Joe Rogan Experience #2438 - John Mellencamp

1. 0:02 – 1:35

   Tattoos, a mid-’80s Indiana tattoo parlor, and a heroin-addict artist

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] Okay, cool.

   4. JMJohn Mellencamp0:13

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Why, why would I hate my tattoos?

   6. JMJohn Mellencamp0:16

      Because you get older, and they get all smudgy, and-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      Mine are getting kind of smudgy.

   8. JMJohn Mellencamp0:21

      Yeah, well look at-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      I don't mind them.

   10. JMJohn Mellencamp0:22

       Look at this one.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       It's pretty smudgy. [laughing] Pretty fucking smudgy.

   12. JMJohn Mellencamp0:28

       [laughing] I, I owned a tattoo parlor in, uh, I don't know what year it was, mid-'80s, and they were illegal in Indiana, but because it was me, they said, "Okay, leave him alone."

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Really?

   14. JMJohn Mellencamp0:42

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       I remember when they were illegal in New York. I used to-- I went to Connecticut to get my first tattoo.

   16. JMJohn Mellencamp0:48

       Yeah, I, uh, I didn't know it was illegal, but I met this guy in LA, and, uh, he worked at Sunset, you know, where the Hyatt House is, and there was a tattoo parlor right across the street. Anyway, he was there, and, uh, so I brought him to Bloomington 'cause he wanted to get out of LA, and guess why they closed me down?

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       Why?

   18. JMJohn Mellencamp1:14

       Fucking guy was a heroin addict. [laughing]

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       [laughing]

   20. JMJohn Mellencamp1:18

       I know, and he did this tattoo one time, and I went over-- I just went over to the shop. I said, "Hey, let's do this little..." And he was all fucked up, [chuckles] and it was just like, "What's wrong with him?" You know, 'cause I didn't know. I don't know anything about heroin addicts, so...

2. 1:35 – 3:46

   Heroin then vs. now: opiates, functional addiction, and first exposures

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:35

      There wasn't a lot of heroin addicts back then. That was a rare thing. Now, when you think about how many people are... Because of the Sackler family, think of how many people are hooked on opiates today. I mean, it's gotta be, uh-

   2. JMJohn Mellencamp1:47

      Lots.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:49

      It's off the charts in comparison to what it was like in, you know, the 1980s. There's-- I mean, I knew one guy that, uh, had a friend who did heroin. That's it.

   4. JMJohn Mellencamp2:01

      Well, I was at a... The first time I saw somebody do heroin was, uh, I was in college, and there was a place called Bull Island that tried to imitate Woodstock, and me, and my then wife, and my kid, my little girl, and, uh, and my roommate, who lived with us, we're just walking down, [chuckles] and we see this guy shooting up, so we just thought, "Well, we'll watch."

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:31

      [laughing]

   6. JMJohn Mellencamp2:33

      'Cause he was just sitting right there, and, uh, I mean, I-- there was, like, two hundred thousand people there. And he shot, and he went out. And I looked at the guy I was with and go, "Well, we won't be doing this." [laughing]

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:49

      [laughing]

   8. JMJohn Mellencamp2:49

      "We're not gonna do this."

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:52

      I had a friend who was a longshoreman, and he worked with this guy that every lunchtime, he would go and score, and sit in his truck, and shoot up, and that's what he did every lunch. He was a functional heroin addict, and he would show up for work every day, and he did his job. But, uh, during lunchtime, during his hour, he would do heroin and just fucking find his happy place and then an hour later, go back to work.

   10. JMJohn Mellencamp3:23

       And he, and, and the one shot would last all day?

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       I don't know. I don't know if he did hero- I didn't ask if he did heroin after that as well. I'm assuming he probably did, but he was a functional heroin addict. Like, guy kept a full job. He was in the union, and everybody knew. This guy would go on his break, shoot up.

3. 3:46 – 8:00

   Quitting drugs and alcohol in 1973: bar fights, humiliation, and rock-bottom clarity

   1. JMJohn Mellencamp3:46

      Last time I did drugs was 1973.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:53

      What was the reason you stopped? [chuckles]

   3. JMJohn Mellencamp3:55

      You want to hear?

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:56

      Yeah, yeah. [laughing]

   5. JMJohn Mellencamp3:58

      Well, I used to like to smoke and drink whiskey, and then I liked to fight.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:08

      Oh, that's a problem.

   7. JMJohn Mellencamp4:10

      I couldn't whip anybody.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:11

      [laughing]

   9. JMJohn Mellencamp4:13

      I could, I could-- But I loved the contact and the, the, the, the rush of, like, you know, starting the fight. But so anyway, [chuckles] I was in college, and my roommate and I went to this downtown bar, which we'd never been to, and I sat down at the bar, and I would start these fights, you know, just a prick. And, uh, I was sitting next to this big guy, and, uh, for whatever reason, I thought it was a good idea if I spit on him.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:51

       Oh!

   11. JMJohn Mellencamp4:52

       One of those guys. You know, you know those guys that get drunk and-

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       Oh, yeah.

   13. JMJohn Mellencamp4:57

       Yeah. Well, that was me.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:59

       [laughing]

   15. JMJohn Mellencamp5:00

       So I did, and we went out back, and he left me in the alley like a wet rag. I mean, he beat the shit out of me. Beat the shit out of me, and I was a hippie. I had hair down to here, and they-- the guy, my roommate, dr- was driving me home in an old Pinto, and I was leaning on the door like this. I was so fucked up from getting beat up. I mean, the oars around my face were this big, and I was leaning on the door, and all of a sudden, he went over a railroad [chuckles] track, and I fell out of the car.

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       [laughing]

   17. JMJohn Mellencamp5:42

       Got my hair wrapped around the jigamaflop that hold, holds the car, and the guy that I'm with, drunk, just driving. He didn't even know I fell out of the car, and I'm going, "Stop the car! Stop-" He went, "Oh! [chuckles] Oh." And, uh, so I got up the next morning, and I looked at myself-... and I was unrecognizable. I had road rash on my arms, uh, my knees were all fucked up, my face was beat up from the- And I just said, "You know, this drug and alcohol thing is not working for you." And so I, I went and got all my hair cut off. Not as short as yours, but not much longer. And, uh, that was it.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:31

       Well, you found your rock bottom.

   19. JMJohn Mellencamp6:34

       Yeah. [chuckles]

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       That's what they say. They say you need to find rock bottom.

   21. JMJohn Mellencamp6:37

       Yes-

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:37

       I would've never imagined that you would be the type of guy that would fuck with people at a bar, and spit on somebody, and start a fight. It just-- you just don't seem like that at all.

