EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,301 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumming) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- NANarrator
(drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) Um, suck as fuck. I haven't done the ball, but I have done those knee chairs.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're a little annoying. And you're like...
- PLPalmer Luckey
What about standing desks?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- PLPalmer Luckey
You a standing desk fan?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Yep. I, I, when I use them, I usually have lower back gets, gets, gets kind of sore just standing there.
- JRJoe Rogan
I feel like some part of you should be relaxed, and if you're standing, you're, you're gonna want to lean on something. To have a conversation, especially. 'Cause I know some people do podcasts standing up, like a standing up table. I'm like, "Okay."
- PLPalmer Luckey
That's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PLPalmer Luckey
I, I have a buddy of mine who's doing a pr- have you ever seen the, the float tanks?
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Where you float in the salt water and you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, we have one here.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Oh, no, no way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PLPalmer Luckey
So, I know someone who is building a rig with a waterproof keyboard, waterproof mouse, and a VR headset so that they can have a float computing rig. And they wanna just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... they wanna just, they wanna, they wanna program while they're floating in space.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PLPalmer Luckey
And, uh, he hasn't, he hasn't gotten all the way there yet. The hardest part has actually been the mouse. There's lots of waterproof keyboards for various industrial applications, like, you know, they, so you don't get metal shavings in 'em-
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... and oil in them. But mice, it's actually, it's actually harder. But he's gonna get there.
- JRJoe Rogan
That makes sense 'cause there's a r- well, there's a laser now. It used to be an actual ball-
- PLPalmer Luckey
That would have been really hard.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in the old days. Yeah.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Yeah, the optic... At this point, I don't think it's that hard. I think he, he's been, he's been screwing around with just taking a normal one and then, uh, wrapping it in, in, in Saran wrap.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- 15:00 – 30:00
No, it's terrible. It's…
- PLPalmer Luckey
or a bit like birds, but g- generally, yeah, you're right, the human form is not the one that you would actually base a Terminator off.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, it's terrible. It's a terrible form.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Al- although I would say, one of my, I, I don't, I don't think James Cameron ever really explored this in Terminator, but my, my personal kind of like, uh, like, like a headcanon theory would be that the reason that Skynet made the Terminators into a humanoid form is because maybe there is really some hope and that it, there's something of, of humanity left in it. You know, what, like if-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... if it was truly a merciless killing machine with no affiliation with humanity, why would it make its agents, uh, you know, so, so uniformly human shaped? Uh, but that's just, that's just something I've thought from time to time.
- JRJoe Rogan
But wasn't it just for deception?
- PLPalmer Luckey
Well, so it-
- JRJoe Rogan
So they could sneak around.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... the, the later ones truly were for deception, but if you look at a lot of the flashes into the future, they don't have meat-shielded Terminators. There's lots of, like, T-Series, uh, humanoid combat robots that are just walking around as bare metal skeletons.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PLPalmer Luckey
And so I f- I, I feel like that it, it's some, it's almost like an admission that the AI does see itself in the, in the, in the mind of a, uh, it sees itself as a creation of man, it sees itself in the, in the eyes of man.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what's-
- PLPalmer Luckey
Y-
- JRJoe Rogan
... really creepy, right? 'Cause that's in the Bible.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Y-
- JRJoe Rogan
God created man in his image.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Th- that's exactly what I was thinking, is like, it's, it's very much like it realizes it was created in man's image and, and derives some sort of satisfaction or value from that. I don't know if that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Or maybe it is-
- PLPalmer Luckey
... good or bad, but it, I thought it was interesting.
- JRJoe Rogan
... just a giant cycle and that's how life eventually does create artificial life, and then ar-
- PLPalmer Luckey
Well, I mean, you're familiar with all like, you know, the, like all the, all the theories around, uh, you know, like, uh, humanity being like planted here by an alien.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah, sure.
- PLPalmer Luckey
And, and like that, that, that's, that's always interesting 'cause, you know, you could imagine a world where yeah, it is this cycle of things that look kinda like humans were on top of us, and maybe eventually there will be things l- look like humans beneath us.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wasn't there some weird discovery-
- PLPalmer Luckey
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
... uh, recent discovery of an asteroid where they picked apart whether it's the im- the crucial amino acids for life or some sort of genetic material?
- PLPalmer Luckey
You're talking about the, the NASA release that there were strong indica- like biosigns in, uh, co- that are, that are compatible with, with what we'd expect from life?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- PLPalmer Luckey
There was, and then I think they, they-
- JRJoe Rogan
Recently, right?
- 30:00 – 45:00
Oh wow. That's interesting.…
- PLPalmer Luckey
it." I don't think people felt like they had like psychic permission to do that five years ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh wow. That's interesting.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Well, I mean, and let, let, let's go to like, kind of like the-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you just didn't wanna rock the boat five years ago?
- PLPalmer Luckey
Well, I mean, let's go to like the height of, and you know, not even making it political, just timeline wise. Go to the like the middle of the Biden administration.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Could you imagine any official in that area, like secretary or chair or anybody coming out and saying, "My department is wasting billions of dollars."
- JRJoe Rogan
(gasps)
- PLPalmer Luckey
"We are taking money from taxpayers and using it on absurd nonsense." That would never happen five years ago. And I think the Doge stuff gave people permission to come out and say that. And, and, and, and for them to be seen not as, you know, crazy, but as just being honest about the truth. So when you see like the Secretary of the Army come out and say, "We are wasting billions of dollars on total bullshit and we're getting, we are getting screwed this, that way and the other," uh, I, I think that's a-... that's a really, that's a really good development.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it also seems like it's a really shitty way to compete with other countries that operate very efficiently, like their, their private companies.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Correct.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, other countries, like China, the government fully embedded in private companies-
- PLPalmer Luckey
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and the private companies are competing against each other-
- PLPalmer Luckey
Civil military fusion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Well, it, and there's, it's, it goes even beyond that, where like, uh, you know, central planning has downsides, but it does have upsides. And one of the interesting things there is also, like, there are some people who are being accused of corruption because they just want to kill them and get them out of the way for political reasons. There's other people who are actually corrupt, and they're going in, and when people are wasting money, they're not going and saying, "Oh, well, you kinda wasted a few billion dollars, but, you know, we're gonna give you another shot and try this again." They just, they just, they just, they just imprison them for treason and/or kill them. I'm not saying that's what we should do exactly-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PLPalmer Luckey
... but I think that there's a scale to all of these things. On a scale of, you know, give them another shot versus shoot them in the head for treason, we could probably move in that direction without going all of the way, and it would probably be healthy for our country's national security.
- JRJoe Rogan
Would that be the, like if you, ideally, would it be that all this national security stuff was handled by a private company? Would that be, like, ideal in terms of efficiency?
- PLPalmer Luckey
S-
- JRJoe Rogan
In terms of technological innovation?
- PLPalmer Luckey
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Implementing ideas?
- PLPalmer Luckey
I think that... Look, like, private c-
- JRJoe Rogan
Not a, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying, like-
- PLPalmer Luckey
No, no, no. So, uh, look, I've got, okay-
- JRJoe Rogan
There's problems with running a government.
