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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #106 with Leon Edwards

Joe is joined by mixed martial artist Leon Edwards, who is currently competing in the UFC's Welterweight division.

Joe RoganhostLeon Edwardsguest
Jun 27, 20242h 5mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:02 – 1:32

    Post-fight flow state and why the Apex crowd-free setup helps

    1. JR

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Leon, what's up?

    4. LE

      I'm good. How are you?

    5. JR

      I'm... Dude, uh, first of all, fun hanging with you last night.

    6. LE

      It was a good night.

    7. JR

      It was good time.

    8. LE

      Definitely the first time seeing you, um, live. I, I was saying to my, my man- manager, he's so eff- effortless. He's, like, talking, right, but it's still funny. It was like, if you can approach fighting like that, like make it eff- e- um, effortless, then that... You're doing a good job.

    9. JR

      Well, I think some guys can at certain stages, right? Like, there's moments in fights where... Don't you feel like you're in a zone sometimes and it just... Everything's flowing?

    10. LE

      Saturday night.

    11. JR

      Saturday night, yeah.

    12. LE

      Saturday night, I'm like, I felt good. All backstage 'cause, um, leading up to the fight everyone's like, "Ring rust, ring rust." So I was kinda waiting for some feeling to say, "Where's ring rust?" Right? But I felt great backstage and I preferred fighting with, with no crowd.

    13. JR

      Did you really?

    14. LE

      Yeah. I, I... 'Cause y- you get, you get to the, to the apex and it's like you get there, you wrap your hands, you warm up, you fight. There's no hanging around for five hours backstage and just... It's like a gym, right? You just... You get there, you warm, then you just go compete, so I, I preferred it for sure.

    15. JR

      Did you prefer it because of the- there's no noise, no distractions, no nothing?

    16. LE

      And you can hear your coaches clearly.

    17. JR

      Oh, yeah.

    18. LE

      Yeah?

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. LE

      Instructions clearly and-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. LE

      I'm, I'm, I'm a very good listener to my coaches, so I wouldn't say I prefer it, but it was... I, it was good. I enjoyed it.

  2. 1:32 – 5:03

    The Belal Muhammad no-contest: what happened with the eye injury

    1. JR

      You have been in a very interesting position over the last few years where you are one of the top UFC welterler- uh, welterweights. But just be- be- because of bad fortune, just things just haven't totally lined up correctly.

    2. LE

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      Fights have fallen apart, injuries and sicknesses and a bunch of shit went down and you're... Until Saturday night you, you had been kind of ignored by a lot of fans.

    4. LE

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Like, a lot of people don't understand what level you're at. They don't understand. I think they saw it for the brief moment-

    6. LE

      That happened.

    7. JR

      ... that you fought Saturday night, but then unfortunately there's the injury. You know?

    8. NA

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      Belal has the accidental eye poke and it's another, you know, another unfortunate situation. But at least during that l-

    10. LE

      First round?

    11. JR

      Yeah, the first round, they got to see your skill level.

    12. LE

      Yeah, for sure. And I was just getting warmed up as well. I got... Over the last year and a half I've learned so much that I, I wanted to show and to have that, that incident happen, it's like... It's one in a million, right? When you, when you prepare, when you camp, you're like, "I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that." And then when that happened I was like... I thought... I thought it was like, "Okay, take five minutes. Let it, let it, let it, let it play out a little bit and then hopefully you can fight again." But he just... He's always that bad

    13. NA

      His eyes were so fucked.

    14. JR

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    15. LE

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      And now, was it... It was a not quite... It wasn't a poke.

    17. LE

      No, it wasn't a poke. It wasn't. Yeah.

    18. JR

      It was like a knuckle. Like this.

    19. LE

      If, if, if you could see the picture, it's like... You're, you're a kicker, right? So when-

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. LE

      Wh- wh- when you're kicking you don't hold, you don't hold your fist and kick like this, right? You kinda use it to... Momentum to s-

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. LE

      ... swing your arm back. And as I was doing it, it kinda just, like, grazed his eyes. Well, not grazed. It kind of went deep, but it grazed his eyes a bit and then-

    24. JR

      But was it, like, the front knuckles?

    25. LE

      It looked like it from the pictures. Like, I c-

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. LE

      I couldn't tell. I didn't feel it. I thought it was the, the, the kick that got him in his body and he, and then he fell down-

    28. JR

      Oh.

    29. LE

      ... at the start, you know? Then when he started grabbing his eyes, I was like, "Oh, shit. I got, I got... (laughs) I caught him in his eye." You know?

    30. JR

      Right.

