The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #2411 - Gavin de Becker
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,014 words- 0:00 – 3:59
Project Gladio: CIA “stay-behind” networks and alleged false-flag terror in Europe
- NANarrator
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- GBGavin de Becker
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- NANarrator
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music plays) How are you, sir?
- GBGavin de Becker
I'm well, thank you very much.
- NANarrator
Great to see you as always.
- GBGavin de Becker
Good to see you too.
- NANarrator
You got a bunch of notes, you got a lot of things to talk about.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yes. (laughs)
- NANarrator
We were starting to talk outside, we're like, "Hold this. Hold the- hold these thoughts-"
- GBGavin de Becker
(laughs)
- NANarrator
"... let's bring him in here."
- GBGavin de Becker
Well, here's where I am. Uh, I, as a criminologist, you know, I take a different approach to things. I'm not obviously a doctor or scientist, uh, thankfully, and as a criminologist, you get a view of the world that's quite interesting, and so I took a deep dive into pharma. But I, I wanna put that off for a second, 'cause I know you know a lot of these CIA operations, like, um, uh, Paperclip-
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- GBGavin de Becker
... where we bring over, uh, people who are working on bioweapons from Japan and from Germany and we don't prosecute them and we, you know, use them to be the beginning of the US bioweapons program, and I know you know, uh, MKUltra and Mockingbird, but do you know the one called Project Gladio?
- NANarrator
No, I do not.
- GBGavin de Becker
Put your seatbelt on-
- NANarrator
Okay.
- GBGavin de Becker
... 'cause this one just, just tops it all. So this was World War II ends and the OSS, which was the CIA at the time, uh, decides to leave behind rather than take everybody home, all the American soldiers, they're gonna leave behind a bunch of them. "Hey, you guys, hide your weapons, hide your rifles, uh, secrete all the, uh, the, uh, uh, grenades and ammunition and put it in bunkers and just sit th- sit tight until we have some ideas of things you ought to do." So eventually a few hundred of them stay behind and they are gonna do things in Europe to stop communism, to stop socialism, to fight the Soviets, et cetera, but what are they actually end up doing is terroristic incidents against our allies. They blow up a train station in Bologna, 285 people injured, 85 people killed, done and funded and operated by our CIA. Uh, they, uh, do the nineteen assa- 1989 assassination of a guy who's a journalist who's writing about this, they shoot him twice in the head. Um, they do another bombing, 17 people killed. Another one, Oktoberfest in Germany, not Italy, 17 people killed. Why? Because they see that certain candidates are doing well and might become, uh, prime ministers, for example, or important legislators, so when you have a big giant terrorist incident done in some train station, for example, that moves the public toward a more right-leaning government or a more totalitarian government the CIA can deal with and away from anything where communism can happen. There's, uh, the assassination of Aldo Moro. He was a former prime minister, five bodyguards, they're all killed, he's kidnapped, few weeks later he's shot in the head and put in the trunk of a car. That was done by Project Gladio. In other words, these things were done by the United States to our supposed allies. And hundreds of these leave-behinds, uh, operated eventually a 20,000-person army all over Europe. Now, I don't expect anybody to believe a word of it. You gotta go to Wikipedia and put in G-L-A-D-I-O, it's just one D, and you'll see that, uh, that this insanity is true. The punchline on it for me, the one that, uh, really blows it out of the water is that it ended in 1990.
- NANarrator
Whoa.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah. And, uh, George Bush was president and he'd been former, uh, director of CIA, of course, and he, um, denies it like crazy, but eventually an Italian prime minister really goes to the mat on it, and it becomes so well-established that the US government funded and managed these operations, blowing up regular citizens in Europe, that, uh, a lot of the people who were imprisoned for them, for those, uh, incidents, terrorists, s- you know, terrorist groups, et cetera, were released on the defense that it was actually done by CIA.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- GBGavin de Becker
I did tell you to put your seatbelt on.
- 3:59 – 6:28
Oversight, empire, and the case for public skepticism
- NANarrator
Oh my god. Is that just, like, an idea that starts off as a precautionary measure that just got completely out of hand because there was no oversight?
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah, no oversight is the key to a bunch of stuff I wanna talk about today, because when governments, big centralized governments and other power centers become, uh, you know, with- without oversight, and where does oversight come from? It comes from us, the public having to be skeptical, and if the public is not skeptical, if they'll buy a story, uh, like, "Oh, a terrible terrorist group assassinated this guy Aldo Moro, how terrible," uh, and they'll buy the story with no skepticism, uh, because that's what we're told, then there will be no oversight and power centers... It's no surprise, you know, w- we could talk about every country on Earth. I'm not, uh, uh, you know, I- I happen to love America, but I'm not saying it's just America, it's, you know, this is the nature of espionage and the nature of war. But I wanna answer your question about is it just because of no oversight. The United States doesn't end wars very often. For example, World War II ends and you're all excited about it and you're mounting things and you're doing all this stuff, and then, uh, it ends, and everybody's like, "Hey, but we were, we were really into this thing." And so we don't let them end. We leave 300,000 troops in Germany, 300,000 troops in Japan, hundreds of thousands of troops in South Korea. Why don't we bring these people home? Uh, if the war is over, the war is over, but that's not how empire works. And so the, the US, uh, tends to, you know, continue these, uh, wars in the versions I just described to you, which is more secret versions. And, um, uh, it's, it's dark, man. I mean, if somebody, and maybe somebody has (laughs) , but if somebody came into America and did a bunch of terrorist, uh, incidents in America that killed a lot of Americans, oh geez, let's reflect on whether that's ever happened, but anyway, if that happened, we'd be stressed and, uh, uh, and rightfully we'd, you know, have a lot to complain about, but it, it goes on and it's, it's kind of my theme for today is, is sharing these things that are all-... available on Wikipedia. You know, I'm not, I'm not making them up. They're all real and I looked at them from the point of view of a criminologist, where I really lay out the evidence. And my purpose, my reason for doing this, today with you, also in a book, my reason is that I really want to encourage Americans to be skeptical. Because if you don't have skepticism, uh, the government runs us, we don't run the government.
