JRE MMA Show #140 with Gillian Robertson

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) How long can y- do you have to stop smoking weed before you'll test positive?

Gillian Robertson 0:17 Uh, usually about five days. Uh-

Joe Rogan 0:19 Five days before a fight?

Gillian Robertson 0:20 ... if you're smoking straight flower. But, uh, if you're smoking, like, oil, dabs, anything like that, then you need a little bit more time.

Joe Rogan 0:29 You got it down to a science?

Gillian Robertson 0:30 Uh, I figured it out when I tested positive-

Joe Rogan 0:33 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 0:35 ... one fight (laughs) 'cause I was smoking oil, and I stopped five days out.

Joe Rogan 0:38 Oh, smoking oil. Those wacky kids and their dabs and oil. (laughs)

Narrator 0:43 Because you guys go too far.

Gillian Robertson 0:45 (laughs)

Narrator 0:45 You guys go too far.

Gillian Robertson 0:46 There is a, there's way too many ways now, I feel like. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:49 (Exhales sharply) You go to dark places.

Gillian Robertson 0:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:52 You do dabs, you go to dark places. You go-

Gillian Robertson 0:53 Yeah, especially with dabs. And like that's the, the, like, next level extreme.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Yeah, I'm not interested in that. You just get too far gone. Like, you don't even know how to move your hands right. You just-

Gillian Robertson 1:03 Uh, there's this stuff that, that I have... I'm a medical patient in Florida, and there's stuff you can get from the, uh, dispensary. It's like literal nose drops, and that shit, like, makes you... Like, literally I feel like I can't form sentences.

Joe Rogan 1:16 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 1:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17 Is this a spray?

Gillian Robertson 1:18 Yeah, it's just like a nasal spray.

Joe Rogan 1:20 There, there are so many wacky people in Austin spraying ketamine up their nose.

Gillian Robertson 1:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:25 It is a real issue. We had a girl go into a K hole at our comedy club the other night.

Gillian Robertson 1:30 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:30 Yeah, and her boyfriend's like, "She just did a lot of ketamine," and it was like Jesus fucking Christ.

Gillian Robertson 1:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:35 Do that at home, you nut. They're doing ketamine and going to see comedy.

Narrator 1:39 Uh, yeah, from the moment I got here, it's been offered to me frequently, and I'm like, "What are you doing?"

Joe Rogan 1:42 What is going on? How's ketamine? Ketamine's a fucking tranquilizer, right?

Narrator 1:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48 It's a powerful psychedelic too, right?

Narrator 1:50 It's also available in clinics for people to defeat, like, you know, PTSD work and stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:53 (laughs) I feel like there's a lot of people that are doing it, like, every day though.

Narrator 1:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:57 Have you done it?

Gillian Robertson 1:58 No, no, I've never messed with anything like that.

Joe Rogan 1:59 I took a little of Duncan's. Duncan had one. I think he made it in his bathtub.

Narrator 2:03 What did it feel like? Do you remember?

Joe Rogan 2:05 Weird, but it was very little. "You just, just, just take one pump." So I took, like, one pump and I was like, "This is odd," but I know the source, and I know where he's getting it, and it's l- all medical grade and legit, but it's like err. What is that?

Gillian Robertson 2:20 Yeah, I don't know. I, I us- I like a lot of-

Joe Rogan 2:22 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 2:22 ... natural things better. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:23 THC nasal mist.

Narrator 2:25 You were right.

Joe Rogan 2:27 Well, um, yeah, I guess, the p- m- marijuana is the ultimate natural thing. I w- I was just saying that I, I had a, I hurt my back a little bit. It tweaked a muscle, and it w- locked up, and I put on this CBD MD Recover cream. I wa- it's a lot, I mean, that stuff is insanely good. It's incredible how much better I felt.

Gillian Robertson 2:45 No, that's crazy.

Joe Rogan 2:45 That's amazing that CBD has that kinda power.

Gillian Robertson 2:48 Yeah, I've never used, uh, uh, a topical cream like that, but, uh, I've used, like, pills and things like that with CBD, and I feel like it definitely does make a difference. Like, there's... I, I don't know. It's a huge difference.

Joe Rogan 2:58 Huge difference. My friend Dave Foley had, um, real bad arthritis in his hands, and he started taking CBD, and all of a sudden his hands started working fine. Like, it just took a while. It took, it just... Your, your body is filled with inflammation, and CBD is just an awesome way to get rid of inflammation.

Gillian Robertson 3:15 Yeah, especially as a fighter. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:17 Calm you down. Oh, yeah.

Gillian Robertson 3:17 It's like everything's inflamed constantly.

Joe Rogan 3:20 Who needs CBD more than fighters, right? And who needs marijuana more than fighters? Just to fucking chill the fuck out. Like, the stress that you go through on a regular basis is so bonkers if you really think about it. You're around, you know, all these other human beings that are going about their day, driving their cars, going to work. You're preparing to throw bones at girls. (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 3:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:42 You're preparing to strangle people. You put people to sleep for a living, you know? That is a wild thing to do, sister.

Gillian Robertson 3:50 Oh, yeah, it's like pre-fight when I'm sitting there and I'm feeling all my nerves, my boyfriend, he's told me, he's like, "You need to be thankful for this," because he's like, "Most people don't get to experience shit like this in their life. Most people don't get to, like, experience these kinds of feelings, like, these extreme feelings because they just have their regular jobs."

Joe Rogan 4:06 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 4:06 It's like what I'm doing is something crazy.

Joe Rogan 4:08 It's so crazy. It's so crazy. And when you do it in a place like when you... What, was it in, uh, London with Molly McCann? Was that London?

Gillian Robertson 4:16 Uh, it was actually Liverpool.

Joe Rogan 4:16 Liverpool.

Gillian Robertson 4:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:17 (Hooés out of breath) That was crazy. That was crazy. When you got her back and put her to sleep, I was like, "Oh, shit."

Gillian Robertson 4:26 Oh, yeah, that was pretty much... Uh, it was my first fight out of the tough house, you know?

Joe Rogan 4:30 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 4:30 So, uh, my UFC debut was technically against Emily Whitmire, but it was still, we were in the tough house. Like, we didn't have-

Joe Rogan 4:37 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 4:37 ... our, uh, like our actual fight kits, things like that.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Right.

Gillian Robertson 4:41 So Molly McCann, I feel like, was really the first fight where I was like, this is a real UFC fight for me. And my flight was delayed. Everything. She missed weight. I feel like everything went wrong that week. I got booed walking out, so it's like, I, I don't know, just to get that success after that, I feel like it was such a great thing for me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:01 How did they treat you when you got out?

Gillian Robertson 5:04 After I got out, honestly, everybody was great. Like, even Molly invited me to her after-party. Uh, my brother flew out there, so I ended up going out with him.

Joe Rogan 5:11 Oh, that's cool.

Gillian Robertson 5:12 And, uh, we were just walking around Liverpool and everybody coming up to me, uh, trying to get pictures. Like, the Liverpool fans were 100% supportive. It was great.

Joe Rogan 5:21 Well, that's cool.

Gillian Robertson 5:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Of course, they're gonna boo you.

Gillian Robertson 5:23 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:24 Just a girl.

Gillian Robertson 5:24 Oh, yeah, 100%. I expected every minute of it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:27 Plus, like, what a personality she has. Like, she's awesome.

Gillian Robertson 5:31 Oh, I absolutely love her. Probably out of all the girls I've fought in the UFC, Molly is definitely probably the top. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:38 She's character. She's, her and Patty together are fucking amazing. It's hilarious.

Gillian Robertson 5:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:42 There should be a reality show.

Gillian Robertson 5:43 She's absolutely, like, genuine sweetheart of a person, and like you said, a absolute character as well.

Joe Rogan 5:49 And she can fight.

Gillian Robertson 5:50 Yeah, 100%.

Joe Rogan 5:50 She can fight her ass off. Her standup is nasty. It's really... And she's so tough. She's so-

Gillian Robertson 5:55 I-... yeah, all girls, I feel like, from that area. They got that extra little-

Joe Rogan 5:59 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 5:59 ... toughness to them. And she definitely, uh, is superior in that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:04 Yeah, for her, it just feels like grappling came, like, a little later for her.

Gillian Robertson 6:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:08 And that, that can be a problem with someone of your caliber. You know, the thing about, like, grappling is, God, it takes so long to catch up. And while you're catching up, that person's still getting better. If they're training every day and they're, the, i- i- it's like when someone is at a, a super high grappling level, and if you're just getting into grappling now, like, you're just, you're just surviving. And it's a long time until you're doing anything other than surviving, unless you're some athletic freak, unless you're some just unbelievable specimen of a human that just learns quicker than everybody else. Most of the time, it's, like, really hard to catch up when you're a pure striker.

Gillian Robertson 6:46 Okay. There's just so much to learn in jiu-jitsu.

Joe Rogan 6:48 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 6:48 Even, like, I got my black belt, I think, two or three years ago now, and I feel like I still don't know anything. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:54 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 6:54 I feel like it's just, like, there's so much to learn, so many different w- styles, different things, like even, like, leg locks. I don't know a lot of, I don't know deep into that game. I know good defensively, but offensively, I feel like that's a completely different world. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:08 Mm-hmm. The leg lock game is crazy 'cause that just took over. It w- it was so amazing to watch, something that you used to get booed for. Like, if they went to tournaments-

Gillian Robertson 7:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:18 ... especially in Brazil, people would boo you. They did not like when you were doing stuff like that. I guess 'cause it really messes people up in training. Like, they had to know it was really effective, but they, too many people had to have ruined knees.

Gillian Robertson 7:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:30 And they just decided, like, "Hey, this is a bad idea." And it might be a bad idea in the gi.

Gillian Robertson 7:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:35 You know, in the gi, it's like, ooh, man, you can't get out of that very well. At least in no gi, there's, like, a little bit more maneuverability. When someone's, like, grabbing your legs, and they got your pants, and they're holding onto the cuff in here, it's like, ooh, that's tight for a leg lock.

Gillian Robertson 7:51 Oh, yeah. I'm-

Joe Rogan 7:51 That's scary.

Gillian Robertson 7:52 I'm almost more nervous competing no gi now than versus fighting MMA just because-

Joe Rogan 7:58 Yoi.

Gillian Robertson 7:58 ... no gi girls are so well versed in leg locks, and that shit's dangerous. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:03 Hmm. (laughs) Right.

Gillian Robertson 8:03 It's like that can put me out for six months, a year-

Joe Rogan 8:05 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 8:05 ... plus. Where it's like the worst thing I've ever had happen in a fight is I got 11 stitches in my nose. It's like besides that, uh, well, and even that I grappled a month later. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:15 Who was that woman, that heavily tattooed woman, uh, in you... You got her back too. What, she, she had a crazy nickname, like the Demon Slayer?

