JRE MMA Show #45 with Justin Wren & Rafael Lovato Jr.

1. 0:01 – 1:20

   Lovato’s Bellator run, UFC aspirations, and starting MMA at 31

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Five, four, three, two, one. Boom, and we're live with my friend, Justin Wren in the house, and one of the baddest motherfuckers on the planet-

   2. RJRafael Lovato Jr.0:12

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      ... Rafael Lovato.

   4. RJRafael Lovato Jr.0:14

      Absolutely.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Dude, I'm bummed that you're f- I'm happy that you're doing well, but I'm bummed you're fighting for Bellator.

   6. RJRafael Lovato Jr.0:19

      Aw.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      I really am, man. I wanna, I wanna commentate your fights. I, I know for a fact that Bellator right now is like, is, is high, it's a higher level than it's ever been before.

   8. RJRafael Lovato Jr.0:29

      Right.

   9. JWJustin Wren0:29

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       I mean, you look at,they've got Mousasi, you, Rory MacDonald, uh, Lima, uh, you know-

   11. RJRafael Lovato Jr.0:37

       Machida's about to fight.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       ... Paul Daley, Machida. I mean, it's fucking high level now, man. It's like Bellator is, uh, very close to comparable. Still, I would love to see you over in the UFC.

   13. RJRafael Lovato Jr.0:49

       Yeah? Well, we'll see what happens. But right now, I'm, I'm really happy where I'm at.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       How old are you now?

   15. RJRafael Lovato Jr.0:53

       I'm 35.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       And you d- didn't start MMA until you were, like, 31, 32?

   17. RJRafael Lovato Jr.0:58

       Yes, 31. I was, four, four years ago.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Yeah.

   19. RJRafael Lovato Jr.1:00

       2014 was my first fight.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Were you doing a lot of MMA training before that? Because y- y- when you're, you were ... For people that don't know, you're one of the most accomplished Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts in the world, and when you were competing as, uh, Brazilian jiu-jitsu martial artist, were you training striking? Were you training other things as well?

2. 1:20 – 4:43

   Jeet Kune Do upbringing and discovering Brazilian jiu-jitsu in Oklahoma

   1. RJRafael Lovato Jr.1:20

      Well, uh, you know, that's, uh, kind of my life story, I guess. Um, you know, um, uh, my father is a lifetime martial artist, and so I had a whole martial arts upgr- uh, upbringing well before I ever found out about Brazilian jiu-jitsu. My father was a Jeet Kune Do instructor, and so growing up, um, you know, the main thing that we were training in when I was a child was, uh, the Jeet Kune Do system, uh, which was basically mixed martial arts before mixed martial arts. You know, uh, Bruce Lee's philosophy was way ahead of his time. He believed in, um, you know, learning from all the arts and creating your own personal system of self-defense, um, that involved, you know, each range of combat. And so, you know, I grew up doing, uh, several different forms of martial arts, um, uh, boxing, Muay Thai, Escrima, Wing Chun, Penjak Silat. I mean, you name it, I've probably done it. And when my father discovered Brazilian jiu-jitsu, uh, I was an early teenager, like around 12 years old. He learned about Brazilian jiu-jitsu in one of the Jeet Kune Do instructor conferences that takes place in California. They brought in the Gracies. Um, they had, you know, they did, like, shoot fighting and different sort of, you know, martial arts incl- that included grappling, uh, but it was very, you know, rough and not n- near the, th- the technique that, that Brazilian jiu-jitsu has. Uh, so whenever he first started learning Brazilian jiu-jitsu, he fell in love with it. My dad's a s- a smaller guy. Uh, at that time, he was probably, like, 145, 150 pounds, and so it was perfect for him, and he fell in love with it, and he comes home and he starts telling me about Brazilian jiu-jitsu and teaching me what he learned. Um, and we lived in Oklahoma, and the instructor conference was in California. At that time, basically the only jiu-jitsu was in California, maybe a little bit in Florida, and then Renzo was in New York. So everything was as far as possible from us because we were right there in the middle of the country. And, you know, he fell in love with Brazilian jiu-jitsu and so he started making trips to California to learn Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and I was just a teenager. I'm a young kid, so, you know, I was already, uh, doing some boxing at the time. Uh, I was competing in amateur boxing, and I'm, I'm used to training with adults, and once I started learning Brazilian jiu-jitsu, you know, i- I fell in love with it right away because that gave me something that I could do where I could be competitive with the adults right away. You know? I was a long, lanky kid, um, and the guard just, you know, felt natural to me, and just being on the ground, I really loved it and I loved that the, the technique of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, how, how technical it was and, and the science of it. Um, so I fell in love with it right away, and I mean, uh, we, we sacrificed a lot to learn jiu-jitsu being in Oklahoma. Um, always traveled, uh, to learn. The first time I went to Brazil I was 16 years old.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:12

