Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #148 with Bernard Hopkins

Joe sits down with Bernard Hopkins, a retired professional boxer who held multiple world championships, including the lineal light heavyweight and undisputed middleweight.

Joe RoganhostBernard Hopkinsguest
Jun 27, 20242h 59mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 15:00

    (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. NA

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience. (drumbeats)

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) We're here. What's up?

    4. BH

      Hey.

    5. JR

      Pleasure to meet you, man. I've been a gigantic fan of yours for a long time, so-

    6. BH

      Yeah, yeah.

    7. JR

      ... it's a real pleasure.

    8. BH

      That's what I've been hearing, uh, um, Joe, but, you know, I'm also become a fan in the last couple of years, uh, before you came to Austin. Um, uh, I go out to LA a lot, uh, to do boxing promoting in West Coast, East Coast, with our Golden Boy Promotion, um, partner, Oscar De La Hoya. So, um, good to be met, and good to meet you also.

    9. JR

      What is it like transitioning from being a fighter to being a promoter? 'Cause, uh, Oscar, yourself, Floyd, only a few fighters have, have managed to do that successfully like you have.

    10. BH

      Well, first of all, it's not just walking into it. Uh, I sort of got groomed in my career, um, based on, um, I'll say the last eight, nine years of my 30-year career. Um, I took on a- the, the ownership and responsibility of making the last decisions. I hired people that can give me the right information. Um, not a lot, but just a few people that can give me the right information about this particular fight. For instance, Kelly Pavlik in Atlantic City, um, Oscar De La Hoya fight, in '06, '07. Um, and- and I groomed myself for this moment, to be able to be independent, but also learn the business. And let me tell you, it is difficult. It's difficult not doing a job, uh, per se, but it's difficult in the business, in the structure of- of- of the business of boxing. Um, (laughs) the- the- the small family in boxing, whether they're here, there, in a promotional setting or commissioner setting, uh, they will definitely try to discourage you by any means necessary.

    11. JR

      Yeah, I can imagine, especially yourself, 'cause you had had so many issues with promoters over the years and you were so vocal about it, unlike a lot of other fighters.

    12. BH

      Yeah, um, I mean, because I was, one, a- one, forced to do it, uh, to- to- to fight back. And then second, uh, I looked at it as, um, I didn't really have a choice, even though I could have laid down, but I- or got down, uh, to- to their, uh, demands. But I understood one thing, uh, my instincts of survival, but also not just being, um, in the game. I wanted different for myself. And I had one bad experience. Well, I had a couple of bad experiences, but I had one... The first bad experience I had early in my career, um, and I wound up, uh, getting out of that deal, um, with Butch Lewis. And I can mention names, not because he's deceased, but I can mention it because I wound up being actually sued based on keeping me in check. But I fired back, and I wound up, you know, uh, counterpunching and got out of that situation and spoke boldly about it and moved on to try to wake others up. Not actually preach, but just bring it up about my situation, if anybody recognized and experienced it, any fighter or anybody else, they can grab some knowledge. But- but that was the start of it. That was the start of it. My first professional fight, not first, but my first championship fight was Roy Jones Jr., and that fight was a parity fight. It was a split, 1.4 split between me and Roy Jones. I have the contract, I kept all the stuff, even to the day. I can go back and reflect and bring not only cont- uh, content, uh, uh, for what I'm speaking about, but I kept it because I paid for it. It's called litigation. And so I said to myself, "How can it be a number, 750, 725 split, parity, uh, the word parity, and I get 80,000 when it's all said and done?" Now, to remind you, I'm fresh out of the penitentiary, '88, '89, '90, '90, I- I rebooted my career after, you know, losing my first fight. S- didn't box for 15 months. So now we in the, what, you know, early '90s, and I rebooted myself back into, uh, reaching a goal that I eventually, uh, reached. But the business part, it- it- it- it- it had me thinking in between those- those moments of c-climbing the ladder or being a contender, uh, that this is more than just going to the ring and winning and not winning. This was something that I had to learn quick, uh, on the job learning.

    13. JR

      There's a lot of shenanigans in boxing.

    14. BH

      Um, yes.

    15. JR

      You were, you were-

    16. BH

      I mean, you got a sport, Joe-

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. BH

      ... you got a sport that's unregulated, right? Whether that means anything to people or not, but there's no checks and balances there. The people that setting the rules break the rules. I'm gonna say that again. The people that set the rules break the rules. I mean, you know, you- you- you... (phone rings) Where- where- where can you...

    19. JR

      Is that that thing that they said was gonna go off?

    20. NA

      Yeah, yeah, I figured that-

    21. JR

      This is the- this is-

    22. BH

      Oh, this is happening.

    23. JR

      This is happening, cellphones and all that.

    24. NA

      Make sure it's not a real problem.

    25. JR

      Okay. National test. (phone rings)

    26. NA

      I just got mine too.

    27. JR

      This is a national test.

    28. NA

      Okay, all right.

    29. BH

      See, that- that-

    30. NA

      So you know the bombs are dropping.

  2. 15:00 – 30:00

    (laughs) That was the…

    1. BH

      the world is not just Raymond Rosen projects. So I start understanding now, like even sitting there watching at that time how the fork and the spoon and the butter knife is on one side of the table. (laughs) And I'm looking, "Look, this guy's taking a nap and putting it on the floor. I think he's putting it on his, his lap." I mean, this might sound igno- ignorant, but you gotta understand from that mindset of what I'm saying, not understand my experience, 'cause some haven't, but I start paying attention. That was the key. Just like in the boxing business, I start paying attention. Then once I got to the point where I had a voice, means I had to do something in boxing. Nobody cares if you're considered nobody. Uh, 10-1, 'cause I lost my first fight in Atlantic City to Clinton Mitchell. I was out for nine months, o- out of penitentiary. I wanted to get right back in the ring before I grab a kilo to cocaine like everybody was selling in the '80s and '90s.