  3. 5:03 – 7:57

    Title-shot debate vs rematch: confidence, fairness, and rankings

    1. LE

      When he caught me with a head kick in the first round and I kind of rush, rushed my work a little bit. I kind of went wild and started swinging, swinging for him, but I should have picked my shots a little bit better, but... He's tough, he's durable, but he doesn't beat me in, in a, in a given day, you know? I, I, I believe if we fight 10 times I'll, I'll beat him 10 times and that's just it. He was, he was, uh, a late step in for... Hamzat fell out and I think he should go back, work his way back up, and then hopefully we can meet somewhere down the line. But for now I'm looking towards a title shot. I'm looking towards being a world champion.

    2. JR

      Do you think that, uh, the title shot is warranted just because of your previous work and just because of the great first round that you had? But, I mean, do you feel like there's any unfinished business because of the way that fight ended?

    3. LE

      With Belal?

    4. JR

      Y- yeah, with Belal.

    5. LE

      Um, I don't believe so. I think, uh, from the first round... I'm normally... I'm, I'm a slow starter, right? So if that's my s- (laughs) uh... If, if that's my first round, you're not making it to the, to the fifth, you know? So, um-I think everyone saw where the fight was going and it wouldn't have made it to- attention to number five, so w- we- yeah.

    6. JR

      I understand your confidence, I really do. And this is not to demean that at all.

    7. LE

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      But you gotta- you gotta give the guy an opportunity, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like if-

    9. LE

      Uh-huh.

    10. JR

      ... if- if- here's my point. If the fight went the first round, if the eye poke didn't happen-

    11. LE

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      ... the referee just stopped the fight, everybody would be like-

    13. LE

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      ... "What are you doing? Well, you know where this fight is going." Well, you don't know where a fight is going 'cause fights are crazy. Like weird shit happens. People slip, guy gets them in a choke, like weird stuff happens.

    15. LE

      No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    16. JR

      You know, people get injured, you know, someone throws a calf kick, all of a sudden your leg goes numb.

    17. LE

      Like bam. (laughs)

    18. JR

      You get hit with a punch. Weird shit happens. You... Fights are crazy, you know that?

    19. LE

      No, it's- it's crazy but, um...

    20. JR

      You know what I'm saying though? I know your confidence.

    21. LE

      No, no, no. I know what you're saying but I would have- (laughs) I would- I would've won that fight clearly. Joe, normally-

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. LE

      ... normally I'm- I'm a slow starter in the first round, right?

    24. JR

      I know, yeah.

    25. LE

      Like, so I would've... I felt great Saturday night and even I'm a... I felt good, but I know he's not beating me.

    26. JR

      I-

    27. LE

      You know, and, um...

    28. JR

      ... and completely appreciate your confidence, but as a fan of you-

    29. LE

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      ... and as a fan of Belal-

  4. 7:57 – 11:35

    Khamzat matchup, late changes, and the economics of hype

    1. JR

      Yeah, you've had all these weird situations where things fell apart. It's, uh, it's very unfortunate and, uh, did you feel like the Khamzat fight was strange too? Because, like, here's this guy who's only had a few fights in the UFC.

    2. LE

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      He's got a lot of hype behind him 'cause he's had, like, the Mirshah fight was a great result.

    4. LE

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      He looked fantastic, but then all of a sudden he's fighting you.

    6. LE

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      Like...

    8. LE

      It- it was weird, right? 'Cause we... Well, two weeks before that, Dana White came out and he's like, "Oh, no, I'm never gonna fight Leon, or no one in top five." (laughs) Then next week he's like, "Leon, you wanna fight?" I was like, "You just said I- you... I'm too high ranked for him." But, um...

    9. JR

      Where do you think that came from?

    10. LE

      I don't know. I don't... I feel every- everyone was turning him down, you know, and-

    11. JR

      Oh.

    12. LE

      ... um, no one... everyone was turning me down as well, so Dana was like, "Okay, you want to fight him?" I was like, "Okay, let... What- what about Colby?" He's like... Colby said no. "What about Masvidal?" Masvidal said no. "What about Wonderboy?" Wonderboy's injured. So I was like, "Okay, who's got the most hype in the division now, um, that I could, like, piggyback off to get to a to- world title shot, right?" And this was a kid. Dana White built him up as this- this kid that can't be beaten, he's tough and... So I was like, "Okay, I'll go out there, I'll- I'll- I'll fight him. And when- when I beat him, I'll fight for the world title." And that- that was my plan, right? To use, um, this hype they're building around him to get me to a world title shot 'cause I'm a... I'm always looking towards the title shot, right? So anyway I can get there easier-

    13. JR

      Right, of course.

    14. LE

      ... um, I will then use Khamzat to- to get there.