      Wow.

   3. RJRafael Lovato Jr.4:12

      It was in 1999, uh, to, to train and compete in the world championships. And, you know, we just never stopped, and, and we became the first American father and son Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts. Uh, but, you know, going back to your question, the, the full spectrum of martial arts was always in my blood, um, you know. Even as, uh, a jiu-jitsu competitor, you know, someone that found his passion in jiu-jitsu, I still considered myself a martial artist first and foremost, not just a, a jiu-jitsu practitioner.

3. 4:43 – 6:14

   Chasing BJJ history: Worlds gold, dominance era, and losing the hunger

   1. RJRafael Lovato Jr.4:43

      And so it was always in the plans to one day do MMA, um, but I really wanted to go as far as I could in, in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. You know, I was there when BJ Penn won the world championships in 2000, and I watched him win and I said, "You know, man, I really wanna be the next American to, to win the worlds." That immediately became, like, my, my big life goal, my first life goal, and, uh, and I achieved that in 2007, but, you know, I ... Like, we all saw BJ go straight to MMA after he won. He never even did another tournament, you know? That was the only tournament he ever did as a black belt was the worlds. And he won and then, and then switched to MMA, and so I really wanted to be an American, you know, um, just kind of representing for us in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Um, competing at that high level and winning as much as possible, and kind of ... You know, at that time, it wasn't like today. You know, the worlds were still in Brazil, um, uh, th- the sport was just dominated by Brazilians and pretty much still is today, but, you know, now we've, we've come a long way. And I just wanted to be that force to show everyone, like, "Hey, we can do it." You know what I mean? We're, uh, w- you know, it's possible, you know, because at that time, it was, it was, um, a whole nother scene, you know? The world's in Brazil. At the end of the, at the tournament, you're lucky if you had a handful of non-Brazilians on the podium at all the belts, you know, including blue, purple, brown, I mean, all the belts, let alone black belt. And so I, I stayed in the sport to really try to get a second gold. That was the, the main thing that was keeping me in it, um, to win a second gold at the worlds as a black belt.

4. 6:14 – 8:46

   From BJJ comfort to MMA calling: why he finally switched

   1. RJRafael Lovato Jr.6:14

      Uh, I ended up medaling eight times. Never got that second gold, but, uh, towards the end, I was just like, "You know?"... it's time to, to switch, you know. I really felt like, um, MMA was calling me. Jiu-jitsu was getting a little too comfortable, um, you know, and I'd been fight-

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:31

      A lit- a little too comfortable?

   3. RJRafael Lovato Jr.6:32

      Yeah, like, it wasn't motivating me and inspiring me the same way that it was in the beginning. You know, I kind of lost a little bit of that hunger, uh, just because I'd been at the, the, that level for so long and I've already, you know, competed against the, the best guys of my generation so many times. And, uh, you know, it didn't take a lot for me to, to get ready, you know. I was kind of just used to it, you know.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:55

      Mm-hmm.

   5. RJRafael Lovato Jr.6:55

      It was the same tournaments, the same season, year after year.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:58

      Same guys.