   23. JMJohn Mellencamp6:47

       Well, I grew up in a small town, and, uh, there was not much to do in a small town. Uh, you know, you would either, uh, find a girl or, or fight. Just-

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:00

       I figured you for the find-the-girl type of guy. [laughing]

   25. JMJohn Mellencamp7:03

       Well, you know, I, I, I was, uh... I did okay with that, but it didn't always work. So, yeah. Yeah, it was like, uh-- Don't forget, Joe, it was like 1967, '66. You weren't, you weren't even born yet.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:21

       I was born in '67.

   27. JMJohn Mellencamp7:22

       Yeah, so this is like 1967.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:24

       Wow!

   29. JMJohn Mellencamp7:25

       So, you know... So from that time on, until I turned 21, I was 21 when I quit using drugs, and quit smoking, quit drinking.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:37

       Wow!
4. 8:00 – 12:28

   Rogan’s nostalgia from ‘Jack & Diane’ and Mellencamp’s philosophy: acceptance, humility, responsibility

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:00

      You were, uh, a big part of my high school experience. It w- it was interesting because you, uh, your songs sort of introduced the idea of nostalgia to me, you know?

   2. JMJohn Mellencamp8:13

      I don't know what that means.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:14

      Well, uh, the- when you were singing songs like Jack and Diane, it's like I, I was kind of realizing as I was a very young guy, listening to those great songs, that there's, there's gonna be a t- like, this is a weird time in life, and there's gonna be a time where you're gonna look back on this, and it's probably one of the best times of your life, but even though it doesn't feel like it. It felt, you know, it felt confusing and weird, and I, I remember thinking at the time like, "My God," like, "is this as good as it gets?" You know, some people look back on this weird, confusing time of adolescence as the happiest moments of their life. I'm like, "I can't wait to get the fuck out of this time of my life." And it's like, you know, you were singing from a position of, like, an everyman position of n- you know, you were, you were singing nostalgia... They were great fucking songs. They had heart, and there was, there was soul to them, but it was like, it was a lot of sadness, you know? A lot of, "Oh yeah, life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone." And I was like, "Oh, Jesus Christ, life's gonna go [laughing] this is it?"

   4. JMJohn Mellencamp9:31

      This is it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:31

      This is it! [laughing]

   6. JMJohn Mellencamp9:32

      This is it. Well, I-- listen, I struggled with that, probably like you did, or he did. Uh, you know, there's a point in a man's life where he feels like, "There's got to be more to life than this." I mean, I had huge hit records and, you know, very, very, very, very, very lucky. Very lucky. You know, everything was j- you know, it was just, I was just lucky. And I would go home, and I would think, "I'm not happy. There's got to be more to life than this." And then guess what happened? I got a little bit older, and I found out there's not.

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:21

      [laughing]

   8. JMJohn Mellencamp10:23

      And I'm good at it. I'm good at it. So, you know, we're only on this earth for a few fucking minutes. Quit feeling sorry for yourself, and quit being confused, and accept your responsibilities, and, and try to, you know, maintain some humility, which was a million miles away from me spitting on people- [chuckles]

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:45

      Right

   10. JMJohn Mellencamp10:45

       ... in a bar. [chuckles]

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:46

       What didn't you enjoy about being this enormous rock star in the early days of MTV? I mean, you were a rock star when it became a totally different thing because it was like this visual thing that was in everyone's household now.

   12. JMJohn Mellencamp11:00

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:00

       It wasn't as simple as, you know, you were on The Tonight Show, and you would sing this musical segment, and people would have to go see you live, to go see you perform.

   14. JMJohn Mellencamp11:08

       Well, and all you got to see of guys in rock bands were their album covers.

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:13

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JMJohn Mellencamp11:14

       You know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan11:14

       Yeah.

   18. JMJohn Mellencamp11:15

       You would, you would go to a record store and, and file through the records, and if you liked the way a band looked, you would buy the record.

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:22

       Yep.

   20. JMJohn Mellencamp11:22

       At least I would.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:23

       I would, too. Yeah.

   22. JMJohn Mellencamp11:23

       And, and so, um... I forgot the question.

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:29

       Well, I was just saying like, w- what was it-- what was not good about that? I mean, what, what was that experience like, being this enormous rock star that left you feeling like you wanted more, that you weren't happy?

   24. JMJohn Mellencamp11:43

       Uh, I think that, uh, for me, I think you, I, I think it- when that, when that happens, it's the age you're at, and I think it's a chemical imbalance in our brain. And as we grow older, it kind of finds its way. And like I said, I just woke up one day and just went, "Hey, this is all there is. Accept it."... and try to show some humility and, and try to be good at it. And it, I never thought about it again.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:17

       That's interesting. Well, you're a, you're a snap-out-of-it type of guy, right? You snapped out of drugs and alcohol. You snapped out of feeling sorry for yourself.

   26. JMJohn Mellencamp12:26

       Yeah, I-

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:26

       That's a good trait to have.

5. 12:28 – 19:31

   Born with spina bifida: experimental surgery, survival, and later panic disorder

   1. JMJohn Mellencamp12:28

      Well, I'm very lucky that, that I'm j- listen, Joe, you're looking at the luckiest fucking guy you, you've ever interviewed. I don't give a shit who you've interviewed. I'm the luckiest guy you know. I was born with spina bifida. Do you know what that is?

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:44

      I don't.

   3. JMJohn Mellencamp12:46

      That's where you have a hole in your spine, and [clears throat] the fluid and all of the, your nerve endings... Like, on me, look at the back of my neck.

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:04

      Oh, wow!

   5. JMJohn Mellencamp13:05

      You see that scar?

   6. JRJoe Rogan13:06

      Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. That scar is huge.

   7. JMJohn Mellencamp13:11

      That's 1951.

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:13

      In 1951, you got that operation?

   9. JMJohn Mellencamp13:16

      I, I was born with it. You're born with spina bifida. And-

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:20

       So what did they do to-- What, what was that operation exactly?

   11. JMJohn Mellencamp13:25

       Well, they had to, uh... Well, here's the story. I was a-- My parents are only 20 years older than me, so I was born deformed, and my parents didn't know what the fuck to do. You know, "What are we gonna do with this kid?" So they just went like that to my grandmother, "Here, you take him." And, uh, so I was in the hospital, and, uh, there were four other kids, and there was a young doctor named Heinberger, who was just a young neurosurgeon. Don't forget, neurosurgery in 1951 was in its... So he just said, "Well, we've gotta try to do something with these kids." And, uh, so he operated on all of us. I was the only one that lived.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:21

       Oh, boy!

