JRE MMA Show #127 with Mikey Musumeci

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. MMMikey Musumeci0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) We're up? Well, what a journey, Mikey. We were supposed to be doing this. First of all, thank you to Redband for saving the day.

   3. MMMikey Musumeci0:20

      Hey. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      If it wasn't for you... (laughs) Once again. Yeah. We've b- yeah, you saved the day with Kanye, and you saved the day with Mikey Musumeci.

   5. MMMikey Musumeci0:28

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      So, Jamie got the cooties, ladies and gentlemen, again. Again. For the second time. He looks great. He doesn't seem like he's that sick. So, we're stuffing him full of IV vitamins out there. And, uh- Ah. So, you've had COVID how many times?

   7. MMMikey Musumeci0:41

      I think two or three times now.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:43

      Two or three? Did you get tested or you just-

   9. MMMikey Musumeci0:44

      I got tested two of them, so for sure two, but I think I had it three.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       The third time you think you had it?

   11. MMMikey Musumeci0:49

       Yeah. Delta was the worst one, though.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Did you get it bad?

   13. MMMikey Musumeci0:53

       I could barely walk from Delta.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Really? For how long?

   15. MMMikey Musumeci0:55

       Like, my lungs and ... like, a good month of, like, dying. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Really?

   17. MMMikey Musumeci1:00

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Wow. Well, you were probably training the whole time, weren't you?

   19. MMMikey Musumeci1:04

       I was training during the Omicron one-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Yeah.

   21. MMMikey Musumeci1:06

       ... but, uh, the Delta one, like, my muscles, I couldn't lift my arms and legs. Like, it got really bad.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Wow. That's crazy 'cause you're in really good shape and you're, you're young.

   23. MMMikey Musumeci1:16

       Yeah, I run six miles every morning, and I could barely walk a mile when I had it.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       Wow.

   25. MMMikey Musumeci1:21

       Yeah, it really-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       So, it got you hard.

   27. MMMikey Musumeci1:23

       ... it really messed me up. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       Did you, do you think you were getting it and then you kept working out and it got worse? Was it one of those deals?

   29. MMMikey Musumeci1:29

       I think so, but I think the residual effects of it from after being sick are what messed me up. Like, with the muscles-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       Mm-hmm.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. MMMikey Musumeci15:00

      art, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      Yeah.

   3. MMMikey Musumeci15:01

      So there's a form of creativity to it, and discovering things in the art.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:06

      It really is an art, and it's an art that is r- v- very much appreciated by people who practice the art. And it's kind of hard for people who don't practice the art-

   5. MMMikey Musumeci15:14

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      ... to appreciate it, 'cause they don't understand it. When I first started doing commentary for the UFC, one of the biggest challenges was explaining jujitsu in a digestible way. Like, when I would... When the fight would go to the ground, a lot of times people would boo or, like-

   7. MMMikey Musumeci15:29

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      ... they didn't know what was going on. And so it was my job to try to explain the progression. And like, "Okay, now he's gotta clear the right arm. Now he's in trouble." And then I would, like, talk people through right up until the submission, right up until the person taps. So they would go, "Oh, I see." So it made jujitsu more digestible to them, and more exciting, 'cause they... Instead of just, like, seeing a bunch of legs and arms all-

   9. MMMikey Musumeci15:55

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       ... tangled up, they got to see what the person was trying to accomplish.

   11. MMMikey Musumeci15:59

       Yeah. Like, um, even my friends that started jujitsu, they all start, they're like, "Oh, I wanna do UFC or MMA." And then they go to the gym, and they look at the jujitsu stuff, they're like, "No." And they'll do Muay Thai, right? And then they'll just keep seeing the jujitsu class, and then one day they'll try jujitsu one time, and then they switch to just jujitsu, no Muay Thai. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:20

       (laughs) Yeah, well, it's... It protects you, uh, from brain damage too. The, the, the thing about... The problem with Muay Thai and all those other things-

   13. MMMikey Musumeci16:26

       So much impact.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:27

       It's a lot of impact. Even if you're just sparring light, you're, you're still getting touched. You're still getting thumped in the head.

   15. MMMikey Musumeci16:33

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:33

       Do you have any desire at all to ever fight MMA?

   17. MMMikey Musumeci16:35

       So I did Muay Thai for seven years as a kid.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       Yeah?

   19. MMMikey Musumeci16:38

       So I love Muay Thai. I think it's awesome. Um, and I'm in Evolve right now, which has like the best Muay Thai program in the world. So I'm interested in it, you know, and maybe in the future if I keep learning... But again, brain damage sucks.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:53

       Yeah.

   21. MMMikey Musumeci16:54

       But if I could take minimal damage, I don't know.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       But the problem is, like, can you? Is it possible to take minimal... Now think about running into someone who's as good at striking as you are at jujitsu.

