years in- in a Florida prison for sex trafficking, right?

Joe Rogan 4:41 To who, though?

Mike Baker 4:42 Um, f- what's that?

Joe Rogan 4:43 To who?

Mike Baker 4:45 Well, sh- he's down there to interview her, but-

Joe Rogan 4:46 Right, but I'm saying, she's- she's sex traffic to who?

Mike Baker 4:49 Oh, she was- well, she was a- a co-conspirator of Epstein's, right?

Joe Rogan 4:52 But don't you have to have a person-

Mike Baker 4:54 But ex- yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:54 ... who you're sex trafficking to in order-

Mike Baker 4:56 Exactly, and they talked about the victims somewhat during her trial. It was very... I mean, it was- it was a very difficult trial in the sense of, you know, they're- they're trying to, uh, protect certain victims and- and others were coming forward. But, you know, the- my surprise was nobody from DOJ has ever... According to her legal team, nobody has ever interviewed her from DOJ.

Joe Rogan 5:18 (laughs)

Mike Baker 5:18 Right? So, Department of Justice. So, this is the first time-

Joe Rogan 5:21 (laughs)

Mike Baker 5:21 ... the Department of Justice. You're telling me-

Joe Rogan 5:22 Uh...

Mike Baker 5:22 And meanwhile up on Capitol Hill, you've got Democrats like Adam Schiff and others going, "We have got to release these fucking files." They had four years under the previous administration, right?

Joe Rogan 5:30 Yeah.

Mike Baker 5:30 Look, everybody's fucked in this- in this situation, but they had all that time to do whatever they wanted to do and nobody, up until this point apparently, has talked to her. Now, you know, some folks on the legal side are saying, "Well, look, if she had anything interesting to say, she would've said it during the course of her trial," right? To save herself or to cut a deal.

Joe Rogan 5:47 No.

Mike Baker 5:48 Uh, but now her-

Joe Rogan 5:48 I don't think so.

Mike Baker 5:49 I don't... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:50 'Cause they'll kill her.

Mike Baker 5:50 Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 5:51 The smartest thing for her to do-

Mike Baker 5:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:52 ... is to keep her fucking mouth shut, which is what she did.

Mike Baker 5:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:55 They put her in a cushy prison where she could do yoga.

Mike Baker 5:57 Y- yeah. Yeah, yoga in prison. That doesn't sound good.

Joe Rogan 6:00 Here- here's one of my favorite ones.

Mike Baker 6:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:01 I'm gonna- I'm gonna send you this, Jamie, 'cause this... Somebody tweeted this and it's just so perfect. And it's... It just shows you how crazy this- this whole thing has been, like, from the very beginning. This is, uh... Someone tweeted this, from The Atlantic.And this is what, what it, what's funny about this, um... Check this out, Jamie. (laughs) So i- it's these fucking people. It's like, they all knew her, they all knew him.

Mike Baker 6:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:30 So many people knew him and knew her and they're all pretending that they didn't-

Mike Baker 6:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:35 ... that know one knew. Check this out. This is The Atlantic, says... (laughs)

Mike Baker 6:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:40 Scroll, go up, Baker, so we can see it, so we can see the quote below it, below it.

Mike Baker 6:44 I'm trying, I'm trying. I zoomed.

Joe Rogan 6:46 No, go back.

Mike Baker 6:47 No, I know I zoomed it.

Joe Rogan 6:48 There we go. I can't read it.

Mike Baker 6:51 There you go.

Joe Rogan 6:52 There it goes. Uh, "This is what The Atlantic p- posts. If the Epstein scandal teaches us anything, it's that America needs a dedicated and decently funded group of people whose job it is not to just ask questions, but to find answers." And then this guy, Sean Davis, posts, "The woman on the right is Ghislaine Maxwell. She trafficked children for Jeffrey Epstein. The woman on the left owns your magazine."

Mike Baker 7:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:18 This is so fucking wild-

Mike Baker 7:21 Yeah. Yeah. Everybody-

Joe Rogan 7:21 ... just that alone-

Mike Baker 7:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:23 ... is so wild that they would have the balls to post that.

Mike Baker 7:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:26 "We need dedicated journalists-

Mike Baker 7:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:29 ... not just people asking questions," which is like, for sure, an attack on podcasts.

Mike Baker 7:35 Well-

Joe Rogan 7:35 Like, listen, you guys didn't do shit.

Mike Baker 7:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:39 You didn't do shit. So just asking que- just the fact that we're just asking questions along with that, or is this a knock on the defunding of PBS, which is essentially a propaganda network for the Democratic Party?

Mike Baker 7:52 Yeah. Yeah, which is now being apparently, we'll see if that happens, but apparently being defunded. But yeah, look, everybody's, everybody's worried now, right? N- uh, at first it was like, okay, again, I go back a handful of years, nobody was, was pushing for this, right? Because you got people from all sides probably on whatever that list looks like, whatever that Epstein file looks like. Whoever was involved, you got people from all sides of the spectrum here going on. And so everybody's worried, so it looked like, all right, you know, there's kind of this bizarre bipartisan moment where we're not gonna push for this really. We're not gonna make a big effort here. We're not sending anybody from DOJ. The Dems aren't, during the Biden administration, calling for the release of the files. Now all of a sudden they smell, you know, blood in the water and a particular, you know, political motivation here, so let's get these files out and, you know, nobody's gonna look good from this. But I, again, I, I, I would caution some, you know, uh, that just because a f- a name might be in a file, no matter whose it is, right, doesn't necessarily mean there's nefarious activity. It could be like any, any police file, right, that says, okay, the individual stopped at this particular location and this person was there. Doesn't mean they're connected to something awful. It w- weren't fucking underage girls. Maybe they were if they're in the file, right?

Joe Rogan 9:06 Yeah.

Mike Baker 9:06 But I'm just saying, there's a lot of people probably in that file that are gonna be named, if it ever comes out, who may or may not have been engaged in, in, in, uh, illegal activity. But just release the goddamn things.

Joe Rogan 9:17 Yeah, there's probably a lot of people who just went there. Did I send you that thing where this guy was breaking... Did I say NPR or PBS earlier?

Mike Baker 9:23 You said NPR.

Joe Rogan 9:23 I meant NPR.

Mike Baker 9:24 You both of them I think, though. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Did I send you that thing, that link where this guy's breaking down all the different tweets that the lady who's the CEO of NPR made?

Mike Baker 9:32 I don't think so. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:35 (laughs) Be- because she's getting questioned on whether or not she's biased and then this guy like goes over all the different tweets. Goddamn it, I know I saved it, but I should've-

Mike Baker 9:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:44 ... I should've be, been prepared.

Mike Baker 9:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:47 I know I have it in here because i- it's so funny. It's so funny listening to her. See if you can find, i- you might be able to find it.

Mike Baker 9:52 Uh, I don't think it's... Oh, no, I zoomed it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:54 Oh, yeah, you found it. Beautiful. Because it's, it's so adorable-

Mike Baker 9:57 Now, I don't know and then...

Joe Rogan 9:57 ... this pretending that this was an unbiased news source.

Mike Baker 10:01 See if you can get this.

Joe Rogan 10:02 Yes.

Mike Baker 10:02 It's directly from her own account. Can you see?

Joe Rogan 10:04 Well, this is one of them, but let's, but this one guy broke it down.

Mike Baker 10:08 Sorry. Did you say Dave Smith?

Joe Rogan 10:10 Maybe I sent it to Dave Smith.

Mike Baker 10:16 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:17 We'll find it.

Mike Baker 10:18 Yeah, but I, I, again, anybody who at this stage of the game thinks that the media, you know, doesn't have an agenda, that they're not complicit in one way or another with whatever may be... Come on.

Joe Rogan 10:29 Yeah, it's a joke.

Mike Baker 10:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:30 It's a joke. And they're all funded and they're, I mean, the fact that the government was funding NPR is crazy.

Mike Baker 10:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Look, this, you, you can't have a completely biased, one-sided media organization that's funded by the government and taxpayers. That's crazy. And they went over all the, the amount of people that were on NPR that were Democrats and it's 100%.

Mike Baker 10:51 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:51 It's like out of 87 people, it's 100%.

Mike Baker 10:53 Right, so and look at The New York Times.

Joe Rogan 10:54 Yeah.

Mike Baker 10:55 I mean, and it, and so that, none of that should be a surprise to anybody who's-

Joe Rogan 10:57 But The New York Times at least-

Mike Baker 10:59 ... paying half a mon-

Joe Rogan 10:59 ... a privately funded company.

Mike Baker 11:01 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 11:01 I mean, it's like NPR relied on tax money-

Mike Baker 11:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:05 ... and there's this giant outrage that the government's gonna defund it. Like-

Mike Baker 11:08 Well, a lot of... And, and what they're trying to do is they're trying to couch it as saying, "Look, you're, you're taking away, you know, a, the only source of news for, you know, rural locations, for example. Like you got some place up in North Dakota that, you know, has no other access and so they rely-

Joe Rogan 11:21 (laughs)

Mike Baker 11:21 ... on NPR for their, their news." I don't know a lot of people up in North Dakota that say, "I wonder what NPR is saying about this."

Joe Rogan 11:27 Well, not just that, but th- it's like th- at the end of the day, the reality is the internet exists.

Mike Baker 11:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:33 And we don't-

Mike Baker 11:34 You don't...

Joe Rogan 11:34 ... need, you don't need to fund, publicly fund something that's clearly biased-

Mike Baker 11:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:40 ... when the internet exists.

Mike Baker 11:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:42 You can get whatever you want. If you wanna just d- ab- absorb and consume only left-wing media, there's so much available.

Mike Baker 11:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:48 You can go find it. But our tax dollars should not be going to that.

Mike Baker 11:52 No. No. And, and to be fair, if anybody wants to know what the hell's going on in the news, they can just listen to the President's Daily Brief podcast, frankly.

Joe Rogan 11:58 Oh, your, your podcast.

Mike Baker 11:59 I'm good, right?

Joe Rogan 12:00 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's your thing.

Mike Baker 12:00 That's, that's some... Yeah, boy, I just stuck that in there.

Joe Rogan 12:02 I can't find this fucking thing either-

Mike Baker 12:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:04 Did you find it?

Mike Baker 12:06 It's far as you c-

Joe Rogan 12:07 Let's hear it.

Mike Baker 12:09 (laughs) Show me a story-

Joe Rogan 12:10 Oh, here it is.

