Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #173 with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez & William "Blinky" Rodriguez

Joe sits down with retired kickboxer, martial arts choreographer, and actor Benny “The Jet” Urquidez, and his brother-in-law, kickboxer, martial arts instructor, and community leader William “Blinky” Rodriguez. https://www.youtube.com/@BennyTheJetUrquidez https://www.bennythejet.teachable.com https://www.bennythejet.com https://www.cisgla.org Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Stream UFC 324 Saturday at 9PM Eastern – only on Paramount+. Visit https://paramountplus.com/ufc.

Joe RoganhostBenny UrquidezguestWilliam Rodriguezguest
Jan 21, 20261h 59mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:0015:00

    Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!…

    1. JR

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

    2. BU

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] Gentlemen, what's happening?

    4. WR

      Ah, hey, Joe.

    5. BU

      Where do we begin?

    6. JR

      Where do you begin?

    7. BU

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      Let me tell you, when I first came to Los Angeles in 1994, there was two places that I had to go. One of them was the Comedy Store, and the other one was the Jet Center. And I started training at the Jet Center in '94, before you guys shut down, because you had the earthquake-

    9. WR

      Right

    10. JR

      ... and you had the roof damage. So I was there before that happened, and I took your classes. I took your kickboxing classes because I remember it was very scary, 'cause you had a bunch of gang members in there.

    11. WR

      [chuckles]

    12. JR

      'Cause you were doing that, like, sort of outreach program where you're helping young gang members.

    13. WR

      Yes.

    14. JR

      So I had to spar with gang members. So I was training at the Jet Center until it shut down, and then I went briefly when you guys reopened in North Hollywood. I went to that place for a little bit, too.

    15. BU

      Ah, the Jet Gym.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. BU

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      But then, uh, I started training at Majiro Gym-

    19. BU

      Uh-huh

    20. JR

      ... which is in the, in the Valley.

    21. BU

      [clears throat] Yeah.

    22. JR

      But, uh, legends. You guys are legends, man.

    23. WR

      Well, thank you, Joe.

    24. JR

      True pioneers in martial arts.

    25. WR

      For you to remember was, was, uh, really humbled me. You remembered-- you mentioned my, my son and why I was starting that.

    26. JR

      Yes.

    27. WR

      And you don't even know what it's grown into since that day, that you've seen what's going on.

    28. JR

      Well, tell, tell the story about your son and how that whole thing started.

    29. WR

      Well, you know, unfortunately, in some communities, drive-bys aren't uncommon, and so when it becomes a generational curse, you know, and, and, and, and kids are getting killed sometimes randomly, um, that happened to me. It came knocking on my door in a valley that's got two million people. Knocked on my door, and, and, uh, I was just... I was- I'm gonna put it this way: I had a calling on my life to, to do something about it, because it became a situation where, where families and community was like, "Well, yeah, well, that's what happens in our community." And I was saying, "That is not what happens in our community. This is our community." And so I began to move, I began to move, ironically, with some churches that, uh, that were- that had that kind of ministry in their ministry, and marked peace marches, et cetera. But, uh, my son got shot while he was learning how to drive a stick shift.

    30. JR

      Wow.

  2. 15:0030:00

    In Japan?…

    1. BU

      and they couldn't believe an American just went in there and took their belt from them, and they didn't, they didn't like it, they didn't want it, and they kept having us come back, taking that, trying to take that belt back.

    2. JR

      In Japan?

    3. BU

      Never happened. In Japan.

    4. JR

      Wow!

    5. BU

      Never happened.

    6. JR

      Wow. And you gotta realize, like, back then, this is, like, post-Bruce Lee movies.

    7. BU

      That's right.

    8. JR

      So martial arts had exploded, karate exploded worldwide. Everybody wanted to learn martial arts, and Japan was kind of at the forefront of the kickboxing movement, right?

    9. BU

      That's right.

    10. JR

      'Cause they had, they had had a bunch of Muay Thai guys fight Japanese guys, and the karate guys lost to the Muay Thai guys, and then they had to adjust, and then they got rid of elbows and created kickboxing because they wanted more excitement. They wanted to get rid of the clinch and get rid of the elbows. And so-

    11. BU

      True

    12. JR

      ... and then K-1 was formed out of that.

