Joe Rogan Experience #2387 - Gregg Braden

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Gregg Braden 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Narrator 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) We just missed a fabulous conversation about your hair.

Gregg Braden 0:14 (laughs) You have the best hair. We, we talk-

Joe Rogan 0:16 I would not wear headsets if I was you.

Gregg Braden 0:18 Are, are we recording right now?

Joe Rogan 0:19 Yeah, we, we're going now.

Gregg Braden 0:20 So, did you ever know Wayne Dyer?

Joe Rogan 0:22 No, I didn't know Wayne Dyer. Did we ... Wait a minute, do we have Wayne Dyer on the podcast, ever? Like way, way, way, way, way back in the day?

Gregg Braden 0:30 I was, uh, I was on a cruise with ... We had the same publisher, Hay House, is our publisher. And we were on a cruise just off Australia. Of course, the sun's out there, and Wayne came out, and he's got a very shiny head. He said, uh, "Gregg Braden." I said, "Yeah?" He says, "You see this?" And I said, "Yeah." He said, "This is a solar panel for a sex machine."

Joe Rogan 0:50 Okay. (laughs)

Gregg Braden 0:51 And, and I, I couldn't, I couldn't match that, you know?

Joe Rogan 0:53 (laughs)

Gregg Braden 0:53 So I said, I said, "Well, you see this?" I said, "These are ... Every one of these, every one of these hairs is a highly advanced, finely tuned antenna to higher dimensional state spaces of information." And so, that was our joke about hair and, (laughs) and no hair.

Joe Rogan 1:09 Imagine if, like, that's what made you enlightened, how much hair you had, and then when it started to fall out, you got dumber.

Gregg Braden 1:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:15 (laughs)

Gregg Braden 1:15 Well, like I said, they, they ... Every decade of my life, they're saying, "If you have it this decade, you can keep it." So when I hit my 70s, they said, "You got this-"

Joe Rogan 1:21 That's interesting.

Gregg Braden 1:22 ... "you got this, this, uh, you can probably keep it," so ...

Joe Rogan 1:24 Oh, yeah. If you have minoxidil, like, if you've got, like, really good at it today, and there's a bunch of different, uh, DHT inhibitors that are topical that they could use. My friend, Derek, from Derek Moore Plates, More Dates, it's a website. He's got a bunch of, like, protocols on how to save your hair. So people who wanna save their hair.

Gregg Braden 1:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:42 Um, but we were talking about Art Bell when you came in here-

Gregg Braden 1:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44 ... 'cause there's a photograph of Art on the wall that, like, was one of the most important things for me to put up. Like, we talked about it, and Jamie and I were like, "Oh, you gotta get a ... We gotta get a metal picture of Art Bell." Because that was the guy, man. When I was driving home from The Comedy Store at, like, 1:00 in the morning, and I was listening to AM radio, Coast to Coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.

Gregg Braden 2:05 That was it? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:06 It was my favorite. This was like all ... For me, it was kinda pre-internet too. Like, may- ... You know, the internet existed, but it wasn't the thing that it is now. There was no podcasts.

Gregg Braden 2:16 No, but you know, the crazy thing is the stuff that was on that program that was all fringe is what everybody's talking about every day at, at lunch-

Joe Rogan 2:24 Totally mainstream now.

Gregg Braden 2:24 ... at lunch right now.

Joe Rogan 2:25 Area 51, Bob Lazar, totally mainstream.

Gregg Braden 2:29 You know, he was so kind to me. He had me on his program before I had my first book. I self-published my first two books, and I was doing talks, uh, all over up and down the, the West Coast, uh, up into Vancouver. And he had heard ... Somebody in his shop had been to one of those talks, and he invited me on. No book. And, uh, and then he had me on a number of times after that. And so, I, I felt ... I was very honored to be on there. And, you know, we talked about everything, man. He could, uh ... That was the thing. You could talk about anything, anything you wanted to talk about.

Joe Rogan 3:00 It was al- ... It was also, like, Art was a show where you could get real information, and you could also get complete horseshit. And you had to be able to discern-

Gregg Braden 3:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:11 ... what is what, but Art treated everyone with equal respect. Like, you could call him up, "Art, I'm a werewolf." He'd be like, "Interesting."

Gregg Braden 3:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:18 "Tell me more." (laughs)

Gregg Braden 3:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:20 It was never like, "Bitch, you're not a werewolf. You're just mentally ill. You need to get some Prozac," or whatever they give you.

Gregg Braden 3:27 Well, you still, you still gotta be discerning today. You know, I think, I say it's a-

Joe Rogan 3:30 Well, today, you m- more so than ever because of AI and because of-

Gregg Braden 3:34 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:34 ... bots and ...

Gregg Braden 3:35 But, you know, I always say-

Joe Rogan 3:36 ... you never know what's going on.

Gregg Braden 3:37 I think it's important to have, have an open mind but not a gaping mind. And, uh, and there's, uh-

Joe Rogan 3:43 Yes, that's an unfortunate use of terminology, but, uh, yes.

Gregg Braden 3:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:46 I, I agree wholeheartedly.

Gregg Braden 3:47 Well, and, you know, part of the reason for that, and you know this, we, we have a global audience. Uh, a lot of those people are very hurt, unresolved hurt. They're right on the edge.

Joe Rogan 3:57 Mm-hmm.

Gregg Braden 3:57 They're very fragile personalities.

Joe Rogan 3:59 Yeah, that's true.

Gregg Braden 3:59 And what they hear on the radio can be interpreted in a million different ways, and it's ... Uh, you know, I think there's a responsibility that comes with saying things. If, if you're gonna say it, make sure it's accurate.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Y- yeah, and, uh, your intention.

Gregg Braden 4:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:14 Like, what are you trying to do? Like, I'm never trying to hurt someone's feelings.

Gregg Braden 4:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:18 If someone's listening, I'm ... I want you to have a better life. I want your life to be better, you know? And s- ... This is an interesting thing about whether it's bots or whether it's, you know, an actual human being talking about stuff. The way you approach life, um, and the way the people around you approach life is very contagious. And if you're doing it in a very positive, in a loving way, in a friendly way, in a communal way, that's contagious. It's really good. It's good for everybody.

Gregg Braden 4:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:47 But if you're bitter and shitty, it's bad for everybody. What Art was, was, like, very friendly and, and, you know, and fascinated by all these things, and he was a real pro. You know what I mean? It's just like ... So, when I did his show, it was, like, one of the highlights of my life. And I, I got to do the internet version. I never got to do the radio version. So he was on the internet at the t- at the time.

Gregg Braden 5:11 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 5:11 I don't think he was ... Maybe he was on some radio stations, but mostly, I think it was an internet thing. But I was like, "Yes, I'm on with Art Bell."

Gregg Braden 5:17 Yeah, mine was all by phone. It was all landlines back in the, in those days.

Joe Rogan 5:19 Yeah, I was on my phone too. I didn't ... Yeah, I, I did it from my house on the internet, you know? I think I did it, you know, with a headset or something, but I did.

Gregg Braden 5:26 Well, he paved the way, and we're here today.

Joe Rogan 5:29 Yes. Well, he made interesting subjects. You know, like, I remember when they were talking about, uh, things like the face on Mars. And you're like, "What? That sounds so kooky." And then you see pictures, you go, "Hey, man, what is that?"

Gregg Braden 5:42 Well-

Joe Rogan 5:42 "Why didn't I hear about that in school?"

Gregg Braden 5:43 Yeah. And we had Richard Hoagland on-

Joe Rogan 5:45 Yes.

Gregg Braden 5:45 ... night after night after night after night for weeks on end, uh, when, when that came out.

Joe Rogan 5:49 Yes. Yes.

Gregg Braden 5:49 And actually, that face on Mars had a lot to do with my, my career path, actually, because I-

Joe Rogan 5:55 Well, so what is your take on all this? Because one of the things that happened was, with the face on Mars, is the initial images were very grainy but fascinating. 'Cause it did kind of look like a face, but ... Maybe even more remarkable, because sometimes there's faces, like in the side of a rock, it looks like a face. More remarkable was the, the geometric pattern of the base of it.

Gregg Braden 6:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:18 And so-... I, I kinda dismissed that when the second images came out. So this is the original image. This is the ori- original image that freaked everybody out.

Gregg Braden 6:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:27 They were like, "Oh my God, there's a face on Mars." And then they came up with these upgraded images, and I was like, "Well, that's not a face. It's just weird shadows, and it's probably just a mountain." But man, that's an odd shape.

Gregg Braden 6:39 Or, that face has been doctored.

Joe Rogan 6:41 It could be true.

Gregg Braden 6:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:42 But also, then I looked at it, and I was like, "Um, that shape is interesting." Like, it, it almost looks unnatural. Then the new images from very close to Cydonia-

Gregg Braden 6:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:53 ... that show a very clear square. This one's nuts, 'cause this one is somewhere in the neighborhood of between three... It's pl- plus-300 meters.

Gregg Braden 7:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:04 Like, they don't know how much longer it is than 300 meters, but it's th- the minimum size of this thing is 300 meters across. And it's a full-on square. Right angle, right angle-

Gregg Braden 7:15 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:16 ... right. It's like, what the hell is that?

Gregg Braden 7:18 Well, as, as a-

Joe Rogan 7:19 Pull that picture up, Jamie.

Gregg Braden 7:20 As a geologist, I was fascinated when Hoagland, uh, first started talking about what was happening here, so-

Joe Rogan 7:26 What's up, Jamie?

Narrator 7:27 Which one?

Joe Rogan 7:28 Oh, that one. Yeah, yeah, the one that we bring up all the time.

Narrator 7:30 Well, I know which one it is. Which one, though?

Joe Rogan 7:32 Oh, it don't matter.

Gregg Braden 7:32 Some of them are doctored-

Joe Rogan 7:32 Just click on any of them.

Narrator 7:34 Some of them are doctored though.

