The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #2369 - Ed Calderon
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,029 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Art Bell was the best. Driving home from The Comedy Store at, like, 1:00 in the morning and hearing some dude who claimed he was a time traveler. (laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
R- Remember when he, uh ... th- there was a dude that claimed to work at Area 51 and then it cut out, the, the, the- ... radio show cut out?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that was a good one.
- ECEd Calderon
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Art was the man.
- ECEd Calderon
He would get ... Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's why we put that photo up there, 'cause he was, you know, the ... A lot of the subjects that we covered, he was the original guy talking about these things on the radio.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. And then all -- the, the fact that he just kept the op- the open lines. If you're-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... a time traveler tr- (laughs) if you're a time traveler, just ca- call in and tell what ... Tell us what's going to happen in the future.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, people that were kidnapped by Bigfoot. Like, no matter what, Art was like, "Interesting, tell me more."
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
Like he was open to just-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
... talking to anyone, it was great.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he never called bullshit. (laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
No. Uh-uh, no.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, uh, the last time I saw you, you gave me an Aztec death whistle and, uh, Bryan Callen blew it on the air and it cau- it caused the ca- the pandemic.
- ECEd Calderon
He was very good at it out of nowhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
He'd just, like, grab it and wooo.
- JRJoe Rogan
We have another one.
- ECEd Calderon
Oh, no. Don't.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at this one.
- ECEd Calderon
Probably that's ... Luke Caverns gave us this one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
That's a good one, right?
- 15:00 – 30:00
Where they go up…
- ECEd Calderon
he's depicted in, with a skeletal form with his hands spread out like this, and you'll see a split, uh, diaphragm on the bottom c- coming out underneath his ribcage as a signifier that, you know, that's...
- JRJoe Rogan
Where they go up to grab the heart.
- ECEd Calderon
That's where they go up to grab the heart.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. Show, show that s- sculpture, that sculpture, that flat bench sculpture that is like a man. It looks like he's, uh, sitting on his hands and knees, but with his, you know, torso faced upward. That one, yeah.
- GUGuest
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that was the one they were explaining to me.
- ECEd Calderon
And, and again, I, I imagine that a lot of these things, I mean, you have to interpret because there's, there, there are things out there that I, I don't understand. Um, but I know blood was very essential and it was a, uh, essential thing for these cultures. It's one of the most powerful offerings you can make. Um, and a lot of the Catholic side of things that came into the country, uh, that came into this area, uh, just intermingled perfectly. You know, they also, they were also talking about a god that, uh, that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at those skulls in the corner, right next to your cursor, Jimmy.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
In the middle there.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right there.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, it, where, where the capital of Mexico is right now, there's a big cathedral, behind it, they, there's a, there's the Templo Mayor, the, the major temple of the Aztec Empire, and it, there, there's a lot of those, uh, types of symbologies around it, just skulls, because that's where they would have the, the cempasuchil, I think it's called. Sorry if I butchered that word. Uh, they would have these racks of skulls on top of the pyramids, on, on top of their central pyramid, kind of displaying all of the people that had gone, you know, off it.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what was the story w- was it the completion of Tenochtitlan or one of the Aztec pyramids where they sacrificed 80,000 slaves?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Over like whoever they had-
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, I, I've heard, I've heard like numbers of 50,000. I have no idea how you would kind of figure out those numbers-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- ECEd Calderon
... but you do get, uh, accounts of some of the Spanish, uh, conquistadors describing the smell that some of these pyramids had.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh.
- ECEd Calderon
Which if you've ever been to a kill house, like a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... like a slaughterhouse?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I have.
- ECEd Calderon
You know, this, this, this, this, this-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a dark smell.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. It's like, it's an uncanny, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... there's something about human tallow that I've also smelled and, and blood that is very-
- 30:00 – 45:00
Uh, but this is…
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, but this is coming off a, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mexico has liberals too, I guess? (laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
Yes, we do. Me- Mexico is three, Mexico is three things. Southern Mexico, that's, that's rural Mexico. Central Mexico, that's where all the, uh, all the, all the woke comes from. The capital of Mexico, that's where all the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mexico City.
