Joe Rogan Experience #2440 - Matt Damon & Ben Affleck

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 2:03

   Matt Damon’s Hunter S. Thompson dentist story (moonshine at 10am)

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

   2. SPSpeaker0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music]

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      That's wild.

   5. MDMatt Damon0:13

      And I went in 'cause I came in from Miami, I think I was living at the time. And I went in, and, uh... And, uh, I'm sitting in the waiting room, and it was, like, on a Sunday because it was... I was like: "I'm only in town for a..." And, and Stan was like: "I'll come into the office." I'm like, "Thank you so much." I had to have some, a filling or something, whatever I needed.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      [chuckles]

   7. MDMatt Damon0:29

      It's kind of an emergency. So I'm sitting in the thing, and, uh, [click] and I'm not getting called in, but the, the, the lady's just... Uh, no, no, there's not even a receptionist. And Stan comes out with his mask on. No, the first thing I hear is, "Pig fucker! Fucking piece of cocksucker," [laughing] "fucking pig fucker."

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:46

      [laughing]

   9. MDMatt Damon0:46

      And I'm like, "What is happening in there?" It's in the other room. And Stan comes in with his mask on. He goes, "Sorry." He goes: "I'll be with you soon." He goes, "I got Hunter in the chair." [laughing]

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       [laughing]

   11. MDMatt Damon0:54

       And he goes back, [whooshes] and I hear... Listen to, to Hunter Thompson swear for, like, 15 minutes. I'm like, "This is amazing." And then Stan goes, "Okay, come on back." And Hunter's kind of getting out, and he goes, "Oh, you're sitting down with this guy? He's a fucking assassin." [laughing]

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       [laughing]

   13. MDMatt Damon1:09

       So I... And then he goes, and he's got this jug of clear, uh, of clear fluid, and he's like: "You're gonna need a sip of this." And I'm like, "Oh, my God, this is fucking Hunter S. Thompson's moonshine." [laughing] I'm like, "This is-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       [laughing] Fucking ethyl alcohol, like-

   15. MDMatt Damon1:23

       ... I'm like, "This is fucking amazing!"

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       2,000 proof.

   17. MDMatt Damon1:25

       I'm like, I'm, I'm talking to this dude for 30 seconds, and I'm getting a sip.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       [laughing]

   19. MDMatt Damon1:28

       And, like, and it was, like, 10 in the morning on a Sunday.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       Was it?

   21. MDMatt Damon1:31

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       Oh, it's-

   23. MDMatt Damon1:32

       He was halfway through the jug.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       It was just pure, pure-

   25. MDMatt Damon1:34

       Like, fucking, like-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       ... catch fire from it.

   27. MDMatt Damon1:35

       Yeah, it was-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       Where was this?

   29. MDMatt Damon1:37

       In Beverly Hills.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:38

       [laughing]
3. 2:03 – 3:26

   Why Hunter S. Thompson’s writing still hits: voice, evolution, and influence

   1. SPSpeaker2:03

      That, I mean, those books, fucking Hell's Angels and, and, you know, Fear and Loathing, is some of the best writing. I, I just fucking... Like, he really had his own voice. Rum Diary, spectacular, you know. It was, like, really descriptive and punchy and fucking interesting and fucked up, and [chuckles] he also just lived that life. It was like-

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:19

      Fear and Loathing changed my life. Like, reading that book was like, "What the fuck?"

   3. SPSpeaker2:24

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:24

      Like, "What is this guy doing?" [laughing]

   5. MDMatt Damon2:26

      [laughing]

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:26

      There's grown men out there-

   7. MDMatt Damon2:28

      [laughing]

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:28

      ... balding, grown men with spectacles running around with a-

   9. SPSpeaker2:31

      Yeah, fucking think there's lizards in the fucking lounge. [laughing]

   10. MDMatt Damon2:34

       [laughing]

   11. SPSpeaker2:34

       Like, the guys are hallucinating and- [laughing]

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:36

       He's got, he's got a day trip bag filled with acid. Like, what the fuck are you doing, man?

   13. SPSpeaker2:41

       Ah, that was... And it's great shit. It's like you fucking feel like you're on the adventure with him, you know? It's like-

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       Yeah. No, it's a... It's, it's interesting to watch the, the evolution of his writing, too. You know, like, I, I read Hell's Angels, and it's, like, very different, you know, but it's-

   15. SPSpeaker2:55

       Yeah, it's early. He's kind of restrained-

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:57

       Mm

   17. SPSpeaker2:57

       ... and he was quite like... For that, I think it was edgy sort of for the time.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       Yeah.

   19. SPSpeaker3:01

       You know, like, "Oh, you're gonna get beat and chain-whipped and stomped by the Angels," and that was really edgy. And by the time they got to, what, Fear and Loathing, '72 or something like that, he, you know, he was just-

   20. MDMatt Damon3:10

       Yes, it was-

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:10

       Yeah, he was gone

   22. MDMatt Damon3:11

       ... out there.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:11

       And he was-

   24. MDMatt Damon3:11

       He found his voice.

   25. SPSpeaker3:12

       [chuckles] He did find his voice.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:13

       He was supposed to be covering a race for-

   27. SPSpeaker3:16

       Yeah, yeah

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:16

       ... like, Sports Illustrated. [laughing]

   29. MDMatt Damon3:18

       [laughing]

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:18

       That's a Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas-type problem.
4. 3:26 – 5:44

   ‘The Rip’ reactions and the shift from theaters to streaming dominance

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:26

      Oh, well, hey, it's very nice to meet you guys. I've met you before-

   2. SPSpeaker3:29

      Yeah

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:29

      ... but very nice to meet you.

   4. SPSpeaker3:30

      Pleasure, man. Thank you very much. Uh-

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:32

      And I, I love the fucking movie.

   6. SPSpeaker3:33

      Thank you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:33

      The Rip is great.

   8. MDMatt Damon3:34

      Thank you. Thanks.

   9. SPSpeaker3:34

      Thank you.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       It's really good. It's so original, and it's so, it's so different, and it's... You know, it's like I love those kind of movies, but it's not like any one that I've ever seen before. Really solid movie.

   11. SPSpeaker3:45

       Thanks, dude.

   12. MDMatt Damon3:46

       Thank you.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:46

       It was awesome.

   14. MDMatt Damon3:47

       So much better than you hating it and us having to [laughing] talk about it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       [laughing]

   16. SPSpeaker3:50

       The interviews where they're like, "So I saw the movie. Anyway, how you guys been?"

   17. MDMatt Damon3:53

       No. We've had, we've had a lot of those, the junk- uh, the press junkets where they come in, and the first thing that you know the movie [chuckles] sucks if, if they don't ask you anything about the movie. They come in, they go, "So how you been?"

   18. SPSpeaker4:01

       Yeah. [chuckles]

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:02

       Ah.