   13. JMJohn Mellencamp14:23

       You know, the fact that-- And he charged my parents a dollar for the... You know, 'cause it was an experiment. I was like a guinea pig, and these other poor kids who had the same thing I did, uh, they all died within, you know, six months.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:43

       Oh.

   15. JMJohn Mellencamp14:44

       I remember seeing one girl that made it till she was 14, and she was in a wheelchair. I would see her at basketball games, and my parents would go, "That's the other little girl that had the same operation you did," and then she died. So my whole life has been full of luck. I mean, uh, I'm not supposed to be here.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:09

       What did they do during the operation? What is the procedure?

   17. JMJohn Mellencamp15:13

       Well, they have to cut your head off, [chuckles] for starters. You know, they had, they had to cut my head and lay it open-

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:22

       Oof

   19. JMJohn Mellencamp15:22

       ... to get to my spine, and then they would push each individual nerve ending back down into my spine, dr- drain the fluid off, uh, sew it back up, and make sure that everything was working. And, uh, they told my parents, "You know, look, uh, here he is. He's probably going to die becau- get encephalitis, and his head's gonna fill up with water. We, we don't anticipate him living much more than six or seven months." And I was, fuck, I think I was in fifth grade. I didn't even know I'd had the operation, and some kid in my class said, "Hey, Mellencamp, what's that big scar on the back of your neck?" Don't forget, now we're talking, you know, 1957, '58, '60, maybe. I didn't even know there was a scar back there, you know? [chuckles]

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       Wow!

   21. JMJohn Mellencamp16:25

       Went like I was going, and my parents never told me. So [clears throat] I came home, and I asked my old man, I said, "Dad, what, what's with the scar on the back of my neck?" And he goes, "Oh, don't worry about it. You had an operation when you were born." So I did it. I played football. I ran track. I fought. You know, I did everything that every other kid did without a thought of that. Not until I got older and I ha- started having panic disorder, that I thought, I thought maybe the, the panic disorder was from, uh, from that operation.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:04

       How old were you when you started having panic disorder?

   23. JMJohn Mellencamp17:07

       Uh, I was just out of college. I couldn't leave the house. I became what they call, uh, what's that called? Agoraphobia.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       Yeah.

   25. JMJohn Mellencamp17:15

       Yeah. So I had agoraphobia for about a year and a half, and then I got a record deal, and I had to leave the house. I mean, I was married in high school. I got married in high school, and the girl I was married to was five years older than me, you know.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:31

       How old were you?

   27. JMJohn Mellencamp17:33

       Eighteen.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       Eighteen?

   29. JMJohn Mellencamp17:35

       Yeah. [chuckles]

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:35

       You had a kid, right? You had a kid real young.
6. 19:31 – 22:56

   Panic attacks onstage, a real heart attack at 42, and family time (Fear Factor + 60 Minutes ritual)

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:31

      But it never bothered you again other than the panic? Do-- W- were you performing when you were having the panic stuff?

   2. JMJohn Mellencamp19:38

      Oh, man, I have been on stage in front of, like, 20,000 people and had a panic attack.

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:45

      Oi!

   4. JMJohn Mellencamp19:46

      Yeah, it's like... Have you ever had one?

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:48

      No.

   6. JMJohn Mellencamp19:50

      You're lucky, 'cause you feel like, uh, "I can't breathe."

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:56

      Mm.

   8. JMJohn Mellencamp19:57

      "My chest hurts," and, uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan20:01

      I've seen it. I've seen people have them. It's, it's horrific.

   10. JMJohn Mellencamp20:05

       Yes, it is.

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:05

       You can't do anything for them. You're like, "Are you okay?" You think they're having a heart attack-

   12. JMJohn Mellencamp20:08

       Yeah

   13. JRJoe Rogan20:08

       ... you think they're dying.

   14. JMJohn Mellencamp20:09

       Yeah. Well, I've been on stage, and I remember having to plant my feet and just power through, you know, in front of 20,000 people, and it was just, it was awful.

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:21

       Did it pass while you were on stage?

   16. JMJohn Mellencamp20:23

       Yeah. Uh, I don't know if it did. I just remember it happening numerous times. And then guess what happened? I had a fucking real heart attack on stage at Jones Beach [chuckles] like 30 years later.

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:35

       Oh, Jesus.

   18. JMJohn Mellencamp20:36

       I know. So... But you know what that heart attack led to? I was m- I just married Elaine, uh, Irwin, and we had two little boys, and I got to stay home. 'Cause I said, "Fuck that, I'm gonna die." I didn't know about heart disease. "I'm gonna die, so I wanna spend the last couple years of my life with my boys," who were little, teeny guys, which I wanna tell you a story about them and you. Uh, and, uh, uh, so I got to actually kinda not be in the music business, which pleased me. Uh-

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:19

       How old were you when you had your heart attack?

   20. JMJohn Mellencamp21:20

       42.

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:21

       Oh, geez.

   22. JMJohn Mellencamp21:23

       And, uh, [clears throat] so I got to stay home. I stayed home for three and a half years. Elaine didn't model, and we just... You know, we had TV shows we watched, which is unheard of in my life. You know, like, "Hey, it's Thursday night. [chuckles] Let's watch, let's watch this!" You know? Which is where you come in. So the boys were little, and they loved your show. They loved your fucking show. And I was kinda like, "I don't know if the kids should be watching this," you know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:56

       You talking about Fear Factor?

   24. JMJohn Mellencamp21:57

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:57

       Yeah.

   26. JMJohn Mellencamp21:58

       Yeah. "I don't know if the kids should be watching..." So I made a deal with them. "All right, you guys, you can watch this show, but you have to watch 60 Minutes, too." [laughing]

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:09

       [laughing]

   28. JMJohn Mellencamp22:10

       "So if you're gonna watch this, then you gotta watch 60 Minutes." And they obliged, which surprised the hell out of me. But it was like, "Dad, 60 Minutes is on. Dad, Fear Factor's on!" "I know." So we would watch it together. I mean, how lucky is that?

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:26

       That-- Well, it sounds like it was a blessing in disguise.

   30. JMJohn Mellencamp22:30

       Yeah. Well, that's-
7. 22:56 – 29:51

   Cholesterol, statins, metformin, and America’s processed-food crisis (plus nattokinase)

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:56

      What caused your heart attack at such a young age?

   2. JMJohn Mellencamp22:59

      [chuckles] Me being stupid. Uh, I would go in and to, uh, get a physical, and, uh, they'd go, "John, your cholesterol is off the charts. It's, it's at 400." And, and I would go, "Am I all right now?" And they'd go, "Well, yeah, you're all right now." "Good!" 'Cause I didn't want to get on medicine.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:20

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JMJohn Mellencamp23:21

      You know, and statin drugs had just become... You know, just were invented, uh, you know, at that time. People started using the statins, and I didn't want to take them. I didn't know what they were. But I know all about heart disease now, 'cause you-

   5. JRJoe Rogan23:37

      Did you have plaque? Did you have arterial plaque?

