EVERY SPOKEN WORD
155 min read · 30,663 words- 0:00 – 0:20
Cold open: hair jokes, headsets, and rolling straight into the show
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- GBGregg Braden
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- NANarrator
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) We just missed a fabulous conversation about your hair.
- GBGregg Braden
(laughs) You have the best hair. We, we talk-
- JRJoe Rogan
I would not wear headsets if I was you.
- GBGregg Braden
Are, are we recording right now?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, we, we're going now.
- 0:20 – 1:42
Wayne Dyer story and playful “antenna” humor about hair
- GBGregg Braden
So, did you ever know Wayne Dyer?
- JRJoe Rogan
No, I didn't know Wayne Dyer. Did we ... Wait a minute, do we have Wayne Dyer on the podcast, ever? Like way, way, way, way, way back in the day?
- GBGregg Braden
I was, uh, I was on a cruise with ... We had the same publisher, Hay House, is our publisher. And we were on a cruise just off Australia. Of course, the sun's out there, and Wayne came out, and he's got a very shiny head. He said, uh, "Gregg Braden." I said, "Yeah?" He says, "You see this?" And I said, "Yeah." He said, "This is a solar panel for a sex machine."
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. (laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
And, and I, I couldn't, I couldn't match that, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
So I said, I said, "Well, you see this?" I said, "These are ... Every one of these, every one of these hairs is a highly advanced, finely tuned antenna to higher dimensional state spaces of information." And so, that was our joke about hair and, (laughs) and no hair.
- JRJoe Rogan
Imagine if, like, that's what made you enlightened, how much hair you had, and then when it started to fall out, you got dumber.
- GBGregg Braden
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
Well, like I said, they, they ... Every decade of my life, they're saying, "If you have it this decade, you can keep it." So when I hit my 70s, they said, "You got this-"
- JRJoe Rogan
That's interesting.
- GBGregg Braden
... "you got this, this, uh, you can probably keep it," so ...
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah. If you have minoxidil, like, if you've got, like, really good at it today, and there's a bunch of different, uh, DHT inhibitors that are topical that they could use. My friend, Derek, from Derek Moore Plates, More Dates, it's a website. He's got a bunch of, like, protocols on how to save your hair. So people who wanna save their hair.
- GBGregg Braden
(laughs)
- 1:42 – 5:55
Art Bell’s legacy: fringe becoming mainstream and the need for discernment
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, but we were talking about Art Bell when you came in here-
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... 'cause there's a photograph of Art on the wall that, like, was one of the most important things for me to put up. Like, we talked about it, and Jamie and I were like, "Oh, you gotta get a ... We gotta get a metal picture of Art Bell." Because that was the guy, man. When I was driving home from The Comedy Store at, like, 1:00 in the morning, and I was listening to AM radio, Coast to Coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
- GBGregg Braden
That was it? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It was my favorite. This was like all ... For me, it was kinda pre-internet too. Like, may- ... You know, the internet existed, but it wasn't the thing that it is now. There was no podcasts.
- GBGregg Braden
No, but you know, the crazy thing is the stuff that was on that program that was all fringe is what everybody's talking about every day at, at lunch-
- JRJoe Rogan
Totally mainstream now.
- GBGregg Braden
... at lunch right now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Area 51, Bob Lazar, totally mainstream.
- GBGregg Braden
You know, he was so kind to me. He had me on his program before I had my first book. I self-published my first two books, and I was doing talks, uh, all over up and down the, the West Coast, uh, up into Vancouver. And he had heard ... Somebody in his shop had been to one of those talks, and he invited me on. No book. And, uh, and then he had me on a number of times after that. And so, I, I felt ... I was very honored to be on there. And, you know, we talked about everything, man. He could, uh ... That was the thing. You could talk about anything, anything you wanted to talk about.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was al- ... It was also, like, Art was a show where you could get real information, and you could also get complete horseshit. And you had to be able to discern-
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... what is what, but Art treated everyone with equal respect. Like, you could call him up, "Art, I'm a werewolf." He'd be like, "Interesting."
- GBGregg Braden
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"Tell me more." (laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It was never like, "Bitch, you're not a werewolf. You're just mentally ill. You need to get some Prozac," or whatever they give you.
- GBGregg Braden
Well, you still, you still gotta be discerning today. You know, I think, I say it's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, today, you m- more so than ever because of AI and because of-
- GBGregg Braden
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... bots and ...
- GBGregg Braden
But, you know, I always say-
- JRJoe Rogan
... you never know what's going on.
- GBGregg Braden
I think it's important to have, have an open mind but not a gaping mind. And, uh, and there's, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes, that's an unfortunate use of terminology, but, uh, yes.
- GBGregg Braden
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I, I agree wholeheartedly.