Joe Rogan 7:35 Yeah, the non-doctored one, the one next to it, like, right there. Look at that. That's cr- absolutely crazy.

Gregg Braden 7:40 Well, so I don't know if you... I'm very familiar with this image. I don't know if you can see with your mind's eye. You're looking at the lower left. That's a 90-degree angle. If you can see the rest of the 90-degree angle up at the top and over at the side, if you can trace out, that is one massive, right there. Yeah, now you can see it. Yeah, the computer has, has cleaned it up. Nature does not work in 90-degree angles. You're not gonna get wind erosion. Wind is called Aeolian erosion. Fluvial erosion is water erosion. You're not gonna get 90-degree angles

Gregg Braden 8:10 from, from wind or water. So, one of the tenets in archeology, when you see 90-degree angles, there's an intentionality underlying that, that structure. If, if it were a one-off, you could say maybe it's a fluke, and it's not. And this is on Mars. Jamie, I don't know if you can do this. Uh, through Freedom of Information, NASA had to release all of the lunar images up through, uh, the Clementine mission. And they didn't want to do that. And when they did release them, they ended up pixeling out a whole bunch of stuff, which made it look even, even more-

Joe Rogan 8:44 More suspicious.

Gregg Braden 8:44 ... obvious than, than it was. So-

Joe Rogan 8:46 They're just fucking with us at this point.

Gregg Braden 8:47 So you gotta say, what is it on, on the s- the lunar surface that we paid for with our tax dollars that we're not supposed to be seeing? And these were, these were, uh, tower structures. Uh, do you, can you see the Clementine?

Narrator 9:00 Yeah, I don't know which one.

Joe Rogan 9:01 Are there any undoctored, unblurred versions of it that some nerd has snuck out of the office?

Gregg Braden 9:05 N- I haven't seen them in the public, I, I haven't seen them in the public domain.

Joe Rogan 9:09 But you've seen them privately?

Gregg Braden 9:10 No, but what I'm saying is, what, the, through Freedom of Information, what they were-

Joe Rogan 9:14 Right, but have you ever seen the undoctored images?

Gregg Braden 9:16 ... forced, no, what they were forced to release.

Joe Rogan 9:17 No.

Gregg Braden 9:17 Why in the world would they be pixelating the images that are on there, that, that actually make them look even, even more obvious than they are? So, so what we're seeing, what Hoagland was talking about, what you're seeing on Mars is not happening in a vacuum. It's happening, we're seeing the same thing on, on the lunar surface, to varying degrees. On Mars, there were three-sided, four-sided, five-sided pyramids.

Joe Rogan 9:39 Look at the one in the upper right-hand corner. That's odd.

Narrator 9:43 I think it's the same thing.

Gregg Braden 9:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:45 Yeah, that's very odd.

Gregg Braden 9:47 So here's, here's the kicker. W- we're sending Viking probes, Viking 1, Viking 2, in the '70s, went to Mars. 19,000 images were captured from the orbiting, uh, part of the mission. The other craft landed on the surface, and, uh, I can just imagine being on the surface seeing this. It's, it's like this, this thing's like a spider, comes down in a cloud of dust. And this little tube pops up, and some sticky dental floss stuff shoots out. And then they reel it in to collect dirt and microbes, and they reel it into broth. Because they're looking for evidence of life on Mars, and it's happening next to massive monuments and geometric structures that are now dated about 50,000 years BP, before present. So they're looking for microbes and signs of life next to the most massive signs of life-

Joe Rogan 10:39 (laughs)

Gregg Braden 10:40 ... you know, that, that you could imagine.

Joe Rogan 10:42 These, uh, you said they're dated to 50,000 BC, these structures?

Gregg Braden 10:45 B- BP.

Joe Rogan 10:46 BP.

Gregg Braden 10:46 BP, before-

Joe Rogan 10:47 Before present.

Gregg Braden 10:47 ... before present, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:48 So, how do they know that?

Gregg Braden 10:50 Those were, uh, when the Cydonia mission, these, that's the Cydonia scientists-

Joe Rogan 10:55 Mm-hmm.

Gregg Braden 10:55 ... are, are estimating 50,000 years, and the same with the, the lunar. Uh, I'm hesitant-

Joe Rogan 11:02 But the Cydonian, uh, how do they estimate that if they're using probes from that far away? Like-

Gregg Braden 11:06 Uh, they're using probes, and I think geologically, they're, they're using, it's relative dating, you know. They're looking at strata and things like that. And from the lunar sites, you know, they brought back samples and... Yeah, I'm hesitant, 'cause I don't know how deep you wanna go with all this. But these-

Joe Rogan 11:21 Just deep as you want.

Gregg Braden 11:21 Well, the, you know, the samples that came back from the lunar surface had traces of, um, of metals that do not occur naturally in ma- in nature, naturally in nature. They are the product of, um, you know, advanced, uh, machinery. And-

Joe Rogan 11:38 Which, what metals are these?

Gregg Braden 11:39 These were metals that came back when they, they brought back from the Apollo mission. Uh, and I think they brought back... Oh, I don't even remember the names. That's one Jamie can look up (laughs) , what the metals were that, that came back. And they, and they don't know where those, those metals came from.

Joe Rogan 11:54 So is this metals from Cydonia, or is this metals from the moon?

Gregg Braden 11:57 This is from the lunar-

Joe Rogan 11:58 This is from the moon.

Gregg Braden 11:58 ... the lunar sites and, and the craters.

Joe Rogan 11:59 So, the structures on the moon, how old do they, they think they're the same age as the structures on Cydonia?

Gregg Braden 12:05 Fif- fif- 50,000. They're, they're estimating 50,000 BP. You know, there's a race for the moon right now. And I'm fascinated by this. You know, m- there was a time only two nations on Earth had the money and the technology to, to go to the moon. It was the former Soviet Union and former United States, 'cause neither one's the same country anymore.... and, um, both those countries have been so broke, they haven't been able to do it. India and China are now sending the probes to the moon. We were going to the moon during the Cold War, and it was, uh, it was a crazy time. It was actually a very civilized war. I mean, the governments were at war, but the scientists were still cooperating. And there was an agreement that we would not share publicly what was found on the lunar surface. And Russia did the same thing. China was never part of that agreement. So China has said when they land, they're going to televise, live, what they find on the lunar surface to the people of the Earth. My sense, Joe, and this is, this will lead into a whole conversation we're gonna have here, I think they'll find, uh, the archeological structures that we know are there, that we've seen in the photographs. The inscriptions on those, on those structures, we're going to be able to read, because they're, there's a, a thinking that those structures are from ETs from another time, but the evidence suggests they're from us, from a time in our past. A cycle of civilization where we did great and beautiful things by working together until we destroyed one another through war, and that we're repeating that cycle again. So when they send-

Joe Rogan 13:47 Isn't that, like, drawing a lot of conclusions?

Gregg Braden 13:49 ... Yep.

Joe Rogan 13:49 Isn't there other possibilities for what happened to them?

Gregg Braden 13:51 Well, here's... This is where I'm going with this. When they, when they see what's on those temple walls, they're, they're gonna see inscriptions in languages that we already recognize, and, and that will be the, the smoking gun, like cuneiform-

Joe Rogan 14:04 B- but why do you think that?

Gregg Braden 14:06 Because this is what the ... m- this is what the, the researchers who are working on these projects right now, and they're combining this with so many of what the ancient texts have always told us. And this is where, you know, it gets into a really, uh, uh, kind of a sticky conversation, because it depends on how, you know, people interpret these things. I'm excited for it for this reason. I ... this is obviously no ordinary time in the history of our world, and, and they're pushing for war. We're on the, the verge of global war. What would it mean if we found on the surface, on the lunar surface, evidence of us, humans from another time, uh, leaving a message in our own languages, cuneiform, Sanskrit, uh, those kinds of things? It could be one of the most unifying factors right when we're on, on the, the precipice of, of war.

Joe Rogan 15:06 I completely agree, but we have to make a lot of leaps in order for that to be real. Like, we haven't seen any writing, so why would they assume that there's a bunch of different kinds of writing in different languages?

Gregg Braden 15:16 Um, they ... I, I actually think they have seen, um ...

Joe Rogan 15:19 Who's they?

Gregg Braden 15:20 Well, when our space program ... I think, uh, you've had guests on that talked about this in the past, I think. When our s- space program w- was active, uh, there were broadcasts from the lunar surface, uh, that were cut off, and astronauts had seen things that they were not allowed to see and not allowed to share.

Joe Rogan 15:42 That's what I heard.

Gregg Braden 15:44 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 15:44 It sounds fun.

Gregg Braden 15:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:45 It sounds really fun. I wanna believe that.

Gregg Braden 15:46 Well, and some-

Joe Rogan 15:47 But I don't.

Gregg Braden 15:47 ... some of them are leaving this world now, and on their, m- you know, on their deathbed, they're, they can't believe that this hasn't been made, made public already. So there have been, you know, recordings and videos and things, and I, I think they're authentic.

Joe Rogan 16:01 Right.

Gregg Braden 16:01 I think they're authentic.

Joe Rogan 16:01 But this does it. There's like ... We haven't got boots on the ground in Cydonia, right? So, like, how ...

Gregg Braden 16:06 No, not, not Cydon-

Joe Rogan 16:07 Of, of course.

Gregg Braden 16:07 Cydonia is Mars.

Joe Rogan 16:08 Well, I ... exactly. So how are they seeing these inscriptions? Are you saying these inscriptions are on the moon?

Gregg Braden 16:13 Yeah, lunar surface. I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 16:14 Oh, l- okay.

Gregg Braden 16:15 Yeah, lunar surface.

Joe Rogan 16:15 All right, I was confused. I was confused. So these astronauts are saying that on the surface of the moon, they saw writing.

Gregg Braden 16:23 They've seen structures.

Joe Rogan 16:24 Structures.