   6. JMJohn Mellencamp23:40

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:40

      Yeah.

   8. JMJohn Mellencamp23:41

      Yeah. And, uh, uh, it runs in my family. I have a sister that has-- or she used to, I don't think she does anymore, but she-- her cholesterol was a 500. Imagine? That's like-... It's crazy.

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:57

      Cholesterol is a very controversial subject now, 'cause people are starting to try to sort out what is the actual cause of heart disease, and there's a lot of people that don't believe it is cholesterol. They think it's arterial plaque. And what is that stuff called? Nattokinase? I, I don't know how to pronounce it, but there's a, a supplement, like an over-the-counter supplement, that's supposed to be able to eliminate arterial plaque in a very profound way that they're just starting to realize.

   10. JMJohn Mellencamp24:29

       I don't know, but what-

   11. JRJoe Rogan24:30

       It's clogging of it.

   12. JMJohn Mellencamp24:32

       Listen, what-- I, I was in New York once with a girl, and I went to the doctor with her. She was an actress, and she was getting a physical, and she wanted me to go, so I went with her. And, uh, she went to the best doctor in New York City, [sniffs] and I found myself alone with that doctor. And I said, "So, uh, [sniffs] the doctor in Bloomington just put me on metformin. What's the side effects for metformin?" And this guy, Joe, is the guy, he went longevity, and he said, "If it was up to me, I'd put the entire United States on metformin and a statin, because the fucking food we eat is terrible."

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:25

       Yeah.

   14. JMJohn Mellencamp25:25

       "It's processed, it's this-

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:27

       Mm-hmm

   16. JMJohn Mellencamp25:27

       ... and that," you know, and he just said, "You know, the, the human body was not meant to eat this crap."

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:34

       That's a fact.

   18. JMJohn Mellencamp25:35

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:35

       Yeah. I think the solution is probably eating food that you're meant to eat, but metformin is, uh, one of those drugs that longevity doctors recommend. I've never been on it, but, uh, I know s- quite a few people that have. I, I think, uh, isn't it a diabetes drug initially?

   20. JMJohn Mellencamp25:50

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan25:51

       Yeah.

   22. JMJohn Mellencamp25:51

       And I, uh, my mom died of diabetes-

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:55

       Mm

   24. JMJohn Mellencamp25:55

       ... so, uh, I was always borderline, and I'm still borderline, and this was-

   25. JRJoe Rogan26:00

       She get Type 1 or Type 2?

   26. JMJohn Mellencamp26:02

       Well, she started out with two, and then she paid no attention to it, wouldn't take her medicine. We'd drive by Krispy Kreme, and she'd go- [laughing] "Just don't tell your dad! Okay."

   27. JRJoe Rogan26:14

       Uh-

   28. JMJohn Mellencamp26:14

       And she'd get a half a dozen, you know, Krispy Kremes and eat them, and it's just like-

   29. JRJoe Rogan26:18

       Yeah

   30. JMJohn Mellencamp26:18

       ... hmm.
8. 29:51 – 35:15

   Distrust in politics, JFK-era skepticism, and polarization then vs. now

   1. JMJohn Mellencamp29:51

      Yeah, our, our f- our food source... And, and I, I don't know about RFK Jr. I, you know, I don't follow what he says or listen to-- I try not to listen to much politics.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:01

      Good for you.

   3. JMJohn Mellencamp30:02

      You know why?

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      That's another good way to not have a heart attack. [chuckles]

   5. JMJohn Mellencamp30:05

      ... Well, you know why? 'Cause it, it's all, you know, I was a hippie.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JMJohn Mellencamp30:09

      And I grew up thinking, [clears throat] you know, that anybody over 30 was the enemy.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:15

      Right.

   9. JMJohn Mellencamp30:16

      And, you know, it's kinda like, [chuckles] my- I remember when Kennedy was shot, I asked my dad, I go, "Do you..." And I was like a kid. I go, "Do you really think o- one guy did it?" And he just looked at me and went, "What do you think?" And that was the whole, his whole answer.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       Wow. Well, he knew it back then. That's interesting, 'cause it took a long- it took until, uh, Dick, Dick Gregory brought the Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera show, which was, I think it was 12 years after Kennedy's assassination, that people realized that he probably had gotten shot from the front.

   11. JMJohn Mellencamp30:56

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:56

       'Cause his head went back and to the left.

   13. JMJohn Mellencamp30:59

       Yeah, and, a- a- and I've seen that, and, uh, I remem- my dad was a Young Democrat, you know, and, and, uh, so he, he was involved a, a lot with the Democratic Party back then. And, uh, uh, I'd ask him questions, and he never would really give me answers. He would just give me looks. [laughing]

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:27

       Oh. [laughing]

   15. JMJohn Mellencamp31:29

       It was kinda like... And he knew the look! It was just like, "Uh, what do you think, John? You really think somebody did that? You, you know, figure it out for yourself."

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       Yeah, not much has changed.

   17. JMJohn Mellencamp31:47

       A- and that's why I don't watch... I don't, you know, I used to be very politically minded and, and cared about what politicians said. I don't give a fuck what they say. I don't trust any of 'em. I don't like any of 'em. Not that I don't like 'em-

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:05

       Right.

   19. JMJohn Mellencamp32:06

       It's just that I don't, I, I... You know, it's just hard to believe anything that anybody says because everybody's spinning everything in such a way that it's just, like, for their purposes, you know, so, you know.

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:21

       And unfortunately, we're more aware of it now than ever before. There's less trust in politics now than there's ever been, and then there's more people talking about politics than there's ever been. There's more polarization. I mean, I don't know what it was like when, uh, you were a kid, but wh- when I was a kid, there, there wasn't this polarization between people that were conservative and people that were liberal. Like, you could hang out and talk to each other. You didn't-- they didn't hate each other. They just thought the other person was a fool for having a different opinion than them, but there wasn't hate like there is today.

   21. JMJohn Mellencamp32:54

       Well, here's the way you gotta look at it, [chuckles] this is that when you used to vote, you would go inside a place, and they would shut the curtains-

   22. JRJoe Rogan33:05

       Mm-hmm

   23. JMJohn Mellencamp33:06

       ... and you would vote, and that was your fucking business.

   24. JRJoe Rogan33:08

       Yep.