   23. MMMikey Musumeci17:05

       So you're gonna take a lotta damage. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:06

       Yeah, but you know what I'm saying? Like think about-

   25. MMMikey Musumeci17:08

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:08

       ... like how much you can control people. Like, I first saw you in Who's Number One. Uh, who was the bald guy? The one-

   27. MMMikey Musumeci17:15

       Marcelo Colin.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:16

       That's right, Marcelo Colin. And, uh, I made a bet, and I bet on you. It was me and Lex Fridman.

   29. MMMikey Musumeci17:22

       Oh, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:22

       Lex Fridman bet on Marcelo, I bet on you, and I won. Ha ha, Lex.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Right. …

   1. MMMikey Musumeci30:00

      what's interesting about running, I- and Airdyne, uh, what I've noticed is the first 10 to 15 minutes, you have that voice in your head that's like, "You're tired. Stop." Like, it fights you.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:12

      Right.

   3. MMMikey Musumeci30:12

      And you fighting that voice in your head, after 15 minutes, it gets quiet. Like, it goes away. So when you compete, that voice in your head is always there, so it gives you the skill of being able to shut it off when you're fighting-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:25

      Mm.

   5. MMMikey Musumeci30:26

      ... or competing, 'cause it's jiu jitsu. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:28

      Right. And so, like, when you run, you, are you running and having specific things on your mind? Like, are you trying to think about matches and think about competition or are you just trying to breathe and keep moving?

   7. MMMikey Musumeci30:41

      So, I think the biggest thing about jiu jitsu is control. Being able to control your opponent, but also yourself. So, I feel like mastery of controlling yourself is what I'm trying to do with running.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:53

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MMMikey Musumeci30:53

      And master your thoughts, master all the different variables that I have to deal with when I compete, you know? So I channel that when I'm running, like, as if I was competing.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:04

       And do you incorporate any weight lifting or anything else?

   11. MMMikey Musumeci31:07

       No.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:07

       Calisthenics? Nothing?

   13. MMMikey Musumeci31:08

       No. Because, um, I lifted weights a little bit when I was a kid, but as I got older and I got to black belt, I stopped doing that because all the people I'm fighting are so strong and I didn't wanna have to rely on strength with them or to overpower them, so I wanted to make my jiu jitsu where if I don't, it doesn't matter, the strength. It matters your body positioning.

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:29

       Right. And do you pl- I mean, you- you've moved around weight classes too, right?

   15. MMMikey Musumeci31:36

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:36

       Like, what do you we- what are you competing at now?

   17. MMMikey Musumeci31:39

       Right now, I'm competing at 135. Um, I fight 125 in the US, uh, because, uh, you're allowed to cut water. But in the ONE Championship, they test for hydration, so, uh, it's actually healthier, so 135 in ONE.

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:55

       And you, but you've gone up as high as, like, what? 155?

   19. MMMikey Musumeci31:58

       Um, I did open weight in 2020, 20 ... Yeah, 2020 at the EUROs. So I fought those big guys, and, um, it's fun fighting in the heavier division sometimes, just to, like, see, like, how, um ... Just, it desensitizes you to your division-

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:15

       Mm-hmm.

   21. MMMikey Musumeci32:15

       ... when you fight the monsters in the heavier divisions, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:17

       Right. Yeah.

   23. MMMikey Musumeci32:18

       So sometimes I'll do it just so then when I go back to my division, I feel like Superman from fighting those guys. (laughs) You know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:25

       Do you worry at all about injuries 'cause people are that big?

   25. MMMikey Musumeci32:28

       Yeah, totally. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:29

       That's the fucked up thing about training with big people.

   27. MMMikey Musumeci32:32

       That's why I don't train with big people anymore.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:34

       Yeah.

   29. MMMikey Musumeci32:35

       When I was younger, I was forced to train with only big people and I was always injured, my body was always messed up. But now that I'm training with little people, like my size, um, I, it's like z- zero impact. So I could train every day, and I could keep studying and learning jiu jitsu. And I think that's a huge reason why I can do such high volume.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:53

       Yeah, I think so too. I think when people get into, like, real high pressure, like, w- very intense training and you have a lot of people that are very heavy that you're training with-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Hmm. …

   1. MMMikey Musumeci45:00

      you know, um, I would always be cutting, like, five pounds, 10 pounds. Nothing crazy, but I've done crazy cuts also, so you just die from those also. But, um, all that time, it just messes up your brain where you never feel like you're satisfied.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:15

      Hmm.

   3. MMMikey Musumeci45:15

      And, uh, you never full, you know? So that part of your brain that says, "Oh, you're full, stop eating," I stopped having from cutting weight so much.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:24

      Right.

   5. MMMikey Musumeci45:25

      So what I started doing was intermittent fasting. Um, so I would just not eat during the day, 'cause honestly, I don't like eating before training. I feel bloated when I eat, so I would just eat at night. But I started just eating the foods I love. Um, I'm Italian, so I grew up just eating pizza and pasta.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:45

      Mm-hmm.