Gregg Braden 16:25 Massive structures that-

Joe Rogan 16:26 But what about the writing, like ...

Gregg Braden 16:29 ... were there. They, uh ... (laughs) There were reports that they had seen the writing, but we can't verify those. We can't verify those.

Joe Rogan 16:38 Okay.

Gregg Braden 16:39 So ...

Joe Rogan 16:39 So this is just, uh, pothead talk. (laughs)

Gregg Braden 16:42 Well, y- you know, yes and no. I mean-

Joe Rogan 16:43 K- kind of. A little bit. A little bit, because we d- if there's no evidence at all that ... th- there's e- there's not even an interview with a guy who talks about, "When I was on the moon, I saw writing."

Gregg Braden 16:54 W- well, then this is where you start going into the ancient texts ...

Joe Rogan 16:58 Okay.

Gregg Braden 16:58 ... and the traditions that are m- relating our, our relationship to intelligences from, from beyond this world.

Joe Rogan 17:07 Yes. There's a lot of that.

Gregg Braden 17:09 And there's, there's a lot of that, and-

Joe Rogan 17:10 There's a lot of that in various religions, too. It's r- it's very fascinating.

Gregg Braden 17:13 Well, this is, this is what I think's important. There ... It is in religions, but I think you can break out ... there are historical texts and there's religious texts. So if you're reading the Bible, m- there's religion and history in the Bible. If you're looking at Sumerian, uh, Akkadian, um, Babylonian texts from the Mesopotamian era, they're telling similar stories. And, and you've had guests on talking about this, w- where the stories are similar but their, the religion, uh, is not part of that. And so, uh, I think what we're doing, we're kinda beating around the bush, uh, to a, a deeper conversation here, and that's why I've hesitated a couple of times, because I, I just don't want us to, you know, to, um, to get so far down one side that-

Joe Rogan 17:58 Oh, don't worry about that.

Gregg Braden 17:59 (laughs) Okay.

Joe Rogan 17:59 That's what this show is all about.

Gregg Braden 18:00 Okay. All right.

Joe Rogan 18:01 This show is all ... We should call this show Rabbit Holes. (laughs)

Gregg Braden 18:05 (laughs) That's right.

Joe Rogan 18:05 'Cause people are always in the middle of talking about one thing and they pivot. It doesn't matter.

Gregg Braden 18:09 Well, I think this is all tied into disclosure, and what's happening, the reluctance to, to have the full disclosure.

Joe Rogan 18:14 Right. We've talked about that multiple times.

Gregg Braden 18:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:16 Y- I'm sure you ... Were you in that documentary, The Age of Disclosure?

Gregg Braden 18:21 No.

Joe Rogan 18:21 No. You've been in a lot of documentaries, and it's hard-

Gregg Braden 18:23 I have been in a lot, and it's, it's a-

Joe Rogan 18:25 It's hard to remember the ones you've been in and not.

Gregg Braden 18:25 I've been in a lot, and, uh, a lot of what I said was left on the cutting room floor.

Joe Rogan 18:29 Always. (laughs)

Gregg Braden 18:30 And th- there's a couple reasons for that. One thing I learned, Joe, and maybe you've learned this as well, if you're gonna be in a documentary, ask if you are on the front end of the filming or the back end of the filming.

Joe Rogan 18:42 ... what does that mean?

Gregg Braden 18:42 Here's the rea- are you one of the early interviews, or are you one of the later interviews?

Joe Rogan 18:46 Okay.

Gregg Braden 18:46 And here, here's the reason. They'll develop an arc in the storyline, and if you're early on, they're going to ask you questions to support that arc in that storyline. Five interviews down, somebody's gonna come on, and they're gonna introduce something and, and the producer is gonna say, "Ope, there's a new arc and new storyline." And now everything that you interviewed for, uh-

Joe Rogan 19:07 Oh.

Gregg Braden 19:07 ... may not be relevant in that conversation anymore.

Joe Rogan 19:10 Interesting.

Gregg Braden 19:10 So.

Joe Rogan 19:11 Well, (clicks tongue) I don't think you can control that, so. Gotta let that go.

Gregg Braden 19:15 You can ask. You just ask. You say, "Where am I in the, in the shooting process?" And if, if you're the first one, say, you know, "Maybe come back and, and (laughs) interview me."

Joe Rogan 19:23 Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer. Most hard beverages over-complicate everything. Happy Dad keeps it simple. Low carbonation, gluten-free, and only 100 calories in every can. Barbecues, golf rounds, hangin' by the pool, chillin' after work, Happy Dad is perfect for whatever you're up to. Everyone is drinking all these skinny cans loaded with sugar, but Happy Dad only has one gram of sugar in a normal can. You can grab a variety pack featuring lemon-lime, watermelon, pineapple, and wild cherry. And don't sleep on the grape collab with Death Row Records. It's a fan favorite for a reason. Happy Dad is now available nationwide in the USA and Canada. Go to your local liquor store or visit happydad.com. For a limited time, use the code ROGAN to buy one Happy Dad trucker hat and get one free. Enjoy a cold Happy Dad. Must be 21 plus. Please drink responsibly. Happy Dad Hard Seltzer and Tea, malt alcohol, Orange County, California. So-

Gregg Braden 20:33 A little bit later on.

Joe Rogan 20:34 ... uh, is it your belief that there was a civilization on Mars that were us, and that we migrated to Earth, and then eventually populated Earth? Is that what you're thinking? Or that we coexisted in both places?

Gregg Braden 20:49 (clicks tongue) W- I think we did. And...

Joe Rogan 20:53 It sounds so crazy to say-

Gregg Braden 20:55 Really?

Joe Rogan 20:55 ... and... Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. It does. Well, you, you, you probably travel in different circles. But I mean, to, to the rational, rational people, most people hear that and they go, "What? There were people on Mars?"

Gregg Braden 21:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:04 But, as time goes on, and more and more discoveries, we, we find out just about the structures that are on Earth and how old they might be, and the actual age of Homo sapiens, like how old we might actually be, where a lot... Or like they found that skull in China the other day that was, uh, they just... Have you seen this? It's a million-year-old Homo sapien skull, but apparently there's some debate about it. It's going, they're going back and forth. But at the very least, it's in the conversation of human beings possibly have existed, at least in this form, for a million years.

Gregg Braden 21:37 (clicks tongue)

Joe Rogan 21:37 Which is kinda nuts.

Gregg Braden 21:39 Yeah, I-

Narrator 21:40 We actually found that the other day.

Joe Rogan 21:41 Oh, uh, the, the, the story was published-

Narrator 21:43 They found that in 19...

Joe Rogan 21:44 ... the other day, right?

Narrator 21:44 Yeah, but they found that in 1990.

Joe Rogan 21:44 What?

Narrator 21:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:46 What, I found it the other day?

Gregg Braden 21:47 No.

Joe Rogan 21:47 So I read it on the BBC the other day.

Narrator 21:48 I, I know. I was going through the story yesterday. What happened was some team reconstructed parts of that skull with new methods that are now available.

Gregg Braden 21:58 Oh.

Narrator 21:58 And they suggest that it could, say, that it was... I think it was actually one of those we've talked about, the big head, the Longi.

Joe Rogan 22:04 Oh, right.

Narrator 22:05 That's one of those, is what they're saying.

Gregg Braden 22:06 Yeah, one of the Elongati-

Joe Rogan 22:07 Oh. That, that one's fascinating, 'cause that's a larger human being.

Gregg Braden 22:10 Uh, was it Homo sapiens?

Joe Rogan 22:12 Y- yeah, well, they're a-

Narrator 22:12 It's like a branch from the Denisovans, it's one of those.

Gregg Braden 22:14 Right. So this, yeah, this is the thing. They-

Joe Rogan 22:16 N'No... W- What is it called? N'No... Wha-

Narrator 22:19 I don't know. I get confused. I just know, I remember Longi was the thing that they were saying this all was.

Joe Rogan 22:24 Julien's.

Narrator 22:25 Yeah, okay, that is the other one. That's the, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:26 That's it. That's the big-headed one.

Gregg Braden 22:28 Uh, I'm s-

Joe Rogan 22:29 Anyway, point being.

Gregg Braden 22:30 I'm, I'm skeptical about those, because they find one fragment and there's a lot of in- interpretation that's going on there. The, the consensus has been, for a long time, that we, we appeared. Uh, I'm just gonna preface this by saying I, I'm a degreed geologist. I believe in evolution. Evolution is a fact. I've seen it in the fossil record for plants, animals, insects. Darwin's Theory of Evolution breaks down when it comes to humans, and it breaks down for this reason. Uh, we now can do what used to sound like science fiction. If you ever saw the f- the first Jurassic Park-

Joe Rogan 23:04 Mm-hmm.

Gregg Braden 23:04 ... where they pulled the DNA out of the, the fossilized remains of ancient forms of life. In the movie, they brought them back to life. I, to the best of my knowledge, we haven't done that. What we have done is we can extract that DNA from the bone marrow of fossilized remains of beings that we used to believe were our ancestors. And what's happening is, and th- this is a mind blower, we know that we didn't descend from Neanderthal. We shared the Earth with them, certainly, and, and some people have some Neanderthal DNA because of that, but we did not descend from them, and we didn't descend from many of the other forms that you see on those traditional trees. You know, you've got modern-

Joe Rogan 23:43 Right.