    15. JR

      Isn't it weird how hype comes along sometimes? Like some guys just get-

    16. LE

      Random.

    17. JR

      ... they just get washed up in hype and they're just flying down the river. Like, what's going on?

    18. LE

      I know, like... (laughs) I've been in promotion for so long. I had like a eight-second knockout and everything.

    19. JR

      Yes.

    20. LE

      I did- I did exactly what he did, but like you said, right, just random, just comes from nowhere and...

    21. JR

      Well, it's like-

    22. LE

      ... yeah.

    23. JR

      ... sometimes it's justified.

    24. LE

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      Like remember when, uh, Joaquin Buckley, uh, when he landed on, um... What... How do you say his da... How do... How the fu... He's got a... The- the gentleman he kicked with that wild kick.

    26. LE

      Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    27. JR

      How do you say his last name?

    28. LE

      Uh...

    29. JR

      Um...

    30. LE

      It was a good- that was a good kick.

  5. 11:35 – 15:28

    Camps without fights: mindset shift from “win” to “hurt them”

    1. JR

      What has it been like going through this- this lull where you- you couldn't get a fight?

    2. LE

      Um, a lot of ups and downs, obviously you got, um... Especially, this- this was my fourth camp before I fought Belal, um, caught in the Woodley camp, so it was- it was lots of ups and downs, but I- I- I used that time off to- to grow, right? I kind of changed my men- my mentality, like instead sitting around and bitching and complaining about how no one- no one would want to fight me, use it as, like, a blessing, um...... use it to improve your skill set, use it to improve your mindset and that's, that's what I did in the last year, year and a half. You know, I used it to approach the game different. If you control, if you c- I can control what I can control, which is all I have to do is turn up to training, that's it, right? I can't control Masvidal or Kobe not fighting me, but I can control training and that's, that's what I did. I controlled what I could control and turned up to the gym, working hard, dedicating myself, staying disciplined because I know one day I'm, I'm, I'm gonna fight, right? So, instead of sitting around and complaining and not growing, not learning, w- maybe I was use it, I used it into my favor. It's, it's a blessing and I have grown leaps and leaps since my last fight when I fought RDA and, uh, it was... I feel good. I feel good. (laughs)

    3. JR

      Now, when you say improve your mindset, like, what do you mean by that?

    4. LE

      Just the way I look at the game, you know. Um, as before, I was kind of fighting to win not, not, not to hurt them, you know, and I'm fighting now to hurt them. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna be a world champion. I feel like winning is enough now, (laughs) you know, because I'm, I'm on an eight-fight win streak. That's the third most in the division history. Um, it's GSP one, I think, or no, K- Kamaru's one, I think, GSP and then me. So now I'm fighting to, to hurt them and to cement my, my, my name in the division and that's my mindset now. I'm not fighting to win no more. I've won enough of... I know I can beat them, you know, and the more I win, the more confidence I get, and the more... The more I compete against these guys, the more I know I can be a world champion. You know, it's... Coming from the UK, they all told... Ev- everyone tells you that, "Ah, he's from the UK, you can't wrestle, you can't do this, you can't do that," and I'm proving it fight, fight by fight and I'm gonna achieve being world champion coming from the UK and it's gonna be, it's gonna mean so much for the kids coming under me. That's my motivation to, to be a world champion.

    5. JR

      So this was, like, a conscious decision. D- do you remember making it? Do you remember deciding, like, "I'm gonna stop trying to just win fights."

    6. LE

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      "I'm, I'm gonna decide to hurt people."

    8. LE

      Yeah. Yeah. I thought... It weren't, like, a day, but I was made up my mind just over the last year or so, year and a half, my, my mind just changing that you, you, you got everything to be a, to, to, to do this. Why, why you... I, I don't know what it was. It was kind of just fighting just to... (sighs) It's like... I don't know. You're kinda fighting just to, like, win, right? I think with the m- the money as well. Like, in USA, it's like if you lose you just get half of your pay. But now, like, Saturday night, it was like a flat fee, right? So it's win, lose or draw, I get, I get the same money, so... And I still went out there and performed the best of my abilities. So they should probably change that as well, but, um... Yeah, I, I think the mindset changed over time, it weren't, like, just one, one day. It was, like, over the last year or so my mind frame changed.

    9. JR

      Do you ever work with a mental coach or anything like that?

    10. LE

      No, no.

    11. JR

      Never?

    12. LE

      No, I don't believe in-

    13. JR

      Really?

    14. LE

      Not, no, don't believe in it 'cause I, I got, I got teammates that do it, you know, and work with, um, coaches, but I feel my life experiences helped me, um, in, in the position I'm in.

    15. JR

      What, what specific life experiences?