Mike Baker 12:10 ... that concerns you. That's fantastic.

Katherine Maher 12:12 As far as the accusations that we're biased, I would stand up and say, please show me a story that concerns you because we want to know and we want to bring that conversation back to our newsroom. As-

Mike Baker 12:22 And then they have all these-

Joe Rogan 12:23 And then all these... (laughs)

Mike Baker 12:25 Oh.

Joe Rogan 12:25 ... fatphobia and its racist past and present. Some white people may choose thumbs up because it feels neutral, but some academics argue that opting out... What does that mean, thumbs up signals-

Mike Baker 12:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:36 ... lacks awareness about white privilege, akin to society associating whiteness with being raceless.

Mike Baker 12:41 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 12:42 What? What does that mean?

Mike Baker 12:43 How about how racism became a marketing tool for country music?

Joe Rogan 12:46 Oh, yeah. That's a good one.

Mike Baker 12:48 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 12:48 This right-wing conspiracy theory about eating bugs is about as racist as you think.

Mike Baker 12:53 (laughs)

12:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:53 No, that's like literally... This is...

Mike Baker 12:57 Oh.

12:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:57 And here's another great quote that she said. If you look on the right side, Jamie, where it says, "The truth is a distraction from getting things done," that is such a fucking Orwellian thing to say. Click on that just so you can hear her say this-

Mike Baker 13:11 Oh.

Joe Rogan 13:11 ... because it's so bananas that someone would say this out loud and not think it's-

Narrator 13:16 One of the most significant differences critical for moving from polarization to productivity-

Mike Baker 13:22 Oh, God.

Narrator 13:22 ... is that the Wikipedians who write these articles aren't actually focused on finding the truth.

Mike Baker 13:26 Oh, no.

Narrator 13:27 They're working for something that's a little bit more attainable, which is the best of what we can know right now. And after seven years there, I actually believe that they're onto something.

Mike Baker 13:38 Oh.

Narrator 13:38 That for our most tricky disagreements, seeking the truth and seeking to convince others of the truth isn't necessarily the best place to start.

Mike Baker 13:47 (laughs)

Narrator 13:47 In fact, I think our reverence for the truth might become, might have become-

Mike Baker 13:53 What?

Narrator 13:53 ... a bit of a distraction that is preventing us from finding consensus and getting important things done.

Joe Rogan 13:59 What? Wha- how-

Mike Baker 14:00 Oh, my God. That's fantastic. I love that.

Joe Rogan 14:03 ... wild is that?

Mike Baker 14:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:04 And you want government mon... That is such-

Mike Baker 14:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:06 ... a wild thing to say.

Mike Baker 14:07 Yeah. You know, going for the truth as a journalist, no, no.

Joe Rogan 14:12 It's not important.

Mike Baker 14:13 No, it's not important.

14:13 It's a distraction.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Exactly.

Mike Baker 14:14 The truth is a distraction.

14:16 You know what I hate? I hate that... And you see that all the time in... I don't know whether that's in a TED Talk or not. But I... As soon as I see that type of forum where they're, they're earnestly standing there-

14:25 Yeah.

14:25 ... and they've got their little mouthpiece there around there and they're talking and they're looking out into the distance. And you, you think, "Oh, climb out of your own fucking ass," right?

14:33 (laughs)

14:33 It's just awful. Anyway.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Yeah, I don't l- I don't like any of those things.

Mike Baker 14:38 Yeah, um-

Joe Rogan 14:39 I don't like that little Bobby Brown microphone either.

Mike Baker 14:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:42 Un- Unless you're on stage.

Mike Baker 14:43 It's that Bobby Brown-

Joe Rogan 14:43 Remember?

Mike Baker 14:44 Yeah, I remember. No. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:44 When he used to sing with that? Every little step I take.

Mike Baker 14:47 Yeah. Oh, sorry. That's... Take me back (laughs) . Step on your line, I'll join in for the chorus.

Joe Rogan 14:51 I don't like those little microphones. Hold a microphone like a real fucking human.

Mike Baker 14:56 Mm. God.

Joe Rogan 14:56 It's a... Tha- tha- that's a madness. That video clip is madness. That's a piece of madness. That's a crazy thing to say.

Mike Baker 15:05 I will say-

Joe Rogan 15:05 That the truth gets in the way.

Mike Baker 15:07 I will say that the, the Epstein, um, the Epstein situation is gonna be so disappointing to so many people now. Because, um, I have this theory that nothing ever gets done in Washington DC, right? Investigations go to die there. Nothing ever happens. There's never any real consequences of any nature. And we got all sorts of things happening right now, right? So, so the Epstein case is just one of them. But right now, you've got, you've got the Dems focused on Epstein because, you know, again, they see... This is just... A good opportunity here to go after Trump, regardless of who else is in the files, right? And, and the Dems I think were worried for quite some time and didn't pursue it because, you know, years back they were thinking, "Okay, Clinton's going to be embarrassed. We don't want that."

Joe Rogan 15:50 Right.

Mike Baker 15:51 So again, my point would be just release everything. I don't understand how, if you just look at the way that they handled this logistically, whoever thought... Because the mob wants to eat, right? And they've been throwing red meat to the mob about Epstein files now for, for years.

Joe Rogan 16:07 It's part of how they got elected.

Mike Baker 16:08 Right. And so whoever in their communications group or in their strategic thinking arena in the administration thought, you know, that, "We can get away with just saying there's nothing to see here," they should be fired, right? Because there's no way you can satisfy this, this mob. And now the mob is oddly bipartisan because it's got the Dems and it's got, you know, part of the base of, of Trump in there.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Yeah.

Mike Baker 16:30 And they're all, you know, screaming to have this... Goddamn it, just release this shit. Otherwise, this is going be around like Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy and, you know...

Joe Rogan 16:38 Well, that's what's crazy. They did release more Martin Luther King document-

Mike Baker 16:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:42 ... documents.

Mike Baker 16:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:42 Which is really crazy. Like, why are you holding secrets about the murder of one of the most beloved historical figures-

Mike Baker 16:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:51 ... of all time-

Mike Baker 16:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:53 ... from 1968?

Mike Baker 16:55 Part of that is a family request.

Joe Rogan 16:55 And you just released it? Oh.

Mike Baker 16:57 Yeah, part of that's a family request. The family has asked, you know, in the past, on a number of occasions, they, they really don't want some of this... Because some of it... Look, some of it's salacious about, you know, Martin Luther K- Which doesn't take away from everything that he did, right?

Joe Rogan 17:10 Right.

Mike Baker 17:10 As a, as a leader of a cause and a movement, uh, but some of it is, you know, reportedly-

Joe Rogan 17:14 Extramarital affairs.

Mike Baker 17:16 Yes, yes.

Joe Rogan 17:16 And things along those lines.

Mike Baker 17:17 So, there's been some push to be concerned about that. But yeah, now do the Epstein files, um...

Joe Rogan 17:21 Well, they'll do it-

Mike Baker 17:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:22 ... in the same amount of time-

Mike Baker 17:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:24 ... 56 years from now. (laughs)

Mike Baker 17:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:25 Just like they did with him. It's 56 fucking years-

Mike Baker 17:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:29 ... later they release this stuff.

Mike Baker 17:30 This... And, and we're still not any closer to... I mean, yeah, again, I don't want to disappear down that rabbit hole, but we're still not any closer with Martin Luther King. Um, you know, again, not a conspiracy guy to accept today, apparently, but there's-

Joe Rogan 17:41 Well, you-

Mike Baker 17:42 ... there's shit there.

Joe Rogan 17:42 Well, you said-

Mike Baker 17:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:43 You've said multiple times-

Mike Baker 17:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:44 ... that if there's one that you think looks really bad-

Mike Baker 17:48 Yes.

Joe Rogan 17:48 ... it's that one.

Mike Baker 17:48 It's that one. But I, I... Going back to... I know I'm bouncing around here, but going back to the Epstein thing, I don't understand how they handled this so poorly, right? For Pam Bondi to, to come out and talk about the files and, "Oh my God."

Joe Rogan 17:59 Right.

Mike Baker 17:59 Just... And then like within a blink of an eye, they come out with this bullshit Sunday night memo saying there's nothing to see.How could they possibly have thought-

Joe Rogan 18:06 Do you think there's just a lack of coordination?

Mike Baker 18:08 Yeah, I do. I do.

Joe Rogan 18:09 Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. There's-

Mike Baker 18:10 I think it's a, uh, a messaging problem is always kind of a key element of the Trump Administration, whether it's this one or not. And now look, that's not a... uh, you know, I'm not knocking a lot of the policies. I like a lot of the policies that come out of this, this administration, i- this one and, and the, and the previous, the, the first administration. But I'm just saying, a hallmark of a Trump Administration is, uh, the ability to, uh, have a self-inflicted wound. You know, shoot yourself in the foot, e- because of messaging usually. Right?

Joe Rogan 18:35 Right.

Mike Baker 18:36 So I think they've, they've done it again, and I don't see how they, I don't see how they walk this back. They're trying to, I think, with this interview with Ghislaine Maxwell to say, "Look, we're trying. We're, we're talking to her."

Joe Rogan 18:46 (laughs)

Mike Baker 18:46 You know?

Joe Rogan 18:46 But how does Pam Bondi say, "We have thousands of hours of footage," and then Kash Patel says, "We don't have anything that you're looking for"?

Mike Baker 18:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:55 And then Tim Dillon said he has lunch with JD Vance, and JD Vance says that 10,000 hours is commercial pornography.

Mike Baker 19:03 (laughs) Right. Yeah, you think this freak show of Epstein wasn't, like... it didn't have hidden cameras or wasn't taped and shit? I would, I mean, come on.

Joe Rogan 19:12 100%.

Mike Baker 19:12 So-

Joe Rogan 19:12 100%.

Mike Baker 19:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:13 Well, that was the thing about that house, that house they had in New York City, which is, by the way, for sale. And-

Mike Baker 19:18 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 19:18 Yeah, nobody wants to buy it.

Mike Baker 19:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:20 Like, you wanna buy Epstein's house?

Mike Baker 19:21 Do the cameras convey, I wonder? Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:22 But this is the thing. I mean, you gotta gut the walls.

Mike Baker 19:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:25 How are you gonna know what the fuck is in there?

Mike Baker 19:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:27 Imagine you're walking around your house naked and you think that the CIA has got... or your, your own, fucking, your organization.