   20. MDMatt Damon4:02

       You know, and you're like, "Oh, shit, this is gonna be bad."

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:04

       Is it weird... Like, the, the transformation of the film industry seems like a lot of it is moving towards these big streaming movies now.

   22. SPSpeaker4:14

       Absolutely. I mean, look, it's because where most people have gone to watch them.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:18

       Yeah.

   24. SPSpeaker4:18

       Right? Like, used to be the only place you'd go see movies, in the '40s, like, every American went to the movie every week, basically. But it was 'cause it was that or watch the cows walk by, you know? That was the only... And then TV comes around, and it's little, and you're seeing these little serials. But, you know, what happened was, now this is why it's totally changed the whole thing because you have 300 million people, 330, whatever it is, watching, you know, Netflix, and it's a lot harder to get people to go into the movies. There's also YouTube. There's also TikTok. There's also... My kids, like, it's hard to get them excited about a movie.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:50

       Yeah.

   26. SPSpeaker4:50

       Which that's what we had. I mean, anything that came out-

   27. MDMatt Damon4:52

       Yeah, that was our... So I mean, our teen years were just every weekend, we're at the movies.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:57

       Yeah.

   29. MDMatt Damon4:57

       Um, there's just no question about it. You were gonna go and usually not get into one 'cause there were too many people, and then you just see what else is playing and go to that.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:04

       Well, it seems like it was kind of slipping away because so many people were watching streaming already, and then COVID came around, and everyone was locked down, and no one was going to the movie theater.
5. 5:44 – 8:24

   Prestige TV and the new quality bar: one-shot Netflix series and beyond

   1. SPSpeaker5:44

      you get a fucking 65-inch flat screen, like, and good sound. So of course, people are willing to- And then streamers also started making great shows. You have Adolescence, I don't know if you saw that. I think that's one of the best things ever done.

   2. MDMatt Damon5:56

      Yeah, it's amazing.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:57

      I haven't seen Adolescence.

   4. MDMatt Damon5:57

      It's unbelievable.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:58

      What is it?

   6. MDMatt Damon5:59

      Oh, my God!

   7. SPSpeaker6:00

      It's a fucking-

   8. MDMatt Damon6:00

      It's a, it's a, it's... I, I don't wanna spoil too much of it.

   9. SPSpeaker6:03

      Yeah.

   10. MDMatt Damon6:03

       It's only four episodes. Uh-

   11. SPSpeaker6:04

       They're all one shot.

   12. MDMatt Damon6:05

       They're all one shot. Each episode is one entire shot.

   13. SPSpeaker6:08

       Whoa!

   14. MDMatt Damon6:08

       So the cast, they took a, I think, a... I talked to the director about it, the cast took, I think, a, a week to rehearse each one-

   15. SPSpeaker6:14

       Yeah, they did like-

   16. MDMatt Damon6:15

       ... and then a week to shoot it.

   17. SPSpeaker6:16

       Yeah.

   18. MDMatt Damon6:16

       And so, so they'd, they'd do it twice a day. It's the full hour, they would choreograph the entire thing.

   19. SPSpeaker6:22

       It's a feat unto itself.

   20. MDMatt Damon6:22

       Yeah, it's really-

   21. SPSpeaker6:23

       And then the acting is great.

   22. MDMatt Damon6:24

       But, but that's the, uh... I mean, just dismiss that, even, you could even call it a gimmick. It's not, in this case, but, um, the performances, and the writing, and what it's about, it, it's, it's as good as anything-

   23. SPSpeaker6:37

       Yeah

   24. MDMatt Damon6:37

       ... you'll see. It's, it's phenomenal.

   25. SPSpeaker6:38

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan6:39

       What is it on?

   27. MDMatt Damon6:39

       Netflix.

   28. SPSpeaker6:40

       Netflix, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:41

       Oh, okay.

   30. SPSpeaker6:41

       You know, you have like... It's not, this is not even an anomaly. There's Baby Reinders, there's fucking Succession, there's Game of Thrones-
6. 8:24 – 10:30

   Why mid-budget original movies got squeezed: marketing math, risk, and IP obsession

   1. MDMatt Damon8:24

      Well, then movies started to move towards more IP, and they, and they, and-

   2. SPSpeaker8:27

      Right. Because it was hard to get people to come to the movies, everyone got scared and thought, "Well, you have to, it has to be a sequel or a superhero movie-

   3. MDMatt Damon8:32

      And, and so, and, and-

   4. SPSpeaker8:33

      ... to justify being in a theater"

   5. MDMatt Damon8:33

      ... an interesting little movie, kind of in the '90s, when we kind of came onto the scene, you know, there were a lot of really good independent movies that were being made. There was, there was, uh, you know, it was a really great time to be making movie- People were, th- they were making daring movies. And, and, and then everyone just got f- way more conservative because it's huge. Like, the, the business is so different, theatrically and streaming, because to put out a movie theatrically, you have to put so much more money behind it to publicize... Like, you're trying to get everybody-

   6. SPSpeaker9:03

      You're basically spending about what the budget was to make it, to advertise it.

   7. MDMatt Damon9:05

      To... Because you gotta-

   8. SPSpeaker9:06

      And you get 80% of the theatrical release.

   9. MDMatt Damon9:07

      Yeah, 'cause you split it with the, the, the movie house, right? Through the exhibitor.

   10. SPSpeaker9:10

       So a $25 million movie, to break even, you gotta make $100 million, and it's phew!

   11. MDMatt Damon9:13

       And so, and, and you gotta get everybody to not only know about the movie, but to show up, like, that Friday night, like, that specific time, you know, for that specific movie, and so to j- and to cut through all the noise that your people are contending with and, you know, people's-

   12. SPSpeaker9:26

       Well, then it just becomes about risk, and nobody wants to take the risk, so they don't wanna make something new because it's such an investment, and we're gonna lose all our fucking money. And the streamers have stepped into that, and like, now, you know, you don't have to necessarily have a star. You could try something more interesting or didn't have to be a superhero movie, whatever it was. And also, I think it's like, you know, frankly, like, people my age, like, it's... First of all, it's expensive, right? You take your whole family, it's $100. You're on a streaming service, $20 a month, you can watch all you want. So you can't be cavalier about... Like, you're just gonna price it however the fuck you want and expect everyone to, like, be indifferent to that. And then, you know, also, y- you know, the idea of, like, for me, you know, there's a lot of stuff I make that decision. Like, do I wanna see The Odyssey on, on a big screen? Fucking def- I went to a theater to w- just watch the trailer for that movie. And, you know, did I... One Battle After Another, I wanted to go see in the theater. But there's movies with people that I really like and respect, where, yeah, and I got a good system and shit, but I'm like: "Look, I'll watch," and I might get tired, or I'm gonna pause it and take a piss, or the kids, you know, whatever it is.

   13. MDMatt Damon10:24

       Yeah.