- ECEd Calderon
That's where all the general pronouns get issued into law, that's where the violence, uh, against women specifically and, uh, feminicide is now a new thing cataloged under the law. You, you can kill a dude, you're fine, but if you kill a woman, that's feminicide which is way worse. Um, so it's... That's where a lot of that polit- a lot, uh, a lot of that policy comes from. And then Northern Mexico where I'm from, that's where, I guess-... I don't know, conservative. Uh, that's where all the factories are, that's where all the people, the, the hard work, hardworking people, and the, the people that kind of like, uh, go the other side of the politics that are woke. That used to be the case, but now morena's all, ruling all over the country. And a lot of the policies they're bringing with them are, you know, to the left. Um, Mexico was very tired from the drug war that it had been going on for 20 years, that I was a part of for, for 12 of those years. Um, they saw Felipe Calderon bring the military into this fight to fight the cartels, and just kicking a giant beehive. He had, realistically, he really didn't have a clue what, what he was about to kind of kick off. Um, he had the idea that if you just put the military out, you know, which are not corrupted, well, he thought they were not corrupted, um, and you militarized a lot of the policing going on around it, you can eliminate all these cartel members. Like, oh, just this guy's gone, this guy's gone, and we're gonna just now secure this area in control. But it's been just basically gremlins, you know. One gremlin will turn (laughs) into four or five. You cut one head off and it's a hydra. It's just bunch of heads come out now. So Mexico has been going through that for, for a while, and then this president comes in, Andres Lopez Obrador, uh, with this plan of like, "We'll just leave them alone and they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll stop... Violence will stop because we'll stop fighting them."
- JRJoe Rogan
How'd that work?
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, he has one of the most violent presidencies in history. Uh, his main cri-... He criticizes Calderon who started this drug war over his handling of it. He out, he outmatches him from deaths during his administration. Um, what we saw in his administration was the politi- politicalization. And they were already in politics, but they, now they're really overt about it. Now cartels are like, they have their own candidates running for office. Um, the mayor of a city and the police chief of a city, they're all cartel members. In the police force, they're all ca- cartel members in parts of Mexico.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, boy.
- ECEd Calderon
The, all of the political killings that happen in Mexico don't happen because there's a bunch of John F. Kennedys out there that are trying to change things, right? It's because that cartel is sponsoring that candidate.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- ECEd Calderon
And this cartel's sponsoring that candidate, so I don't want your candidate to win, so I'm gonna go shoot him. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there was some insane amount of murders during the last election. Wasn't it like 30 plus murders? See if you can find out how many murders there was.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, yeah, that sounds about, that's what it sounds about right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, it is, again, these criminal organizations have politicized. They've figured out that, you know, how can we operate in this region without having too much issues?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- ECEd Calderon
Let's put, let's make the mayor our guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- ECEd Calderon
And let's elect the governor. So...
- JRJoe Rogan
And we like to think that we're innocent over here, but how much different is it with what we do with pharmaceutical drug companies sponsoring people? Because they pay for peoples' campaigns, and those people get in with a specific understanding of what kind of laws you need to push through, what kind of mandates you need to make in terms of the, you know, mandating the use of certain medications.
- ECEd Calderon
It, it, it, uh, it's a different type of corruption, you know, but it's, but it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a different type of corruption, but it's-
- ECEd Calderon
... it's, it's, it's, it's still drugs.
- JRJoe Rogan
... still drugs.
- ECEd Calderon
Still drugs.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Up to 60, 60 politicians in the 2024 general and local elections, 60 politicians were assassinated-
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... during pre-campaign and pick campaign periods. Fucking yo. Imagine if that was (laughs) going on in America. Marjorie Taylor Greens get whacked, AOCs get whacked. Like that would be fucking crazy. This episode is brought to you by Visible. I wanna let you in on something. Your current wireless carrier does not want you to know about Visible, because Visible is the ultimate wireless hack. No confusing plans with surprise fees, no nonsense, just fast speeds, great coverage without the premium cost. With Visible, you get one line wireless with unlimited data powered by Verizon's network for $25 a month, taxes and fees included. Seriously, $25 a month flat. What you see is what you pay, no hidden fees on top of that. Ready to see? Join now and unlock unlimited data for just $25 a month on the Visible plan. Don't think wireless can be so transparent, so Visible? Well now you know. Switch today at visible.com/rogan. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details.