Mike Baker 19:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:33 The, whoever it is, Mossad-

Mike Baker 19:34 To be fair, the agency's got a lot of hours of videotape of me walking around naked.

Joe Rogan 19:37 I'm sure.

Mike Baker 19:37 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:38 But Mossad, whoever it is that was involved in this intelligence gathering, I mean, I'm just guessing.

Mike Baker 19:43 Yeah. Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 19:43 I have no idea.

Mike Baker 19:44 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:44 But there's fucking pinhole cameras all over that house.

Mike Baker 19:47 Yeah. Yeah, we, you have, you have to start-

Joe Rogan 19:48 Maybe they took them down.

Mike Baker 19:49 ... from that perception, right? Because again, they, they... if, if anything else, then you're just being naive if you think, "No, there's nothing." Again... goddamn it.

Joe Rogan 19:55 You gotta take it down to the bare beams.

Mike Baker 19:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 You gotta strip the wall board off. You gotta fucking... every baseboard, you gotta pull everything.

Mike Baker 20:04 It's like, it's like we had a-

Joe Rogan 20:05 Who fucking knows what's in that house.

Mike Baker 20:06 We had a, we had a, a situation in Moscow one time where we were building, uh... it was the new embassy, the US Embassy in Moscow, right? And (laughs) for some reason, you know, part of the deal was to allow Russian contractors to work on the construction of this.

Joe Rogan 20:21 (laughs)

Mike Baker 20:21 You know? What the fuck, you know? So... but that's a... it's a government thing, you know, and so you can imagine there's... I... like you... to your point, there's not a lot of coordination. So, you know, the Russian contractors are thinking, "Oh, this is great. We're, uh, helping to construct the US Embassy." And they know there's gonna be sensitive s- areas within there, the station, you know, for the, for the agency and, and, uh, other areas. Uh, anyway, at a certain point, they're, they're just about finished with construction and (sighs) just by ha- b- not by happenstance, I mean, there, there were efforts tried to, um, examine what the Russians were doing, right? So the security side of things, they were concerned about the fact that the Russians were working on it. You know, you had the State Department and others that were like, "No, it's a good idea, you know. It helps with diplomacy." So the security guys were doing things. They were x-raying, you know, um, parts of... materials that were coming in to... for the construction. And apparently, at one point, uh, what was going on was the Russians were, um, installing listening devices inside the rebar, right, of the, of the construction process. And apparently, at one point they... you know, one of the wires on the... on one of these, uh, uh, communications devices that was stuck in there had broken, and so they soldered it, the Russians did. They soldered it with aluminum. That showed up when they were x-raying, um, that particular large bit of a... of, you know, material that they were gonna install. And that was the, the way that they found out and they said, "What the fuck?" Then they had to tear the entire goddamn thing down. Fl- uh, I forget. I think it was two or three different floors of this embassy they had to remove, then bit by bit shipped it back to the States (laughs) to, to examine fully and, and it was just loaded with, with listening devices by the Russians, right?

Joe Rogan 21:58 (laughs)

Mike Baker 21:58 So it's gonna be the same at the, uh, uh... long story short, it's the same at Epstein's place.

Joe Rogan 22:03 100%.

Mike Baker 22:03 You gotta tear it down.

Joe Rogan 22:04 Yeah.

Mike Baker 22:05 You know?

Joe Rogan 22:05 It's a nice house too and it's like right-

Mike Baker 22:06 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:06 ... right on the park.

Mike Baker 22:07 Yeah, well.

Joe Rogan 22:08 And I was like, "Wonder why that's still for sale?"

Mike Baker 22:10 Hmm. What are they asking for it, do you think?

Joe Rogan 22:12 And then I found out it was... I think it's like 60 or 70 million.

Mike Baker 22:14 Oh. I might look at it.

Joe Rogan 22:15 Jamie can find it. It's pretty dope.

Young Jamie 22:17 It says it sold in 2021 for 51 million.

Mike Baker 22:19 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 22:20 But it's for sale now, though, right?

Young Jamie 22:22 That I didn't see.

Joe Rogan 22:23 I'm pretty sure it's for sale right now.

Mike Baker 22:24 I wonder if it gets a premium because it's Epstein's place. You know, you know, like a celebrity premium for a home?

Joe Rogan 22:30 (laughs) You'd have to be-

Mike Baker 22:30 I wonder if that's the case, you know. You get-

Joe Rogan 22:31 You'd have to be a fucking complete psycho to wanna live in that guy's house.

Mike Baker 22:36 (laughs) Yeah, same guy's gonna buy Diddy's spot. Um, um, yeah, I, I don't know what the...

Joe Rogan 22:41 Yo, what the fuck?

Mike Baker 22:42 God, but there's... so you've got, you've got the Epstein thing going on and-

Joe Rogan 22:46 Like how does that get resolved? This is the question. Like if you're the administration, you're looking at this puzzle and you're f- trying to figure out how to make this a, a PR win (laughs) .

Mike Baker 22:57 Too late for that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:58 What are you... what the fuck can you do at this point?

Mike Baker 23:00 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 23:00 Is it for sale?

Young Jamie 23:01 65 mil two years ago, it says.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Oh.

Mike Baker 23:03 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 23:04 It's not for sale right now?

Young Jamie 23:05 Not according to Zillow.

Joe Rogan 23:06 Mm.

Mike Baker 23:07 Zero bedrooms, only one bath.

Joe Rogan 23:08 Oh.

Mike Baker 23:08 That's not a very nice place-

Joe Rogan 23:10 (laughs)

Mike Baker 23:12 ... for sale. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:12 It's just one big fuck hall.

Mike Baker 23:16 Yeah. (laughs) "It's just..." Yeah, we call it the playroom and-

Joe Rogan 23:18 This is the house?

Mike Baker 23:19 ... look at that. Oh my God.

Young Jamie 23:20 Yeah.

Mike Baker 23:20 Fucking dope place.

Joe Rogan 23:20 It looks like a Saudi-

Mike Baker 23:21 What is it?

Joe Rogan 23:22 65 million bucks in Manhattan.

Mike Baker 23:25 What the hell?

Joe Rogan 23:25 The wild thing is though it's like right on the street. Like anybody can come to your door and just knock on your door, like walking by.

Mike Baker 23:31 Yeah. Prince Andrew.

Joe Rogan 23:32 Like it's weird, living there is weird.

Mike Baker 23:33 Yeah. Look at (laughs) look at that.

Joe Rogan 23:35 I'm just thinking like... meanwhile, no one can explain where he got the money, no one can explain why he got so rich.

Mike Baker 23:40 Ah, freak show.

Joe Rogan 23:41 You know, and Eric Weinstein, who is a... like a legit financial guy said he talked to him, he had a meeting with him once. He's like, "It was really clear that he's a construct."

Mike Baker 23:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:50 He's like, "He doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't know anything."

Mike Baker 23:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:53 That's not for sale right now?

Young Jamie 23:54 I didn't say it was.

Mike Baker 23:55 Oh.

Young Jamie 23:55 It's, it's listed on Zillow, but not for sale, it's like...... well, everything's still on Zillow, kinda.

Joe Rogan 24:00 Oh.

Mike Baker 24:00 Mm.

Joe Rogan 24:01 Like it was for sale?

Young Jamie 24:02 Yeah, you can look it up and see-

Mike Baker 24:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:03 Maybe there's another service that's ... 'Cause sometimes Zillow doesn't have all the stuff, 'cause someone w- I know was looking at it.

Mike Baker 24:09 Yeah, maybe it's on cheap old houses.

Joe Rogan 24:11 (laughs)

Mike Baker 24:11 That's a good site. Yeah, uh-

Young Jamie 24:13 It's a bargain.

Mike Baker 24:15 (laughs) It's a fixer-upper, though. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:17 But like, you'd have to go through that house. You'd have to hire, like-

Mike Baker 24:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:20 ... the top-of-the-food-chain security experts to go ... And they would probably recommend you take that house apart.

Mike Baker 24:26 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you'd- you'd ... You could do a, uh, uh, it's called a, a sweep of the thing and, and, you know ... But that's not gonna guarantee, right?

Joe Rogan 24:35 No.

Mike Baker 24:35 I- you really have to pull the walls down and, and look, because I, I ... Again, maybe I'm wrong, just never say never, but I can't imagine that, that, that, uh, uh, psycho like, like Epstein, you know, wasn't enjoying videoing, you know, some of the activity that was going on, so-

Joe Rogan 24:52 For sure.

Mike Baker 24:53 Yeah. Anyway.

Joe Rogan 24:53 So, what do you think, from your perspective, what do you think that was all about? Who do you think was involved in that? Do you think it was the Mossad? Do you think it was-

Mike Baker 25:04 (sighs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:04 ... some rogue intelligence agency in America? Was it a coordinated effort?

Mike Baker 25:09 You know what, I, uh, I know there's, you know, there's a lot of talk about, you know, did he have some sort of intel connection, right?

Joe Rogan 25:15 Right.

Mike Baker 25:16 Uh, uh, that, uh ... You know, from my perspective, it's complete speculation, but I will say, like, from an operational perspective, I, I have no idea. Was it Mossad, was it anybody? Who knows?

Joe Rogan 25:24 Right.

Mike Baker 25:25 But from an operational perspective, if you see a guy like this who's super connected and is ... And, you know, like, all the way back to, what, 2008, was, like, his first trial, right? So he's had a long history of this, these problems. But if you know that he's kind of engaged in a variety of things, um ... As an example, if I'm the, if I'm Chinese intel, right? And I, I just read the goddamn entertainment news and, you know, there's these rumors and allegations of, you know, high-level people flying off to his island, I'm gonna think that's interesting. Because potentially, if I could get an access to source there, if I can get somebody, right, inside that operation, whether it's Ghislaine Maxwell or whether it's Epstein himself, whether it's somebody who's just on the outskirts of it, maybe I'll, I'll start picking up some pretty interesting leverageable information on people that maybe I want to influence, right?

Joe Rogan 26:15 And it's so funny to me that it's always comes down to, like, carnal needs.

Mike Baker 26:20 Mm.

Joe Rogan 26:21 And carnal desires.

Mike Baker 26:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:23 It's always sex.

Mike Baker 26:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:25 Because these guys, when you get to, like, this Bill Gates level and Bill Clinton level, you can't just go pick up gals at the bar.

Mike Baker 26:33 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:33 You know what I mean?