    16. LE

      Um, just coming from where I came from, you know, um, a lot of ups and downs as I came from some... H- u- ups and downs is, like, the norm to me, right? I, I, I, I, I look forward to, to, to facing ad- adversities. When I do face it, I know I can get through it and so that, that, that's what it is, really. I look forward to adversities, so I know 'cause I've been, I've been here before (laughs) , I've been doing this since I was a kid, you know, so, um, it's... I, I, I look forward to it.

  6. 15:28 – 19:18

    Starting MMA at 17 and the evolution of techniques in modern MMA

    1. JR

      When did you get started in martial arts? How old were you?

    2. LE

      17.

    3. JR

      17?

    4. LE

      Yeah, yeah. Like, straight into, into, um, MMA. I didn't start late.

    5. JR

      Oh, really?

    6. LE

      Yeah, I didn't do nothing before. I was, like, hanging around on the, on the street with your friends and getting into martial arts, so.

    7. JR

      That's interesting 'cause when you watch you kick, you would swear that you had, like, a traditional martial arts background.

    8. LE

      Yeah, I did, I did. Everyone said that (laughs) , everyone said that, so I had my gym, but I did nothing at all before. I went straight from, um, hanging around on the street with my friends to one day a gym was getting built, um, in my area. My mom said try it out, I tried it out and I was... stuck to it.

    9. JR

      Wow.

    10. LE

      And fell in love with it and... I fell in love with the striking first, um, even though I was doing all of it, but the striking just caught my attention and then, um, then the grappling came later.

    11. JR

      It's so interesting now that you're seeing, like, a whole crop of kids that are evolving that came straight-

    12. LE

      Straight.

    13. JR

      ... into MMA, nothing else.

    14. LE

      Yeah. I can-

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. LE

      I can imagine, like, another, like, 20 years 'cause my son now, he's, he's doing martial arts, he does kickboxing and, um, jiu-jitsu, so I can't imagine, like, their generation, what they're gonna be like, right? 'Cause-

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. LE

      ... every, every fight, every year there's, like, a new technique that's coming out and, like that, that calf kick? That's, like, a new technique what lasts, what? Couple years-

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. LE

      ... they've, they've been using it?

    21. JR

      Four or five years, yeah.

    22. LE

      Yeah, exactly. So I'm looking forward to see how far MMA goes and what, what's the next things that's, that's gonna come.

    23. JR

      Did the calf kick... Did, like, did that surprise you, like, the popularity of it?

    24. LE

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      How quickly it became, like, an-

    26. LE

      (sighs)

    27. JR

      ... so, such an important technique 'cause you land a few of them, just three or four of them and then the-

    28. LE

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      ... guy's fucked.

    30. LE

      I, I first had it when, um, I went to AKA and, um, Luke Rockhold did it to me. This was like five years ago. Um, and he, he kicked my calf in, in... when I was sparring but I didn't feel it when I was sparring. After the, after the spar my whole legs was dead for like a week, you know, so I thought, "Well, that's, that's a good kick." But I got, like, skinny shins (laughs) , I'm, like, scared to, like, break my legs.

  7. 19:18 – 22:39

    Anderson Silva admiration and striking details: eyes, feints, and front kicks

    1. LE

      Anderson in, in his prime is like... My favorite-

    2. JR

      People forget.

    3. LE

      My favorite fighter, man. To this day, he's, I think he's the GOAT, you know, from how easy he made it look.

    4. JR

      People forget because of the, the, the end of his career.

    5. LE

      Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    6. JR

      Some... If you just stop looking at the end of cr- his career and go back and watch, like, the Dan Henderson fight. Dana White sent me the Dan Henderson fight the other day. He goes, "Watch this fight again."

    7. LE

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      He goes, "He fucking throws Dan Henderson around."

    9. LE

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Who d- who throws Dan Henderson around like this?

    11. LE

      The GOAT. (exhales) The GOAT.

    12. JR

      When he was-

    13. LE

      Niles Goodman.

    14. JR

      When he was in his prime. When he was one of the-

    15. LE

      I remember watching when I was, I was like 18 years old and watching Silva perform, you know, and, uh, it was Stephan Bonnar he was like...

    16. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. LE

      He just knocked him out with a jab. I was like, "Oh, God." And I...

    18. JR

      That was Forrest Griffin.

    19. LE

      Forrest Griffin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    20. JR

      It was crazy. Yeah.

    21. LE

      He was... He's good. He's good.

    22. JR

      Well, he was just, uh... His timing and his precision was just so amazing. Like when he front kicked Vitor in the face. Oh, my God. Damn.