- 6:28 – 7:44
Domestic propaganda, media influence, and information warfare
- JRJoe Rogan
Absolutely. Yeah, and it's, it's a strange time, uh, for that. Uh, you know, because first of all, one of the things that happened was the, the Smith Month, right? So when, during the Obama administration, when they made it legal to use propaganda on American citizens, that, that blurred the lines of truth and reality for all of us-
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... forever. And unless that is somehow or another rolled back, and I don't see any effort or any desire to roll it back, we're always gonna be stuck in this situation where it's absolutely legal for intelligence agencies to lie to us in the interest of national security.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah. That's where we are, for sure. There was... Uh, I, I know you already know about Project Mockingbird, but Project Mockingbird had, uh, hundreds of American journalists who were, in some cases, directly on the payroll of the CIA, and in other cases, just had great relationships and would, you know, float ideas inside the United States. It was shut down, uh, by the Church Committee, uh, uh, Senate committee, and, uh... But was it really shut down or did it just change its name? Because the reality is that today, unlike
- 7:44 – 10:32
Social media manipulation example: Saudi Twitter operations and narrative control
- GBGavin de Becker
in the past, all information is international. So if you start floating information overseas that's not true, it's gonna make its way to America. And does it make sense to do this? I remember when I was working on an investigation involving Saudi Arabia and their use of Twitter, misuse of Twitter. Twitter ended up canceling like 5,000 of their accounts because they were fake, you know, bots. But they were using Twitter to be able to, uh, float things so that they would, uh, you know, become viral and, and become important.
- JRJoe Rogan
What time period did it, was this?
- GBGavin de Becker
This is very recent, this is, uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
So was it X or Twitter? Was it when it was...
- GBGavin de Becker
It was Twitter.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- GBGavin de Becker
Uh, 2000, 2018, 2019. And they would get things to trend. And how would they do it? Well, when, when Twitter shut down their bots, they had 40,000 people sitting in their houses and they would send out the message of the day like, uh, "Jeff Bezos is the evil Jew..." He happens not to be Jewish. "Jeff Bezos is the evil Jew who's robbing us at night," et cetera, 'cause they were in a competition with Bezos over various things, and then it would trend. And so when I saw that happening with Twitter, I thought to myself, "Well, every country should do that." I don't mean I like it, I just mean it's, it's kind of obvious that if you have an opportunity to communicate with your population in a way that makes particularly young people in Saudi Arabia... They're the ones who are gonna come over the castle wall one day. Uh, uh, th- they... If you can control their perceptions, uh, of course, that's what every country in world history has done. Every country has a narrative, right? Ours was, when I was growing up, and you too, anybody can become president. You know, the government works for us. Uh, we don't work for the government, um, and, and other wonderful myths. So that was our narrative. In, uh, India's narrative, uh, is, um, uh, you know, the, the next life matters more than this one. In the next life, you'll have a good time. Maybe now you're homeless, maybe now you're one of the seven million homeless people in, uh, Mumbai, but your next life will be better. England's narrative, uh, the class structure. Just watch the king and queen, they're having such a good time, and the princes are having such a good time. That's good enough for you, isn't it? And so everybody has one, and they have these stories about how they control populations. Religion being, of course, the big one. Uh, now government is at war with religion. Our US government is not liking the Church anymore, is not liking other power centers. During COVID, you could go to a liquor store, you could go to a Target store, big air conditioning, keeping all the virus nice and cool and moving around, but you couldn't go to church. And even if you... They put the church outside, they wanted to stop the church. Now, why would governments not like the church? Because it's another power center. And so each power center, uh, needs to be knocked down.
- 10:32 – 18:12
COVID restrictions as a control experiment: division, compliance, and Event 201
- JRJoe Rogan
But is that why they did it? Because they also outlawed outdoor dining. Uh, they, in Los Angeles, it was outlaw comedy shows.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah, I'm gonna give you a pretty, uh, cynical answer. Yes, that's why they did it in general with... I mean, if you think about it, the Constitution gives particular protections to the Church, to religion. Uh, doesn't give particular protections to liquor stores or big box stores, and, uh, and yet that's what happened. But what about shows, for example? When you have a population that cannot gather for enjoyment, you know, we're all going to the concert and we're gonna watch this musical event, and none of us are gonna say, "Oh, that guy over there voted for Trump. I hate him," or, "That guy over there voted for, you know, Biden. That one's woke, that one's such and such." We just enjoy the show, right? We go to the beach, which was prohibited, remember? But we go to the beach, and I look over at you and your kids and your family, and you look over at mine, and we're having a good time. Nobody's judging anybody, we're just there to swim.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGavin de Becker
You can divide a country in the way that it happened with us during the COVID lockdowns. Uh, that is the source of power. Division is actually the source of power.
- JRJoe Rogan
But do you feel like this was done on purpose? Did you think that they were capitalizing on the event of COVID, or that they knew that a situation like this is, is an excellent opportunity for them to divide people further? Or was it just the fact that they had to act, at least... They, they had to at least give the guise of public safety? It, it had to at least be performative in that they were doing something.... the optics that was there, they were protecting people from the spread of this disease.