   14. SPSpeaker10:25

       That's conducive to my lifestyle, you know? And so-

   15. MDMatt Damon10:27

       And most people's lifestyle

   16. SPSpeaker10:28

       ... I even see few.

   17. MDMatt Damon10:29

       Yeah.

   18. SPSpeaker10:29

       I think most people are, yeah.

7. 10:30 – 18:49

   Theater as ‘church’ vs. at-home distraction—and how algorithms shape storytelling

   1. MDMatt Damon10:30

      But there is the experience of seeing it with a bunch of other people.

   2. SPSpeaker10:33

      100%.

   3. MDMatt Damon10:33

      When you see an awesome movie with a bunch of other people, it's like a shared experience.

   4. SPSpeaker10:36

      100%.

   5. MDMatt Damon10:37

      It's great.

   6. SPSpeaker10:37

      I, I, I always like an attention-

   7. MDMatt Damon10:38

      And you have people's attention more

   8. SPSpeaker10:39

      ... way more attent- Like, like, when I went to see One Battle on IMAX, like, you know, that feeling, there's nothing like that feeling. I took, you know, two of my kids, and two of my nephews, and my wife, and we all went, and we, it was just... It was like... And you're in with, y- you know, a bunch of strangers, but people in your community, and you're having this experience together. I always say it's more like going to, going to church. Like, you show up at an appointed time, you v- you know what I mean?

   9. MDMatt Damon11:02

      Yes.

   10. SPSpeaker11:02

       It doesn't wait for you. It st- you know, and-

   11. MDMatt Damon11:05

       Yeah

   12. SPSpeaker11:05

       ... versus the, the, the experience of watching at home, I think, you know, you're watching in a room, the lights are on, other shit's going on, the kids are running around, the dogs are running around, whatever it is. You know what I mean?

   13. MDMatt Damon11:15

       Yeah.

   14. SPSpeaker11:15

       It's just a very different level of attention that you're willing to, or that you're able to give to it, and that has a big effect. And it also ends up having an effect, or is starting to have an effect, on how you make movies. Like, for instance, Netflix, um, you know, standard way to make an action movie that we learned was, you know, you, you usually have, like, three set pieces, one in the first act, one in the second, and one in the third. And, you know, you kind, they kinda ramp up, and the big one with all the explosions, and you spend most [chuckles] of your money on that one in the third act. That's your kind of finale.

   15. MDMatt Damon11:46

       ... um, and now they're, you know, they're like: "Can we get a big one in the first five minutes to get somebody... You know, we want people to stay-

   16. SPSpeaker11:53

       Yeah

   17. MDMatt Damon11:53

       ... tuned in, and, and Ken, and, you know, it wouldn't be terrible if you reiterated the plot three or four times in the dialogue because people are on their phones while they're watching. [laughing]

   18. SPSpeaker12:03

       [laughing]

   19. MDMatt Damon12:03

       You know what I mean?

   20. SPSpeaker12:04

       Oh, no!

   21. MDMatt Damon12:04

       And so then it's gonna really start to infringe on how-

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:08

       Creatively.

   23. MDMatt Damon12:08

       -how we're telling the story.

   24. SPSpeaker12:09

       Yeah, but then you look at Our Lessons, it didn't do any of that shit.

   25. MDMatt Damon12:11

       It didn't do any of that.

   26. SPSpeaker12:12

       And it was fucking great.

   27. MDMatt Damon12:13

       Yeah.

   28. SPSpeaker12:13

       You know what I mean?

   29. MDMatt Damon12:13

       Yeah, yeah.

   30. SPSpeaker12:13

       So I think it's, it's dark, well, two-
8. 18:49 – 29:11

   Crew profit participation: bonuses, fairness, and a template Netflix agreed to test

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:49

      for the first 26 months. Ring in the new year with code SWITCH26. Share the savings with a deal that's too good to keep quiet. Switch now at visible.com. Terms apply. Limited time offer, subject to change. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. One of the things I read that I thought was really fucking cool is you guys set it up so that if this film performs well, the entire crew gets bonuses.

   2. SPSpeaker19:20

      Yeah.

   3. MDMatt Damon19:20

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:20

      That's awesome.

   5. MDMatt Damon19:22

      Yeah, the- w-

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:23

      I mean-

   7. MDMatt Damon19:23

      Hopefully, it's successful. [laughing]

   8. SPSpeaker19:25

      It's gotta be successful. [laughing]

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:25

      I think it's gonna get a shit house if it doesn't- if it doesn't pop-

   10. MDMatt Damon19:27

       It's a fucking great movie, man. It's a fun movie.

   11. SPSpeaker19:29

       But it's, it's, it's good, but it's not like, you know, fucking we're saints or philanthropists. Like, it's completely self-serving, in my opinion. Because in order to do the job well, everybody who's working on it has to be really invested and give a shit about the result, not their paycheck only. And, and sometimes you work with a crew that just happened to be great anyway, even though they don't really have to care about it, and they do. And what we saw was, like, that makes your movie better, and then there's just the thing of, like, the business is changing. You see these strikes and work stoppages, all these fucking questions. In order for this, I think, to, to survive and to be, you know, a good middle-class fucking ar-artist, you know, artisanal craftsman job, we've got 1,200 people that, you know, need to have reliable jobs, and part of the negotiations is always like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we're all gonna get fucked." Like, we have no participation. Like, you used to working on movies, and it happens to a- actors, too, where you go, "Oh, we all invested. It was really hard, and we fucking put in the extra effort." Somebody else walked away with all the success.

   12. JRJoe Rogan20:29

       Mm.

   13. SPSpeaker20:30

       And you, uh... You know, my theory is, was with Matt, was we were like, "How about where let's say, okay, it's just fairness, right? If this thing actually blows up and does really well, y- you should benefit from that." People have been, you know, kind of given sort of promises of, of participation back and haven't come true. So this is like the cr- everyone got their rates, everyone got their hourly, no one cut anything. This is just an exercise in actually proving that it's not bullshit, that if there's success, you'll get some extra. A little success, a little extra. A little more, a little more. I like that.

   14. MDMatt Damon20:59

       But also, like you said, 'cause it's fair, you know?

   15. SPSpeaker21:01

       It's fair.

   16. MDMatt Damon21:01

       And, and, and in success, the people who made the movie should, you know, should participate in that. And, and also f- with this one, which was important to us, there's a... You know, they, they delineate above the line and below the line, right? Like above the line being, like, us-

   17. SPSpeaker21:15

       Basically, like-

   18. MDMatt Damon21:15

       ... the director and the cast

   19. SPSpeaker21:16

       - the producers and the...

   20. JRJoe Rogan21:17

       Mm-hmm.