Mike Baker 26:33 It's a little tough, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:35 So if you're a super famous super freak and, you know, you'll, you'll like chasing skirts, but, you know, you can't do it, like, what do you do?

Mike Baker 26:43 Well, you do what he did, right? Which is you get y- you know, somebody to procure for you, which apparently was primarily Maxwell's job.

Joe Rogan 26:49 Yeah.

Mike Baker 26:49 And she's out there and, and, you know, she was described, uh, uh, you know, usually as his girlfriend, but she was clearly operating as his pimp or whatever the female version of a pimp is. And-

Joe Rogan 26:58 Oh, p- yeah, curator.

Mike Baker 27:00 Curator, (laughs) yeah, it's a curator.

Joe Rogan 27:01 Yeah.

Mike Baker 27:02 And so, he's, uh ... You know, she's out there doing that, but look, a- again, you know, I, I, I can't speak to, you know, uh, you know, the, the rumors about him working for one intel agency or another. But I will say, if I'm working for an intel agency and I see something like that, uh, yeah, I might find that of interest, right?

Joe Rogan 27:20 Oh, for sure.

Mike Baker 27:20 And then I would, I would definitely go after somebody to see what's going on, just ... I- if for no other reason than, you know, again, maybe it's a, it's a opportunity there, you know, like-

Joe Rogan 27:29 Well, it's the easiest connect-the-dots puzzle-

Mike Baker 27:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:30 ... of all time.

Mike Baker 27:31 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:32 You got rich powerful people and hot chicks and probably drugs-

Mike Baker 27:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:35 ... and cameras. Jeez.

Mike Baker 27:36 Yeah. And, and I tell you, the Russians love nothing better than ... You know, the, the truth, uh ... (sighs) The reality is it, in terms of recruiting an asset, recruiting an asset by using blackmail is, is, is tough, right? You gotta, you gotta ... That window starts closing immediately, right? In terms of their operational usefulness, right? Because there, there's a lot of, there's a lot of issues there, right? You're, you're, you're, you're blackmailing somebody for their cooperation. At some point, that's gonna go south on ya, right? Uh, it's not like you've recruited somebody for ideological reasons, right? Or-

Joe Rogan 28:10 Right.

Mike Baker 28:10 ... even something as, as straightforward as, like, they need the money because their kid's sick, or whatever it may be. So blackmail's a ... But having said that, look, the, the, the Russians in particular love that, right? Um, and, um, you know, Ch- Chinese intel, they'll do whatever works f- from their perspective. Um, you know, the agency ... Again, people are gonna say, "That's bullshit." The agency tries ... They, they, they, they ... The blackmail is never really ever on the table as an option, because it always leads to a problem. Uh, uh, and, and sometimes those problems can be very, very bad in terms of your-

Joe Rogan 28:44 In, uh, in what way? Uh, what do you mean about this?

Mike Baker 28:45 Well, you know the asset will turn on you, right? And the next thing you know, um, you know, you've got a, uh, an agent working now, a double agent working for the other side, right? Because they're just, they're so fucked over by the fact that they've been blackmailed and at some point, they lose their shit and they decide to, to roll for the other side they didn't work against.

Joe Rogan 29:02 But can't you, like, constantly be monitoring them-

Mike Baker 29:04 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 29:04 ... and looking at their phone and all?

Mike Baker 29:05 There's only so much ... No, not really. There's only so much you can do, right? In terms of, um, maintaining ... Particularly with a, uh, with a, with a, uh, a hard target. Particularly with a, uh, an asset who's in a difficult or challenging environment, you know, for instance, and you've got limited access to them, whatever it may be. So you're really relying on, on clandestine communications, you don't have a lot of face-to-face meetings. Um, and at some point, you never know when things are heading south, right? And then the next thing you know ... Look, you know, that ... So, the- it's, that's a, that's the operational reason for trying to avoid blackmail, right? Um, has it ever been done? Well, sure, yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it hasn't been done.

Joe Rogan 29:39 Of course.

Mike Baker 29:40 But some services go to it much quicker than others do. Yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 29:44 And which services are those?

Mike Baker 29:45 And I would ... Well, again, the Russians, you know, are, are primary users of, of something like that. They don't do-

Joe Rogan 29:49 The Israelis?

Mike Baker 29:49 'Cause they, they've got a shotgun approach. Yeah. Israelis have, have been known to do that in the honeypot operations that they'll do-

Joe Rogan 29:54 Yeah.

Mike Baker 29:54 ... and the, and other things. But the Russians throw a lot of shit at the wall and see what sticks, right? It's a very much a, uh, a shotgun approach, right? And ...... you know, honestly, sometimes, you know, that c- that can work, right?

Joe Rogan 30:05 Wasn't that kind of, if you thought about this island, if you're bringing award-winning scientists, f- like, pr- famous people, politicians, world leaders all to one place, you're basically throwing-

Mike Baker 30:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:18 ... as much shit against the wall as you can.

Mike Baker 30:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:20 And then you have all this stuff on all these different people and they know it. And so then you just kind of like... Wasn't there, like, some CEO that had to step down because he wound up giving Epstein... It was found out that he gave Epstein, like, $150 million that they couldn't explain why?

Mike Baker 30:35 Wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:36 Wasn't that- wasn't that the case, Jamie?

Young Jamie 30:37 That's right.

Joe Rogan 30:38 So it's one of those things where there's obviously value in having all these people on your side.

Mike Baker 30:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:45 But when you do get all this information on these people, like, what are they trying to accomplish with it? This is the question. Are they trying to get support for... Uh.

Mike Baker 30:55 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:55 "Apollo CEO to step down after firm finds more payments to Jeffrey Epstein: $158 million." He paid the convicted sex offender $158 million. (laughs)

Mike Baker 31:05 What does it... If you can... Can you scroll down a little bit, Jamie? Uh...

Joe Rogan 31:10 Yeah. "His plan to step down as chief: 'I- I have advised the Apollo board that I will retire as CEO before my seventh bir- seventieth birthday in July.' Remain as chairman." Oh, he's gonna remain as a chairman. Uh.

Mike Baker 31:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:22 "New York Times detailed-"

Mike Baker 31:24 (laughs) That sucks.

Joe Rogan 31:24 "... at least $75 million-"

Young Jamie 31:26 I'm really getting ahead.

Joe Rogan 31:26 "... in payments and found that Mr. Black had paid Epstein $158 million in a five-year period ending in 2007- '17. He also lent Mr. Epstein more than $30 million, only $10 million of which was paid back." (laughs)

Mike Baker 31:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:39 So that's a guy that they got something on him.

Mike Baker 31:41 I love this. He... (laughs) Leon, Leon viewed, um, Epstein as a confirmed bachelor with eclectic tastes.

Joe Rogan 31:49 Hmm.

Mike Baker 31:49 And this was after his 2008 guilty plea.

Joe Rogan 31:51 Yeah.

Mike Baker 31:52 Wow. Um.

Joe Rogan 31:55 Jesus Christ.

Mike Baker 31:55 Yeah. Mr. Epstein's advice was worth, look at that, was worth perhaps two billion in tax savings to Mr. Black, according to the report.

Joe Rogan 32:02 Right.

Mike Baker 32:03 What the fuck?

Joe Rogan 32:03 But this is, again, this is what-

Mike Baker 32:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:05 ... Weinstein said. Th- Eric-

Mike Baker 32:07 So...

Joe Rogan 32:07 ... said that this, like, this guy is not... He's not good. He doesn't know-

Mike Baker 32:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:11 ... what he's talking about.

Mike Baker 32:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:12 Like, he wa- wasn't a good financial advisor.

Mike Baker 32:15 Yeah. I mean, I think part of it is you could say, okay, why was he collecting people around him? Wh- why was he doing... I mean, uh, was, was he keeping a file? Right? You still have to figure out what that file looks like. Um, you know, part of it could've been initially self-preservation. Right? I mean, he's engaged in all sorts of activity. He gets a few people into it. Then suddenly, you know, he doesn't look so bad, right? And he's kind of protecting himself because now I'm surrounded by people who also have to keep that secret. Right? So... But then, but then the question becomes, you know, is... At what point is he or somebody in this little s- tight circle, they're... are they approached, right-

Joe Rogan 32:47 Yeah.

Mike Baker 32:47 ... by- by anybody who's interested in some of these folks? But we don't know because we don't know who the fuck's in these files.

Joe Rogan 32:52 Right.

Mike Baker 32:52 Right? So if-

Joe Rogan 32:53 Or if the files even exist.

Mike Baker 32:55 If the files even exist, and apparently, you know, there's nothing (laughs) in there, according to Bam Bondi.

Joe Rogan 32:59 And Kash Patel. The whole thing's nuts.

Mike Baker 33:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:02 And then, you know, the- they have Bongiorno and Kash Patel saying he definitely killed himself. Like, what?

Mike Baker 33:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:09 What? Okay. This just... The level of convenience. It's so convenient that the guards were asleep, so convenient that the cameras didn't work, so convenient that years later you have a recording of the outside of the cell but a minute is missing from it.

Young Jamie 33:25 Yeah, three minutes.

Mike Baker 33:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:26 Three minutes?

Young Jamie 33:27 Yeah. They found out it was, like, almost three minutes was missing.

Mike Baker 33:29 Yeah.

Young Jamie 33:29 Two minutes, like, 53 seconds.

Mike Baker 33:30 It's like the missing Watergate tape.

Joe Rogan 33:32 Oh, I thought it was just one minute.

Young Jamie 33:32 It started... It started off as a minute and then people-

Mike Baker 33:35 Yeah.

Young Jamie 33:35 ... kept looking in the metadata, and metadata they're like, "Okay, it was saved this many times," and yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Oh my God.

Young Jamie 33:39 It was actually up to three minutes missing.

Mike Baker 33:41 God. Okay. And-

Joe Rogan 33:42 That's plenty of time to kill somebody.

Young Jamie 33:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:44 Three minutes is more than enough time.

Mike Baker 33:45 Oh, three minutes you could get a whole bunch of people killed by then.

Young Jamie 33:48 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:48 You saw that guy that was his cellmate too, right?

Mike Baker 33:51 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. (laughs) Sorry. Just... Sorry.

Joe Rogan 33:53 Guy is a fucking-

Mike Baker 33:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:54 ... gigantic human being.

Mike Baker 33:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:56 A huge guy who was a mass murderer-

Mike Baker 33:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:59 ... who had killed multiple people, a bad cop who was built like a brick fucking shithouse.