    2. NA

      (laughs) That was the plan?

    3. BH

      I had a choice to do one or the other.

    4. NA

      Right.

    5. BH

      Ei- everybody... Listen, anybody on... West Coast and East Coast know the '80 and the '90 era, right? The, the '80 and '90 era in urban city was get down or lay down. Are you in or are you out? That's all across the board. And, and growing up being the guy named Heads. Yeah, my nickname.

    6. NA

      That was Heads?

    7. BH

      Strictly Heads, yeah. When you see me coming, I had the same energy, I had the same discipline. And this is gonna sound weird. The same discipline that people might think they know me over the years, fans, non-fans, and people that do know me, is the same discipline I had in a negative way. That's... that really... again, not trying to paint my... the, the work is there. I'm pretty sure if they go in the archives of any police district or whatever, or, or archives in City Hall down in Philadelphia, they can... or Harrisburg (laughs) those records never go away. They might... they think they might have to bring them up one day, but I won't let it happen. Not on my watch. So, I took all that experience, and it seemed like a long time ago, but it felt like to me, I lived three different times on this earth and I ain't even bring up the two stabbings that I wear the scar today from the back and one underneath my left, uh, uh, chest.So there's a lot of times, never been shot, that I could have done something, be the lamb or be the wolf, and I recognized to be the wolf is much better than being a lamb. That the person I took stuff from, that I went up and looked through 'em while they looking at me, coulda had a gun and blew my brains out. Which I've lost a brother under... a year under me, Michael. I'm 58, he'd have been 57. His birthday was January 29th, 1966. Mine's January 15th, 1965. Got a older sister, she's only a year older. February 14th, 1964. My mother been in labor for three years in a row.

    8. NA

      Wow.

    9. BH

      With six kids. When it's all said and done, my mother raised six kids. But I was raised... I was, like, raising three, maybe four. If you ask her, if she was here, God rest her soul. But she got a chance. And I'm... Thank you for letting me ramble on. She got a chance to see, in person, my talents that she always knew I had since I was a angry bad boy in elementary school, 'cause she'd been up there a lot of times, teachers' meetings. She got a chance to see me beat Felix Trinidad, 9/11, in New York City. Just had an anniversary months ago. Well, last month. She got a chance to fly in the air for the first time, whether it's commercial or jet, both. She got a chance to visit places that she didn't have any dream of doing it. I gave that to her. And she passed in '50... I believe '59, '58. I lost... Might be off a year, but my mother passed before 60, she was young. Here I feel great knocking on 59, she was already gone. But every time I've done something and she know I did it, never even asked me, she showed up. Whether it's a visit, whether it's $10 on the books, she never gave up on me, she never turned her back, even though she always threatened me with the, "This is the last time."

    10. NA

      Mm.

    11. BH

      Now, she might've waited two or three days, but eventually she came and did all she can, whether it's taking a second or third mortgage out on the house to bail me out with a three or $400 or $1,000 bail bondsman. Come on, y'all. Like, until it's over, what I mean by that is, the breath in your body, then it's never really over. Now, if you let somebody tell you it's over, if you let them plan your funeral based on what you can and cannot do. I'm sitting here in front of Joe Rogan. How many people told you it was nuts-

    12. NA

      Question.

    13. BH

      ... to, to do what came... Yeah, it is a question, but came to fruition in your life?

    14. NA

      Yeah.

    15. BH

      I'm pretty sure you had a lot of smart, so-called, and some of 'em were. They didn't see what I seen. They didn't see what you seen. Question on both sides. I know I'm a testimony to it. And I'm pretty sure, 'cause I done some research, I'll always like to know who I'm talking to once I got some knowledge of who I am and who I need to be, uh, affiliated with, business or non-business. It just gives me a upper hand to know, uh, what I'm facing and what I'm not facing. I'm always into fight mode, but I don't have to fight. It's here and then it's the physical. The Art of War, Sun Tzu, uh, I challenge everybody to get one of those, uh, teaching books and go through it every now and then. The Art of War has always been a guideline for me. When I say always, most of my adult career. I'd say from 23 to now. I started pro at 25. When I told you how people try to write your own destiny, where you're going to the grave or to success because you said it, I give 'em the middle finger. I give 'em the middle finger, not physically, I give 'em the middle finger in action, in deeds, which holds a lot more weight.

    16. NA

      It does hold a lot more weight.

    17. BH

      And I wanted to let them know that.

    18. NA

      So when you... You got to prison at 17?

    19. BH

      Yes, certification.

    20. NA

      And did you get serious about boxing then? Did you-

    21. BH

      No.

    22. NA

      Was that, like, your outlet?

    23. BH

      No. The, the first year, I ran around the, the jail. When I mean running around the jail, I was basically an inmate. Y4145. I basically... I knew people, I didn't know certain people, and you literally... you, you, you, you, you team up with the people you know in your neighborhood. Uh, that's important. That's important to have, what? Backup, right? You must have that, right?... the Asians was there, the Caucasians was there, the Muslims was there, the Christians was there. Everybody had sets. So you need that. Now, once you get there, somebody know you and somebody will know why you're there and what you're there for. Now, you could say you're there for one thing, but the same people that checks you in, basically, with the guard watching over them, know your whole case. They basically do the work that inmates, nine out of ten, they lifers, who's been there and then they moved up in the ranks because of their clean record in the institution. And they'll look at it, "Oh, he said he got a robbery, but he got a rape." He's saying, "He got a homicide, but he got auto theft."

    24. NA

      Hmm.

    25. BH

      So the credibility, crazy as it might sound, the credibility of which you there for lays, not all said and done, but it lays a foundation how they approach you.

    26. NA

      Hmm.