    23. LE

      I've been trying to learn, I've been trying to learn that kick now for (laughs) ... In sparring for, like, years. I just can't get the timing of it. 'Cause you always go, like, straight up and you just, like, skim the lip or something, but you've got to get it, get it, like, under the chin, right? To like, to knock them out.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. LE

      But, it's a good technique to use. I, I think you... To land it as well, if you look them in, in the eye and then get, get, get them staring at you, then you go bang, th- then you land it right. But if you're looking in the chest when you're sparring, b- w- what's that I do? You look in the chest, they look at me in the eye. Then you freeze them a little bit, then you go bang. You know? And that's how I caught Belal on Saturday with a head kick. I looked him in his eye. H- he looked at me, then I dipped, then he followed, he followed my eyes and then I k- kicked him in his head. (laughs)

    26. JR

      Um, I think Anderson looked down. I think he did one of those where he looked down, then he kicked up.

    27. LE

      Boom.

    28. JR

      I think that's what he did to Vitor. I'm pretty sure.

    29. LE

      Did he?

    30. JR

      Yeah, I think so. See if you can find that. The, uh, Anderson Silva KO Vitor Belfort fight.

  8. 22:39 – 25:14

    TRT era, USADA shift, and what ‘prime’ means in MMA

    1. LE

      What, what age do you think prime is in MMA would you say?

    2. JR

      I think it depends on how you train. I think it depends on y- the amount of damage your body's taken, whether or not you've had-

    3. LE

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      ... serious injuries. Back injuries seem to fuck people up more than anything 'cause knee injuries are bad, but-

    5. LE

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      ... you can recover from them.

    7. LE

      Calm down from it.

    8. JR

      At least un- unless it's bad meniscus tears. Ligaments seem to be, you can recover from them, but it depends. For, I think for most fighters, it's in the 30s. It's like 30-

    9. LE

      2:33.

    10. JR

      ... to 34, 35.

    11. LE

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      That seems to be the prime. And if you're natural, that's when the wheels fall off. Right around 37, 38 it's-

    13. LE

      It's TRT. (laughs)

    14. JR

      Yeah. Yeah, that's when you go to ONE FC and-

    15. LE

      ONE FC and Benidorm. (laughs)

    16. JR

      (laughs) For real, right?

    17. LE

      Nah, for real.

    18. JR

      Yes.

    19. LE

      Juiced up and ready to go.

    20. JR

      Listen, man.

    21. LE

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      We're, we're just telling the truth.

    23. LE

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      We're just telling the truth.

    25. LE

      Nah, yeah. I think, I think the prime in MMA, um, yeah, about 30 to 35.

    26. JR

      When they were doing TRT though, didn't you think it was kind of crazy? Like when, when you saw Vitor, like when Vitof, when Vitor fought Rockhold, when Vitor fought Bisping, and he just had muscles coming out of his teeth.

    27. LE

      Yeah. Another, another level. Like the Brazilians at one point, like, owned MMA, right?

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. LE

      Then once USADA came in, all fell off.

    30. JR

      Mm.

  9. 25:14 – 30:33

    Welterweight politics: Masvidal, Colby, matchmaking, and attention economics

    1. JR

      Were you surprised that they decided to have, uh, Usman and, uh, Masvidal too?

    2. LE

      Um, surprised, no, 'cause I know, like you said, it's about money, right? Put- put- putting asses in the seat, and, um, I think if they fight 10 out of 10 times, I think Usman would probably win nine, probably. Um, it's a good, entertaining fight for the fans, but martial artists is, uh, yeah, one of them fights, right? It's like, Usman's gonna go out there, he's gonna probably grapple him again, probably. Um...

    3. JR

      I wanna see what- what Masvidal can do with a camp, you know? 'Cause-

    4. LE

      Um...

    5. JR

      ... clearly he wasn't prepared, physically, you know what I mean?

    6. LE

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      You just take a fight on six days notice, there's no way you can really be prepared.

    8. LE

      Nah, he was training. He was, he, he had like wrestling coaches, like, I remember watching him just, um, he was- he was like getting good- good- good training in, you know? He weren't, like, sitting on- on the couch for the last s- like six months, didn't take six days and- and- and full...

    9. JR

      Right, but you know as well as I know-

    10. LE

      Nah, I know.

    11. JR

      ... there's a difference between just training-

    12. LE

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    13. JR

      ... and then preparing for a fight, right?

    14. LE

      Yeah, yeah. Um, what, you think he beats him?

    15. JR

      No, I'm not saying that.

    16. LE

      Oh, okay, okay.

    17. JR

      But- but I, what I am saying is there were some very interesting moments in that fight where he was out-striking him.

    18. LE

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      But, you know, Kamaru was just so strong. He's such a good wrestler.