- GBGavin de Becker
Uh, i- i- well, I, uh, my best way to assess things is, um, rather than ever try to figure out what's in somebody's head, I just look at what actually happened. And what actually happened is that every western nation on earth put all its citizens under house arrest. Every nation on earth did what no opposing enemy could ever do to the United States. We just had everybody staying indoors, not gathering, hundreds of thousands of businesses closed, uh, people, uh, unable to do what they wanted to do, uh, and, and not free.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- GBGavin de Becker
So, I, I don't think there's any argument that during the COVID lockdowns, I'm not talking about the COVID disease, the COVID disease is this big, the lockdowns is this big.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- GBGavin de Becker
The lockdowns is as big an event as all the World Wars put together. The lockdowns caused a complete lesson in government control that the governments of the world, remember, it wasn't just ours, it was almost every country.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- GBGavin de Becker
Could do whatever they wanted. So do I believe it was intentional? Well, I don't have to back up to whether the release of the COVID virus was intentional, I just don't know. Uh, but the plans related to what would happen was clearly intentional, uh, you know, your viewers can look at, uh, and listeners, can look at, uh, at Operation, I mean at, at, uh, uh, 201, Event 201 online. I don't know if you've ever seen it on YouTube. It's a video of an event that Gates put on with the CIA, with the Chinese head of the CDC, Chinese CDC, with military leaders, with people from CBS, and they gathered together and they talked about what would happen in the event that there was a pandemic. And they named the pandemic and they did, uh, tabletop exercises about the pandemic. Any discussion about health, none. All of it was discussion about controlling the information. Why is this interesting? Because it was in 2019, my friend, before COVID came out, right? So, eh, late in 2019, these, these tabletop operations had already been going on for years. So I look at, and I, I really encourage people to consider this approach, which is forget about who did it, forget about twirling mustaches and villains, forget about Bill Gates and Fauci and all of that, just look at what actually happened. If we just look at what actually happened, uh, you have to assume somebody wanted that outcome, somebody somewhere. Might be one person, it might be groups, it might be unaligned people who share incentives. I'll give you a fast example. COVID comes, uh, people who used to make perfume sprayers now make hand sanitizers, people who used to make bumper stickers now make stickers that say stand six feet apart. In other words, every, uh, an incentive comes, and it doesn't require that those people all sat in a conspiratorial room at some hotel in, uh, y- you know, in Germany and m- rubbed their hands together and made the plan. Um, human nature, particularly when you centralize big governments, this is the direction it moves in, which is it moves in the direction of tyranny. When I was here before a few years ago, I made this point that's only been cemented in the interim, which is that if you look at world history as a big pie chart, all of it is tyranny, and there's just a tiny little sliver of the lives we've been blessed to, to live up until 2020, meaning a tiny sliver of freedom, Western Europe, the United States, and all the rest is tyranny, which means tyranny is the natural order for human beings. That's the way it normally is run.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you could easily argue that with history, right?
- GBGavin de Becker
Uh, of course. And, uh, y- you know, what you see is... Look, I, w- any suffering that I've done the last few years personally has been because of my resistance to let go of the illusions and delusions that I grew up with, you know, the courts will be fair, uh, the government will respect our freedom no matter what, the Constitution will be followed no matter what. Uh, it, it's hard to l- to let go of that stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
It, it's not easy and, and, uh, I still have resistance to it. That's why I look at Gladio, which I just told you about, and I say, "Holy shit, can you believe this?" Well, we, we have to be able to believe all of it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it... It's just so, there's so many layers to it, it's very difficult for regular people.
- GBGavin de Becker
What is a regular person?
- JRJoe Rogan
A regular person is a person who has a job, an interest, and family, and d- hasn't spent an inordinate amount of time delving into conspiracies and being rational about it and being objective and saying, "I know that every fiber of my being rejects this as foolishness and tinfoil hat bullshit, but is this real?" And then the more you find out, oh my God, that is real, and the more you find out, Operation Northwoods, holy fuck, that's real, the more, the more you find out about these things, MKUltra, you go, "W- what? Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute."
- GBGavin de Becker
(laughs) .
- JRJoe Rogan
"No one e- got arrested for any of this? Nobody went to jail, nobody got prosecuted, nobody got tried." The more you dig into the JFK assassination, the more you dig into everything, and it, it, it, it, it is a bottomless pit that if you haven't breached the surface of it, you have no idea how much depth there is to it, and that's the normal person. Most people-
- GBGavin de Becker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, most people took the shot because they wanted to keep their job-
- GBGavin de Becker
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
... or they took the shot because they have to travel to see relatives, or they had to visit loved ones in the hospital, or whatever the, whatever the reason was. They did what they had to do, and, you know, they know people that got fucked up because of the shot, maybe they got fucked up because of the shot, and they feel helpless and they don't know what to do. But I don't think they understand the depths of, first of all, not just the COVID p- pandemic, but what happened during the AIDS pandemic with the exact same power structure. And when you find that out, I mean, we, we went over Peter Duesberg's work the other day and-
- GBGavin de Becker
Oh, I'm so glad.
- 18:12 – 20:05
Sponsor break: AG1
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, and we showed th- the article in Spin Magazine that, uh, was talking about these various doctors that stepped...... ba- stepped out against the use of AZT, and, like, what was going on, and how, how evil it was, and the only reason why they were doing it was because these are drugs that had already been approved, and they could just push them through quickly, and they were very profitable. All right. How's your schedule looking? Feeling busy? Got a lot on the horizon? Well, yeah, it's that time of year when life gets crazy and demands more of your energy, more work, more plans, holiday travel, all while it's getting darker and colder. It can really drain your energy, or you can get out ahead of it. Listen, I talk a lot about AG1. It's the daily health drink that can help you stay one scoop ahead of all the energy drains coming your way this season, because the super foods and B vitamins in every scoop of AG1 supports steady energy production without the crash. In fact, just shaking up one scoop of AG1 in water covers your multivitamin, your pre and probiotics, antioxidants, super foods, and more. It's one simple step to start your day ahead of anything that might come your way, and that's why I've partnered with them for so long. Subscribe today to get this clinically backed formula in the flavor of your choice, tropical, citrus, berry, or original to help you stay one scoop ahead. If you use my link, you'll also get a free bottle of AG D3 K2, an AG1 welcome kit, plus a few bonus AG1 travel packs. Just head to drinkag1.com/jorogan or visit the link in the description to get started. That's drinkag1.com/jorogan.