Mike Baker 34:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:04 The kind of guy that you could really easily get to strangle somebody.

Mike Baker 34:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:08 It would take him... I could kill him in 30 seconds.

Mike Baker 34:11 Yeah. Nope.

Joe Rogan 34:11 How's this fucking giant dude could do it easy?

Young Jamie 34:14 Metadata.

Joe Rogan 34:14 Metadata from raw Epstein... No thanks.

Young Jamie 34:17 Nope.

Joe Rogan 34:17 "Metadata from raw Epstein prison video shows approximately 2 minutes and 53 seconds were removed from one of the two stitched together clips."

Mike Baker 34:25 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:26 "The cut starts off at the missing minute."

Mike Baker 34:29 Wow.

Young Jamie 34:30 Weird.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Yeah. Shocker.

Mike Baker 34:32 Yeah. Yeah. So a guy like that decides, yeah, he's gonna off himself. I... And again-

Joe Rogan 34:37 But here's the thing.

Mike Baker 34:37 ... you know.

Joe Rogan 34:37 It's like these guys that are all involved in this are still... They've been around for a long time and they have this mentality that existed before the internet, where you could just kind of put stuff-

Mike Baker 34:48 True.

Joe Rogan 34:48 ... out there-

Mike Baker 34:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:49 ... and you wouldn't have all these psycho sleuths out there that are gonna go over everything with a fine-tooth comb.

Mike Baker 34:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:54 Especially guys who are tech wizards who can look at the metadata-

Mike Baker 34:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:59 ... and they can figure this kind of stuff out.

Mike Baker 35:01 Well, shit died a lot quicker, you're right. So something would happen... And look, we- we still have ADHD, right? Collectively as a nation, right? I mean, things move on and I think maybe that's what they're... You know. And some people are saying, "Look, they've called a recess on Capitol Hill because they figure by the time they come back in September, everybody will have moved on from this." Right?

Joe Rogan 35:17 Yeah.

Mike Baker 35:17 I think they're wrong. I don't, I don't think this is... This... Again, this, this feels like and- and just looks like that one of those handful of conspiracies, again you go to JFK or whomever, that's just gonna hang around.

Joe Rogan 35:29 This is a line in the sand.

Mike Baker 35:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:30 This one's a line in the sand.

Mike Baker 35:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:32 Because this is one where th- there's a lot of stuff about... You know, when we thought Trump was gonna come in and that a lot of things were gonna be resolved.

Mike Baker 35:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:41 We're gonna drain the swamp, we're gonna figure everything out. And when you have this one hardcore line in the sand that everybody been talking about forever, and then they're trying to gaslight you on that...

Mike Baker 35:52 Well, you would have thought that-

Joe Rogan 35:53 Is that your phone?

Mike Baker 35:54 ... I did. Yeah, I hope not. Oh.

Joe Rogan 35:56 What is it?

Mike Baker 35:56 It's my wife. Should I answer?

Joe Rogan 35:58 It's on silent, buddy.

Mike Baker 35:58 Um, yeah. It's on... You know, it was on silent, but it still goes. How does that happen? It literally-

Joe Rogan 36:03 The government?

Mike Baker 36:04 ... is on silent. And-

Joe Rogan 36:05 Are you sure?

Mike Baker 36:05 Yeah. No, I'm positive, 'cause it's, it's got a little thing up top that says silent. And, uh, and it still goes.

Joe Rogan 36:10 Your phone's compromised.

Mike Baker 36:11 My phone is compromised.

Joe Rogan 36:11 CIA doesn't trust you. You're friends with me.

Mike Baker 36:13 Yeah. Well, (laughs) come on.

Joe Rogan 36:14 They don't trust you anymore.

Mike Baker 36:15 They did call me this morning, "What are you gonna talk about?"

Joe Rogan 36:17 (laughs)

Mike Baker 36:18 I said, (laughs) "I don't know."

Joe Rogan 36:19 Do they ever talk to you about that?

Guest 36:21 Uh-

Joe Rogan 36:21 Do they, do they ever have questions about your appearances here?

Mike Baker 36:23 No, no. In fact, and I'm, I'm, I'm in the building on occasion and we're actually working on a show that's gonna be a great, it's gonna be a great, uh, TV show based on this amazing museum that's inside agency headquarters. Uh, but nobody ever, nobody ever says that they... You know, they don't... We have a really nice relationship. They don't tell me what to say. If I go on TV to talk about something, they just like... You know, they, they... It's not like they're gonna call up and say, "Well, here's our, here's our view on this," right?

Joe Rogan 36:47 They trust you.

Mike Baker 36:48 Yeah, they trust me. I'm not gonna open my yap and talk sources and methods, and at the same time, you know, I'm just gonna try to just talk from an operational perspective. But yeah, so that was my wife. Uh, which reminds me, it's my boy Mugsy's birthday today.

Joe Rogan 37:02 Happy birthday, Mugsy.

Mike Baker 37:03 Yeah, thank you very much.

Joe Rogan 37:05 Like, with a, with a thing like this, what is the general feeling about people that you talk to that are still in the agency, or people that are still involved in the government? Like, how are they feeling about this? 'Cause like, the general public is outraged, right?

Mike Baker 37:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:18 Do the people inside, are they frustrated, like people that wanted this stuff to expose, to be exposed?

Mike Baker 37:24 Yeah, you know, it's funny because with the agency, it's not like the bureau. The agency, uh, I think most people honestly don't really probably give a shit about the Epstein files. They're more, they're more concerned now about this release from Tulsi Gabbard and the talk about, you know, manipulating intelligence, you know, for the 2016 election-

Joe Rogan 37:43 Right.

Mike Baker 37:44 ... and Russian collusion and all of that. That speaks more to the agency than, than the Epstein files does, just from a, you know, whose responsibility is whose, right? This whole Epstein thing is a DOJ, FBI issue. Um, I think if they're concerned about it, it's because of how it erodes trust in organizations, institutions, right? And, and that's happened a, uh, a lot. So, you know, I, it... There's a lot of, a lot of good people. I know, again, every time I talk about the agency, people are like, "Fuck you, you're such a shill." But there's a lot of good people doing very difficult work for the agency, right?

Joe Rogan 38:16 I believe that. I believe that.

Mike Baker 38:18 And, and so, you know, I think, if anything, they, they take it personally when people think, "Oh, fuck the CIA. You gotta, you gotta burn it down and start over again." You know, like they said with the FBI as well.

Joe Rogan 38:28 I've talked about that many times.

Mike Baker 38:29 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:29 Like, "You don't know what the fuck is going on in the world. The world is filled with chaos."

Mike Baker 38:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:33 Like, you need people that are paying attention to that shit, and they should be on your side.

Mike Baker 38:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:36 They should be on the side of the American people, paying attention to threats. I- if you think that that's, that not paying attention at all is gonna do you any good when there's all these countries out there that are fucking plotting constantly, you're crazy.

Mike Baker 38:49 Yeah, no.

Joe Rogan 38:49 You c- this is a... You're living in a utopia. You're living in a fake world. The real world is filled with madness.

Mike Baker 38:55 Yeah, it is.

Joe Rogan 38:56 You gotta have people paying attention to it.

Mike Baker 38:57 Yeah. And I think... So I think that, you know, to answer that, that question, I think they're more, they're more focused on or interested in or, you know, looking at this issue of, you know... And, and it's, it's surfaced again, right at the same time as the Epstein files, right? Now, it's like sucking all the oxygen out of the room for the past couple of days. Tulsi Gabbard comes out and says, "I'm releasing these documents." She releases these documents. It's-

Joe Rogan 39:19 What do you think about all that? Like, so this is the accusation. They're, they're, they're throwing around the word treason.

Mike Baker 39:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:26 They're saying that Obama knew that Russia did not meddle in the election, did not have any impact in the election, but yet promoted this idea. And then there's been some incredible clips of all these different news reporters, CNN and MSNBC just saying over and over and over again, "Clear evidence of Russian collusion." And-

Mike Baker 39:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:47 And-

Mike Baker 39:47 And you had Hillary Clinton saying, you know, is, is, uh, you know, an air of illegitimacy around Trump's, you know, victory-

Joe Rogan 39:52 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 39:52 ... you know, from 2016, because of this. I mean, she was very clear about it, um, and-

Joe Rogan 39:57 But they're also saying-

Mike Baker 39:57 ... as were many others, right?

Joe Rogan 39:58 ... the noose is tightening on Trump.

Mike Baker 40:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:00 It's all gonna come out. He's an agent of Russia.

Mike Baker 40:03 Yeah, Adam Schiff coming out on camera numerous times saying, "You know, I can't tell you what I've seen, but I've seen things. There's a lot more than circumstantial evidence about this collusion." So yeah, they... But again, the, it's, it's much more comp- It's always the same thing. It's much more complex than what folks tend to hear just in like a two and a half or three-minute news segment, right? So the Democrats want you to think there's nothing to see here in these documents. How could you possibly spend time doing this? You're just trying to distract from the, the Epstein files. Um, and the Republicans are saying Obama committed treason, right? The reality is, as it oftentimes is, is somewhere in that middle, right? There, there, there's a lot of conflating of, of issues here. So, nobody is questioning, neither Republicans or Democrats, nobody's questioning that the Russians meddled in the election, just like they did in the previous one, just like they did in this last one, just like... There always... They've been meddling since World War II, right? Since the end of the, of World War II. They've, they've always had an interest in influencing US politics.

Joe Rogan 41:08 Now, when you say meddle, do you mean like social media bots? Do you mean like-

Mike Baker 41:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:14 ... influencing politicians? Like, what do you mean by meddle?

Mike Baker 41:16 Yeah, well, I mean, you know, in the early days, what were they doing? In the early days, they would, uh, pay off trade union representatives, right? To, to push a certain line, to, you know, to push for a softer tone, much like the Chinese do now, push for a softer tone against the Soviet Union, right? Or, um, in, in, during World War II, to push for isolationism, keep the US out of the war, right? Before the Nazis turned on the Soviet Union and then they tended to need us. Um, or they would pay journalists to write articles pushing a particular point of view. Um, and so there were those things. Now, social media meddling is a lot easier, right? It's a lot cheaper.

Joe Rogan 41:55 For sure, they do that.

Mike Baker 41:56 Yeah, for sure they do that, and-

Joe Rogan 41:58 And for sure they did that in 2016.