    13. BU

      That's right.

    14. JR

      It's like you're, like, really, like, patient zero.

    15. BU

      [chuckles]

    16. JR

      Like, you know what I'm saying?

    17. BU

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JR

      Like, the real mixed martial arts movement really began with you guys.

    19. BU

      True.

    20. JR

      Wow.

    21. BU

      It's, uh-

    22. WR

      Yeah, you know, I was just gonna say, you know, there wa- there was a, there was a phase there, 'cause you mentioned Chuck Norris earlier, that he raised money in Detroit, and he had done Enter the Dragon.

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. WR

      So he had that notoriety, and he had a cattle call. So fighters came from all over Southern Cal to his dojo in Santa Monica, and it was, it was single eliminations to the knockout to see which five guys would represent LA, and the same was going on in, in New York, the New York Dragons, Detroit, the Detroit Dragons, DC, the DC Dynamos, and, and, and then the, the, the Texas Gladiators. Those were the teams people were vying for, and we, we participated. I ended up becoming the middleweight starter, Benny was the lightweight, a- and then Steve Sanders, who was an old name in traditional karate, three of his guys from the Black Karate Federation, Ernest "Madman" Russell, Danny Ferguson, Sugar Bear, we were the LA team. And the, what, what's crazy is that you won as a team. If you went out there and knocked the guy out or you got knocked out, they got 25 points.

    25. JR

      Ah.

    26. WR

      And, and so the accumulation of, of points, that you would get $1,500, but the losers got 700. So, so that, so that took off, and the last, uh, tournament or fight show that they had was at, at, uh, in Detroit. A- and after that, that's when, you know, things started going another direction.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. WR

      But it's just interesting, the way that it evolved.

    29. BU

      Right. Have you, have you ever heard of the PKA?

    30. JR

      Yes, sure.

  3. 30:0045:00

    Couldn't get the sponsorship either, Joe.…

    1. JR

      it just didn't catch with the American public, and I genuinely don't understand it.

    2. WR

      Couldn't get the sponsorship either, Joe.

    3. BU

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. BU

      You know?

    6. JR

      But it's, with the views come the sponsors.

    7. WR

      [clears throat] Mm.

    8. JR

      Right? And it's really just about presenting a package together and making it exciting for people.... See, the thing is, with the UFC in America, the UFC is so popular that if the UFC is coming to town, everybody's gonna go see the UFC. Every time the UFC's at Philly or Houston, it's like, "Let's go!" And you get tens of thousands of people wanna come out to see the UFC. But with kickboxing, you gotta sell it on these people.

    9. BU

      True.

    10. JR

      You gotta sell it to them, and it, it hasn't been sold properly yet. The thing is, the product is there. There's great strikers out there. Like, for-- Jamie, pull up a clip of, uh, Yuki Yoza. This cat freaks me out, because, like, his combinations, man, he's so lethal, and it just... You see guys who just don't know what to do with the fact that he's taking away their legs, like, right away. He does this weird thing, too, where he, like, hooks their legs, too.

    11. BU

      Mm-hmm.

    12. JR

      And throws great boxing combinations, too, but it's like everything is just constantly chopping at the inside of the legs.

    13. BU

      Mm-hmm.

    14. JR

      He throws high kicks and everything. He's just... And he's just brutalizing these dudes.

    15. BU

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JR

      And it's constant. No matter what he's doing, he's chopping your legs, taking your legs away, going inside, going outside. The kid's very good.

    17. BU

      Yeah, he is.

    18. JR

      And, you know, that Kyokushin background, it, you know, you guys know as b- as well as anybody, it's such a brutal style. And they have to learn boxing afterwards 'cause the Kyokushin competition is all punches to the chest only. But, look, if you can learn how to kick, you can learn how to punch. It's just a matter of putting the time in, and this dude has put the time in. He does this sneaky-

    19. BU

      Yeah

    20. JR

      ... thing, too, where he, he throws a low kick, and then he hooks their calves, and it works even on the Thais. I mean, just-

    21. BU

      Yeah, well-

    22. JR

      When you see a Thai getting his legs destroyed by a Japanese, you realize, "Wow, this sport has really changed."