Gillian Robertson 8:26 Uh, oh, uh, um, Maria Ovpova.

Joe Rogan 8:29 Yes.

Gillian Robertson 8:29 Yes. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:29 What was her craz-... She, she has a wild nickname, right? Isn't it-

Gillian Robertson 8:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:32 ... something like that?

Gillian Robertson 8:32 Yeah, it's something like that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:35 Um, when you were fighting her, she hit you with a bunch of, like, really hard elbows while you were trying to get, take her down. And I, I was just amazed that you just stuck with the path. You just kept, you just ke-... You're like, "Uh-uh, I got you. I got you. I got... Uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh, you're not getting away with this. I'm gonna hang onto you, and I'm gonna drag you to the ground. I'm gonna get you." And when you finally did, I was like, "Damn, that was systematic."

Gillian Robertson 9:01 S-

Joe Rogan 9:01 But you, you, you endured, like, some hard shots.

Gillian Robertson 9:04 H- honestly, I, I don't think, like... I don't know. I didn't really have any, much damage off of those shots. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:09 Wow.

Gillian Robertson 9:09 So I didn't really feel a lot of those, and they weren't really, like... The only reason that I even thought about them is 'cause the ref was like, "You need to do something. I'm gonna stop this." And I was like, "Oh shit, I gotta change something up." Like...

Joe Rogan 9:22 Hmm.

Gillian Robertson 9:22 But I was initially going for a knee bar and, when she was just hitting me with elbows. And, uh, then I gave up on that because of the ref. Uh-

Joe Rogan 9:32 Isn't it interesting how subjective refereeing can be? In that there's some referees that are really good at letting people just fight out of stuff, and then there's some referees that like just getting hit, even with a few hammer fists, that aren't gonna stop you if you don't defend them. Some refs will just stop it right there. It's, it's completely subjective. Like, for that ref to tell you, that, like, you can't endure these shots, it's, it's... You don't, like, you don't have time, like, "Actually, they're not that hard."

Gillian Robertson 9:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:59 "It's a... It sounds bad, but it doesn't really hurt. I'm okay." Like, you, but you can't say that in the middle of a fight. So there's this weird, like, communication issue. Like, he, he sees you getting hit by... I saw you getting hit by those shots. I was like, "Jesus Christ." Like, "Can you see if you can find that? See if you can find that."

Gillian Robertson 10:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:15 'Cause in that, in that exchange, when you're trying to take her down, I'm like, "Jesus, those are some hard elbows." Travis Browne was the master of that.

Gillian Robertson 10:22 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:23 (sighs)

Gillian Robertson 10:24 I feel like no one had more power than him-

Joe Rogan 10:26 Oh, my God.

Gillian Robertson 10:26 ... when he was delivering those elbows.

Joe Rogan 10:27 And I think he kind of invented it, or at least he popularized it. We, we call it the Travis Browne 'cause he would drive down those elbows when you were trying to take him down. That was a horrible place to be.

Gillian Robertson 10:38 I don't think I've seen people drop like I have with Travis Browne. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:41 Well, he obviously drilled it, you know? I mean, it wasn't a, an improvised thing. At least I don't think it was. It just seemed so well-timed. And the force that he could generate 'cause he's so big and long. L- when you're a long person, like a Jon Jones-type person, the amount of f- m- extra force that you have and all that length and torque. Yeah, so somewhere in the clinch, so that we're gonna get a view of your whole fight here. Yeah, it's not on YouTube. It's on... Yeah. What is it like watching, watching yourself fight? Is it weird?

Gillian Robertson 11:12 Uh, I don't... I, uh, I guess I, I don't know. I l- I do it a lot. I w- I use myself as, uh, motivation of how I should perform.

Joe Rogan 11:21 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 11:21 A lot of times, I watch my past, uh, wins just to really, I guess, relive that kind of feeling. So then it gives you something to chase the next fight.

Joe Rogan 11:31 Oh, that sounds... That's brilliant. That's a great way to do it, especially since you've got these v- you know, w- well-documented awesome videos from the UFC-

Gillian Robertson 11:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:42 ... of your wins.

Gillian Robertson 11:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:43 I mean, i- it's so cr-... It's one of the coolest things ever to be a fan right now, that you can just watch fights at any time you want. Any time.

Gillian Robertson 11:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:50 Any time. Instantly, you're watching fights.

Gillian Robertson 11:53 Okay. I'm a huge fan of the sport just in general. So just being able to do that and, like, look up any type of, any fight-

Joe Rogan 11:59 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 11:59 ... anything you want, I'm like, "It's crazy."

Joe Rogan 12:01 I tell... I love it. It's like the best time ever for high-level kickboxing. It's the best time for amateur wrestling. It's the best time for submission grappling.Like, there's never been more people that have been more interested in submission grappling now.

Gillian Robertson 12:12 I think we got past the elbows here. This is where the chokes happen.

Joe Rogan 12:15 Yeah.

Narrator 12:16 That's why we're in the first round.

Gillian Robertson 12:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:19 This is-

Narrator 12:19 The first round.

Joe Rogan 12:19 It must-

Narrator 12:19 First round.

Joe Rogan 12:19 Oh, I was at round two? (clears throat) We can still watch that though. I still wanna watch that choke.

Narrator 12:24 I skipped ahead. I'll go back.

Joe Rogan 12:24 Okay. (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 12:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:27 Yeah, these are the... So, is right here he's telling you you have to do something?

Gillian Robertson 12:30 No, it was, uh... I had her butt on the floor by this point, 'cause I actually knew she had an injured knee going into this fight.

Joe Rogan 12:38 Oh. How'd you know that?

Gillian Robertson 12:39 Uh, she talked about it in, in interviews, and, uh, I actually knew a couple people she trained with who told me.

Joe Rogan 12:46 Oh, a bunch of rats.

Gillian Robertson 12:47 But, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:47 Dirty rats.

Gillian Robertson 12:49 But-

Joe Rogan 12:49 Dirty rats. Do you feel bad taking that information? (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 12:53 I mean, it is what it is. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:55 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 12:55 I, I definitely utilized it.

Joe Rogan 12:57 Uh, yeah, you have to.

Gillian Robertson 12:58 I try, like-

Joe Rogan 12:59 You'd be crazy not to.

Gillian Robertson 13:00 I probably wouldn't have committed to the knee bar so hard if I didn't know that that knee injury was there.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Right.

Gillian Robertson 13:06 Uh, so it's like, uh, I, I started going for the knee bar, and she just kept on hitting me with elbows, and then once we were on the floor, I think he thought I was injured-

Joe Rogan 13:17 Hmm.

Gillian Robertson 13:17 ... because I d- 'cause I was committing to the knee bar, so I was trying to put hips down.

Joe Rogan 13:21 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 13:21 So, uh, that's when he told me I needed to move.

Joe Rogan 13:24 It just started going in slow motion. The action.

Gillian Robertson 13:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:27 Why is going in slow motion?

Narrator 13:28 I don't know what's happening.

Joe Rogan 13:29 Is someone breaking down some specific...

Narrator 13:31 No, this is on ESPN's web-

Joe Rogan 13:32 Oh.

Narrator 13:33 ... site. It's just freaking out.

Joe Rogan 13:35 It's the Russians.

Gillian Robertson 13:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:36 The Russians don't like American's, Americans winning.

Narrator 13:39 What's that?

Joe Rogan 13:39 The Tr- (laughs) They don't like it.

Narrator 13:43 Uh, let's skip ahead.

Joe Rogan 13:46 Oh, okay. So at, at one point you were getting drilled with elbows. I don't know if we're gonna find it-

Gillian Robertson 13:52 (laughs)

Narrator 13:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:52 ... without watching the whole fight. But it was just an awesome performance-

Gillian Robertson 13:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:55 ... o- overall. That and the m- the Molly McCann one. You just, you've had a bunch of them. And I think I was equally impressed with the Rose Namajunas grappling match. That was, phew, that was so slick, like the way you took her back, and the controlling the position, like you never lost an inch. Like, you just kept progressing until you got the choke. It was awesome.

Gillian Robertson 14:18 Yeah, I feel like my choking game is definitely-

Joe Rogan 14:21 Phew.

Gillian Robertson 14:21 ... uh, it's different than anybody else's, and it's something that, uh, is a feel that I've been working on for years, and I feel like I still haven't even perfected it. But I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to making it perfect. And I think the Rose, um, grappling match was probably one of the opportunities where I feel like I really got it just that little bit more close to perfect, where-

Joe Rogan 14:44 Hmm.

Gillian Robertson 14:44 ... she, I wa- I wasn't even on her throat at first. She had her chin, uh, chin tucked, and, uh, my hand was in poor position, and I feel like I was just able to walk it closer and closer until I was able to make that hole tighter, and, uh, she had to give up her throat at that point.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Well, I, what I was super impressed with was your use of the shoulder, how you're using your right arm to control the shoulder, 'cause you don't quite have it, but you've got a nice grip on the cup of the shoulder, and you're using that leverage, like, that improvise. And then when you switch to the Gable grip, I was like, "Oh, shit." The Gable grip was it. But when you were using her shoulder, I was like, "That's brilliant."

Gillian Robertson 15:20 Oh, yeah. Dean always tells me, he's like, "If it, if her chin's tucked, you should be able to break it." You know?

Joe Rogan 15:24 Hmm.

Gillian Robertson 15:25 It's like, the goal is to break the jaw, so just creating that pressure with, uh, just c- closing the circle, you know?

Joe Rogan 15:32 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 15:32 And trying to make that circle smaller. So I'm just inching my hand deeper and my head deeper until I can really just make it so it's too small. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:40 And I love what you said, that you have, like, a feel for it, 'cause I think people would think of it, like, "Oh, it's just, like, you know, you know the movement. You do it," right? But it's just like everything else. It's like playing guitar. It's like any other thing that you learn how to do that's difficult. There's, like, levels and levels and levels and levels and levels. And when you watch, like, really high-level black belts going at it, going back and forth and trying to keep up with each other, it's like, whoa. Like, you're watching, like, the craziest kind of game ever. So...

Gillian Robertson 16:13 Uh, and like, I've taught my choke to multiple people, and I feel like people just don't get it still 'cause it's like, it just, it's something I've worked on for years.

Joe Rogan 16:21 So what's, what's specific about your choke?

Gillian Robertson 16:23 Uh, it's just the way that the- I, I have my pressure. Uh, I, I feel like I can generally finish it with one hand. I never really look for the hook, 'cause I'm usually just searching for it, uh, opportunistically, so I get it whenever it's almost too late to defend it.

Joe Rogan 16:38 Hmm.