Mike Baker 42:00 Yeah, absolutely. And, and nobody's questioning that, right? What's happening is that...... the, eh, once again, there's a bit of a messaging problem from the Trump administration. Trump administration, at the end of the day, is saying, (laughs) "What was bullshit was this Russia collusion angle," right? Was the idea that, you know, (stammers) this is complicated to, to explain, and I'm not doing a very good job of it, but they're saying, "Yes, there was meddling, but you pushed a story..." Meaning Brennan and Comey and, you know, all the others that were involved in this, and now going up to the top with Obama, saying, "You took what was, um, uh, a, uh, intel community assessment, um, an ICA is, uh, 'cause everything has an acronym, um, that said there was no indication of, of, uh, of, uh, Russian efforts to push or influence in a particular direction, the election, right? And most of that an- initial reporting was on, um, electure- uh, election infrastructure. So, there was a, a fairly, you know, significant bit there that said, "The Russians di- weren't able to hack into election machines and actually alter vote counts," right? So, they said, "We have seen no evidence of that," right? And (sighs) so you could argue that, in part, the, the, the Trump administration is having a hard time explaining, much like I am, that the problem here wasn't that there was, th- th- anybody saying there's no meddling. There's meddling. They're just saying that you, at a certain point, around about December 9th I think it was, you had a meeting where Obama was sitting in there with Comey and Andrew McCabe and, and a variety of others, and the president himself requested a different intelligence community assessment, which is a little unusual for a president to say, "I'd like you to do a, an ICA on a particular thing," which is what he did.

Joe Rogan 43:51 Could you elaborate on that? Like, wha- so, they were telling him what?

Mike Baker 43:54 Well, they were, they were telling him, "We don't see, um, that Russian meddling impacted the election," basically. The Dems are saying, "Well, that's just about the electronic infrastructure, about the voting machines," right? In reality, the ICA was also s- uh, th- uh, that, that, that instruction, the PDB, the President's Daily Brief and, and the, the, the, the writing that had been done, the analysis that had been done up to that point was saying, uh, "We haven't seen anything that the Russian meddling influenced the outcome of the election." Well, then, shortly, and then they, they squashed that particular piece, right? They said, "Let's, let's shelve that," and that's what a lot of the emails that Tulsi Gabbard, um, released show, right? They said, like, th- all this agonizing. It's amazing to me that shit gets done in the government when you read these emails going back and forth between James Clapper at the DNI and, and other places.

Joe Rogan 44:42 Yeah, you sent me some of that stuff-

Mike Baker 44:43 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 44:44 ... to go through.

Mike Baker 44:44 Yeah, the analysts and others, and they're all saying, "Okay, well, well, what kind of tone do we give it? What do we say about this?" And you can also see in there that they're saying, um, "We don't think the Steele dossier is credible." You know, the two senior Russian analysts, right, at the agency were telling John Brennan at the time, "You, if you put the dossier in there as a piece of information into this assessment, you're compromising the credibility of the whole thing because we don't believe it," right? And this is December, right? And Brennan instructed, and it's in writing, instructed them to go ahead and do it, right? Because it basically, he was, he liked the narrative, right? Of the Steele dossier.

Joe Rogan 45:23 Right.

Mike Baker 45:24 And so he chose that over, um, the analytical, um, process, right? Over the discipline that you need to corroborate information that's going to go to a high-level, um, intel assessment. So, uh, you know, if anybody's in, in the crosshairs right now, it's probably John Brennan, right? In terms of, because he went up on, on Capitol Hill at some point and, and, and said that, you know, the Steele dossier didn't form an important point of, or, you know, wasn't in the, the document, wasn't in the ICA. The ICA is now out there and, and sure enough, it was not only in the annex, it was in the body of the report, which gives it much more credibility. So, yeah, so he, uh, you know, I, I'm not a lawyer but, uh, you know, I think he should be concerned a little bit about where that might go. But Obama reportedly, and it's in email traffic, you know, requested, right, a different ICA. And so shortly thereafter, they produced a report-

Joe Rogan 46:24 How does he say it?

Mike Baker 46:26 Uh, I forget what the exact wording, I'm not gonna get into-

Joe Rogan 46:27 'Cause that's the crazy thing.

Mike Baker 46:28 Yeah, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:28 If you have a bunch of experts-

Mike Baker 46:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:30 ... that give you an assessment, "This are the facts-"

Mike Baker 46:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:32 "... this is how it went down," you're like, "I don't like those facts."

Mike Baker 46:36 Well, I don't think he, I don't think he said-

Joe Rogan 46:37 "I want a different version of it."

Mike Baker 46:37 ... "I don't like the facts," and that's where this is gonna be a, a problem. Anybody who thinks Obama's gonna go to prison for treasonous conspiracy, I think, again, much like Pam Bondi, you know, with the, the, her treating of the Epstein files which was ridiculous, uh, Tulsi Gabbard's gotten out over her skis. Treasonous conspiracy, uh, i- i- it was Obama-

Joe Rogan 46:51 Is that what she said?

Mike Baker 46:52 That's what she said. (stammers) It's not gonna happen. Anybody who thinks Obama's going to, forget about it, you know? It'll be, you'll be lucky if you get any consequences of anything out of this. Again, I'm, I'm very cynical about where investigations go.

Joe Rogan 47:03 Well, isn't this also-

Mike Baker 47:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:04 ... based on the Supreme Court's justification of everything that Trump did-

Mike Baker 47:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:08 ... while he was in office-

Mike Baker 47:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:09 ... to say you can't try him for-

Mike Baker 47:11 Immunity.

Joe Rogan 47:11 ... things they do when they're off, yeah.

Mike Baker 47:12 Yeah, immunity for, you know, for acting, you know, uh, under the authority as a president, um, but, so, and it's also very nuanced, right? He can sit in there, he's perfectly got the right to sit in the meeting and say, "Okay, well, I tell you what, let's, let's sit on this," right? And James Clapper and the others agree, "Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna take this document and we're gonna set it aside, that we all worked on, now we wanna restructure it focused on, you know, the outcome of the election, and the Russian meddling, and where this went, and how they..." So it was, he can do that, right? And it's nuanced and he can... And, and never get in trouble because, yeah, fine, you've got the right to do that. I mean, it's not, it's not illegal by any means. But there is no doubt in my mind that there was a desire to, um, to drive this thing in a certain direction, right? And so, there is no doubt in my mind that-... A, th- first of all, using the Steele dossier in there was, it was just horse shit, right? Because that, that thing, th- th- there hasn't been any allegation in that Steele dossier that's, that's been verifiable, and they knew that, right? So, so they went and they ... Remember, they used that Steele dossier in part to then go to FISA courts and, and get warrants, right? So that's another issue that I think from a legal perspective, again, not a lawyer, but I think y- some people should be probably concerned about how they represented that information knowing, right? Based on s- kind of what we're seeing from the, the, the document releases from Tulsi Gabbard. But again, you can see by virtue of how difficult I'm, I'm, I'm trying to explain this, it's much more complex, right, than just them bad, these guys good, these guys good, these guys bad, right? It's, there is layers here that I think need to be examined, and I think that, um, at the end of the day, you're not really going to get ... much like every fucking everything else that happens in DC, you're not gonna get a lot of satisfaction on this one. But I do think f- I'm convinced that, yeah, they drove this narrative. Shortly after, into January, when they released the new ICA, then suddenly, leaks to the press and that's when the Russia collusion story happened, right?

Joe Rogan 49:20 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 49:21 And that's the, you know, that's the, that's the thing that they should be focused on, right? They're, uh, they're losing, they're losing the, the message because they're, they're throwing shit out there. There's a lot of detail, and people get bored, and, you know?

Joe Rogan 49:35 (laughs)

Mike Baker 49:35 So, I think that's, that's a problem they're gonna have here trying to push this thing forward, and I do think also that Tulsi Gabbard should've been a little bit more circumspect in the way she explained this, right, and how she described the actions, 'cause I think there were some people who are culpable in terms of going after this narrative and pushing this Russia collusion story that then wasted a couple of years and, you know, God knows how much money on investigations and impeachment hearings and all the rest of it. Um, but then-

Joe Rogan 50:03 Why do you think she chose to frame it that way? Do you think she was instructed to do that or she was guided to do that or encouraged to do that?

Mike Baker 50:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:10 'Cause if, if-

Mike Baker 50:11 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 50:12 ... if it d- if it's not warranted, if you don't believe it's warranted based on the evidence that you've looked at-

Mike Baker 50:16 No.

Joe Rogan 50:16 Like, she's the Director of National Intelligence.

Mike Baker 50:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:20 How does-

Mike Baker 50:21 Well, I think, I think she's ... Part of it is the realization that looks ... I mean, sh- you, you put that information out there, I think it would've been more, mm, appropriate if she'd released all the documentation, said, "Here's ..." And, and lay out in a very good, like almost like a PowerPoint presentation for the, you know, make it very simple for the press, 'cause the press isn't inclined to pursue this because the press were complicit, right?

Joe Rogan 50:40 Right.

Mike Baker 50:41 So you're trying to say, "This is what these people did and you helped them."

Joe Rogan 50:45 Right.

Mike Baker 50:45 Now, what we want is for you," meaning the media, "to uncover all of this and report on it." They're not gonna ... they're fucking not gonna ... they were winning awards, journalistic awards for their coverage of the Russia collusion story.

Joe Rogan 50:56 Right.

Mike Baker 50:56 So the idea that they're gonna somehow now say, "Yeah, I don't know, that was a problem," uh, so I think they should've, uh, maybe just made this more factual-based, stayed away from the h- you know, the sort of the hyperbolic statements about treason and all the rest of it, and then, you know, tried to explain it to the American public in a way that they can digest a little bit better, right? But when you throw out things like treasonous conspiracy, once again, much like with the Epstein thing, you're, you're creating this, this kind of howling mob that's gonna expect something.

Joe Rogan 51:24 Mm-hmm.

Mike Baker 51:24 And, and I just don't know that they're gonna get it, but ...

Joe Rogan 51:26 Right. So do you think that it's possible that she was encouraged to do this because this kind of takes away some of the heat off of the Epstein thing?

Mike Baker 51:36 I'm sure there was a thought process in there somewhere, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:38 Possibly.

Mike Baker 51:39 Yeah, I think possibly, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:39 I mean, it's a reasonable assumption.