    23. BU

      That's without a doubt. [chuckles]

    24. JR

      Sport, it's, it's c-

    25. BU

      Yeah

    26. JR

      ... this, one of the cool things about combat sports is that you see a new person rise, doing something different, and when they do, everybody else has to sort of catch up, and then the, the techniques evolve, and you see everybody rise to the level of whatever this person's at and recognize that there's new techniques that people are using. Because, you know, martial arts has evolved more since 1993 to 2026 than it did in the last 10,000 years.

    27. BU

      True.

    28. JR

      And it's really because of exposure and because people like you guys went out there in the early, early days and laid it all out on the line to find out. Because when I started doing martial arts was '82? '81 or '82, and back then, no matter what you... Uh, '81. No matter what you did, you thought your style was the best, and no one really knew.

    29. BU

      [chuckles]

    30. JR

      You know, if you did karate, you thought karate was the best. If you did taekwondo, that was the best. And there was no competition where everybody went together that we knew of, other than we heard about your fights that you guys had in Hawaii. Everybody heard about that. It was, like, legendary. Like, "Benny and Blinky went on a line."

  4. 45:001:00:00

    Happens all the time.…

    1. BU

      They, you know, before they go... I mean, they're training for their fight, and they get a concussion, and then next week they're going into the, their fight with a concussion, not even knowing they had a concussion.

    2. JR

      Happens all the time.

    3. BU

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      I know one guy who got knocked out twice in camp, and then, like, one of them was less than two weeks before his fight, and then he got touched on the chin in his fight, just went out cold because he was already fucked up.

    5. BU

      Mm-hmm. That's right.

    6. JR

      He came into the fight, like, severely compromised. It's like going into battle with a hole in your armor. He was already messed up. And, you know, there's like, there's a time and place for hard sparring, 'cause I think you have to have some hard sparring to un- sparring to understand that, hey, you can't just block something like that. You're gonna get your arm fucked up. You can't just have your... You're gonna have to deal with the fact that hard shots are coming your way, so sometimes you're gonna have to spar hard. But technique sparring is so important, too. One of the reasons why the Thais are so successful is they play spar. Like, they fight every week, so there's no reason-

    7. BU

      Yeah

    8. JR

      ... to get banged up. So when you watch Thai fighters, when they spar over there, they're like, "Oi, oi!"

    9. BU

      Mm.

    10. JR

      They touch each other.

    11. BU

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      They just touch each other. They're not trying to hurt each other-

    13. BU

      Mm

    14. JR

      ... 'cause, like, once a week, they have to go fight hard.

    15. BU

      Yes.

    16. JR

      So they don't fight hard when they're training. It's like their fighting is like their one hard sparring day.

    17. BU

      Yes.

    18. JR

      'Cause they're, some of them are literally are fighting once a week. You get these guys that are 22 years old, they have 200 fights-

    19. BU

      Yeah

    20. JR

      ... which is crazy!

    21. BU

      Right. [chuckles]

    22. JR

      Crazy.

    23. BU

      Mm. But, uh, you know, uh, uh, again, if you're fighting, eh, for lifestyle as eating-

    24. JR

      Yes

    25. BU

      ... for your family, so forth, when you go in there, they're fighting.

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. BU

      It, it's, there's no, uh, sparring session. It's, it's a fight, and that's how they bring home food to their families.

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. BU

      So when they go out there, I mean, they're, they're fighting at five years old. They're, you know-

    30. JR

      I know

  5. 1:00:001:15:00

    Oh, yes, I know him.…

    1. JR

      I first trained jujitsu under, I took private lessons from this guy, Silvio Pimenta.

    2. BU

      Oh, yes, I know him.

    3. JR

      You know Silvio?

    4. BU

      I do.

    5. JR

      He's a great guy. Shout out to Silvio. And, uh, he was a Gene LeBell student, so he had a bunch of nasty tricks that he had learned from Gene LeBell, along with his jujitsu stuff. So he showed me a lot of, like, different chokes and different things and different variations that Gene had developed.

    6. BU

      Right.

    7. JR

      And I was like, "Man!" And then I finally got to meet Gene. What a character that guy was. [chuckles]

    8. BU

      Yeah, he was.

    9. JR

      He is such a character.