- 20:05 – 34:15
AIDS, AZT, and contested HIV narratives (House of Numbers, Duesberg, PCR debate)
- GBGavin de Becker
I think there's a darker reason, and the darker reason for overdosing on AZT is that it provides exactly the symptoms of AIDS that you're gonna die from.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
And so it, it keeps the... You know, the great documentary, it's on YouTube, is called House of Numbers, about this. It keeps the numbers going.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- GBGavin de Becker
You can turn the numbers up or down just by changing the definition of what is AIDS. Fauci had his definition, but in that documentary, it's Fauci and Redfield, they're all young.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
It's one of their first rounds, i- in this world, and they're making the case that, uh, that, uh, HIV is the absolute cause of AIDS, even though literally the guy who got the Nobel Prize for concluding that feels that you can have AIDS without HIV and you can have HIV without AIDS. I've raised 10 kids. I have two teenage kids. One of my older boys, uh, boys, about 31 years old now, uh, tested positive for HIV. Uh, right away come the drugs. Uh, and, uh, and he and I met about it. We watched this documentary called House of Numbers, and, uh, he decided no medication. He's really healthy. He's in the sun a lot. He's having a calm and, and wonderful life. He lives in Fiji, so he's out in, in the tropics a lot. And when he took the medication for three weeks, he felt really shitty. It wasn't AZT. It's the newer cocktail.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- GBGavin de Becker
But he felt really shitty. When he stopped, uh, he feels great, and we'll see how things go, but the idea that they were trying to push was if you test positive for HIV, they, they say it point-blank, "You will die from this disease and there's nothing that can stop it except these drugs." And, uh, that turns out not to be true.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's a lot of things they said that turned out, not to be true.
- GBGavin de Becker
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They thought that your children would get it, people in the household would get it.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That it was spread... That it could be spread aerosol. You know, there was a... The, the Duesberg thing is fascinating, because this all took place in a time with no internet, no pushback, no conspiracy theorists online to connect the dots, and his assertion was... First of all, there was the inconvenient fact that the vast majority of the people that got, air quotes, "AIDS" all were hardcore drug users. There were these partiers in the gay community, and anybody that knows anything about drug use knows that if you're a hardcore drug user and you're staying up all night and you're partying, guess what? You're gonna crush your immune system.
- GBGavin de Becker
And, you know, they were taking antibiotics, which were at the parties in big bowls.
- JRJoe Rogan
Antibiotics?
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah. Because they had al-... This was a tremendous amount of sex. It was almost a statement of freedom, uh, in the gay rights movement, and the, uh, people had all kinds of infections. So they were scooping up antibiotics and taking antibiotics, and of course AIDS is real. They destroyed their immune system, no question about it. And poppers and, and Duesberg-
- JRJoe Rogan
Poppers is the big one, right?
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Amyl nitrate.
- GBGavin de Becker
Well, poppers certainly causes the specific, uh, respiratory issue that was associated with AIDS, and they kept changing, you know, the, uh, the NIH and CDC kept changing the definition along the way. And there's a great line in, uh, in The Real Anthony Fauci, a book I know you read.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
Where Bobby says, "If you get diagnosed with AIDS in Africa, the fastest way to get cured is go to New York. You won't be diagnosed with AIDS." Totally different diagnostic method. In Africa, it's mostly women. In the United States, it's mostly men. And the diagnostic method in Africa includes asking you on a questionnaire whether you've engaged in gay sex. What does that have to do with a, with an AIDS test? I took an AIDS test when I was younger and thought, "Well, this is a test, like a pregnancy test, right?" You, you test positive, that means you're positive. Negative means negative. That wasn't the tr-... It, it was a highly interpretive test. And by the way, this documentary I mentioned a couple of times called House of Numbers, for, uh, for its humorous value, I have to also add that anybody who looks for it on YouTube, be sure you have the one that is the correct one, because the adversaries have put up another documentary and titled it House of Numbers.
- JRJoe Rogan
They did the same thing with Turtles All the Way Down.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah. It's cl-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
... very clever. And then that one debunks the... You know, that one-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- GBGavin de Becker
... debunks the other one. So it's, uh, it's, it's House of Numbers by a great filmmaker named Brent Lueng, L-U-E-N-G, and it's just a totally enjoyable... Enjoyable, is that the right word? But informative, uh, documentary on another one of these-... sacred cows that we are not allowed to question, because-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the Duesberg one was the first time that I ever had someone on as a podcast guest where I got massive pushback. People were like-
- 34:15 – 36:39
Sponsor break: Black Rifle Coffee Company
- JRJoe Rogan
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- GBGavin de Becker
That's correct.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
And, uh, there's a, a documentary right now called, by the way, An Inconvenient Study. Uh, see that as quick as you can. It's free on, on, uh, uh, YouTube because some sponsors just paid for it. Um, but that is about a, uh, a study done by the Ford Medical Center, Henry Ford Medical Center, uh, comparing vaccinated kids to unvaccinated kids. It's a very, very interesting documentary. And the, and where the... After the study is done, uh, they decide not to release it, and, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I read about that.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah, it's really good. There's, there, I don't wanna spoil anything, uh, uh, the, uh, but just tell you some good stuff is, you know, hidden camera interview with the guy who says, "I just can't. I just can't. My career would be over. I'm just not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it." Well, people try to persuade him to release the study that would... It, yes, it would help a lot of people. "I agree it would help a lot of people, and I agree it's important, but I can't. I've had enough. I can't. I can't." And he doesn't, uh, and it's, uh... So this, you know, this kind of thing...You got the stomach for another one?
- NANarrator
Sure.
- 36:39 – 49:38
“Debunking” machinery: Institute of Medicine, Agent Orange delays, and SIDS logic games
- GBGavin de Becker
I'll give you a big one. So, 'cause you mentioned AIDS. AIDS is like gravity, you're not allowed to question it.
- NANarrator
Right.