   21. MDMatt Damon21:18

       Um, and below the line being kind of the more blue-collar side of our industry, and, and-

   22. SPSpeaker21:23

       Like painters, grips, camera people-

   23. MDMatt Damon21:24

       Yeah

   24. SPSpeaker21:25

       ... everybody else, the drivers on.

   25. MDMatt Damon21:26

       And so we just wanted, we w- we... And believed, like, when we started this company, we were like, "Look, you know, we know who makes our movie better," right? It's not, it's, it's, like, they've... This has kind of been mispriced the whole time. Like, the economics [chuckles] have been wrong. Like, when there's a, when there's a big success, everybody who had a hand on it should-

   26. SPSpeaker21:44

       Yeah, because you see a great director that people rely on or an actor that's considered bankable, they're all going, "Okay, I need all my people with me."

   27. MDMatt Damon21:49

       Yeah, every great-

   28. SPSpeaker21:50

       Because they're... Yeah

   29. MDMatt Damon21:50

       ... director I've worked with, and I've worked with a lot of them, they have their regular crew members-

   30. JRJoe Rogan21:55

       Right
9. 29:11 – 32:46

   How ‘The Rip’ came together: script acquisition, Joe Carnahan, and producing strategy

   1. JRJoe Rogan29:11

      How does anything get done? How does anything get done? When you started to make this film, like, what, what is the process? Like, how did you guys agree on it? Like, what it... D-d-did you guys have it written first?

   2. MDMatt Damon29:22

      Was it-

   3. SPSpeaker29:22

      Joe Carnahan wrote it.

   4. MDMatt Damon29:23

      Yeah, Joe, so-

   5. JRJoe Rogan29:24

      Before you knew you were going to Netflix with it?

   6. MDMatt Damon29:26

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker29:26

      Yeah.

   8. MDMatt Damon29:27

      He came to us with the script, and we've known Joe for a really... He did a movie. His first movie was called Narc. I don't know if you ever saw it.

   9. SPSpeaker29:32

      Yeah.

   10. MDMatt Damon29:32

       It's terrific.

   11. SPSpeaker29:33

       It's a great movie, yeah.

   12. MDMatt Damon29:33

       So we met him way back, this, 25 years ago or, uh, something like that, and so we met him, met him back then, and Ben did, you did a movie of his in-

   13. SPSpeaker29:41

       Did Smoke and Ashes

   14. MDMatt Damon29:42

       ... '04, I think. And so we've known Joe for a really long time and kind of been in touch with him over the years, and, and he just sent this to us and said... And we read it, and we thought it was great and, and, and, and bought it for the company. And then we started talking to Joe about, you know, how he saw it, you know, how he wanted to do it, and, and he suggested that we d- actually do the movie. Um, and we, and we were like, "Yeah, why don't we do it? It seems, um-

   15. SPSpeaker30:06

       Basically, 'cause we liked it, and-

   16. MDMatt Damon30:07

       We liked it, yeah. [chuckles]

   17. SPSpeaker30:07

       ... part of it's like, we're not trying to just do our movies. We wanna be-... you know, doing movies with all these, the people that we like and respect, and, and, and then, you know, the way we sort of set it up is such that to try to get, like, the— historically, the way it's worked is, like, the, you know, a studio will own a, a, a, an IP or a script or whatever, and then you cut, and they'll say: "Okay, we want you to do it." "Okay, well, how much?" "Well, how much did you get for the last one, right?" And you go, "Well, what's the budget?" And then that's how they assign a value to it, right? But, like, my belief was, well, especially when these streamers were, like, coming into the market and, and chasing stuff, is like, this movie may, may be worth more, it may be worth less, and that, like, w-we're all just subject to that. So we'll try to get the best price for it, and we'll all share it, you know, pro rata. And essentially, that, that was the same process. We've done eight, I guess, movies or so now.

   18. MDMatt Damon30:55

       Yeah.

   19. SPSpeaker30:55

       And, and, uh, we took it out, and, you know, people wanted it. And then one of the things that was really appealing about Netflix was that they were open to this, this idea that we've been trying to institutionalize. And it was like: Okay, great! That's, that's really meaningful because ideally, it becomes a template that other people go, "Hey, we wanna do that thing," you know? And then we go, "Oh, here's the paperwork."

   20. MDMatt Damon31:13

       Yeah, that's the thing. Like, a lot of people say that they would wanna do it, but it... Now, now that template exists, so it's like plug and play. So if you're, if you're not full of shit, and you really do mean that, then guess what? Just take this, and go do it, you know.

   21. SPSpeaker31:26

       And it's also gonna let you, you know, I hope, like, m-manage the risk. In other words, the argument you always have is like: Well, shit, we gotta invest all this money in the movie. So you can't have your protagonist be too objectionable. That's too edgy or can't be R-rated 'cause it costs this much. I get it, right? You're gonna put all your money into it. You want-- you don't want money to fucking disappear. You wanna make money, okay. So if, like, when we wrote the first movie that we... Good Will Hunting, it was like, we knew that had to be a cheap movie. People talking in rooms to each other 'cause no one's [chuckles] gonna put a bunch of money into a movie-

   22. MDMatt Damon31:55

       And do a movie with us. [chuckles]

   23. SPSpeaker31:56

       ... two assholes that no one heard of. So it was like, okay, what can we do that's interesting, that, and try to keep it as inexpensive as possible so that we can make the argument that someone should make the movie? That same logic, like, carries through every time you're asking somebody to invest in something. So what I'd like to have happen is to say, "Okay, now that we know there's a reliable system where we understand that, like, in success, we'll actually benefit, we can lower, you know, the price up front for you so that you can have a low fucking barrier to entry, so that you can take the risk, so that we can do something really interesting, that's, that's an original idea, that's, uh, you know, that's an Anomam or a Sinners or a fucking Marty Supreme or whatever it is. And, and then if it's successful, we're not all sitting here like assholes, where, you know, [chuckles] you guys walk off with all the money, but... And you can have that happen in an ongoing way, so that you can make more interesting stuff."

10. 32:46 – 38:18

    AI in filmmaking: hype vs. reality, likeness rights, and AI as a tool not an author

    1. JRJoe Rogan32:46

       A lot of the stuff that was going on with the strikes was centered around AI and what AI is gonna do to the business. Like, w-where do you feel is gonna be, like, the biggest problem with AI? Is it gonna be with people's likenesses? 'Cause there's a lot of that, where they want, they wanna use extras and own their digital rights forever, essentially be able to recreate them in any kind of film. But then there's also... You're gonna have films that are written by artificial intelligence. You're gonna have scenes that don't involve people, and it gets weird, right?

    2. MDMatt Damon33:19

       [lips smack] It gets really weird, but this actually is an area of-

    3. SPSpeaker33:21

       It's tricky, like-

    4. MDMatt Damon33:22

       ... expertise for him.

    5. SPSpeaker33:22

       Yeah, we've been spending time looking at this. Like, my belief is, it's sort of like, what's gonna happen with electricity? Well, a lot of shit's gonna happen with electricity. Some of it's gonna be good, some of it's gonna change stuff, some of it's gonna be like, [chuckles] you know, this is gonna be, you know, shit that kills a bunch of people. Like, it's, it's, it's opening a door that you can't, um, you know, say, well, talk about in a kind of a blanket way. But I think with what I see is, like, for example, if you try to get ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini to write you something, it's really shitty. And it's shitty because by its nature, it goes to the mean, to the average, and it's, and it's not reliable, and it's-- I mean, I, I just can't even stand to see what it writes. Now, it's a useful tool if you're a writer, and you're going, "Ah, what's the thing? I'm trying to set something up," or somebody sends someone a letter, but it's delayed two days and gets... And it can give you some examples of that. [coughs] I actually don't think it's very likely that it can- it's gonna be able to write anything meaningful or, and in particular, that it's gonna be making movies, like, from whole cloth, like Tilly Norville. Like, that's bullshit. I don't think that's gonna happen. I think it's not-- I think it actually turns out the technology is not progressing in exactly the same way they sort of presented it. Um, and really, what it is, it's gonna be a tool, just like sort of visual effects. And yeah, it needs to have language around it. You need to protect your name and likeness. You can do that. You can watermark it. Your-- those laws already exist. You can't-- I can't sell your fucking picture for money. I can't. You can sue me, period. I might have the ability to draw you, to make you in a very realistic way, but that's already against the law, and the unions are gonna... I think the guilds are gonna manage this, where it's like, okay, look, if this is a tool that actually helps us, for example, we don't have to go to the North Pole, right? We can shoot the scene here in our parkas and, you know, whatever it is, and, but then make it appear very realistically as if we're in the North Pole. It'll save us a lot of money, a lot of time. We're gonna focus on the performances and not be freezing our ass off out there and running back inside. That's useful, just like Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn used to be, like, driving their car, and there's-

    6. JRJoe Rogan35:23

       Yeah

    7. SPSpeaker35:23

       ... a wind blowing a painting behind them, and it looked goofy. [laughing] And, you know, now, you know, in computer-generated-

    8. JRJoe Rogan35:28

       Yeah

    9. SPSpeaker35:28

       ... people use a lot of computer-generated stuff, and some of it is gonna replace just that. Like, instead of, uh, five hundred guys in Singapore, you know, making two dollars an hour to, to render all the graphics for a superhero movie, they're just gonna be able to do that a lot easier. There's already laws around and guild guidelines around, like, how many union extras you have to use. But also, we've been tiling extras. Like, there weren't a million Orcs in Middle Earth, [chuckles] you know what I mean?

    10. JRJoe Rogan35:52

        Right.

    11. SPSpeaker35:53

        In Invictus, there weren't all those people in the stadium. Like, that's something we've been doing. It kind of feels to me like the thing we were talking about earlier, where there's a lot more fear because we have the sense, this existential dread. It's gonna wipe everything out.

    12. JRJoe Rogan36:05

        Right.

    13. SPSpeaker36:06

        But that actually runs counter, in my view, to what history seems to show, which is, A, adoption is slow, it's incremental. Um, I think a lot of that rhetoric comes from people who are trying to justify valuations around companies. [chuckles]

    14. JRJoe Rogan36:21

        Mm.

    15. SPSpeaker36:21

        Where they go, "We're gonna change everything. In two years, there's gonna be no more work."

    16. JRJoe Rogan36:24

        Right.

    17. SPSpeaker36:24

        Well, the reason they're saying that is because they need to ascribe a valuation for investment that can warrant the CapEx spend they're gonna make on these data centers, with the argument that, like, "Oh, you know, as soon as we do the next model, it's gonna scale up. It's gonna be three times as good." Except that actually, ChatGPT-5, about twenty-five time-- percent better than ChatGPT-4 and costs about four times as much in the way of electricity and data. So those when they say that it's, like, plateauing-... The early AI, the line went up very steeply, and it's now sort of leveling off. I think it's because, and yes, it'll get better, but it's gonna be really expensive to get better. And a lot of people are like, "Fuck this, we want ChatGPT-4!" Because it turned out, like, the vast majority of people who use AI are using it to, like, as, like, companion bots to chat with at night. And so there's no work, there's no productivity, there's no value to it. I would argue there's also not a lot of social value to getting people to, like, focus on an AI friend who's, you know, [chuckles] telling you that you're great and listening to everything you say, and being sycophantic. But that's sort of a, a side issue. I think for this particular purpose, like, the way I see the technology and what it's good at and what it's not, it's gonna be good at filling in all the places that are expensive and burdensome, and they make it harder to do it. And it's always gonna rely fundamentally on the human artistic aspects of it.

    18. JRJoe Rogan37:45

        Well, I think the more it becomes ubiquitous, the more people are gonna appreciate real things that are made by real people. You know, like, you're, you, you still appreciate a handmade table. You know?

    19. SPSpeaker37:56

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan37:56

        You're, you're gonna appreciate... Uh, like, did you see, um, [lips smack] uh, The Beast in Me, Claire Danes?

    21. SPSpeaker38:01

        Yeah.

    22. MDMatt Damon38:01

        No, I didn't. I didn't-

    23. JRJoe Rogan38:02

        Fucking great.

    24. MDMatt Damon38:02

        Yeah, I heard it was great.

    25. JRJoe Rogan38:03

        That lady, woo! [chuckles]

    26. SPSpeaker38:05

        She's terrific.

    27. JRJoe Rogan38:06

        Woo! When she's in a scene, you're just like, "Jesus Christ!"

    28. MDMatt Damon38:09

        Great, great actress.

    29. JRJoe Rogan38:10

        Like, you-- like, her fucking lips are quivering.

    30. MDMatt Damon38:12

        Yeah. [chuckles]
11. 38:18 – 50:48

    Why human acting can’t be faked: The Smashing Machine, lived trauma, and authenticity

    1. MDMatt Damon38:18

       I would say, like, I, I did this interview [clears throat] with, uh, with Dwayne Johnson, 'cause they, you know, they... When people are in these awards things, they sometimes have other actors interview them, you know. And I, I did this interview with Dwayne, and, and, and I asked him, there's this scene in The Smashing Machine where, where he's overdosed on drugs, and his buddy comes to see him in the hospital.

    2. SPSpeaker38:37

       Yeah.

    3. MDMatt Damon38:37

       And, and it really walloped me, this scene. I thought it was so great, and, and I asked him, and I was just like: "Can you just tell me about this scene? Like, did Benny, Benny Safdie directed it. Did Benny write this, write that? Did you work on that scene with him? Did you..." He goes, "No, we, we actually worked on it together." And I go, "Well, but how did that scene come to be?" And Dwayne goes, "Well, my father was an alcoholic," and I don't remember if he said substance abuser or alcoholic, but, but I, I didn't know the man. I don't want to impugn him. But, but he had, he had a substance issue, whatever it was. He goes, "And, and when he would talk to me, uh, you know, that's how he would defend himself." It was almost a bargaining thing, 'cause there's this thing when this guy comes to him, he's overdosed, and Dwayne's amazing in this scene. He's, he's going like... He's going like, "Yeah, isn't it crazy? And then I woke up, and so, I mean, I could hear him, but I couldn't really hear him." And you see him, he's kinda tap dancing.

    4. SPSpeaker39:25

       Mm.

    5. MDMatt Damon39:25

       And his friend finally kinda holds his feet to the fire. And at that moment, Dwayne literally starts to burst into tears and just pulls the hospital sheet up over his head. And it's like, and it's, and it's, i- I mean, it's just... It was- I'm, I'm not doing it justice if you haven't... I mean, I know you've seen it.

    6. SPSpeaker39:45

       I've seen it.

    7. MDMatt Damon39:45

       I know you've seen it.

    8. SPSpeaker39:45

       It's an amazing scene.

    9. MDMatt Damon39:46

       Yeah. But, um, he said yes, so he explains that about his father, and then he goes, "And, and, uh, when my mom was diagnosed with stage three lung cancer, I was with her when the oncologist came in, and she was lying in the hospital bed. And when he gave her the news, she pulled the sheet up over her head."

    10. SPSpeaker40:04

        Whew.

    11. MDMatt Damon40:04

        "And I looked at her, and she just looked like a little, like a little kid, you know?"

    12. SPSpeaker40:08

        Wow.

    13. MDMatt Damon40:08

        And I was like, "All right." [sniffs] Like, so that, right, is two traumatic events from this guy's life, right? From his life experience. And the actor in him, right, sees this scene, goes into his memory, pulls these two things out, understands that they're appropriate for this scene, and he can marry them together in the scene, and then he goes and performs it that way. And a dude walking in off the road goes to the movies, sees this, understands somehow that it's fucking real.

    14. SPSpeaker40:46

        Right.

    15. MDMatt Damon40:46

        I, I didn't know why. I-

    16. SPSpeaker40:47

        Right

    17. MDMatt Damon40:47

        ... That's why I wanted to ask him: How did that scene come to be? I genuinely didn't know. And made me tear up, and, you know... It like-

    18. SPSpeaker40:57

        Yeah

    19. MDMatt Damon40:57

        ... that is-

    20. SPSpeaker40:58

        And, and there's-

    21. MDMatt Damon40:58

        There's no fucking AI that can do that

    22. SPSpeaker41:00

        ... technology that can-

    23. JRJoe Rogan41:00

        No.

    24. MDMatt Damon41:00

        No.

    25. SPSpeaker41:01

        It's a whole lot more than photorealistic images-

    26. JRJoe Rogan41:04

        Yeah

    27. SPSpeaker41:04

        ... uh, Dwayne Johnson.

    28. MDMatt Damon41:04

        Yeah, that, you, you could, you could, you could have an AI understand Dwayne's face and move his face into different, but no fucking thing-

    29. SPSpeaker41:11

        You'd never do that

    30. MDMatt Damon41:11

        ... could ever do that.
12. 50:48 – 54:22

    Making conflict feel real: ad-libs, trust, and listening (Curb/Greengrass method)

    1. JRJoe Rogan50:48

       Well, there's some scenes in this movie, without giving too much away, where there's conflict between you two guys that seems so real, and that's even harder to recreate 'cause you guys are good friends. And you're making the movie together, and you've got this scene where you're acting in this, and it- with the conflict with the two of you guys in the movie, but it's very fucking real.

    2. MDMatt Damon51:06

       The reason that it was real is... That, I like that scene. The reason it's, it, it, it works, I think, is because he's coming at me, and he's, he really needs to know something, and I'm completely blanking him. Like, I'm just... He's going, "You gotta tell me what's going on, man!" [chuckles]

    3. SPSpeaker51:23

       Yeah.

    4. MDMatt Damon51:23

       He's like, "It's awesome. Like, what, what is going- what is the thing?" And I, and I'm just, like, literally kind of blanking him in this bizarre way, which, which, like, was really frustrating him in real life [chuckles] because he, he was-

    5. SPSpeaker51:37

       That's also the most-

    6. MDMatt Damon51:37

       ... 'Cause that feeling of like, " Dude, it's fucking tell me, dude. It's you," and be like-

    7. SPSpeaker51:41

       Right.

    8. MDMatt Damon51:41

       When he finally goes, uh, he screams out, "I don't trust you right now," [chuckles] that's a fucking problem, right? Which is, like, what you would say to an old friend, like, "What are you doing, man? Like, what, what, what are you do..." Like, are you-

    9. SPSpeaker51:53

       Like, the betrayal is like, yeah.

    10. MDMatt Damon51:53

        Tell, tell me the fucking... The betrayal is that-

    11. SPSpeaker51:55

        Lie to me or tell me the truth.

    12. MDMatt Damon51:56

        Lie, lie to me or tell me the truth.

    13. SPSpeaker51:57

        But don't fuck me and, like, step outside our whole relationship, and all of a sudden-

    14. MDMatt Damon52:01

        Just-

    15. SPSpeaker52:01

        ... act like, you know-

    16. MDMatt Damon52:02

        Give me this weird look of just like, "I don't know." You know, like [laughing] ...

    17. SPSpeaker52:06

        [laughing]

    18. MDMatt Damon52:07

        And so we're doing the scene, it was really fucking pissing him off. I could see him, like, getting like-

    19. SPSpeaker52:13

        There's the one line that wasn't written that I saw, that I didn't remember doing, was, "I would've never fucked you like this."

    20. MDMatt Damon52:16

        I ne- "I would've never fucked you like this," yeah.

    21. SPSpeaker52:19

        Which I didn't even remember saying. And George, "I like that line. Keep that thing, 'I wouldn't have fucked you.'" And I was, I thought, I was like, "What is he... I thought, what did I say?" You know, I, and I so watched the playback. It was one of those rare moments, again, it was like where he, it was that thing of you doing all the work by, by not doing anything, which I didn't expect, uh, that to be the choice-

    22. MDMatt Damon52:36

        [chuckles]

    23. SPSpeaker52:36

        ... that you made, and it just was confusing, and it felt like just, you know, leaving you out in the fucking cold. And the only thing I could rely on is like, "I, you know, I w- I would, I wouldn't do this to you," [chuckles] you know?

    24. JRJoe Rogan52:47

        So do you have, in those moments where you're, you're ad-libbing a line, where a line come... Is it just, just that feels like that's what you say?

    25. SPSpeaker52:55

        Yeah.

    26. MDMatt Damon52:55

        It's just kinda like he couldn't stop from saying it.