    27. BH

      And, and, and, and, yo, listen. Even in county, before you get state time, you gotta be in the county, you go back and forth to court, and over 12 months is considered state time. One and a half to five, state time. That's that half that got you to state. It's a different ballgame at Grady 4 State Penitentiary. Maximum security. It's a different ballgame. Knowing somebody, whether they know your uncles or my dad, Bernard Sr., or anybody else in the neighborhood, "I know your father. That's, I remember we used to fight in the projects." Okay. S- s- do you really? Like, you like, is this guy really legit? You gotta find that out whenever. You ain't gonna find out there. You gotta find out later. These are the th- and it could be legit. But these are the things that I've learned. And, and, and most of 'em, the stuff that I know that, in time, it would help me once I got out and once I reached certain level in life, that I need to know certain things, and I got the schooling in that situation, penitentiary. Because, to me, I'm in a penitentiary in society, just don't have a wall. I don't have a wall here, in my, when I'm pointing here, I mean mentally, and I don't have a wall physically where I can see it. But I know for a fact that being in this position that I've been in for 28 years, this is rounding off three decades, based on the sweet science in the ring, when I started and when I retired, six, seven years ago. As I witness and as I experience that first half of, that first part of life that I just said I l- it's felt like I lived three or two or three lives, is helping me now. Because when you're in a position where people think they can go on the internet and think they can find out how much you're worth, what you're not worth. Now, your CPA, your certifying accountant know who you're worth, know who you are. That's your DNA when it comes to business, especially if you got a, a, a good one, the right one.

    28. NA

      Hmm.

    29. BH

      So you get approached with all kinds of agendas. And also you get the ones, sometimes you get the spirit that come, and people that comes thinking that, you know, "Hmm." No matter how you sound and all that, and I'm not trying to sound smart. How you sound smart, what that mean? Certain words you say, tell me the definition of it. Boxing always will have a stigma, and I hate to say it but it's true, 90% of it. We trust, as a fighter, too many people that say that they are who they are, and we give them a pass that they are what they say they are. Because of that experience that I just broke down to you just now, it prepared me without having any knowledge it will, until I recognized it. Being awareness, having awareness. If I didn't have that experience that I just spoke about, for 20 plus minutes, I would be swallowed up like most of 'em. I hear the Tyson stories even when he was on the show, been around him, fought on undercard many times in Vegas at the MGM. No, Mandalay Bay. MGM wasn't even there when I fought on the undercard. And I hear, and a lot of other names, and I say to myself... They say game recognize game, how you gonna e- how you gonna con an ex-con convict?

  3. 30:00 – 45:00

    (laughs) …

    1. BH

      Don't you know I had to talk to get off the block? I am not going to where I say I'm going, I just wanna get off the block. Now if I get off the block based on that guard letting me off because I say I'm going somewhere that I'm not really going-... you build up a skill setting on how to deal with people that you need to deal with. The danger come in is when you do it to everybody. The benefits of it when you in front of somebody that you know is full of shit, that you know is looking right at you lying, and you're saying to yourself, "How long this conversation gonna take to be over?" But being in the position that I've put myself through, nobody gave me anything. I have to have patience even though I don't have to or I don't want to at that moment, because society of what you done, it becomes such great entertainment and historic. You get the stamp that you a celebrity and you bigger than God. I'm a believer. I don't shy, I don't push it on nobody, I don't bring it up just to bring it up in a conversation to say what I agree to disagree. So I believe in checks and balances. I believe in all these things that deal with my situation to balance out, things that need to be balanced. That keeps me on point to know who I am. A lot of things I won't forget and a lot of things I will, on purpose. On purpose. So, I, I realized one thing, Joe. I realized this. All I do now is being written or gonna be written down as I go. But when it's over, that story no longer be written by me. It'll be written by somebody else. I don't want that.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. BH

      No. You know what I want?

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. BH

      Why I have this time? To write it myself and have the awareness to keep me not just in check, but mindful that every step I make, every accomplishment, every failure, every obstacle, every challenge, whatever it is, I'm gonna stand ten toes down on it at all times. That shows, again, the consistency of Bernard Hopkins Jr. Because anybody that understands and know or follow or know anything about me, 'cause most people don't have the patience to do research. They want somebody to tell them who Joe Rogan is. They want somebody to tell them, most people, who Bernard Hopkins is. I learned not to be in that world of thinking. I learned to do my due diligence before I stepped up to my opponent or adversary, or any other person that breathes the same air of life that I breathe.

    6. JR

      So did you learn this focus and determination and discipline, did you learn this because of prison? Because you wanted to make sure this never happened to you again?

    7. BH

      Absolutely.

    8. JR

      So that, that experience when you were 17, being locked up, that was... And even though it was a horrible situation, pivotal to your, your growth.

    9. BH

      Wh- What do you mean a horrible situation?

    10. JR

      Being in prison.

    11. BH

      No, it wasn't.

    12. JR

      It wasn't horrible?

    13. BH

      No.

    14. JR

      How so?

    15. BH

      Because most of my friends I said was there. Second, I wanted to get out obviously when I got caught. You know, when you get caught by the police or you get locked up, obviously you try and do everything to get out, whether you give a alias name, whether you try to... I didn't do it. But when I got there and I seen that it wasn't like it's promoted on TV per se. Case in point, I had more friends there than I had in the neighborhood that's locked up. Of course they glad to see you because you're locked up with them.

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. BH

      The mindset, Joe. When you there, you're not, you know, you're not thinking... Then, you're thinking every... You got people that's for good reasons looking out for you, which means I got this, you need this, you got this, you got a stinger, we make... You can heat some hot water up and eat some soup, whatever. You learn to survive in that pla- situation. Because I don't believe, and I said this in multiple interviews, multiple interviews. I did a lot of expressing myself over the 28 years of boxing, trust me. It's not hard to find my voice. I under-... Well, I got to understand that without that experience, I wouldn't be here having this conversation with you or anyone else before you, let alone the Hall of Fame, let alone today the oldest athlete. Yeah, got Brady a couple years. That win a major world title, surpassing George Foreman.