    10. BU

      Gene was one of those type of warriors, senseis, that say, "If you want to train with me, don't be a, don't be afraid to get choked out." And before you can actually train with him, he choke you out.

    11. JR

      [laughing]

    12. BU

      He choke you out, and he, and he would go and get lipstick and put it around your eyes-... [laughing] and then when he wake you up, you had all of a sudden-- That was Sensei Gene.

    13. JR

      [laughing]

    14. BU

      He was-- And, and I told Sensei Gene, I said, "Get it over with. Just choke me out, get it over with." 'Cause I knew that, I knew that automatically, like, he was being easy with... I said, "Just do it. Get it over with," uh, I said, "I'm not afraid. Just do it." And took me out. Before I know it, I was out, and I was back up again. I didn't even know I was out. And, uh, he said, "You took it like a, you know, like a charm, man, you know, and it wasn't true." I said, I said, "You know, Sensei, if I'm not afraid to die, what can you possibly do to me?" He said, "Really?" And I said, "Yeah." And then he grabbed my big toe and put me in pain-

    15. JR

      [laughing]

    16. BU

      ... all the way up to my forehead, all the way back down to the other big toe. And I said, "I'll never say that one again." [laughing]

    17. JR

      Your big toe? He had a big toe submission.

    18. BU

      He, he, yeah, he grabbed my big toe-

    19. JR

      Ah

    20. BU

      ... at the, uh, right at, [chuckles] at the edge of it, and he put his nail in it. And oh, my God, my eyes were bulging.

    21. JR

      Gene told me a story about when he was old, he was... I think he was in his 70s. Some kids were breaking into his car, and he went outside. Did you hear this story?

    22. WR

      Yes.

    23. JR

      There's two guys that were talking. They're like: "Get the fuck out of here, old man." He's like: "Oh, really?" [chuckles] And he grabs this dude, fucking hip throws him onto the concrete, boom! Grabs the other dude, chokes him unconscious.

    24. BU

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      He fucked up two dudes when he was 70 years old-

    26. BU

      Yeah

    27. JR

      ... in front of his house. It's like-

    28. BU

      Yeah.

    29. WR

      Matter of fact, I did a couple of movies with him, and-

    30. BU

      Yeah.

  6. 1:15:001:30:00

    He's gonna have a sex- second surgery…

    1. JR

      He's gonna have a sex- second surgery soon, apparently.

    2. BU

      Two.

    3. WR

      How, how many detached retinas, you know?

    4. JR

      [clears throat] Yeah.

    5. WR

      Over the course of time.

    6. JR

      Oh, a countless number.

    7. WR

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      I mean, you're gonna have some detached retinas from fighting, period. There's no way to avoid it. You're getting punched and kicked and elbowed in the eye. It's going to happen. But-

    9. BU

      In the MMA.

    10. JR

      Yes, but it's gonna be less of it. I mean, look, Sugar Ray Leonard had a detached retina.

    11. BU

      That's right. That's right.

    12. JR

      And that was just from boxing gloves.

    13. WR

      Right.

    14. JR

      You're gonna have some detached retinas, but I think you'd have a lot less eye injuries if you covered those damn fingertips. And, uh-

    15. WR

      Yeah

    16. JR

      ... it's, it's just we've gotten used to these MMA gloves that they have today. It doesn't mean that that's the only way to do it.

    17. WR

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      They, they need to figure out another way.

    19. WR

      Gotta take care of the fighters.

    20. JR

      100%.

    21. BU

      Yeah.

    22. WR

      Right.

    23. JR

      And, and also make the sport better, because if fights don't get stopped from eye pokes, it's more exciting. It's better.

    24. WR

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      You don't want a fight stopped from an eye poke, so the fight will go on. There'll be better fights. It's a better product.

    26. BU

      Well, the, the same thing back then, they were fighting with eight-ounce gloves, but there were horsehair in it.

    27. JR

      Mm.