Mike Baker 51:41 It's a ... Look, it's an important issue, right? If you have the intel community, uh, or you have, you know, the, the White House, um, deciding to themselves, "Look, we know this, this information is kind of bullshit, but it certainly serves a narrative, which is we wanna de-legitimized the new president that's coming in because we, we, we can't stand him," um, then that's a really, really serious problem that needs to be examined, you know?

Joe Rogan 52:05 It's also so short-sided because do you not know that that information is eventually gonna come out and that's gonna compromise the confidence that people have in a- anything that the intelligence agencies put forth after that?

Mike Baker 52:19 Yeah. Well, I think a lot of, uh, you know ... Part of what was going on was the expectation that Hillary Clinton was gonna win, right? So, like with the Steele dossier, try to, you know, l- dig up leverageable information or dirt on, on Trump, you know, I think they were all under the assumption, "Well, Hillary Clinton's gonna win. Doesn't really matter what we do right now-"

Joe Rogan 52:37 Hmm.

Mike Baker 52:37 "... 'cause she's gonna cover for us," right?

Joe Rogan 52:39 Right.

Mike Baker 52:39 And, you know, I don't think they ever expected Trump to win. So, you know, then suddenly they've gotta shift course a little bit and think, "Okay, all right, well, now that, that didn't work. Now what? Well, let's, let's say that, and we've got this document over here talking about Russian meddling. Hmm, you know, is it, is it, is it that much of a push to kind of say that, you know, that we, we believe there might've been collusion?" And the media ran with it, right? They didn't have to do much.

Joe Rogan 53:01 They ran with it for three years.

Mike Baker 53:02 For three years, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:03 Three years hardcore-

Mike Baker 53:04 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:04 ... all the time, every time they talked about Trump.

Mike Baker 53:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:07 Which is crazy. Re- regardless of how you feel about Trump, if you're the biggest Trump hater in the world, I understand, but understand this, that that is dangerous. It's dangerous to have the media in lockstep-

Mike Baker 53:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:20 ... with the government who's saying something that's not true.

Mike Baker 53:23 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and they, and they, and they scream about, you know, threats to democracy all the time. Let's just be a little bit more self-aware, realize, you know, what that looked like, right? You can't ... you know, the, people were just bullshitting about evidence that they had or that they saw, right? They kept talking about it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:36 Well, the Democrats saying anything's a threat to democracy-

Mike Baker 53:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:39 ... is wild when they haven't had a primary since 2012. That's wild.

Mike Baker 53:44 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:44 That's really wild. I mean, they, they kicked Bernie out. They made sure RFK Jr. wasn't in, and then when it came time for Kamala to run, no primary at all. They just put her in position.

Mike Baker 53:57 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:58 That's wild.

Mike Baker 53:59 Yeah, they didn't know what else to do, and, and, and ... By the way (laughs) , there's so much going on right now. Um, today, speaking of Kamala and, and now, now we're gonna speak about Biden, but today, uh-... was his name, the chief of staff, uh, the former chief of staff for Biden, I think he was only there for a couple of years, uh, Ron Klain was up on Capitol Hill to talk because they're holding these interviews up on Capitol Hill to try to figure out what the hell was going on, right? What, at what point did people decide they're gonna cover up the mental condition of Joe Biden? And that's another ... Look, I mean, uh, yeah-

Joe Rogan 54:33 And then they're all pleading the Fifth?

Mike Baker 54:34 They're all pleading the Fifth. Kevin O'Connor, his, uh, the White House doctor, um, plead the Fifth. Um, senior advisor to Jill Biden, uh, what's his name? Bernal, Andrew Bernal, plead the Fifth, right? Um, you know, and Ron Klain apparently stayed up there for a couple of hours talking, right? But, you know, again, I don't think ... He wasn't there for the last couple of years of the administration I think, but he was there for the debate prep, right? And he's come out publicly and said, "I was shocked at his condition." So, you know, people-

Joe Rogan 55:03 I think they set him up for failure in that debate.

Mike Baker 55:07 Hm.

Joe Rogan 55:07 Why ... First of all, why are they having a debate that late? Why would they agree to a debate at 9:00 PM-

Mike Baker 55:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:13 ... when you got a guy who's really old-

Mike Baker 55:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:15 ... and kind of broken down? Why would you do that?

Mike Baker 55:18 Television timing? Who knows? Uh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:20 And it seems like ... Didn't someone blame it on him being on Ambien?

Mike Baker 55:25 Yeah. Hunter did.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Yeah.

Mike Baker 55:26 Hunter did.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Hunter did.

Mike Baker 55:27 That fantastic interview that Hunter just did with, um-

Joe Rogan 55:29 Yeah.

Mike Baker 55:30 I forget his name. Andrew Callaghan or something like that. Um, yeah. He, he referenced ... Now he's walking it back, saying, "I ... You know, I wasn't meaning that he was on Ambien during the debate. I'm just saying, you know, he was ... You know, they had him on Ambien because of his travel schedule." The guy was, the guy was at Camp David and, and resting in Delaware for 10 days prior to the debate, so yeah. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 55:52 Jesus. What a mess. I think they set him up. I think they wanted him out, and this is the way to do it. Get him in the debate, don't give him his medicine.

Mike Baker 56:01 (coughs) Excuse me.

Joe Rogan 56:02 Don't give him the proper medication to keep him up and peppy, and l- let him out there all confused, and apparently he had a cold at the time too, so it was ...

Mike Baker 56:09 But if you ... If, if they were gonna do that, wouldn't you think that they would, um ... I don't know, um, have a better plan? A plan B?

Joe Rogan 56:18 No, they didn't have a plan, and I think-

Mike Baker 56:20 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 56:20 ... the Biden administration, the people didn't want him to step down. There's people-

Mike Baker 56:25 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 56:25 ... inside the organization that didn't want him to step down, particularly, supposedly, Jill. Jill did not want him to step down. But then there's the cancer thing. Like, how do they not know-

Mike Baker 56:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:36 ... that he has cancer? Well they have to know.

Mike Baker 56:37 It's Stage 4.

Joe Rogan 56:38 Yeah.

Mike Baker 56:38 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:39 Which is crazy. Like, that-

Mike Baker 56:41 (coughs) Of course.

Joe Rogan 56:41 That's years of developing.

Mike Baker 56:44 Sorry, man. I got a cough. Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I just think if, if there was a, if there was a plan, if there was a nefarious plan to have him step down, um ... I think they thought he would get through it. I think they did. Um ...

Joe Rogan 56:57 He might have if he performed the way he performed in the first debate.

Mike Baker 57:03 Yeah, I don't know. I just ... It seems to me that, that they're m- ... They were caught in the headlights at the point where, where he did so poorly.

Joe Rogan 57:12 Take some water, buddy. You smell like shit.

Mike Baker 57:13 Yeah. I'm, I'm ... Yeah, I'm gonna ... I know-

Joe Rogan 57:14 Jesus Christ.

Mike Baker 57:14 I sound like an alcoholic. God, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:15 What the fuck is going on here?

Mike Baker 57:15 I know. Yeah, it's, it's the Ambien. It's starting to kick in.

Joe Rogan 57:20 Have you ever taken that stuff?

Mike Baker 57:21 No. Mm-mm. No. Have you?

Joe Rogan 57:23 It scares the shit out of me. No.

Mike Baker 57:24 You never? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:25 No, my friend Kevin took it, and he got up in the middle of the night, cooked a meal, went to bed, and, uh, didn't know he cooked a meal so he went back and saw the plates in the kitchen, thought someone broke into his house and cooked.

Mike Baker 57:39 (slurps)

Joe Rogan 57:39 Like, yeah, that's not good.

Mike Baker 57:40 No, no, um ... I've never taken it. Have you taken Xanax?

Joe Rogan 57:44 No.

Mike Baker 57:44 No. Neither have I. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:46 That stuff's scary. That stuff's real-

Mike Baker 57:48 (sighs) .

Joe Rogan 57:48 That's what fucked Jordan Peterson up. That stuff's really hard to kick.

Mike Baker 57:52 Oh. It ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:54 I, I, yeah-

Mike Baker 57:54 Benzodiazepine is one of the hardest things to kick. It's, uh, one of the things that if you get off it cold turkey, it can kill you.

Joe Rogan 58:02 Good God. Really?

Mike Baker 58:03 Yeah. Yeah, and they put everybody on it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:05 Yeah. Yeah, that ... Well, that's what I was gonna say. (laughs)

Mike Baker 58:06 It seems like it's readily available. Um ...

Joe Rogan 58:08 As is Adderall.

Mike Baker 58:09 (clears throat) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:10 Readily available and fucking super bad for you.

Mike Baker 58:13 Although, uh, during the, uh, what was it? During the pandemic you couldn't get Adderall. I remember that being an issue.

Joe Rogan 58:18 Right. Make it-

Mike Baker 58:19 I remember reading stories about that because-

Joe Rogan 58:20 ... make it overseas?

Mike Baker 58:21 Couldn't ... Yeah, exactly. A- as they do with most of our pharmaceuticals, including what we've been talking about, so ...

Joe Rogan 58:25 And so then people probably bought black market Adderall, which probably has fentanyl in it, which probably contributed to a lot of deaths.

Mike Baker 58:32 Yeah, yeah. I got this voice now. I sound like, uh, Kim Carnes, you know?

Joe Rogan 58:36 Who?

Mike Baker 58:37 Remember Bette Davis eyes? Kim Carnes?

Joe Rogan 58:38 Oh, yeah.

Mike Baker 58:39 It's a very sultry voice I've got going on here for a second.

Joe Rogan 58:41 Hm, I forgot about that song.

Mike Baker 58:42 Yeah. (clears throat) Yeah, I ... Well, yeah. (laughs) I suspect most people have. Um ...

Joe Rogan 58:46 Time waits for no one.

Mike Baker 58:47 Yeah, but I think, um ... So, yeah, so the, the Biden, um, uh, let's call it a cover-up. That's ... Again, it's, it's an example of, um, how people are not more upset about that, right? I mean, it, it, it, uh, it ... Again, with the idea that we've got ADHD and everybody's moving on, but you would imagine that that story if, if, if none other, right? Because it's not quite as complicated as the, as the Intel issue or even as the Epstein files. It's pretty straightforward. People hiding the condition of the leader of the free world. So, anyway, that's ... It's just a thought. I'm surprised that it's gone away.

Joe Rogan 59:30 Well then there's the Autopen as well. That's another wild thing.

Mike Baker 59:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:34 Because so many of these people that were pardoned were pardoned by Autopen, and so you have to ... It begs the question, like, how was that negotiated? Like, who was involved in that? Who made those decisions? What was their motivation?