    18. JR

      Yeah, you were world class into your 50s. There's only a couple guys like that.

    19. BH

      I was defending my title with 25, 30-year-olds and my 40s.

    20. JR

      Yep.Well, I remember when they wrote you off before the Kelly Pavlik fight. I wrote a blog on my website about that fight, 'cause I was so blown away. 'Cause I remember leading into that fight... Everybody wrote you off, first of all, in the Felix Trinidad fight. They thought you were too old then. How old-

    21. BH

      35.

    22. JR

      35.

    23. BH

      Correct.

    24. JR

      They thought you were over the hill. Felix Trinidad is this young, incredible fighter. There was so much emotions involved, when you went to Puerto Rico and threw the flag on the ground. (laughs) Everybody's chasing you. I mean, you sold the shit out of that fight. It was wild.

    25. BH

      But it wouldn't have sold.

    26. JR

      I know, but it did.

    27. BH

      But it just happened. It did.

    28. JR

      Yeah. It did. But it sold like crazy, and they were writing you off. And you put on a master class. I remember that fight. I remember that fight like it was yesterday.

    29. BH

      Just had the anniversary last month.

    30. JR

      Whew. So, I was always a big fan. And I was a big fan, also, of the fact that you were standing up to the promoters, 'cause I remember the people, like the HBO Boxing people, they didn't like it. They didn't like when you talked about all that stuff. They thought you were wasting their time. But you had an important message. And so people were kinda looking to write you off. So by the time you fought Felix Trinidad, it was one of those crossroads fights, where many people thought Felix Trinidad is gonna become an all-time great. Bernard Hopkins is 35. You know, this'll be a good win for Felix Trinidad. And you just fucking boxed masterfully. It was a beautiful fight.

  4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

    Yes. …

    1. BH

      has to be met with a personality and a discipline no matter what the wind is blowing, which way it is blowing, that I'm not gonna give up. And that's what the threat is, and that's what the fear is. And it's not fear in me personally. It's fear in what I know and what I can do and my consistency to bring the people together, whether they the ones that really mean it, the good politicians, the people that's in the game of boxing, some commissioners, not all, to understand that we need checks and balances in this business, to the least to have law there to, as a structure to honor and go by. And if there's any violation, like anything else, you get chastised for it. You gotta pay. You gotta get punished in so many ways to do it. So boxing, like any other sport in America, is the only sport that's not regulated by any entity other than itself. Hmm. You know, Joe, I used to always say to myself back then, there are so many... When they hear this, they gonna be, "Oh my God." There are so many non-active, non-active, active, excuse me, lawyers in boxing. There's a lot of lawyers or, or, or can be lawyers. They had, they, they went to law school, they got the, the law license, but they don't practice. But they have knowledge of what they can do and what they can't do. Do, do you understand what-

    2. JR

      Yes.

    3. BH

      ... I'm saying?

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. BH

      So already most of us are at a disadvantage, not at advantage, to know to dos and don'ts.

    6. JR

      Right, whether or not you're getting fucked.

    7. BH

      So, so, yes, yes, whether or not we're getting fucked. That's the-

    8. JR

      And most of the time you're getting fucked.

    9. BH

      And mo- 99.9% you're getting fucked.

    10. JR

      When you were saying that the Roy Jones Jr. Fight, there was a 1.4 split and you made 750 or whatever it was, after all that, you, you only brought home 80?

    11. BH

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      How's that possible?

    13. BH

      I had a, I had a contract... Again, this was the ignorance come in.

    14. JR

      Okay.

    15. BH

      Lack of knowledge. I had a contract with a management team that sold me out with the promoter. And the promoter, uh, again, Butch Lewis, uh, God rest his soul, uh, he, uh, somehow, um, convinced my managers at that time, Arisen Boxing, uh, that, uh, he, uh, can do better for them in the long term if fighters come and go. Managers and advisors stay around, whatever name they put themselves under. And so I had a 60/40, remember I said ignorance earlier, I had a 60/40 manager contract. I have it to the day framed in my office.

    16. JR

      That's pretty crazy.

    17. BH

      60/40 manager contract. I kept that contract, I framed it.... so these things, uh, because it shows how far I evolved.

    18. JR

      What's a standard contract?

    19. BH

      The sta-

    20. JR

      What's a fair contract?

    21. BH

      The, the... what you negotiate.

    22. JR

      What is, what is, like, w- what, like, so what is a, a good professional get?

    23. BH

      In, in, in boxing?

    24. JR

      Yeah. Like Jermell Charlo for the Canelo fight.

    25. BH

      I'll s- I'll say, a manager shouldn't get no more, no more than 15% at that level of, of, of Charlo. 10% most of the time, but no more than 15 because he might be doing other stuff and he might got investments in you leading up to that moment.

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. BH

      Right? That, you know, leading up-

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. BH

      ... to that moment. He had you Rio Olympics where he had you straight up fighting at a club fight and you build yourself up to a contender, now you're a championship.

    30. JR

      Yeah.

  5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

    Mm-hmm. …

    1. BH

      me every fight I win. "Uh, but nah, you just did this, you just did that. Ray Robinson couldn't do it and you- you did it." The Tarver fight, jumping up two weight classes. Now, the Charlo brothers, right? You see what he-

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. BH

      ... tried to make history.