    27. JRJoe Rogan52:57

        Right.

    28. MDMatt Damon52:58

        You know?

    29. SPSpeaker52:58

        But you have to be working with somebody that makes that okay. You know what I mean? 'Cause the part of your brain that will, like, govern you or tell you something's not okay, whatever, will, will step in if it's sorta like, "You know, listen, I expect you to fucking do this in this box." And there's, there's, uh, directors and writers who, who really do really care about every word precisely, and that, you know, and that's, that's how they do it, and that's fine. That can be great, too. For me, like, it, it... I find it's, it becomes more interesting and sometimes better stuff happens if you actually feel like you don't have to say any of the lines. I don't have to say any of the lines in this scene, then I'll tend to say the ones [chuckles] that feel right. But it-

    30. MDMatt Damon53:35

        Right
13. 54:22 – 1:14:20

    Research-driven realism: Miami narcotics teams, Cocaine Cowboys, and ‘The Town’ details

    1. MDMatt Damon54:22

       Well, what's, because what's also happening is that forces you to really listen, right? And that is, that is the hardest thing to kind of learn for young actors, I think, is, is it's really all about listening. And like I did m- a bunch of movies with Paul Greengrass, and that's how he works, where he, where you just know the agenda going in. You know some basic things that you... You know what your guy needs going in. Like, I was playing a chief warrant officer, and I had to go through a door, and there was a guy, and I needed to interrogate him, and I... This is what I needed to know from him. I needed to secure the house with my guys, and I needed to get to this guy. We needed to make sure everybody here was secure. So, and it just, and the, and he put me with a bunch of real combat veterans, and we fucking went in and, you know, they're the experts.

    2. SPSpeaker55:07

       Which is another thing that does your job for you, by the way.

    3. MDMatt Damon55:09

       It's just having around the real people.

    4. SPSpeaker55:11

       Joe putting the, the cops from Miami, you know, on these parts, and it, it just, like by osmosis, you feel more legitimate. The thing feels more authentic to the audience. You don't know why, because you don't know what the, how, what the fucking culture is of the narc- tactical narcotics team in Miami. But when you see the real guys, you kinda, oh, you're like, "Yeah, that seems right." [chuckles]

    5. JRJoe Rogan55:30

       And Miami is the perfect place to have it, too.

    6. MDMatt Damon55:32

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker55:32

       Miami is such a fucking nutty place.

    8. MDMatt Damon55:33

       Well, it's also specific to this, 'cause it's based on this real tactical narcotics team in, in, in Miami, and-... and, uh, and the guy who ran that, this guy Chris Casiano, is Joe's friend, and he's the guy that my character's based on. Um, so Chris was- Chris, we went... You know, we rode along with Chris down there. We went with that team and watched them operate, and then hung out with them, and then they came up, and they were, you know, all in the movie, and Chris was around as a technical advisor the whole time. So any question, like little details, "All right, how do I go through this door? What do I do? What do you do here? What's the, what's the protocol here? What..." You know, all of that stuff was kind of overseen by him so that it, so that it was how they really do it.

    9. JRJoe Rogan56:13

       That whole fucking town is so- did you ever see Cocaine Cowboys?

    10. SPSpeaker56:16

        Yeah.

    11. MDMatt Damon56:16

        Yes. [laughs]

    12. JRJoe Rogan56:17

        Ooh!

    13. SPSpeaker56:18

        Shit.

    14. MDMatt Damon56:18

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan56:19

        The entire fucking graduating class of the police academy one year either wound up murdered or in jail. [laughing]

    16. SPSpeaker56:26

        Yeah. But that's what happens-

    17. MDMatt Damon56:27

        Yeah

    18. SPSpeaker56:27

        ... when all of a sudden you push so much fucking money into something, right?

    19. JRJoe Rogan56:31

        Oh, yeah.

    20. SPSpeaker56:31

        And it's like, and before they even kind of figured out, like, you know, and it was, there wasn't even a lot of stigma. It was like, "Ah, cocaine, whatever. It's kind of rich guys' fun drug." But, you know, there's some statistic about, like, you know, the amount of money in the banks in Miami-

    21. JRJoe Rogan56:46

        Oh, yeah

    22. SPSpeaker56:46

        ... was, like, the same as the rest of the country. [chuckles]

    23. JRJoe Rogan56:48

        More banks-

    24. SPSpeaker56:49

        Where do you think that's coming from?

    25. JRJoe Rogan56:49

        ... per capita in Miami than anywhere else in the country.

    26. MDMatt Damon56:52

        Right. Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan56:53

        Because they were just laundering money.

    28. MDMatt Damon56:54

        Right.

    29. JRJoe Rogan56:55

        And they got away with it.

    30. MDMatt Damon56:56

        Have you ever-
14. 1:14:20 – 1:28:43

    Complex characters, cancellation, and the need for grace and redemption

    1. SPSpeaker1:14:20

       I mean, look, the fundamental, like, challenge, I think, in life and, is like, in m- is like, to find some-... humility, which means actually thinking you might be wrong about the shit that you're pretty sure about. And it means that, like, you kinda have to assume somebody else might have a point. You know, it's not like just writing everybody else off who disagrees with you because, "Oh, fuck him, he's, dude, he's an asshole, he's a..." You know, like, those are things that actually take work to get to. Because the, the first instinct, 'cause you just defend your idea or whatever, it's easier-

    2. MDMatt Damon1:14:52

       Right

    3. SPSpeaker1:14:52

       ... is to just-

    4. MDMatt Damon1:14:52

       That it's a zero-sum game somehow.

    5. SPSpeaker1:14:53

       Yeah, exactly.

    6. MDMatt Damon1:14:54

       Yeah, that, that two competing ideas can't exist, right?

    7. SPSpeaker1:14:57

       Well, that somebody can't be a good person and, and disagree-

    8. MDMatt Damon1:14:59

       Like, and believe... Right. Right.

    9. SPSpeaker1:15:00

       That's the p- Like, if you're gonna decide, it's, "Oh, you can disagree, we don't believe so, or I don't know, what about this or what about that?" But once you find yourself relying on, like, "Well, I need to, like, zero out this person's humanity-

    10. MDMatt Damon1:15:10

        Right

    11. SPSpeaker1:15:11

        ... in order to defend my idea," I think that's a pretty good indicator that, like, there's something wrong with the way you're thinking. Like, because it can't be that you're right about [chuckles] everything-

    12. MDMatt Damon1:15:19

        Right

    13. SPSpeaker1:15:19

        ... and everyone else is bad who disagrees with you.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:15:21

        And I think that was one of the most interesting things about The Sopranos, is that the main character, the guy that you loved, was a fucking murderer.

    15. MDMatt Damon1:15:30

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:15:30

        He was like, uh... Who would murder his friends, and he was a, a-

    17. MDMatt Damon1:15:34

        Yeah

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:15:34

        ... a complete mobster and a thug, but you really loved him.