- PLPalmer Luckey
I just, I mean, look, I've got a strong, I've got a strong opinion here. I think that what you want, it's not a private company. It needs to be done by competing entities, right? And so if it's private-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Mm. …
- PLPalmer Luckey
I'm familiar with a lot of the weapon systems that, uh, Russia and China have in fielding or in progress. Some of the stuff that China and Russia are doing i- I mean, it's as sci-fi as what the United States is doing. But I've come to the conclusion that their most powerful weapon is not any bomb or missile or drone, it's their ability to control people's minds through the media, through propaganda, through kind of state pressure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- PLPalmer Luckey
They convince them to believe things about the world that weren't true, that aren't true, and then they're, th- they're basically m- making people willing to fight for causes that don't really exist. Like, a good example of this is Ukraine. A lot of the Russians who went to fight in Ukraine, in the early days, I think the truth is out now, but when they were first invading, they were told that the people of Ukraine want to be liberated, you're gonna be a hero, you're gonna go over there... Like, they desperately want Russia to save them and reunify them, and it's, it's just this, you know, Kyiv-led, you know, cabal funded by the West with it as a... that's barely holding on to the country and, and keeping, and staying in power. Um, and people in Russia really believed that. Like, the, the guys who were fighting on the front lines, the guys who were flying tanks and helicopters, they believed it. When, when I went to, when I went to Ukraine during the war, uh, one of the things that I got to see was, uh, there was this helicopter wreck. It was an attack helicopter that was trying to seize an airfield of a, of a private aerospace company, and the guys actually shot it down themselves. Like I, they showed me videos of them wearing polo shirts, shooting down the helicopter in their parking lot. I mean, it's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... crazy shit. So the, the, the pilots, the pilot's kind of go bag, you know, his bag with all of his emergency and survival gear in it, it had three or four days of water, three or four days of food, another flight uniform, his dress uniform with dress shoes, because he, they were told they were gonna be... They said this is gonna be a five-day military operation, there's gonna be parades, there was gonna be... So dress uniform and then 50 condoms. This guy thought that he was gonna be s- He thought the women were gonna be all over him. They were gonna... He was gonna need 50 condoms for the post-war celebration.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PLPalmer Luckey
And to me that speaks to how brainwashed this guy was. And remember, helicopter pilots aren't like the dumb grunt-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... dragging... I mean, he's probably one of the more highly educated people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PLPalmer Luckey
And they convinced him that the people of Ukraine wanted him to liberate them and that they were going to be so happy to see him that he was gonna need his dress uniform and 50 condoms.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PLPalmer Luckey
And there are similar stor-
- JRJoe Rogan
50's a lot.
- PLPalmer Luckey
50 is a lot. You know-
- JRJoe Rogan
That guy's fucking up a storm. That's crazy.
- PLPalmer Luckey
I w- I will give him a little cr- You know, 50 condoms doesn't take up that much space in your bag. But, but it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
But also-
- PLPalmer Luckey
But it's a lot. It's a lot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PLPalmer Luckey
And the... This wasn't like the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Very optimistic.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Well, this wasn't the only guy. Like, this was actually pretty common.
- JRJoe Rogan
Everybody had 50 condoms? (laughs)
- PLPalmer Luckey
I don't know if everybody had 50, but a lot-
- JRJoe Rogan
They all brought condoms?
- PLPalmer Luckey
Well, a, a lot of guys had condoms and a lot of people brought their dress uniforms. They thought that there was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... a barrier to roll into Kyiv, take over, the people wanted them to be in power-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh my God.
- 1:00:00 – 1:06:01
Right. …
- PLPalmer Luckey
Barra- the Barracuda, we make three different Barracuda missiles. It has 90% fewer parts than legacy cruise missiles. It can be made with 10 tools that all exist in every automotive plant. So you could make this missile at mass scale in any GM facility, in any Ford facility. And that's really important for us, because if you, if you can only make your missiles in this specialized factory that took you 10 years to set up, well, what, what do you- what in the world do you do when you need 100 times more of those missiles made every day?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PLPalmer Luckey
You're, you're just kind of screwed. And so the United States has been doing better at this. I think, like, the Air Force is doing better, the Navy's doing better, the Army's doing better. Like, the Army has a whole transformation initiative where they want all of their new weapon systems to be highly manufacturable at scale using real industrial capacity. And working with private companies from the beginning to make sure that any- that- they want to make sure that any new system that they are building can be built by the American industrial economy-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Not, you know, not only these specialized, you know, specialized aerospace technicians of which they're just not that many.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's very smart. How soon-
- PLPalmer Luckey
And China does this, by the way.
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- PLPalmer Luckey
Like, this is- Ch- China made- China- have you seen the automated cruise missile factories that China has?
- JRJoe Rogan
I haven't.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Oh man, you, you've got to look this up at some point. There's some videos that they put out there, and they have this totally robotic line just churning out cruise missiles.