    20. LE

      Nah, yeah. And he's durable. And I think he dropped him, um, Bareld dropped him the other day, so, um, it'd be a- it'd be a good fight. I'll be watching it for sure, you know. But, um, I think if I had to put money on it, I'd probably go, um, Usman for the- for the win again.

    21. JR

      Well, once he, you know, I mean, once a guy beats a guy, he's always gonna be the favorite to fight again. But it's just, it's just, uh, it's an interesting fight. I- I just, I'm very, I'm ex- I'm excited to see how Masvidal performs-

    22. LE

      With the camp?

    23. JR

      ... with the camp.

    24. LE

      Nah, it'll be good. It'll be good. I'd- I'd love to see it as well, but I can't see what he could do different, you know. He's gonna come out again, be what he, what he does, he's gonna swing, (laughs) swing- swing for the fences and try to knock him out. Usman's gonna, um, high guard and just grapple him, and I just can't see what he does different. Unless he catches him and knock him out, just can't see, um, what he does different.

    25. JR

      When, uh, you and Masvidal got at it at that post-fight press conference-

    26. LE

      In London?

    27. JR

      ... like, did you expect that a fight was gonna come after that, that you would eventually...

    28. LE

      Um, yeah, for sure. I thought, okay, next, that's- that's- that's the next fight, right, straight away-

    29. JR

      Right.

    30. LE

      ... and to have it like now, it's what, two years, two, two and a half years? It's like, Usman ain't fought yet. I've been calling him out ever since-

  10. 30:33 – 34:51

    Leon’s self-directed camp design: no head coach, opponent habits, and game-planning

    1. JR

      When you put, when you put together a camp, like say if you get a Colby fight...

    2. LE

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      And do... Who designs your camp? Do you design everything yourself in terms of like when you do strength and conditioning, when you run, when you spar, when you hit mitts?

    4. LE

      Um-Yeah. I, I, I don't got a head coach. Uh, ain't like-

    5. JR

      Really?

    6. LE

      Nah. I ain't got like one coach that I said, "This is my head coach." Right? I got like coaches for diff- different martial arts and they all come together and, um, all, I put them all, all together and they communicate like that. But I don't got like one person that say, "Okay, you have to do this. You have to do that. You have to do that." I prefer it that way as well, because I feel with, with head coaches, um, from my experience, it's like you do it my way or no way. You know what I mean? You can't train 10 guys the same way.

    7. JR

      Right.

    8. LE

      I think that's what coaches do. Like, well, if you've got one person, you train them all the same way. But I might be different. I'm tall and southpaw. He might be short and orthodox. You can't train me the same way you train him, you know? So, um, that's, that's what, that's what I do, and I feel comfortable. I feel, I feel good doing it that way, so each to their own. I don't think nothing's wrong with it, just for me, I prefer, um ... Obviously I talk back and forth with my coaches and, um, we run game plans together, you know what I mean? So if I don't agree with it ... 'Cause l- let's say they come- my coach, my striking coach come to me, be like, "Okay, for this fight you need to throw a head kick." I be like, "Yeah, but I don't want to throw a head kick this fight 'cause I don't think it's gonna work f- for this guy." You know? And, um, if I watch him and see what he does, so this ... That's, that's what I do, right? I watch a person and I break 'em down and say, "Okay, ev- everyone got habits, right, that they do?" Um, some people like to pass to the left. Some p- people like to pass to the right. So if you can, if he's good at passing to his left, if you can make him pass to his right, where it's not good, then you're gonna have more success. And that's what I try to do basically in, all over the game. So, if he's good at jabbing, um, if you take away the jab just by moving, um, out the way of it, then he has to throw something else, which is not natural to him. And that's the way I approach the game, really, is just try to, try to throw them off for what they're, what they're good at, but take it away from them and then let them use what they're bad at.

    9. JR

      And so, if you put together a camp, so you basically just have all these people that you work with. You work with the wrestling coach-

    10. LE

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... jiu-jitsu coach, striking coach-

    12. LE

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... and then just you decide how the, how the fight's gonna play out based on how ... You're watching tapes. You're watching things.

    14. LE

      Yeah, yeah. I watch, I watch tapes. No, th- they send information as well, you know. I'm not, not just like mastering it all myself.

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. LE

      They send like, "Okay, this is what he does." And then I'll look. I'll be like, "Okay, what would you do to, to counteract that?" And if they tell me, they tell me, I'll be like, "Okay." If it feels good to me, then I'll do it. But if it doesn't, if it's not natural. I think it has to be a natural movement, right? If you're kind of like forcing yourself to, um ... Like f- for example, this fight with Belal, my coach was like, "Okay, you need to throw the uppercut, the back uppercut 'cause y- he dips into it." But in sparring, I wasn't fu- sorry, or we're in, uh-

    17. JR

      You can swear.