   7. RJRafael Lovato Jr.6:58

      And it was just... Yeah, same guys. Uh, it, it just stopped bringing out the fire. Now, every now and then I felt it, you know, especially when I went back to compete in Brazil. Uh, you know, the world switched to the US in, in 2007, the year that I won it, and so I, I stopped having that thing to, to push me to go to Brazil to compete. Um, and so I went back a couple of times to compete in the Brazilian Nationals and I had really good performances there. I ended up winning the absolute in 2013 in Brazil, uh, the, the all weight class division. Uh, became the first non-Brazilian to ever win a major absolute title, and I did it in Brazil. That was the day I was extremely inspired, you know. Uh, competing in Brazil brought that out of me. But, uh, I just didn't feel that way all the time, you know. Uh, just got too used to it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:45

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RJRafael Lovato Jr.7:45

      And so I just felt like it was calling me. You know, I knew one day I was gonna do it. I had to have one fight, just as a martial artist. I had to do at least one before it was all said and done, and I really just kind of took it as a one fight basis, you know. Like, I knew I needed to do it once and, you know, uh, the time felt right, like, "Okay, let's, let's go. Let's switch back in, uh, to, you know, kind of tapping into who I was as a martial artist." The, the training that I had as a kid, as a child, um, under my father, under the, the Jeet Kune Do system. And, um, and I did one fight and I, I enjoyed it and I said, "I gotta do more and I gotta do at least one more."

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:25

       So were you... The whole time you were doing jiu-jitsu, were you training in kickboxing at all? Were you doing any wrestling? Like...

   11. RJRafael Lovato Jr.8:30

       Well, always, uh, did wrestling, you know, to supplement-

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:34

       As a part of your training?

   13. RJRafael Lovato Jr.8:34

       Yeah. Supplement Brazilian jiu-jitsu to the NoGi competitions-

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:37

       Mm-hmm.

   15. RJRafael Lovato Jr.8:37

       ... ADCC, things like that, um, you know, and I just believed in training everything. To judo as well, um-

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:43

       But, like, what about practicing ground and pound and all the other things in MMA?

5. 8:46 – 17:55

   Building an MMA striking system: Curitiba camps and Evolutao Thai

   1. RJRafael Lovato Jr.8:46

      Well, whenever I was younger, uh, my father, he had some fighters, uh, that he was training and so I trained a lot with them, and then whenever I took over the academy, um, we had a couple guys that were fighting then as well. Uh, one of which went to the UFC. And so I was sparring with these guys, uh, helping them get ready and in 2008, I met who is now, uh, my main MMA coach, uh, he's my Muay Thai instructor, uh, his name is Mauricio Amado, uh, his nickname is Veio. He is brothers of Andre Dida, um, and they are both shoe box-

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:23

      Is that why you were in Curitiba? You've done-

   3. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:24

      Yes.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:24

      ... camps-

   5. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:25

      Yes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:26

      ... out there?

   7. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:26

      Exactly. That's where Dida lives.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:27

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:27

      His brother. And, uh, di-

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:29

       Did used to fight in Pride.

   11. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:31

       Uh, K1, uh, I think he did-

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:33

       Oh, was it K1?

   13. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:33

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:34

       Okay.

   15. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:34

       K1, um, he did, uh-

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:36

       Fought in Japan.

   17. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:36

       Dream, I believe-

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:37

       Oh, okay.

   19. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:38

       He did some MMA as well. Uh, but he's more of a, of a-

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:41

       Kickboxer.

   21. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:42

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:42

       Yeah.

   23. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:42

       Striker. Um, and I, I met, uh, Mauricio and, uh, I, I really fell in love with his style of Muay Thai, and I had some guys fighting at that time.

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:55

       What's the difference in his style?

   25. RJRafael Lovato Jr.9:57

       Well, it's, it's totally designed for MMA. Um, you know, it's not Muay Thai for Muay Thai, you know. Uh, they, they call their system Evolutao Thai. Uh, basically means evolution, you know.

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:10

       Mm-hmm.