Gillian Robertson 16:38 And, uh, even just, like, the, the pressure of my choke, though, I think it's something that anybody could learn, but it's just a lot of patience, 'cause it's something that's so basic and so simple. But like I said, I've drilled it a thousand times-

Joe Rogan 16:51 Hmm.

Gillian Robertson 16:51 ... and I don't think I have it right yet. So I think it's just you have, really have to put the time and effort into one specific motion, which i- a lot of people don't have time for. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:00 So you just over and over again drilled it, or you just over and over again used it in training? What, what, what i- what sparked this strangulation reign that you've been on? Like, how did that start?

Gillian Robertson 17:12 Uh, it's, uh, definitely both. Uh, I feel like a lot of my technique comes from Dean Thomas. He's the, kinda, like, the-

Joe Rogan 17:18 Dean's the man.

Gillian Robertson 17:18 Yeah, he's the engineer behind a lot of whatever I do.

Joe Rogan 17:22 Oh.

Gillian Robertson 17:23 And, uh, he, uh, kinda devised this way of going for the neck and just off-balancing opponents and attacking the throat, and we've been drilling it for years and years and years. And even, like, I feel like the way he's described it to me hasn't really clicked until, like, recently, where we've been drilling it for years, and now it's like, "All right, I kinda get this." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:43 Yeah, it's, um, y- the way you do it is t- it's, it's so i- it's so brilliantly, like, the way it progresses. Eh, what's beautiful to watch, like, especially the Rose match in particular, is, like, the, the squeeze that you put, like, the progression of it is, is what you wanna see. At a really high level, it's what you wanna see. And when someone executes and executes it on someone who is, uh, f- champion of the UFC, it's really incredible. I mean, that was a, um, amazing showcase for you.

Gillian Robertson 18:12 Oh, yeah, and into MMA it just plays in perfectly. Like, my last fight, uh, with Pierra Rodriguez, I was in mount throwing elbows the whole time, and every time she tried to turn her back a little bit, her coaches were like, "No, no, don't give your back." So they're just making her lay on the ground and take elbows to the face instead of giving up her back. So I'm like, it, it's, it's you're, you know, the worst of two worlds there.

Joe Rogan 18:33 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 18:33 Like, you get your choice.

Joe Rogan 18:36 ... do, do you, uh, have a- is the rest of your game as strong as your choke game?

Gillian Robertson 18:42 I think so. I think my top pressure in jujitsu is definitely something that, uh, a lot of girls especially have is ... even a lot of guys, I feel like. I get a lot of compliments that, uh, I feel like in the jujitsu world is the only place where you can tell a girl she's heavy and it's a compliment, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:55 (laughs) Right. "You got heavy hips." "What?"

Gillian Robertson 18:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:59 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 18:59 Everybody tells me that I'm really heavy, and, uh, it's, I- I feel like it's that kind of top pressure which is going to be dominant in an MMA game.

Joe Rogan 19:08 Yeah. It- it absolutely can be. I mean, you look at the guys from Dagestan, the- the- all the Khabib disciples. I- Islam Makhachev, Khabib. Those guys, they just crush you. They get on top of you and crush you, and when you see where really good, you know, high level submission artists get smooshed by guys like Khabib, you're like, "Wow." Like, that's- that's some cra- it's like there's layers and layers to everything, and we didn't know the layer of like controlling the legs with the legs until Khabib came along and did it, and when he would do it so thoroughly, you'd be like, "Jesus Christ." He- he does this to everybody. Like, he didn't even have a bad moment, you know, until like, there was like, a g- the Gleison Tibau fight was a pretty close fight, I believe. And then one round with Conor, but it- even that round was like a round he took off, you know.

Gillian Robertson 19:57 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:57 And- it's like, that guy. But they'll- the squeeze that guy had, it's like everybody that trains with him says, "You don't understand." Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like he weighs 400 pounds. (laughs) Like, it doesn't even make any sense.

Gillian Robertson 20:09 (laughs) Yeah, that top control is just completely different, and it's like, I always say, I'm like, people hit a lot less- like, they don't hit as hard when they're on their back.

Joe Rogan 20:16 Right. Of course.

Gillian Robertson 20:17 So (laughs) I'd rather have somebody on their back than standing face to face with me, you know.

Joe Rogan 20:21 And you're draining them.

Gillian Robertson 20:22 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 20:23 It's exhausting. You- that person carrying your weight, it's exhausting. You're always m- moving to try to defend. It's very difficult to get out of, and especially with someone- if- if it's a superior grappler in the- the scramble, he's just gonna take your back.

Gillian Robertson 20:37 Exactly. Always looking for the submissions, the strikes, and, uh, if I'm on bottom, it's s- strike, sweep, submit, or stand up, you know. We're just working f- for the finish constantly.

Joe Rogan 20:47 Well, that's what I love about your style, and I think that's what makes it so fan friendly too. It's- it's so exciting. Um, I- and I love the- the technique. The technique is so sharp. But w- you were saying something that I wanted to ask you to elaborate on. You said you don't even go for the hooks. You just- you're- you're so concerned with the choke that you'll, like, take the choke even if you have no hooks and then get the hooks later.

Gillian Robertson 21:09 Uh, the hooks aren't even- like, that's like last priority or I don't need them even. I don't think I had any hooks when I choked Rose. Uh, but I just- I have such a unique grip with, uh, uh, how I- with my head and hand position on my choke, so it's just- it doesn't really matter. That's where my control point is. It's not on the lower half of the body.

Joe Rogan 21:29 Hmm.

Gillian Robertson 21:29 It's on the choke. And usually when I have the choke, before I get the hooks in, it's like people aren't ready to defend it. Usually you put the hooks in and people are already here, and now you have to hand fight and you're there for who knows how long.

Joe Rogan 21:42 Right.

Gillian Robertson 21:42 Where if I get my choke first, then it's like, if I need the hooks for control, I can get them in, but you're already choking, so you're worried about that.

Joe Rogan 21:50 So i- is this Dean coaching? Did he coach you to do it this way?

Gillian Robertson 21:55 Oh, yeah. He definitely came up with the whole game plan of that, where it's just, uh, going for the choke alm- just opportunistically.

Joe Rogan 22:02 Wow. Just because you're so good at it.

Gillian Robertson 22:05 Uh, I feel like literally I've worked with Dean since day one, so I think it's- he kind of also just, uh, molded this game plan for me.

Joe Rogan 22:15 That's awesome. He's the second best dressed guy in MMA. It's like- just like a neck and neck with him and Bruce Buffer, but I think you gotta give the nod to Buffer.

Gillian Robertson 22:23 Yeah, I think you have to give it to Buffer.

Joe Rogan 22:25 He- he has such crazy suits. He has suits with like pictures of Elvis inside of them and shit. (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 22:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:29 He's like- every suit is weirder. They're crazy. They're so beautiful too. They're all perfectly tailored.

Gillian Robertson 22:35 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:35 He must have 100,000 of them. I mean, how many fucking suits does that guy have?

Narrator 22:39 He changes multiple times now too.

Joe Rogan 22:41 Oh, he's a maniac.

Narrator 22:41 Like main card suit.

Joe Rogan 22:43 Yeah.

Narrator 22:43 Thundercard suit.

Joe Rogan 22:44 Bro, his tailor must be balling.

Gillian Robertson 22:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:46 'Cause it's all custom made shit.

Narrator 22:48 Look at this one.

Joe Rogan 22:48 It's beautiful. Oh, that's Miami?

Narrator 22:51 Uh.

Joe Rogan 22:52 What's in there?

Narrator 22:52 That's him. That's him in Vegas.

Joe Rogan 22:53 It's all the things- oh, Vegas.

Gillian Robertson 22:54 Him in Vegas.

Joe Rogan 22:55 Vegas. Oh, it's all him. (laughs)

Narrator 22:58 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 22:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:59 He's his own lining of his own jacket.

Narrator 23:01 Yeah. Look, he's just- it's a comic book or something.

Joe Rogan 23:03 How dope is it, though, that- when that guy yells your name?

Gillian Robertson 23:06 I know. Literally last fight, I had to think to myself, I'm like, "All right. That's Bruce Buffer. Just focus on the fight." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:12 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 23:13 Like, just think about Pierre right now. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:15 Is it weird?

Gillian Robertson 23:15 It's definitely weird. I don't know. It's- everything is weird about this for me. It's just like I don't- I- I'm just like, I guess, a socially awkward, kind of don't really put myself out there. Well, I do with fighting, but it's like I've never really put myself out there in life. So it's like to be in these kind of positions, it's just- it's all a lot for me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:35 Wow. Well, it's amazing that the way you handle fighting. Uh, you could handle this the same way you handle fighting. You'd just get comfortable with it.

Gillian Robertson 23:43 I think that, uh, I don't know. For me, social situations are a lot harder than like fighting situations.

Joe Rogan 23:47 Wow.

Gillian Robertson 23:49 I think-

Joe Rogan 23:49 That's crazy.

Gillian Robertson 23:49 Oh, yeah. Like, talk-

Joe Rogan 23:50 Has it always been like that?

Gillian Robertson 23:52 100%. It's-

Joe Rogan 23:52 Since you were a child?

Gillian Robertson 23:54 Yeah, uh, I feel like I've always been like the- like socially awkward kid in the back of the class, like the nerd. Well, I still am. (laughs) Like at the gym. But, um, I volunteered with animals my whole life. I, uh, volunteered at like an- uh, the Humane Society, a horse rescue, uh, wildlife rehab. Uh, just like animals were my thing. And then it was just kind of left field, I started kickboxing when I was 16.

Joe Rogan 24:21 Just for fun?

Gillian Robertson 24:22 It- uh, yeah. I really don't know where it came- like what the idea was, but, uh, I-

Joe Rogan 24:26 Where'd you start? What gym?

Gillian Robertson 24:27 At Dean's gym. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:28 Oh, okay.

Gillian Robertson 24:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:29 Wow. You got lucky.

Gillian Robertson 24:30 So- exactly. Uh, one of Dean's pro fighters worked for my dad. So, uh, I wanted to start kickboxing, and then my dad found out that this guy was a pro fighter for Dean, so he ended up finding his gym and that was the first gym I started at.

Joe Rogan 24:44 Wow.Well, what a great place to start. And so then you start kickboxing, and how long before you decide, "Well, what about this MMA stuff?" How long was that?

Gillian Robertson 24:56 Uh, I think it w- uh, probably like four or five months before I started taking the MMA class there, but I wasn't, like, thinking about fighting. It was just, uh, there was a kid who was on the wrestling team at my high school who started training at Dean's Gym and he was like, "Oh, why don't you take the MMA class?" And I thought, "Okay, I'll have a partner. Why don't I try it?" And I just kept on doing it. And then I was training, like, every day for like three hours a night, you know? And they're like, "All right. Well, why don't we just get you a fight at this point?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:26 (laughs) Wow. What was it about fighting and martial arts that you became so obsessed with?