   25. JMJohn Mellencamp33:09

       It's nobody else's business. [cup clanks] So, like, you know, it's like, uh, you know, uh, I'm for anybody that's doing good. If you're doing good and you're not hurting somebody, go, man. But, uh, you know, I, I'm not for cheating, and, you know, how about a little morality and-

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:33

       Yeah

   27. JMJohn Mellencamp33:33

       ... integrity in what you're saying and doing? It's-

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:37

       That would be nice. It would be nice.

   29. JMJohn Mellencamp33:39

       Well, it's, it's never been that way.

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:41

       No, never.
9. 35:15 – 40:05

   History and media memory: Civil War arguments, Lincoln dispute, and how ‘recent’ history really is

   1. JMJohn Mellencamp35:15

      Well, back up, Joe. What do you think the Civil War was fought about?

   2. JRJoe Rogan35:20

      The Civil War?

   3. JMJohn Mellencamp35:21

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan35:22

      Well, slavery was a big one.

   5. JMJohn Mellencamp35:24

      No, no.

   6. JRJoe Rogan35:26

      No?

   7. JMJohn Mellencamp35:26

      Ports.

   8. JRJoe Rogan35:27

      Ports.

   9. JMJohn Mellencamp35:28

      They fought-- it was fought over ports. The port in Savannah, Georgia, was the biggest port in America, and the ports in Boston, New York, were struggling. And the North said, "Hey, why don't you guys send some of that our way? You guys got more than you can handle." And they said, "Fuck you, no. No, we're, we're not, we're not sending you any of our stuff." And they just kinda went, "Well, then fuck you, we're gonna come down and take it. But how are we gonna get the f- American people to get behind that? Slaves. We'll say it's to free the slaves."

   10. JRJoe Rogan36:10

       Really?

   11. JMJohn Mellencamp36:11

       ... Yeah, I li- I, I have a house in the South, and, and, [chuckles] uh, that's what it was about. It was about the ports. Slavery was just an excuse, 'cause nobody cared about Black people-

   12. JRJoe Rogan36:26

       So you-

   13. JMJohn Mellencamp36:26

       ... North or South.

   14. JRJoe Rogan36:27

       Wow! So you think that if they had just spread the wealth a little bit, that that would not have happened, and slavery would have still continued? Don't you think that... I mean, there was already a distaste of slavery because it wasn't, it wasn't ubiquitous in the North, but in the South-

   15. JMJohn Mellencamp36:43

       But it, but it was.

   16. JRJoe Rogan36:44

       In the North, it was?

   17. JMJohn Mellencamp36:45

       Yeah. I, I mean, Lincoln had slaves.

   18. JRJoe Rogan36:48

       Right, back then, but not in, uh, not in the 1860s when they were fighting the Civil War.

   19. JMJohn Mellencamp36:56

       He was president.

   20. JRJoe Rogan36:58

       Really? He had slaves when he was fighting in the war?

   21. JMJohn Mellencamp37:02

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan37:03

       I wasn't aware of that.

   23. JMJohn Mellencamp37:04

       Yeah, a lot of people in the North so- you know, they weren't at- they, they hadn't spun it to be so cruel as the South was, apparently.

   24. JRJoe Rogan37:15

       Well, there was more in the South, right? Because of plantations, and-

   25. JMJohn Mellencamp37:20

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan37:20

       So here it is: Abraham Lincoln never personally owned slaves. This is according to Perplexity, which is our, uh, AI sponsor, which is always very accurate. Either before or during his presidency, according to mainstream historical scholarship, claims that he had slaves through inheritance or marriage come from fringe or highly disputed sources and are not accepted by most professional historians.

   27. JMJohn Mellencamp37:44

       That's me. [laughing]

   28. JRJoe Rogan37:46

       [laughing]

   29. JMJohn Mellencamp37:47

       I'm fringe.

   30. JRJoe Rogan37:47

       Lincoln was born in Kentucky, raised in Indiana and Illinois, all as a non-slave owner, working as a laborer, a lawyer, and a politician. He was a really good wrestler, too. Um, being related to slaveholders did not legally make those enslaved people his property, and the best documented homes Lincoln himself maintained in Illinois and Washington employed free servants, not slaves. Hmm, okay, where'd the idea come from?
10. 40:05 – 44:02

    Growing up pre-internet: TV sign-offs, cable/HBO shock, and ‘go outside’ childhood freedom

    1. JMJohn Mellencamp40:05

       Yeah, I, uh, I, uh, I re- [chuckles] I remember being at home once, and I told my dad, I said, "Hey, Dad, the people down the street have got, like, a changer, and it's got a cord on it." And he goes, "I got a changer, too. Change it to channel four." [laughing]

    2. JRJoe Rogan40:23

       [laughing]

    3. JMJohn Mellencamp40:23

       I was the changer. [laughing]

    4. JRJoe Rogan40:26

       Yeah, I remember we used to have a pliers because the thing got stripped.

    5. JMJohn Mellencamp40:31

       Broke off, yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan40:31

       So you had to change the channel with the plier. You didn't know what channel it was until, like, "Oh, it's CBS. All right, so we're on five. Go like this, then you're on ABC. Go like that, you're on NBC."

    7. JMJohn Mellencamp40:41

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan40:41

       Yeah. I remember the day cable came out. I was like, "This is fucking bananas."

    9. JMJohn Mellencamp40:47

       Yes.

    10. JRJoe Rogan40:47

        "Look at all these channels."

    11. JMJohn Mellencamp40:49

        Well, I, I, I remember seeing, uh, a home box office-

    12. JRJoe Rogan40:53

        Oh, yeah

    13. JMJohn Mellencamp40:53

        ... for the first time. It was like, "What on earth?" I even remember what movie it was. It was some, The Miracle Man or something, and I thought, "What is thi- this-- it's past 11 o'clock, and this movie's just starting!"

    14. JRJoe Rogan41:07

        [laughing] Yeah.

    15. JMJohn Mellencamp41:09

        Are you kidding me? You kidding me?

    16. JRJoe Rogan41:09

        Do you remember in the old days when the TV would sign off, and the American flag would f- wave, and it would just play music, and then it would just go... ) , tshhh?

    17. JMJohn Mellencamp41:19

        And then, well, the Indian would always show up.

    18. JRJoe Rogan41:21

        Yeah.

    19. JMJohn Mellencamp41:21

        The American Indian would always show up, and it had, like, this ooo, oo.

    20. JRJoe Rogan41:27

        Yep.

    21. JMJohn Mellencamp41:27

        Go.

    22. JRJoe Rogan41:28

        And then it would go to nothing.

    23. JMJohn Mellencamp41:29

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan41:29

        They would stop broadcasting at night.

    25. JMJohn Mellencamp41:31

        Yeah, 11.

    26. JRJoe Rogan41:32

        Yeah.

    27. JMJohn Mellencamp41:32

        11.