- GBGregg Braden
Well, and, you know, part of the reason for that, and you know this, we, we have a global audience. Uh, a lot of those people are very hurt, unresolved hurt. They're right on the edge.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- GBGregg Braden
They're very fragile personalities.
- 5:55 – 8:10
The “Face on Mars” and Cydonia: geometry, erosion, and why right angles matter
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, so what is your take on all this? Because one of the things that happened was, with the face on Mars, is the initial images were very grainy but fascinating. 'Cause it did kind of look like a face, but ... Maybe even more remarkable, because sometimes there's faces, like in the side of a rock, it looks like a face. More remarkable was the, the geometric pattern of the base of it.
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so-... I, I kinda dismissed that when the second images came out. So this is the original image. This is the ori- original image that freaked everybody out.
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They were like, "Oh my God, there's a face on Mars." And then they came up with these upgraded images, and I was like, "Well, that's not a face. It's just weird shadows, and it's probably just a mountain." But man, that's an odd shape.
- GBGregg Braden
Or, that face has been doctored.
- JRJoe Rogan
It could be true.
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But also, then I looked at it, and I was like, "Um, that shape is interesting." Like, it, it almost looks unnatural. Then the new images from very close to Cydonia-
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that show a very clear square. This one's nuts, 'cause this one is somewhere in the neighborhood of between three... It's pl- plus-300 meters.
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, they don't know how much longer it is than 300 meters, but it's th- the minimum size of this thing is 300 meters across. And it's a full-on square. Right angle, right angle-
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... right. It's like, what the hell is that?
- GBGregg Braden
Well, as, as a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Pull that picture up, Jamie.
- GBGregg Braden
As a geologist, I was fascinated when Hoagland, uh, first started talking about what was happening here, so-
- JRJoe Rogan
What's up, Jamie?
- NANarrator
Which one?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that one. Yeah, yeah, the one that we bring up all the time.
- NANarrator
Well, I know which one it is. Which one, though?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, it don't matter.
- GBGregg Braden
Some of them are doctored-
- JRJoe Rogan
Just click on any of them.
- NANarrator
Some of them are doctored though.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, the non-doctored one, the one next to it, like, right there. Look at that. That's cr- absolutely crazy.
- GBGregg Braden
Well, so I don't know if you... I'm very familiar with this image. I don't know if you can see with your mind's eye. You're looking at the lower left. That's a 90-degree angle. If you can see the rest of the 90-degree angle up at the top and over at the side, if you can trace out, that is one massive, right there. Yeah, now you can see it. Yeah, the computer has, has cleaned it up. Nature does not work in 90-degree angles. You're not gonna get wind erosion. Wind is called Aeolian erosion. Fluvial erosion is water erosion. You're not gonna get 90-degree angles
- 8:10 – 18:09
Moon anomalies and secrecy claims: pixelated NASA images, towers, pyramids, and China’s role
- GBGregg Braden
from, from wind or water. So, one of the tenets in archeology, when you see 90-degree angles, there's an intentionality underlying that, that structure. If, if it were a one-off, you could say maybe it's a fluke, and it's not. And this is on Mars. Jamie, I don't know if you can do this. Uh, through Freedom of Information, NASA had to release all of the lunar images up through, uh, the Clementine mission. And they didn't want to do that. And when they did release them, they ended up pixeling out a whole bunch of stuff, which made it look even, even more-
- JRJoe Rogan
More suspicious.
- GBGregg Braden
... obvious than, than it was. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
They're just fucking with us at this point.
- GBGregg Braden
So you gotta say, what is it on, on the s- the lunar surface that we paid for with our tax dollars that we're not supposed to be seeing? And these were, these were, uh, tower structures. Uh, do you, can you see the Clementine?
- NANarrator
Yeah, I don't know which one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Are there any undoctored, unblurred versions of it that some nerd has snuck out of the office?
- GBGregg Braden
N- I haven't seen them in the public, I, I haven't seen them in the public domain.
- JRJoe Rogan
But you've seen them privately?
- GBGregg Braden
No, but what I'm saying is, what, the, through Freedom of Information, what they were-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, but have you ever seen the undoctored images?
- GBGregg Braden
... forced, no, what they were forced to release.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- GBGregg Braden
Why in the world would they be pixelating the images that are on there, that, that actually make them look even, even more obvious than they are? So, so what we're seeing, what Hoagland was talking about, what you're seeing on Mars is not happening in a vacuum. It's happening, we're seeing the same thing on, on the lunar surface, to varying degrees. On Mars, there were three-sided, four-sided, five-sided pyramids.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at the one in the upper right-hand corner. That's odd.
- NANarrator
I think it's the same thing.
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's very odd.