- ECEd Calderon
And, and it, it is a clear sign that whatever division people had in their heads about the cartels or this organization here and they're, they don't, they're not openly at least involved in any of this political stuff, and n- n- no. All that shit's gone. Um, something happened r-... Something happened last year. Um, the arrest of one of the biggest cartel heads in history from Mexico, El Mayo Zambada. He was arrested in Texas. He flew into a private air... They flew him into a private airfield under pretty s- interesting, uh, circumstances and then handed, hand- he handed himself over to authorities. He was arrested there, I mean. Um, that kicked off a lot of violence in Mexico.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
High treason? …
- ECEd Calderon
and putting him in the US, which is-
- JRJoe Rogan
High treason?
- ECEd Calderon
He's, he's charged with high treason, so if they're-
- JRJoe Rogan
For abducting a drug lord?
- ECEd Calderon
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa. (laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
Which is... Like, I don't know, like I'm doing the math on all that, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- ECEd Calderon
But you have this, you have this situation now where she's blaming the US for basically causing this instability.
- JRJoe Rogan
Here is Sinaloa. Give me some vi- um, some volume on this 'cause-
- ECEd Calderon
Oh, this is th- th- these-
- NANarrator
(Spanish) .
- ECEd Calderon
Th- this is, this is the members of El Mayo's family shooting up all the luxury houses of Los Chapitos.
- JRJoe Rogan
Geez. I hope these guys are using ear protection.
- ECEd Calderon
No, they're not.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
We'll, we'll talk about that in a bit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you could probably sneak up on all those motherfuckers.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're probably all deaf.
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, but th- they, they're basically shooting up all the luxury apartments that they know are owned by the Chapos in that area.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
They, they, they love 100 round drum magazines in Mexico for some reason. I don't-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a .50 cal with no hearing protection? (laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
Y- why? You don't need it.
- NANarrator
(Spanish) .
- JRJoe Rogan
How many of those guys are deaf?
- ECEd Calderon
Oh, a lot of them have, uh, severe hearing loss and, and a l- I we- I recently went to Jalisco with a friend of mine who's a, he has a YouTube channel called The Connect, uh, Johnny Mitchell. Um, he talks to drug dealers and, like, people in the, in that life. Uh, there's a friend of mine in, in Mexico and he's, uh, he ha- he's basically the Mexican Sean Ryan, um, Agave423 is his, uh, handle, and he interviews, like, cartel members and people from that life.
- JRJoe Rogan
Woof.
- ECEd Calderon
Um, and-
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Oh. …
- ECEd Calderon
Um, I was in Coahuila, uh, working with a, with a, with a tactical group out there. Um, they, they sh- they, uh, they, they showed me. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm always learning from p- people. Different regions have different ways of getting rid, rid of bodies, you know? Uh, some just burn 'em, just throw fuel, fuel on 'em to see if they can burn. In this part of the country, Coahuila, which is on the east side of the, uh, the country, they will heat up fuel drums with diesel inside of them and diesel's, diesel can get really hot without igniting, and that's where they put the bodies inside, basically boil them down to their essential essence.
- NANarrator
Oh.
- ECEd Calderon
And there's nothing to find is what they tell me with that process.
- NANarrator
Wow.
- ECEd Calderon
Um, you go to my hometown of Tijuana, that's where we had a-
- NANarrator
Boiling cauldrons of diesel to dispose bodies.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- NANarrator
Bro.
- ECEd Calderon
And then you, you go to Tijuana where I'm from, and then you got the, the phenomenon of a, uh, phenomenon of a pozolero who would get rid of people with caustic soda, just a mixture of chemicals that you could buy and, uh, find at an, uh, a hardware store and they would make people into pink slurry and they'd just dump the pink slurry in a hole and just cover it up.So, the numbers that we see as far as dead and- dead and missing, there's- there's- it's- it's not a real number. Th- that has to be bigger. Um, you know, it's- it- it is a- it is a place where you'll go into some towns and there's just a bunch of old men and females because all the- all the men were gone, you know?