   27. RJRafael Lovato Jr.10:11

       And it's evolved into this system that is designed for MMA, you know. You're, you're not just training striking for striking, you're doing striking to set up take downs or defend take downs, and, um, it was just a, you know, an incredible system. Justin, whenever we fought last year, he, he got to train with Mauricio, um, and, and experience it for himself.

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:31

       Something special.

   29. RJRafael Lovato Jr.10:32

       Yeah. A- and Mauricio himself is just an amazing martial artist, uh, you know, the, the passion that he has is...

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:41

       You can't get him to stop.
6. 17:55 – 23:27

   Shoot Boxe sparring culture, gym-war stories, and managing damage

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:55

      Now, Shoot To Box is known for some of the roughest sparring ever. I mean, it was old school, the way they used to do it. Do they still spar like that? Because it used to be just gym wars. I mean, and the, the criticism was that a lot of these guys were... They were damaging themselves so badly in training that they were limiting their careers.

   2. RJRafael Lovato Jr.18:16

      Yeah. Uh, I, I would say they learned from that, um, a little bit. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:19

      A little bit? (laughs)

   4. RJRafael Lovato Jr.18:20

      But, uh, it's, it's definitely, it's definitely hardcore.

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:23

      Yeah.

   6. RJRafael Lovato Jr.18:23

      Um, go- down in Curitiba. And that's one of the reasons that I, that I like it so much. It gets me out of my comfort zone, and you feel that energy every day, you know. You wake up and you kind of have to process what you're about to, to go to-

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:37

      Yeah.

   8. RJRafael Lovato Jr.18:37

      ... you know, in the professional training every morning. Um, but it's, it's-

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:42

      How often do you spar down there?

   10. RJRafael Lovato Jr.18:43

       There's some version of sparring almost every day.

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:46

       Wow.

   12. RJRafael Lovato Jr.18:46

       Basically every day. Um, but it, it's a different aspect. You might be boxing only.

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:51

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RJRafael Lovato Jr.18:51

       There's a Muay Thai-only day. There's, uh, MMA sparring. There's, you know, grappling with ground and pound and wall, wall work. You know, um, it's-

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:00

       It's interesting because there's so many different philosophies when it comes to how often you should spar.

   16. RJRafael Lovato Jr.19:05

       There is. Um, you know, and, and there are definitely days where I have to kind of speak up and say, "You know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull back just a little bit today, uh, just depending on what my body feels." Uh, I try to listen to that as much as possible. Um-

   17. GUGuest19:19

       Aren't you sparring partners with, like, Wanderlei down there still sometimes?

   18. RJRafael Lovato Jr.19:22

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:22

       Fuck all that. (laughs)

   20. GUGuest19:25

       (laughs)

   21. RJRafael Lovato Jr.19:25

       (laughs) Yeah, actually this-

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:26

       I'll talk to people about that and they're like, "You don't spar Wanderlei, you just fight him."

   23. RJRafael Lovato Jr.19:30

       Right. Uh, this scar right here, uh, is happened in Curitiba sparring with Wanderlei.

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       Yeah.

   25. RJRafael Lovato Jr.19:35

       Um, you know, y- you get com- more comfortable with it. And the guys are awesome. I mean, the, they are definitely my MMA family down there.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:43

       That's just the way they do it.

   27. RJRafael Lovato Jr.19:45

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:45

       It's not a, it's not a personal thing.

   29. RJRafael Lovato Jr.19:46

       No.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:46

       It's not like they're trying to hurt you.
7. 23:27 – 40:22

   Khabib vs Conor aftermath: brawl breakdown, accountability, and promotion ethics

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:27

      You know, he's always practicing kung fu, but he's a very, very unusual guy. Like there's all this talk about a Conor rematch 'cause financially that would be a fantastic fight, right? Financially. But when you look at what happened, that was a dominant victory.

   2. GUGuest23:40

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:40

      I mean, there was one round where Conor did pretty good, the third round. Other than that, Khabib just sort of dominated him.