    28. BU

      And a lot of them were putting their glove in the spit bucket-

    29. JR

      Uh-huh, get it wet

    30. BU

      ... so it making the horsehair wet-

  7. 1:30:001:45:00

    That's true. So that's what, that's what…

    1. BU

      That's true. So that's what, that's what makes the art, you know, so unique but so needed. And in the art, it gives you a foundation to build on and in your life, and no matter what, and we've had all walks of life, uh, that come through the Jet Center, all walks... I mean, and the ones that- I mean, we had so many different attorneys coming in, and we used to call them the fighting attorneys, right? There were six, seven of them, and they were, you know, in the gym, they were so humble to each other. They love each other. They go outside, all of a sudden, they don't know, [chuckles] they don't know each other.

    2. WR

      [laughing]

    3. BU

      I was like, I said, "What's, what's wrong with you? You just finished sparring with them, working with them." And they said, "He's an attorney." I said, "And?" [chuckles] But it was, uh, it was- it brought character out of them. It brought their heart-

    4. JR

      Mm. Yeah

    5. BU

      ... and let them mirror the really truth on their journey and what they were, where they were going. And that's-

    6. JR

      Also, for an attorney to step into that world-

    7. BU

      Mm

    8. JR

      ... and be around both these young gang members that are learning a new path and then professional fighters, and like, you know, you're in a, a different world of discipline and willpower and focus that will help you in everything you do.... will help you as an attorney, will help you as a doctor, will help you as any- in anything you do.

    9. WR

      True.

    10. JR

      And, and certainly help you as a human.

    11. WR

      Yes.

    12. JR

      As a human, just get through life. There's nothing that's gonna be harder in life than, other than the loss of a loved one. Nothing gonna be harder than your hardest training session at a real fight gym.

    13. WR

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      It's just... That is- that makes the rest of the world easy, because your hardest thing, you volunteered to do, and you look forward to doing it again, and you do it every day. When you could do... Like, I always tell people, "Martial artists are some of the nicest fucking people you'll ever meet in your life." They're some of the nicest people, because they don't have anything to prove. Like, when I introduce my friends to, like, guys, I'm like, "What do you..." Like, I was talking about George St-Pierre yesterday.

    15. WR

      Yes.

    16. JR

      I was introducing someone to George St-Pierre. I'm like, "What do you think he does?" He's like, "I don't know. Seems like a nice guy." I'm like, "That is one of the baddest motherfuckers that ever walked the face of the earth. He's a two-division UFC world champion, one of the greatest of all time." They're like, "No way!" I'm like, "Yeah. I mean, like, he's like, 'How you doing, my friend?'" Like, super nice, super friendly.

    17. WR

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JR

      Like, yeah, he's got nothing to prove. There's nothing to prove, so he can be a nice person. He can be a nice person and not feel weak.

    19. WR

      He can be himself.

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. WR

      Yeah. Hey, Joe, so, so, you know, you made mention right now, one of the hardest things to do is lose someone. And so for me, I wanted to share a little bit, that in 2023, I got a phone call that, that, that was something that I could never anticipated. It was January of 2023, and it was a, a call that was made... One of my sons called to tell me that he had talked to a, a friend of ours that does a lot of work in, uh, with the prisons, has a lot of entrees on big-time boards, and that he was at, he was at one of the prisons, and that a, a, an inmate walked up to him and asked him if he knew me. So he said, "You know, do you know Blinky?" And he, and he said, "Yeah." He says, "Why?" And, and the guy says, " 'Cause I, I'd like to talk to him." And he said, "Well, why?" He said, "Because I'm the guy that murdered his son."

    22. JR

      Oh, wow!

    23. WR

      And, and so my son's telling me that our, our friend wanted to know if I would consider talking to him on the phone. So I had just entered into a season of fasting and praying. Me and my wife now, we're gonna celebrate 10 years-

    24. JR

      Mm

    25. WR

      ... Gloria, you know. And, and, uh, and I said, "I don't know." I was grappling, Joe. I was, I was, I was grappling. I was fighting with it. And then I heard a, a gentle voice, and it was, "Say yes. Say yes." So I called my son back, and I said, "Tell him I said yes, but I don't wanna talk to him on the phone. I wanna see him in person." And so that's exactly what happened. On January the 30th, we drove up to the prison, and, and, uh, we get there, and, and first, first, we stop and get something to eat, and then we get to the prison, and the CO's right there waiting. And when we get there, he's, uh, he says, "Yeah, well, uh, come on through." And so me and, and, and, uh, this guy went through, and he, uh, he says, "Yeah, you know, we don't normally have, uh, meetings on Monday, but everything's fine. We're gonna be okay." So they walk us through. We walk through to get out to the back door, and there's the yard. The yard, the barbed wire, everything's right there. We, we start walking.