- GUGuest
(exhales)
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, or you'll see, um... You'll see, like, these abandoned graves in some places. This- there was- I talked to a lady who's a part of some of these, uh... There's these organizations all over the country right now that are grassroots organizations that are basically just dedicated to finding clandestine body disposal places. They're looking for their family members, basically. Uh...
- GUGuest
How do you say that word?
- ECEd Calderon
Isaguirre? Yeah, yeah, that's, uh- that's, uh- that's, uh, ri- that's the- the one I told you that was- pe- people were trying to make it seem like this was, like, an- an extermination camp.
- GUGuest
How do you say the word?
- ECEd Calderon
Isaguirre.
- GUGuest
Isaguirre. "A high concentrations of ash suggests the presence of clandestine crematoriums."
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. It- it- it- it- bodies were disposed of there, not at the volume of an Auschwitz-level thing, um, but yeah, there were- there were definitely people getting burned there.
- GUGuest
So, they're just killing people all the time?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. I mean, body disposal to a level where there's nothing left is- is something you do in a place where you're worried about the government catching you. But this is gual- this is Guadalajara, it's one of these, 'cause it's New Generation Cartel tor- territory, they're not worried about bo- bodies being found. Um, there's no for- the forensic services in some of these places (laughs) are like... You know, "Here- here's some bu- spent casings from this murder." "Oh, thank you." Just throw them in this hill of jus- this- this giant hill of casings that they have in this (laughs) evidence locker, right? Um, they're overwhelmed. Uh, there's no, like, ******, numbers.
- GUGuest
Also, you can't solve any crimes. You're dead.
- ECEd Calderon
90% of all murders...
- GUGuest
Imagine your job, if you do it well, you're dead.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, exactly. (laughs)
- GUGuest
But you're not gonna do it well. (laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
No, 90% of all murders in Mexico are never solved.
- GUGuest
90?
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, maybe a bit over that.
- GUGuest
(exhales)
- ECEd Calderon
So, it's, um... Um, you- you- you- you have this cartel now that is, you know, you have El Mayor Sombrerito's gone. El Chapo's sons are cutting a deal. One of them apparently has made an alliance with the- the head of the- the- the New Generation Cartel, a man by El Mencho. Uh, his nickname is El Mencho. Nemesio Seguila Cervantes is his real name. Uh, last time I was here, there was like, uh, this was almost five years ago that I was here, there were questions about if he was even alive or not, you know? People th- thought that he was, like, being kept alive as this folk figure, uh, because he's low-key. Um, very low-key, not like... He's not flashy. Everything's militarized. He's very good at his, uh, tradecraft. Um, but recently, you know, he's very much alive (laughs) . Um, he's very much, uh, exposed himself a few times. He was almost arrested recently, and the federal police apparently tipped off his security about th- the operation against him. It's the second time that he was almost arrested. Uh, he's the biggest target right now in Mexico. Um, o- we recently learned through the media of, uh, the- the- Trump's, uh, authorization of utilizing military action in- in Me- in Latin America in general, you know? All the way from Venezuela, all the way up to Mexico. And, you know, you hear these rumblings of like, "How is this military operation gonna look like? Is this gonna be an invasion," you know? "Is- are we gonna see, like, a column of US Marines driving down to Tijuana?" Um, I'm probably getting- spent some time in Tijuana (laughs) for... (laughs) Uh, it's probably not a good i- good idea. Uh, are we gonna see, like, people, uh, Delta Force guys showing up in, uh, in Tijua- uh, in- in Culiacan and- and going on a raid on- on their own without permission of the local authorities? What's this gonna look like? Um, I- I- I don't see a direct trust between Mexico and the F- uh, Mexico and the United States anymore. There's, like, there's issues there. Um, the US has realized that politics are- are compromised at a high level in Mexico.
- GUGuest
Completely.