   4. RJRafael Lovato Jr.23:47

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan23:47

      I mean, dropped him in the second, beat the fucking shit out of him in the fourth and the third was a round where Conor did pretty good 'cause most of it was standing up.

   6. RJRafael Lovato Jr.23:54

      I think he won that round, right? Was that the first round Khabib ever lost?

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:58

      Yeah. Yeah, I think that was. Yeah. But I mean, it wasn't he won it, like, running away.

   8. GUGuest24:02

      Right. Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:02

      It wasn't like that he blasted him in the body, had him hurt and, you know, there was nothing like that.

   10. RJRafael Lovato Jr.24:06

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan24:06

       It was just he edged him. It's hard to make... I mean, I guess you could say that's the same thing that sort of happened in the Nate Diaz fight and then Conor came back and won the rematch, so this is the argument. The argument is Conor was rusty, he's out of the cage for two years, he gets back in, let's do a re-... And then financially, Jesus Christ, I mean, it was the biggest fight of all time. They're saying it was above 2.4 million pay-per-view buys.

   12. GUGuest24:29

       Wow.

   13. JRJoe Rogan24:30

       Which is fucking bananas.

   14. GUGuest24:31

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan24:31

       That's, that's huge. So if it's bigger than that and then they ha-... If they can talk people into a rematch, I get it, but I don't want to see that. I want to see Tony.

   16. GUGuest24:41

       Tony. Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan24:41

       I want to see Tony and Khabib.

   18. RJRafael Lovato Jr.24:43

       Tony earned it.

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:43

       Yeah. And-

   20. RJRafael Lovato Jr.24:43

       He's more than earned it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan24:44

       And the-

   22. GUGuest24:44

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan24:44

       ... Khabib, the, the suspension, let him give a little money to somebody, come on.

   24. GUGuest24:49

       (laughs)

   25. RJRafael Lovato Jr.24:50

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:50

       What's the re-... The... My, my take on it, like-

   27. GUGuest24:53

       Putting it there for him.

   28. JRJoe Rogan24:53

       ... would ke- you know, this, the, the whole thing is fucked. It's not professional.

   29. GUGuest24:58

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan24:58

       It shouldn't happen, but neither should people be fucking screaming shit at him while he's fighting.
8. 40:22 – 54:27

   Dagestan and honor culture: why some places don’t “play” with disrespect

   1. JRJoe Rogan40:22

      This is...

   2. JWJustin Wren40:22

      You see the videos afterwards when Dagestan, where they're shooting off UZIs and AK47s?

   3. JRJoe Rogan40:27

      Dude! Yeah.

   4. JWJustin Wren40:27

      So I wrestled there, uh, when I was like 18. Um, wrestled there, and it was crazy. They were taking us around everywhere in G Wagons and the ones in front of us had like armed, uh, I don't know, machine guns on top of them. The one behind us, armed with machine guns on top of them.

   5. JRJoe Rogan40:40

      Oh. (laughs)

   6. JWJustin Wren40:41

      Um, and then what was it? We were, we were walking through one of the streets, and there's these big chains that are in between the road and the sidewalk. And we're walking down the sidewalk and all of a sudden there's like a laser that comes over and, uh, and our guys are like, "We gotta go, we gotta go." All of a sudden a car came up onto the sidewalk, started driving like they were going to plow us down. We had to jump into the road-

   7. JRJoe Rogan41:02

      Whoa.

   8. JWJustin Wren41:02

      ... to not get hit. And, uh, I don't know why that happened, but after that we weren't allowed... Our, uh, the hotel we were in, we had like balconies to where we could look out. Well, they had to move our rooms to where we were inside to where we couldn't have a balcony and everything else, to where the, just because of that threat. Because of the laser that came. Because of the truck that came up onto the sidewalk and tried to run us over. Um-

   9. JRJoe Rogan41:25

      There was some crazy rumor that someone got arrested outside of the, uh, T-Mobile Arena. See if that's true. If someone got arrested with a gun outside the T-Mobile Arena on, after the fight or during the fight. 'Cause there was, there was some sort of crazy talk about threats. The problem is you don't know how much of that's bullshit.