Gillian Robertson 25:32 I really think it was the, uh ... Well, I, I don't know what it was at first, uh, 'cause I didn't start Jujitsu, especially in the Gi, until like a year after I started training. But, uh, when I started Gi Jujitsu, I fell in love with that 100%, where it's just the technique of it. And the, the little tiny details of Jujitsu that matter so much, like if you put your thumb on this side of the hand or on this side of the hand-

Joe Rogan 25:55 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 25:55 ... it makes a huge difference. It's like the little tiny techniques that can make the difference where now 115-pound girl at the time could do whatever she wanted to a 200-pound guy. You know, I was manhandling these guys around the room (laughs) and I'm like, just 'cause of these techniques that I learned and I, I thought that was awesome.

Joe Rogan 26:14 Yeah, that is an amazing thing. It's, Jujitsu's the one martial art that delivers as promised, where the smaller trained person can defeat the larger untrained person, whereas a lot of other martial arts, I mean, you have a better chance, but when they're really big, you know, if, uh, some guy's swinging at ... If he knows how to punch a little bit and you get clubbed with one of those giant hams, uh, you can get fucked up. But if you get into a struggle, like some sort of a scramble, and you knock into some chairs and all of a sudden you, you get ahold of this person, well, now he's fucked. That's what's crazy. It's like, that a small person can physically control and submit a, a much stronger person regularly. It happens all the time. It happens with black belts.

Gillian Robertson 27:01 Uh, even in striking, it's like a person can not know anything, but if they're big enough-

Joe Rogan 27:05 Right.

Gillian Robertson 27:05 ... they throw their hand the right way, they can knock you out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:08 Yeah, yeah. If you get hit with Francis Ngannou's pinky-

Gillian Robertson 27:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:11 ... you're in trouble.

Gillian Robertson 27:12 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 27:12 You know, there's certain people that they're so powerful, like, y- the idea that you're gonna stand and trade with them is cra- They're gonna hit you once and you're dead. (laughs) You know, that's like ... It just doesn't work that well.

Gillian Robertson 27:23 Jujitsu is just, there's the, not the, uh, variant of space.

Joe Rogan 27:27 Right.

Gillian Robertson 27:27 So there's not that element of, uh, guessing-

Joe Rogan 27:30 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 27:30 ... where it's like I can control and I can feel what you're gonna do by touching you. (laughs) It's like it makes it a lot easier. You're not guessing with that space of striking.

Joe Rogan 27:38 You're also not guessing the variables, like, "How fast is this person? What am ... How fast am I accustomed to people punching me? Is this person much faster? Do I have to, uh, uh, anticipate that?" Because if you ever see, like, street fight videos, the, the most horrific ones are some poor asshole who wants to start a fight with someone who's a trained fighter and the trained fighter fucks him up. But you could see, like, they have no idea how fast things can happen. Like, you, I'm, I'm sure you've seen the Joe Schilling one.

Gillian Robertson 28:07 Yes. Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 28:07 Joe Schilling one's ridiculous.

Gillian Robertson 28:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:09 But there's no way that guy could've known that that could happen that quickly. There's no way. Like-

Gillian Robertson 28:14 And people don't expect, like, like, uh, for someone like me, th- a lot of times I get, "Oh, uh, I would never guess that you're a fighter." For someone like Joe Schilling, it's still even like, "Oh, yeah. You wouldn't ... Like, just seeing him-

Joe Rogan 28:25 He looks like an ax murderer. (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 28:26 Well, you just see him walking around and it like ... Most people, you don't expect that they're-

Joe Rogan 28:30 Joe Schilling, you don't expect it?

Gillian Robertson 28:31 Well, I don't know. With him-

Joe Rogan 28:31 He looks like a-

Gillian Robertson 28:32 ... there, I probably-

Joe Rogan 28:32 ... psycho to me. (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 28:33 Yeah, yeah. But say like Ryan Hall.

Joe Rogan 28:35 Ryan Hall is a great example.

Gillian Robertson 28:37 Yeah. You don't expect-

Joe Rogan 28:38 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 28:38 ... him to be a fighter, but it's like you never know what somebody's capable of when it comes to sports like this.

Joe Rogan 28:42 Oh, for sure with Jujitsu, Mikey Musumeci.

Gillian Robertson 28:45 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 28:45 I mean, that's the best example.

Gillian Robertson 28:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:46 Mikey is a stone cold killer and he looks like a guy who comes over to fix your computer.

Gillian Robertson 28:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:52 (laughs) Like, he l- he's, he looks like he has ... The friendliest super nerd.

Narrator 28:57 The friendliest video.

Joe Rogan 28:57 Oh, this video's horrible. This is a street fight in, in a parking garage. Have you seen this?

Gillian Robertson 29:02 No.

Joe Rogan 29:03 (clicks tongue) These guys start fucking with this dude in the parking garage, the guy's trying to get away. No, he fucked the other guy up before this.

Narrator 29:08 Uh, this is the shorter version. I'm pretty sure.

Joe Rogan 29:09 Okay, this is the shorter version. So this guy, i- he's trying... He's like, "Come on. You want some?" And he moves forward. This guy leg kicks him and then-

Narrator 29:18 But it doesn't take-

Joe Rogan 29:18 ... this is where it gets ugly. Punches him, bam.

Narrator 29:23 Bam. He's out. And they're still ... They're gonna keep on fighting.

Joe Rogan 29:30 Yeah, you don't want that. Like, what? Uh, like-

Narrator 29:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:33 S- it's it's, it's awesome to see that stuff works, right? For people. Like, "Hey, this is real." If someone tries to attack you, you have an upper hand, but also, like, what are you doing?

Gillian Robertson 29:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:43 Like, these fucking people.

Gillian Robertson 29:45 Uh, I've never been in a street fight in my life.

Joe Rogan 29:47 Good for you.

Gillian Robertson 29:48 And like I don't intend to ever.

Joe Rogan 29:49 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 29:49 But (laughs) it's just ... I, I don't get it. Like, yeah, there's, uh, uh, I don't see a use for fighting outside the cage for me. Like, uh-

Joe Rogan 29:58 There's a lot of people w- with ma- anger management issues, and then there's criminals too and, you know, bad folks.

Gillian Robertson 30:04 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 30:05 Yeah. There's a lot of weird stuff in the world. But, uh, just for me, um, I think i- it's fascinating that you are more afraid of social interaction than you're afraid of cage fighting. (laughs) That might be one of the greatest lines that anyone has ever said. I think that's gonna get you a lot of fans.

Gillian Robertson 30:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:23 For real.

Gillian Robertson 30:24 For me, it's just, like, literally I never really, uh, did any kind of interviews or media or anything like that until I got in the Tough House.

Joe Rogan 30:32 Ah.

Gillian Robertson 30:32 So that's going from absolutely zero to 100% like ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:37 What was that like? You w- you were like 22 at the time?

Gillian Robertson 30:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:40 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 30:40 I was 22 and I was having interviews every day, cameras on you 24/7. Literally after every single interview, I had to go and change my shirt 'cause I'd be dripping sweat like I just got out the sauna.

Joe Rogan 30:51 Whoa.

Gillian Robertson 30:51 Just so nervous-

Joe Rogan 30:53 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 30:53 ... after every single interview.

Joe Rogan 30:55 Do you think they brought you into the house knowing that you were nervous too? That you, like that you're a little socially awkward in that regard and like that maybe that would make good television?

Gillian Robertson 31:04 Uh, I guess I never thought of it in that way.

Joe Rogan 31:07 ... obviously they brought you in 'cause you're skillful.

Gillian Robertson 31:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:10 But, but they also cast that show as a reality show. It's a very cleverly done show. You know, like, it's smart the way they do it. They, like, even with what they're doing now with Conor McGregor and Michael Chandler, it's great, but perfect sh- perfect shit-talking. When Conor tells him, "You'll do as you're told..." (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 31:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:30 It's amazing. Kail, I hope that fight takes place. But it's, it's such a, it's such a show, right, so it's not-

Gillian Robertson 31:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:36 ... just an athletic competition. It's also, they want to make sure the people are fun.

Gillian Robertson 31:40 Oh, yeah. Our season seemed pretty, like, tame, though, I feel like, in general. We had a lot of... There was me and Montana Delarosa were the two, like, younger girls, and then everybody else, I feel like, was, like, older and more mature.

Joe Rogan 31:52 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 31:52 Like around, like, at least, like, 30s, and like, they were like... I don't... Nobody was trying to start drama. Nobody was trying to, like, get in each other's faces. There were... we didn't have any altercations. It was like, it was, it... a pretty chill season.

Joe Rogan 32:05 That's great. So no one e- ever encourages, like, uh, any bickering or anything like that? They don't ever tell you, "Hey, you know, this bitch has been saying some shit"?

Gillian Robertson 32:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:13 Does anybody ever do that? (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 32:15 No, nobody ever really does anything like that, but it's just like, the boredom gets to you, if anything else.

Joe Rogan 32:19 Oh.

Gillian Robertson 32:19 It's like, I feel like, eh-

Joe Rogan 32:21 No phones, right?

Gillian Robertson 32:22 No phones, no TV, no music, no books-

Joe Rogan 32:25 Ooh.

Gillian Robertson 32:26 ... no nothing.

Joe Rogan 32:26 No books?

Gillian Robertson 32:27 Nothing at all.

Joe Rogan 32:28 Oh my God. Nothing?

Gillian Robertson 32:30 So it's like-

Joe Rogan 32:31 Can you have a notebook?

Gillian Robertson 32:32 You're allowed to get a notebook, and then they gave us... We, uh, asked for coloring books and they gave us sketch pads.

Joe Rogan 32:39 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 32:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:40 Oh my God, I think I would go nuts. That sounds like one of those, uh, r- like, anti-tech retreats, you know?

Gillian Robertson 32:46 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Where they try to, uh, weed people off their tech, tech addictions.

Gillian Robertson 32:51 (laughs) I was just talking to one of the boys who's actually on the Conor McGregor season over the weekend, and he said the exact same thing as me. He was like, "It was the bir- uh, best and worst experience of my life." Because it's like, when you're in the gym, there's so many highs, it's so great, but then when you go back to the house, you're just sitting there for hours and you're bored and it sucks. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:10 What do you guys do to kill time? Can you play games? Do they have, like... Uh, us- they used to have pool, right?

Gillian Robertson 33:15 Yeah, they'll, uh... I think they had a pool table and a chess table, and then they ha- have, like, the list where you can order anything.

Joe Rogan 33:20 Oh.