    28. JRJoe Rogan41:33

        Those were wild times. Cable changed everything. Home box office changed everything because when HBO came around, all of a sudden, you got to see stand-up comedy uncensored. I remember the first time I watched Sam Kinison on HBO, I was like: This is fucking crazy.

    29. JMJohn Mellencamp41:51

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan41:51

        Like, I'd never seen anything like that before. Like, wild, raw comedy on TV.
11. 44:02 – 51:47

    Early musicianship: bar gigs at 14, boxing/fighting, and the Mason Brothers riverboat fiasco

    1. JRJoe Rogan44:02

       What was it like when MTV rolled around?

    2. JMJohn Mellencamp44:06

       Uh, [clears throat] I didn't... I mean, I liked it, and, uh, John-

    3. JRJoe Rogan44:10

       How long had you been performing by then?

    4. JMJohn Mellencamp44:13

       Oh, uh, I was in my first band when I was 11.

    5. JRJoe Rogan44:17

       Wow!

    6. JMJohn Mellencamp44:18

       Uh, you know, a little garage band with a bunch of kids, playing along with records. And then I was in a band called The Crepe Soul. I-- think about this, Joe: I was 14 years old, playing in bars.

    7. JRJoe Rogan44:35

       Wow!

    8. JMJohn Mellencamp44:36

       And my parents were cool with it. [laughing]

    9. JRJoe Rogan44:40

       [laughing]

    10. JMJohn Mellencamp44:40

        It was like, "Where's John?" "He's playing tonight." "Playing what?" "He's, he's in The Crepe Soul." "Oh." And it was me and this Black kid named Fred Booker, and we shared the vocals, and we would do, you know, we would do songs like, uh, "Pull strings and I'll kiss your lips. I'm your puppet. I'm your puppet." And we had, you know, Nehru jackets on, and I was cute back then. And, and so, you know, it was great for me. I would've done it for free because I was 14 years old, making out with 18 and 19-year-old girls.

    11. JRJoe Rogan45:21

        Wow.

    12. JMJohn Mellencamp45:22

        I know, it was great. Are you kidding me? And then, uh, we played at every fraternity, every sorority, and I came home with maybe, you know, over the weekend, I might make 60 bucks. I was the best-dressed kid in school.

    13. JRJoe Rogan45:40

        Wow.

    14. JMJohn Mellencamp45:40

        "That Mellencamp kid is just a dressed-up hood. That's all he is." [laughing]

    15. JRJoe Rogan45:46

        So did you know back then that you were gonna be a professional musician, or were you doing it for fun? Did you think it was gonna be a career?

    16. JMJohn Mellencamp45:53

        I thought-- here's what I thought: I'm either gonna be a professional football player, a professional boxer, or a singer. That was my choices.

    17. JRJoe Rogan46:03

        You boxed?

    18. JMJohn Mellencamp46:04

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:05

        Yeah?

    20. JMJohn Mellencamp46:06

        I'll whip your ass right now. [laughing]

    21. JRJoe Rogan46:10

        [laughing]

    22. JMJohn Mellencamp46:11

        At 74!

    23. JRJoe Rogan46:13

        Is that why you were getting in so many fights, 'cause-

    24. JMJohn Mellencamp46:15

        Yeah, I liked it.

    25. JRJoe Rogan46:16

        Wow.

    26. JMJohn Mellencamp46:17

        I liked it. I, I liked the contact. Didn't like getting whipped every goddamn night, but, [chuckles] you know, it happens.

    27. JRJoe Rogan46:24

        Did you have any, any professional boxing matches?

    28. JMJohn Mellencamp46:28

        No, but my son, I'm gonna brag on my son, uh, was National Golden Gloves champ twice.

    29. JRJoe Rogan46:34

        Wow!

    30. JMJohn Mellencamp46:35

        And, uh, then he played football for Duke, and, uh, he was... You don't wanna mess with Hud. Don't wanna mess with Hud.
12. 51:47 – 1:04:50

    Breaking into the business: New York fear, early deals, England during punk, and Australia success

    1. JMJohn Mellencamp51:47

       and I'd been to Chicago once. I'd never been on an airplane. And so I flew to New York, 'cause I came into some money. That's another funny story. I came into some money, and I went there, and I was afraid to come out of my hotel room for the first two days, 'cause New York in the early '70s was broke, and there were prostitutes, and pimps, and everything everywhere, you know, and h- homeless people. Which reminds me, you guys got a lot of homeless guys here.

    2. JRJoe Rogan52:24

       There's a few. It's not as bad as LA.

    3. JMJohn Mellencamp52:27

       Well, that isn't-- [chuckles] you can say that about anything, Joe.

    4. JRJoe Rogan52:30

       That's true.

    5. JMJohn Mellencamp52:31

       [laughing]

    6. JRJoe Rogan52:31

       Yeah. Um, it's a lot better than it was during the pandemic. During the pandemic, they allowed them to do the camping on the street thing. So you'd go down, like, Cesar Chavez, and you'd see, like, 15, 20 tents where people were just hanging out, and people were trying to jog and ride their bikes past them. It was, it was pretty bad, but, uh, the former, former mayor, uh, cleaned it up, and they've pretty good programs here to get people into housing.

    7. JMJohn Mellencamp52:58

       Well, everybody here, everybody here must love, uh... And I'm not putting Austin down, I'm just-- I had-- you know, I was-- I played here about three years ago. Uh, but everybody must love graffiti here. [laughing] And that's the thing about graffiti, I, I don't mind if you want to destroy somebody else's property, but at least do something original-

    8. JRJoe Rogan53:26

       Right

    9. JMJohn Mellencamp53:26

       ... 'cause it all looks the same. You know, it's big letters and outlined in-- it's done in black and outlined in yellow, and it's, it's the same fucking shit you see in New York or Los Angeles. It's the same!

    10. JRJoe Rogan53:38

        Right.

    11. JMJohn Mellencamp53:38

        If you're gonna, if you're gonna be a, an artist, be an artist.

    12. JRJoe Rogan53:43

        Well, a lot of these guys are just tagging. They're just, like, it's just their gang affiliation or whatever it is, I guess.

    13. JMJohn Mellencamp53:51

        I don't know.

    14. JRJoe Rogan53:52

        Yeah.

    15. JMJohn Mellencamp53:52

        But it wasn't that way the first time I came to Austin.

    16. JRJoe Rogan53:55

        No, it's-- Well, I think all cities have deteriorated, but I think Austin's deteriorated quite a bit less. We found out recently that Skid Row in LA is 50 blocks, five-zero.

    17. JMJohn Mellencamp54:08

        Right now?

    18. JRJoe Rogan54:08

        Right now.