- 1:15:00 – 1:19:51
And how wild would…
- ECEd Calderon
guns. But they're us- but in the hands of a cartel guy wearing s- like sandals, which is ... What's go- what the fuck is going on with these people? Uh, so you start seeing all this augmentation of capabilities. This single cartel now has all of this history behind it, all of these lessons behind it, all of this training behind it, all of this technology, and it is poised to make, punch a hole right through its territory and go up north into the United States. Right? There are no segments of the border wall currently that is, that are actually r- controlled and, or, or a city that is controlled by the New Generation Cartel that is on the border. That's not the case now. But there are places that are starting to maybe look like they're going that way. Um, Tijuana being one of them, uh, where I'm from. You start seeing, uh, the last remaining sons of El Chapo Guzman that are free, uh, Archivaldo is the strongest one, um, and his faction of Los Chapitos is, uh, is what they call themselves, r- this past year, uh, announced that they had reached an alliance with this new cartel, this, the New Generation Cartel. So, it's now, it's a cohesive force and they had historical ties and, and, and, and, and, and, and a part of the border that they owned already that they inherited from their dad. So that nightmare scenario having this cartel now having a clear doorway into United States is, it's pretty close if it's not there already.
- JRJoe Rogan
And how wild would it be if the border was still wide open? Because they've cut down on illegal immigrants by some high 90%.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. It's, it's way down. There's still crossings going on, though.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah. I'm sure.
- ECEd Calderon
It's just it's really expensive. It's really expensive. Uh, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
You gotta get that guy off TikTok.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, there, there's a bunch of ways they do, uh ... I saw one where they were like, "Hey," they'll grab a portfolio full of, uh, copies of IDs. And like, "Oh, you look like this dude." And then they'll give you a, you know, they'll say like, "Just get really drunk before you cross and they'll pretend you're asleep." And they'll give you paperwork that looks like the dude, that looks like you. And that's how they cross people and it's a lot, it's very expensive, but that's how they cross you. Fast boats, you know? There's a bunch of videos online-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... just boats just arriving on the beach and just dudes jumping out. It's a classic.
- JRJoe Rogan
And running.
- ECEd Calderon
And running. There's like a sh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Once they're in, they're in.
- ECEd Calderon
There's a shortage of l- those, uh, wave runners, there's a shortage of them in Mexico.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- ECEd Calderon
Because they just buy them, just a vroom.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, a short trip, I mean, if you think, if you're, you get on one in Tijuana and you hop over to San Diego-
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's not that far.
- ECEd Calderon
No. And, and, and they'll swarm it now. They'll do many of those boats. And, and if you were in TJ you could see off the coast, there's a bunch of, uh, navy ships now off the coast there. So like, which is a cause for alarm for a lot of Mexicans. Uh, the m- m- mex ... When I say ... Mexicans view any sort of intervention by United States with fear. Although they are also fearful of what happens if this is allowed to continue in Mexico and they don't see any solutions from the government. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
It seems like the opposite. It seems like it's going more and more towards the cartel.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So what would happen if the United States didn't infiltrate? If the United States didn't attack, if something didn't happen, if they just sl-
- ECEd Calderon
I think, I think-
- JRJoe Rogan
... stepped away.
- ECEd Calderon
... we're e- I think we're already involved. You know? This, this, the, this arrest of Amauz Ambada, this, uh, this r- this designation that allows a lot of thi- safety, uh, safeties off type, uh, thing against Mexic- uh, against, uh, some of these cartels. What's worrying i- in the eyes of Mexico and in the eyes of, uh, Mexicans, I guess, the, you know, the fact that there was a promise of no negotiating with terrorists, or it's, at least it's, it's something that is assumed. You know? You don't negotiate with terrorists, it's like a thing you, you know. But all of a sudden one of these factions just made a deal and now (laughs) they did, they're negotiating with them and now all these people are crossing that border, uh, their family members are crossing that border and now in the safety of the United States. Um, the dude that the United States made a deal with is responsible for the death of a few special operators that were a part of his arrest. What, what are they gonna tell their families of, of that loss and why they died, you know? And also, the m- the, the piles of bodies that were around after both of his, uh, arrest attempts. Um, so there's distrust on all sides. Um, Mexicans don't trust the government to solve it because it's a bit-
- JRJoe Rogan
What's the deal with your president? What's her deal?
- ECEd Calderon
Shay Mom?... uh, (sighs) woke, very woke, very to the left. Uh, a few guerrilla forces in, in Central America have come out and said that she's one of her... that she was one of the resistance fighters with them. Uh, Jewish, uh, heritage.
Episode duration: 3:01:20
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