- GBGregg Braden
So here's, here's the kicker. W- we're sending Viking probes, Viking 1, Viking 2, in the '70s, went to Mars. 19,000 images were captured from the orbiting, uh, part of the mission. The other craft landed on the surface, and, uh, I can just imagine being on the surface seeing this. It's, it's like this, this thing's like a spider, comes down in a cloud of dust. And this little tube pops up, and some sticky dental floss stuff shoots out. And then they reel it in to collect dirt and microbes, and they reel it into broth. Because they're looking for evidence of life on Mars, and it's happening next to massive monuments and geometric structures that are now dated about 50,000 years BP, before present. So they're looking for microbes and signs of life next to the most massive signs of life-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
... you know, that, that you could imagine.
- JRJoe Rogan
These, uh, you said they're dated to 50,000 BC, these structures?
- GBGregg Braden
B- BP.
- JRJoe Rogan
BP.
- GBGregg Braden
BP, before-
- JRJoe Rogan
Before present.
- GBGregg Braden
... before present, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, how do they know that?
- GBGregg Braden
Those were, uh, when the Cydonia mission, these, that's the Cydonia scientists-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 18:09 – 20:33
Disclosure and media-making realities: documentaries, narrative arcs, and what gets cut
- GBGregg Braden
Well, I think this is all tied into disclosure, and what's happening, the reluctance to, to have the full disclosure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. We've talked about that multiple times.
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Y- I'm sure you ... Were you in that documentary, The Age of Disclosure?
- GBGregg Braden
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
No. You've been in a lot of documentaries, and it's hard-
- GBGregg Braden
I have been in a lot, and it's, it's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's hard to remember the ones you've been in and not.
- GBGregg Braden
I've been in a lot, and, uh, a lot of what I said was left on the cutting room floor.
- JRJoe Rogan
Always. (laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
And th- there's a couple reasons for that. One thing I learned, Joe, and maybe you've learned this as well, if you're gonna be in a documentary, ask if you are on the front end of the filming or the back end of the filming.
- JRJoe Rogan
... what does that mean?
- GBGregg Braden
Here's the rea- are you one of the early interviews, or are you one of the later interviews?
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- GBGregg Braden
And here, here's the reason. They'll develop an arc in the storyline, and if you're early on, they're going to ask you questions to support that arc in that storyline. Five interviews down, somebody's gonna come on, and they're gonna introduce something and, and the producer is gonna say, "Ope, there's a new arc and new storyline." And now everything that you interviewed for, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- GBGregg Braden
... may not be relevant in that conversation anymore.
- JRJoe Rogan
Interesting.
- GBGregg Braden
So.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, (clicks tongue) I don't think you can control that, so. Gotta let that go.
- GBGregg Braden
You can ask. You just ask. You say, "Where am I in the, in the shooting process?" And if, if you're the first one, say, you know, "Maybe come back and, and (laughs) interview me."
- JRJoe Rogan
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- 20:33 – 22:30
Could humans have lived on Mars? Human antiquity, fossils, and the limits of the standard story
- GBGregg Braden
A little bit later on.
- JRJoe Rogan
... uh, is it your belief that there was a civilization on Mars that were us, and that we migrated to Earth, and then eventually populated Earth? Is that what you're thinking? Or that we coexisted in both places?
- GBGregg Braden
(clicks tongue) W- I think we did. And...
- JRJoe Rogan
It sounds so crazy to say-
- GBGregg Braden
Really?
- JRJoe Rogan
... and... Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. It does. Well, you, you, you probably travel in different circles. But I mean, to, to the rational, rational people, most people hear that and they go, "What? There were people on Mars?"
- GBGregg Braden
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
But, as time goes on, and more and more discoveries, we, we find out just about the structures that are on Earth and how old they might be, and the actual age of Homo sapiens, like how old we might actually be, where a lot... Or like they found that skull in China the other day that was, uh, they just... Have you seen this? It's a million-year-old Homo sapien skull, but apparently there's some debate about it. It's going, they're going back and forth. But at the very least, it's in the conversation of human beings possibly have existed, at least in this form, for a million years.
- GBGregg Braden
(clicks tongue)
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is kinda nuts.
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah, I-
- NANarrator
We actually found that the other day.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, uh, the, the, the story was published-
- NANarrator
They found that in 19...
- JRJoe Rogan
... the other day, right?
- NANarrator
Yeah, but they found that in 1990.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What, I found it the other day?
- GBGregg Braden
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
So I read it on the BBC the other day.
- NANarrator
I, I know. I was going through the story yesterday. What happened was some team reconstructed parts of that skull with new methods that are now available.
- GBGregg Braden
Oh.
- NANarrator
And they suggest that it could, say, that it was... I think it was actually one of those we've talked about, the big head, the Longi.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, right.