Gillian Robertson 33:21 So-

Joe Rogan 33:21 So you could order, like, Monopoly?

Gillian Robertson 33:22 Yeah, so we would, uh, order a bunch of bullshit, just-

Joe Rogan 33:25 Just to play?

Gillian Robertson 33:25 ... try and entertain ourselves.

Joe Rogan 33:26 God. Did y- well, uh, did you have good conversations?

Gillian Robertson 33:31 Uh-

Joe Rogan 33:31 Or was it weird 'cause you're all competitors?

Gillian Robertson 33:33 It, it's weird... Well, not 'cause we're competitors, 'cause I'm weird. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:39 (laughs) That's awesome.

Gillian Robertson 33:42 And like, I felt like I, I... Especially back then, I wasn't able to just, like, I don't know, acclimate to that, going into a house with 16 different girls that I don't really know.

Joe Rogan 33:52 Right. L- yeah. The, the, uh, a completely alien experience. And you're so... You're feeling a little bit awkward and you're also 22. And then also, bam! Now you're on TV.

Gillian Robertson 34:03 And it's my first time, like, really, like, leaving home, I would say, you know, for a long period of time, so it was, it was definitely a big exper- like, a lot to take on.

Joe Rogan 34:11 How long ago was that now?

Gillian Robertson 34:13 Um, six years?

Joe Rogan 34:15 Six years.

Gillian Robertson 34:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:16 So, d- would... do you s- would you say that now you're entering into your fighting prime? Do you think that's happening, like, right now?

Gillian Robertson 34:23 Oh, yeah. I think this is, like, just the beginning of my prime. I'm just getting into where I've really found the right combination for everything, and I feel like I'm just getting better every fight.

Joe Rogan 34:33 Are you ranked right now? In the... Wh- where you at?

Gillian Robertson 34:35 Uh, my next fight is against the number 15 girl, uh, Tabatha Ricky.

Joe Rogan 34:40 Mm-hmm. Interesting. She's tough.

Gillian Robertson 34:43 I-

Joe Rogan 34:43 That'll be fun. That'll be a good one.

Gillian Robertson 34:44 Yeah, I'm like, "It's coming up quick. June 24th."

Joe Rogan 34:46 Oh, wow. That is quick. Y- how m- how many would you... What i- what is, like, your ideal camp size, like, for, in terms of weeks?

Gillian Robertson 34:54 Uh, I would say probably about six to eight weeks. I, like, just to get focused on that opponent, really start, uh, breaking down their style and game-planning for them specifically. Uh, but it's like with the UFC, (laughs) you never know what you're getting.

Joe Rogan 35:07 Right. Like, how often do they call you last-minute?

Gillian Robertson 35:10 Uh, I've gotten a handful of last-minute ones, and, uh, I feel like it's almost just as bad getting, like, the ones 16 weeks out and things like that, 'cause you're just sitting there waiting-

Joe Rogan 35:18 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 35:19 ... for so long.

Joe Rogan 35:21 Um, w- or you run the risk of over-training.

Gillian Robertson 35:24 Yeah, well-

Joe Rogan 35:24 H- have you ever done that?

Gillian Robertson 35:25 I-

Joe Rogan 35:25 Re 峰 eaked too early in a camp?

Gillian Robertson 35:28 I feel like I train year-round no matter what. (laughs) So it's like, it's never really like we're... I don't... We push at the last couple weeks, but that's about it, so...

Joe Rogan 35:35 Oh, really? So you're just always training so hard that you can essentially take a... Well, that's great if you want to take a short-notice fight.

Gillian Robertson 35:41 Yeah, I j-

Joe Rogan 35:41 'Cause you're always prepared.

Gillian Robertson 35:42 I train probably about four or five hours in the morning and about an hour at night, even if I'm off camp. Like, in camp, out of camp, it doesn't matter. I-

Joe Rogan 35:49 Wow.

Gillian Robertson 35:49 ... on the same schedule.

Joe Rogan 35:51 I- just obsession?

Gillian Robertson 35:53 Yeah, I, I got nothing better to do. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:57 (laughs) But I mean, what an amazing way to get better, you know? I mean, wh- w- like, when you think about grappling and you think about Gordon Ryan, uh, i- no one doubts that he's the best no-gi grappler ever. Right? But no one also doubts that he works 365 days a year. Like, that's, that's an insane work schedule, and these are insane results.

Gillian Robertson 36:17 And-

Joe Rogan 36:17 And you're essentially doing that in MMA.

Gillian Robertson 36:20 That's what I think you see with, like, a lot of black belts, or, like, people who are at a high level, is they stop drilling.

Joe Rogan 36:26 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 36:26 They stop doing the stuff that... Like, Gordon Ryan still drills every day.

Joe Rogan 36:29 Yep.

Gillian Robertson 36:29 And that's why he's so good at what he does. And it's like, people at a high level in MMA, they're just doing what the black belts do and sitting on the side until it's time to roll.

Joe Rogan 36:37 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 36:38 You know?

Joe Rogan 36:38 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 36:39 And it's like, you gotta be drilling every day. You gotta be putting in the hours. Uh, like, my coaches are there with me, uh, every hour of the day if I wanted for th- um, to be. You know, they're willing to put in the work. And like I said, as fighters, we got nothing better to do.

Joe Rogan 36:53 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 36:53 We literally... This is what we do. Like, you gotta treat it as like you're going to school, a doctorate, you know?

Joe Rogan 36:59 Well, I think that approach, your approach, is perfect. That's the right way to do it. I r- I really do. I mean, but everybody's different, you know? So... People have, like, different ways of fighting and different ways of approaching fighting, and some are much more chaotic than, like, you and your style. But I think that's the, s-... that, that's the best way to look at it. And I think, uh, too often people love to roll, 'cause rolling's so fun. It's so fun that you just don't even wanna do all that other stuff. You know, let me get warmed up a little bit, and let's fucking go, let's go. You just wanna go, because it's so exciting. It's the most fun thing, and it's exercise. So it's, like, engaging intellectually. It's physically, it's emotionally engaging. It's like sometimes you're like, "Fuck!" Like, you're, you're gonna tap and you don't, and there's a lot going on. You know, there's battles going on. And it's a great workout. And if you can do it, and if you could do it on a regular basis, it could change your life. It could change your life. And it's available to everybody. Like this idea that it's all brutes, when you go to 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, you see these, like, dudes that look like skateboarders and surfers, and they'll strangle you. It's weird. It's like they'll... They're super nerd assassins. There's a, a ton of them, and, and you're one of them on the female side. (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 38:15 (laughs) Yeah, I feel like that's, uh, I don't know. For me, it's like I said, I've never been, like, someone athletic. I volunteered with the animals growing up, you know? I was always the quiet kid in the back of the class, and it's, like, just to... I don't know, with jiu-jitsu is being able to be that, like, uh, I don't know, be that voice in a way, you know?

Joe Rogan 38:33 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 38:33 Being that way to express myself, and it's... I, I feel like it, it was just, like, completely not who I was when I was little, you know? It was just... It's, uh, completely out of left field.

Joe Rogan 38:45 But it's you, you know? You're just growing, you know? This is the new you.

Gillian Robertson 38:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:50 Right? I mean, it is you.

Gillian Robertson 38:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:52 And you're gonna... If you continue and you become champion, you're gonna have to do a lot of this shit.

Gillian Robertson 38:57 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:58 (laughs) You're gonna have to do a lot of this shit, you know? I mean, um, how many fights do you think you are away from a title shot? It's a stacked division.

Gillian Robertson 39:08 I don't think I'm too far away from it currently. Uh, I think that on a... As, after this fight, I would like... Uh, I'm not looking past Sabbath at all, but I'm also, like, looking at wha- the truderect- trajectory of where I'm going. And, uh, obviously, Mackenzie Dern just put on a great performance a couple weeks ago.

Joe Rogan 39:26 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 39:26 And, uh, she has the second most submissions in, uh, women's history, and I have the first. So, it's like, I think, uh, I would like to, you know, just solidify that. Everybody calls her the Submission Queen, even though I'm like, "I have more than her." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:42 Well, she's pretty awesome, but you are too. That would be a crazy fight.

Gillian Robertson 39:45 Oh, yeah. And I think then that f- after that fight, I wouldn't be too far away from the title fight.

Joe Rogan 39:50 I was very impressed with her against Angela Hill. The, uh, Angela Hill is so tough. She was taking so many shots, like oh, my god. And she just kept fight- would not give up that armbar. Like so many times, Mackenzie came so close to getting that armbar, and Angela was just not giving up, but oof.

Gillian Robertson 40:09 I think that's the best Mackenzie we've seen so far.

Joe Rogan 40:12 Ever, ever. The, she's just like... To be... It was incredible, incredible performance, and super aggressive too.

Gillian Robertson 40:19 Exactly, that's what I feel like was beneficial for her.

Joe Rogan 40:22 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 40:22 She doesn't have to worry about getting taken down-

Joe Rogan 40:25 Right.

Gillian Robertson 40:25 ... typically, you know?

Joe Rogan 40:26 No.

Gillian Robertson 40:26 So she can be a little bit reckless and come in with those strikes, and that's exactly what she needed to do with Angela Hill, and she was able to do it.

Joe Rogan 40:32 And she's dangerous on her feet now, too. It used to be just the ground, but now she's winging bombs, and she, she could hit Angela with a knee. You know, she's very dangerous.

Gillian Robertson 40:41 And as she says, she doesn't have to be scared, you know?

Joe Rogan 40:43 Right.

Gillian Robertson 40:43 So she can throw, over-commit to any strike-

Joe Rogan 40:46 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 40:46 ... throw with all her power-

Joe Rogan 40:48 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 40:48 ... and it doesn't matter 'cause it's like, "Put me on my back." Like, "Thank you." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:51 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 40:51 Like, "Come into my guard." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:53 Yeah, there's guards, you know, and then some... I mean, her guard is fucking nasty. Her guard is so high level. Everything she does is so high level. It's like when you can watch jiu-jitsu like that in MMA, like a real world champion when it goes to the ground, like h- her, like, w- w- m- moving from position, to position, to position, to finally securing, it's like woof. It's so quick. She's so good, so good and so technical. You know, her dad's a legend. It's just like that kind of, like, high-level jiu-jitsu in MMA is some of my favorite shit to watch. You know, there's, there's certain people that just have e- either one or two elite high-level moves that they could pull off. And when they do it, you're just like, uh, you're doing this to the best of the best in the world.

Gillian Robertson 41:39 Yeah, I feel like with jiu-jitsu it's just like h- I don't... Just moving with people so much that I feel like it's so impressive to watch how people can just float on top of people.