    19. MDMatt Damon1:15:38

        You yeah, loved the shit out of that guy.

    20. SPSpeaker1:15:39

        Yeah, you cared about him.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:15:39

        It was so complicated-

    22. MDMatt Damon1:15:41

        I'm re-watching it with my daughter right now [chuckles]

    23. SPSpeaker1:15:43

        ... and James Gandolfini was so good at doing the part-

    24. MDMatt Damon1:15:44

        He's, he's-

    25. SPSpeaker1:15:44

        ... that you found yourself being like, "I don't know, I think, uh, you, he probably has to kill him now."

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:15:48

        Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker1:15:48

        "Probably gonna kill him."

    28. MDMatt Damon1:15:48

        But that's, that's also, that's also great, a great actor. Like, there's a very famous story about Marlon Brando when he did Streetcar Named Desire, and Tennessee Williams, who wrote it, like, freaked out because he was making Stanley Kowalski... He was making people empathize with Stanley Kowalski.

    29. SPSpeaker1:16:07

        Oh.

    30. MDMatt Damon1:16:07

        And Tennessee Williams was like, "But I wrote him as a brute. He's this, he was like a two-dimensional brute who just came and beat up his wife," and b- you know, and, and was just, and was supposed to be this kind of dark, looming force over the play. But Brando was like, "No, he's a human being, and I'm gonna play him like a fucking human being." And, and it changed the, the play. But, but Williams, in much of his writings-
15. 1:28:43 – 1:36:53

    Greatness and its cost: Spielberg craft, fame, and the athlete vs. actor timeline

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:28:43

       That's amazing. You guys have been in some fucking bangers, man. Saving Private Ryan, that opening film, the storming of the beach-

    2. MDMatt Damon1:28:51

       Unbelievable

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:28:52

       ... That might be the, the most realistic depiction of war that's ever been made.

    4. MDMatt Damon1:28:56

       So I remember reading the script, and there was all this dialogue, all this stuff that was written. And I came late, 'cause I'm only in the... And he shot it chronologically, and I'm only in the last, you know, the last act of the movie, basically. And, and, uh, and he told me on set, I was saying, "How..." I go, "How did it go at the beginning?" I go, "You know, there's that, all that dialogue with them on the boat coming in," and, and Steven goes... He just goes, "I cut, I cut all of that out." He goes, he goes, "No talking for the first 27 minutes of this movie."

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:29:26

       Whoa!

    6. MDMatt Damon1:29:27

       And that was when I was like, "Oh, my God, this movie's gonna be fucking unbelievable."

    7. SPSpeaker1:29:31

       Yeah, that's just-

    8. MDMatt Damon1:29:31

       I think Tom says, like, "I'll see you on the beach" or something. He's scream- you know, guys are puking-

    9. SPSpeaker1:29:35

       Look at the man next to you-

    10. MDMatt Damon1:29:36

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, remember the-

    11. SPSpeaker1:29:37

        ... He's not gonna live through it.

    12. MDMatt Damon1:29:38

        That that was the script, right?

    13. SPSpeaker1:29:39

        Right.

    14. MDMatt Damon1:29:39

        Remember that?

    15. SPSpeaker1:29:40

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. MDMatt Damon1:29:40

        It was, it was, it was, "Look at the man next to you. He won't live..." You know-

    17. SPSpeaker1:29:43

        He's gonna die, yeah.

    18. MDMatt Damon1:29:43

        He's like, "Two out of three of you are gonna die, so look at, to your left, look to your right, and feel bad for those two sons of bitches, 'cause they're not gonna make it." You know, it was stuff like that, and Steven was just like, "Nope, no."

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:29:54

        Wow.

    20. MDMatt Damon1:29:55

        "No." These guys are puking. They're ve- It's like the thing's up, you can just hear tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, you know? And it's just like... And then just boom, and you're into it, and-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:30:04

        [exhales]

    22. MDMatt Damon1:30:04

        ... Also, they did this incredible, like, like-

    23. SPSpeaker1:30:06

        Little guy changing

    24. MDMatt Damon1:30:06

        ... cinema changing-

    25. SPSpeaker1:30:08

        Yeah, open the shutter

    26. MDMatt Damon1:30:09

        ... Open the shutter all the way.

    27. SPSpeaker1:30:10

        Took away all the motion blur.

    28. MDMatt Damon1:30:11

        Yeah, yeah.

    29. SPSpeaker1:30:11

        They skipped the b- the bleach process in developing the film.

    30. MDMatt Damon1:30:14

        I don't, I, I-
16. 1:36:53 – 2:11:43

    MMA deep dive: peak performance, CTE, psychedelics/ibogaine, and the ethics of enhancement

    1. SPSpeaker1:36:53

       You see it in a lot of the fighters, the same kind of thing, the great-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:36:56

       Oh, yeah

    3. SPSpeaker1:36:56

       ... great fighters.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:36:57

       Well, also, fighters have a very small window of greatness. There's, uh, there's only, like, a certain amount of years we can burn the RPMs-

    5. MDMatt Damon1:37:04

       Mm

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:37:04

       ... at, at the red line, and then eventually the knees go, the back goes. You, you start to-

    7. MDMatt Damon1:37:08

       Is it earlier than other sports? It must be, yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:37:10

       Yes, I think so. Because, like, Tom Brady is still elite. I bet he could probably play football right now. I bet he... You know, what- how old is Tom now? 40?

    9. MDMatt Damon1:37:17

       He's probably 47 or 8 now, probably.

    10. SPSpeaker1:37:20

        Like that, yeah.

    11. MDMatt Damon1:37:20

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:37:20

        I bet he could still play, you know?

    13. MDMatt Damon1:37:22

        Yeah, I mean, but that's a... Yeah, I mean, that's a very specific skill position-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:37:25

        Yes

    15. MDMatt Damon1:37:25

        ... and the way he played it, he, you know, he, yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:37:27

        Right, but running back, no.

    17. MDMatt Damon1:37:28

        Right.

    18. SPSpeaker1:37:29

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:37:29

        Right.

    20. MDMatt Damon1:37:29

        Right, right.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:37:29

        But at-

    22. MDMatt Damon1:37:30

        Cornerback, you know.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:37:31

        The elite levels of MMA, especially with USADA testing and, you know, and now, uh, drug-free sport testing, when they are making sure that people aren't on testosterone and growth hormone, all these different things, like, you have nine years.

    24. MDMatt Damon1:37:45

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:37:45

        You have nine years at peak performance.

    26. MDMatt Damon1:37:47

        Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:37:47

        That's legitimate. Like-

    28. MDMatt Damon1:37:49

        How long has Jon Jones been going?

    29. SPSpeaker1:37:50

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:37:50

        Jon Jones is a freak of all freaks.

Episode duration: 2:24:06