- NANarrator
That's one of those, is what they're saying.
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah, one of the Elongati-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. That, that one's fascinating, 'cause that's a larger human being.
- GBGregg Braden
Uh, was it Homo sapiens?
- JRJoe Rogan
Y- yeah, well, they're a-
- 22:30 – 31:07
Genetics argument: chromosome fusion, rapid trait shifts, and “intelligent intervention” claims
- GBGregg Braden
I'm, I'm skeptical about those, because they find one fragment and there's a lot of in- interpretation that's going on there. The, the consensus has been, for a long time, that we, we appeared. Uh, I'm just gonna preface this by saying I, I'm a degreed geologist. I believe in evolution. Evolution is a fact. I've seen it in the fossil record for plants, animals, insects. Darwin's Theory of Evolution breaks down when it comes to humans, and it breaks down for this reason. Uh, we now can do what used to sound like science fiction. If you ever saw the f- the first Jurassic Park-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- GBGregg Braden
... where they pulled the DNA out of the, the fossilized remains of ancient forms of life. In the movie, they brought them back to life. I, to the best of my knowledge, we haven't done that. What we have done is we can extract that DNA from the bone marrow of fossilized remains of beings that we used to believe were our ancestors. And what's happening is, and th- this is a mind blower, we know that we didn't descend from Neanderthal. We shared the Earth with them, certainly, and, and some people have some Neanderthal DNA because of that, but we did not descend from them, and we didn't descend from many of the other forms that you see on those traditional trees. You know, you've got modern-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGregg Braden
... humans here and all these, all these lines connecting. But if you look close at the lines, most of them are broken lines, Joe, because there's no solid evidence. It's called inferred or speculative relationships. Uh, it's like, I've got, I've, I've got a picture of it here if we wanna see that. But, but what they're showing is that, um, we showed up about 200,000 years ago, and now there's a little evidence that it may have been back as, as far as 300,000. But the, the kicker is that we can now look at the DNA and reverse engineer it and say, "What did it take to get where we are?" And what scientists are now calling the, the smoking gun, and there's st- still a lot of controversy around this, is, uh, human chromosome number 2. Human chromosome number 2, the second-largest chromosome in, in every cell of the body, it's got about 1,200 or so genes in that chromosome. And just one of them, uh, gene TBR1, is responsible for most of the brain that we have for our neocortex. So, our human-ness, our empathy, sympathy.... compassion, love, our cognitive abilities, uh, the mirror neurons. All these kinds of things are because that one gene ... Well, where this gets really interesting is, where did chromosome 2 come from? And scientists have the answer, but they don't like the answer, because chromosome 2 is the product of, of a fusion. Uh, Proceedings from National Academy of Sciences, the volume Genetics, says this very clearly: "We conclude that the origin of human chromosome 2, uh, is the product of an ancestral fusion, a telomere-to-telomere fusion of two preexisting chromosomes." That does not happen in nature. It can't happen in nature. So here's, here's what they're saying. You got two fully, two fully form-... fully functional chromosomes, and, uh, on the end are the, the telomeres, uh, that protect those chromosomes when the cells divide, and that's why they're on the end. They take the hit. It's a trauma in a cell when those, when those chromosomes are pulled apart and some of the DNA doesn't make it. So nature puts telomeres on the end to take the hit so the good DNA remains intact, and that's why it's on the ends. Human chromosome 2, those telomeres are right in the middle of the chromosome where they shouldn't be, because those chromosomes were fused together, uh, about, uh, 200,000 years ago, when we-
- NANarrator
Whoa.
- GBGregg Braden
... when we appeared. And if that was the only one, you could say, "Well, maybe it's a fluke." Chromosome number seven. I'm a musician when I ... I'm not doing what I'm doing now, long before I was a, a researcher. And one of the things I always used to, to wonder about, you know, we share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees, but you don't hear chimpanzees sing, you know? You're never gonna hear a chimpanzee sing Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven.
- NANarrator
Mm.
- GBGregg Braden
And you ask, "Well, why not?" I mean, 98% of the DNA is ... we share with them, but it's because of, of chromosome 7. And for about 175 million years, this chromosome was stable in all primates, all of them, orangutan, gorilla, chimps, all the primates. All of a sudden, there's this little mm- ... this little switch of a couple of genes that connected our tongue and our brain and our jaw, and we can sing, and we can have complex speech like no other form of life. It happened 200,000 years ago. What are the odds of that happening when chromosome 2-
- NANarrator
Hmm.