   7. MMMikey Musumeci45:45

      So I make pizza and pasta every night. I have a pizza oven in my house and I roll out the dough, make everything. (laughs) And then, uh, for dessert, I'll eat a pint of acai. And my weight would be lighter doing this diet than eating, like, no carbs and all of these things. So in my mind I was like, "Wait, I could eat all the foods I love if I eat once a day at night?" You know, so it was a no-brainer for me. And my weight is lighter and I feel better 'cause I am fasting, so I started doing it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:18

      Wow. So there's no issue with performance at all? That, I mean, given your blood sugars and everything like that, when you're training for extraordinary amounts of time during the day and not eating.

   9. MMMikey Musumeci46:30

      So how I see it is I have to earn the food at night. So training all day is like me working for the food at night, you know?

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:37

       Right.

   11. MMMikey Musumeci46:37

       Like how people used to hunt and gather for food.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:40

       Mm-hmm.

   13. MMMikey Musumeci46:40

       So, um, that's my mentality. Um, and my best performance in World, Gi Worlds was in December, um, I had my best performance ever, and it was on that diet. And I made 125 easy.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:53

       And so when you do, like, day of competition, same thing? You won't eat all day?

   15. MMMikey Musumeci46:57

       Day of competition, I'll change my diet and I'll eat a piece of bread and, like, a little honey. Just you need some food in your stomach to deal with the nerves and adrenaline.

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:07

       Oh, yeah?

   17. MMMikey Musumeci47:07

       That changes, for me at least.

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:09

       Yeah?

   19. MMMikey Musumeci47:09

       Um, so I'll-

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:10

       So bread and honey, huh?

   21. MMMikey Musumeci47:11

       Bread, honey, rice cakes. Just very mild, and some sugar. Uh, but nothing too heavy.

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:18

       And when you are getting... Where is your protein coming from? What, what, what do you put-

   23. MMMikey Musumeci47:22

       I eat a lot of cheese.

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:23

       Cheese?

   25. MMMikey Musumeci47:23

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:23

       Is that basically all your protein?

   27. MMMikey Musumeci47:25

       Basically. Um, I eat a lot of mozzarella, um-

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:28

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MMMikey Musumeci47:29

       ... a lot of Parmesan, a lot of, uh, Pecorino Romano.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:33

       Do you, uh, put any animal products in your pizza? Chicken or meat or anything like that?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Wow. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      the really hot sauna is it increases your red blood cell count and it has a mild effect that's akin to EPO.

   2. MMMikey Musumeci1:00:08

      Wow.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

      Yeah, so it increases your red blood cell count.

   4. MMMikey Musumeci1:00:11

      Probably also helps your nervous system recover.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      Yeah, it also helps you deal with stress, 'cause it sucks so hard. (laughs)

   6. MMMikey Musumeci1:00:19

      You get numb. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

      (laughs) Well, it's just you have the ability to just suffer. Like, your self-imposed suffering is so much more difficult than most of what the world will give you, because you literally can't survive it for very long.

   8. MMMikey Musumeci1:00:32

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

      Like, the temperatures that I go into, when I hit 20 degrees, or 20 minutes rather, at 185 degrees, I'm-... n- I don't have much left, you know? I'm really, like my, my physical being is in trouble. Like, it's, it gets to that point where I'm like, "Okay, maybe I can do another 15 minutes if I really wanted to show how tough I am." But when I get outta there at those 15 minutes, I'm gonna collapse.

   10. MMMikey Musumeci1:00:58

       Yeah. I've done so many water cuts with Epsom salt baths-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:01

       Mm-hmm.

   12. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:01

       ... where, like, you go in and you're screaming 'cause the water's burning your skin.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       Yeah.

   14. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:05

       So, it's like that also. But it's interesting that you said it gets rid of stress, because every time I do, like, an Epsom salt bath, I'll fight way better because the pain from the bath is way worse than the anxiety of fighting. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

       Well, the pain from the bath must be because of abrasions, right? From scratches-

   16. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:21

       Well-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

       ... from jiu-jitsu?

   18. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:22

       Y- Well, just the pain of, like, you're in such a hot water, right?

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:26

       Right.

   20. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:26

       And you're like, you feel like you're burning. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:29

       Yeah. I, I have a float tank. Have you ever done that?

   22. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:32

       No.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:32

       The sensory, sensory deprivation tank. The sensory deprivation tank is filled with 1,000 pounds of Epsom salts. It's, you float in it.

   24. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:39

       Oh.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       And-

   26. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:40

       Is that the one with the temperature that your body's the same temperature as the water?

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

       Yes.

   28. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:43

       Oh.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

       Yeah. I have it here.

   30. MMMikey Musumeci1:01:45

       That's so cool.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:15:14

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      side and the red on the other, the card.

   2. MMMikey Musumeci1:15:02

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:02

      And when the green is up, they give you all the food you want and they come by with chicken wings and, you know-

   4. MMMikey Musumeci1:15:08

      Amazing.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:08

      ... just different cuts of beef and lamb and, oh, it's fantastic. It's one of the best ways to eat.

Episode duration: 2:03:12