   10. JWJustin Wren41:45

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan41:45

       You know? I mean, I probably should've researched that before we talked about it, but... You see anything? Bullshit? I don't, do they, they post that? No, no, no.

   12. JWJustin Wren41:56

       I heard the same thing, though.

   13. JRJoe Rogan41:57

       You heard it too?

   14. JWJustin Wren41:57

       I heard it, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan41:58

       Yeah. Yeah, I think I heard it on, uh, Instagram.

   16. JWJustin Wren42:01

       But yeah, they don't play around. They're honor-

   17. JRJoe Rogan42:03

       Bro, the Russians-

   18. JWJustin Wren42:03

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan42:03

       ... it's a different world, man.

   20. JWJustin Wren42:05

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan42:05

       Especially Dagestan. That's a hard part of the country.

   22. JWJustin Wren42:08

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan42:08

       Not that Dublin isn't hard, but it's like that, they're not known for their, uh, humor and shit talking.

   24. JWJustin Wren42:17

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan42:17

       (laughs)

   26. JWJustin Wren42:17

       Yeah, well, I, I... (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan42:18

       (laughs)

   28. JWJustin Wren42:19

       Well, I, I, I went into a store (laughs) . I went into a store, like a little market, uh, and I was whistling in Dagestan. And I didn't know that that was something disrespectful. But someone came right up behind me and just slapped me on the back of the head. Like an older man.

   29. JRJoe Rogan42:31

       Oh, (laughs) .

   30. JWJustin Wren42:31

       Like an older man. Probably like Khabib's dad came up. And I knew that he was a bad dude, so I wasn't gonna do anything. I just didn't know. Translator had to come up and say, "You don't whistle in public." You know?
9. 54:27 – 1:02:13

   Who controls titles? Ali Act, sanctioning bodies, and USADA as a model

   1. JRJoe Rogan54:27

      I- I mean, look, I love the UFC obviously. I've been working for the UFC forever. But I think there's an obvious conflict of interest when the promoter is also responsible for who holds titles-

   2. JWJustin Wren54:40

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan54:40

      ... and who gets to fight for titles. It's weird, you know. I mean, in every other sport, there's like a sanctioning body-

   4. JWJustin Wren54:48

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan54:48

      ... that decides this is, you know... Rafael Lovato won five fights in a row. He's the undisputed number one contender. He will be next in line for the title. You know, not, "Oh, Logan Paul sold five million YouTube buys." (laughs)

   6. JWJustin Wren55:03

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan55:03

      "He's next." You know what I mean?

   8. JWJustin Wren55:04

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan55:04

      It's like it's weird. Like it's, it's weird that commerce... I mean, it plays a giant part in any sport-

   10. JWJustin Wren55:12

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan55:12

       ... right? But should it be the ultimate decider in what, what happens and what doesn't happen?

   12. JWJustin Wren55:18

       Would you ever support the Muhammad Ali Act coming over to MMA?

   13. JRJoe Rogan55:21

       I don't know exactly how that act is structured. What does, what does, what does it say?

   14. JWJustin Wren55:25

       I don't know a lot about it, but I know that, um... I believe the Muhammad Ali Act-

   15. JRJoe Rogan55:29

       Let's pull it up so we can-

   16. JWJustin Wren55:30

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan55:30

       ... we could talk about it from an educated perspective.

   18. JWJustin Wren55:32

       Yeah. For sure. I think that the promoters have to split 50% of the revenue with the fighters, I think.

   19. JRJoe Rogan55:37

       Is that what it says?

   20. JWJustin Wren55:38

       Oh, I think so. Um, I think, uh, that is part of it and then-

   21. JRJoe Rogan55:41

       They would start doing that Hollywood, uh, arithmetic.