Gregg Braden 23:43 ... humans here and all these, all these lines connecting. But if you look close at the lines, most of them are broken lines, Joe, because there's no solid evidence. It's called inferred or speculative relationships. Uh, it's like, I've got, I've, I've got a picture of it here if we wanna see that. But, but what they're showing is that, um, we showed up about 200,000 years ago, and now there's a little evidence that it may have been back as, as far as 300,000. But the, the kicker is that we can now look at the DNA and reverse engineer it and say, "What did it take to get where we are?" And what scientists are now calling the, the smoking gun, and there's st- still a lot of controversy around this, is, uh, human chromosome number 2. Human chromosome number 2, the second-largest chromosome in, in every cell of the body, it's got about 1,200 or so genes in that chromosome. And just one of them, uh, gene TBR1, is responsible for most of the brain that we have for our neocortex. So, our human-ness, our empathy, sympathy.... compassion, love, our cognitive abilities, uh, the mirror neurons. All these kinds of things are because that one gene ... Well, where this gets really interesting is, where did chromosome 2 come from? And scientists have the answer, but they don't like the answer, because chromosome 2 is the product of, of a fusion. Uh, Proceedings from National Academy of Sciences, the volume Genetics, says this very clearly: "We conclude that the origin of human chromosome 2, uh, is the product of an ancestral fusion, a telomere-to-telomere fusion of two preexisting chromosomes." That does not happen in nature. It can't happen in nature. So here's, here's what they're saying. You got two fully, two fully form-... fully functional chromosomes, and, uh, on the end are the, the telomeres, uh, that protect those chromosomes when the cells divide, and that's why they're on the end. They take the hit. It's a trauma in a cell when those, when those chromosomes are pulled apart and some of the DNA doesn't make it. So nature puts telomeres on the end to take the hit so the good DNA remains intact, and that's why it's on the ends. Human chromosome 2, those telomeres are right in the middle of the chromosome where they shouldn't be, because those chromosomes were fused together, uh, about, uh, 200,000 years ago, when we-

Narrator 26:21 Whoa.

Gregg Braden 26:21 ... when we appeared. And if that was the only one, you could say, "Well, maybe it's a fluke." Chromosome number seven. I'm a musician when I ... I'm not doing what I'm doing now, long before I was a, a researcher. And one of the things I always used to, to wonder about, you know, we share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees, but you don't hear chimpanzees sing, you know? You're never gonna hear a chimpanzee sing Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven.

Narrator 26:47 Mm.

Gregg Braden 26:47 And you ask, "Well, why not?" I mean, 98% of the DNA is ... we share with them, but it's because of, of chromosome 7. And for about 175 million years, this chromosome was stable in all primates, all of them, orangutan, gorilla, chimps, all the primates. All of a sudden, there's this little mm- ... this little switch of a couple of genes that connected our tongue and our brain and our jaw, and we can sing, and we can have complex speech like no other form of life. It happened 200,000 years ago. What are the odds of that happening when chromosome 2-

Narrator 27:25 Hmm.

Gregg Braden 27:25 ... is, is fusing? So I've b- ... I've worked with scientists, uh, my whole life, uh, both in academia and in, uh, in the corporations. I was a, a problem solver for Fortune 500 companies, uh, through the late '70s, '80s, and, and '90s. And one of the things I've seen about scientists is, is fascinating, is d- ... m- ... that there is, is one way of thinking that says we take all the evidence and we force it into a preexisting model, like all the new discoveries, trying to force that into Darwin's theory of evolution, or we allow the new evidence to lead to the story that it tells. And this is where science is stuck right now, because the old theory, Darwin's theory of evolution is in trouble, and it's ... the DNA is, is the reason it's in trouble. It's no longer superficial or, you know, fossil evidence, that ... I mean, the DNA is telling the story. Uh, and the new story suggests, at the very least, uh, a scientist has to say there's been some kind of intelligent intervention. And this is where science gets stuck, because science says it's not equipped to talk about any kind of an intelligent intervention, but that ties in to everything that's happening now, you know, if we're gonna talk about ancient civilizations, or if we're gonna talk about we've been here before. Are we gonna talk about, uh, you know, what it is that is the disclosure? All of those kinds of things. So science is kind of at a crossroads right now. There ... m- ... there is something called the standard model, and that applies to evolution. And what the evidence suggests is th- ... we are the product of an intelligent and an intentional act. Who or what that is, (sniffs) that's where it gets ... it, it can get sticky. Uh, the universe. W- we've had physicists on here, and, and really good physicists that ... and some of them are not aware of some of the new information that's come out now. But when I was in school back in the '50s, '60s, and, and '70s, I was taught that the universe is dead, inert, just cold, uh, and we happen to be lucky biology, you know? That's, that's kind of what they used to teach. Now, physicists are suggesting universe is alive, it is intelligent, and it's conscious. And one of the reasons for this ... And you can go to the NASA website and you can, you can look at some of these images, uh, the, uh, James Webb Space Telescope. They're showing galaxies that are in proximity of, of something that is dangerous to them, like an exploding, you know, whatever. And what they'll do is they'll create jets from the center, um, b- ... both direction, these jets that actually move them out of the way. And I, I talk about s- ... I've got a new book and I talk about that in, in the new book, uh, so it's documented in, in the book. They actually move them to a, a safer place. And you say, "Well, maybe that's a fluke. It's a one-off." And now ... but they have found that. They have found it happens time and time again.

Narrator 30:34 So space itself is conscious in some form?

Gregg Braden 30:36 Conscious ... Okay, conscious and intelligent, and those are two, two very different things. But that is a very different story. If, if our universe is alive and intelligent and conscious, and we are the product of an intentional act-... we solve our problems, Joe, and we build our world based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves. We use our resources. We, um, we apply our technology based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves. And we have been

Gregg Braden 31:07 taught that we are a flawed form of life, that, uh, we are powerless victims of the world around us. And because of that ... This is gonna lead into this whole conversation. Because of that, we need a savior, and that savior is being touted as technology. So now, we are living at this time where we're being encouraged, indoctrinated, coerced, mandated sometimes, to embrace the technology outside of our bodies, because we have been conditioned to believe that we are, are a broken, flawed form of life. And you're seeing this play out in the AI conversation. You're seeing it play out in, um, what's called the trans-human movement, the, the intentional movement to replace our humanness with computer chips in the brain, chemicals in the blood, RFID chips under the skin. Uh, and it's all playing out right now, Joe. I mean, this, uh, this can't go on for, you know, another 20 years, because it's moving too fast. This is the generation, right? And this, I'm very passionate about this. The experts are saying unless we change our trajectory right now, we very probably are the last generation of pure humans that the world will ever know. That by 2032, when you go to the supermarket or go to the airport, the people you talk to will be some hybrid, maybe some more and some less, but will have some kind of technology embedded into their, into their bodies. I was on a panel recently, and I was with a group of scientists, and they said, "Well, what's wrong with that? You know, isn't that the next step? Isn't that our, our natural step in, in, uh, in our evolution?" And I said, "No, it is not, and here's the reason. When we replace our natural biology with synthetics, our natural abilities begin to atrophy." Cells will ... Let me just give a perfect example. Um, y- ... We used to be taught ... (laughs) When I was in school, I was taught that we're, we're born into this world with a fixed number of brain cells. And every, every beer I drank in college-

Narrator 33:23 Yeah, I remember that.

Gregg Braden 33:24 ... all right, you're, I'm gonna lose some brain cells. Well, what I'm gonna say next is not a reason to drink the beer.

Narrator 33:28 (laughs)

Gregg Braden 33:29 But what they found, there's a part of the human brain, it's the hippocampus, that is producing new brain cells until the last breath we take on this, this Earth. There's a catch, and the catch tells the story. If we do not use those new brain cells in a meaningful way within about seven to 10 days, the body says, "Oh, you didn't use it, so you must not need it," and those cells will atrophy and die.

Narrator 33:56 That makes sense, 'cause I always feel dumber when I come back from vacation. (laughs)

Gregg Braden 34:00 (laughs) Are you drinking beer on the, on vacation?

Narrator 34:03 Not this time.

Gregg Braden 34:04 No.

Narrator 34:04 But sometimes, yeah. Well-

34:05 In the octagon, it only takes one second to change everything, one punch, one choke, one shock no one saw coming. And at UFC 320, DraftKings Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the UFC, puts you right in the middle of the action. Ankalaev versus Pereira 2 headlines a stacked night of fights. New customers, this one is for you. Bet just $5, and if your bet wins, you'll get paid out in $200 instantly. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use the code ROGAN, that's code ROGAN, to turn five bucks into 200 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

34:46 Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, call 877-8HOPEINY or text HOPEINY to 467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Fees may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum -500 odds required. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co/audio.

Gregg Braden 35:20 But that principle ... So i- it's called use it or lose it. We've all heard that. That principle applies to every system in the human body. It applies to our cognitive abilities, to our reproductive system. And when we replace our natural biology with these synthetics, this is exactly what's happening. Uh, and it ... We've been doing this long enough. Virtual reality goggles, for example, they've been around long enough. Psychology Magazine has published article after article. If you take young kids with malleable brains, parents are busy, they wanna entertain them, so they sit them on the floor, put a virtual VR goggle on, and, you know, three or four hours a day and say, "Hey." So here's the kid. They're just sitting there like this, and they're seeing images that they would never see in their backyard, and colors, and sounds, and situations. But here's the thing: it's all being done for them. They are not using their imagination like you and I did when we were kids. They're not using their imagination, so, so now, what's happening is, there are parts of their brain that are atrophying. So they are, uh, diminished cognitive abilities, diminished language skills, diminished communication skills. But listen to this. The visual cortex, which is what they're using to watch everything, is enlarged in the brain. The visual cortex gets bigger because that's what ...

Narrator 36:44 That's what's getting exercised.

Gregg Braden 36:44 That's what they're doing. Now, because of epigenetics, all of that can be reversed when the kids are put into a healthy environment, go outside and play with your friends.... you know, they're young enough that they can reverse that.

Joe Rogan 36:57 Right.

Gregg Braden 36:57 Uh, I spent a lot of time with shamans in, um, in the Yucatan, and in, um, in Peru, Costa Rica, places like that. And they've, they found the same thing. Uh, the shamans that maybe do, you know, v- 5,000 ayahuasca journeys, because they're leading groups, and every time the group does it, they do it, so, you know, they're doing that. Their visual cortexes are, are enlarged, but their other abilities are diminished. Now, if you're a shaman in the jungle, maybe that's no big deal. But if you're a software engineer in Silicon Valley, writing code for nuclear triggers, and on the weekends, you know, this is what you're doing every weekend, chronically, uh, it could be a problem.