    19. JMJohn Mellencamp54:09

        Wow.

    20. JRJoe Rogan54:09

        Fifty blocks-

    21. JMJohn Mellencamp54:11

        Wow

    22. JRJoe Rogan54:11

        ... of homeless people just living on the streets, and, like, almost impassable. Like, if you've e- ever been down Skid Row, it's fucking-- I went there once accidentally, and this was in the 2000s. We were filming Fear Factor downtown in LA, and I took a wrong turn and wound up in Skid Row, and I was like-- I couldn't believe it was real. I, I, uh-- it was like a zombie movie, and that's-

    23. JMJohn Mellencamp54:35

        ... so, so you decide, so you decide to get on Fear Factor, you go stay in there for three days, [laughing] and you win!

    24. JRJoe Rogan54:43

        [laughing] Three days and do no coke.

    25. JMJohn Mellencamp54:45

        [laughing]

    26. JRJoe Rogan54:45

        Yeah, you could do three days with no meth, and you win.

    27. JMJohn Mellencamp54:48

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan54:48

        Yeah. It was, uh, it was sobering. And then, and then we looked up the history of, uh, Skid Row, and the reason why it's like that is they would take people out of Hollywood and Beverly Hills, and homeless people then, and they would put them in Skid Row and force them to stay there. And they, they sort of built it as a place where they could deposit vagrants and homeless people.

    29. JMJohn Mellencamp55:13

        Well, there is a law in this country called vagrancy.

    30. JRJoe Rogan55:17

        Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not very enforced.
13. 1:04:50 – 1:18:33

    Industry mechanics and identity: ‘Johnny Cougar,’ publishing losses, critics, SoundScan, and rock’s decline

    1. JMJohn Mellencamp1:04:50

       you know, and then it just kinda built. But see, what happened, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I didn't give a fuck. I, I got to the point where it was like, "I don't give a fuck," you know? "Do what the fuck you want." 'Cause I, I didn't want to be Johnny Cougar, which is how they made me start.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:16

       And whose idea was that, to turn you into John Cougar?

    3. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:19

       It was Johnny to start off with.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:05:21

       Johnny Cougar.

    5. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:21

       Tony, Tony DeFries managed me, David Bowie, Lou Reed, uh, Mott the Hoople. You remember all these bands?

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:05:30

       Oh, Lou Reed, for sure, yeah.

    7. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:31

       Yeah. Anyway-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:32

       David Bowie, obviously.

    9. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:33

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:05:34

        Rod Stewart, obviously.

    11. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:35

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:05:35

        Same guy, managed them all.

    13. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:36

        Well, Rod Stewart was different.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:05:38

        Different manager.

    15. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:39

        Different man, but he was English, too. So, uh-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:05:44

        It's hard to argue with someone that's got that kind of talent, right?

    17. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:47

        Well, it's hard to argue, uh, when you're 22 years old with a 45-year-old man who has had success.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:05:55

        Right.

    19. JMJohn Mellencamp1:05:56

        Yeah, like I signed away my publishing and stuff. This is an old story, but I mean, an old story from everybody, from the Rolling Stones-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:06:06

        Mm-hmm

    21. JMJohn Mellencamp1:06:06

        ... to, you know, you name it.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:06:07

        Prince.

    23. JMJohn Mellencamp1:06:09

        I- if you were Black, i- you know, it was like, "Here's a new car, and a, and a shiny ring, and some money."

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:06:16

        Yeah.

    25. JMJohn Mellencamp1:06:17

        And, uh, so I remember the... I was in, getting ready, getting ready to leave England, and I heard, heard that Gaff had, uh, had good news for me in America, so that's the reason I went home. And the good news was, is that he just got a deal for me for on Mercury Records-... and then, uh, so I ca- I went back to the United States, and, uh, we started, m- you know, started making records and just kept plowing away. And the critics hated me. You know, they fucking hated me because of Johnny Cougar. And MainMan came up with that name, Johnny Cougar, and he, his excuse was, uh, "His name was David Jones, and I called him David Bowie, and look how well that worked out." [chuckles] And that was-- and I'm 22, and I'm going: "But I don't like this name." And he'd go, "Well, you don't have to, you don't have to, uh, participate. You can go back to Indiana if you want." It was like: "Well, fuck you, then I will." And then I walked outside and thought for a minute and thought, "Hmm, I guess I'm Johnny Cougar." [chuckles]

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:07:38

        Wow!

    27. JMJohn Mellencamp1:07:40

        I hated it. And, and they compared me to James Dean and Bruce, and, you know, so the critics just hated that. It was like, you know, "He's so American. He's so American." You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I was a fucking hillbilly. [laughing]

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:07:56

        Fucking critics.

    29. JMJohn Mellencamp1:07:57

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:07:58

        They're always gonna be a problem.
14. 1:18:33 – 1:48:55

    MTV explosion and the making of ‘American Fool’: drum-machine novelty, label resistance, and undeniable hits

    1. JMJohn Mellencamp1:18:33

       Well, do you know John Sykes?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:18:34

       No.

    3. JMJohn Mellencamp1:18:36

       He was one of the guys who started MTV.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:18:38

       Okay.

    5. JMJohn Mellencamp1:18:41

       And, uh, I remember calling him up, and I didn't know him. This was like 1981, '82.... and like I said, you know, it was, it was like, uh, all you really saw of guys in rock bands were the album covers-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:19:02

       Mm-hmm

    7. JMJohn Mellencamp1:19:03

       ... and, you know, maybe on Midnight Special or something like that.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:19:07

       Yep.

    9. JMJohn Mellencamp1:19:07

       Or Don Kirshner's Rock Concert or something like that. But then with MTV going all the time, and not very many people made videos, but see, I was making videos because I had a hit in Australia, and like I said, Australia was way ahead of us. So it was the video that I just made in a club in London that was shown, that made that record number one-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:19:32

        Wow

    11. JMJohn Mellencamp1:19:32

        ... in Australia. And, uh, so when MTV started, there weren't that many people making videos, but I was. So [chuckles] they didn't have any content!

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:19:50

        Ah.

    13. JMJohn Mellencamp1:19:51

        So they played me all the fucking time, just because nobody else had videos yet.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:19:57

        Right, people hadn't caught up yet.

    15. JMJohn Mellencamp1:19:58

        Right. And, uh, I remember sitting with-- I can't remember the guy, some English guy, and I said, "Do you-- what is this MTV thing?" He goes, "I don't know. The record company told me..." I can't remember the guy's name. He was really a good songwriter, but you don't hear of him much anymore. Uh, anyway, I had a conversa- I mean, neither, neither one of us knew what was going on. And then I met John, and, uh, I was, [chuckles] I was the first-- And John and I got along great. I was the first promotion that MTV did, and we gave away a pink house.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:20:41

        Oh, wow!