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. BH

      Went up to jump two weight classes and fight Canelo. I set records that's still there to be chased. It's a blessing for me to sit back and have fun and- and- and- and- and- and have conversation. But that... but I understood...... again, every moment, every historic moment, every time that I can stay in the game, not because I needed the money. They was paying me very well to leave. They was paying me very well to leave, because of what? I wanted to make sure that I established a historic record, that it would take decades to break 'em. And that's what's happening today or an attempt to happen. And so that, to me, gave me more drive to say, "Ah, I'm gonna stay around one more. I'm gonna chase this dream. I'm gonna chase that gold. I'm gonna make this history 'cause Ray Robinson didn't do it. I'm gonna jump up two weight classes and fight Tarver."

    6. NA

      How old were you when you fought Tarver?

    7. BH

      F- 58... 48, 49.

    8. NA

      You know how crazy that is?

    9. BH

      Yeah.

    10. NA

      So-

    11. BH

      In Atlantic City. Again, this is-

    12. NA

      L- s- how were you able to do that? What- what separates you physically from all those fighters that deteriorated y- young in their career? Is it your defense? Like, is it just technique? Like, what... what-

    13. BH

      It was a combination as a recipe. It was all above. Break 'em down to you. I'm gonna break 'em down to you.

    14. NA

      Okay.

    15. BH

      It was two of those that you mentioned. Discipline, of course. Um, you know, uh, protecting yourself at all times in that ring, even though you're still gonna get hit, but you wanna hit more than you get hit, obviously. The wear and tear. Lifestyle. Joe, the lifestyle outside the ring-

    16. NA

      Mm.

    17. BH

      ... is impeccable. You gotta... you gotta understand the lifestyle and the discipline. Go back to D Block. Let's go back to D Block. Let's go back to running that yard. Yard out, yard in. Let's go back on winning championships in the Graterford Penitentiary. Before I came home, I was a championship in prison. You go to my Instagram, I know they gonna go now, I put up a sparring session with all the inmates outside the ropes watching me spar in the same penitentiary I got paroled from. I have more video that I kept just for my own safekeep, not knowing they're gold today. What kept me in the business of boxing physically was not just my talent. I'm not downplaying it, by no means. Roy Jones was talented than me, Oscar De La Hoya, Trinidad was talented than Bernard Hopkins. "Aw, Bernard, come on now. You had the..." No, I ain't... I ain't talking... I'm talking about far as all around skills. But one thing I did have, I had the room and ability to do what? To reinvent myself, to make sure that I don't be one way all the time. I learned styles that Roy possessed, I learned styles that, that, that Trinidad possessed. I learned the street Philadelphia mentality of the history of Philadelphia, come and wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. I learned all that stuff and wrapped it up in a recipe, and now the main course was served. I learned so many things through time and experience, up or down, bad or good, like or dislike. I learned all these things and put 'em together in a proper space. And I said, "Guess what? If I'm in there with a guy that's strong the first couple of rounds, I'm gonna know it without showing him I'm being leery of him." And once I identify that, takes about two or three rounds. Why you think they said he's a slow starter? He's boring the first four or five fights. Joe, you watch me.

    18. NA

      Yeah.

    19. BH

      You heard 'em say, all the commentators, "Uh, they snoring around the fourth round. They snoring." But then I understand what I have to do.

    20. NA

      Turn up the gas.

    21. BH

      Not only... Yep, turn up the gas, but disarm them. Disarm them mentally, which control, from my perspective, everything you do tomorrow, everything you do the next round, everything you think about doing, if I put doubt in your mind and come to the ring prepared physically to take you to that task of whether you believe what you say. That's D Block.

    22. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    23. BH

      And then you take that experience, which I've had, not bragging and boasting about it, but it's my history. It's part of my story. Without that, I'm not here. One of the enjoyable things I would love doing, uh, before the fight start, is when the referee, "Bernard, come out. Jermaine, tell everybody." And then we in the middle of the ring, and he giving you your last rites, right? The last instructions of the rules he gave you in the dressing room. I call it the last rites, because you don't have to be alive when you leave out of there. When that bell ring, your life could be in that... in jeopardy. So I wanted to say last rites. So when they give us the last rites, "You heard the rules, you heard this. This is too low, this is too high if you hit there," and I'm looking at my opponent like me and you looking at each other. He looking at me, I'm looking through him. I said it earlier. And whatever he see, he won't speak, but he can't run now. And as his bottom lip shiver, as we s- stare at each other for at least two seconds before he gives us the instructions to go to the corner and then the bell ring, first round is on. It ain't how fast and how good I start, it's how I finish.... that I beat my opponents in and out of the ring. (pause) They front-runners. They run in 880s and they like, "Oh, I- I- I got a great time." I'm like, "Okay. We're not done, though." That's the patience that is knowing who you are and understanding that in doing that, you might have to taste some defeat. But you always hear the soundbite, especially in boxing, they love to use words because other people say it, "Dare to be great." Their actions don't speak the words that come out of they mouth most of the time. And that's what separate the dos and the don'ts.

    24. JR

      The dare to be great?

    25. BH

      Correct.

    26. JR

      And the belief in yourself at 44, 45 years old, to still be not just world-class, but one of the best in the world.

    27. BH

      Thank you.

    28. JR

      That was just... It was just extraordinary that you were able to keep that level of skill. Now, I just wanna talk to you about your lifestyle and your training, and what was it about your preparation, the way you lived, that gave you this incredibly long career?

    29. BH

      My mother and father, Bernard Sr. and Shirley Hopkins, my mother, (sniffs) they lived, they lived, they had a different, uh, way of, of, of, of... at that, that time, the way they lived. I, I come up, I told you again, you know, a big family-

    30. JR

      Mm-hmm.