- GBGavin de Becker
It's, you know, it's a, a-
- NANarrator
It's the Holocaust.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah, Holocaust, gravity, moon landing, uh, Hitler, by the way, killed, uh, was he killed by the Russians? Well, turns out the skull fragment belonged to a woman in her 30s. Uh, isn't it a, a narrative? Meaning, this is the only guy who didn't have an escape plan? Everybody else went to Argentina. They even took whole submarines all the way to Argentina on two-month trips that were found weeks after the war, they were still finding submarines in Argentina. But this one guy, even though, uh, there's a pilot who testified that he flew him out of Germany, flew him out of Berlin, why would anybody lie about that? Well, because the Russians are coming into Berlin and you've hardly conquered anything if the Osama bin Laden hasn't been caught, if Hitler is, is free and is somewhere in the world. Um, but that narrative is really interesting for people to dig into. Get on, get on Grok or get on ChatGPT. You know, quick, quick note on ChatGPT and Grok. The first answer you get will usually be the, uh, orthodox answer, the approved answer. You have to keep asking. You have to say, "Look again." You have to push the thing. And, and then you'll get remarkable information that way. You still have to check it all, 'cause the thing has delusions, you know, as we know. But my point is that all these things that are, uh, we're not allowed to question because they are just facts like gravity. Well, a big one is, uh, vaccines cannot be linked to autism. We all know that. That's like we know it just like we know gravity, just like we know the earth rotates around the, the sun. How do we know it? Now suddenly when you say, "Who debunked it and how was it debunked?" all of a sudden nobody can answer your question. Not a single pediatrician you'll ever meet can answer that question. So I'm gonna answer it today. How do we know? Who debunked it? It was debunked by the Institute of Medicine and, uh, uh, how they debunked it I'll talk about in a minute 'cause it's funny. But, uh, what is the Institute of Medicine? Well, everybody knows that's a big important revered organization all about science, part of the National Academies of Science, government organization. Guess what? Private organization, not a government organization. The Institute of Medicine and the National Academy of Sciences, both completely private organizations, sometimes funded by government and sometimes funded by pharma. And so they, they debunked it, and, and the way they debunked it is by having, same way they used for Agent Orange. So, why, why I want to talk about Agent Orange for a second... Is a long answer okay?
- NANarrator
Sure.
- GBGavin de Becker
Okay. If I can even remember the question. Uh, but (laughs) but here's the, the Agent Orange piece, it's, it's good for people to hear because they're not emotional about it. Right? They're emotional about AIDS, they're very emotional about vaccines and COVID and what have you, but Agent Orange people have pretty much forgotten about. What happens is Agent Orange is, uh, used to, uh, defoliate forests and jungles in Vietnam, but it's actually a chemical weapon. The US government denies that it's a chemical weapon but they know that they tested it, it has dioxin in it, and they tested it on 40 unlucky monkeys. Now these monkeys in these medical tests, they are always unlucky. (laughs) They very rarely come out feeling fine. Of these 40, 37 died within a week. So the US government knew they had something here that was quite toxic, but they spray it all over Vietnam and our troops, um, get very, very sick, they have children with de- uh, deformities, they come and they complain to the US government, and the US government takes that monkey study, stamps it top secret and hides it all the way till 2000-something, uh, when they s- go to the Institute of Medicine and they say, uh, uh, "Study this thing." So the Institute of Medicine, I'm just gonna look at my notes 'cause I wanna get it right, the Institute of Medicine does a, a study and the conclusion of their 2001 study, very powerful conclusion: more studies needed. That's what they conclude for all these people who are waiting for compensation and waiting to have the answers. To be sure, with that bullshit answer, "More studies needed," they do another study in 2006, and then one in 2008, and one in 2010, and one in 2012, and one in 2014, and they all come up with the same conclusion: more studies needed. And this is one of the methods used by the, by the US government to, uh, to drag things out to where the people who are making the complaint about Gulf War syndrome, also debunked by the Institute of Medicine o- o- or Agent Orange, uh, have died or given up. And there's a bunch of examples of this. And so it took the Institute of Medicine 22 years to debunk this thing. And finally, the, uh, very famous Admiral Zumwalt did an independent study, and he goes and testifies before Congress, and I'm gonna read it, he says, "Government and industry officials intentionally manipulated or withheld compelling information about the adverse health effects from Agent Orange." And why was his testimony so important? Because he is the person who ordered the use of Agent Orange and because his own son died from it.
- NANarrator
Jesus.
- GBGavin de Becker
So you look at that and then you say, w- if people listening to me and you now can embrace the idea that, hey, maybe the government does that sometimes, if you can just take that on board, then maybe you can recognize that when the Institute of Medicine does the same thing with the same methods for the same money paid by the same people with the same experts for the same reasons, then maybe you can say, "What about the other stuff they did?" Like, uh, vaccines and autism, which is really vaccines and brain damage, which we know vaccines cause. It's on every, uh, e- e- every package insert for many, many vaccines, meaning they already acknowledge brain damage. The issue is autism which is a clever definition, very complicated, uh-... 12,000 words in the Wikipedia article on autism, just to define it, a- and they fail, 400 citations and they end by saying, "Oh, we can't get it." Uh, so it's, it's one of these things that you can't hit with an arrow because the definition is so o- obtuse. But anyway, Institute of Medicine, they did the same thing for cancer from, uh, baby powder, which is a great story I wanna tell you. Gulf War syndrome, silicone implants, anthrax vaccines, burn pits, and SIDS, all debunked. Now, what do they have in common? The government didn't like it. They were gonna have to pay compensation. I mean, (sighs) the, it, the, some of this is funny. SIDS, how did they debunk SIDS? SIDS is the term, the category that you assign when a baby's death cannot be determined what it is. You've done an autopsy, you've done an investigation, you've dragged the poor parents to the police station, you've done all that stuff, and you cannot decide how this baby died. So the Institute of Medicine could look at SIDS, which is a category of death, you can't be diagnosed with it, you can't die from it, it's a category. And they said, "We don't know what causes SIDS, but we sure know what doesn't cause it. Multiple vaccines. That we're sure of." And this is the, the style of bullshit that goes on with-
- JRJoe Rogan
But there's a correlation in terms of multiple vaccines and the amount of time period afterwards where a baby dies of sudden infant death syndrome.
