JRE MMA Show #78 with Andre Ward

Narrator 0:00 (music)

Joe Rogan 0:01 Two, one, boom. (book slams) Andre Ward, ladies and gentlemen. How are you, brother?

Andre Ward 0:05 I'm good, man. How you doing?

Joe Rogan 0:06 Thank you very much for doing this, man. I'm a big fan, so I was very excited to do this.

Andre Ward 0:09 Appreciate you having me.

Joe Rogan 0:10 You did it. In terms of, like, if you're a young fighter and you got aspirations, what do you wanna do? You wanna be an Olympic gold medalist, you wanna win multiple world titles, two division world champion-

Andre Ward 0:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:22 ... and you retired undefeated. You, you're the w- one, you're like a unicorn, man.

Andre Ward 0:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:27 You're a rare dude because-

Andre Ward 0:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:29 ... you retired at 35, right?

Andre Ward 0:31 33.

Joe Rogan 0:31 33.

Andre Ward 0:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:32 That's crazy. Like, you're in the peak of your athletic abilities and you go, "You know what? (smacks lips) Did enough."

Andre Ward 0:39 I'm out.

Joe Rogan 0:40 Yeah.

Andre Ward 0:42 I mean, it, it sound, it sounds all neat and buttoned up, uh, but it wasn't, it wasn't that easy. Like, I, I didn't know how things were gonna go throughout the course of my career. Um, but for whatever reason, like, I always, even as a young kid, and I'm talking 10 years old, like, I had this thought, like, you know, "I don't wanna end up like a lot of fighters end up." Like, they seem to go high, really high, and then all of a sudden they come crashing down. Like, they start well, but they don't end well.

Joe Rogan 1:08 Yeah.

Andre Ward 1:09 And that's what, that's what drew me to Roy Jones Jr. Um, country boy, had swag, and he'd always talk about himself in the third person. He'd be like, "Man, you know, Roy Jones, I don't," you know-

Joe Rogan 1:18 (laughs)

Andre Ward 1:18 "... I don't love the sport like that, man. I'ma get in and get out. I'm just special at it and I'ma be fishing on my farm one, you know, one day in Pensacola, Florida." And I was like, "Man, this dude is different. Fighters don't talk like that."

Joe Rogan 1:28 Hmm.

Andre Ward 1:28 So he was the first one that gave me the thought of getting in and getting out. And then, again, I just, I just studied it throughout the course of my career. Even other athletes and entertainers, like I just, I was enamored by it. So that was always a goal. Just as much as I wanted to win a gold medal, world championship, I wanted to leave on top when people were asking, "Why are you leaving?"

Joe Rogan 1:47 Yeah. Well, it's so difficult to make that decision, though. For f- so, I mean, Roy Jones Jr didn't even make that decision.

Andre Ward 1:53 He didn't.

Joe Rogan 1:54 He said he was gonna do it and then, I mean, he had some rough knockouts. It was-

Andre Ward 1:58 Late in his career.

Joe Rogan 2:00 Yeah, hard to watch.

Andre Ward 2:01 So-

Joe Rogan 2:01 That, uh, uh, some of them that people even, didn't even see.

Andre Ward 2:03 Yeah, yeah. Heartbreaking.

Joe Rogan 2:05 Yes.

Andre Ward 2:05 Especially if you've followed him and supported him like I have, um-

Joe Rogan 2:08 Especially if you know his decision was based on Gerald McClellan, a lot of it was.

Andre Ward 2:12 Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12 When Gerald McClellan, uh, for people who don't know, was a murderer, man. I mean, he was a savage light heavyweight. But he caught, he was cutting a lot of weight-

Andre Ward 2:21 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:21 ... and, um, you know, he wound up having a serious brain injury-

Andre Ward 2:25 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:26 ... in, in, in that epic fight with Nigel Benn-

Andre Ward 2:28 Nigel Benn, yep.

Joe Rogan 2:29 ... which is an amazing, amazing fight.

Andre Ward 2:30 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:30 Benn got off the deck, it looked like the fight was over.

Andre Ward 2:33 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:33 'Cause Gerald McClellan would just murk people, man.

Andre Ward 2:35 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 2:36 Uh, to, uh, to like a prototypical Kronk destroyer.

Andre Ward 2:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:39 You know? And-

Andre Ward 2:40 Big right hand.

Joe Rogan 2:40 Woo. Tall, strong as fuck, uh, super aggressive, knockout striker. And for whatever reason, Roy, um, decided, "You know what? Let's just keep doing it."

Andre Ward 2:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:52 "Fuck it."

Andre Ward 2:53 It's a lot of different reasons why people do that, man. I, I just didn't wanna be one of them, simple, simply-

Joe Rogan 2:57 Yeah.

Andre Ward 2:57 ... put. Um, but it is, like the retirement is coming up on two years, September 21st. Um, it's harder than I thought it was gonna be. One of the most hardest things I've ever had to do, but one of the most rewarding. And the way I reconcile it in my brain is that, "Okay, at some point, I'ma have to do this. At some point, I'ma have to face the emotions and, and the pull to come back and, you know, trying to figure out if your body can still do it." And just all the different things you go through, whether I'm in my prime or whether I'm 40, 45 years old. So you, you can't avoid it, it's just when do you wanna take, take on th- that task?

Joe Rogan 3:28 So you retired at 33, so you're 35 now.

Andre Ward 3:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:31 So goddamn, man, you're right there. I mean, you have, like, four more years to be ... unless you're Bernard Hopkins-

Andre Ward 3:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:37 ... then you have another decade. (laughs)

Andre Ward 3:38 But to Bernard's credit, he started late.

Joe Rogan 3:40 He did.

Andre Ward 3:40 Bernard started at 20 some years old in Grady for state prison.

Joe Rogan 3:43 Yes.

Andre Ward 3:44 I started at nine years old.

Joe Rogan 3:45 Well, also, Bernard developed this insane discipline while he was in prison.

Andre Ward 3:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:49 The, the hardships of prison were so awful-

Andre Ward 3:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:52 ... the feeling of being locked up and contained that he fucked up his life, he was so bound and determined to become something special that, I mean, he's so disciplined.

Andre Ward 4:00 Yeah. Well, e- e- even beyond that, like, he opened up his eyes and he looked at the landscape and he realized that most fighters are not disciplined. Most fighters, they like the idea of being a champion, they like the idea of winning, you know, championships and what that brings, not just the championships or what the championships and the money brings, the, the ladies, the, you know, the partying, all the stuff. And he said, "I'ma do it a different way. Like, these guys are out gaining weight, 20 pounds in between fights. I'ma live like a Spartan." He under ... he got the revelation and he just stuck to it.

Joe Rogan 4:31 Yeah. He ate clean. He-

Andre Ward 4:32 He lived a clean life.

Joe Rogan 4:33 And he fought so disciplined.

Andre Ward 4:35 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:35 He fought so smart. He was one of the best defensive fighters ever, just ... And people didn't like that style, man. He would pop you and grab you, pop you and grab you-

Andre Ward 4:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:43 ... and people would get frustrated, they would get out of composure and they would start doing the things that maybe they shouldn't have done and then he would capitalize on those things. I remember when he fought Trinidad, man. I mean, that, that was-

Andre Ward 4:52 One of my favorite fights.

Joe Rogan 4:53 ... woo. Trinidad was a killer.

Andre Ward 4:55 And I love Tito.

Joe Rogan 4:56 I do too. I mean, he was a killer. I got a chance to see Tito fight live in Vegas once, it was amazing.

Andre Ward 5:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:02 But when Bernard started putting it on him, I was like, "Wow, this is, first of all, you, this is a, like, a legitimate middleweight fighting a guy who's really a welterweight. And this is also a really special fighter who just figures people out."

Andre Ward 5:15 He fought Tito in New York City in Madison Square Garden, which is-

Joe Rogan 5:18 After.

Andre Ward 5:18 ... which is little Puerto Rico.

Joe Rogan 5:19 Yes.

Andre Ward 5:19 Like, uh, you know, I think it was the week of the, the Puerto Rican Day Parade.

Joe Rogan 5:23 Yes. Yes. (laughs)

Andre Ward 5:24 (laughs) Like, and previously to that fight, in Puerto Rico, Bernard Hopkins took the Puerto Rican flag, threw it down, caused a melee, had to run out of there, get snatched out of the arena, wherever they were having the press conference, get thrown on the plane. Like, the, the beef was real.

Joe Rogan 5:39 Oh, yeah.

Andre Ward 5:39 And, uh, to be able to, like, like-... perform under that kind of pressure? Unreal. One of my favorite fights.

Joe Rogan 5:45 It's when he was running away from the crowd in Puerto Rico-

Andre Ward 5:48 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 5:48 ... and you realize like, "Oh, my God. He's on his own here." Like, literally, people are trying to kill him.

Andre Ward 5:52 But what, what, what's even crazier is he knew that was gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 5:55 Yeah. (laughs)

Andre Ward 5:56 Like he knew, "Okay, this is getting ready to happen in three, two, one."

Joe Rogan 5:58 (laughs)

Andre Ward 5:58 Threw the flag down and it was on.

Joe Rogan 6:00 Oh, man. But it worked.

Andre Ward 6:02 It worked.

Joe Rogan 6:02 First of all, it got so many people to pay attention to that fight.

Andre Ward 6:05 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:05 And then two, it got, you know, it got Tito emotional.

Andre Ward 6:09 If he lost that fight, he was back to the back of the bus. If he wins the fight, which he did, he moves on to become-

Joe Rogan 6:15 Greatness.

Andre Ward 6:15 ... Bernard Hopkins did.

Joe Rogan 6:15 Yeah. He moves on to greatness. You know, it's interesting when you watch his style as well, that very technical, very disciplined style, versus Roy's style, which was so athletic and explosive, and very unusual with that-

Andre Ward 6:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:29 ... lead left hook that he would fire off-

Andre Ward 6:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:30 ... more than a jab.

Andre Ward 6:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:31 I mean, Roy had a crazy style.

Andre Ward 6:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:33 And then w- you watch Roy outpoint Bernard early.

Andre Ward 6:37 Yep.

Joe Rogan 6:37 But then Bernard comes back later in his career and really kinda like shut Roy down.

Andre Ward 6:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:42 And showed like i- when the athleticism starts to slip away a little bit, Roy is normal.

Andre Ward 6:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:47 He's a human.

Andre Ward 6:48 He's a human. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:49 Yeah. Whereas Bernard was still this incredibly disciplined-

Andre Ward 6:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:52 ... very well-schooled boxer. It was a real good lesson for fighters-

Andre Ward 6:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:57 ... to see that they're like, this is why you use the fundamentals.

Andre Ward 6:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:59 This is why you fight correctly.

Andre Ward 7:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:01 You can get away with being Roy Jones Jr.

Andre Ward 7:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:03 But Roy Jones Jr., with his physical gifts, I feel like he could've got away with fighting discipline too.

Andre Ward 7:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:08 He could've got away with fighting technically.

Andre Ward 7:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:11 But, he, you know, he just chose to fight his way.