Joe Rogan 37:42 Have they done studies on that, where they've shown the declined ability, or-

Gregg Braden 37:46 Yes. Yes.

Joe Rogan 37:46 ... cognitive function, due to psychedelic use?

Gregg Braden 37:49 Uh, yes.

Joe Rogan 37:50 Really?

Gregg Braden 37:50 They have. Um-

Joe Rogan 37:51 With any specific psychedelics?

Gregg Braden 37:54 Ayahuasca was one. And, and I hesitate, because there are different, different kinds of, of ayahuasca-

Joe Rogan 37:59 Mm-hmm.

Gregg Braden 37:59 ... different, uh, that's called a brew, different kinds of, of brew.

Joe Rogan 38:02 So is the idea that people are overdoing it, they're doing it too much?

Gregg Braden 38:05 Well, I wanna be clear about this. One-off, I don't think there's any, any problem, if it's done therapeutically. Uh, I'll give you a perfect example. I, I was speaking at a facility. I was invited as a guest speaker to go with a cohort, uh, through seven-day programs. And part of that program was ayahuasca. Part of it was breath work. Part of it was body work. Part of it was natural, uh, raw food, uh, you know, the, the whole gamut. And there was a woman and her husband who came, and they were both healthy. They couldn't have a baby. They couldn't conceive. Her eggs were good. His sperm was good. The doctors couldn't figure it out. And they said, "There's, there's something else going on." So they came to, to this program. And the woman, and th- uh, this, one, one time, she had, uh, a plant medicine experience. And in that experience, a being came to her, and reached in and pulled her heart out, and it was all black, and had stuff all over it. And, and the being cleaned it off, and put it back in, did the same thing with the womb. And she had had, she had been traumatized as a child, had been abused, uh, had not resolved that, apparently, uh, you know, on a deep emotional level. And so there was a part of her that felt that she wasn't worthy to conceive, and it was being, it was shown up that way. And in her plant medicine experience, this is what worked for her, and they, they conceived shortly aft- I think they conceived that week while they were there, when they, they did the numbers backwards. Now, as a scientist, can you prove that? Or, you can say there's a high correlation between the time that an individual has an experience like that, and when, you know, when they successfully conceive. But that's a one-off, and I, I don't, uh, therapeutically, I don't think there's anything ... it's, it's not gonna be harmful one-off. It's the chronic use-

Joe Rogan 39:59 Right.

Gregg Braden 40:00 ... for recreation, that's where we get into trouble.

Joe Rogan 40:01 Well, it seems to me, the people that, uh, I have encountered that use it maybe a little bit too much, uh, they seem to have a, a loss of a perception of how other people see them.

Gregg Braden 40:14 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:14 They, they, they get slippery. Like, the world gets slippery. They, they act weird, and they don't know they're acting weird.

Gregg Braden 40:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:22 And it seems like there's, like, a, a, a p- a piece of the interface has been damaged, if that makes any sense.

Gregg Braden 40:29 It makes total sense. And, uh, I ne- no matter where we go in this conversation, to start with, it's gonna bring us back to, to the same, to the same place. And I can show you exactly where that slippiness comes from in just a moment.

Joe Rogan 40:42 Okay.

Gregg Braden 40:42 When, when we get there. Because, and I'll just, I'll just say it right now, there is a part of us that doesn't live inside the body, but that the body tunes to. And I'm using that, uh, from an engineering perspective, that the body tunes to through the antenna of neurons and DNA. And this is where, uh, it gets, r- uh, fascinating conversation. Scientists now, there, uh, a segment of scientists are beginning to look at the human body as more than soft, sticky, wet, gooey, mushy, you know, cells and, and skin. Joe, they're actually looking at us from an IT perspective. Now, this sounds crazy, but they're looking at the human body from the perspective of information passing through and communicating with the world around us, that we are such an advanced form of life. We're not primitive computer chips and wires and chemicals. We're more than that. We're neurons, and cell membranes, and ion potentials moving across cell walls. And the ability for us to self-regulate what is now being called soft, we are a soft technology, the ability to do that is the core of all the ancient and cherished spiritual traditions in the mystery schools, how we go about regulating this, this technology. So now, let, let me just break that down-

Joe Rogan 42:20 Okay.

Gregg Braden 42:20 ... uh, a little bit. Uh, I mentioned during the Cold War, it was a very civilized war. I remember it was 1980s, I was, uh, I was working, I was civilian working on c- uh, contract for the DoD, and with a civilian security, I had a yellow badge. It wasn't a high s- uh, secret clearance. It wasn't, like, top secret or anything. But we had access to research papers that were coming in from the Soviet Union. Even though we were at war, on one level, the scientists were still cooperating. And the Soviets were the first that sent these diagrams of a human cell-... as a circuit diagram. Now, this is a mind-blower. I mean, it wasn't a metaphor. Literally, the, every human cell is a gated circuit. It's got an input, an output. It has transistor, the, the equivalent of transistors and resistors and capacitors. Every cell produces about .07 volts of electrical potential, and you say, "Well, that's not very much," (clears throat) and I agree, and then you do the math. We got about 50 trillion cells in the body, 50 trillion cells times .07 volts is about three, three and a half trillion volts of, of electrical potential in the human body. Every cell is the equivalent of, uh, of a transistor. Every cell is the equivalent of a resistor, of a capacitor. We're photon emitters, and there's a whole science now about reading the photon emissions from humans, and we're photon receivers, and we store information just like a computer chip, and, uh, this goes on. Blockchain technology. Our DNA stores information, and the way that it's described is that it is secure, it's transparent, and it's immutable, and it's distributed. And those are exactly the terms being used for blockchain technology today, because blockchain technology in the world actually mirrors the technology of human DNA. We have a s- a record, and you and I, every human body, we have a record of every successful genetic transaction for our species. It is transparent, it's immutable. If you know how to look for it, it's not hidden. It's secure and it's distributed across all the nodes that we call humans. This goes on and on and on. The, the point is that we are the only form of life that can consciously self-regulate all of this technology and apply it to our healing, to our intuition, to our resilience, to change, to any of these kinds of things, and the ability to do that is the secret that has been hidden within the mystery schools, within the religions, uh, and it is the reason for everything you're seeing happening in the world today. There's a concerted effort, Joe, to deny us our ability to express our humanness, and part of that effort is replacing our humanness with technology. So, that's a big statement, and I, I know we'll-

Joe Rogan 45:32 But that's fairly recent, right? The, the effort to stop people from expressing their human, uh, humanness. That's not recent.

Gregg Braden 45:41 Well, so now, now we're gonna get to the crux of it.

Joe Rogan 45:45 Okay.

Gregg Braden 45:45 So here's, uh, and I wasn't sure how we'd get into this. I lost my mom to COVID, uh, just a couple years ago, and right before she died, she looked at me and she said, "Greg, the world is going to hell in a handbasket." (laughs) And I always got the 'going to hell' part. I never knew exactly what the 'handbasket'" (laughs) meant.

Joe Rogan 46:06 I never understood that phrase. What is that phrase?

Gregg Braden 46:09 I, I, I don't know, but I knew what she meant. And what she meant was, it, that the world looked scary to her, Joe-

Joe Rogan 46:14 Mm-hmm.

Gregg Braden 46:14 ... and it does to a lot of people. It looked like things were happening for no reason, for no a- apparent, there was no apparent structure. It looked like things were just popping off here and there, out of control. It looked crazy, and she said, she said, you know, "This isn't my world anymore." Well, we are in the middle of a process. The process has a beginning, it has an end. We're in it. The only way out of it is to go through it, and that's why I'm excited to have this conversation with you. The two, two parallel themes that are playing out on our, in our world right now, and we, we can explore both of them. One, there is a concerted effort for the first time in the history of our world to remake, the stated intent, to remake our world and to remake our bodies. Now, we've never had the technology to do that, but we, we do now. So, the, the intent to remake the world and remake our bodies, that's one conversation. The other conversation, the best science of the modern world is showing us that we're not what we've been told. We're so much more than we've been led to believe, and we're about to give our humanness away to the technology before we even know what it means to be human if we remake our bodies. So, this is, and this is in this generation. This, this cannot drag on for, you know, five years, 10 years, because all the tech is being pushed on us so quickly. I'm a systems thinker, and rather than get into the weeds of the Democrats and the Republicans, and liberals and conservatives, and, which is all important, and we can have that conversation, but there's something much, much bigger that's playing out here, and it literally, it, we're in a battle for our humanness. And if we don't claim our humanness, there are powers and forces that will stop at nothing to deny us our humanness. One of the reasons they're denying it is what we just said, because it's through our humanness that we have these extraordinary potentials that empower us as sovereign, critically thinking, self-regulating human beings. And it's very difficult to play out the agendas that are proposed for the world upon populations that are sovereign, critically thinking, self-regulating human beings. So, just like-

Joe Rogan 48:42 Well, the problem seems to be-

Gregg Braden 48:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:43 ... power and control.

Gregg Braden 48:44 It is.

Joe Rogan 48:44 That's the problem. And the only way to have power and control over people is to limit their ability to express themselves, and then keep them at each other's throats.

Gregg Braden 48:53 Well, that's-

Joe Rogan 48:53 And that, that is, those are two things that ha- are happening all the time with, with social media.

Gregg Braden 48:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:59 The people that manage social media are consistently trying to limit the reach of people that have-... voices or narratives that don't approve, that they don't approve of. And-

Gregg Braden 49:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:11 ... uh, ultimately, what w- you're seeing in other countries is moving to digital IDs. This is just implemented in Europe-

Gregg Braden 49:18 Yep.

Joe Rogan 49:18 ... and in the UK.

Gregg Braden 49:19 Yep.

Joe Rogan 49:19 You're seeing it in a lot of places where you're gonna have to need that to work and vote and travel.

Gregg Braden 49:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:24 And, and it'll be even more of a constriction on your ability to express yourself, particularly when you think about the UK, which has had more than 12,000 arrests for very mild social media posts.

Gregg Braden 49:37 Isn't that crazy? I mean, I'm-

Joe Rogan 49:38 Criticizing-

Gregg Braden 49:38 ... I can't believe that. I, I, I've been watching this stuff play out.

Joe Rogan 49:41 Fascinating, and the, the, the fact that the, our mainstream media is relatively silent on this is insane. You're, you're seeing a, a complete, total attack on one of the most fundamental principles of the Western world, which is your ability to express yourself and your ability to call out that you think that the policies that are being implemented in your country are destructive. That, that's, people have always been able to do that. These people are not calling for violence.

Gregg Braden 50:10 Yep.

Joe Rogan 50:10 They're not ... They're being arrested for wild things. People are being arrested for liking posts.

Gregg Braden 50:16 Yep.

Joe Rogan 50:16 They're being eve- arres- some people were in- investigated for viewing posts. 12,000 people arrested by the police in the UK, the same place that just implemented digital ID. I mean, this is an Orwell nightmare coming to life right in front of our face and no one's flinching. No one in America is freaking out-

Gregg Braden 50:38 Huh.

Joe Rogan 50:38 ... about what's happening in the UK at all. I mean, you get people online that are kinda freaked out by it, but they're way more freaked out by nonsensical things like w- whether or not what Jimmy Kimmel said in his monologue was offensive.

Gregg Braden 50:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:51 They'll, they'll go to the ends of the Earth to fight that, like-

Gregg Braden 50:55 Well, they're programmed. That's the programming.

Joe Rogan 50:57 Well, it's easy. That's a, that's a simple thing and it doesn't freak you out. Like, if you could get Jimmy Kimmel canceled, fuck him. If you could do that, like, you have some power. You, you have power. But w- you really don't. If you look at what's going on, like, in the UK, uh, what, what they're, what they're learning over there is that they are in a tyrannical government and it's slowly but surely ... It's got, it's got its back, it's got the hooks in, and it's putting the rear naked choke in. It's got them locked up.

Gregg Braden 51:25 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:25 They've gotta do something about that.

Gregg Braden 51:26 Why, why do you think that's happening?

Joe Rogan 51:28 Why?

Gregg Braden 51:28 Hm.

Joe Rogan 51:28 Because of what we talked about, power. Power and control and resources, and a very limited amount of people are controlling a n- a huge amount of people. A limited amount of people with fantastic access to resources and the ability, for the first time in human history, where you have individuals that are in charge of companies that are po- th- they can shift the entire narrative-

Gregg Braden 51:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:50 ... of the world.

Gregg Braden 51:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:51 So they're doing it through these tech companies for the first time ever, totally u- unanticipated. 20 years ago, didn't exist.

Gregg Braden 51:58 So I'm saying for the first time, the tech allows for the remaking of our humanness, that-

Joe Rogan 52:04 Well, it allows for new methods of control and resource extraction. And we found out-

Gregg Braden 52:08 Yep.

Joe Rogan 52:08 ... that data itself is a fantastic resource and worth billions and billions of dollars. So some of the richest companies that have ever existed, they're data companies now.

Gregg Braden 52:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:17 T- that's kinda nuts and that's like a ... We miss that. But this is all the same thing that happens with kings and with emperors. It's control. You gotta limit the people's ability to r- rebel, limit their ability to gather resources, keep them at each other's throats ideologically, keep them fighting over the dumbest shit possible, including the color of their skin.

Gregg Braden 52:40 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:40 Fight over everything. What, what, what gods you believe in, what foods you eat, what fucking computer you use.

Gregg Braden 52:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:46 Keep them fighting over everything and then get social media bots to continue that fight going all day long. Meanwhile, closer and closer and closer to total control of the population, where they're even openly stating it. Hillary Clinton said in an interview, "If we lose ... If, uh, w- we can't control social media, we lose control."

Gregg Braden 53:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:09 Like, yeah, you're not supposed to have control over other human beings.

Gregg Braden 53:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:13 Yeah, you're gonna lose the thing you're not supposed to have. An elected official is supposed to be a representative for the people. You're supposed to be d- a person who's a public servant, where you go out and you do this incredibly moral and ethical and beautiful thing where you sacrifice your time for the betterment of your community and your society-

Gregg Braden 53:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:33 ... instead of just a means of extracting fantastic wealth that is totally unprecedented and that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Gregg Braden 53:41 So-

Joe Rogan 53:41 You shouldn't be able to d- take that fucking job and then immediately go and start working for some Fortune 500 company making billions of dollars. Like, that's crazy, if you're a, a government employee and, uh, and involved in any regulatory fashion and then you go and work for the very industry you were regulating. Or if you're a, a person who runs for office and you get in office and then all of a sudden you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars when your salary's $170,000 a year. Like, it's, it's real obvious what's going on. It's just wealth extraction.

Gregg Braden 54:12 It is.

Joe Rogan 54:12 And the way th- the way to do that is with control. You have to have control over people and you have to be able to censor them 'cause they're gonna call that shit out.

Gregg Braden 54:19 Well, everyth- everything you're ... Uh, yes, and everything you're talking about is part of a bigger picture. So how deep you wanna go?

Joe Rogan 54:25 All the way to the bottom.

Gregg Braden 54:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:28 D- so d- but do you think the bigger picture is natural? Like-

Gregg Braden 54:31 No.

Joe Rogan 54:31 ... these are natural patterns that human beings follow when they get power and control over people?

Gregg Braden 54:36 Y-

Joe Rogan 54:36 Because that, that does seem to be the case. It's just on a much grander scale now.

Gregg Braden 54:41 I think what you're talking about ... Power and control, lust and greed, there are individuals that have a propensity for those things that are gonna fall into those roles very easily. They're pawns. They don't even know that they are supporting something much darker that's happening.

Joe Rogan 54:59 And what do you think is the source of this much darker thing?

Gregg Braden 55:01 Well ... Okay, so this will open the door to answering-... Cedonia-

Joe Rogan 55:06 Okay.

Gregg Braden 55:06 ... and everything else that we've done. So we're not, we're not totally beating around the bush. We're gonna bring this-

Joe Rogan 55:11 Okay.

Gregg Braden 55:11 ... all together. Uh, I wasn't sure how deep you wanted to go with this, Joe. And, and what I'll say is, w- I'm gonna acknowledge things we're talking about, for a lot of people, is a very different way of thinking, and it certainly is different from what I was conditioned. I was born and raised in northern Missouri, a rural community. Um, my first degrees in geology and computer science. This is a very different way of thinking, and it's where the evidence is leading us. W- what the, our most ancient and cherished texts, whether you're talking about religion or, or not religion, they say that we are born into, uh, an ancient struggle that began long before we ever got here. Uh, and for lack of a better term, and this is where words, words are powerful and they carry a lot of baggage, it's, it's a struggle between good and evil. All right? We're born into this struggle between good and evil. It's not a religious struggle. When we talk about evil, I think it's important to quantify what that evil is, and to do that, we have to talk about who we are. There's something inside of us, Joe, and this is where science is stuck. This is where science and spirituality come together in a beautiful way, and this is where language may fail me, so I'm gonna do my best. There is something inside of us that is so rare and so precious and so ancient and sacred and powerful and beautiful, that there are forces that have, in history, and are currently working to, to deny us access to this force. The force is the reason for the ancient texts, the spiritual traditions, and there, there's two ways that we, we can have this conversation. You can say we can do it from a biblical perspective and talk about angels and demons; we could do it from a high-tech perspective and talk about an advanced civilization from another world in another time, and you're talking about the same thing, exactly the same conversation. As to our origin, uh, there was an intentional intervention that created us. Biblical traditions are giving us one perspective. The Mesopotamian texts are telling us that we are the product of the blood of, uh, of a higher form of life, and now the archaeological sites are revealing that those what's reported in those Sumerian texts actually existed. Uh, I w- I was a member back in the '90s-

Joe Rogan 57:50 What, specifically, did they report in those-

Gregg Braden 57:53 Well-

Joe Rogan 57:53 ... archaeologically?

Gregg Braden 57:54 The, well, let me say, I, I was a, in the '90s, I was a, a member of a, an organization called BAR, Biblical Archaeology Review.

Joe Rogan 58:02 Okay.

Gregg Braden 58:02 And th- the idea is that you, you follow the in- the, the instructions in the text, and you go someplace and you dig, and there is what the text is talking about from 3,000 years ago. So they use that to try to validate the events, not, not the r- religiosity but the events. In the Mesopotamian texts, when we talk about the king's list, you've had guests on that talked about the, the king's list, um, in Sumeria, that talks, it literally says, "When, when the kingship descended from the heavens to the earth," and then it gives the list of the kings, uh, and then there was another flood. And they evacuated and then they came back and then they created humans. And it, it actually lines up date-wise with the 200, 250,000 years of when we were created, but there's no religion involved. Um, so two different languages. Are we talking about an advanced civilization, uh, and our relationship to them a long time ago? Are we talking about angels and demons from a long time ago? Are we talking about, uh, beings with, uh, with wings in the religious tradition or, or when you look at the Sumerian traditions, the kings all had wings as well?

Joe Rogan 59:16 Right.

Gregg Braden 59:16 But they're telling the same story, and what the story is, is that we are an intent- we're the product of an intentional act, and we were imbued with a force that was greater even than those who created us, and that there has been an effort from that time to deny us that force.

Joe Rogan 59:34 Well, how do you know that our force is greater than those that created us?

Gregg Braden 59:37 I don't know this-

Joe Rogan 59:38 Where, where are you getting that from?