    26. JR

      Mm.

    27. WR

      We go into some- a building to the left. Now, I thought I was gonna be talking to somebody, uh, behind glass, but it turns out that they're, they're asking me, what do I think about this room? And I, and, and I'm like, in my mind, "W- why are they asking me? What am I thinking about this room?" You know what I mean? Because, you know, that's, that's up to them. But I look down the hallway, and there's a door. I said, "What's behind that door?" And the CO tells me, he says, "That's a, that's a chapel." I said, "Can I see it?" We walk back down the hallway, he opens the door, and, and, and there's a podium right there, and there's about 15 chairs. So I said to him, "Can we use this room?" And he said yes. So at that point in time, I need to go to the restroom. So we walk out of the building, he takes me to the restroom. When we come back out, my friend, the one that was setting it all up, he's not there, but there's an inmate. I can hear him saying, "Hey, Blinky, thank you for the letter to the parole board. I got a date!" But I'm in another dimension, Joe. I mean, I- I'm like somewhere else. So couple of minutes goes by, and I hear, I hear my buddy, and he says, "Hey, Blinky, this is David." And when I, when I pivoted out, he was right here in front of me, this guy that had killed my son. And the words that came out of his mouth, Joe, I cannot even... I didn't have a second to, to try to digest it, but he says to me, "Can I get a hug?" And when he said, "Can I get a hug?" I grabbed him, and I embraced him, and I began to weep. I began to weep. I began to cry. I began to travail, and he began to weep. And that was a Holy Ghost moment, where the Spirit of God was moving on that whole issue. And we went from there into that chapel, and we spent a little over two hours talking. The, the, the CO that was there and my buddy, they were sitting in the corner of the room, and as I'm talking to him, and we're going over... 'Cause my wife, before I left the house, she says, "Remember, he was just a young guy." You know what I mean? "He was c- probably confused back then." So now I'm talking to him, and now we're going over different things that took place, and I hear that voice, "Tell him. Talk to him." So I said, "Okay." I said to him, "Can I have the privilege of leading you to the Lord?"

    28. WR

      ... and he said to me, "Yes." He says, "Yes," and tears start coming out of his eyes. I stepped a few feet over, I put my hand on his right shoulder, my, over his heart, and I let him. [coughs] And he began with a contrite heart, he began to weep and cry. And I came to realize, because it took me a long time to unpack that. Once I got- I left there, and I came home into the chair where I always sit to read, and wow! It's like, "What just happened? What did I just do? What just took place?" And at the end of the day, Joe, it was, I leave 99 to go get one. And that's what I grasped, that, that one life, that one person, under the... So that's why I've always said since then, that the power of forgiveness is more powerful than my left hook, and I had a good one, Joe. [chuckles] Yeah, that he did. Yeah.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. WR

      I just, chink! Nice and short, man. But, but the power of forgiveness, Joe, reconciles. It gives you a chance, man, to rekindle the fire. It gives you the opportunity, man, to live life-

  8. 1:45:001:59:18

    You know, it's, for me, um, to…

    1. JR

      today and to know that you started those first steps?

    2. BU

      You know, it's, for me, um, to start something, but in a way of the Bushido way, of the code of honor and respect, and so forth. This is what I felt that we were doing, building up a way of life where warriors will fight with dignity, and honor, and respect. And along the line, when, when... Actually, my last fight was in '95, '94. I got, uh, my last fight, [sniffs] and then it started to change because, uh, the Gracies came in w- in '90, and '95, it started mixed martial arts all the way up to 2000. And then cage fighting was-

    3. JR

      Huge

    4. BU

      ... man, just everywhere. But, um, I was, I wasn't really-- I was following some of it, but I, I didn't like some of it. It didn't, didn't leave a good taste. And because when I saw some of these guys who were on the ground just pounding this guy on the ground, I thought, "Wow, was that me in the street once upon a time when I was young?" Uh, and I said... So a lot of, a lot of it, that I didn't want to take their livelihood from them because I didn't want to hurt them to the point where they couldn't make a living, if they were married, if they were s- you know. So I always had that in my, in my mind, in my heart, that to me, it was a sport. When somebody hit the ground, I said, "Get back up." I pinned a lot of people, but to hit them on the ground, I just said, "Get back up, this-"

    5. JR

      Yeah, but it's an important part of fighting.