Mike Baker 59:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:50 Were they compensated?

Mike Baker 59:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:52 Like w-

Mike Baker 59:53 Was ... And look, he was, he says he, uh, the former president, Biden, says he was advised on all of this. He was in on all of these, and, and the Autopen was primarily used for, you know, um, you know, sort of wrote, uh, pardons, um, collective pardons where they're pardoning, you know, for a, an action, if, you know. And so you have a number of people included in that that you're, you're giving pardons to.... but, um, all of this, whether it's that, whether it's any of the other things we've been talking about, at the end of the day, it's, it's no wonder ... Look, people's confidence level in politicians, in, and government institutions, and the media is at an all-time low, right? And that, that's a, I think that's, it's a really dangerous thing. But I don't see how you walk the dog back on that, right? I mean, what, what ... How do you do that? How do you, how do you suddenly create more trust in any of those things?

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 Well, I think a lot of people thought that draining the swamp would create trust, right? The idea of Trump coming into office. We had four terrible years under Biden. Trump's gonna come in and clean things up.

Mike Baker 1:00:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 Everything's gonna make sense now. But everything is ju- just as chaotic, if not more, and just as confusing. I mean, there's good things that are happening.

Mike Baker 1:01:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 The closing of the border is clearly a good thing.

Mike Baker 1:01:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 That was-

Mike Baker 1:01:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 ... fucking scary and dangerous.

Mike Baker 1:01:10 Yeah, no, from, from ... Look, from a, from a policy perspective ... Look, the, the other day, they had, um, like nine crossings, right? Nine, right, compared to maybe 10,000, 11,000, 12,000 a day in, in-

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 Right.

Mike Baker 1:01:23 ... the previous administration. Um, so that, that's a, that's a huge win, and that's what they should be talking about. And they should be talking about, um, the, the trade deals, right? They got a good trade deal with Japan. They got a good trade deal with Indonesia. They got a good trade deal with Vietnam. They, you know, signed one with the UK. They're getting ready for the European Union. Um, there's things that they should be talking about and instead, once again, we're fucking consumed with what we've been discussing, Epstein and the Intel manipulation. You know, I mean, you think of Biden's condition, and (laughs) it's ... God.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 Obama and treason and-

Mike Baker 1:01:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Yeah.

Mike Baker 1:01:55 Yeah, so it's, it's really ... It's, it's disappointing, but, you know, I'd ... Again, I don't know how ... You know, it, it, it ... This is a, it, it ... I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than the fact (laughs) that it's, it- it- it's very depressing if you think about, you know, where our focus is right now, right? There's a lot of flashpoints around the world, a lot of real serious crises, right? And, and, and threats to national security and, and concerns. And, you know, the, the, the White House can't seem to, you know, get a focus, right? On, on things, and ... But yeah, the, the border thing is a, is a great win. That's a, that's a very ... From a, uh, national security issue, that's a terrific win.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 Yeah, the, the fact that it was open for so long is so insane to think that anybody would think that would be a good idea, unless you wanted chaos.

Mike Baker 1:02:46 Yeah. Y- that, that is always discussed as, like, was it intentional? I don't see how it's not intentional, right? I mean, that's ... 'Cause y- we can see now after six months (laughs) of the, the, the second Trump administration, that you can fix the problem, right?

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Yeah, they could've fixed it instantly.

Mike Baker 1:03:00 It's very fixable. They could've done it, and they, and they chose not to, so y- you know. Clearly there, there's a lot of people in that, in the D- Dem party, in the Democratic Party that, you know, are fans of or believe in open borders. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 But there's also the moving of the people to swing states and the fact that it changes the number of Congressional seats regardless of whether or not someone's there legally or illegally.

Mike Baker 1:03:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 Once they do a census on how many people live there, it raises the number of Congressional seats that's available.

Mike Baker 1:03:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 Which is crazy.

Mike Baker 1:03:30 Well, yeah. It- it-

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 All the ... All that's so wild, that it's so transparent.

Mike Baker 1:03:35 I ... Yeah, I mean, look at, look at, you know, look at Europe. I, I know that's kind of a ... You know, people talk about this, but look at France, look at the UK. I mean, e- though, you know, much smaller environments, and you can see what happens when you have massive migration, right? And it's ... And look, hey, I'm, I'm not, I'm not against immigration. I'm just saying it should be legal. You should know who's coming across your border.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 Yeah.

Mike Baker 1:03:55 You should have security. Um, you can't pay for everybody, right? I mean, so y- opening up your borders and saying, "Come on in, and we're gonna provide you with, with, you know, (laughs) whatever Mamdani in New York is providing, new ... free grocery stores and free bus and free childcare, and everything's gonna be free." Um-

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 And they're gonna tax businesses.

Mike Baker 1:04:15 They're gonna, he said they're gonna tax-

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 That's how they're gonna pay for it.

Mike Baker 1:04:16 That's what he said. He said, "And if you're wondering how I'm gonna pay for this, I'm gonna tax the rich," right? You think, like, "Oh my God."

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 (laughs)

Mike Baker 1:04:22 How m- ... You know, Stalin. You, you've been going all the way back to ... You know, it, it, it ... Communists have been talking that way for years, feeding the same bullshit lines to gormless sheep, where just now Mamdani's just talking to a new generation of sheep, and, and, uh, you know, he could well end up as the mayor.

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 Well, it's, the thing is, like, utopian perspectives are really attractive to young people because you see-

Mike Baker 1:04:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 ... the way these older rich people have been running the world.

Mike Baker 1:04:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 It's all corrupt. They don't care. They're all capitalists and monsters. All they care about is money. I don't have any money. I want them to take the money away from the rich people and give it to the poor people, and then everything will be fine.

Mike Baker 1:04:59 Yeah. No, and, and-

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 It's, like, a common thought-

Mike Baker 1:05:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 ... amongst young people.

Mike Baker 1:05:02 Look, I, I, I get it. I, I mean, if you're a young person, you probably look at your parents. If your parents have done okay, done well, and you're thinking, "Well, that ... You know, maybe I'm not gonna be able to do that," right?

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 Right.

Mike Baker 1:05:12 I mean, a lot of young folks now are saying, "I can't buy a house. How am I gonna get a down payment for a house," right? Um, "You know, I'm drowning in school loans," which of course they took out. Uh, but ... So I get the frustration in a sense, and so I think, you know, Mamdani is doing, again, what, you know, a lot of slick socialists or communists in the past have done, right? He's speaking to the, to the masses, and he's using all these platitudes. And there will be an element that, that buys into it, right? Because they haven't seen how shitty it can be, right?

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 Well, it seems like a huge element bought into it. He won the primary.

Mike Baker 1:05:43 He won the primary, yeah. No, I, I think-

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 So what happens now? So Eric Adams is the current mayor.

Mike Baker 1:05:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 So if this guy wins the primary, is, is Adams e- even ... Is it possible for him to run? Like, what ... How does it work now?

Mike Baker 1:05:58 Well, I guess, I mean, he could run as a ... He could run as a Independent, um, which maybe is his intention. Um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 'Cause he apparently is still running, right?

Mike Baker 1:06:08 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 He plans on running.

Mike Baker 1:06:10 Wasn't Cuomo also planning on running, or did he drop out again?

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 I believe he's still trying to run as well.

Mike Baker 1:06:15 Yeah, yeah, I think he's ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 So he lost the primary, and I think people think that people are so horrified that Mamdani's in that they think that maybe it's possible. And then there's Curtis Sliwa.

Mike Baker 1:06:24 Y- yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 He still wants to wear that stupid fucking hat.

Mike Baker 1:06:26 ... yeah, God bless Curtis Sliwa, but at some point-

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 If he took that fucking hat off, maybe he'd have a chance.

Mike Baker 1:06:30 Yeah, at some point he's gotta stop that. Um, but I think, uh, there's a good chance that, that, if Eric Adams ran as an Independent, maybe that's the plan, and if Cuomo dropped out, I think if they split the vote, then I think Mamdani wins. But they're going to have to, and the Democrats, you know, nationwide, seem to have some real concern over Mamdani, right? Because that's not the message they want to send at a time when they see, sort of, this cultural shift in, in, in America where we think, "Okay, we m- might be done with this whole woke issue," right? And then they see Mamdani out there slinging-

Joe Rogan 1:07:03 Doubling down.

Mike Baker 1:07:03 ... the bullshit, doubling down. Um, and you got Bernie Sanders backing him, you got Jerry Nadler back in, in New York backing him, you got, obviously AOC backing him. Um, so they, they rightly so, because what do they wanna do? They wanna reclaim the White House, right? And they wanna reclaim the Senate. They wanna... Th- they're not gonna do it riding the backs of, of, of a, a vowed socialist, right? Who wants to-

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 More than a socialist.

Mike Baker 1:07:25 ... reclaim the... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 Essentially a communist.

Mike Baker 1:07:27 Yes, yeah. So, and he's, you know, he's, uh, you know, uh, a- again, uh, God bless the ideology of the youth, but, you know, people should, you know, do a little bit more research, um, into his ideas and how they've worked elsewhere, right? Um, and, and maybe they'd, might-

Joe Rogan 1:07:46 There's only one way-

Mike Baker 1:07:47 ... change their vote.

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 ... to enforce those ideas, and that's with guns. (laughs)

Mike Baker 1:07:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:53 That's how, that's-

Mike Baker 1:07:54 That's it.

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 ... that's how you force people.

Mike Baker 1:07:54 That's it, that's a government grocery store. Get the hell over there.

Joe Rogan 1:07:56 Yeah, government grocery stores-

Mike Baker 1:07:58 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 ... and taking money away from the rich people. Like-

Mike Baker 1:08:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 ... how are you gonna enforce that?

Mike Baker 1:08:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 You, you need force.

Mike Baker 1:08:03 Well, they're trying to. I mean, look, look, California tried to, I think they've, um, maybe they've even enacted it. They've tried, um, to, uh, figure out a way to tax people who are leaving the state.

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 Yeah, that was a thought that they had that I don't think is constitutional.

Mike Baker 1:08:17 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 Yeah, they wanted it l- I think it was five years. So, if you had left within... So, me, I could get taxed.

Mike Baker 1:08:24 God. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 For, even though I've been outta there for five years. But that's just-

Mike Baker 1:08:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:29 ... it, they're just so irresponsible with what they've done with the tax money. They have some of