Gregg Braden 59:39 That is from, uh, if you're familiar with the Gnostic texts, uh, in the Gnostic texts, the... So the, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1946, '47, the oldest unedited records of the Old Testament. Push, push the date back 1,000 years. The... In '45 and '46, the oldest records of the New Testament and the texts that were excluded were discovered in a little village along the Nile in Egypt called Nag Hammadi. Uh, it's, can I just tell? It's a crazy story.

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 Sure.

Gregg Braden 1:00:14 Th- there's not much firewood, uh, along the Nile in Egypt and there was a, a woman, uh, who needed kindling to feed her family, to build the fires to feed her family and heat their home, and she, she told her son, "Go find some kindling," and he was very resourceful. There's no trees, so he found an old tomb, and in the tomb were clay vases, and he opened those vases and there were, uh, documents that were very dry and brittle and made great kindling.

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 Oh, no.

Gregg Braden 1:00:43 And we don't know how many were lost, uh, before the authorities were noted, but right now there are 13 bound-

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 They, they cooked a bunch of them?

Gregg Braden 1:00:52 They burned and they used them for fuel.

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Oh my God.

Gregg Braden 1:00:55 But, but, so here, but here's, here's what's left. What's left, there were, uh, 13 bound books representing over 50 texts. They were the oldest records of the New Testament-... uh, and they were the records that were excluded by the, the Catholic Church.

Narrator 1:01:15 Is there any images of these books?

Gregg Braden 1:01:17 Yeah.

Narrator 1:01:18 Jamie, can you find those? I want to take a look at them.

Gregg Braden 1:01:18 Well, I've got them on my... I brought this for you. (laughs)

Narrator 1:01:21 All right. Oh, Jamie found them.

Gregg Braden 1:01:23 If you want to look at them but... Yeah. So there's, there's the 13, uh, bound texts. So among these were things like the Gospel of Thomas, which is considered the second most heretical book, uh, in the Nag Hammadi Library. There's the Gospel of John, also called the Secret Book of John, also called the Apocryphon of John, which is considered the first most heretical book. Uh, there are books from Gnostic women. Thunder Perfect Mind is a book by a Gnostic woman that's in there. The Gospel of James is in there. So these, these... And I'll be very clear, uh, if you had Wes Huff here, who I know you've had before, and I think he's, he's a brilliant scholar, uh, he would say that these are not accepted. Um, because of... They're not accepted by the Church because of dating and because of... You know, there, there's a lot of reasons. But there's a lot of new research showing that, uh, that these are worthy of, um, of exploring, uh, w- with the same validity that we give to the other texts that we're seeing now.

Narrator 1:02:31 What are they dated to?

Gregg Braden 1:02:33 They, uh, they're dated late 1st, early 2nd century, somewhere right around there. Some, some of them later. Um, the, the, uh, the Book of John, the Secret Book of John, what makes it so exceptional is that he believes... He said that it, it was dictated to him by, uh, Jesus of Nazareth after his crucifixion. So it wasn't before, it came after. But the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Thomas is one of the... probably the most controversial. It's 114 sayings, um, that were recorded by, uh, by Thomas. And the book says Didymus Thomas, uh, was, uh, was the name. And it's almost like... I- it's different from all the other books in that it is... each saying is, is a teaching unto itself. And what he is saying, uh, are, um... Again, I'm hesitating 'cause we're just covering so much ground here. Uh, what... Yeshua was his name. What he was teaching was so profound for his time. There were outer teachings and inner teachings. The outer teachings were for the masses and is primarily what you see in the Gospels. The inner teachings were for those initiates that could really understand what it was he was saying, and that's what the Gospel of Thomas, uh, appears to be. It did come from a later time. I don't think it invalidates that, uh, uh... you know, what it is that, that is being said in there.

Narrator 1:04:10 What is being said that's so controversial?

Gregg Braden 1:04:11 Well, there's 114 sayings in there, but the bottom line, and this is one I think w- that is probably one of the most well-known, where he says, "What you have, what you bring forth from within you will save you, and what you don't bring forth f- from within you will destroy you." He's saying there's a power inside of us that has to be expressed, and these texts are all about how we awaken that, that power. Okay? So the name... I'm gonna use a word and then I'll, I'll define it. The name that is given to that power traditionally is called divinity, but it has nothing to do with religion. So that association is made because there are schools of divinity that make that, and they're, they're great schools, they do great things. But the contemporary definition of divinity, I, I love this, the ability to transcend perceived limitations. And that's it. So the ability to trans- to transcend, to become more than perceived... Joe, you and I, our listeners, we are, we are living limits that probably aren't even real. We're living within limits that we have been indoctrinated to accept about ourselves. Divinity is our ability to become the best version of ourselves. Expressions of divinity, imagination. I mean, no other form of life can do what we do with imagination, and I, I wanna talk about that in just a moment. It's more than just a picture in your mind. Um, an i- an image in the mind is setting into motion a cascade of chemical effects in the human body that literally change us. We are changed in the presence of the right kind of imagination, and the books tell us how, how to do that. So imagination, creativity, innovation, empathy, sympathy, love, compassion, healing, forgiveness, these are expressions of human divinity. It's what sets us apart from all other forms of life and makes us such powerful beings. The purpose of evil... And this might be the most important thing that, that we say today, because it's a nebulous concept, good and evil, until y- until you give the benchmark. The purpose of evil is to deny human divinity. The purpose of evil is to deny us our greatest expressions, imagination, creativity, the ability to communicate and share our ideas, empathy, sympathy, c- self-healing, all of those things. So in a very real sense, Joe, anything that denies those things is an expression of evil. So when we find that algorithms are denying us the ability to communicate our ideas, from this perspective, that's an expression of evil. When we find... when we put something into our bodies that prevents us from healing our own bodies, that is an expression of evil. What the Gnostic texts are saying is that we are in a process that has a beginning and an end, and the purpose of the process, ahem, is to deny humankind.... our own humanness, that has been playing out over eons. And now, the technology is allowing it to play out to a greater degree, because things like AI, things like... misused. I'm not anti-AI. It's how it's used. Uh, things like computer chips in the brain, computer-brain interface, all these things, what they're doing, Joe, is they are denying our humanness. Use it or lose it. We've... if we're using technology in place of our imagination, for example... and the psychology journals are, are full of articles about this. People that chronically use... artists, musicians. My wife is a voting member of the Grammys, and we just had this conversation. Uh, you've got musicians who go to ChatGPT and say, "Hey, write me a song," and now put some music to that song, and now you enter it with the Grammys, and you are competing against a human who has labored 30 or, or so years to master their voice and, and an instrument, and you say, "Is that fair?" Well, they're, they're struggling with that right now, but... So, these are all expressions of, of anything that denies our humanness, uh, from that perspective, is an expression of evil. Who is doing that? That is what those texts are all about. That's what the texts are, are, are talking to us about.

Narrator 1:08:39 Here's an interesting. Uh, this is Gospel of Thomas 114. This is how it ends.

Joe Rogan 1:08:45 "Simon Peter said to them, 'Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life.' Jesus said, 'Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male, so that she too may become a living male spirit similar to you. But I say to you, every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.'" Okay.

Gregg Braden 1:09:06 So, what they're talk-

Narrator 1:09:07 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:09:08 What is going on?

Gregg Braden 1:09:08 Can you, can you go... Pull, pull-

Narrator 1:09:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:10 I'm just, uh...

Gregg Braden 1:09:11 Pull, pull up... I'm not sure why you chose that one.

Narrator 1:09:12 I read just those

1:09:13 ... parts-

Gregg Braden 1:09:13 But let me... Can you pull up, uh, number s-

Joe Rogan 1:09:15 That's a very interesting part. What was... Why am I even in love now?

Gregg Braden 1:09:16 Well, we can, we can talk about it, because he, it's in code. He... And he's talking about, uh, the, the marriage, the sacred marriage of masculine and feminine. Uh, and it's when you... He's saying when you make the two one and the inside like the outside, then you will say to the mountain, "Move," and the mountain will move. And what he's talking about is, is honoring the masculine and the feminine, and that's more than just a metaphor. I mean, there's a whole thing that goes with that. Can you bring up, uh, saying number 70?

Narrator 1:09:45 Uh, I'll go to 70. Sure.

Gregg Braden 1:09:47 Or number 10.

Narrator 1:09:48 Oh. Let's start with 70.

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 Hm. So, 70 says, Jesus says, "If you bring it into being within you, then that which you have will save you. If you do not have it within you, then that which you do not have within you will kill you."

Gregg Braden 1:10:10 So-

Joe Rogan 1:10:10 Jesus says, "I will destroy this house, and no one will be able to build it again."

Gregg Braden 1:10:14 This is the thing. He's i- in the, the Christian doctrine, uh, we're led to believe that he was a peacemaker. And what it says very clearly in the Gospel of Thomas, he, he says, and if you go to the early...

Narrator 1:10:26 As far as... When I was looking it up, this, uh... The ca- Catholics say that some of this stuff Jesus did say.

Gregg Braden 1:10:32 Oh, he said it. They-

Narrator 1:10:33 Some of it he did not say, and some of it's flat-out made up.

Gregg Braden 1:10:36 They have a problem with the, with the dating, but they also have a problem that it doesn't support the narrative that was... This is what... So there were two councils. There was the Council of Carthage and the Council of Nicaea, uh, and this is where they excluded these documents, but they had been accepted prior to that. Just, just like, uh, Enoch. Uh, you've heard people in here talk about the Book of Enoch.

Joe Rogan 1:10:56 Yes.

Gregg Braden 1:10:57 Yeah. That was accepted before these as well.

Narrator 1:10:59 Yeah, yeah.

Gregg Braden 1:10:59 So, these were... What these are, they're inner teachings not meant for the masses, um, based upon the, the concepts that he's sharing. And this is where he's saying there is something inside of us. And the rest of the Gospel, this is what, uh, Philip and Thomas are talking about, is that we are imbued with this force, given in no other form of life. It's a, a light. Uh, it is an intelligence. And when we are fully empowered in, in this intelligence, we are sovereign, critically thinking beings, and we are no longer susceptible to and vulnerable to the agendas and the ideas of others. In, in that there are multiple agendas that are out there. So, from this time... And now if, if... When you go to the, the Sumerian texts, they say the same thing. They're saying when they beheld what it was that they created, uh, it had more light, more power than those that created it. Then you get into the whole conversation of Genesis, you know, where it says, "God created man," but that's a translation error, because the original text say Elohim, and Elohim is a plural. Some people will say it's not. There's exceptions to that. But it says, "Elohim said, 'Let us create man in our image.'" So, even if Elohim is not plural, us implies more than one God. So, the point of all of this... And we can drill down into the weeds on all of these, but it appears that there was a collective of intelligence that is responsible for, for us, okay? That's not science. The... That's the text. Now, you look at the science. The DNA is telling us that 200,000 years ago, there were mutations that cannot happen in nature that imbued us with the ability to communicate with one another and all of these things that we're, that we're talking about. And a- almost from the moment that we were imbued with these things, there was an attempt to deny us.... our, our power, and that attempt continues today. So, I think a good case can be made. Everything you're seeing happen in the world, it's all important. The wars, uh, uh, the economies, all the conversation on climate, it's all important. And, there's a level where it has become a distraction to keep us spun up and in fear so that we... Because we're so close, Joe. We're so close, as a species, to awakening this fundamental force within us. The closer we get to that awakening, the more chaos you see in the world to keep us distracted. And I'll give you a perfect-

Narrator 1:13:50 What is causing this awakening?

Gregg Braden 1:13:53 I think consciousness is, um, so, here's-

Narrator 1:13:56 So, is this the battle that we have to fight though? Is this like... Because it seems like there's always a pull and a push. Right? So-

Gregg Braden 1:14:02 Eh, I think it's, it's a battle, um, or a struggle, depending on, on what language you want to use. There's a deeper conversation, and I think we're gonna get to this in, in a minute. But what I, I wanna go back. I said I would, I would elaborate on this. There's a part of us that doesn't live in our bodies.

Narrator 1:14:20 Right.

Gregg Braden 1:14:21 Science is struggling with this. But there's a scientific experiment, I've got it here, but if you can bring it up. So, let me just-

Narrator 1:14:26 You can give it to me, it's fine.

Gregg Braden 1:14:27 L- let me just tell you about it. (laughs)

Narrator 1:14:30 (whispers) Dun, dun, dun.

Gregg Braden 1:14:32 Well, I labeled each one and I've got a key sheet here.

Narrator 1:14:36 (laughs)

Gregg Braden 1:14:37 But you'll be able to see when it's on there. So, here... This is a mind blower, if you haven't heard this. And if you have, let me know. I wo- I don't wanna be redundant, but...

Narrator 1:14:45 Well, tell everybody else if I have.

Gregg Braden 1:14:46 Y- okay. So, 2022... Well, let me ask this.

Narrator 1:14:49 Okay.

Gregg Braden 1:14:50 Do you remember when you were a kid, a game called Pong?

Narrator 1:14:53 Pong? Like ping, toot-toot, toot-toot. Yeah.

Gregg Braden 1:14:55 Pong was-

Narrator 1:14:56 Sorry.

Gregg Braden 1:14:57 ... a ga- I think it came out in '72. And it was so primitive, Joe. It, it's like a (laughs) -

Narrator 1:15:03 Sure, I remember.

Gregg Braden 1:15:04 It's like a tennis game on a screen. But computers were new and we'd never seen anything like... I would go to work, uh, I, I was in a secure area, DOD, working on the Peacekeeper missile project. After lunch, guys would come in on their CRT screens. They'd be mesmerized. They couldn't help it. They were mesmerized with this game of Pong, this little boom, boom, boom, boom and that's all it was, okay? So, the point is, Pong w- was pervert- pervasive in, in our culture. Everybody knew what it was, all right? 2022, scientists did an experiment, and I've got it... Uh, he can find it or I've, I've got it on that. Uh, you can bring it up if you wanna see it. I actually... Pong is on there if you bring up the Pong file.

Narrator 1:15:45 This, this is part of the problem with the PowerPoint stuff. This, this kind of stuff happens. I don't think that's what you intended to show, is it?

Gregg Braden 1:15:51 Well, you can see, you can see part of it.

Narrator 1:15:53 But that's-

Gregg Braden 1:15:53 A- well, can you back up?

Narrator 1:15:55 ... covering... No, I mean, it's... The PowerPoint is-

Gregg Braden 1:15:56 Back a couple slides and there's... There is the-

Narrator 1:16:00 The PowerPoint is ruined.

Gregg Braden 1:16:00 There it is, right there. And he should be able to... Is it gonna animate it for us?

Narrator 1:16:04 Well, I think most people know how Pong works.

1:16:06 And everybody knows how Pong is.

Gregg Braden 1:16:06 Okay, there it is.

Narrator 1:16:07 And I used to have it when I was playing.

1:16:08 But I'm p- I'm trying to say the thing you were trying to get me to show, which is the next slide, is... It's, it's got an error in the-

Gregg Braden 1:16:13 Well, so here, so here's what they did. 2022, scientists took-

Narrator 1:16:17 Okay. Never mind.

Gregg Braden 1:16:17 ... neurons, b- but there was no human attached. And they put them into a Petri dish to keep them alive, and they hooked up the neurons to a computer chip. So, now you've got a, a, a biology technology interface. All right? So, the neurons are c- hooked up to a chip. The chip was put into a computer that was loaded with Pong. The neurons began playing the game of Pong, even though there was no human attached to the neurons. And the longer they played, the better they got. They were actually learning how to play Pong better. And now, the scientists are struggling with the question, "How does a neuron not attached to a human in a Petri dish know how to play Pong? Where are the instructions?" Okay, so, I remember when I was a kid, E- Einstein had died. And they had his brain thin-sectioned in um, uh, the University of Kansas, because they wanted to see what made his brain different from everybody else. And it looked pretty much like everybody else's, with one exception. He had a whole lot of folds in his brain. So, when you stretch those folds out, he had more surface area, he had more neurons. So, they're thinking... But there was... E=MC² wasn't in the brain, all right? So, now they're looking at those neurons, they're saying, "Where's the instructions for Pong?" You know, and they're trying to figure out where it is. Well, here's what this experiment is telling us. The instructions aren't in the neurons. The neurons are a biological antenna, a molecular antenna, that tune to the place in the field where Pong is pervasive. All right? The field. There was a time when the field was a metaphor. You know, uh, metaphysical people, spiritual people, you say, "Oh, yeah. You know, it's, it's out in the field." July 4th, uh, of 2012, the CERN Superconducting Super Collider made an announcement that they had discovered a field that had been predicted by Peter Higgs, the physicist Peter Higgs.

Narrator 1:18:31 The Higgs boson.

Gregg Braden 1:18:32 Eh- well, they found the Higgs boson, and what that implied was that there was a field supporting the boson, and now it's accepted science. They say, "Oh, yeah. There, there's a field." So... But here's the thing. I was at a conference recently. Here's what scientists are doing. This is a hoot. They're still saying this. They're saying, "Oh, yeah. There's a field out there that connects everything," and their hands are doing this. The field's not out there. We're the field. Okay? Ev- 50 trillion cells in the human body. Every one of those cells has about 100 trillion atoms emerging from the field and collapsing into the field right now. You and I. We're constantly... The, the atoms in our bodies are emerging and collapsing-... into that field. We are the field, and that is what makes us so powerful. This is why we can heal our bodies almost instantaneously when we know how to access this part of ourselves, because we hold the blueprint that tells those atoms how to express when they come into the body. So if you've got something you don't like in your body, what you do is you are using the gift of imagination to create a new blueprint for that atom to come into. And that sounds crazy to some people, and there's a lot of science that's struggling with this. But when you get into the quantum world, you get into the fact that the Higgs field exists, you get into the fact that imagination in the mirror neurons of the human brain... Mirror neurons were only discovered in 2004, and the, the thing about mirror neurons is they don't know the difference between watching an experience and having an experience. So for example, you can be on the couch on a Sunday afternoon watching the Joe Rogan Show (laughs) with an exciting guest. You're just laying there, but your heart might be racing and your body's perspiring, your muscle... Or maybe you're watching soccer, because your neurons don't know the difference between watching and having the experience. This is why porn is so addictive, because the mirror neurons don't know the difference between having and, uh, and witnessing the experience. They're gonna kick up the same addictive chemicals, the same dopamine, the same, uh, levels of, of adrenaline watching the image as they are having the image. Here's where our power comes from, because the image can be imagined. When we are able to hold an image of ourselves fully enabled, fully capacitated, fully healed, fully awakened, hold that image, what we're actually doing is we're programming the body. And this is something... Shamans know this, and I live in northern New Mexico. Our indigenous healers all know this. I spent a lot of time in Peru and the Andes, the, uh, the Andean Peruvians. They use different language. So, so the point of all of this is we're not what we've been told, and we're so much more than we've been led to believe. And it is the attempt to deny that power that is driving so much of what we're seeing happening in, in our world today, and it goes way back.

Joe Rogan 1:21:42 And so you think the motivation of that attempt is evil?

Gregg Braden 1:21:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:21:47 Is- Is it that- That's an actual force that people are giving into?

Gregg Braden 1:21:51 And this is... This is it.

Joe Rogan 1:21:52 And that's why they're enacting all these levels of control, and that's why they're suppressing people and releasing bots on the internet? It's literally an expression of evil going through those people.

Gregg Braden 1:22:02 And evil, evil's not dar- not necessarily darkness. A lot of people confuse these. Darkness is simply a polar force. We, we live in a binary world. We've gotta have light and dark, plus and minus, boys and girls. You know, we live in... Uh, it... The darkness is a passive polarity. Evil has an active stated purpose, and the purpose of evil has always been, whether you're