Andre Ward 7:13 Mm-hmm. It worked for a long time.

Joe Rogan 7:15 Oh, yeah.

Andre Ward 7:15 It worked until it didn't work.

Joe Rogan 7:17 But it worked better than anybody. I mean, it was amazing to watch in the day when he was on top.

Andre Ward 7:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:22 You know, when he was knocking out Virgil Hill with body shots and putting his hands behind his back and knocking dudes out, I mean-

Andre Ward 7:26 That was the guy I fell in love with, you know. But he could've ... Roy could've, he could've gone and had a full career and rode off in the sunset and been in Pensacola fishing, hunting, doing whatever he does, and still not really been super fundamentally sound. But, I mean, after he beat John Ruiz for the heavyweight championship of the world, um, and I had been going to multiple Roy fights leading up to that heavyweight fight. Antonio Tarver, who I have a lot of respect for, you know, they were rivals in Florida when they were young, um, Antonio was following Roy around trying to get him to notice him, trying to get him to take a fight. And I remember clear as day in the post-fight press conference after Roy became the heavyweight champion of the world after being the middleweight champion starting at 160, Tar- uh, Antonio Tarver interrupted the press conference. He said, "Roy Jones, you been ducking me. You been running." He's going on and on and on. Roy looks at Tarver and, and gives him the attention that he's been after. And he says, "Ho- ho- ho- ho- ho." He said, "I, I'm gonna whoop you. I'm, I'm gonna whoop you. We gonna make that fight happen." And at that moment, I'm thinking like, "No, Roy, no. Don't do it. You're the heavyweight champion of the world." Tarver was still light heavyweight. And sure enough, Roy went down, stripped off 25 pounds of muscle that he had built up with Macky Shilstone to get ready for the heavyweight fight, went down there, fought a close fight, but he didn't look like himself. Took the rematch. Now, that ... Even after the first fight with Tarver, man, he run for the hills. "You know what? I beat him. I wasn't myself. I'm going back up." Took the rematch and then got knocked out.

Joe Rogan 9:01 Yeah. I didn't ... Uh, that's weird. I thought the re- the first fight was earlier. Now my brain's scrambled here 'cause I thought that that was immediately after the Ruiz fight that he got knocked out.

Andre Ward 9:12 Yeah, it was. He w- he went back down.

Joe Rogan 9:14 Yeah, s- so d-

Andre Ward 9:14 Yeah. So Ruiz, light heavyweight, went down, fought Tarver the first time, then fought the rematch, and then got knocked out the second time.

Joe Rogan 9:19 Oh, so they fought two times in a row?

Andre Ward 9:20 They fought two times in a row and then-

Joe Rogan 9:22 Oh.

Andre Ward 9:22 ... they ended up fighting a third time-

Joe Rogan 9:23 Okay.

Andre Ward 9:23 ... like way down the road.

Joe Rogan 9:24 Did they really? I didn't even know they fought a third time.

Andre Ward 9:27 (laughs) They fought a third time in Florida, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:28 The, the, the loss of the weight was a terrible idea.

Andre Ward 9:30 Can't do that.

Joe Rogan 9:31 And also, let's be realistic about how he put that weight on. It's most likely there was some Mexican supplements involved. And if you're gonna put-

Andre Ward 9:38 Man. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:38 ... that kind of bulk on, you know, I mean, I don't know.

Andre Ward 9:41 Yeah, listen.

Joe Rogan 9:42 I'm ... I'm ... Roy Jones is one of my heroes.

Andre Ward 9:43 Listen.

Joe Rogan 9:43 And it's not, uh, disrespecting.

Andre Ward 9:44 No, I hear you.

Joe Rogan 9:45 But-

Andre Ward 9:46 And, and, and I've heard people say stuff like that, but like I'm ... That's my guy.

Joe Rogan 9:50 I hear you.

Andre Ward 9:50 Like, I'm a kid, so I'm like, "No."

Joe Rogan 9:51 I get it.

Andre Ward 9:51 Like, "I don't believe it."

Joe Rogan 9:52 I know it.

Andre Ward 9:52 You know?

Joe Rogan 9:52 I get it.

Andre Ward 9:53 I, I'm believing that it was just Roy, Macky Shilstone, and hard work. I'm gonna leave it at that.

Joe Rogan 9:58 Uh, it's possible. It's possible. But I mean, what is he like? He was like 33, 34 at the time?

Andre Ward 10:02 He was, he was somewhere around there, yeah. 34, 35.

Joe Rogan 10:03 It is very hard to put 25-

Andre Ward 10:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:06 ... pounds of muscle on.

Andre Ward 10:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:07 Very ... Well, it didn't re- See, he cut weight to make the light heavyweight limit, right? So you got to think, he was probably like 185, 190 maybe.

Andre Ward 10:14 190 probably.

Joe Rogan 10:15 Yeah. And so he really only gained maybe 10, 15 pounds.

Andre Ward 10:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:19 Still, he was lean as fuck.

Andre Ward 10:21 Yeah. He was pretty lean.

Joe Rogan 10:22 It's, it's hard.

Andre Ward 10:22 He was thick though too.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Yeah.

Andre Ward 10:23 Roy had that, Roy had that kind of build.

Joe Rogan 10:25 Oh, he's very muscular.

Andre Ward 10:25 He was country strong.

Joe Rogan 10:26 Yeah.

Andre Ward 10:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:26 Very muscular. I mean, he had crazy biceps and no triceps.

Andre Ward 10:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:30 It was all just whipping left hooks.

Andre Ward 10:32 (laughs)

Guest (secondary) 10:32 S- bicep no tri.

Joe Rogan 10:32 It was weird, right?

Andre Ward 10:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:33 He had a crazy body. I mean-

Andre Ward 10:35 I didn't notice that. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:35 Dude, his, his body was very unusual the way he was built.

Andre Ward 10:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:39 Like, he was all biceps. It was just whipping. You know, he's just from whipping punches-

Andre Ward 10:44 Country strong man.

Joe Rogan 10:44 ... whipping body shots. Yeah. No, he was phenomenal. You got a picture of him, Jamie?

Guest (secondary) 10:48 The TV's turned off.

Joe Rogan 10:49 Yeah. Oh, the TV's are off?

Andre Ward 10:49 Yeah. That's my guy.

Joe Rogan 10:50 No, listen. I'm a gigantic Roy Jones Jr fan.

Andre Ward 10:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:53 But, I mean, I feel like, like that's ... There's one example right there. You see how gigantic his biceps are?

Andre Ward 10:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:59 But you see it almost more while he's fighting.

Andre Ward 11:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:01 I mean, he really had like a body built to hook you.

Andre Ward 11:03 Yep. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:04 What if Jones had remained a heavyweight? I mean, look, he was so goddamn fast. As ... I mean, John Ruiz just was whiffing at air in that fight mostly.

Andre Ward 11:11 Well, the thing about the ... after the Ruiz fight is, (clears throat) you know, we had the same manager, uh, James Prince. There was a Tyson fight on the table. Uh, and I believe I'm accurate when I say this. It was somewhere around 40 million guaranteed.

Joe Rogan 11:25 Whoa.

Andre Ward 11:26 There's an upside too. You stay at heavyweight, keep the weight on, and Tyson wasn't quite Tyson at that time.

Joe Rogan 11:31 Right.

Andre Ward 11:31 Still dangerous, but wasn't quite Tyson. I think they were working toward it. From what I've heard, Roy wanted more money. James Prince was like, "Bro, take this 40 million. There's gonna be an upside. It's you and Mike Tyson. Roy Jones and Mike Tyson." Roy somehow said no. The fight'll be there later on down the road, put his attention toward Antonio Tarver, the rest is history.

Joe Rogan 11:50 Wow.I'm kinda glad he didn't fight Tyson.

Andre Ward 11:53 Yeah. I wanted to see him fight Tyson and ride off in the sunset. (exhales) Uno mas, one more and we're out.

Joe Rogan 11:58 Yeah. But he... I don't think he would have r-... I don't think Roy was ever really gonna ride off in the sunset. He likes being Roy Jones Jr., so-

Andre Ward 12:04 He likes to fight.

Joe Rogan 12:05 Tyson-Jones Head 2003 Fight Card. 2002, is that around when he fought Golota?

Guest (secondary) 12:11 They were supposed to start a HBO Pay-Per-View, and they were supposed to be the first fight on it. And it didn't happen, I guess.

Joe Rogan 12:16 Then what, what... Go to, uh, Mike Tyson's Wikipedia, to his record, 'cause I think that was around the time where he fought Golota. He was still murking people.

Andre Ward 12:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:24 I mean, he wasn't the Mike Tyson, uh, of, you know, the later years.

Andre Ward 12:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:29 He was still-

Andre Ward 12:30 I don't think Tyson fought Golota, did he?

Joe Rogan 12:31 Oh, yeah, he stopped him. Yeah, Golota left the ring. He, he dropped him and hurt him real bad.

Andre Ward 12:36 Andrew Golota?

Joe Rogan 12:36 Yeah. And Golota's like, "Fuck this."

Andre Ward 12:37 Really?

Joe Rogan 12:37 And his, his trainer called him a coward, they... He's yelling, screaming at him. He hit him with one punch and dropped him. And Golota's like, "Fuck this," and he broke something in his neck. He broke his face and something in his neck.

Andre Ward 12:48 Yeah, you gotta look that up.

Guest (secondary) 12:49 That's three years before this. That was 2000.

Joe Rogan 12:51 Oh, okay.

Andre Ward 12:52 You never seen that? I probably did. I don't-

Joe Rogan 12:54 Oh.

Andre Ward 12:54 I don't remember him fighting Tyson.

Joe Rogan 12:55 Yeah. Golota left the ring. He dropped... See, it says, well, RTD, what does that stand for?

Andre Ward 13:02 Retired, like, fighter.

Joe Rogan 13:04 'Cause he quit.

Andre Ward 13:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Yeah. And so the next dude, too. (laughs) Yeah, Mike Tyson was God damn terrifying.

Andre Ward 13:08 Last thing I remember of Andrew Golota is his fights were really low.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Oh, those were crazy.

Andre Ward 13:11 Low blow. Those were crazy. That's the last thing I remember of Golota.

Joe Rogan 13:13 It was crazy. He just decided to keep punching him in the dick.

Andre Ward 13:16 Yeah, he... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:16 Like, I never saw anything like that in my life. Like, he fought him well in the first fight, but was hitting him... He kept hitting him low. Like, whenever things would go bad for him-

Andre Ward 13:24 Looking for a way out.

Joe Rogan 13:25 ... he would just look for a way out.

Andre Ward 13:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:26 And that's what he did with Tyson.

Andre Ward 13:27 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:28 Tyson dropped him. See if you can pull that up.

Guest (secondary) 13:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Pull up the, the KO. 'Cause Tyson hit him with, like, a perfect right hand, boom, dropped him.

Andre Ward 13:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:35 And Golota got up and was like, "Fuck this." His, his corner was screaming at him, and he literally just climbed down the ropes and said, "See ya."

Andre Ward 13:40 That's it.

Joe Rogan 13:41 Just walked back to the dressing room.

Andre Ward 13:42 Y- yeah, some- something was off with Golota, man.

Joe Rogan 13:44 He... Definitely.

Andre Ward 13:45 Something was off.

Joe Rogan 13:46 Well, he was crazy. Like, he had done a lot of crazy-

Andre Ward 13:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:48 ... street shit, too.

Andre Ward 13:49 Yeah. He, he... Look at his background.

Joe Rogan 13:49 And been in a lot of bar fights, and, and stuff like that, too.

Guest (secondary) 13:52 It doesn't seem like he went down, he just quit after the second round. I don't see him going-

Joe Rogan 13:55 No, he's definitely... Well, let's see if you can find the video.

Andre Ward 13:57 I don't remember that fight.

Guest (secondary) 13:57 I'm watching the video. I don't see him falling.

Joe Rogan 13:58 Well, pull it up s- so we can watch it.

Guest (secondary) 13:59 No.

Joe Rogan 13:59 What, are you watching it by yourself? You staying the fuck...

Guest (secondary) 14:01 Yeah, well, I'm trying to interrupt the conversation.

Joe Rogan 14:03 (laughs)

Guest (secondary) 14:03 Oh, there he goes. He went down right here, I guess.

Joe Rogan 14:04 Yo, he went down, man. I remember the fight very clearly.

Guest (secondary) 14:06 This is, uh...

Joe Rogan 14:06 He hit him with a clean right hand.

Guest (secondary) 14:08 Might have been round one, though.

Joe Rogan 14:09 Here, show it. Yo, it was a one-round fight.

Guest (secondary) 14:11 It was a two-round fight.

Joe Rogan 14:12 He, he-

Guest (secondary) 14:12 But I think he went down in the first.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Well... Okay, here it is. Boom.

Andre Ward 14:15 Hit him with that right hand.

Joe Rogan 14:17 So, Golota went down, and at the end, I think it was in between rounds, is when he decided to bail.

Guest (secondary) 14:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:23 I think that's why it's there.

Guest (secondary) 14:24 Yeah, he's ready for the second here. This is the second ending, and he quits. Here, his guys come in.

Joe Rogan 14:30 Yeah, he's just like, "No." Well, we'd have to watch the whole fight.

Andre Ward 14:32 Yeah, I think I remember that, bro. It was the right hand, and then he had pushed the referee off. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:35 Yep, like he's pushing everybody off. He's like, "Fuck you, I'm outta here."

Andre Ward 14:38 He's out.

Joe Rogan 14:38 He knew something was wrong, too. And he had... I think he had a fractured orbital, and I b- I believe there was something wrong with his neck, too.

Andre Ward 14:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:44 Like, it broke a bone in his neck.

Andre Ward 14:47 I don't know, bro. That's Andrew Golota for you, man.

Joe Rogan 14:50 Yeah, he was crazy.

Andre Ward 14:50 He... Yeah. It was some-... It was something off with him.

Joe Rogan 14:53 Yeah.

Andre Ward 14:53 I don't know whatever happened to him. You know?

Joe Rogan 14:55 I don't know. Probably not good.

Andre Ward 14:56 I hope, I hope, I hope he got some help. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 15:00 It's... You know, when you think about a, a career as a heavyweight fighter, too, and all the heavy blows that that guy took.

Andre Ward 15:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:07 Whatever mental problems he might have had were certainly compounded by-

Andre Ward 15:10 That didn't help. No.

Joe Rogan 15:11 (laughs) No, no, no, no. You know, you, uh, you had an amazing career, but one of the things that I think maybe people aren't as aware of is what makes your career even more incredible, is that you fought for a long time with a bad shoulder.

Andre Ward 15:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:25 Like, if you go back and watch the Carl Froch fight, I watched that in getting ready for this. I'll watch it again. You box the shit out of him with mostly your left hand.

Andre Ward 15:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:35 It was crazy.

Andre Ward 15:36 Yeah. 12 years old, tore my subscapularis, um, which is 50... Is responsible for 50% of the strength in a rotator. Um, didn't really know it at the time. We were told, "Hey, he's too young. You know, he shouldn't have surgery, just rehab it." Wrong advice. Found that out, you know, 10 years later. But we just rehabbed it with, you know, bands and strengthening exercises, but we never had surgery. So, that was always kind of my Achilles heel, man. Like, I... It, it's been plenty of fights where I just fought one-handed, because it didn't feel strong. It didn't feel, like, safe. I felt like any time I would throw it, it could pop out of the socket. Like, that's how it felt.

Joe Rogan 16:14 So, it had popped out before?

Andre Ward 16:16 It had not.

Joe Rogan 16:17 Oh, but it felt like it could.

Andre Ward 16:19 But it felt like it could. Um, got it fixed right around 2013, and- and it wasn't 100, but it was better. And I was able to finish out the rest of my career. Um, I got-

Joe Rogan 16:28 So, it's still not 100 now?

Andre Ward 16:29 It's not 100, but I'll take it. Yeah, I'll take it, bro. Like, I probably gained about 30-40% with that surgery.

Joe Rogan 16:35 Wow.

Andre Ward 16:35 Like, they, they grabbed it because the subscapularis was loose. It wasn't attached, but it wasn't atrophied. It was still like a fat, thriving muscle. It just wasn't attached. My doctor was like, "Whoa," like, "has, has this ever popped out of the socket before?" Doctor Michael Dillingham in, in San Francisco. I was like, "Nah." He was like, "How? Like, your shoulder capsule is, like, shot. The subscap is hanging." He said, "But the good news is it's still a thriving muscle. Let's get it attached." Boom, he attached it. Like, a four-hour surgery, something like that. One of those surgeries that you're not guaranteed to come out of the same. Um, and you had to wait for a month or so to see if the surgery took, like, if everything would mend and kind of get, you know, kind of get stronger. It took, man, and- and like I said, I finished out the rest of my career strong.

Joe Rogan 17:13 Wow, so how long was the rehab?

Andre Ward 17:15 Probably about eight months.

Joe Rogan 17:17 So, you went from... It was about 2012 to 2015 where you didn't fight very often. Is that... Was that because-

Andre Ward 17:24 Very infrequently, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:25 Was that because of the shoulder?

Andre Ward 17:26 Combination of a lawsuit, uh, and the injury.

Joe Rogan 17:29 Hm.

Andre Ward 17:29 Yeah. It was kind of like back-to-back blows.

Joe Rogan 17:31 So, for eight months, you're rehabing it, and just still... Like, when did you know that for sure you were gonna be able to come back?

Andre Ward 17:39 You kind of turn a corner in rehab. You know, three, three-month mark, you know, four-month mark, you kind of realize that, dude, like, I'm, I'm, I'm good. Like, I'm not where I need to be, but, like, I'm, I'm headed there.

Joe Rogan 17:48 Right.

Andre Ward 17:48 So, probably about that time, about halfway through, you realize that you're gonna be okay. It's just gonna take some time to fully get the strength back. But even my next fight against Edwin Rodriguez, like, I still didn't throw it.And I didn't realize I didn't throw it until I watched the tape. I watched the tape, I was like, "Dang, he was still..." It was just like a one-handed affair. And then after that... The thing about injuries, it's weird, like that 12-month period for me has always been, like, just like that sweet spot. So I got to that 12-month period with the shoulder, and all of a sudden my overhand right came back. I hadn't thrown an overhand right in 10 years. You know, my, the power in my right uppercut came back. I'm like, "Dude, this is getting better." So after that, then you started to see that thing flying and started whistling. And, and ironically enough, my last fight, that was the punch that started all the trouble for Sergey Kovalev.

Joe Rogan 18:27 Well, it's interesting because you were so successful with one hand, you know, it makes you wonder, like, wha- how goddamn good would you have been-

Andre Ward 18:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:36 ... if you had two hands?

Andre Ward 18:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:37 Or was it, your left hand was so educated.

Andre Ward 18:40 Yeah. Had to be.

Joe Rogan 18:41 One of the... It had to be. But one of the things you were so good at, man, was, uh... I don't have to tell you, you know this, was, uh, using your jab to shut down southpaw fighters.

Andre Ward 18:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:51 Shut down-

Andre Ward 18:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:52 ... their jab and counter.

Andre Ward 18:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:53 You know, and you just had that... You had, like, extra juice with your left hand because you used it so much.

Andre Ward 18:59 I had to. Like, when you have one hand or one arm that, that functions really well, like, you learn to make that thing great. Like, you know, you overcompensate. And that's what that left hand was, overcompensation because I didn't have the right hand to fall back on, you know. But the whole southpaw thing, shout out to my boy Nick and Nate Diaz, like, and all the work we've done in camp. Like, tho- those guys got me ready for a lot of my southpaw, uh, opponents, like, you know, midway through and toward the end of my career. So a lot of work with those guys, and specifically Nate. At a certain point, I stopped working with, uh, Nick 'cause he was doing other things. But Nate, man, and then the volume and having to, like, deal with the awkwardness and the height and the reach, and like, that got me ready for Chad Dawson.

Joe Rogan 19:37 That's amazing.

Andre Ward 19:38 That was my boy.

Joe Rogan 19:39 Yeah, he's a tough dude, man.

Andre Ward 19:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:41 You know, and watching him come back after three years out of the game-

Andre Ward 19:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:44 ... and beat Pettis like that.

Andre Ward 19:45 I shot him a message. I was like, "Bro, you're a bad man."

Joe Rogan 19:47 (laughs)

Andre Ward 19:47 "You're a bad man. Like three years, really?." Yeah, he's a bad man.

Joe Rogan 19:50 Well, I'm just happy that the UFC is finally recognizing the love and, and support that guy has from the fans too, 'cause for whatever reason, they were so high on Conor McGregor and all these other people, they didn't see-

Andre Ward 20:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:01 ... one of the reasons why the Conor fight was so big was 'cause of Nate Diaz.

Andre Ward 20:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:04 Nate Diaz is a fucking star.

Andre Ward 20:06 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 20:06 When he, when they put his face on the screen-

Andre Ward 20:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:08 ... for the Pettis fight, I mean, the arena erupted. It was chaos.

Andre Ward 20:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:12 They went nuts.

Andre Ward 20:13 Yeah. I mean, he... I don't know why they couldn't see it. (sighs) I mean, Conor obviously was, you know, he was a little bit different and he brought what he brought to the table, but probably would have been a good thing to try to balance them both out, show love to, to Nate. But, you know, he was like the rebel child, you know.

Joe Rogan 20:27 Yeah.

Andre Ward 20:27 He say whatever came to his mind and, you know, the, the powers that be, they don't like that. Um...

Joe Rogan 20:31 I think he was a little overshadowed by his brother too because, you know, when your-

Andre Ward 20:34 For a while.

Joe Rogan 20:34 ... brother's a superstar, there's something about... I mean, and especially, like his brother, when he was fighting in Strikeforce, in particular, was one of the best fighters in the world.

Andre Ward 20:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:42 He was just amazing. And then, you know, like especially, like um, you know, uh, th- during like his title reign, like when he was at a- at, at his peak-

Andre Ward 20:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:50 ... when he was fighting in Strikeforce.

Andre Ward 20:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:52 But for whatever reason, they just, you know... N- Nate just flew under the radar.

Andre Ward 20:56 Mm-hmm. Until that Conor McGregor fight-

Joe Rogan 20:58 Yeah.

Andre Ward 20:58 ... the first one.

Joe Rogan 20:59 Yeah. Yeah.

Andre Ward 21:00 Then they recognized.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Yeah, I hope they capitalize on it now, you know, while he still has a few years left.

Andre Ward 21:05 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's that whole layoff thing and not even trying to stay relevant but just trying to keep your skills from eroding, like that's a whole thing right there. And then, and then trying to go perform after that amount of time, like it- it- it's, it's hard.

Joe Rogan 21:18 Yeah.

Andre Ward 21:18 Many men have fallen from that-

Joe Rogan 21:20 Yes.

Andre Ward 21:20 ... and not come back the same.

Joe Rogan 21:21 Yeah, he didn't lose a beat. It was crazy. He looked as good as ever. It was amazing.

Andre Ward 21:24 The good thing is though, he seems to always be working and-

Joe Rogan 21:26 Yes.

Andre Ward 21:27 ... that's what saved me when I was off, like just always like chipping away in the gym, you know. He's got, you know, him and his brother got, they got their own schools and they're always in there grappling, working out. So that's what saved him. If you take off three years of nothing, two years of nothing, a year of nothing, that's when you come back and you look like a totally different person.

Joe Rogan 21:43 I always point to Muhammad Ali, when Muhammad Ali was forced to retire. When he took three years off and then he came back, he did not look physically-

Andre Ward 21:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:52 ... like the same guy.

Andre Ward 21:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:53 You know, he... W- who did he come back and fight? It wasn't Chuck Wepner, it was, uh... What the fuck's his name?

Andre Ward 21:58 Was it Zero Foley?

Joe Rogan 21:59 No, no, no, no, no. It was, um... (clicks tongue) Fuck. (sniffs) The... it's, it's a tragic guy, a white dude, and then his brother was also like, uh... Fuck, I'm not remembering this fucking name.

Andre Ward 22:12 I don't think I know who you're talking about, man. Um, um, um, um, um, um, um...

Joe Rogan 22:15 Jamie'll pull it up.

Andre Ward 22:16 I know who you're talking about too. Uh, Quarry.

Joe Rogan 22:18 Yes.

Andre Ward 22:19 Jerry Quarry.

Joe Rogan 22:20 Jerry Quarry. Yeah, Jerry Quarry, and his brother apparently, who only had like one or two pro fights-

Andre Ward 22:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:25 ... at all, also had severe dementia by the time he died.

Andre Ward 22:28 He, he had how many fights, his brother?

Joe Rogan 22:29 His brother only had a couple.

Andre Ward 22:30 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 22:30 I think he only had a couple pro fights.

Andre Ward 22:32 I didn't know that about him.

Joe Rogan 22:33 It was mostly just gym wars. If I rem-

Andre Ward 22:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:34 ... I think I remember correctly.

Andre Ward 22:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:36 But Quarry and his, his dad apparently forced them to have that kind of fight style.

Andre Ward 22:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:41 They, they just went to war all the time.

Andre Ward 22:43 Not good, bro.

Joe Rogan 22:43 And... Yes, and during the end of his career, uh, th- the end of his life, I should say.

Andre Ward 22:47 That's why I don't, that's why I don't, I don't subscribe... Like here's the thing. Like, for me, this is my view on it. If you love combat sports, if you love fighting, if you love boxing, like you, you enjoy it all. Like I love the guy that has to take two to give one, but then I also love the master. And I'll just speak for boxing, the, the problem that we have is like, we've ostracized the, the master of the game. Instead of articulating what we're seeing or trying to articulate what we're seeing and leaving that, you know, leaving it right there, let it be what it is and let the fans decide what they like and don't like, we try to tell the fans what they should like, "Oh, you know, this is boring." Now hold on, that's the guy that's gonna be speaking properly when all is said and done. This guy, hopefully he is too, but the likelihood is a lot less because you take giving two to get one, but as soon as that guy gets knocked out, then all of a sudden everybody turns on him.

Joe Rogan 23:32 Yeah.

Andre Ward 23:33 So I'm thankful that when I walked into the gym for the first time, my dad was scouring for a trainer who could teach his son how to hit and not get hit. He saw Virg, who became my godfather and has been my trainer, you know, for my whole career. He said, he said, "Man, I was a, you know, I'm a fan of Muhammad Ali." He said, "I've had 15, you know, amateur fights as a heavyweight. Can you teach my son how to hit and not get hit?"And Virg said, "That's my specialty." But just think if my dad was on something else.

Joe Rogan 24:00 Mm-hmm.

Andre Ward 24:01 What if my dad was like, (panting) "I just can't... Make my son tough."

Joe Rogan 24:03 Right.

Andre Ward 24:03 You know? "I want him to take it and dish it out."

Joe Rogan 24:06 Right.

Andre Ward 24:06 I may not be sitting before you right now.

Joe Rogan 24:08 And if he did, it would probably be a different kind of conversation. Yeah, Virgil Hunter is a special guy. He really is. You could tell when you hear him talking. You know, when you, you hear him talk about the game and the way he would formulate game plans and strategies. You know?

Andre Ward 24:20 Sure.

Joe Rogan 24:20 It's like, you know, I remember... I think it was the Chad Dawson fight. I think it was that, when he knocked out Chad Dawson, when, you know, you could see the look in his face-

Andre Ward 24:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:30 ... of, of happiness and accomplishment.

Andre Ward 24:33 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:33 But also, we got through the danger.

Andre Ward 24:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:35 (exhales) We did it, it's over.

Andre Ward 24:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:38 And, but game accomplished.

Andre Ward 24:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:39 You know, when... Yeah, when you have a special relationship, whether it's in MMA or whether it's in boxing, those special relationships between a trainer and a fighter, they're so valuable.

Andre Ward 24:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:49 So, it's... And to me, as a person who loves to watch the sport, I appreciate them so much because I know that, like, you could get there on your own.

Andre Ward 24:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:57 You know, you can get there and have, like, feuds with your trainer-

Andre Ward 25:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:00 ... and break up. You can get... Like Kovalev does.

Andre Ward 25:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:02 You know, like, Kovalev's John David Jackson-

Andre Ward 25:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:04 ... for a while. And, you know, now I like that he's with Buddy McGuirk.

Andre Ward 25:07 Buddy, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:08 But it's better-

Andre Ward 25:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:09 ... if you have a real harmonious relationship-

Andre Ward 25:12 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:12 ... with a master 'cause that's what Virgil Hunter is. He's a master.

Andre Ward 25:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:15 He understands the game.

Andre Ward 25:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:17 He understands it inside and out.

Andre Ward 25:18 Yeah. One thing he used to always tell me, and I never looked at it like that, he was like, "Son, my, my, my sole purpose, my main focus is to get you home safe to your family." He said, "It's not for us to win championships. It's not for you to be all everything. It's to get you home to Tiffany and those kids safely." And when he said that, it just put it all in perspective for me. He's a competitor. He wants to win, but not at the expense of my health. And because he taught me the right way, we got the wins and the belts and everything anyway, and then I was also able to go home-

Joe Rogan 25:47 Yeah.

Andre Ward 25:47 ... to my family, so...

Joe Rogan 25:48 That's amazing relationship. You know, one of the things that always stood out to me about you was how composed you are, and you rarely get emotional.

Andre Ward 25:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:58 You know, even, like, I remember when you fought Carl Froch. Carl Froch hit you clearly after the bell.

Andre Ward 26:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:03 Clearly, in a fight you were dominating, and you just went like this.

Andre Ward 26:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:06 You just said... You didn't even get mad.

Andre Ward 26:07 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 26:08 You didn't go, "Fuck you."

Andre Ward 26:09 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 26:09 You did nothing. You took that punch, and you just went, (clicks tongue) turned-

Andre Ward 26:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:12 ... and just went back to your corner like it never happened.

Andre Ward 26:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Like, you just, (snaps fingers) just wiped it clean.

Andre Ward 26:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:17 Like, "That's not gonna benefit me to get upset here."

Andre Ward 26:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:19 How did you develop that kind of composure?

Andre Ward 26:23 (inhales) I think one thing that my dad and Virg did really well for me and my brother, Jonathan, who boxed with me for many years, uh, they gave us mental reps. Like, like, I'd be driving in the car or riding in the car with Virg or my dad, and they'd be telling me, "Listen, man, when you get in that ring, when you spar today, man, listen, that dude try to hit you low, you make sure you get your respect. You don't accept this in the ring." Like, this is, these are things that I was taught. I was like... I was taught to be a warrior at a young age. And oftentimes, trainers will train the body, but they don't train the mind. So, plus j- and also life experiences, things that I've been through with my mom, my dad, and just, just all that kind of stuff, plus my internal makeup, the way, you know, God made me, all of that combined, I never had to be the loudest talker in the room because I knew that all the, all the stuff, the real stuff, it's in me. It's not on me. So, I'm the type that you hit me like that, I'm gonna smile at you. "I got you. We got another round to fight, sir."

Joe Rogan 27:23 (laughs)

Andre Ward 27:23 So, my f- my, my anger, my, my get-back, I'm gonna get it within the confines of these rules, but you gonna feel me. Kovalev knocked me down. "All right, bro, I got you." I smile. You're embarrassed, you're mad, you're frustrated, you're everything. And in that eight-second, that eight count you're getting, you feel all, every emotion you could possibly feel. But inside, I knew, like, "Now you gonna have to knock me out because I'm coming to get it." So, some of it is innate. Some of it was taught, and then throughout the course of my life and career, I was, I, I was given the mental reps. "Hey, son, watch him right here. Watch how so-and-so pushed his hand down, and he got right back in his face." Not out of the ring, but in the ring, teaching me and showing me and highlighting what a strong mind was and what a weak mind was. And typically, the weak mind was the loudest talker. Now, don't get me wrong. I love a guy that can talk the talk and back it up. There's not a lot of those in the game though, MMA or boxing. So, I'm afraid of the guy who's not saying very much, the guy that's hard to read, the guy where you're trying to figure out, "Man, is he... What's up with him?" That's the guy I'm concerned about. The loudest talker, I used to get excited when guys used to just go over the top. (babbles) I'd be like, "Man, this dude, I got him."

Joe Rogan 28:34 (laughs)

Andre Ward 28:34 "I got him. Keep talking. I got him." Same thing with Kovalev. Fought the first fight. Close, could have went either way. Uh, but from the time the first fight ended until the time the second f- second fight started, I learned more about that guy in that period of time than I did in any round that I fought him in. He said so much, and I was poking holes in it. I was quiet, and I was just sitting back. And everybody was misreading the silence. Like, "Oh, Ward scared. He, he's not gonna take the rematch." I'm just sitting here like, "Oh, man, I'm taking notes, man. This guy... Keep talking, keep talking." And he was just saying things where I was like, "This is a weakness." Now, if he would have said, "Look, I felt like I won that fight. I felt like they robbed me. I'm coming back to get it," and then went silent and went dark, now I'm like, "Man, this dude is getting ready. We gotta, we gotta tighten up." He kept talking, man. Sometimes that talking will reveal a little bit too much about yourself.

Joe Rogan 29:23 What did you see from the talking?

Andre Ward 29:25 Just excuse-making. He didn't give me any credit.

Joe Rogan 29:29 Hmm.

Andre Ward 29:29 He, he started... I mean, if it wasn't the re- And I'm exaggerating, but just for the, for the case of emphasis, you know, the, if the ring lights weren't too bright, the referee was against him. If it wasn't the referee, it was the judges. Like, he never owned up to anything that he did wrong. But if I go back to the research that we did about him before we even fought him the first time, that lined up with what we heard. "The guy, he doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't take ownership of anything. He blames everybody. Anytime anything goes wrong, he's a front-runner. He's a bully. He's this, he's that."That confirmed everything we had heard. So, you're the Crusher, you're Sergey Kovalev, you knock me down in the second round, not the eleventh, the second round. You were supposed to finish me, sir. The fact that we're even talking about a fight being close, and the fact that I finished the fight, that's bothering you. That, that, that, that's a chi- that, that's, that's chipping away at this whole Crusher thing that you been, that you've been living on. And he couldn't handle it, and instead of owning it, he blamed John David Jackson, he blamed this guy, he blamed that guy. That's a sign of weakness, man, not strength.

Joe Rogan 30:32 Mm. Were you impressed with him getting through the eighth round against Yarde in his last fight?

Andre Ward 30:38 I wouldn't say impressed. I mean, listen, he, he hasn't gotten where he's gotten by not being tough. So, generally speaking, he's tough. He's a tough individual, to a point. I wasn't surprised, I, I was just... I was like, "Dude, if you ever... If a fighter has ever been saved by the bell, you were just saved by the bell." Like, you were a punch or, a punch or two away from getting, you know, getting stopped in your home country and in your home, your home city, hometown. That was the only kinda, like, jarring part of it. Um, and then my next thought was, "Can he recover? Is he gonna be able to physically recover, but then psychologically come back and try to get back what Yarde took from him in that round?" And he did that. So, he showed me that he's still got something in the tank, but he, he, he's, um, he... What's the right way to say it? He's fading fast. Like, he's fading right before our eyes.

Joe Rogan 31:29 Mm.

Andre Ward 31:29 He doesn't have the reaction, he doesn't have... He's still very good, he still, he still can beat a lot of guys, but he's fading fast. If there's a Canelo fight on the table, I think he should take it and ride off into the sunset, man. Go enjoy your life.

Joe Rogan 31:41 Well, it was interesting how you exposed him in the second fight, because of the body shots. The body shots have been a weakness, like, since then. Everybody has kind of compromised his body. They've, they've found what you found out. Was that something you knew going into the second fight, or did you know it in the first fight? Like, when, when-

Andre Ward 31:59 We knew that in the first fight.

Joe Rogan 32:00 Did you?

Andre Ward 32:01 Problem with me in the, in the first fight, um, first couple rounds I was thinking too much and this dude came out fast. So I'm thinking, like, I'm trying to get my range and he's like, boom, boom, boom. And he's... It's not that he's, like, this crazy power puncher, it's just that he's sharp and he's accurate. So I'm, like, catching shots, I'm getting hit with jabs. I'm trying to figure... He didn't give me a chance to think. And then, boom, I got hit with the right hand and I'm like, "That's it, bro." So that was the best thing that could've happened to me, like I said earlier. And then you saw the body attack get implemented. So that was always the game plan. I won the second fight with everything that I did in the first fight. Like, we unlocked the code in the first fight.

Joe Rogan 32:38 Mm.

Andre Ward 32:38 But people couldn't get past the knockdown-

Joe Rogan 32:39 Right.

Andre Ward 32:40 ... they failed to, to look at the, the, you know, the next 10 rounds.

Joe Rogan 32:42 But, yeah, the next 10 rounds, you started to take over and you were solving this-

Andre Ward 32:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:46 ... the riddle. It's interesting, the, the, the difference in power punchers. Like, there's levels of power punchers.

Andre Ward 32:51 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:52 We always thought of him as this power puncher.

Andre Ward 32:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:54 Like, 'cause he's the Crusher, he knocked-

Andre Ward 32:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:55 ... a lot of people out. But then there's, like, a Julian Jackson-

Andre Ward 32:58 Different.

Joe Rogan 32:58 ... level. There's a snap-

Andre Ward 33:00 Different.

Joe Rogan 33:00 ... and then some people just go stiff and-

Andre Ward 33:02 George Foreman.

Joe Rogan 33:03 ... follow up. Yes.

Andre Ward 33:03 He, like, like, George could kill you.

Joe Rogan 33:05 Yes.

Andre Ward 33:05 He hit you right-

Joe Rogan 33:06 The Joe Frazier fight.

Andre Ward 33:07 Yes.

Joe Rogan 33:07 Like, Jesus Christ.

Andre Ward 33:08 Yes.

Joe Rogan 33:08 Terrifying.

Andre Ward 33:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:09 Yeah, George, uh, was one of them. I mean, there was, there's been a bunch of guys like that, but that's that, that different level-

Andre Ward 33:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:16 ... of power punching. I mean, Earnie Shavers-

Andre Ward 33:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:18 ... was another one. There was, there's-

Andre Ward 33:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:20 ... certain guys.

Andre Ward 33:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:21 You know, I mean, fuck, man. Thomas Hearns in his prime. The way-

Andre Ward 33:24 Tommy Hearns.

Joe Rogan 33:24 ... the way he put away Roberto Duran, holy shit.

Andre Ward 33:26 He can kill you.

Joe Rogan 33:27 And, and also, the torque. You know, the... Uh, there was so much, uh, the distance between, like, the, the, the length of his arms, the width of his shoulders, and then blap-

Andre Ward 33:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:36 ... when that punch would come in. Jesus.

Andre Ward 33:38 Yeah, if he catch you on the end, you got trouble.

Joe Rogan 33:39 You get caught in that last-

Andre Ward 33:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:41 ... that last power area-

Andre Ward 33:43 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:43 ... whew.

Andre Ward 33:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 33:43 He would just put the lights out. Kir- Kovalev never had, had that kind of power. It was like a snapping power.

Andre Ward 33:50 I mean, listen, he did have power, I don't wanna-

Joe Rogan 33:52 Yes.

Andre Ward 33:52 ... take away from him.

Joe Rogan 33:52 No, yes, definitely.

Andre Ward 33:53 Like, he, he beat a lot of guys in their hometowns, home countries, like, and it's a reason why. Like, at a certain point in the fight, you would see him hit a guy and then all of a sudden their body language was different.

Joe Rogan 34:01 Mm-hmm.

Andre Ward 34:02 And I think one thing that was lost on my whole career that nobody ever talked about, was I probably had one of the best chins in the sport of boxing over the last, you know, at that time, 10 years. Like, I had, I had beaten the best, the, the, the heaviest punchers in, in the game and in my weight class. Like, if you look at Kovalev, outta all the damage that he's done in the light heavyweight division, he had 20 rounds and he had one moment. He didn't have a wobble, he didn't have a sh- he didn't shake me up anywhere, be... One moment, and it was a flash moment. So, just quantify that. Like, a guy who... His name is The Crusher, like, he is who he is, he had one moment in 20 rounds. So a lot of it had to do with my chin, a lot of it had to do with my toughness, um, which is also underrated. And, and I just, like... I know this is gonna sound dramatic. I know it's gonna sound dramatic, but I didn't like to lose, and for me it was kinda like either win or die. Like, that's ef- like, that's how I felt. Like, it wasn't that serious, but that's how it felt. Like, I always thought about Sunday morning. Like, "Dude, if you lose, it's gonna be a crazy ride home on that plane. Family's gonna be looking crazy, feeling bad. Everybody's gonna be looking at you different. Like, and you're gonna feel crazy." Like, I remember being curled up, like, in a ball, on a Southwest flight, coming back from Lenexa, Kansas, uh, losing my... The, the last fight I ever lost, against John Revish, a guy from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 14 years old.

Joe Rogan 35:26 How old were you back then?

Andre Ward 35:26 14.

Joe Rogan 35:26 14. That is hilarious. 14...

Andre Ward 35:29 14 years old.

Joe Rogan 35:30 ... till retired, never lost again.

Andre Ward 35:32 And John was... It was a 14, 15-year-old bracket, so he was a little bit older. And he was kind of a stocky kid, again, country strong. And we were watching each other, we're in separate brackets. So, you know, it's, like, a five-day tournament, you can fight four to five times and get to the finals. And I'm looking at him, and I was a little bit intimidated. He didn't punk me, like, "Oh, I'm scared to death." But I, I was like, "Man, I'm a little leery." And he was knocking guys out, and I was decisioning guys along the way.It could have went either way, I think he won a 3-2 decision. Three judges went his way, two judges went my way. But that w- ev- but if I was honest with myself, like, I got beat before the fight. And at that moment, like, feeling the way I felt coming home, I made up my mind, like, "Dude, if it, i- i- (sighs) as much as that's up to me, like, that's never gonna happen again." Like, I can't control every, every aspect of the fight game, stuff happens, but it's not gonna be because you beat me before the fight. I can't live with this anymore. So, that was my motivation, man, that, just the drive. Like, it was like win or die. And then, and then here's the thing about boxing, the onl- I don't know about MMA, but the only sport that I know of where one loss changes your pay scale. Like, if you have a minimum, like, hey, you win a title, your first defense is this, second defense is that, these are your minimums. We'll negotiate beyond that, you know, whatever, whatever. Go ahead and lose one, that's gonna get cut in half. So, a loss literally takes food off my family's table. I also knew that my critics and my supporters, but namely my critics, they had a front row seat every fight.

Joe Rogan 37:03 Mm, got the type and the writers.

Andre Ward 37:05 Right, they're looking, they're looking down, they're looking up, looking down, looking up.

Joe Rogan 37:07 Oh.

Andre Ward 37:07 So, I'd get in the ring, you know, before the first bell would, would ring, and I'd go around and kinda just feel the ring out and kinda look out, and I'd always see them looking, "Is tonight gonna be the night?" So, I had that weighing on me. I had the, the supporters that believed in me and was riding for me. And I looked, you know, first couple rows, my family's right there, my wife, my kids, I'd always blow our kiss. Like, all of this stuff was, like, tangible and real to me, and that's the stuff that would drive me. And so, when I get knocked down by a Kovalev, like, that's fight or flight time, baby. Like, whatever's in you is gonna come out. If you got some turn in you, that's the time you gonna turn.

Joe Rogan 37:42 Mm.

Andre Ward 37:42 It's gonna be self-preservation mode, and you're gonna be so... You're gonna be more focused on surviving than you are trying to win. And I thank God, man, that, that, that he had his hand on me that night, bro, and that what was in me was real and it was enough to break him, and the rest is history.

Joe Rogan 38:01 The rest is history. It is, uh, it is amazing how much energy people get from haters. I mean, I don't, I don't recommend reading negative comments-

Andre Ward 38:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:11 ... or negative articles.

Andre Ward 38:12 (sniffs)

Joe Rogan 38:12 But it's amazing how people with a certain kind of resolve, a championship resolve, will take that hater shit, and you'll get up 15 minutes earlier than you're supposed to.

Andre Ward 38:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:21 And you'll have more intensity i- in your shadow boxing, and you'll, you'll, you just push harder. You'll feel it.

Andre Ward 38:26 But I don't wanna give the haters too much credit though.

Joe Rogan 38:28 (laughs) Well, it's all you.

Andre Ward 38:29 I don't wanna give the haters too much credit, like-

Joe Rogan 38:31 It's all you. Well, they gave you fuel, though.

Andre Ward 38:32 But it was, it was weird though. And I don't even know how to quantify it. I don't even know how to, like, explain it, but, like, early in my career, uh, they got a lot more credit. And, you know, I got great mentors, man. Um, my pastor, Napoleon Kaufman, former Raider, um, he's a great man of God, just a great, great man. He, I would always call him like, "Man, pastor, man, they're hating on me." And he'd be like, "Listen, son, listen, stop giving these people all this credit, man." He said, "Listen, man, that guy... They can't do anything to you unless God allows it, man. Stay focused on what you gotta do." So, I started to get it as I evolved in my pro career and as I started to mature as a man, so I knew they were there. That element was always gonna be there, but I started letting that element work for me. Like, I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't just, you know, just, just be enamored with it, and I wouldn't just sit there and read comments and stuff. You know, frankly, the last three or four years of my career, I didn't read a mention, not one mention on Twitter. I didn't look at comments on Instagram. Every now and again, something would slip through, but I knew they were there, and I knew generally what was being said. I knew generally what the articles and the headline would read. So, it was there, but the real driving force was the people that were riding for me, fighting for me, supporting me, believing in me. That element was there, and I was gonna address that element through my performance, but they didn't... I, I don't wanna give them too much credit though. They don't deserve that much credit (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 39:56 (laughs) No, they don't deserve that much credit, but-

Andre Ward 39:57 But they're good. They're good to have.

Joe Rogan 39:59 ... there's something there, but it's, you were very wise in the way you managed their influence by not reading those comments.

Andre Ward 40:05 Not all the time, but like, I got the revelation. Like I said, at a certain point, I was like, "Man, I'm done with this, bro."

Joe Rogan 40:09 Yeah.

Andre Ward 40:09 "I'm not doing this."

Joe Rogan 40:10 Yes.

Andre Ward 40:10 I only started to read comments again, um... Frankly, I didn't watch boxing for the past three or four years of my career.

Joe Rogan 40:17 Really?

Andre Ward 40:18 And, and I'm a boxing buff.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Why didn't you watch?

Andre Ward 40:22 I was burnt out. The opinions, the biased-

Joe Rogan 40:26 Mm.

Andre Ward 40:26 ... the, the, the double standards. Good stuff too, but I was just burnt. And it was so weird for me, because I'm the guy that would break his neck to go watch Tuesday night Gillette fights as a kid.

Joe Rogan 40:37 Yeah.

Andre Ward 40:37 Like, "Dude, I gotta get back." "Dude, you don't even know who's fighting." "It doesn't matter, it's two guys in the ring. I'm watching it." Friday night fights for many years. I was over it. Going through what I went through with the lawsuit, going through what I went through with the injuries, the highs and lows and everything in between, I was just burnt out.

Joe Rogan 40:52 What, uh, c- can you refresh my memory? The lawsuit was a promotion lawsuit, is that what it was?

Andre Ward 40:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, it was, uh, you know, I can't get too much into it.

Joe Rogan 40:59 Okay.

Andre Ward 40:59 But it was just something that, man, I, I, I just, I, I fought for myself, and you know, but it was, it was a long two-year journey. Um, on my best day, I'm like, "You're doing the right thing, son. Stay, stay, stay in the race, keep fighting. It may not look, it may not be going your way now, but just stay in... Like, you're not fighting, money's not coming in, but just stay the course. You're doing the right thing." On my worst day, I'm like, "Bro, you're blowing it."

Joe Rogan 41:22 Mm.

Andre Ward 41:23 "You're getting rust on you." You know, people are writing, "Ah, Ward would rather fight in the courtroom than fight in the ring." And I'm like, "Dude, that's not it. I'm just trying to, I'm trying to fight for what I believe is true." So, it, but, but I grew up a lot. But coming out of that, I was like, "Man, I'm done with all that stuff, man. Like, I don't know how many years I got left in this sport, but I'm, I'm not focused on y'all. I gotta focus on me." And it wasn't until I retired and got full time into broadcasting and commentating that I started to watch again, I started to, you know, understand who was out there on the, you know, in the landscape and researching it, but I, I didn't watch it for many years.

Joe Rogan 41:55 That's crazy.

Andre Ward 41:56 Yeah, I was done with it, man.

Joe Rogan 41:56 But it makes sense. I mean, you probably in your early days were so hungry for boxing 'cause you had so much desire that you wanted to watch it all the time.

Andre Ward 42:04 (coughs) Excuse me, excuse me.

Joe Rogan 42:05 But the amount of effort required to become a champion-

Andre Ward 42:07 Yeah.But you don't see the behind the scenes, though.

Joe Rogan 42:10 Hmm.

Andre Ward 42:10 Then you grow up and you see the business side and you see the dark side, and it's like-

Joe Rogan 42:14 Hmm.

Andre Ward 42:15 ... "Ah, man. It's different."

Joe Rogan 42:17 The darkness.

Andre Ward 42:17 The dark side.

Joe Rogan 42:18 Ooh. Yeah, there's a lot of that, man, in boxing. I mean, it's historical.

Andre Ward 42:22 (inhales deeply)

Joe Rogan 42:22 The Don King, Mike Tyson stories. The, I mean, there's so many stories like th- And Don King, Muhammad Ali. There's so many stories like that. It's, it's so sad. It's a, awful side of the business.

Andre Ward 42:35 It is.

Joe Rogan 42:36 Now, when, wha- does i-

Andre Ward 42:38 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 42:38 Was this before or after the Super Six tournament?

Andre Ward 42:41 Which one?

Joe Rogan 42:41 That all this was going on with the lawsuits?

Andre Ward 42:43 After.

Joe Rogan 42:43 It was after?

Andre Ward 42:44 After, shortly after.

Joe Rogan 42:44 So the Super Six tournament, though, was where people knew you were an Olympic gold medalist, but that was where... Like, coming into that, who was the favorite?

Andre Ward 42:53 (inhales deeply) Uh, the favorite was, it was kind of like threefold, but it was Kessler. Um, Arthur Abraham was dominant at 160. He had just moved up to 68, so everybody felt like it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna dominate at the heavier weight class. Carl Froch was the WBC champion, but he was still kind of, like, relatively unknown. Like, you know, he had potential, had a belt, but w- you know, he was probably, you know... I don't know, the, the third favorite. And then you had (clicks tongue) , uh, Andre Dirrell. Obviously, you had myself and you had Jermaine Taylor. And the Americans, or at least this is how I viewed it, we were just, like, we were just there to make it interesting. It wasn't about us. It was th- it was the Europeans' party.

Joe Rogan 43:34 Hmm.

Andre Ward 43:35 Um, and it's funny, because I almost didn't fight in the tournament. I was in Mexico on vacation, and I'd been hearing about the Super Six. But internally, me and my manager, he was like, "Dre, I don't, I don't think this thing's gonna come together. These guys are fighting, it, uh, uh... Hey, man, go enjoy your vacation." So I did that, right? I flew into San Diego, we drove to Mexico, and I ended up getting, like, a double ear infection. Uh, I was messed up.

Joe Rogan 44:01 From the ocean?

Andre Ward 44:03 J- uh, probably, just something like that. Yeah, it just kind of came upon me. I don't know, I don't exactly know the origin of it. So I'm like r- I had a little bit of internet access, so I'm looking at stuff. I'm like, "Eh, these guys are... Wait, they're doing a kickoff pre- press conference in New York?" So I called James, I'm like, you know, "J, what's up?" He was like, "Hey, man, you need to get there, like, ASAP, bro. This thing's going down." I'm like, "Whoa." I'm like, "You told me it wasn't gonna happen."

Joe Rogan 44:23 (laughs)

Andre Ward 44:23 He's like, "I didn't think it was." (laughs) So, but he was also like, "You know what, though? If you don't wanna go, it's all good. We'll figure it out." So I'm like, "Man, I don't wanna go. I'm s- I'm with my family." I call Verge. I give him the whole spiel. And it's probably, like, two, three times in my life he's had this kind of tone. He was like, "Listen, son, you need to get on a plane. You're not gonna make the New York press conference. The next stop is Germany, Arthur Abraham's home country. Get there." I'm like, "Man, I'm in... You know, I'm with my family." Give him the whole spiel. He said, "Get there." So we pack up, we drive two or three hours to San Diego, get on a flight, drive my family back to the Bay Area. Boom, drop them off, get on a flight, a red-eye, that night, double ear infection, wake up in Germany. And that was my, that was their second stop, but that was my first stop. And that's when I really got the revelation that, "Man, they, this is a joke." Like, like, this, they think that me, Dirrell and, and, and Taylor, like, we're just going... Like, that's when I took exception, and that was when I really kind of, like, realized that, dude, like, th- this is either... This is gonna be a sink or swim moment for you. Either you gonna get... Like, I could've got ruined in the Super Six. Like, it could've went a whole nother way. Or what I knew was in me was gonna be, you know, displayed an- and- and shown to the world.

Joe Rogan 45:35 And so when you beat Kessler and you won your first title, that had to be a beautiful moment. I mean-

Andre Ward 45:42 Unreal. (blows air) Unreal. Unreal. And it was in my hometown. Like, the same arena, Oracle Arena, where the Warriors had played for many, many years. And I'm kind of salty they're leaving, man. They- they're going-

Joe Rogan 45:52 (laughs)

Andre Ward 45:52 ... to Chase Arena. I'm not happy, man. I'm, I'm not happy. Um, I used to pass by that arena on, uh, Highway 880 going to King's Gym. And I used to look and it'd be, it'd be on the right side, and I'd be like, "Man, Virg, I wonder if I'm gonna fight there one day." He said, "Babe, you fight there, you're gonna headline." I was like, "Really?" I'm talking 12, 13 years old. Wow. Like, "Man, I'm, I'm a headline?" And Kessler's arrogance allowed that fight to take place in my hometown. He had more knockouts than I had victories. Like, "Man, this dude. Like, I'm, I'm not only gonna beat him, I'm gonna beat him in his hometown." Uh, so we fought there, uh, I think it was November 19th. And, uh, just unreal, man. And, like, for a gold medalist, like, like, people don't understand the pressure you have coming into the game. Like, like, everything you do well, you're expected to do well, but if there's one slip-up, now it's like, you know, everybody comes out the woodworks, "Oh, I told you-

Joe Rogan 46:43 Yeah.

Andre Ward 46:43 ... he wasn't gonna be there." So to get the monkey off my back to win my first title was just... That pressure, like, re- that release of pressure was just immense.

Joe Rogan 46:52 I remember when I was a kid when the Olympic team had so many guys that went on to win world champions, like Pernell Whitaker. Was it the '76 Olympic team?

Andre Ward 47:01 '84.

Joe Rogan 47:01 '84.

Andre Ward 47:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:02 Uh, Pernell Whitaker, Mark Breland. You know, there was, uh, there was so many guys from that era.

Andre Ward 47:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:09 That was, uh, Meldrik Taylor.

Andre Ward 47:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:11 You know, uh, who else? Who else?

Andre Ward 47:14 Uh, Holyfield, Holyfield was there.

Joe Rogan 47:15 I think-

Andre Ward 47:15 But I think Holyfield got disqualified. He got a silver, I think.

Joe Rogan 47:17 Right, something happened.

Andre Ward 47:20 Um...

Joe Rogan 47:20 When you, you think about the amount of pressure that... I mean, so many people were looking at those guys. And I remember when Breland lost to Marlon Starling.

Andre Ward 47:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:29 He got knocked out by Marlon Starling.

Andre Ward 47:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:31 I remember so many people were happy.

Andre Ward 47:32 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:32 They were happy that he lost. Like, "Oh, another Olympic gold medalist is, you know, we couldn't take." And like, God, first of all, goddamn Marlon Starling was a fucking killer.

Andre Ward 47:40 Yeah, beast.

Joe Rogan 47:41 He was a killer, and just super slick.

Andre Ward 47:43 Yep.

Joe Rogan 47:43 You know, just a real seasoned knockout artist and an excellent boxer. You know, I mean, it wasn't... Uh, it's, that's just, a great boxer-

Andre Ward 47:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:52 ... beat another great boxer.

Andre Ward 47:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:54 But there was a weird feeling to it.

Andre Ward 47:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:56 Like, people were happy-

Andre Ward 47:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:58 ... that Breland lost.

Andre Ward 47:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:59 I was like, "Wow, this is..."

Andre Ward 48:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:01 "That's crazy pressure."

Andre Ward 48:02 It's different.

Joe Rogan 48:03 Yeah.

Andre Ward 48:03 It's different. Um, and people talk about pressure all the time. Like, "How'd you deal with this? How'd you deal with that?" Well, I credit my faith in God and just, you know, feeling like there was a purpose for me to be in the game as the foundational reason. But the, the practical reason was I've been dealing with pressure since I've been in my, you know, since I've been a baby. Like-... having two parents who were drug addicted, uh, at a young age. And, and one is a functional addict. Um, and my dad, who raised me as a single parent, and then my mother was a full-blown addict for many, many years. She's clean now, she's doing good. Like, that's pressure. Started there. Then, like, coming up throughout the ranks and, like, dealing with haters and all this stuff in the gym, in your private gym. Or not private gym, but the gym that you train at.

Joe Rogan 48:46 Yeah.

Andre Ward 48:46 And you got some people that are with you, "Man, this kid's gonna be the next..." And you got some people over there in the corner mumbling, "Meh, kid ain't gonna be uh, he ain't gonna be nothing. He's all right." Like, you learn to deal with that stuff then. Then going to the national tournaments. You dealing with people from all over the US. Then you going to the world tournaments. Like, that's pressure. Then you get to a point, so when I fought a guy like Sergey Kovalev, I'd already seen him before. I'd fought Kovalev 15, 20 times in my career already. The big, you know, menacing guy who everybody's afraid of. Like, I've fought him before. I fought him in the Olympics. I fought three Russians in the Olympics. So it wasn't that, "Oh, it's, I'm guaranteed to win." But I had seen that before. Even the critics and all the people. Like, we, I've been dealing with this stuff my whole life. And, and it wasn't anything new. Does, does it feel good? Absolutely not. I mean, you, you, your hope is that everybody supports you. But, you know, as, as successful as this podcast is, you got your boo birds. You have your critics.

Joe Rogan 49:42 (laughs) Boo birds. I never heard them talked like that.

Andre Ward 49:44 Boo birds.

Joe Rogan 49:44 Boo birds.

Andre Ward 49:45 You got people that're, soon as you slip up, "Oh, ah, I knew he was gonna..." That's part of the game, man.

Joe Rogan 49:50 Yeah. That must have enhanced your relationship with Virgil. It must have-

Andre Ward 49:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:55 ... because he believed in you.

Andre Ward 49:56 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 49:56 When you fought-

Andre Ward 49:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:57 ... for the world title in that very arena where he said you were gonna be headlining when you were, like, 12, 13 years old-

Andre Ward 50:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:04 ... what the fuck was that like? That must've been amazing.

Andre Ward 50:06 It's surreal, man. You're just trying to manage your emotions. Like, I remember the night before the fight, uh, I had, I had my guy, Jack, Edward Jackson, man, who's a, a great coach, great assistant, great strength and conditioning coach, boxing coach from Houston, Texas. He'd been with me from day one. Um, I said, "Man, I gotta get out of the room, man." Like, we, we, we, um, drove to Trader Joe's just to get some, some, some Clif bars. I just needed to clear my head. And I remember, like, talking to my uncle, Bob, who, you know, was my dad's best friend, who, you know, he wasn't my blood uncle, but he's basically like an uncle to me. Huge boxing fan. And I remember just, like, talking to him, and him saying, "Baby, tomorrow's your day. I'ma be, I'ma be there front row, baby. You're ... Tomorrow's your day. Your dad, your dad always dreamed about this moment." And, like, just tears running down my eyes because I was just feeling the pressure. I'm like, "Dude, I'm getting ready to fight for a world title at home." Like, the pressure, like, you could cut, you can cut it with a knife. Um, but to be able to bear up under it and, and, and to go get it done, bro, tsh, unreal. Unreal. Could, you couldn't, you couldn't script it any better.

Joe Rogan 51:10 Was the second fight with Kovalev your second most satisfying fight?

Andre Ward 51:16 I liked the first one better.

Joe Rogan 51:18 The first fight better? Really? 'Cause you managed to survive, and come back, and then start out pointing again.

Andre Ward 51:23 I just got it a different way.

Joe Rogan 51:25 Hm.

Andre Ward 51:26 I got it a different way. And like, I-

Joe Rogan 51:29 That's crazy that you liked that fight better.

Andre Ward 51:31 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:31 That's interesting.

Andre Ward 51:32 I lo-

Joe Rogan 51:32 That says a lot about you.

Andre Ward 51:33 Yeah. I loved the moment when, uh, me and Virg in the corner. Um, he showed his worth. I already knew what he had, but he showed his worth. He said, "Baby, listen. Ali been knocked down. Sugar Ray's been knocked down. They got up. Now you get up." Like, tha- that's wh- those are moments you live for. Like, you don't wanna be on the canvas-

Joe Rogan 51:50 Yeah.

Andre Ward 51:50 ... but if you happen to find yourself there, you wanna know that your team has what it take, and you wanna know that you have what it take. That was the second round, bro. I clawed back 10 rounds against that guy.

Joe Rogan 52:01 Mm-hmm.

Andre Ward 52:01 The biggest night of my life. And then having to deal with everything afterward. It built me, man. It made me strong, like stronger. And that was just, tha- tha- that, that ... I won the second fight again with the first fight. Like, I, I already broke him in the first fight. Something happened to him. Like, right around the sixth round, he was still trying to win to a degree, but I knew physically, I was like, "Man, I got him. He's not the same." So, of course he's gonna whine about the decision because it didn't go his way. Um, but I beat him in the first fight. We only saw what the ... The, the second fight was the window dressing. We just picked up where we left off. But everything that, that transpired in the second fight really started in the first fight.

Joe Rogan 52:42 The second fight, it's, it was stunning to me when it seemed like he just quit. Because it didn't seem like, it d- uh, I mean, it almost seemed like a premature stoppage, but then you realize that he didn't want to fight any longer.

Andre Ward 52:55 Yeah. Tony Weeks did a great job. He saved Kovalev.

Joe Rogan 52:57 He did.

Andre Ward 52:58 I mean, you know, in, in hindsight, you know, you wish he would've landed the one shot and he went, you know, he got-

Joe Rogan 53:03 Right.

Andre Ward 53:03 ... knocked out and it was clear. But listen, man, um, all, all the excuses and stuff, like ... I was thinking about this the other day. Every big win that I've had, there was an excuse attached to it. So you go back to Kessler, "Oh, he headbutted me. He was fighting dirty." No, I'm fighting in a style that you don't know how to deal with. If you look at Carl Froch, "Oh, it wa- it was boring. It was..." Why didn't you make it more interesting?

Joe Rogan 53:28 (laughs)

Andre Ward 53:29 You look at Chad Dawson, "Oh, he was weight training, he ..." Chad Dawson called me out. I was at home minding my own business and he said, "I wanna fight Andre Ward. I'll come down to his weight and I'll fight him in Oakland." If you look at Kessler, I mean, you look at Kovalev. First fight, "I got robbed." Second fight, "They cheated me." Come on, y'all. Every big win that Andre Ward has cannot have an asterisk next to it. Like some ... Either, either I'm not the guy that my record says that I am, or somebody's not being honest over here. You see what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 54:01 But don't you think that's inherent with boxing? When, uh, th- there's certain people that don't ever wanna accept defeat no matter what. And when there's a situation where there's a possible reason why they lost that didn't sort of fit into the rule books-

Andre Ward 54:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:15 ... like, "He hit me low."

Andre Ward 54:16 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Or, "They stopped it too soon."

Andre Ward 54:18 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:18 Or the Kovalev fight, you know, like the second fight in particular. Like, the first fight maybe he could h- make an argument that he thinks he should've won a decision. But the second fight-I mean, he wasn't, he wasn't jumping up looking to beat that eight count, dust his gloves off and get back at it. He was basically-

Andre Ward 54:36 He was done.

Joe Rogan 54:36 ... s- surrendering.

Andre Ward 54:37 He was done, man.

Joe Rogan 54:37 Those body shots were for-

Andre Ward 54:39 Just, just everything. People forget about the right hand that started all the trouble-

Joe Rogan 54:42 Yes.

Andre Ward 54:42 ... where he did the funny dance-

Joe Rogan 54:43 Mm-hmm.

Andre Ward 54:43 ... and then, like, the, the, the 15 unanswered shots after that.

Joe Rogan 54:47 Yeah.

Andre Ward 54:47 Um, and I would probably say out of the body shots that landed, maybe one straight a little low. But, again, bro, your name is The Crusher. Like, like, why... Like, if you hit me low, like, and I try to be as fair as I possibly can, I'm coming to get that back, bro. Like, if it's... If I feel like it's intentional-

Joe Rogan 55:02 Right.

Andre Ward 55:02 If it's a accident, you know, it's all good, you know, it happens. But if you're trying to, like, like, like, dethrone me or beat me from, from a foul, like, I'm coming to get that back. Why all of a sudden... Like, all the people that said that, that, that, you know, "You're not gonna beat Kovalev." You, you know, "Look what he did to this guy, he's gonna do the same thing to you, you're too small." Those are the same people coming to the rescue of a guy whose nickname is The Crusher and who's menacing and all the stuff I've been saying. You know, like, like, he should be able to defend himself. He should be able to get me off of him, a little guy that just moved up from 168. Little old me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:35 What's the thing about Kovalev too, like, he killed a guy early in his career, right?

Andre Ward 55:38 Yeah, yeah. Right.

Joe Rogan 55:38 And that was something that, you know... Th- there's, uh, a feeling when a guy's done that. There's a, there's a, a fear to facing that guy.

Andre Ward 55:48 And I had to face that fear. I had to face that fear, I'm human. Um-

Joe Rogan 55:52 Yeah.

Andre Ward 55:52 ... so that was presented to me.

Joe Rogan 55:53 Mm-hmm.

Andre Ward 55:54 But that's where the mindset comes into play. That's where my faith comes into play where it's like, "Listen, man, unfortunately that happened to that guy, but you ain't doing that to me." Like, that's the mindset part.

Joe Rogan 56:04 Yeah.

Andre Ward 56:04 Like, if you allow that stuff to seep in, take root a- a- and start to fester in your heart and your mind, you'll ne- you'll never get it... get, get past the fin- uh, the, the starting line. You, you'll go out there and be like, "Man, who was that dude that was performing that night that wasn't me?" Um, he was gonna have to do something to me 'cause, 'cause I was coming to win, man. And it... And again, it's not that I'm just... I'm not the toughest guy in the world, but, like, I just believed what I believed, I felt like I was there for a reason and unfortunately that happened to that, that young man, but I just didn't believe that was gonna happen to me. And that's what I had to keep feeding myself in order to get past that and then go perform.

Joe Rogan 56:37 Now, how did you make the decision? You stop him in the second fight, how did you make the decision that that's it?

Andre Ward 56:42 (inhales deeply) It was almost it for me after the first fight.

Joe Rogan 56:45 Really?

Andre Ward 56:46 Yeah. That's the closest I've ever... I've talked retirement in the past, uh, like internally with my wife and stuff. Um, but after the first fight, I don't know if it was... Uh, I think it was physical, like all the surgeries and rehab and just the years of fighting-

Joe Rogan 57:02 How many different surgeries did you have?

Andre Ward 57:03 About three.

Joe Rogan 57:04 All in the shoulder or-

Andre Ward 57:05 No. Shoulder, knee... Yeah, yeah. One ACL, one meniscus. Yeah. Um, I think it was the physical part, I think it was just the, the, the toll of the sport and then may- may- maybe some of the reaction. Like, like, you know, for a split second I'm like, "Here we go again." Like, like, it's always something, you know. I beat the guy that you guys say I couldn't beat and that now, now, you know, people feel like I got robbed. Like, that's a fight that could have went either way, you know, by a point or two. You can't... You can't have a polarizing opinion about it. You may say, "Man, I thought Ward lost." I can live with that. But all the Rob stuff, like-

Joe Rogan 57:41 Yeah.

Andre Ward 57:41 So I think it was a combination of just everything wh-... I was like, "Man, I'm done, man." Like, "I'm not doing this no more." I didn't do anything for three months after that fight. And I remember going to speak to my pastor about it because he did the same thing. Like, he... You know, he was all everything at, at UDub, played six years in the league and all of a sudden, boom, one day he was like, "I'm done." And never looked back. So I went and sat with him and I was like, "Man, pastor, I don't know, man. I think I'm done." He's just listening, very wise man. And, um, so I'm giving him the whole spiel, I'm like, "Man, I haven't done nothing in three months. I've never done that, that's gotta be a sign, I'm done." He said, "You know what, son?" He said, "I think, uh..." He said, "I think you'll be fine if you, if you retire." He said, "But I think you got one more left in you." I remember just... I thought he was gonna side with me.

Joe Rogan 58:23 (laughs)

Andre Ward 58:24 I thought he was gonna be like, "Yeah, son, that's it." And I was a little disappointed, honestly. I was like, "Really?" I was like, "Yeah, but I told you I hadn't done anything in three months." He was like, "I know, I know, I know." He said, "Once you get going, you know, the fire will be rekindled."

Joe Rogan 58:38 Wow.

Andre Ward 58:38 So I took him at his word and I started to kind of get back going moving my body, and then that happened. I started to get that fire back. And, uh, once we got the money right, I was like, "All right, I'm gonna do it again." Boom, won the fight. And I didn't know for sure, but I was kind of feeling like, "Okay, well, you know, I felt like that after the first one, this may be it after the second one." But then the opportunities started coming. HBO had a three-fight deal on the table. And basically it was gonna be a gimme fight in Oakland at home, kind of a celebration, a move to cruiserweight against Tony Bellew, probably in the UK.

Joe Rogan 59:13 Did you want to move to cruiserweight?

Andre Ward 59:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was nothing else at light heavyweight.

Joe Rogan 59:17 What about a rubber match? That wasn't exciting for you? No?

Andre Ward 59:20 I beat him twice.

Joe Rogan 59:21 Did Kovalev ask for a rubber match?

Andre Ward 59:22 No.

Joe Rogan 59:22 No, really?

Andre Ward 59:24 I mean, he would probably put... If somebody asked him like, "You want a rematch or what?" "Yes, of course." He didn't want it. He didn't really want it. So that was the three-fight exit strategy with HBO. Gimme fight at light heavy. I was probably gonna do a catch weight at home, cruiserweight and then-

Joe Rogan 59:37 What did you walk around at?

Andre Ward 59:39 Back then?

Joe Rogan 59:39 Yeah.

Andre Ward 59:41 About 85.

Joe Rogan 59:42 So you would have had to gain weight.

Andre Ward 59:45 I'd have had to tighten myself up at, at 85, 90. Probably a little weight, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:49 'Cause cruiserweight limit is 90?

Andre Ward 59:50 It's 200.

Joe Rogan 59:51 It's 200?

Andre Ward 59:51 Yeah. So I probably... I probably wouldn't have got to 200 though. Probably would have been about 190, 192, something like that. So that was the three-fight deal and the third fight was gonna be Anthony Joshua.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 Oh.

Andre Ward 1:00:01 Don't know if it would have been made, we hadn't even gotten that far, but that was our plan.

Joe Rogan 1:00:05 Jesus Christ.

Andre Ward 1:00:06 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 How much would you have gained to get up to heavyweight?

Andre Ward 1:00:10 Maybe two.

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 That's it?

Andre Ward 1:00:13 Maybe two. I can't... I'm never gonna be as big as you guys-

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 Right.

Andre Ward 1:00:16 ... so why would I weigh myself down?

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 Right. Yeah.

Andre Ward 1:00:18 Very dangerous situation.

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 Yeah.

Andre Ward 1:00:20 You know. Uh, but that was something we were talking about. And Verge mentioned it in the post-fight press conference with Kovalev.

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 That guy is fucking gigantic.

Andre Ward 1:00:26 But we hadn't... Me and him... Me and Verge hadn't talked about... Like, we talked about it, but we didn't say we were gonna mention anything publicly.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 Oh, and then he came out with it. (laughs)

Andre Ward 1:00:33 And I'm sitting there... You know, I'm chilling, I just won. I'm like... He's like, "Yeah, we want Anthony Joshua." I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 (laughs)

Andre Ward 1:00:37 Why would you say that, man? Chill, bro, like...

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 He's so much bigger than you.

Andre Ward 1:00:42 Yeah, it's all good though.

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 That guy is gigantic.

Andre Ward 1:00:44 I've been fighting big guys my whole life.

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 I'm sure you have.

Andre Ward 1:00:47 So the three-fight deal was on the table. And Roman Gonzalez, Siritsakai or Si- Siritsakoi, Siritsakai, Sor Rungvisai were getting ready to fight their rematch at the Home Depot Center. Uh, I think it was September 9th. September 6th, that was a Wednesday, I was supposed to be in LA to, you know, announce the- the new signing and get ready to call that fight. That Wednesday, I come home and I'm kind of like... I'm- I'm not boohooing, but I'm in tears. And I tell my wife, I was like, "I don't want to do it anymore." And even saying that f- sounded crazy to me. She was like... She was just real quiet and I'm thinking like, "Why is she not saying nothing?" I was like, "I don't think I want to do this anymore." And she said something she had never said previously. Typically, she's like, "Babe, look, it's not time. Come on, you gotta get up. I know you feel this way, I know you're bi- but come on, you... I feel like you still got time in the sport." First time she ever agreed with me. She was like, "I think the decision is already made, Dre." I was like, "What?" She said, "I think the decision is already made." She said, "I've been looking at you throughout this whole day and some of the stuff you've been saying, and I've never really seen you like this." She said, "I think it's already made." I took that out, bro. Started making phone calls.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Wow.

Andre Ward 1:01:58 Called-called my lawyer who's, you know, one of my good friends, Josh Dubin. I said, "Hey, bro, I think this may be it for me." And he had been wanting me to be, you know, done. He was like, "If you feel that way, bro, I'm gonna support you." Called my manager the next morning. And it took us... So I went- I went- I went that weekend and called the fight. We held off on the announcement. And my lawyer just told HBO like, "Look, he's going through some things. We're good. Give us a couple of days." So I got through that weekend, and he said, "Do you still feel like that come Monday morning?" I was like, "Bro, I think I'm done." Long story short, uh, we ended up announcing it September 21st. It was like a two-week period we were trying to keep it under wraps. But I was undoing all the stuff. I was letting the necessary people know, Roc Nation, HBO, everybody know. And, um, the night before I announced it, man, me and my good friend, um, who's a director, uh, he's also directing my doc, uh, Deonтеa Thompson, he, um... We put together this video. It was like a legacy video where I had my young son, my middle son, and my oldest son, and those were like, those were like, you know... That was me at that point in time in my career. And we did this whole video that I was gonna announce my retirement with. And, um, and I actually have the doc that I'm working on right now is about this, like, why did the best fighter at the world, uh, of the world at that time walk away from the sport on top? Shot that video out, man, the day of my retirement, bro, and the response was just overwhelming. You know, it was overwhelming, like I just couldn't believe the amount of people that were reaching out. And- and it was re- it- it was- it was like good and bad. Like, it was good 'cause I was getting support, but it felt like somebody died, like I felt like I died, bro.

Joe Rogan 1:03:26 (laughs)

Andre Ward 1:03:27 I'm looking at all these, "Rest in peace," like not literal rest in peace, but like the comments were like, "Rest in peace," like, "Bro, are you s- I couldn't bel- man, I'm d- what?" Like, "Ward, not you, man. Oh my God, man." And it was just... It was like just this huge reaction. And it was overwhelming, um, and in the two years that followed, like I said it a- at the beginning of this podcast, harder than I thought it was gonna be, one of the hardest if not the hardest thing I've ever tried, had to do, and