    6. BU

      That's right.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. BU

      That's right. But again, you know, the, the fight game, again, there's a difference between the fight and the art of sport. Because in the art of sport, I mean, you do a lot of that on concrete and wood-

    9. JR

      Mm-hmm

    10. BU

      ... whole different ballgame on the mats because there's two different flavors of understanding: one, protecting in the street and hitting that kind of ground, and so forth. Because a lot of times at the internationals, it was concrete. That was in '64, '65, how we fought, on concrete, taking down on sweeps, but letting them back up. There was a code of honor. Even though we swept and, uh, took them to the ground, you know, and some will reverse punch to the ground and then let them back up. But again, uh, I just think that sometimes when you're on the ground, and there's somebody's livelihood, you know, you're thrashing. And the idea, okay, I understand what it takes, you know, to hold that hand up as a winner and what it takes of the rules, but, uh, I've always got, uh, turned around when I see somebody jumping on somebody.

    11. JR

      Yeah, that's understandable, considering in your day, that wasn't-- that was frowned upon.

    12. BU

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. BU

      So-

    15. JR

      But today, it's-

    16. BU

      Yeah

    17. JR

      ... one of the most important parts of the sport.

    18. BU

      Yeah.

    19. WR

      Yeah. But as for me, I'll tell you, so, you know, y- you mentioned how it felt to be a pioneer, a true pioneer on the front end. I, I feel privileged to be a part of that, to be... I mean, it was such a robust time. It was, it was so exciting. It was rich. There was richness in the air. We were thriving. We were pushing. You know, first, it was that, the trip to Hawaii, where, where we end up in a semi-comedy thing, where y- you're, if you don't knock them out, you're not gonna win. Well, by the way, when we got to the airport, Dana Goodson was caddying there. He was taking the luggage, and he seen us, and he, "Hey, you guys double-teamed me." [chuckles] You know what I'm saying?

    20. BU

      [chuckles]

    21. WR

      But, but it was just... The atmosphere was rich. The, the- it was thriving. It was, it was special. It was a special time, you know what I mean? And, and, and so I didn't want to cheat the game 'cause I, I knew for a fact that condition was king, being in tip-top shape. 'Cause it's one thing being in shape, but being in tip-top condition, man, you almost could radar what someone's gonna throw. You could catch it, you could see it, you could feel it, you know? So, so being on the front end, even though, you know, we got limited recognition-... it wasn't always about the recognition. It was about the art, it was about, it was about life, it was about how you treat people. And, and I'm grateful, Joe. I'm grateful because still today, it's about people, it's about service, it's about, it's about being able to open a door, give an opportunity, and touch a life. In the same way, you know, Benny's talking about, you know, the emotion and, and, and, and, you know, what that allows, uh, to happen to an ind- uh, an individual's life. Well, we're approaching it in a multi-pronged approach. You see what I'm saying?

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. WR

      Where the, the basic needs of opportunity, that a lot of people don't get a second look. It's just like, next, next, next. You take the time to talk to them, you know what I mean? And, and, and I wanna say this, I wanna say this: you wear humility so extremely well. It's real-- I mean, I mean, I'm just saying, Joe, you know what I mean? That, that's what, that's what I f- sense. That's what I discern in my spirit, and I've been running the race a long time, Joe. I've been running the race a long time, and there's, there's an anointing that breaks the yoke of bondage. There's an anointing, and it flows, Joe. And I, I- if I left here without saying that, I would, I would be so disappointed in myself. But anyways, I, I-

    24. JR

      Well, my, my humility is honest.

    25. WR

      No, I, I-

    26. JR

      I mean, I know who I am, and-

    27. WR

      Yeah

    28. JR

      ... I'm just a person like everybody else.

    29. WR

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      And the, the beautiful thing about martial arts is it, it teaches you that.

Episode duration: 1:59:18

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode ptyq6CITuyM

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome