JRE MMA Show #160 with Francis Ngannou

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. FNFrancis Ngannou0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) All right, we're up. What's up, man? Good to see you.

   4. FNFrancis Ngannou0:15

      Not much. Good to see you, too, Joe.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      You have, uh, had a lot of experiences since the last time I saw you.

   6. FNFrancis Ngannou0:21

      (sighs) Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      A lot of things happened.

   8. FNFrancis Ngannou0:25

      That's why, like, uh, always about writing my book and chapter keep adding up, adding up, adding up. And, uh... Yes, every time you feel like your choice may be in the beginning or in the middle.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:39

      Yeah.

   10. FNFrancis Ngannou0:40

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       I don't think so. (laughs)

   12. FNFrancis Ngannou0:42

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       (laughs) Uh, y- you're definitely only in the middle.

   14. FNFrancis Ngannou0:45

       Yeah, in the middle.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       W- Somewhere... I mean, it's not the beginning, but, uh, it's a lot of experiences.

   16. FNFrancis Ngannou0:51

       Yes, man.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       So, tell me about leading up to the Tyson Fury fight.

   18. FNFrancis Ngannou0:56

       (clicks tongue) Oh, the Tyson Fury fight, that was great. You know, I was just there living the dream. You know, get this big moment, get that fight that I've been, I've been waiting for four years.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       The fight that everybody said you were never gonna get.

   20. FNFrancis Ngannou1:10

       Yes, that I was never gonna get.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Which is crazy. Like, thank God for the Saudis, because-

   22. FNFrancis Ngannou1:13

       Yes.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       ... they, they are making things happen, which is really incredible.

   24. FNFrancis Ngannou1:17

       They are making things happen.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       Incredible.

   26. FNFrancis Ngannou1:18

       Uh-huh. And it's not like, "Who is this? Who is who? Who is that?" You know? It's like, "Okay, we want it to happen. Then make it happen."

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       Yeah, because everybody wanted to see it happen. But it was one of those things where everybody dismissed it. Everybody said, "That's not gonna happen. Tyson Fury's the heavyweight champion, why would he fight a guy who doesn't have any professional boxing matches? That's crazy. Yeah, that's not gonna happen."

   28. FNFrancis Ngannou1:41

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       And it happened. And then, everybody said, "You didn't stand a chance," and then when you knocked him down the second round, everybody was like, "Holy shit." (laughs)

   30. FNFrancis Ngannou1:50

       (laughs)
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yes. There is a,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:01

   2. FNFrancis Ngannou15:01

      Yes. There is a, uh, there was even a rematch clause, um... How, how do you call, like, um, first regard of rematch clause. There was some sort- something in the contract of a, about a rematch clause.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      Was that if you beat him? Or if...

   4. FNFrancis Ngannou15:21

      Mm. Was if I get in the eighth round.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:24

      Really?

   6. FNFrancis Ngannou15:25

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:25

      Wow.

   8. FNFrancis Ngannou15:27

      So the deal of the rematch was if I get in the eighth round.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:30

      So why didn't the rematch materialize?

   10. FNFrancis Ngannou15:34

       Uh, I think it's the timing. I think it's a matter of the timing.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:38

       Hmm.

   12. FNFrancis Ngannou15:39

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       So, so you go from that fight to the Ant- Anthony Joshua fight.

   14. FNFrancis Ngannou15:44

       Yes.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:45

       So tell me about the preparation in leading up to that fight.

   16. FNFrancis Ngannou15:49

       In fact, the preparation for the Anthony Joshua fight, then I started, you know, I, after having, like, four months of training camp for the Tyson Fury fight, I had this feeling, you know, and then-

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       (sniffs)

   18. FNFrancis Ngannou16:02

       ... I get little, um, I get a little confident. Now I know how he works, like, 10 rounds, and then, uh, was pretty good. You know, the Tyson Fury fight, um, I think I spar, I sparred, like, 10 rounds for, like, two weeks. Yeah, like, four, four sparring of 10 rounds barely, but the Ty- the Anthony Joshua fight, six week before the fight, I was... No, I wasn't 10. No, the Tyson Fury... Yeah. Y- uh, four weeks before the fight, I was already doing, like, 10 rounds and I was feeling good, you know, even little lighter. But things plays out different and I think, um, unlike the Tyson Fury fight that nobody expected me to do anything, here, they were expecting me to do something. So things play, played out little different. And then we get in the fight week and then, um, every time that we're gonna do something in the fight week, uh, whether it's media, they're gonna pick me up and then I get there, have to wait, like, one hour and half before he arrives. And that was, like, uh, maybe the third day of the week that Dewey, Dewey Cooper, he said, oh, he start to get really, uh, mad, uh, upset about it, like, "Yes, this is how they get, they do to get fighter tired." But at the time, I didn't know what was going on, you know?

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       Mm-hmm.

   20. FNFrancis Ngannou17:40

       So I'm like, "No, come, uh, relax, Dewey. It's okay." You know, I didn't know until we get to the fight day. Fight day, receive a email, pickup time. I mean, this one thing am- among others. Pickup time, uh, 10:30, from the hotel. And then when they say 10:30, by 10:20, there is a car in your door, waiting. We go to the supposedly fight, fight time, mean- between midnight to 1:00 AM. We get to...... to the arena, 10:45. There is a producer come into the locker room, say, "Oh, guy. We are l- running late on the broadcast. Now, we are ha- we, uh, we gonna go around 1:45 each." I'm like, "Okay, 1:45." It's 10:45, three hours. (sighs) Okay. You know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:43

       So what do you do? Do you eat? Do you sleep? What do you do when you know you, you have three more hours?

   22. FNFrancis Ngannou18:48

       You don't know. You just stay there and then you have like a drug test guy around waiting for you to pee.

   23. JRJoe Rogan18:55

       How far before the fight do you eat?

   24. FNFrancis Ngannou18:58

       Usually, maybe like four, five hours. Yeah, like maybe five to six hours and then you get some snacks in between, you know. And then, um, yeah. It was 1:00, around 1:30 that he was, Anthony Joshua arrived. I saw on screen. I'm like, "So we're supposed to fight at 1:45. He's arriving at 1:30. What does that mean? He's going to..." So-

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:33

       So they're playing games.

   26. FNFrancis Ngannou19:35

       Until we, we fight at 1:00... At 3:30. We leave the-

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:39

       Oh, wow.

   28. FNFrancis Ngannou19:39

       ... locker room at 3:30. I have been in Saudi for almost two months training to fight between midnight and 1:00.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:48

       Mm.

   30. FNFrancis Ngannou19:49

       That was my be- my training time. By 2:00, 3:00, I'm in bed asleep.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Everything right in preparation?…

   1. FNFrancis Ngannou30:00

      Like-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      Everything right in preparation?

   3. FNFrancis Ngannou30:03

      In preparation, we did everything right. You know, sometime... You know, like, when for, uh, for example, I, um, I fought Stipe. I went back and I could have list a... I could make a whole list of what I did wrong, what I could have done better, and that's why, like, even after that fight, my next fight again Derrick Lewis was so bad because I was still working on the list of what I have done, done wrong.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:31

      Hmm.

   5. FNFrancis Ngannou30:32

      But here, i-... we were very disciplined, we did everything and everybody was professional. You can't say, n- uh, "This person did this wrong. This should've be like this, this should've be like that." (sighs) And-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:49

      It's so different, too, because you're going from no professional boxing fights to two of the ver- very best, not just in the world, but the, two of the very best ever.

   7. FNFrancis Ngannou31:00

      Absolutely.

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:00

      Anthony Joshua, Olympic gold medalist, elite fighter, and incredible athlete. I mean, he's so good. So, did you think, like, uh, at all about having fights with maybe some guys that were below that level to get more experience? Like, after the Tyson Fury fight, maybe fighting a guy who's, like, ranked 15th or 16th, you know...

   9. FNFrancis Ngannou31:25

      Mm. I never thought about that, you know-

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       You just went for the money.

   11. FNFrancis Ngannou31:30

       Uh-

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:30

       And the money in the big fight. The big fight is obviously-

   13. FNFrancis Ngannou31:33

       Yes, want a big fight. So, like, uh, for example, um, after the Tyson Fury fight, if I go for another guy, uh, top 15, like, what's, what's the goal here? I mean, again, I'm not 20 years old, I'm not 25, that I have a plan to go up the ranking-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:53

       Right.

   15. FNFrancis Ngannou31:53

       ... and get to the championship. I want to fight.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:58

       Just get that money.

   17. FNFrancis Ngannou32:00

       Yeah, get the money. I get the good-

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:02

       Get the big fights.

   19. FNFrancis Ngannou32:02

       ... the, the big fight out of the big fight, you know? So, that was, that was the goal.

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:08

       Yeah. Well, you achieved-

   21. FNFrancis Ngannou32:09

       You know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:10

       ... that goal.

   23. FNFrancis Ngannou32:10

       Because, like, first of all, going to the Tyson Fury fight, you didn't know if there was a plan after that, if there was another fight after that. And then after the Tyson Fury fight, the next fight that you have a call for was a Anthony Joshua fight.

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:27

       Were you trying to get a different fight after the Tyson Fury fight? Like, after the Tyson Fury fight, were you trying to get a rematch or were you just willing to take whatever they are offering you?

   25. FNFrancis Ngannou32:36

       The rematch was there. We know we had a rematch, but he was going to fight Usyk first.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:41

       Hmm.

   27. FNFrancis Ngannou32:42

       It's a thing that's supposed to happen in December and he couldn't.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:45

       Right, he got caught.

   29. FNFrancis Ngannou32:46

       Yeah, he couldn't, he couldn't fight in December, so I wasn't really on something. I was just there and then I get the offer of Anthony Joshua. Then I'm like, "Let's go."

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:58

       Hmm.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   (laughs) …

   1. FNFrancis Ngannou45:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      (laughs)

   3. FNFrancis Ngannou45:00

      Or 43? (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:01

      (laughs) Well, you just think-

   5. FNFrancis Ngannou45:03

      I think y- y- you get to the p- you get to-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      Yeah.

   7. FNFrancis Ngannou45:04

      ... the point to t- it get you to think that maybe 43 is the prime years. (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:08

      (laughs) He won the title at that year, right?

   9. FNFrancis Ngannou45:10

      Yeah, you watch that guy-

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:11

       Yeah.

   11. FNFrancis Ngannou45:11

       ... and be like, "43? He's not that old." You know, I think at 43, you can still do something. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:16

       Yeah, it, it... Well, it depends on the division, right? Like, George Foreman won the heavyweight title at 45.

   13. FNFrancis Ngannou45:22

       Yeah. Yeah, h- h- uh, heavyweight-

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:26

       Different.

   15. FNFrancis Ngannou45:26

       It's more... Yeah, it's different.

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:28

       Yeah.

   17. FNFrancis Ngannou45:28

       Because they don't push on that gas, you know?

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:31

       Right, right, right.

   19. FNFrancis Ngannou45:32

       They throw some punch and move, the speed, you know?

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:34

       How old is Cedric?

   21. FNFrancis Ngannou45:36

       Cedric Ndombé?

   22. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       Yeah. Find out how old he is, Joe.

   23. FNFrancis Ngannou45:39

       I don't know. I think he's-

   24. JRJoe Rogan45:39

       I wanna say he's young.

   25. FNFrancis Ngannou45:41

       Yeah, he's young, he's young. He might be 30, two, 30?

   26. JRJoe Rogan45:43

       How old is he? 31. 31.

   27. FNFrancis Ngannou45:45

       That's a good age.

   28. JRJoe Rogan45:45

       That's a good age.

   29. FNFrancis Ngannou45:46

       31?

   30. JRJoe Rogan45:46

       Yeah.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   You have to think.…

   1. FNFrancis Ngannou1:00:00

      Even my, my body, my, um, my, um... Even the muscle's memory are not the same. The functionality of my body is not the same, you know? Unlike MMA that I know every single mo- uh, action in MMA, every single moment. I've been there tens of time. I know. I get this. But boxing, you're still like, okay. You know, you might get even s- in some position and get stressed because you've never been there, you don't know-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

      You have to think.

   3. FNFrancis Ngannou1:00:33

      ... you have to figure out.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

      Right.

   5. FNFrancis Ngannou1:00:34

      You know?

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

      Instead of it being instinctual.

   7. FNFrancis Ngannou1:00:36

      Yeah, and then you, uh, until you, uh, you get there two, three, two, three times, then you're like, "Oh, it's okay. I can deal with it." You know? Uh, MMA, I go, I go in, uh, MMA fight with a knee injury-... I'm still like, "I get this." But boxing, little different.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

      Mm.

   9. FNFrancis Ngannou1:00:54

      You, you basically know that question in yourself about if you can handle this.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:01

       Right.

   11. FNFrancis Ngannou1:01:01

       It's not like, "I get this."

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:03

       Right, right, right.

   13. FNFrancis Ngannou1:01:03

       Yeah, it's different.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:04

       There's a lot of thinking-

   15. FNFrancis Ngannou1:01:05

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       ... because it's a new thing for you.

   17. FNFrancis Ngannou1:01:07

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

       When you train for boxing, I know you have, uh, Dewey Cooper, you have Eric Miksic. Like, d- did you bring other people in to help train you in boxing?