  6. 1:15:00 – 1:30:00

    Hmm. But what I'm…

    1. BH

      the environment of who you deal with, who you stay away from, who to snitch, what guard, what CO is good, what CO is not. Most of the COs live in your same neighborhood you grew up at. It was the brother of your uncle, friend, who never had a felony so he got to fill the application, he got a job and then he's the CO. "I know your dad." "Okay, thanks. Hey CO, can I, you know, uh, uh, get extra commissary or whatever?" "Uh, go ahead." So you're not really protected by nobody because anybody could sell you out or do a favor.

    2. JR

      Hmm. But what I'm trying to understand is, just physically, I understand that you didn't party. I understand that you were very disciplined. But how were you physically able to compete at that level deep into your 40s?

    3. BH

      Because of, uh, again, lifestyle, talent-

    4. JR

      But everybody else falls apart.

    5. BH

      But, but because everybody else is doing what everybody else been doing. The, then, and, and, and, but-

    6. JR

      What were you doing different physically?

    7. BH

      Physically, I was always, even to the day, I pay attention to what I put in my body is who I am, not what I actually look like. And I understood that most people that I seen in my time in boxing, Florida's disciplined the same way. Don't drink, don't smoke, and be sitting right there in the club and everybody doing everything else. You heard that before. It's all over. It's, it's just-

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. BH

      ... you got those type people like that. But genetics plays a r- a ... My grandmother lived to 99, but then again, do I really take all the eggs and put it in that basket 'cause my father and mother died before 60? So, uh, I would say the lifestyle. I would say, uh, the mindset or the teachings are both, uh, hit, not get hit, um, you know, read books a lot, do something to exercise your brain, take care of your physical body. The penitentiary, the penitentiary taught me more going there once I got there to understand what I wanted to do. I wasn't just lifting weights in a weight yard and be swole up around a bunch of men for five years. I went and understood that A, after a year went by, they got a boxing program.

    10. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    11. BH

      I wanted to get off the block to go to another block and the guard, CO said, "Where you going?" "Why 4145." "Hey, I'm, um, I'm going to the gym, but I'm trying to go on A block to hang out before count to go back on my block." If I don't do it, if I don't get over there before count, I get a write-up. So I was forced to go down the gym and seeing people sparring and I said, "I wanna be a part of that." And I got my ass beaten lesson and I didn't like it and I never been afraid to go in the gym again. 30 years later, I said I would never go in the ring or any situation ill-prepared or unrepared. I always go in there prepared. That lesson that I said to you then and I say to you now, being in that institution, having that experience, going in there in that gym for the first time and say, after a year went by, and only by accident-... that I went down that gym because I was headed to another block, as I said earlier. And to get down that gym, because boxing was in the penitentiaries in that era. We had boxing there attached to the AAU, which is the same thing they have outside. It's to bring young fighters in there to fight us. The amateurs have shows for the inmates. You buy a ticket at the commissary. You go to the fights that Friday. And inmates watch you, root for you. I didn't like how I felt. I wasn't prepared. They didn't beat me because I wasn't better. I got beat because I didn't run. I got beat because of ego. I got beat because as they say the word hater that I go down as ʻAhi'ai. "Well, you want to get in there with him?" "Yeah, come on." I used to box when I was down the streets. You know, that's, that's, that's the common talk.

    12. JR

      Right.

    13. BH

      I used to do this when I was in the street. Okay. But those same old head trainers that had double life or one life sentence or two life sentence, they spoke about me on Behind the Glory, Brian Gumbel. Look it up. It's out there. They spoke about me when I visit that same prison in my early professional career. Guess what? During what? Sparring for my Atlantic City preliminary fights when I was building my record to get to where I became a champion. I became the USBA champion, which is a sister of the IBF World Championship belt. I left that institution, anyone would have ran much far as, as far as they could. They'd have ran so far from that place and never want to see it again. But after six or seven months of coming from a first professional loss with Clinton Mitchell in Atlantic City, look it up, I took off 89 and 90. The streets was grabbing me. I still had seven and a half years parole. Do the math. Nine years. I rebooted my first fight, I believe was in 91. 90 and 91. But that crucial moment, that year and a half, if you look up my record, you'll see Clinton Mitchell, 89 inactive. 80, uh, uh, 89, inactive, 90 inactive, 91. W- w- w- what was happening these 16 months? Phew. I made the decision meeting an old guy named Bowie Fisher, God rest his soul. He won a champ- We won championships. He should be in the Hall of Fame because of me. I'm already in there. (sniffs) I'm the only fighter he ever had. Very few trainers go in the Hall of Fame with one Hall of Famer or fighter. Fighter gets in, but the trainer might not. And I'm not saying that's bad or good, I'm just saying that's how it goes. He made a, and I made a, a bet. "You be in the..." This is out there. "You be in the gym tomorrow and the next day, and every day that we in the gym, I will be here." He heard young fighters come through. He heard guys come through before. "Oh, can you train me?" "I'm gonna be here tomorrow." He might come tomorrow, but they don't come to be a champion every day that the gym is open. And we had a bet without even saying it as a bet. He asked me to come and he would be there. If I come, he said he'll be there. And it was sort of like he... And to the point we stopped even thinking about it. We just repeated it to the reporters and everybody that talked to us.

    14. JR

      So how-

    15. BH

      That's how we met.

    16. JR

      How long after your first professional loss do you hook up with Bowie Fisher?

    17. BH

      80... 91. 91, 92.

    18. JR

      So that's 16 months, that's when you hook up with him. And how long do you spend training with him before you have your next professional fight?

    19. BH

      All the way up to the Trinidad fight.

    20. JR

      Oh. So during that 16 months off, were you just training? Were you just improving?

    21. BH

      Yeah. But the training was fighting. You had mandatories. So I had two fights, maybe three a year until you establish yourself. Normally two a year once you get at that level of, of, you know, competition. But yeah, I stayed in the gym. You heard the saying, "gym rat."