Joe Rogan 41:47 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 41:47 It's like knowing when to control and when to release almost, you know? When, uh, you really need a... I don't know. Some people are specialists at control, but like for someone like me, I feel like I'm s- I'm better at flowing, you know, and letting people fall, make their own mistakes and fall into things. Whereas someone like Khabib is that pressure kind of fighter.

Joe Rogan 42:05 Right. You're, you're better at finding the openings as you, you, you threaten them in different areas, and just move into position and hold it.

Gillian Robertson 42:13 Or, uh, not necessarily me threatening them, but them falling into their own mistake. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:18 Oh.

Gillian Robertson 42:18 And I feel like I like sit... Like I'm just sitting there doing damage until I see the opening, until I see my opportunity, until I see that one mistake that you made and I capitalize on it.

Joe Rogan 42:30 And is this how you've always done it? Or is this something you're d- you're doing now better than you've ever done before?

Gillian Robertson 42:37 This is something I'm definitely doing now better than I've ever done before, and-

Joe Rogan 42:40 Was this the same approach that you had in the beginning of your career when you first started?

Gillian Robertson 42:43 Um, I don't think as much just because now I feel, I feel like I went from a, a jiu-jitsu girl who did MMA to an MMA fighter more.

Joe Rogan 42:51 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 42:52 Whereas like now, uh, I don't know. Like, a lot of my early submissions were armbars off my back, where I was just comfortable playing guard. I didn't care 'cause I was good at jiu-jitsu. Whereas like now I'm always looking to do damage wherever I'm at. Typically, uh, like to sit on top and do heavy ground and pound and heavy top pressure until they're like, "All right, we need to get this girl off me. I need to stand up." And then that's when I capitalize. Uh, typically, oft... A lot of the times, oft the stand-up is where I find my choke. Or if they're just staying on their back is where my armbar open up, or, like, head and arms, other opportunities where I just don't like to give up that top position.

Joe Rogan 43:31 Yeah, top position's so, so important. It's just... If you can control the top, it's just much easier for you than it is for the other per- and it's also kinda humiliating-

Gillian Robertson 43:40 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:40 ... when someone's on top of you in front of all these people punching you in the face.

Gillian Robertson 43:43 It's also just, uh, a lot to carry on top of you.

Joe Rogan 43:45 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 43:45 It makes it... You gasp, makes it heavy.

Joe Rogan 43:47 Yeah, it sucks.

Gillian Robertson 43:47 Yeah. And that, like... I feel like nobody understands the cardio that it takes to get up and get down, and get up and get down in MMA versus like if you're just doing jiu-jitsu, or you're just doing kickboxing rounds. It's like once you mix it all together, it's just... It changes the pace. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:03 ... clearly, yeah. I remember one of the most brilliant things that, um, uh, when Georges St-Pierre fought BJ Penn, he wanted to grapple with him immediately. He wanted to really get a hold of him right away to wear his arms out. He goes, "I wanted his arms to be filled with blood."

Gillian Robertson 44:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:17 So, like, it changes it. It changes your ability to throw punches. It changes your ability to get snap off, to explode. You're- you're kind of gassed out because you- you've been pummeling and trying to avoid being taken to the ground. It's just this... When people don't know when they see y- like, your fights, these f- these exchanges against the cage, those are some of the most grueling moments in all of MMA, just the- the- the battle to see who wins this thing.

Gillian Robertson 44:43 Yeah, exactly, especially against the cage. Honestly, a lot of those battles, I'm just like, if we can find an opportunity to break off, I'm willing to because it's like, if I didn't get the take down initially, then I'm just gonna be grueling, like you said, like, it's gonna be hard work to get them down.

Joe Rogan 44:59 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 44:59 Where it's like, why don't... Let's break off, reset, and find the opportunity, find the right timing for the take down instead of sitting here and just grinding it out and just tiring both of us out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:09 Yeah. It's, um, it's such a- a- an- an interesting time for, uh, MMA because you're seeing people like yourself that are y- young and grew up with it, and got to watch it on television, and got to... W- w- what did... What was the first MMA fight that you ever saw?

Gillian Robertson 45:26 I think the first one that I ever watched was, uh, Jon Jones and I think it was Rashad Evans.

Joe Rogan 45:33 So, you were watching at a very high level as opposed to a lot of the people that, like, even Jon Jones, the stuff he got to see was stuff from 10 years before that. And, like, the kids of today, the kids like yourself, like you, the- the people growing up now, you guys have the most, um, amazing library of champions to study in- in all the different forms of martial arts, and to see people like yourself that are putting it together so obsessively and- and- and- and to watch it succeed over and over again inside the octagon, it's fucking cool. I love it. It's real- it's so ex- such an exciting time.

Gillian Robertson 46:11 I feel like it's the beginning of MMA as a sport-

Joe Rogan 46:13 Hmm.

Gillian Robertson 46:14 ... where it's like so- for so long it's been jujitsu guys who do a little bit of striking or, like-

Joe Rogan 46:20 Right.

Gillian Robertson 46:20 ... or like wrestlers or strikers. But now, it's like it's people putting it together and making styles and systems based upon the- these things.

Joe Rogan 46:30 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 46:30 Where it's like I- I feel like honestly Dean is one of, uh, obviously I work with him, but he's one of the best in trying to innovate, and that's why I appreciate his mind so much of just trying to make it MMA as a sport whenever he's ... on the techniques that he has me drilling, where I feel like it's like Danaher innovated the, uh, no- nogi game with leg locks. It's like we need to change this from being kickboxing, jujitsu, and wrestling to being mixed martial arts.

Joe Rogan 46:57 Dean always has awesome input whenever we're doing the shows and that they cut to him. He'll always point out something that I probably missed. And when you're watching these high level people that are, that are coming up right now, it, there- there is still the room for the specialist. There's still the room for, like, the Anderson Silva style striking. The- the problem is, with all fights, is they all start standing up. And if you are standing up with a guy like Alex Pereira, like you're in a world of danger. It's a terrifying world. Like, so there are still those specialists that are so goddamn dangerous at this one aspect of the game that they can get through. And the problem with, like, I always wonder, will there be... Like, 'cause Israel is a striking specialist too, but will there be an MMA fighter that is complete everywhere to the point where they can stand with a world champion kickboxer? Is that a real thing? Or is that, is that only a few freaks? Or is that, is that... It seems like in order to be a world champion kickboxer, you have to really dedicate yourself only to striking. The timing that's involved, the distance. No, you're not thinking about take downs. You're not thinking about anything else. For you to be a world champion MMA fighter, you have to be well-versed in so many different things. Can... Do you really have the time to dedicate to get to the kickboxing level that this guy is? And every fight starts kickboxing. Every fight starts way apart from each other. And when you got a guy like Pereira moving towards you with that crazy style, you're like, "Oh, Jesus Christ." (laughs) You know? Or Adesanya-

Gillian Robertson 48:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:31 ... like standing in front of you moving and you're like, "This motherfucker has to be three moves ahead. We haven't even started s- exchanging yet."

Gillian Robertson 48:38 Yeah, uh, I guess you gotta hope to take, get those guys on their back quick, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:42 I know. (laughs) That's what I'm saying.

Gillian Robertson 48:43 But-

Joe Rogan 48:43 But it's interesting to watch, like, the evolution of Robert Whitaker-

Gillian Robertson 48:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:47 ... you know, 'cause Robert Whittaker, you know, he evolved so much more from the first fight to the second fight. He got so much better.

Gillian Robertson 48:53 Yeah. No, uh, I- I don't know. It's definitely, uh, when you have a good striker, it's hard to... Obviously, like we discussed earlier with the space-

Joe Rogan 49:01 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 49:01 ... you know, you can never guess what's gonna happen, but it's just like, I feel like if you are a good grappler or a good wrestler and you are able to get asthmatic, you can be that much more effective-

Joe Rogan 49:10 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 49:10 ... than having a good striker in front of you.

Joe Rogan 49:13 Yes. Well, you certainly can. The- the- the difference is you can control what's happening when... if you can get someone and you get on top of them, right? The- what I always wonder is, like, I wonder if there are... the people like Pereira or of that ilk, uh, Cedric Doumbé, who I think is now gonna fight for PFL, he's... Have you ever seen that guy fight?

Gillian Robertson 49:33 No.

Joe Rogan 49:33 Holy shit. He's a glory world champion kickboxer, and he, he's a bad man. And he has a crazy work ethic too. He used my gym when he was in town, and he has a coach, and they do these strength and conditioning routines. Excuse me. I'll get something else.... they do these, uh, strength and conditioning routines where it's, um, like, one round of sprinting on the, uh, one of those, uh, self-propelled treadmills, and then one, one round of going hard on the bag, and then one round of plyos, and they're just rotating back and forth between all these different exercises. His cardio's off the charts, and he's like, "That's it." It's the- it- that's the game plan. The game plan is you put heat on them with technique and athleticism and tech- and, and strategy. When you put heat on 'em, they can't keep up. They just can't, 'cause they're not, they're not gonna work that hard. If you get to that level of fitness, like, you can have this extra thing that other people just don't have. And Cedric Doumbé has that extra thing. But can he wrestle? Like, is he gonna be able to stuff takedowns? How, how are these guys gonna deal with getting him to the ground? Because as you're moving in on him, you could get- any second you could get knocked unconscious. He could come outta nowhere, and he might just take a wild shot at you because he doesn't wanna get taken down. Maybe he just- maybe he says, "Let's see. Let me just throw a head kick." You know? It's like, I like watching that too. I, I love watching someone like yourself. I love watching these MMA fighters of today. They're these full, complete artists. Watch- get his- some of his highlights. Not the training highlights, but I know he's been doing a lot of, uh, MMA training. But go to his kickboxing highlights. His kickboxing highlights are preposterous. He's a bad man. And he's got some vicious knockouts. And he's just clever in there. He's just clever. I love the- and he's fighting- that guy's Nicky Holzken, who's a beast. I mean, Doumbé is in constant pressure. Like, you don't get breaks with him.

Gillian Robertson 51:36 I- uh-

Joe Rogan 51:36 If you get a break, it's because he wants you to have a break. (laughs) I mean, he just swarms on dudes.

Gillian Robertson 51:42 I just feel like if you look at that pressure in MMA, it's like, it would be impossible to maintain with- with the variable of takedowns.

Joe Rogan 51:49 Look at that sl-

Gillian Robertson 51:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:50 Just hit that- it would be impossible.

Gillian Robertson 51:51 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:51 You're, you're true. It's absolutely- Watch this when he- when he misses. Look at this. Huh...

Gillian Robertson 51:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:59 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 51:59 Just chilling.

Joe Rogan 51:59 He's actually a comedian.

Gillian Robertson 52:01 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 52:01 He's a comedian in France.

Gillian Robertson 52:03 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 52:04 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 52:04 Good (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 52:05 It's crazy.