    18. LE

      Oh, I can swear?

    19. JR

      Yeah. It's the internet.

    20. LE

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      Fuck yeah.

    22. LE

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      Um, for, f-

    24. LE

      That's hilarious. (laughs)

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. LE

      Um, yeah. But in sparring I was trying to, tried to do what he, what he told me to do, but every time I was throwing an uppercut the guy was catching me, um, over the top with a, with a, with a hook. You know? I was like, this doesn't, this didn't come natural to me. So I does, as I said to my dog, don't use that technique (laughs) for, for this fight, 'cause every time I'm trying it in sparring I'm getting caught with shots and, um-

    27. JR

      In boxing that's what happens, right?

    28. LE

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      A lot of times when guys throw lead uppercuts.

    30. LE

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  11. 34:51 – 40:16

    Sparring philosophy and training cultures: Thais, Russians, and “feeling punches”

    1. JR

      How do you approach sparring? Do you think that you should like ... You see like Max Holloway-

    2. LE

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      ... like his last fight didn't spar at all and looked fucking amazing, like one of his best performances-

    4. LE

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      ... against Calvin Katter.

    6. LE

      Um, I got a teammate that does it as well, Tom Breese.

    7. JR

      Yeah?

    8. LE

      He, he, he's the same way. He's, he-

    9. JR

      Breese doesn't spar?

    10. LE

      No.

    11. JR

      Really?

    12. LE

      He doesn't. Yeah. His last two, three fights he's, he's, he's ... Say he d- he d- he doesn't want to do it. Um-

    13. JR

      That's interesting.

    14. LE

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I think each, each to their own, right? Um-

    15. JR

      How does he do it? Does he do drills where he just ... Like, simulations of-

    16. LE

      Yeah. He'll, he'll like-

    17. JR

      ... situations?

    18. LE

      Yeah. He like situations or like play, play spar, you know.

    19. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    20. LE

      Um, just like range find his shots really. He's not really getting't like hit properly, so. Um, for me, I, I prefer sparring. I spar twice a week, um, in camp.

    21. JR

      Do you play, do you play spar? Like do you, do you touch light or do you blast? Like do you-

    22. LE

      Um-

    23. JR

      ... do you have like full, full power-

    24. LE

      So-

    25. JR

      ... sparring sessions?

    26. LE

      So one ... In camp? So one, one, one spar a week will be big gloves, which is you can hit hard, you can go harder in big gloves. And then, um, on the Saturday it's little gloves, which is the, the bumper gloves, and that's more like play spar that normally end up in like a grappling match 'cause it's small gloves you're always ... It's hard to pull your shots right in small-

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. LE

      ... gloves. So, um, yeah. So it's like one hard on the Wednesday, then Saturday is more like a technical working through your techniques spar.

    29. JR

      Yeah, because it's so interesting how the Thais do it, 'cause they fight so often that when-

    30. LE

      Yeah.

  12. 40:16 – 56:21

    Life off the mat: camaraderie, COVID experience, and recovery tech (plus ring injuries)

    1. JR

      That, uh, l- uh, shit talking and things like-

    2. LE

      Can I have a coffee?

    3. JR

      Yeah, sure, brother, yeah.

    4. LE

      Thank you, sorry.

    5. JR

      If you want another one of those monsters, we got those too in the back.

    6. LE

      All right, perfect.

    7. JR

      Um, cheers.

    8. LE

      Cheers. (glasses clinking) Good man.

    9. JR

      I need some of this coffee after last night.

    10. LE

      (laughs) It was a good night?

    11. JR

      It was a lot of fun hanging out afterwards too. Chappelle and those fellas, they go hard like that every night. (laughs)

    12. LE

      Do they?

    13. JR

      They go every night. (laughs)

    14. LE

      Oh, I was done after, like, two o'clock. It was like, "I got, I got to go. I got (laughs) to-"

    15. JR

      Dave's got a philosophy behind it, though. It's actually well thought out. Like, he's like, the hang is important. He's like, "It's not just about doing shows." He's like, "The hang-"

    16. LE

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    17. JR

      "... actually makes you funnier and we talk about comedy during the hang, you know." It's always talking about jokes and talking about-

    18. LE

      That's what I said to my coaches, um, this week, 'cause I was sitting down, I was like, "Okay, this is, this is like the, this is what we're gonna remember, right? The hanging around in, in, in the hotel." We don't really remember the fights when you're old. You just rem- You remember when you win or you lost, right? But what, what you remember is like the, the banter that you had with the coaches and-

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. LE

      That's, that's what I was telling my coaches last week, that we treasure these, these moments, you know? This is what we work for and just enjoy it and-

    21. JR

      Camaraderie, yeah.