   19. FNFrancis Ngannou1:01:16

       Yeah, I brought, uh, John Bumba from France. Uh, he assist, uh, Dew- Dewey sometime because he's, he's very, like, um... He has a very good armory style, which I think is something that I still need to build in my game. And, uh... Yeah, other than that, I have, uh, Trip, which is my strength and conditioning coach. So I put those element down.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

       Did you, uh, get a chance to spar any top heavyweights in, in America?

   21. FNFrancis Ngannou1:01:49

       Mm, top heavyweight, like who? Um, I will say Carlos Takam. Um, Guido is at top, top right now. He's my, um, he's my other sparring partner. But in America, uh, not all the top... Uh, I get Jeremiah Milton as well. Um, but no other big name in America.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

       Which is even more impressive, your performance against Tyson Fury, when you consider, like, you really didn't even spar elite heavyweights.

   23. FNFrancis Ngannou1:02:26

       Listen, I think sometime we, um, we don't give credit to some people because they don't just have a name.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:34

       Mm-hmm.

   25. FNFrancis Ngannou1:02:35

       Because they are not... They haven't have a, get, have a stage to play on.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:40

       Right.

   27. FNFrancis Ngannou1:02:40

       You know. And when we think like, "Oh, he's nobody." Or, "He's not elite." Let me tell you some example. Before Andy Ruiz, uh, fought Anthony Joshua, would you think about him as a elite fighter?

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:54

       No, a lot of people-

   29. FNFrancis Ngannou1:02:55

       Exactly.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:55

       ... had no idea.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:22:16

   Mm. …

   1. FNFrancis Ngannou1:15:00

      Not to mention that the champions of the PFL Africa will co- uh, just as PFL MENA and PFL Europe, they will all come together to fight for the, uh, main PFL title.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:12

      Mm.

   3. FNFrancis Ngannou1:15:13

      You know? So-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:15:14

      That's exciting.

   5. FNFrancis Ngannou1:15:15

      Everybody is getting that big, uh, stage. It's, uh, they are all working... They are all still under like the, the glo- the main PFL.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:15:24

      Yes.

   7. FNFrancis Ngannou1:15:25

      You see? Which is something that, uh, is very interesting, um, and then will give more, um, more spotlight, more opportunity. Also get, uh, attention of media and then with this media, there's attention of sponsor that will go maybe to gym, to fighters, and that create- that will create a ecosystem around that media interest, the sponsor come around and then fighter get paid and then maybe his sparring partner get paid or I don't know, he has his... a assistant or somebody working t- work for him get paid and the money is now-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:16:05

      Yeah.

   9. FNFrancis Ngannou1:16:05

      ... in the loop-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:16:06

       And-

   11. FNFrancis Ngannou1:16:06

       ... with everybody.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:16:07

       ... do you see yourself, uh, after you retire from fighting going into a coaching and mentoring role for fighters? Do you, do you see yourself being more of in an executive position like working with either the PFL or whoever?

   13. FNFrancis Ngannou1:16:24

       I don't s- really, I never see myself as a coach. I don't have like a, uh, vocation for that. It's not something that I have, I look, I'm looking forward to. Although, um, I see myself like, um, maybe stay in the sport somewhere, like I- I also don't see myself as a manager at all.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:16:47

       That's a hard job.

   15. FNFrancis Ngannou1:16:49

       Uh, yeah, I know, cool.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:16:51

       Lot of bullshit.

   17. FNFrancis Ngannou1:16:52

       Yeah. (laughs) Like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:16:52

       Man, you still with a lot of bullshit.

   19. FNFrancis Ngannou1:16:55

       Like y- I just think that to be a good... It's a job that you think like to be good at it, you need to be screwing somebody.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:17:05

       Right.

   21. FNFrancis Ngannou1:17:06

       Most likely.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:17:07

       (laughs)

   23. FNFrancis Ngannou1:17:07

       Not always, but most likely.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:17:09

       Might be on the table. (laughs)

   25. FNFrancis Ngannou1:17:13

       (laughs) So I don't see myself like that but I see myself really, like working on li- like, um, the growth of the sport basically in Africa and again that's why like the PFL Africa comes to me like the right thing.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:17:29

       Yeah.

   27. FNFrancis Ngannou1:17:29

       You know, the, the retirement plan thing that I could focused on, been working on. I know how Africa work perfectly, I know how PFL work perfectly, I know, uh, Pete Murray and Don Davies, they are very excited about it. But bro, they are white people from America and they don't know-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:17:50

       (laughs)

   29. FNFrancis Ngannou1:17:50

       ... how Africa works. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:17:52

       (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:14:15