   22. JWJustin Wren55:44

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan55:44

       Like, you know, you know that Hollywood arithmetic, like when, when a movie comes out... Do you know how that works?

   24. JWJustin Wren55:49

       No.

   25. JRJoe Rogan55:50

       Dude, it's hilarious. When they... Uh, people who have written movies and produced movies and so... And, and dealt with, with studios, they factor in all this other shit-... like, this is how much my car costs, this is how much the, it costs for gas. This is how much (laughs) it costs to rent this building, this is electricity. Oh, there's no more money left over.

   26. GUGuest56:10

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan56:10

       Okay, here it says, "The Ali Act Amending Professional Boxing Safety Act of 1996 specifies that a sanctioning organization may not receive any compensation from a boxing mast- match unless it files its bylaws and a complete description of its ratings criteria, policies, and general sanctioning fee scheduled with the FTC. The act further directs the FTC to make this information available to the public. A sanctioning organization does not have to submit this information to the FTC, however, it makes the information accessible through a public website." All right, if you can translate that. I don't know what the fuck that means.

   28. GUGuest56:48

       Yeah, I don't... I don't know. I've, I've heard that part, which I'm, I'm not sure that that's specific though, splitting the revenue. Um, but then I also think it takes out of the promoter's hands, uh-

   29. JRJoe Rogan56:57

       What does that say? Look at that, where it says, "Law 15 U.S." And what is that fucking double squiggle shit? What is that?

   30. GUGuest57:03

       (laughs)
10. 1:02:13 – 1:09:13

    Tournament formats, PFL/Bellator incentives, and a detour into legendary eating feats

    1. JWJustin Wren1:02:13

       What, what do you think about tournaments coming back to the UFC? Or, I mean, they haven't done that, but what do you think about them doing that for finding out who's going to fight for the title? Bellator is doing it now.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:02:21

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JWJustin Wren1:02:22

       PFL's been doing it. My buddy, Josh Copeland, uh, just made it to... He was ranked eighth seed, um, came in, fought two times one night.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:02:29

       Right.

    5. JWJustin Wren1:02:30

       Um, and, uh-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:02:30

       And Vini Magalhaes as well, right?

    7. GUGuest1:02:32

       Yeah, yeah.

    8. JWJustin Wren1:02:32

       Yep, yep. And that was an awesome triangle.

    9. GUGuest1:02:33

       He went two beautiful submissions last-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:35

        Dude! He's like one of the most underappreciated guys in MMA.

    11. GUGuest1:02:38

        Turned on the camera.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:38

        You know, because-

    13. GUGuest1:02:39

        Yeah, one of the few that can jump guard. (imitates fighting noises)

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:02:41

        And you're fucked, man.

    15. GUGuest1:02:42

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:02:42

        That guy wraps his legs around you. He just had a rocky start because his striking-

    17. GUGuest1:02:47

        Wasn't there yet.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:47

        ... wasn't there.

    19. GUGuest1:02:48

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:48

        But now it is.

    21. GUGuest1:02:49

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:49

        I mean, he's head-kicking people and knocking them out, you know?

    23. JWJustin Wren1:02:51

        Did you see, uh, did you see Josh Copeland's, uh, knockout at heavyweight? Uh, it was one of the best knockouts at heavyweight in a long time.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:57

        No, I didn't see it. I didn't see it.

    25. JWJustin Wren1:02:58

        In a long time. It's on my Instagram if, uh, you're able to pull that up, Jamie. It's, uh... Please, it's, um, on my Instagram and it was awesome. He got the deepest cut, one of the deepest cuts I've ever seen in my life. You could see his skull.

    26. GUGuest1:03:09

        (laughs)

    27. JWJustin Wren1:03:09

        Um, and it went, it went farther than his eyebrow.

    28. GUGuest1:03:12

        Oh.

    29. JWJustin Wren1:03:12

        And, uh, he got cut probably five seconds before he gets the knockout punch. And if he wouldn't have got that, they would have stopped it.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:03:19

        Oh, no.

Episode duration: 2:03:33