    22. LE

      Yeah, man, the cama- Yeah, that, that, that's what it's all about.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. LE

      That's what you're gonna remember when you're old.

    25. JR

      Well, there's a similarity in the way fighters and comedians hang out with, is that y- not too many people understand you guys like you.

    26. LE

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      You know? Like, fighters and your, your coaches and your training partners and the people you work with, they know you.

    28. LE

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      They really... Regular people would never understand the amount of sacrifice and commitment and what it's like to go through hard sparring sessions, what it's like to go through hard strength and conditioning se-... Like, that, that you're always pushing yourself.

    30. LE

      Yeah.

  13. 56:21 – 1:49:35

    Fight-week routine, staying normal, and upcoming UFC matchups

    1. JR

      Did you go through a bunch of different processes to get to where you're at now where you know exactly what to do, like, the week of the fight, you know, you know what's best for your mind, you know what's best-

    2. LE

      Yeah. I-

    3. JR

      Do you tr- would you try to distract yourself? What do you try to do?

    4. LE

      I try, fight week I try trea- uh, treat it like another week, right? 'Cause I think if you build it up to be something that it's not re- that's normally what happens, right? 'Cause you sit in your room, you're kinda, like, overthinking the fight, what's gonna happen, and it never does. And the, the more I compete, the more I fight, I think, you just think crazy shit (laughs) in your head, what's gonna happen in the fight, and it never plays out that way. So I learned to be like, you know what? Just treat it like another week, you know what I mean? Leave, eat what you normally eat, obviously you gotta cut weight, but on fight day I eat what, what I would eat on a sparring day. I was eating, like, normal, chicken, rice, fish, eat light, I don't really eat heavy on, on, um, sparring day. And, um, I like to go for walks, I go for, like, a long walk fight day with my team, just, like-

    5. JR

      On fight day?

    6. LE

      Yeah, yeah. I like, that's, I like to go for, like, a long walk just to, like, banter with my team, and just make it feel like a normal day. I don't want to build it up to be something that it's not, and it's n- 'cause I do this every single day, you know? And, um, if you do it that way I think you have better success than, than, like, just sitting in your room thinking, "Oh, it's gonna be a ..." It's like-

    7. JR

      Right.

    8. LE

      ... playing a match game in your head.

    9. JR

      Right. Um, when, when you say you go for a walk, like, do you find that that, like, relieves, uh, nervous energy? Like, why do you like to-

    10. LE

      Um, I don't know.

    11. JR

      ... to go for a walk?

    12. LE

      I just, I always enjoyed on fight day going for, like, a long walk. Uh, I don't, I don't, I don't know what it is. It's, um, I don't know, I don't know. Like, I can't put, like, a finger on it to say, "This is why I do it." You know? I just, I just like to go for a long walk, stretch my legs out, um, have a little banter with the team, just chill, t- treat it like another day, like, like I'm back at home in my gym and I'm on the way to the gym. Um, that's it. You know, it's not really ... I can't, I can't think why I do it, but that's what I like to do.

    13. JR

      You just always liked to do it?

    14. LE

      Yeah, I just always liked to do it.

    15. JR

      Do you meditate at all?

    16. LE

      No.

    17. JR

      Nothing?

    18. LE

      (laughs) No. Nah, nothing. Um, nah, nothing. I just, I, I don't know, my mental strength, I don't know, I don't know where I got it from, but I'm, like, mentally I'm, like, quite solid, right? But I think it's just from, like, my upbringing and the, my trials and tribulations that I've been through in life, and it's kind of just made me who I am, right? I know that I can get over struggle, I know I've been there before, I've done it before, I can get over it. And I think the more you struggle y- you get more armor, you're more solid, right? And I think that's what-

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. LE

      ... that's what it is, just build me up to be who I am.

    21. JR

      Yeah, it's, uh, there's an interesting mindset that comes from people that have been through really tough things in their life. You know, like, uh, I spoke with, uh, Francis Ngannou.

    22. LE

      Mm-hmm.

    23. JR

      And he was talking about his journey-

    24. LE

      I seen that, yeah. Yeah, it's fucking crazy.

    25. JR

      Fucking crazy.

    26. LE

      Mad.

    27. JR

      Like, you think about that guy, 14 months to get out of Cameroon and to get all the way to Spain only to spend two months in prison.

    28. LE

      And just throw, throwing his money and shit.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. LE

      That, I was like, "What?" (laughs)

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