- GBGregg Braden
... is, is fusing? So I've b- ... I've worked with scientists, uh, my whole life, uh, both in academia and in, uh, in the corporations. I was a, a problem solver for Fortune 500 companies, uh, through the late '70s, '80s, and, and '90s. And one of the things I've seen about scientists is, is fascinating, is d- ... m- ... that there is, is one way of thinking that says we take all the evidence and we force it into a preexisting model, like all the new discoveries, trying to force that into Darwin's theory of evolution, or we allow the new evidence to lead to the story that it tells. And this is where science is stuck right now, because the old theory, Darwin's theory of evolution is in trouble, and it's ... the DNA is, is the reason it's in trouble. It's no longer superficial or, you know, fossil evidence, that ... I mean, the DNA is telling the story. Uh, and the new story suggests, at the very least, uh, a scientist has to say there's been some kind of intelligent intervention. And this is where science gets stuck, because science says it's not equipped to talk about any kind of an intelligent intervention, but that ties in to everything that's happening now, you know, if we're gonna talk about ancient civilizations, or if we're gonna talk about we've been here before. Are we gonna talk about, uh, you know, what it is that is the disclosure? All of those kinds of things. So science is kind of at a crossroads right now. There ... m- ... there is something called the standard model, and that applies to evolution. And what the evidence suggests is th- ... we are the product of an intelligent and an intentional act. Who or what that is, (sniffs) that's where it gets ... it, it can get sticky. Uh, the universe. W- we've had physicists on here, and, and really good physicists that ... and some of them are not aware of some of the new information that's come out now. But when I was in school back in the '50s, '60s, and, and '70s, I was taught that the universe is dead, inert, just cold, uh, and we happen to be lucky biology, you know? That's, that's kind of what they used to teach. Now, physicists are suggesting universe is alive, it is intelligent, and it's conscious. And one of the reasons for this ... And you can go to the NASA website and you can, you can look at some of these images, uh, the, uh, James Webb Space Telescope. They're showing galaxies that are in proximity of, of something that is dangerous to them, like an exploding, you know, whatever. And what they'll do is they'll create jets from the center, um, b- ... both direction, these jets that actually move them out of the way. And I, I talk about s- ... I've got a new book and I talk about that in, in the new book, uh, so it's documented in, in the book. They actually move them to a, a safer place. And you say, "Well, maybe that's a fluke. It's a one-off." And now ... but they have found that. They have found it happens time and time again.
- NANarrator
So space itself is conscious in some form?
- GBGregg Braden
Conscious ... Okay, conscious and intelligent, and those are two, two very different things. But that is a very different story. If, if our universe is alive and intelligent and conscious, and we are the product of an intentional act-... we solve our problems, Joe, and we build our world based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves. We use our resources. We, um, we apply our technology based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves. And we have been
- 31:07 – 55:01
Transhumanism and “use it or lose it”: AI, implants, VR, and cognitive atrophy concerns
- GBGregg Braden
taught that we are a flawed form of life, that, uh, we are powerless victims of the world around us. And because of that ... This is gonna lead into this whole conversation. Because of that, we need a savior, and that savior is being touted as technology. So now, we are living at this time where we're being encouraged, indoctrinated, coerced, mandated sometimes, to embrace the technology outside of our bodies, because we have been conditioned to believe that we are, are a broken, flawed form of life. And you're seeing this play out in the AI conversation. You're seeing it play out in, um, what's called the trans-human movement, the, the intentional movement to replace our humanness with computer chips in the brain, chemicals in the blood, RFID chips under the skin. Uh, and it's all playing out right now, Joe. I mean, this, uh, this can't go on for, you know, another 20 years, because it's moving too fast. This is the generation, right? And this, I'm very passionate about this. The experts are saying unless we change our trajectory right now, we very probably are the last generation of pure humans that the world will ever know. That by 2032, when you go to the supermarket or go to the airport, the people you talk to will be some hybrid, maybe some more and some less, but will have some kind of technology embedded into their, into their bodies. I was on a panel recently, and I was with a group of scientists, and they said, "Well, what's wrong with that? You know, isn't that the next step? Isn't that our, our natural step in, in, uh, in our evolution?" And I said, "No, it is not, and here's the reason. When we replace our natural biology with synthetics, our natural abilities begin to atrophy." Cells will ... Let me just give a perfect example. Um, y- ... We used to be taught ... (laughs) When I was in school, I was taught that we're, we're born into this world with a fixed number of brain cells. And every, every beer I drank in college-
- NANarrator
Yeah, I remember that.
- GBGregg Braden
... all right, you're, I'm gonna lose some brain cells. Well, what I'm gonna say next is not a reason to drink the beer.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
But what they found, there's a part of the human brain, it's the hippocampus, that is producing new brain cells until the last breath we take on this, this Earth. There's a catch, and the catch tells the story. If we do not use those new brain cells in a meaningful way within about seven to 10 days, the body says, "Oh, you didn't use it, so you must not need it," and those cells will atrophy and die.
- NANarrator
That makes sense, 'cause I always feel dumber when I come back from vacation. (laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
(laughs) Are you drinking beer on the, on vacation?
- NANarrator
Not this time.
- GBGregg Braden
No.
- NANarrator
But sometimes, yeah. Well-
- NANarrator
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- GBGregg Braden
But that principle ... So i- it's called use it or lose it. We've all heard that. That principle applies to every system in the human body. It applies to our cognitive abilities, to our reproductive system. And when we replace our natural biology with these synthetics, this is exactly what's happening. Uh, and it ... We've been doing this long enough. Virtual reality goggles, for example, they've been around long enough. Psychology Magazine has published article after article. If you take young kids with malleable brains, parents are busy, they wanna entertain them, so they sit them on the floor, put a virtual VR goggle on, and, you know, three or four hours a day and say, "Hey." So here's the kid. They're just sitting there like this, and they're seeing images that they would never see in their backyard, and colors, and sounds, and situations. But here's the thing: it's all being done for them. They are not using their imagination like you and I did when we were kids. They're not using their imagination, so, so now, what's happening is, there are parts of their brain that are atrophying. So they are, uh, diminished cognitive abilities, diminished language skills, diminished communication skills. But listen to this. The visual cortex, which is what they're using to watch everything, is enlarged in the brain. The visual cortex gets bigger because that's what ...
- NANarrator
That's what's getting exercised.
- GBGregg Braden
That's what they're doing. Now, because of epigenetics, all of that can be reversed when the kids are put into a healthy environment, go outside and play with your friends.... you know, they're young enough that they can reverse that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGregg Braden
Uh, I spent a lot of time with shamans in, um, in the Yucatan, and in, um, in Peru, Costa Rica, places like that. And they've, they found the same thing. Uh, the shamans that maybe do, you know, v- 5,000 ayahuasca journeys, because they're leading groups, and every time the group does it, they do it, so, you know, they're doing that. Their visual cortexes are, are enlarged, but their other abilities are diminished. Now, if you're a shaman in the jungle, maybe that's no big deal. But if you're a software engineer in Silicon Valley, writing code for nuclear triggers, and on the weekends, you know, this is what you're doing every weekend, chronically, uh, it could be a problem.
- JRJoe Rogan
Have they done studies on that, where they've shown the declined ability, or-
- GBGregg Braden
Yes. Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... cognitive function, due to psychedelic use?
- GBGregg Braden
Uh, yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- GBGregg Braden
They have. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
With any specific psychedelics?
- GBGregg Braden
Ayahuasca was one. And, and I hesitate, because there are different, different kinds of, of ayahuasca-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- GBGregg Braden
... different, uh, that's called a brew, different kinds of, of brew.
- JRJoe Rogan
So is the idea that people are overdoing it, they're doing it too much?
- GBGregg Braden
Well, I wanna be clear about this. One-off, I don't think there's any, any problem, if it's done therapeutically. Uh, I'll give you a perfect example. I, I was speaking at a facility. I was invited as a guest speaker to go with a cohort, uh, through seven-day programs. And part of that program was ayahuasca. Part of it was breath work. Part of it was body work. Part of it was natural, uh, raw food, uh, you know, the, the whole gamut. And there was a woman and her husband who came, and they were both healthy. They couldn't have a baby. They couldn't conceive. Her eggs were good. His sperm was good. The doctors couldn't figure it out. And they said, "There's, there's something else going on." So they came to, to this program. And the woman, and th- uh, this, one, one time, she had, uh, a plant medicine experience. And in that experience, a being came to her, and reached in and pulled her heart out, and it was all black, and had stuff all over it. And, and the being cleaned it off, and put it back in, did the same thing with the womb. And she had had, she had been traumatized as a child, had been abused, uh, had not resolved that, apparently, uh, you know, on a deep emotional level. And so there was a part of her that felt that she wasn't worthy to conceive, and it was being, it was shown up that way. And in her plant medicine experience, this is what worked for her, and they, they conceived shortly aft- I think they conceived that week while they were there, when they, they did the numbers backwards. Now, as a scientist, can you prove that? Or, you can say there's a high correlation between the time that an individual has an experience like that, and when, you know, when they successfully conceive. But that's a one-off, and I, I don't, uh, therapeutically, I don't think there's anything ... it's, it's not gonna be harmful one-off. It's the chronic use-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 55:01 – 1:14:02
Good vs evil as “denying divinity”: ancient texts, Gnosticism, and social fragmentation
- GBGregg Braden
Well ... Okay, so this will open the door to answering-... Cedonia-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- GBGregg Braden
... and everything else that we've done. So we're not, we're not totally beating around the bush. We're gonna bring this-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- GBGregg Braden
... all together. Uh, I wasn't sure how deep you wanted to go with this, Joe. And, and what I'll say is, w- I'm gonna acknowledge things we're talking about, for a lot of people, is a very different way of thinking, and it certainly is different from what I was conditioned. I was born and raised in northern Missouri, a rural community. Um, my first degrees in geology and computer science. This is a very different way of thinking, and it's where the evidence is leading us. W- what the, our most ancient and cherished texts, whether you're talking about religion or, or not religion, they say that we are born into, uh, an ancient struggle that began long before we ever got here. Uh, and for lack of a better term, and this is where words, words are powerful and they carry a lot of baggage, it's, it's a struggle between good and evil. All right? We're born into this struggle between good and evil. It's not a religious struggle. When we talk about evil, I think it's important to quantify what that evil is, and to do that, we have to talk about who we are. There's something inside of us, Joe, and this is where science is stuck. This is where science and spirituality come together in a beautiful way, and this is where language may fail me, so I'm gonna do my best. There is something inside of us that is so rare and so precious and so ancient and sacred and powerful and beautiful, that there are forces that have, in history, and are currently working to, to deny us access to this force. The force is the reason for the ancient texts, the spiritual traditions, and there, there's two ways that we, we can have this conversation. You can say we can do it from a biblical perspective and talk about angels and demons; we could do it from a high-tech perspective and talk about an advanced civilization from another world in another time, and you're talking about the same thing, exactly the same conversation. As to our origin, uh, there was an intentional intervention that created us. Biblical traditions are giving us one perspective. The Mesopotamian texts are telling us that we are the product of the blood of, uh, of a higher form of life, and now the archaeological sites are revealing that those what's reported in those Sumerian texts actually existed. Uh, I w- I was a member back in the '90s-
- JRJoe Rogan
What, specifically, did they report in those-
- GBGregg Braden
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
... archaeologically?
- GBGregg Braden
The, well, let me say, I, I was a, in the '90s, I was a, a member of a, an organization called BAR, Biblical Archaeology Review.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- GBGregg Braden
And th- the idea is that you, you follow the in- the, the instructions in the text, and you go someplace and you dig, and there is what the text is talking about from 3,000 years ago. So they use that to try to validate the events, not, not the r- religiosity but the events. In the Mesopotamian texts, when we talk about the king's list, you've had guests on that talked about the, the king's list, um, in Sumeria, that talks, it literally says, "When, when the kingship descended from the heavens to the earth," and then it gives the list of the kings, uh, and then there was another flood. And they evacuated and then they came back and then they created humans. And it, it actually lines up date-wise with the 200, 250,000 years of when we were created, but there's no religion involved. Um, so two different languages. Are we talking about an advanced civilization, uh, and our relationship to them a long time ago? Are we talking about angels and demons from a long time ago? Are we talking about, uh, beings with, uh, with wings in the religious tradition or, or when you look at the Sumerian traditions, the kings all had wings as well?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGregg Braden
But they're telling the same story, and what the story is, is that we are an intent- we're the product of an intentional act, and we were imbued with a force that was greater even than those who created us, and that there has been an effort from that time to deny us that force.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, how do you know that our force is greater than those that created us?
- GBGregg Braden
I don't know this-
- JRJoe Rogan
Where, where are you getting that from?
- GBGregg Braden
That is from, uh, if you're familiar with the Gnostic texts, uh, in the Gnostic texts, the... So the, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1946, '47, the oldest unedited records of the Old Testament. Push, push the date back 1,000 years. The... In '45 and '46, the oldest records of the New Testament and the texts that were excluded were discovered in a little village along the Nile in Egypt called Nag Hammadi. Uh, it's, can I just tell? It's a crazy story.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- GBGregg Braden
Th- there's not much firewood, uh, along the Nile in Egypt and there was a, a woman, uh, who needed kindling to feed her family, to build the fires to feed her family and heat their home, and she, she told her son, "Go find some kindling," and he was very resourceful. There's no trees, so he found an old tomb, and in the tomb were clay vases, and he opened those vases and there were, uh, documents that were very dry and brittle and made great kindling.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, no.
- GBGregg Braden
And we don't know how many were lost, uh, before the authorities were noted, but right now there are 13 bound-
- JRJoe Rogan
They, they cooked a bunch of them?
- GBGregg Braden
They burned and they used them for fuel.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh my God.
- GBGregg Braden
But, but, so here, but here's, here's what's left. What's left, there were, uh, 13 bound books representing over 50 texts. They were the oldest records of the New Testament-... uh, and they were the records that were excluded by the, the Catholic Church.
- NANarrator
Is there any images of these books?
- GBGregg Braden
Yeah.
- NANarrator
Jamie, can you find those? I want to take a look at them.
- GBGregg Braden
Well, I've got them on my... I brought this for you. (laughs)
- NANarrator
All right. Oh, Jamie found them.
- 1:14:02 – 1:22:32
The ‘field’ idea made concrete: neurons playing Pong, Higgs field, imagination, and mirror neurons
- GBGregg Braden
Eh, I think it's, it's a battle, um, or a struggle, depending on, on what language you want to use. There's a deeper conversation, and I think we're gonna get to this in, in a minute. But what I, I wanna go back. I said I would, I would elaborate on this. There's a part of us that doesn't live in our bodies.
- NANarrator
Right.
- GBGregg Braden
Science is struggling with this. But there's a scientific experiment, I've got it here, but if you can bring it up. So, let me just-
- NANarrator
You can give it to me, it's fine.
- GBGregg Braden
L- let me just tell you about it. (laughs)
- NANarrator
(whispers) Dun, dun, dun.
- GBGregg Braden
Well, I labeled each one and I've got a key sheet here.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- GBGregg Braden
But you'll be able to see when it's on there. So, here... This is a mind blower, if you haven't heard this. And if you have, let me know. I wo- I don't wanna be redundant, but...
- NANarrator
Well, tell everybody else if I have.
- GBGregg Braden
Y- okay. So, 2022... Well, let me ask this.
- NANarrator
Okay.
- GBGregg Braden
Do you remember when you were a kid, a game called Pong?
- NANarrator
Pong? Like ping, toot-toot, toot-toot. Yeah.
- GBGregg Braden
Pong was-
- NANarrator
Sorry.
- GBGregg Braden
... a ga- I think it came out in '72. And it was so primitive, Joe. It, it's like a (laughs) -
- NANarrator
Sure, I remember.
- GBGregg Braden
It's like a tennis game on a screen. But computers were new and we'd never seen anything like... I would go to work, uh, I, I was in a secure area, DOD, working on the Peacekeeper missile project. After lunch, guys would come in on their CRT screens. They'd be mesmerized. They couldn't help it. They were mesmerized with this game of Pong, this little boom, boom, boom, boom and that's all it was, okay? So, the point is, Pong w- was pervert- pervasive in, in our culture. Everybody knew what it was, all right? 2022, scientists did an experiment, and I've got it... Uh, he can find it or I've, I've got it on that. Uh, you can bring it up if you wanna see it. I actually... Pong is on there if you bring up the Pong file.
- NANarrator
This, this is part of the problem with the PowerPoint stuff. This, this kind of stuff happens. I don't think that's what you intended to show, is it?
- GBGregg Braden
Well, you can see, you can see part of it.
- NANarrator
But that's-
- GBGregg Braden
A- well, can you back up?
- NANarrator
... covering... No, I mean, it's... The PowerPoint is-
- GBGregg Braden
Back a couple slides and there's... There is the-
- NANarrator
The PowerPoint is ruined.
- GBGregg Braden
There it is, right there. And he should be able to... Is it gonna animate it for us?
- NANarrator
Well, I think most people know how Pong works.
And everybody knows how Pong is.
- GBGregg Braden
Okay, there it is.
- 1:22:32 – 1:49:26
WEF, 2030 timelines, digital identity, and the ‘fusion’ of physical-digital-biological identity
- GBGregg Braden
to deny us the greatest expressions of our humanness. And now, we live in a time... This is no ordinary time in history. There... None of this is happening in a vacuum. We're barreling down the road toward this convergence of so many natural cycles and the date 2030. That has been identified by the United Nations, by the WEF, by a number of corporations, by Ray Kurzweil. In terms of AI implementation, they're all looking at 2030. And what you're seeing are the powers and the forces of the world jockeying to be in the best position when this date is upon us. And I'm not saying that's like January 1st, 2030, but the United Nations, for example, they've got... A- and again, I don't know if I'm being redundant here, but they've got, uh, the UN SDG 2030, UN, United Nations Sustainable Development Goals they want implemented by the year 2030. They're not getting much traction, because they're not good ideas. Uh, the goals, if you read them on the outside, Joe, they're, they're deceptively beautiful. Who doesn't want food security? Who doesn't want the end of poverty? Who doesn't want the end of disease? Now, you look at the fine print. How will they achieve those goals? And that's where it gets very concerning, all right? They haven't had much traction, because the ide- the, the way to get there is concerning. They're not good ideas. Now, we look at World Economic Forum. I know you've had people talking about WEF. They've been around since 1971. They meet once a year in Davos. You know, they talk about what they would like the world to look like, and they have every right to do that. Uh, some of their ideas are very dystopian in my opinion, things like, uh, "You will own nothing and be happy." You know, we've heard that.
Episode duration: 2:44:22
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