Gillian Robertson 52:05 It's crazy, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:06 And he's one of the best kickboxers alive. Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 52:09 Multi-talented. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:10 M- very multi-talented. Super funny guy too. And he- w- you know, if he can figure out the grappling, my, my qu- my question is always like, is it better to be well-rounded or is it better to be a specialist? It used- I used to think it'd be better to be a specialist wrestler. I felt like, and I still think that to a certain extent, that at least the base beginning of amateur wrestling, those guys seem to be the toughest. They seem to be- they have the most mental fortitude. The grind of becoming a successful wrestler is unlike any other athletic pursuit that I ever ch- I only wrestled in high school for one year. It was one of the hardest things in my life. (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 52:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:44 It's fucking hard. But these guys are- it's- particularly good at the most important thing, getting the fight to the ground and getting on top of people, right? That's the number one thing. Those guys are the best at it. So, I feel like that's like the cornerstone. But every fight does start standing up. And so then you get a guy like Mirko Cro Cop who figures out how to stuff takedowns, and now you're dealing with one of the most elite kickboxers alive. And it's horrifying. Right? So, it's-

Gillian Robertson 53:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:11 I always wonder, like, what is the best approach? Do you think it's to be a fully rounded mixed martial artist, putting all your time in all these different things? Or do you think maybe there's some room for the idea of like the world champion specialist?

Gillian Robertson 53:27 I think it's best to, uh, focus on everything, try to make yourself a mixed martial artist. I think if you are a specialist to begin with, say, like, uh, someone like him, who is a world, uh, world champion kickboxer, you probably shouldn't be investing ti- like, all your time into jujitsu at that point. You should probably stay the specialist, you know? Like, go to MMA and, like, learn how to defend takedowns. You shouldn't be learning, like, how to finish arm bars necessarily, you know?

Joe Rogan 53:54 Right.

Gillian Robertson 53:54 Puting a gi on day one. It's like, you don't need to learn that at this point. You should focus on what you're good at. But if you are day one, I think you should, like, focus on everything and putting everything all together, 'cause it's like, I can have someone who is a better wrestler than me, but I can guarantee you they won't, won't want to stay in my guard. You know?

Joe Rogan 54:12 Right.

Gillian Robertson 54:12 It's like, uh, and I- for me es- especially, I think the two most important are striking and jujitsu because they are the finishing elements. So, it's like, those are the ways I can take people out of the fight, whereas, like, wrestling, I can control a little bit more, but it- I don't have any finishing options.

Joe Rogan 54:28 Well, that's a, a brilliant way of looking at it. I think you're right. I think if you're starting from the beginning, I think learning everything would be very advantageous, 'cause you wouldn't want to think you're, you know... you, you wouldn't want to think you're safer than you are, and then someone takes you down at will, and you're like, "Oh, Jesus."

Gillian Robertson 54:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:42 You know, like, if you just learn martial arts, like striking martial arts, and you don't know-

Gillian Robertson 54:45 Maybe I should learn jujitsu. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:47 Yeah, maybe I need to learn a little bit of this stuff.

Gillian Robertson 54:48 That's probably not the moment to learn. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:50 No. But I do think there's, there's some room for people that- at least if you come... Maybe it's a, like, if you get to a certain age. Maybe at a certain age, you, you must go all in on all MMA. But if you could be a specialist early in your life, like, if you were a specialist in striking, I think, maybe early in your life, you would have a... Like, if you look at all the best kickboxers and even all the best boxers, for the most part, a lot of them start when they're very young. It seems to be, like, striking, for some reason. I think there's freaks. There's, there's people that just learn it, and, and even when they're in their 30s, they can learn it and they get really good at it. But for a lot of people, there's something about the timing of striking that if you don't pick it up when you're really young, you don't really achieve this sort of- there's, like, a plateau for a lot of folks. Have you ever noticed that?

Gillian Robertson 55:36 Uh, I don't- for me, I'm like, I don't- striking has never been, like, my (laughs) fort- I started striking before I started jujitsu. It's just jujitsu just clicked for me. Striking, I feel like it just takes that little bit more of, like, athleticism, I guess-

Joe Rogan 55:50 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 55:50 ... where it's like, I, I'm not the most athletic fighter. So, it's like, I feel like I can't really use my mind to just make quicker decisions in striking as much as I can in, uh, jujitsu, where it's easier to do. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:03 Well, that's a brilliant way to do it. I, I think, you know, especially for your mind and your, your approach, that-... striking is just a means to an end, right? Y- you're just trying t- you're just-

Gillian Robertson 56:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:15 ... trying to strangle people.

Gillian Robertson 56:16 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's ... Uh, like, I'm not gonna say I'm never gonna have a knockout, 'cause obviously I want ... That's the goal, is to be able to develop power. But it's just ... It's so much easier for, like, a heavyweight to just throw his fists and knock somebody out. Where someone, a girl, uh, like, any of the 25-ers, 15-ers, the smaller girls, it's like, it's really hard to develop that kind of power unless you're born with it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:38 Well, w- uh, that's why Valentina's so scary.

Gillian Robertson 56:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:42 Valentina Shevchenko, when she landed that, uh, head kick on Jessica Eye, I was like, "Ooh." That was nasty.

Gillian Robertson 56:50 Oh, yeah. Nasty knockouts like that with girls-

Joe Rogan 56:52 Oh.

Gillian Robertson 56:52 ... I feel like it's just ... They're not common, so when you see them, it's like you gotta have respect for that girl. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:57 Yeah. Well, Valentina, that fucking left high kick. Holy shit. And she set it up to the body before that. She's so good, and she's always, like, light on her toes, you know. Her style is so interesting. You know, it's a very ... It's ... Like, when she ... You know, she lost the title now, obviously, and I would love to see the rematch 'cause th- the fight was awesome, but if you look at her, like, the best moments in her career, she's, like, always moving, always on her toes, perfect technique with striking.

Gillian Robertson 57:28 Oh, yeah. She's rarely out of position.

Joe Rogan 57:30 Mm-mm.

Gillian Robertson 57:30 I feel like that's one of the things I've always admired about her, is like it's, it's hard to do what Alexa did-

Joe Rogan 57:36 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 57:36 ... is to be able to get her out of position and be able to capitalize on it. Get her to, like, mentally not be there for a split second and be able to see that opportunity.

Joe Rogan 57:44 Isn't it crazy that she did it off a spinning back kick?

Gillian Robertson 57:47 I- It's ... I, I feel like Valentina was just kinda like, "This chick won't go away."

Joe Rogan 57:52 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 57:52 "I thought this was gonna be easier," and she started making, like, n- not the smartest decisions.

Joe Rogan 57:57 You really think that's what happened?

Gillian Robertson 57:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:58 You don't think maybe it was just fatigue?

Gillian Robertson 58:00 I think a little bit that, but a little bit of frustration maybe, too.

Joe Rogan 58:03 Mm-hmm.

Gillian Robertson 58:03 Just, like, sh- Valentina was winning the fight and had a lot of good opportunities, but Alexa ... Like, Alexa was the only one walking in there knowing that she w- is gonna win that fight no matter what that night. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:14 Well, is that real? Can you know th- that you're gonna win no matter what? You can have that attitude. She ... You could say afterwards, "I knew I was gonna win no matter what."

Gillian Robertson 58:24 Uh.

Joe Rogan 58:24 But, eh, there's ... That's two world titles that were essentially lost to a spinning back kick miss. Do you ever see, uh, Chris Weidman ... The ... When, uh, when Chris Mi- Weid- Weidman fought Luke Rockhold, he was winning the fight, it was like a really good fight, and then he throws a spinning back kick, and he misses, and Luke Rockhold takes him to the ground and beats the fuck out of him, and it was a horrible beating. It was, it was a w- a really dominant performance by Rockhold. It was hard to watch. And that ... He lost the title. And then you look at Valentina, same thing. Spinning back kick, misses. Alexa Grasso gets her, gets her back, chokes her. Crazy. It's like two world titles on a spinning back kick miss.

Gillian Robertson 59:09 I feel like it's just like ... I don't ... It wasn't a smart thing, it was just like a lapse of thought for her for that second where she was just like, "All right. I'm gonna throw this," and A- Alexa just capitalized. She saw the opportunity and took it.

Joe Rogan 59:22 Well, if she landed it, then it would've been something different. She has a nasty spinning back kick. She really does. So this is, uh, Weidman, uh, they were in the middle of this fight. Weidman was moving forward on Rockhold. And this is when Weidman was the fucking man. This was a tough fight. Very tough fight. But Weidman's putting all this pressure on him, kicks him to the body, looks like he's putting it to him, head kick.

Narrator 59:48 It's right here.

Joe Rogan 59:49 So right there. Right there. One ... He- it's like he's beating him up, like he's big brother-ing him, right? And he throws a lazy wheel kick, and he gets taken down. And now Luke Rockhold's a motherfucker on the ground. And that boy's big. Luke Rockhold's big. You know, he weighs 185 for about 15 seconds.

Gillian Robertson 1:00:09 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 He's, he's well into the 200s, I'm sure, when he's fighting. He's a big fella, big, long, strong as shit, with crazy top pressure. And so here you go. Weidman's exhausted now and, uh, can't believe he's in this position. It's a terrible position to be in. I mean, you talk ... Rockhold's training with DC, he's training with Khabib, he's training with all those people down there, all those animals in AKA. Cain Velasquez. It's just a savage soup down there in AKA.

Gillian Robertson 1:00:34 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 And so Ru- ... Luke Rockhold, people forget, you know, y- people see some of his losses and see him in the, uh, later stages of his career. When Luke Rockhold was a champ, and this right here that he won the title, this motherfucker had staph. He came into this fight on antibiotics. He'd just gotten over staph. You know how hard it is to get o- over ... A- antibiotics fuck you up. And to be winning this fight in this way, is inf- fuckin' credible. And all off of Weidman missing one shot, really. Look, I mean, he's just beating the shit out of him. It's hard to watch, man, because Weidman is, like, really kinda helpless at this point, and he's so battered from these elbows that it's like ... And he's too tough. He's so tough.

Gillian Robertson 1:01:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 The guy will never quit. And so this is, this is one where I'm like, "Maybe this could've been stopped earlier," You could stop this at any second-

Gillian Robertson 1:01:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 ... right here. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't you think?

Narrator 1:01:25 I think it keeps going too. I think they kept going.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 Bro, this is crazy.

Narrator 1:01:27 Oh, no. It's about to.

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 This is crazy.

Narrator 1:01:28 That might've been the round.

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 Unbelievable punishment dished out. By Luke Rock-

Narrator 1:01:34 I think it was the round even. I think they keep going 'cause-

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 What?