- JRJoe Rogan
I've seen their shipping ports. It's bananas.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Oh, well, I mean- so China has 300 times more naval shipbuilding capacity than the United States. The time that it takes us to build one aircraft carrier, they could build 300. Now, they're not building a bunch of aircraft carriers. They're mostly focusing on other things that are more relevant to what they want to do, which is invade Taiwan, so amphibious landing craft primarily. Um, but another thing China does is they actually require many of their commercial vessels that have nothing to do with the military to build to military standards for two reasons. One, because it means that all the shipyards are being built to handle military standards. Two, they plan on basically, uh, you know, they're going to press all of these civilian vessels into service. So they're saying, "Hey, you have this roll on/roll off, uh, car ferry that's used for moving cars around, for delivering cars to the United States. You have to build it to deck plate pressures that allow us to roll a bunch of tanks onto it so that we can then use it to deliver tanks to, to Taiwan from the Chinese mainland." And they're just requiring people to do that. And so even their civilian shipping fleet is actually this kind of-... military ghost fleet just sitting in the open, pretending to be civilian, but the moment it- the shit hits the fan, it becomes part of the war machine. And so they're- they've- they've-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... done a great job integrating in a way the United States has not.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you think that an invasion of Taiwan is imminent?
- PLPalmer Luckey
It's not imminent, but it's coming.
- JRJoe Rogan
Inevitable?
- PLPalmer Luckey
So, Anduril has an internal policy called China 27. The idea is that anything we are working on, anything that we are investing in, needs to be built with the assumption that sometime in 2027 China is going to move on Taiwan. And I might be wrong on this, right? It might be never, it might be a longer term thing, but in general, like, imagine how stupid I'll feel if I spend hundreds of millions of dollars building some new weapons system that I know is not going to come into service until the 2030s, which is what most experts say is outside of the window of when this invasion would happen. Wouldn't I feel pretty stupid if there's a gigantic fight and I've spent all my money on something that wasn't ready in time? I think that it is very likely that China moves on Taiwan for a variety of political reasons. Uh, so- so, like, Xi Jinping has this window politically where he can show that he's reunified China, he's got a lot of demographic problems that are gonna go out of control as he waits and people age, he's got a lot of economic problems where they're propping up their- their economy with a lot of kind of fake GDP, fake growth, fake demand, fake construction, and he's doing that, I think, to help build up his war machine. But it- i- i- it's not sustainable in the long run. So I- I think there's a window where they can do this. If you had to ask me, it's more likely that they don't do a full-scale invasion to start. It's much more likely that they do something like a blockade. So they'll come up with some pretense. They'll say, uh, "Oh, uh, Taiwan is exporting goods that say 'Made in Taiwan'," and our position is that Taiwan is part of China, and therefore they need to pay Chinese taxes on those made in China goods, so we're gonna blockade their port and not let them export anything until they resolve this. And I- I- and I worry- I worry about them kind of boiling the frog. You know, they- they blockade one port, and then two ports, and then the airports, and then the people of Taiwan are running out of money, running out of food, but you've boiled the frog enough where there's never a point where Taiwan really wants to fire the first shot and actually start a war. And certainly, like, I don't... I think you and I would agree here, the US probably should not start, uh, a- a- a- you know, start World War III-
- JRJoe Rogan
Proxy.
- PLPalmer Luckey
... over a blockade of a port, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PLPalmer Luckey
That- that- that's ... A lot of people-
- JRJoe Rogan
Boiling the frog is a great analogy.
- PLPalmer Luckey
Boiling the frog, I think, is what China will do. And so what we need to do, and- and this is just my opinion, which is definitely biased. So, to be clear, just so people know, nobody's gonna dig it and say, "But Palmer, Palmer's obviously only saying this because he's got money in the game." Uh, I- I will first say, I have plenty of money. I sold my first company for billions of dollars, I don't need to work, I- I could retire. I'm not doing any of this for the money. Defense, you- you make a lot less money for each hour of work you put in than you can make in- in tech or media or elsewhere. Um, but I do a lot of work with Taiwan. So we actually ju- I just went to Taiwan a few weeks ago to personally deliver a bunch of missiles and weapons systems that are specifically to counter a Chinese invasion. My opinion is that the United States, we don't want to get into a shooting war ourselves, right? Like, we want to avoid that. The United States needs to stop being the world police, stop sending our people overseas to die for other countries, and instead we need to become the world's gun store. We need to say, "Hey-
Episode duration: 3:03:44
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