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. BH

      I was a rat in that gym. I stayed in the gym. And one thing else that I pass on to the Golden Boy fighters today, because they came, you know, they, they come to me, they asked me quickly. Of course, why wouldn't they? Right?

    24. JR

      Right.

    25. BH

      History normally repeats itself. Watch old fights, but the old fights they watching is our era.

    26. JR

      Hmm.

    27. BH

      I say, "Not only that, go to the next era."... go as furthest back that you need to go to understand that what you think you doing has been done already. But the beauty of going back and getting that experience and add it to the land of time that you got, the land, you have land you can build extension to your house. The land you have in your age and the time you now are developing, take knowledge from the cradle to the grave and take those recipes, put them together from the past, and you add it to the foundation that you already have, which is you, your style. It will be hard to adjust to a guy... th- to, to adjust to beat a guy that has more than one weapon. And I don't mean their hands. I'm talking about in their arsenal, in their arson. It's hard to beat a guy like that. Joe Frazier, great fighter, Hall of Famer, but never boxed like Ali. He came forward even though it was to his disadvantage. You in New York City at 12 noon driving, but you don't have reverse. You gonna, you gonna get jammed up.

    28. NA

      Right.

    29. BH

      You anywhere near, you anywhere in New York Times Square down there and you can't back up, you gonna have a problem. I guarantee you. Take that concept into a fight. You know that you gotta back up or at least duck some of those, but you still conditioned to go forward because you've been successful all the way up to now.

    30. NA

      Mm-hmm.

  7. 1:30:00 – 1:45:00

    Mm. …

    1. BH

      22 defenses. At 11 at this time, I said, "Look, I'm the champion. Tito's coming up to weight to win my title." Don King presented me a deal with my advisor, representator, for a two-fight deal, to be in this historic, since Marvin, Marvin Hagler Undisputed Tournament for the Sugar Ray Robinson Trophy. I ain't gonna pass that up because this takes me to stardom. So I signed on. Press conference starts, New York-... you want me to play second. Tito is more known. Tito just beat Oscar De La Hoya by split decision. Controversial or not, split decision. (swigs drink) I'm letting everyone know at HBO, Carrie Davis, Ross Greenberg, the suits at HBO at that time, Mark Taffet. I said... "We going to Philadelphia from New York, then Miami, and then San Juan, promotional tour. I anticipate the bullshit. Take it, and I'm gonna play second because Tito has much fan base than me, and the Latin market is huge," which, okay, I know that, but still, "I am not surrendering." You're still the champion. "And I'm Bernard Hopkins. If y'all don't respect me when we go to this next city..." Because I threw the flag down in New York City. There's a park right next door, across the street from HBO buildings in Manhattan. Can't mention the name right now. I can, but I don't remember the name, but it's there. And we had the press conference there. The flag went down in New York first. They quieted up real quick because they didn't want it to spread like it already did, but it was already out through some reporters that was there. That was the first stop, New York City, and they didn't respect me. And I said to them, "If we're gonna do these next cities and y'all don't wanna worry about me, y'all, y'all not being conscious of this flag going down again, then respect that I have 11 defenses. This is my division. Tito's coming up to my division to make history. You're gonna respect me. I'm gonna be first, and I'm gonna be last through this tour that we're gonna do. I'm not gonna play second behind, now trying to win the middle battle before it starts. I'm not putting him up there like that. Y'all can do it, but you ain't gonna do it in front of me. It's gonna be a problem. Now, we can do this press conference. We can go to Philly, and we can go to Miami, and we can go to San Juan." "I know, just like it happened yesterday." I said, "But one thing for sure, I'm not gonna apologize 'cause that's what they wanted me to do. Where I come from, you don't punch a man or take his money until you say sorry the next day. You don't do that. You take it, and you stand on it. And if you see him again, you take it again." I said, "I'm not gonna apologize. Y'all can wait. We can go, if y'all wanna go. If four of my people don't wanna go because they gotta take care of their dog or they got a appointment at the doctor's that I ain't hear about until that happen, let me know on my side, anybody who need to go. You know, cup man, my trainer, you know, anybody... Y- if anybody worry about going to the next three cities, then let me know." "Oh, okay." "I wouldn't apologize." They said, "Okay." "They going crazy in San Juan. Let me know before I get there. Bernard, you know, this... We're gonna have security, we're gonna have..." Okay, you had a, you had the, the Puerto Rican police watching a guy that threw the flag down in New York? So, we get to Philadelphia. The press conference was smooth. We had a peace treaty in New York that nobody would... nobody would talk about it. "We, we're not going to bring it up even if the reporters bring it up." "Cool. Okay." Tito was on the same... "Okay." Nobody. Everything went fine. Philly, fine. Reporters asked if he skated across with ass. Miami, fine. Of course people asked... Uh. "Let's concentrate on the fight. It's gonna be good." September 29th, you know, it was 9/11, we all together, rah, rah, rah, you know, against the... The whole world's been, been churned up. You know, it was the first big event in two weeks after 9/11. My experience was there. Film everything. That's attached to my legacy. We get to Miami. It didn't get heated, but, you know, people got... Big Latin community down there. It got, you know, kind of feisty, I would say. We get to San Juan. (swigs drink) Roberto Coliseum. Th- that year, Satchel Paige, I heard a note about Roberto, you know, the baseball player. Mm-hmm. Stadium is packed, pep rally. Tito Trinidad. There's state police, stone-faced. Everybody look this point, go that way. "Okay." I know I'm in enemy's land. I'm playing chess, not checkers. And I know how to move my pieces. So I go down, "Okay, we gotta go that way." We at the airport in San Juan, all the store-... The people that was, was there working was, "They flagged me. No. Bobby, Bobby, flag." They give me... "Uh, okay." So we walking, everybody going one way. We get to Roberto Coliseum, motorcade. Press conference starts, eh, seven, eight minutes. Went right in, packed. They get, you know, you could walk right in, fan, whatever. So that was the intimidation ploy they was trying to do on me. Understood, I'm San Juan, away from home, and outnumbered, correct?... they got to calling certain names, you know, far as the show and HBO got up there and spoke, this is a historic... Boom, boom, boom. So we got through that. Then it's time for the fighters. (swallows) I got up there, (sighs) said what I said, did my famous throat slashing, decks, heads coming off. Then Tito got up there, yeah. He said a couple of words and banged down with, "You threw my flag." (smacks table) He broke the treaty.