- GBGavin de Becker
Oh, I have no doubt that sudden infant death syndrome is often caused by multiple vaccines. I have no doubt about it. And the, uh, uh, you know, that's for a- another show and a lot of it, this book I wrote, a lot of it's in here. Like, they really, you know, I really get into explaining that, that fact. But the broader point is you don't have to prove SIDS and you don't have to say COVID vaccines are a problem or, uh, or vaccines might cause, you know, the mercury in vaccines, uh, or other vaccines might cause brain damage because once you break the system that they use for this debunking, once you get into understanding how this works, can I tell you baby powder real quick?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I know about baby powder.
- GBGavin de Becker
Okay, so-
- JRJoe Rogan
Go ahead.
- GBGavin de Becker
... Johnson & Johnson baby powder, they go to the FDA and they say, "We have to tell you something we're a little concerned about, we have found some cancer-causing asbestos in our baby powder and we're acknowledging it and we wanna know what to do." And the FDA says, "Well, we're gonna study how much cancer-causing asbestos is okay in baby powder." So they study that for 44 years and they, they never consider maybe zero, I mean, I had babies, I'd like zero cancer-causing asbestos in the baby powder. They never thought about zero. But they study it for 44 years because time flies when you're, when you're, you know, covering up something, and the FDA finally ruled on it in the year of 2024, about 10 months ago, after 52 years. They knew it for 52, I wanna say f- effing but I won't swear, 52 years and, uh, uh, Johnson & Johnson (laughs) by the way still claims, "Our baby powder doesn't cause cancer," which is the worst advertising slogan (laughs) in the history of the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Are, so the, the problem was in the places where they're mining talc, the, the talc and asbestos are often together. That's, that was the problem, correct?
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah, but they were able to solve the problem now because there's still Johnson & Johnson baby powder, it's just not made with talc. And they knew this, you know, 52 years ago and companies like Johnson & Johnson-
- JRJoe Rogan
W- can I stop you?
- GBGavin de Becker
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
What does the baby powder have in it now if it doesn't have talc?
- GBGavin de Becker
I think it's corn starch.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- GBGavin de Becker
And, and might be other stuff, uh, uh, I don't know. But, you know, Gulf War syndrome done the same way.
- JRJoe Rogan
That was depleted uranium, correct?
- GBGavin de Becker
Uh, Gulf War syndrome?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- GBGavin de Becker
It could be a few things. Uh, y- there was also, uh, a, an ingredient in a vaccine given, uh, called squalene, which is in childhood vaccines today, it comes from shark's liver which is what you ought to be wanting to inject into, into babies whenever you can. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- GBGavin de Becker
... uh, you know, the, uh, in a minute I'm, I'm gonna get into something really funny. But, but I wanna say that when a child, a- dies and vaccines are even a suspect, when it's possible, the, uh, powers that be say, "Look, millions of vaccines were given and those people are all okay." As if they did some, you know, house-to-house survey (laughs) , which of course they didn't do. But that's not how we handle air crashes. We don't say, "Oh, oh, millions of passengers are fine, don't worry about those 400 who were, who were dead in that plane crash." What do we do? We get the black boxes, we reassemble the plane, we reconstruct what happened and, you know, they're extensively studied. If we used for plane crashes, my point is the millions don't matter, the few matter, meaning the ones who suffer, that's where you wanna be doing your research, not the millions who didn't have any problem. And imagine that we took the same approach that pharma takes when we have a, a, you know, a jetliner crash. Uh, you know, pharma would say, let's say a flight from New York to London goes down in the Atlantic 20 minutes before reaching Heathrow Airport, right? Pharma would say, uh, "The flight was 95% effective."
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- 49:38 – 1:06:30
Vaccine risk-benefit by product: tetanus, polio, mumps, and “one-size-fits-all” messaging
- GBGavin de Becker
Well, I just wanna talk about a couple of these. Tetanus vaccine. Um, in the United States, the number of people who died from tetanus in a decade is 13. 13 human beings. All old, by the way. The number of people who got tetanus in a decade, 154. My point on t- tetanus is that all over the world, there's a map in this book, uh, all over the world, the tetanus ... How do you get tetanus first of all? It's not transmissible, as you may know. Everybody thinks you get it from a deep puncture wound with a rusty nail or what have you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGavin de Becker
Rust does not give you tetanus. It's a, it is a bacteria called the tetanus bacteria, and that you gotta find it, first of all, and you take an army to find it in the United States, by the way. You almost, y- you know, you, you won't find a doctor who's ever had a patient with tetanus in the United States. All over the world, it is fewer than one in a million people. In the United States, in all of Central America and South America, all 22 countries, you can't find it. Fewer than one in 100,000 people getting tetanus. I'm not talking about death. In Russia, one death in 2022. In all of Europe, a few deaths. I- but in the Congo? A lot. So this is one of those things that you have to ask, what's the likelihood of risk? And you have to say, does it, uh, does it work? And does it work without, uh, any, without any side effects? Well, here's the reality. If I get a serious injury, uh, deep puncture wound, right? And I go to the hospital, uh, they clean it, and I'm done right there. Cleaning it is the end of it, but let's say they fail to clean it well. They always offer you a tetanus vaccine anyway, right there. Even if you had one a year ago. There's never a circumstance where they don't try to get you to take a tetanus vaccine. So tetanus is the beautiful vaccine you can take at the time of the injury. You don't have to take it prophylactically. Five injections to little babies. Little babies. You don't have to do that, so each one of these vaccines, each one of these a different product. And so polio. By the way, as I (laughs) head down the, the polio rabbit hole for a second, I wanna say it is another one of these sacred cows, right? Because everybody-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- GBGavin de Becker
... says, "You don't want polio coming back."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGavin de Becker
But here's the reality of polio right from the CDC website. 99% of people who get polio never have any symptoms.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know, that's crazy.
- GBGavin de Becker
The typical symptom... Uh, you had Humphreys on, so you know some of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
The typical symptom is, uh, is having a cold for a week, having sniffles. Um, number of deaths in the world, planet Earth, eight billion people, number of deaths last year from, from, uh, polio, you wanna guess?
- JRJoe Rogan
30. Zero.
- GBGavin de Becker
Zero. Number of polio cases of the real terrible outcome, which is paralysis, which is the only bad outcome, uh, 500 on the planet Earth, half of whom recovered. You can recover from it on top of everything else. So you have 99% won't have any symptoms. Of the 1%, 1% of them will have poliomyelitis, which is the paralysis, and of the 500 I just told you about, 564 in 2022, 97% of them were vaccine-induced poliomyelitis, meaning they were the strain from the vaccine.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's an inconvenient truth.
- GBGavin de Becker
That's an inconvenient truth right from the CDC website.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, when you tell people that they go, "Wait a minute, what are you saying?" Yeah, the vaccine is giving people polio, and, you know, Alex Jones of all people told us that on the podcast a long time ago that they had to stop-
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... giving it to children in the Congo because they were getting polio from the vaccine.
- GBGavin de Becker
It's the only place they were getting polio.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he pulled up an AP article-
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and we're watching this AP article where it shows this oral, their or- oral administration of polio to these little children, and y- it turns out a bunch of them got polio from it, and it's something like-
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... of all the cases of polio, I believe it's 94% of cases are vaccine-induced polio?
- GBGavin de Becker
97%.
- JRJoe Rogan
97%.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
And, and, and by the way, you know, e- even people hearing my voice right now and yours who can go to, uh, you know, the CDC website or who can look this up, i- in this book, by the way, I, uh, just to find a, a random page here, but all the pages have... I don't know where's the camera. All have QR codes, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 1:06:30 – 1:14:23
What’s inside vaccines, SV40, and why pharma trust is contested
- GBGavin de Becker
Okay. So, how does it start? Vaccine, it means, you know, it started from the word cow, vacca, it meant cow. So, they would take pus, cow pus, you don't wanna waste that stuff, and they would rub that into wounds on people. And then they decided, "Oh, maybe we can put horse pus and cow pus from an infected horse's hoof, we'll rub that in," and they tried that. And for a long time, they were experimenting with all these things. Some old-timey...... uh, vaccines were made by, I'm gonna read it so I get it right, steeping them for years in a mix of ox bile and glycerin and potato slices. Sounds like a joke, right? But it's true. But science moved on, and it evolved to where vaccines included dried rabbit spinal cords, duck embryos, chicken blood, human bile, 'cause you don't wanna waste that, um, ground up rat spleens, and boiled pig skin. So, that's old time vaccines before we knew anything about anything. So, let's switch to the modern day vaccines, 'cause obviously now we're real smart and we know a lot of stuff. Well, here is what's in your childhood vaccines right now. Gelatin from boiled pig skin, kinda like the old one. Chicken embryo protein, blood from the hearts of cow fetuses, um, DNA fragments from human fetuses, oil extracted from shark livers, I mentioned earlier, proteins from worm ovaries, 'cause you don't wanna leave that out, uh, and of course DNA fragments from monkey kidneys. Now, if that doesn't sound like a Shakespeare play, you know that, "eye of newt-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. (laughs)
- GBGavin de Becker
... uh, toe of frog, lizard's leg, tongue of dog." When I hear that thing from Macbeth, I literally ... Can't you just picture Gates and Offit and Hotez sitting around-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- GBGavin de Becker
... in their witches brew, putting this stuff together? I know I'm talking fast. I'm almost done. Uh, the other modern ingredients in childhood vaccines, this is what you are giving if you trust the, uh, vaccine manufacturers. Formaldehyde, we already know that's bad. Polysorbate 80, which is linked to infertility. And my absolute favorite, potassium chloride. Why is this my favorite? Because, that is the chemical that is injected as the third injection in lethal injections by executioners. Now admittedly, infants get far less of it than people who are executing, but we really wanna be injecting any amount of that into human beings? Sodium borate, Triton X, that's, uh, what's in spermicides, and of course until very recently, uh, ethyl mercury.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what is the reason why they have so many different ingredients?
- GBGavin de Becker
So, I got it in this ... I, I, I got it in this book, holding up, shameless plug. I got it in this book because, uh ... It's too long for now, but they have ... You can get it from ChatGPT. They have an ex- what I would have to call a kind of insane reason for each of these, right? I mean, you just heard what they are. Uh, I mean, they're, they're, they're nuts. And, uh, the, uh, people say, "Well, I'm not a scientist. You don't realize how very important each one of those ingredients is." Well, I do realize something, and I don't have to be a scientist. I don't want mercury injected into my kids, period. If a ... When I was a kid, if a, if a, a light fell and broke on the floor, you had to call a hazmat team to get rid of it, because it had mercury. You can't touch it, you can't breathe it, you can't eat it, but you can inject it into babies. It's actually ... It's crazy. And, and ver- m- you know, vaccinologists, there's a degree of mad science here. Uh, there's a degree of craziness. And again, I'm still not anti-vax, that's not the point. The point is, learn which products you think matter, 'cause they're not all the same.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what are they saying is the reason why they have all these different ingredients, like monkey kidneys and ...
- GBGavin de Becker
(laughs) Well, some of them are ... I mean, it's not ... The one that's not funny, of course, is SV40.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGavin de Becker
Because Simian Virus 40, most people don't know, was in the first, uh, polio vaccine, which was recalled, and then it was in the second polio vaccine, which was put out to replace the one that had Simian Virus 40. It was in that, and it's in the Pfizer COVID vaccine.
- JRJoe Rogan
And-
- GBGavin de Becker
SV40 fragments.
- JRJoe Rogan
And i- if you could explain how that happened.
- GBGavin de Becker
Well, they will claim that they were ... That, that to grow, the, uh, pathogen needs to be in some kind of organic material, and that monkey kidneys is a good way to do it. So Simian Virus 40 accidentally, they claim, accidentally got into it. Let me tell you what they claim for mercury, 'cause it's a good story too. They say that it's a preservative, and that they needed it for multi-dose vials of the flu vaccine s- uh, w- not legal in, uh, in the UK, not in Denmark, not in Sweden, not in Switzerland, but for some reason in the United States it's okay, until Bobby Kennedy took it out. Uh, I mean that, uh, committee that Robert Malone is on, the ACIP committee that decides on childhood vaccines. So, why is this stuff in there? Well, two reasons. One is that once they get a vaccine approved, the last thing they wanna do is come back to the FDA and start that process all over again to get a better vaccine approved.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause it'll cost billions of dollars.
- GBGavin de Becker
'Cause it'll cost a lot, because it ... Now, it won't-
- JRJoe Rogan
Takes a long time.
- GBGavin de Becker
And it won't get passed.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGavin de Becker
Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGavin de Becker
Right now, the ACIP committee, I mean, r- it's happening right now. There's a new Moderna vaccine, and the ACIP committee i- is, is saying to FDA, "Give me all the information on this vaccine before we approve it." And, uh, there is no safety, no viable safety information on these vaccines, uh, particularly the childhood vaccines, there never was. As you learn from Turtles All The Way Down, never a st- uh, uh, a viable study on these, and the studies they did would be, uh, some of them for five days, some of them for 14 days. And, and I'm interested in going a little longer than that when it comes to my kids, meaning to know whether they had adverse reactions.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they would always quote, they'd always say that there have been numerous studies and that these studies are published, and then when RFK pushed them on this and forced them to reveal the fact that no, there, there weren't any studies that showed it.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah, and there were no ... Th- they had never done a study, there are now three, but not done by the government, of comparing vaccinated kids to unvaccinated kids for all health outcomes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- GBGavin de Becker
If you, if you give a kid a measles vaccine, i- it'll stop him from getting measles for many years. It, it works. But does it also have other adverse effects, right? So, uh, the three studies have been done, uh, and many, many more problems among vaccinated kids unrelated to the disease they're for, I'm talking about asthma and ADHD and neurological problems and, uh, a- and, and visits to the pediatrician. It's the easiest study in the world to do, 'cause you go to a big company like Kaiser, they got the kid, they know he went in for a vaccine or didn't, and they know how many visits he had to the pediatrician-And so, they can look very easily at it. It's not a hard project to do, and that's what Bobby and, uh, uh, Del Bigtree both went to get done by CDC and NIH. And, uh, that's the meeting where Fauci said, "Oh, yeah, I have that study," and he did this, looking through a file box. "Oh, oh, I can't find it. I'll send it to you."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
And then, they had to sue to get it. And right before the g- showing up in court, they get the letter, "Oh, there is no such study."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 1:14:23 – 1:40:11
The censorship/penalty problem and coping with “dark” truths
- GBGavin de Becker
Okay, thanks. I- in this, a- a lot of this stuff is dark. And I'm, like anybody else, I'm subject to getting bummed out-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
... by, uh, by like, "Holy shit, this stuff goes on." And- and I'm getting a little better because if I accept that it's true, um, I- I stop being shocked and I stop being, uh, you know, vulnerable to the, to the impact of it. What are you doing on that subject? How do you deal with it?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- GBGavin de Becker
Humor is a good answer, by the way, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, humor is probably the number one. Yeah. I give myself lots of other things to do.
- GBGavin de Becker
(clicks tongue)
- JRJoe Rogan
And I think about-
- GBGavin de Becker
(sighs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... other things. You know? I just try not to dwell on it too much.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But yeah, you can get really bummed out. You can get bummed out by the depth of the corruption, and- and how f- many people who are intelligent people, who think they're doing the right thing, have become ministers of propaganda, whether they realize it or not. And how easy it is to dismiss anybody who asks questions about these very questionable things.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's very disturbing, and it- it alienates a lot of people. There's a lot of people that I can't talk to about certain subjects, because they'll just spout out some propaganda and some nonsense, and I have to go, (sighs) "That's not true." And it's provably not true. We- I could show you in five minutes that that's not true. You know how many people I freaked the fuck out when I told them that 99% of polio is asymptomatic? And I go, "I'm gonna show you right now. We'll just put it in Google," and then I just show it to them.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, how crazy is that? That's crazy.
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And- and then, you- you get a little of them opening their eyes, but then they go right back into the trance, for the most part. Most people go right back into the trance, because it's too difficult to admit that this entire system is insanely corrupt and it all functions by money and incentives. And they are more than willing to not just give people bad hea- health outcomes, but sacrifice human lives that would not have died because of profit. And they do that sh- in a huge number of humans. There's a huge number of humans that will die this year because someone has decided that telling the truth is inconvenient, because it stops them from making a profit, and so they will lie, and they will prescribe things that don't need to be s- prescribed because there's incentives. And there will be all sorts of, besi- besides death, all sorts of horrific health outcomes-
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that could've been completely avoided. And then, completely ignore any study like the Henry Ford study or any of these oth- other studies that show that, like, when they study the Amish, when they find out the only Amish that turned out to have autism are the ones that were adopted-
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah, and vaccinated.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and vaccinated.
- GBGavin de Becker
I- I actually think there is only one case like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- GBGavin de Becker
Uh, and so, the- the Amish have, uh, I don't remember the numbers, but it's- it's like 70,000 times less, uh, autism, uh, when you do all the math.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, what the hell is that? And how is that not freaking people out? Like, how many people will just bury their head in the sand and say, "Vaccines do not cause autism. This has been debunked."
- GBGavin de Becker
Yeah, debunked.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, I follow Peter Hotez on Twitter, and they'll just spout it out and then go about their life. They'll put their blinders on, fasten them securely to the side of their head, and plow forward. That's the majority of people. Because the- there's a reality about human beings. Most people are cowards because they haven't had to not be a coward. They haven't had to test themselves against something terrifying.
- GBGavin de Becker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so most people, when they encounter something that's scary, they fold. Most people. That's why we admire people that don't.
Episode duration: 2:29:49
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Transcript of episode u04t4fkBIeM