Narrator 1:01:37 ... it was ... Yeah, yeah.

Gillian Robertson 1:01:38 Oh, my gosh. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 What?

Narrator 1:01:39 Again with that kick-

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 Luke Rockhold-

Narrator 1:01:40 ... to the body by Weidman.

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 It went on after that. That's right. That's right. And it gets ... Oh, my God. It happens again, though. ... extremely tough to be right now.

Narrator 1:01:47 Yeah, he continues it.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 It happens again. That's right. After that last round- Oh. How tough is Chris Weidman? That motherfucker's so tough. Whoo.

Gillian Robertson 1:01:58 That was-

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 But sometimes careers can change off of one missed technique, which is one of the wildest things about MMA. Careers can change.

Gillian Robertson 1:02:05 Okay. Anything can happen at anything- at any moment. I feel like it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Yeah.

Gillian Robertson 1:02:09 ... it ... Like he's saying, you can go in and you can be a better striker than the person. You can just get caught. It can be their night. They can show up better. It's like there's a lot of my fights where it's like I feel like I am the better fighter, but they showed up that night. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 ... it's, uh, e- but- it's- is it al- it's always a learning process, though, right? Like, every experience that you have, you're putting into your, your mental database about how to deal with different conditions, how to deal with different thoughts that come in your head?

Gillian Robertson 1:02:34 Oh, yeah, I- I feel like it's a huge learning process. And, for me, I think, like, I didn't really get a lot of regional experience, you know? I was three and two when I g- came into the Tough House.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 Wow.

Gillian Robertson 1:02:45 So, I'm going on... My next fight will be my 15th UFC fight.

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 So you go three and two, Tough House, and then Liverpool.

Gillian Robertson 1:02:53 Yeah, exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 1:02:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 That's so crazy! Oh my God, what a wild ride.

Gillian Robertson 1:03:01 Yeah, so a lot of my learning experience was in the UFC.

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 In the UFC in front of the whole world?

Gillian Robertson 1:03:05 Yeah, exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 Chris Weidman, when he knocked out Anderson Silva, that was another one of those, "Uh, how did that happen? What- what is going on?" moments, where, like, everybody thought that Anderson Silva was untouchable at that point. That was that moment where, you know, you realize, like, this sport is nuts. Even the people that you think are the greatest of all time, they can get cracked and knocked unconscious. Like, it ha- like, Leon Edwards, when he knocked out Kamaru Usman in the last round, like, "What? What? Kamaru?" When he lands that head kick and you see Kamaru, who's, like, one of the most durable guys that's ever lived, he gets cracked, he gets back up, he seems fine always in every fight. And this one, he gets put out? It almost seemed surreal, like when Tyson got knocked out by Buster Douglas. Like, "What?" Like, "What is happening?"

Gillian Robertson 1:03:49 It's crazy. It's like, like you say, you can be the better fighter, you could beat- win that fight nine out of 10 times, and then just that one time is that night, is that- that's what happens. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Especially at a high level, right?

Gillian Robertson 1:03:59 Especially at a high level. It's like you can't make any kind of mistake. It- it's like on a regional level, say you make a little mistake, but they're not gonna capitalize on it 'cause they're just- they're not smart enough, m- maybe, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 1:04:10 It's like, uh, uh, a lot of- or, like, whatever it is, but then once you get up to a high level, it's like, "These people are good." If you make that one little mistake, then you're getting knocked out, you're getting subbed, you don't have those kinda opportunities. So, it- it's definitely a, a learning experience there. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 There's also the difference between people that, that are fighting that train and people that train like you train. There, there's a big difference. The fact that you do it constantly and consistently is just such an advantage, I believe. Uh, 'cause y- you know, I mean, I know it just from training in jujitsu. Even when I was training like four days a week, like really regularly, I would be in- with those guys that are training five, six, seven days a week, and they would be getting better than me. Like, I- and I knew it. You could tell. Y- there was- it's in your head. Like, "Okay, do you wanna go psycho and be here seven days a week? Or do you wanna try to live a life?" Like, how are you gonna balance this? You know, 'cause they're gonna get better than you. It's impossible to stop. It's just a thing that people do. If you can dedicate enough time and focus on- to something over long periods of time, if you really stay true to it, you get better and better and better.

Gillian Robertson 1:05:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 And when I see someone like yourself that does that and goes from the Tough House and goes to that fight in Liverpool, to me, that's, like, one of the great American success stories. That was fucking... I mean, that's really amazing. It's an amazing thing to be, uh, this person who was a socially awkward kid, and then all of a sudden you strangle some girl in her hometown in front of the whole world in this crazy arena. Like, that's wild.

Gillian Robertson 1:05:39 Oh, no, it- it's 100%, everything is surreal about it to me. So-

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 Absolutely.

Gillian Robertson 1:05:44 It's like... Uh, for me, it's like I'm just a kid who loves this shit. I love this sport and that's about it. I love showing up every day, I love going to the gym every day. And it's like even on my bad days, it's better than going to any other job. Like, I love training more than anything else. Like, I can always remember it's like I've worked at vet's offices, I worked at Chili's right before I got into the Tough House, and I'm like, "There's... My worst days at the gym are betti- better than any day I had to go to one of those jobs."

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 1:06:11 Like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 Of course.

Gillian Robertson 1:06:12 I remember, like, getting off of a shift at Chili's, getting off of a, a, a shift at the vet's office working, like, 10 hours a day and just going straight to the gym, and there's nothing better than the feeling of the mats underneath your feet. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 Wow.

Gillian Robertson 1:06:25 ... that's just what I love more than anything. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 You can't beat that kind of dedication. That dedication trumps everything, 'cause even if you're really, really disciplined, you're enthusiastic, too. Like, th- there's- y- like, discipline will get you through, like, a, a five-mile run, you know, but, like, it's not gonna l- you're not gonna learn as much just with discipline. Like, you kinda g- enthusiasm and discipline is really the right combination. You can't just be disciplined and just kinda trudge through it, because the person that's more interested in it, that's more passionate about, more excited about it, that person's more jazzed up. They're gonna learn it quicker, and they're gonna put it on you quicker. It's like it's the ultimate testing ground for ideas and focus.

Gillian Robertson 1:07:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 It really is.

Gillian Robertson 1:07:05 I don't get people who don't train outta camp. If they're like, "Oh, yeah, I took, like, a month off," or something, like, "What did you do?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 (laughs) Do you do anything other than train? Like, what is- what is-

Gillian Robertson 1:07:15 Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 ... fun time?

Gillian Robertson 1:07:16 Th- uh, nothing really.

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 No hobbies, no nothing? You don't play golf, nothing?

Gillian Robertson 1:07:21 Uh, uh, I have like a- like, I live in Miami, so it's like I'll go out, like, paddle boarding sometimes, things like that. Uh, but that's really it. Like, training is so much of my life, and I feel like it's like a lot of the times I'm not training, I just don't wanna do anything 'cause I'm tired. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 Makes sense.

Gillian Robertson 1:07:38 I'm exhausted from training. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Yeah, I think Mas Oyama said that about his karate students. I think th- they were talking about why they don't... I think it's Mas Oyama. They- it's not that they're more noble, they're tired from training.

Gillian Robertson 1:07:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 Something like that. I might've fucked- I- I'm pretty sure I fucked that up. But, yeah, it's- if you're training all the time, like, that's why street fights seem so stupid, you know? Like, oh my God, that's, like, more training. Like, fuck, get outta here.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:03 Yeah, exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 More training with danger and weapons.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:07 Yeah. No, like, I don't- I don't get how people are so confident to get in street fights ever.

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 Crazy, right?

Gillian Robertson 1:08:12 And like it's- that's, like you said, without weapons, like, that's a crazy thing to me. You don't know when somebody has a weapon, you don't-

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 They shoot people. People shoot people. Just be nice.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 Let's not fight.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:21 Exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:22 (laughs) There's so many fucking loons out there, though. Have you, uh, ever had, uh, like a girl come to the gym specifically to try to train with you?

Gillian Robertson 1:08:32 Uh, to come train with me, yeah, definitely. Uh, I train at a smaller gym, uh, the Goat Shed in Miami. So it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:08:37 That is a wild place that you train at.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:40 Yeah, it is. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 I love that you train there.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:42 Uh, my c-

Joe Rogan 1:08:43 Those, those fellas are wild.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:44 Yeah, my coach, Austin, h- he has, like, a controlled chaos going on in there. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:49 But they're getting good.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:51 Oh, yeah, we, uh, it-

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 Everybody's getting good.

Gillian Robertson 1:08:52 Like I said, we're there at 8:00 AM, 10:00 AM, 11:00 AM, then I'm doing cardio after. Everybody's there focused, working. It's like, I feel like people see all the, the crazy shit online and don't think we're actually training, we're actually working. But it's like, there's so much technical, like, ability that's behind all the chaos that you guys see.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 Oh, yeah. No, for sure. There's, there... You could see that on Instagram. Y- but if... To the casual observer, I see what you're saying. But the, the infectious energy in that gym is so apparent that it comes out through Instagram. Like that's how you know it's a legit gym.

Gillian Robertson 1:09:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 It's a little, a little wild.

Gillian Robertson 1:09:26 Bas Ro- uh, Rutin seminar.

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 Bas Rutan. Basito. He was just here.

Gillian Robertson 1:09:32 Yeah, he was there at-

Joe Rogan 1:09:32 He's the fucking man.

Gillian Robertson 1:09:33 ... last week I wanna say, we had a seminar.

Joe Rogan 1:09:36 He's the fucking man. I love that dude. Oh, God. Some girl had her legs open. I don't know what that was all about.

Gillian Robertson 1:09:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:45 I don't... Don't look at that one, Jamie.

Gillian Robertson 1:09:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:48 Yeah, Miami's a wild ass place.

Narrator 1:09:50 It's actually not a bad post.

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 It's not?

Narrator 1:09:52 It's clever.

Gillian Robertson 1:09:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 It's clever?

Narrator 1:09:53 She's selling classes.

Joe Rogan 1:09:54 Oh, you click it and it's something else?

Narrator 1:09:56 Yeah, I do too.

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 Oh, she's selling sunglasses (laughs) . Oh, classes.

Gillian Robertson 1:10:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:00 (laughs)

Gillian Robertson 1:10:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:01 That's just genius.

Gillian Robertson 1:10:03 You gotta entice them, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:10:04 Yeah, there's a lot of dirty people out there.

Gillian Robertson 1:10:05 Get the clickbait. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:06 Like, "Mm-hmm." What do you think about fighters starting Only Fans? Is that nuts?

Gillian Robertson 1:10:12 Uh, yeah, I- I don't know. It- it's not my thing, definitely. Like, obviously like I have friends who do it and things like that, but