    17. JMJohn Mellencamp1:20:42

        You know, uh, and y- you had to register and do all this stuff, and, and there's a funny story that goes with that. So Sykes and somebody else came to Indiana to find a house in, in Bloomington that they were gonna buy, and then they were gonna do a show. And I did an ad where I went, "And you can win a house, and we're gonna paint the mother pink," you know? And that's what they did, except the house they bought, Joe, was on a chemical dump. [laughing]

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:21:19

        Oh, no!

    19. JMJohn Mellencamp1:21:21

        But I didn't know it, and they didn't know 'cause they were from New York. And so when I found out, I, I called them up, I said, "Guys, we can't give away this house. It's on a fucking chemical dump." Because RCA was dumping chemicals out in this field that was right next to the house-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:21:43

        Oh, geez

    21. JMJohn Mellencamp1:21:43

        ... that, that we bought, you know. And back then, in the, in the early '80s, there wasn't much legislation about where you could dump that kind of stuff.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:21:52

        Right.

    23. JMJohn Mellencamp1:21:54

        So they had to buy another house, which they weren't happy about. [chuckles] So they had to buy two houses, couldn't sell the other one, gave it away. And Sykes, to this day, I'll tease him about it, and he'll go, "Oh, we took that off the books years ago." [laughing]

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:22:09

        Geez.

    25. JMJohn Mellencamp1:22:10

        But it, uh, it, it, it, it went from walking down the street to nobody know who the fuck you are, to walking down the street and everybody knew who you were. Everybody. I mean, it got to, uh, it-- at the height of MTV, you couldn't go any- I couldn't go anyplace.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:22:35

        Did you, uh, get the agoraphobia before that?

    27. JMJohn Mellencamp1:22:38

        Oh, yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:22:38

        Oh, boy. So that probably just made it way worse, right?

    29. JMJohn Mellencamp1:22:42

        No, actually-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:22:43

        No?
15. 1:48:55 – 2:21:58

    Aging, legacy, and what matters: gratitude, family, mortality, smoking, and old friends

    1. JMJohn Mellencamp1:48:55

       A- and what I find amazing, and I don't know why I find it amazing, but I find it amazing that people relate to music in that fashion, 'cause I didn't know that as a kid.... I just thought, you know, I thought I'd make two records, and that'd be done. That's why I stayed in Bloomington. I had a little bit of money. I didn't know how much more I'd have, s- you know, how much longer I was gonna last, so let's try to, like, buy a little house. And [exhales] I talked to, uh-- I'm good friends with Bruce, and him and I both just kind of just look at each other and go, "Can you fucking believe it?" 'Cause he's from a real little shitty town in New Jersey, and we both just look at each other and go, "Fuck, can you believe it?" [laughing] It's unbelievable.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:49:50

       Well, gratitude's an important thing. It's kind of co-opted today with a lot of, like, this-

    3. JMJohn Mellencamp1:49:55

       [clears throat]

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:49:55

       ... spiritual movement. You know, people say it, and it kind of sounds hollow and fake, but real gratitude and real thankfulness for a life that you've been so lucky to have, and I've been so lucky to have, it's, it's, it's very important. It's an amazing thing. I mean, how could you not look back at your life and not think, "Can you fucking believe it?"

    5. JMJohn Mellencamp1:50:13

       Yeah, and, and you know, the thing of it is, is that I sometimes ask my audience, I go: Where are you right now? And most of you probably say, "I am at a John Mellencamp concert in Austin, Texas." And my answer is, yes, but also, where you really are, you're on a fucking rock that's going around the fucking sun, that has been here for millions of fucking years, and so we are only here for a blink of an eye. So stop worrying about everything so fucking much. It doesn't fucking matter. Don't beep your horn because the fucking guy in front of you didn't take off right when the light turned red. It's not that important. Don't take yourself so fucking seriously, and try to, try to have some humility. You know, that's what I hate about politics today. There's no fucking humility!

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:51:21

       Right.

    7. JMJohn Mellencamp1:51:21

       How about some humility? I don't care what party you're with, I don't give a fuck. But show some humility and some, you know, respect for each other, which they just don't.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:51:31

       Right. No.

    9. JMJohn Mellencamp1:51:32

       They just don't. It's terrible.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:51:34

        Yeah, there's a lot of that. If we could get more people to recognize how brief and fleeting this moment al- alive is...

    11. JMJohn Mellencamp1:51:43

        It's, it's, it's so-- Well, I got it tattooed right here on my arm, and my grandmother told me this when she... She lived to be 100, and I would go over and I'd lay in bed with her when she was, like, 99, 98. And one day she said to me, she goes, "You know, John, if you don't stop this cussing and wild living, you're not gonna get into heaven." And I went, "Ah, Grandma." She goes, she goes, "Yes, you, you know, you, you, you need to change your ways a little bit." And I said, "Yeah, well, you'll get me into heaven. Don't worry about it." And she said, "No." She said, "You're gonna find out real soon. Now, listen, life is short, even in its longest days."

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:52:43

        It certain feels short when you look back, right?

    13. JMJohn Mellencamp1:52:45

        Oh, yeah. But just think, just think about those words-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:52:48

        Mm-hmm

    15. JMJohn Mellencamp1:52:49

        ... coming from a hundred-year-old woman.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:52:51

        Yeah.

    17. JMJohn Mellencamp1:52:52

        You know, life is short, even in its longest days. Really, the opposite end of the spectrum: "Oh, yeah, life goes on!" [laughing]

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:53:01

        Right, right, right. Right.

    19. JMJohn Mellencamp1:53:03

        So I wrote a song called Life is Short, and, and, uh, and I love playing it. I love playing it, uh, because it, it really hits the nail on the head of, of, you know, getting-- But how old did you say you were?

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:53:17

        58.

    21. JMJohn Mellencamp1:53:18

        58 years old. You're still a kid.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:53:21

        [laughing]

    23. JMJohn Mellencamp1:53:22

        You're still a kid.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:53:24

        How old are you now?

    25. JMJohn Mellencamp1:53:25

        74.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:53:26

        Wow. Well, you look great.

    27. JMJohn Mellencamp1:53:27

        Thanks. Maybe we can go on a date tomorrow. What do you think? [laughing]

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:53:32

        [laughing] Does-- Is singing and performing, is it different now? Do, do you, do you appreciate it more now than when you were younger?

    29. JMJohn Mellencamp1:53:43

        Uh...

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:53:45

        Is it a different feeling because, like, you've done so much, and it's-

Episode duration: 2:21:58