    2. NA

      Mm.

    3. BH

      So now I went into my act, but serious. "When you threw my flag," Spanish. They went crazy. They started throwing magazine, reporters, they taking pictures, they, they looking at... So I, th- the, seemed like everybody in the bleachers was coming. We ducking, books, m- m- magazines. Now they're starting to get little pushy-pushy. (swallows) So Don King in the middle, Trinidad got away from the podium. Don, like today, we take the fighters hands, "Hey, big fight's gonna happen." Don waving the flag before he done this hand raising, which he didn't get a chance to do, rather, before he attempted to do it. He's waving the flag, and this is on video, he's waving the flag. (swallows) Tito broke, he, he broke the treaty, he ain't supposed to say nothing, but he home, right? I gotta counter that. I gotta counter that. I gotta do something so risky that it's gonna, I hope, be world news. (swallows) Don was fighting me not to get... I grabbed the flag from his hand. We tussled three, four minutes, three seconds, excuse me. (swallows) It literally for a second was quiet. (swallows) When that flag hit that ground...

    4. NA

      Here it is right here.

    5. BH

      Don telling me to back up, I'm pointing my finger at Tito. I snatched the flag out of Don's hand. His eyes opened up, everything just went... The fans from the front was already coming down. That's why my guys, Joe Lair was saying, "Come on, let's go." So they was taking me up to the balcony, where I had to jump down in between the bleachers. Like, I had to get down to the dugout, basically, to get free, to get away, 'cause they was coming up. They was taking me up because they was coming past the reporters, they was coming from... To get me going up. We couldn't do nothing but go up and the only way to get down was to jump down, like the dugout that you go through.

    6. NA

      And this is after you threw the flag down?

    7. BH

      Of course. The flag went down. When the flag went down, they was just-

    8. NA

      Pandemonium.

    9. BH

      ... they w- they were just coming. And, and my, somebody hitting me there, whoever the guy was. Nazeem Richardson is behind me with the kufi, Shareef, all my guys, two of my guys, the rest of the people just hitting me on my back, um, and throwing things at me. So they just trying to now actually get away from the crowd that's coming up. Where I'm going, I don't know. And I jumped down that, that, the opening and that's when (laughs) the sheriff or the police said, "No, that way." He wasn't help... So we found a, a, a room, locked ourself in the room, holding the door. Now, we trying to lock the door, but they, the door is like a hard move, they, they pushing the door, we holding the door. We gotta hold this door like this. Anybody that remember that moment, after they hear this podcast, it rained... Look, we all know how the tropical storms come when you over there in the islands. It rained so hard around the time that we needed to get out of there and get straight to the airport, which they took us, motorcade, cops on both sides, with fans in cars riding on the side and behind us. It was like 95 on the East Coast, it was like I-10 crossing West Coast to East Coa- they was on our ass going to the airport. That moment, that moment that I got on that airport, got to the airport and got on that plane, that moment and the weeks to come before September 29th 2001, Tito had to train, from my perspective, and I said this leading up to the fight when I had interviews and mentioned it because the flag was brought up, of course, in the riot that I caused and instigated. Tito had to hit that bag with that thought of hitting me. He had to train and run. He had to be reminded because he always stayed in San Juan and trained. He rarely went to camp, if he ever went to camp to train. He stayed in San Juan. He's their hero, even to today, and Tito had to hear something...... from whether his siblings, cousins, uncles, next door nei- whoever, wherever he was at, for training camp in San Juan, someone was reminding him. The name that they was calling me is Diablo.

    10. NA

      (laughs)

    11. BH

      They was calling me all kinds of stuff, and I wore it like a badge of honor because I wanted to send a message. And I wanted him to go through those four or five weeks left, because of 9/11, they rebooted to the 29th, I wanted him to think about me every time he preparing for that fight. Because someone's gonna remind him, even if it's the guy that he's getting groceries from. And I wanted him to think about what I'd done ... what I did and what he has to do. So now, taking that strategy of Art of War, because I wanna fight a guy that's mad at me, not a guy that train and plan, and got a, a skillset of how to beat me. Give me that angry man every day. I love the angry guy, because he's going off emotions and I'm going off of intellect-

    12. NA

      Right.

    13. BH

      ... in boxing.

    14. NA

      Yeah.

    15. BH

      Business the same way.

    16. NA

      Mm.

    17. BH

      If you can get him mad, you can get him done. The intellect, the strategy. You trying to hit me and knock me out every time, the risk is always if I get hit, I'm done. But

  8. 1:45:00 – 1:45:52

    Section 8

    1. BH

      I take that 'cause I bank on what? Defense makes a good offense. A defense make a good offense. A good defense is a good offense because of what? You have to earn everything you get when you hit Bernard Hopkins, The Executioner, The Alien, B-Hop, three brands in three decades. Three brands in three decades. I can tell you a story about all these brands. I told you about The Executioner. I told you The Alien kept asking questions, reporters, every time I was fighting past 40s, "Why are you doing this? We know you got your first dollar. We know you live right. We know you're doing this." He just ... there was ... they got tired of seeing me, not me winning, they got tired of me hanging around and they start asking questions. I said, "Because I'm a fucking alien."

Episode duration: 2:59:11

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode 8I3hBXRrxdQ

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome