JRE MMA Show #78 with Andre Ward

1. 0:00 – 1:47

   Andre Ward’s early retirement philosophy: leaving on top

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (music)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Two, one, boom. (book slams) Andre Ward, ladies and gentlemen. How are you, brother?

   3. AWAndre Ward0:05

      I'm good, man. How you doing?

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Thank you very much for doing this, man. I'm a big fan, so I was very excited to do this.

   5. AWAndre Ward0:09

      Appreciate you having me.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      You did it. In terms of, like, if you're a young fighter and you got aspirations, what do you wanna do? You wanna be an Olympic gold medalist, you wanna win multiple world titles, two division world champion-

   7. AWAndre Ward0:21

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      ... and you retired undefeated. You, you're the w- one, you're like a unicorn, man.

   9. AWAndre Ward0:27

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       You're a rare dude because-

   11. AWAndre Ward0:29

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       ... you retired at 35, right?

   13. AWAndre Ward0:31

       33.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       33.

   15. AWAndre Ward0:32

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       That's crazy. Like, you're in the peak of your athletic abilities and you go, "You know what? (smacks lips) Did enough."

   17. AWAndre Ward0:39

       I'm out.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Yeah.

   19. AWAndre Ward0:42

       I mean, it, it sound, it sounds all neat and buttoned up, uh, but it wasn't, it wasn't that easy. Like, I, I didn't know how things were gonna go throughout the course of my career. Um, but for whatever reason, like, I always, even as a young kid, and I'm talking 10 years old, like, I had this thought, like, you know, "I don't wanna end up like a lot of fighters end up." Like, they seem to go high, really high, and then all of a sudden they come crashing down. Like, they start well, but they don't end well.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       Yeah.

   21. AWAndre Ward1:09

       And that's what, that's what drew me to Roy Jones Jr. Um, country boy, had swag, and he'd always talk about himself in the third person. He'd be like, "Man, you know, Roy Jones, I don't," you know-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       (laughs)

   23. AWAndre Ward1:18

       "... I don't love the sport like that, man. I'ma get in and get out. I'm just special at it and I'ma be fishing on my farm one, you know, one day in Pensacola, Florida." And I was like, "Man, this dude is different. Fighters don't talk like that."

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       Hmm.

   25. AWAndre Ward1:28

       So he was the first one that gave me the thought of getting in and getting out. And then, again, I just, I just studied it throughout the course of my career. Even other athletes and entertainers, like I just, I was enamored by it. So that was always a goal. Just as much as I wanted to win a gold medal, world championship, I wanted to leave on top when people were asking, "Why are you leaving?"

2. 1:47 – 3:31

   Lessons from Roy Jones Jr. and the cost of staying too long

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:47

      Yeah. Well, it's so difficult to make that decision, though. For f- so, I mean, Roy Jones Jr didn't even make that decision.

   2. AWAndre Ward1:53

      He didn't.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:54

      He said he was gonna do it and then, I mean, he had some rough knockouts. It was-

   4. AWAndre Ward1:58

      Late in his career.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:00

      Yeah, hard to watch.

   6. AWAndre Ward2:01

      So-

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:01

      That, uh, uh, some of them that people even, didn't even see.

   8. AWAndre Ward2:03

      Yeah, yeah. Heartbreaking.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:05

      Yes.

   10. AWAndre Ward2:05

       Especially if you've followed him and supported him like I have, um-

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:08

       Especially if you know his decision was based on Gerald McClellan, a lot of it was.

   12. AWAndre Ward2:12

       Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       When Gerald McClellan, uh, for people who don't know, was a murderer, man. I mean, he was a savage light heavyweight. But he caught, he was cutting a lot of weight-

   14. AWAndre Ward2:21

       Yep.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:21

       ... and, um, you know, he wound up having a serious brain injury-

   16. AWAndre Ward2:25

       Yep.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:26

       ... in, in, in that epic fight with Nigel Benn-

   18. AWAndre Ward2:28

       Nigel Benn, yep.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:29

       ... which is an amazing, amazing fight.

   20. AWAndre Ward2:30

       Yep.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:30

       Benn got off the deck, it looked like the fight was over.

   22. AWAndre Ward2:33

       Yep.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       'Cause Gerald McClellan would just murk people, man.

   24. AWAndre Ward2:35

       Absolutely.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:36

       Uh, to, uh, to like a prototypical Kronk destroyer.

   26. AWAndre Ward2:39

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:39

       You know? And-

   28. AWAndre Ward2:40

       Big right hand.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:40

       Woo. Tall, strong as fuck, uh, super aggressive, knockout striker. And for whatever reason, Roy, um, decided, "You know what? Let's just keep doing it."

   30. AWAndre Ward2:52

       Yeah.
3. 3:31 – 7:26

   Bernard Hopkins: discipline, fundamentals, and mental toughness

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:31

      So goddamn, man, you're right there. I mean, you have, like, four more years to be ... unless you're Bernard Hopkins-

   2. AWAndre Ward3:37

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:37

      ... then you have another decade. (laughs)

   4. AWAndre Ward3:38

      But to Bernard's credit, he started late.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:40

      He did.

   6. AWAndre Ward3:40

      Bernard started at 20 some years old in Grady for state prison.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:43

      Yes.

   8. AWAndre Ward3:44

      I started at nine years old.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:45

      Well, also, Bernard developed this insane discipline while he was in prison.

   10. AWAndre Ward3:49

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:49

       The, the hardships of prison were so awful-

   12. AWAndre Ward3:52

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:52

       ... the feeling of being locked up and contained that he fucked up his life, he was so bound and determined to become something special that, I mean, he's so disciplined.

   14. AWAndre Ward4:00

       Yeah. Well, e- e- even beyond that, like, he opened up his eyes and he looked at the landscape and he realized that most fighters are not disciplined. Most fighters, they like the idea of being a champion, they like the idea of winning, you know, championships and what that brings, not just the championships or what the championships and the money brings, the, the ladies, the, you know, the partying, all the stuff. And he said, "I'ma do it a different way. Like, these guys are out gaining weight, 20 pounds in between fights. I'ma live like a Spartan." He under ... he got the revelation and he just stuck to it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:31

       Yeah. He ate clean. He-

   16. AWAndre Ward4:32

       He lived a clean life.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:33

       And he fought so disciplined.

   18. AWAndre Ward4:35

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:35

       He fought so smart. He was one of the best defensive fighters ever, just ... And people didn't like that style, man. He would pop you and grab you, pop you and grab you-

   20. AWAndre Ward4:42

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:43

       ... and people would get frustrated, they would get out of composure and they would start doing the things that maybe they shouldn't have done and then he would capitalize on those things. I remember when he fought Trinidad, man. I mean, that, that was-

   22. AWAndre Ward4:52

       One of my favorite fights.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       ... woo. Trinidad was a killer.

   24. AWAndre Ward4:55

       And I love Tito.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       I do too. I mean, he was a killer. I got a chance to see Tito fight live in Vegas once, it was amazing.

   26. AWAndre Ward5:01

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:02

       But when Bernard started putting it on him, I was like, "Wow, this is, first of all, you, this is a, like, a legitimate middleweight fighting a guy who's really a welterweight. And this is also a really special fighter who just figures people out."

   28. AWAndre Ward5:15

       He fought Tito in New York City in Madison Square Garden, which is-

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       After.

   30. AWAndre Ward5:18

       ... which is little Puerto Rico.
4. 7:26 – 11:04

   Roy Jones vs. Tarver: weight cuts, career turning points, and ‘supplements’ talk

   1. AWAndre Ward7:26

      That was the guy I fell in love with, you know. But he could've ... Roy could've, he could've gone and had a full career and rode off in the sunset and been in Pensacola fishing, hunting, doing whatever he does, and still not really been super fundamentally sound. But, I mean, after he beat John Ruiz for the heavyweight championship of the world, um, and I had been going to multiple Roy fights leading up to that heavyweight fight. Antonio Tarver, who I have a lot of respect for, you know, they were rivals in Florida when they were young, um, Antonio was following Roy around trying to get him to notice him, trying to get him to take a fight. And I remember clear as day in the post-fight press conference after Roy became the heavyweight champion of the world after being the middleweight champion starting at 160, Tar- uh, Antonio Tarver interrupted the press conference. He said, "Roy Jones, you been ducking me. You been running." He's going on and on and on. Roy looks at Tarver and, and gives him the attention that he's been after. And he says, "Ho- ho- ho- ho- ho." He said, "I, I'm gonna whoop you. I'm, I'm gonna whoop you. We gonna make that fight happen." And at that moment, I'm thinking like, "No, Roy, no. Don't do it. You're the heavyweight champion of the world." Tarver was still light heavyweight. And sure enough, Roy went down, stripped off 25 pounds of muscle that he had built up with Macky Shilstone to get ready for the heavyweight fight, went down there, fought a close fight, but he didn't look like himself. Took the rematch. Now, that ... Even after the first fight with Tarver, man, he run for the hills. "You know what? I beat him. I wasn't myself. I'm going back up." Took the rematch and then got knocked out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:01

      Yeah. I didn't ... Uh, that's weird. I thought the re- the first fight was earlier. Now my brain's scrambled here 'cause I thought that that was immediately after the Ruiz fight that he got knocked out.

   3. AWAndre Ward9:12

      Yeah, it was. He w- he went back down.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:14

      Yeah, s- so d-

   5. AWAndre Ward9:14

      Yeah. So Ruiz, light heavyweight, went down, fought Tarver the first time, then fought the rematch, and then got knocked out the second time.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:19

      Oh, so they fought two times in a row?

   7. AWAndre Ward9:20

      They fought two times in a row and then-

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:22

      Oh.

   9. AWAndre Ward9:22

      ... they ended up fighting a third time-

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:23

       Okay.

   11. AWAndre Ward9:23

       ... like way down the road.

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:24

       Did they really? I didn't even know they fought a third time.

   13. AWAndre Ward9:27

       (laughs) They fought a third time in Florida, yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:28

       The, the, the loss of the weight was a terrible idea.

   15. AWAndre Ward9:30

       Can't do that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:31

       And also, let's be realistic about how he put that weight on. It's most likely there was some Mexican supplements involved. And if you're gonna put-

   17. AWAndre Ward9:38

       Man. (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:38

       ... that kind of bulk on, you know, I mean, I don't know.

   19. AWAndre Ward9:41

       Yeah, listen.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:42

       I'm ... I'm ... Roy Jones is one of my heroes.

   21. AWAndre Ward9:43

       Listen.

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:43

       And it's not, uh, disrespecting.

   23. AWAndre Ward9:44

       No, I hear you.

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:45

       But-

   25. AWAndre Ward9:46

       And, and, and I've heard people say stuff like that, but like I'm ... That's my guy.

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:50

       I hear you.

   27. AWAndre Ward9:50

       Like, I'm a kid, so I'm like, "No."

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:51

       I get it.

   29. AWAndre Ward9:51

       Like, "I don't believe it."

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:52

       I know it.
5. 11:04 – 15:11

   The Tyson fight that never happened—and the Golota rabbit hole

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:04

      What if Jones had remained a heavyweight? I mean, look, he was so goddamn fast. As ... I mean, John Ruiz just was whiffing at air in that fight mostly.

   2. AWAndre Ward11:11

      Well, the thing about the ... after the Ruiz fight is, (clears throat) you know, we had the same manager, uh, James Prince. There was a Tyson fight on the table. Uh, and I believe I'm accurate when I say this. It was somewhere around 40 million guaranteed.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:25

      Whoa.

   4. AWAndre Ward11:26

      There's an upside too. You stay at heavyweight, keep the weight on, and Tyson wasn't quite Tyson at that time.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:31

      Right.

   6. AWAndre Ward11:31

      Still dangerous, but wasn't quite Tyson. I think they were working toward it. From what I've heard, Roy wanted more money. James Prince was like, "Bro, take this 40 million. There's gonna be an upside. It's you and Mike Tyson. Roy Jones and Mike Tyson." Roy somehow said no. The fight'll be there later on down the road, put his attention toward Antonio Tarver, the rest is history.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:50

      Wow.I'm kinda glad he didn't fight Tyson.

   8. AWAndre Ward11:53

      Yeah. I wanted to see him fight Tyson and ride off in the sunset. (exhales) Uno mas, one more and we're out.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:58

      Yeah. But he... I don't think he would have r-... I don't think Roy was ever really gonna ride off in the sunset. He likes being Roy Jones Jr., so-

   10. AWAndre Ward12:04

       He likes to fight.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:05

       Tyson-Jones Head 2003 Fight Card. 2002, is that around when he fought Golota?

   12. G(Guest (secondary)12:11

       They were supposed to start a HBO Pay-Per-View, and they were supposed to be the first fight on it. And it didn't happen, I guess.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:16

       Then what, what... Go to, uh, Mike Tyson's Wikipedia, to his record, 'cause I think that was around the time where he fought Golota. He was still murking people.

   14. AWAndre Ward12:24

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:24

       I mean, he wasn't the Mike Tyson, uh, of, you know, the later years.

   16. AWAndre Ward12:28

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:29

       He was still-

   18. AWAndre Ward12:30

       I don't think Tyson fought Golota, did he?

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:31

       Oh, yeah, he stopped him. Yeah, Golota left the ring. He, he dropped him and hurt him real bad.

   20. AWAndre Ward12:36

       Andrew Golota?

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:36

       Yeah. And Golota's like, "Fuck this."

   22. AWAndre Ward12:37

       Really?

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       And his, his trainer called him a coward, they... He's yelling, screaming at him. He hit him with one punch and dropped him. And Golota's like, "Fuck this," and he broke something in his neck. He broke his face and something in his neck.

   24. AWAndre Ward12:48

       Yeah, you gotta look that up.

   25. G(Guest (secondary)12:49

       That's three years before this. That was 2000.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:51

       Oh, okay.

   27. AWAndre Ward12:52

       You never seen that? I probably did. I don't-

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       Oh.

   29. AWAndre Ward12:54

       I don't remember him fighting Tyson.

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:55

       Yeah. Golota left the ring. He dropped... See, it says, well, RTD, what does that stand for?
6. 15:11 – 18:41

   Ward’s torn shoulder at 12: fighting one-handed and the long rehab back

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:11

      (laughs) No, no, no, no. You know, you, uh, you had an amazing career, but one of the things that I think maybe people aren't as aware of is what makes your career even more incredible, is that you fought for a long time with a bad shoulder.

   2. AWAndre Ward15:25

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:25

      Like, if you go back and watch the Carl Froch fight, I watched that in getting ready for this. I'll watch it again. You box the shit out of him with mostly your left hand.

   4. AWAndre Ward15:34

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:35

      It was crazy.

   6. AWAndre Ward15:36

      Yeah. 12 years old, tore my subscapularis, um, which is 50... Is responsible for 50% of the strength in a rotator. Um, didn't really know it at the time. We were told, "Hey, he's too young. You know, he shouldn't have surgery, just rehab it." Wrong advice. Found that out, you know, 10 years later. But we just rehabbed it with, you know, bands and strengthening exercises, but we never had surgery. So, that was always kind of my Achilles heel, man. Like, I... It, it's been plenty of fights where I just fought one-handed, because it didn't feel strong. It didn't feel, like, safe. I felt like any time I would throw it, it could pop out of the socket. Like, that's how it felt.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:14

      So, it had popped out before?

   8. AWAndre Ward16:16

      It had not.

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:17

      Oh, but it felt like it could.

   10. AWAndre Ward16:19

       But it felt like it could. Um, got it fixed right around 2013, and- and it wasn't 100, but it was better. And I was able to finish out the rest of my career. Um, I got-

   11. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       So, it's still not 100 now?

   12. AWAndre Ward16:29

       It's not 100, but I'll take it. Yeah, I'll take it, bro. Like, I probably gained about 30-40% with that surgery.

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:35

       Wow.

   14. AWAndre Ward16:35

       Like, they, they grabbed it because the subscapularis was loose. It wasn't attached, but it wasn't atrophied. It was still like a fat, thriving muscle. It just wasn't attached. My doctor was like, "Whoa," like, "has, has this ever popped out of the socket before?" Doctor Michael Dillingham in, in San Francisco. I was like, "Nah." He was like, "How? Like, your shoulder capsule is, like, shot. The subscap is hanging." He said, "But the good news is it's still a thriving muscle. Let's get it attached." Boom, he attached it. Like, a four-hour surgery, something like that. One of those surgeries that you're not guaranteed to come out of the same. Um, and you had to wait for a month or so to see if the surgery took, like, if everything would mend and kind of get, you know, kind of get stronger. It took, man, and- and like I said, I finished out the rest of my career strong.

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:13

       Wow, so how long was the rehab?

   16. AWAndre Ward17:15

       Probably about eight months.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:17

       So, you went from... It was about 2012 to 2015 where you didn't fight very often. Is that... Was that because-

   18. AWAndre Ward17:24

       Very infrequently, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:25

       Was that because of the shoulder?

   20. AWAndre Ward17:26

       Combination of a lawsuit, uh, and the injury.

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:29

       Hm.

   22. AWAndre Ward17:29

       Yeah. It was kind of like back-to-back blows.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:31

       So, for eight months, you're rehabing it, and just still... Like, when did you know that for sure you were gonna be able to come back?

   24. AWAndre Ward17:39

       You kind of turn a corner in rehab. You know, three, three-month mark, you know, four-month mark, you kind of realize that, dude, like, I'm, I'm, I'm good. Like, I'm not where I need to be, but, like, I'm, I'm headed there.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:48

       Right.

   26. AWAndre Ward17:48

       So, probably about that time, about halfway through, you realize that you're gonna be okay. It's just gonna take some time to fully get the strength back. But even my next fight against Edwin Rodriguez, like, I still didn't throw it.And I didn't realize I didn't throw it until I watched the tape. I watched the tape, I was like, "Dang, he was still..." It was just like a one-handed affair. And then after that... The thing about injuries, it's weird, like that 12-month period for me has always been, like, just like that sweet spot. So I got to that 12-month period with the shoulder, and all of a sudden my overhand right came back. I hadn't thrown an overhand right in 10 years. You know, my, the power in my right uppercut came back. I'm like, "Dude, this is getting better." So after that, then you started to see that thing flying and started whistling. And, and ironically enough, my last fight, that was the punch that started all the trouble for Sergey Kovalev.

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:27

       Well, it's interesting because you were so successful with one hand, you know, it makes you wonder, like, wha- how goddamn good would you have been-

   28. AWAndre Ward18:36

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:36

       ... if you had two hands?

   30. AWAndre Ward18:37

       Yeah.
7. 18:41 – 21:43

   Southpaw solutions and the Diaz brothers’ role in camp

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:41

      One of the... It had to be. But one of the things you were so good at, man, was, uh... I don't have to tell you, you know this, was, uh, using your jab to shut down southpaw fighters.

   2. AWAndre Ward18:51

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:51

      Shut down-

   4. AWAndre Ward18:51

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:52

      ... their jab and counter.

   6. AWAndre Ward18:53

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:53

      You know, and you just had that... You had, like, extra juice with your left hand because you used it so much.

   8. AWAndre Ward18:59

      I had to. Like, when you have one hand or one arm that, that functions really well, like, you learn to make that thing great. Like, you know, you overcompensate. And that's what that left hand was, overcompensation because I didn't have the right hand to fall back on, you know. But the whole southpaw thing, shout out to my boy Nick and Nate Diaz, like, and all the work we've done in camp. Like, tho- those guys got me ready for a lot of my southpaw, uh, opponents, like, you know, midway through and toward the end of my career. So a lot of work with those guys, and specifically Nate. At a certain point, I stopped working with, uh, Nick 'cause he was doing other things. But Nate, man, and then the volume and having to, like, deal with the awkwardness and the height and the reach, and like, that got me ready for Chad Dawson.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:37

      That's amazing.

   10. AWAndre Ward19:38

       That was my boy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:39

       Yeah, he's a tough dude, man.

   12. AWAndre Ward19:40

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:41

       You know, and watching him come back after three years out of the game-

   14. AWAndre Ward19:44

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       ... and beat Pettis like that.

   16. AWAndre Ward19:45

       I shot him a message. I was like, "Bro, you're a bad man."

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:47

       (laughs)

   18. AWAndre Ward19:47

       "You're a bad man. Like three years, really?." Yeah, he's a bad man.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:50

       Well, I'm just happy that the UFC is finally recognizing the love and, and support that guy has from the fans too, 'cause for whatever reason, they were so high on Conor McGregor and all these other people, they didn't see-

   20. AWAndre Ward20:01

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:01

       ... one of the reasons why the Conor fight was so big was 'cause of Nate Diaz.

   22. AWAndre Ward20:04

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:04

       Nate Diaz is a fucking star.

   24. AWAndre Ward20:06

       Yeah, he is.

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:06

       When he, when they put his face on the screen-

   26. AWAndre Ward20:08

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:08

       ... for the Pettis fight, I mean, the arena erupted. It was chaos.

   28. AWAndre Ward20:12

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:12

       They went nuts.

   30. AWAndre Ward20:13

       Yeah. I mean, he... I don't know why they couldn't see it. (sighs) I mean, Conor obviously was, you know, he was a little bit different and he brought what he brought to the table, but probably would have been a good thing to try to balance them both out, show love to, to Nate. But, you know, he was like the rebel child, you know.
8. 21:43 – 22:47

   Damage, longevity, and why fans should value ‘the master’ style

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:43

      I always point to Muhammad Ali, when Muhammad Ali was forced to retire. When he took three years off and then he came back, he did not look physically-

   2. AWAndre Ward21:52

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:52

      ... like the same guy.

   4. AWAndre Ward21:52

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:53

      You know, he... W- who did he come back and fight? It wasn't Chuck Wepner, it was, uh... What the fuck's his name?

   6. AWAndre Ward21:58

      Was it Zero Foley?

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:59

      No, no, no, no, no. It was, um... (clicks tongue) Fuck. (sniffs) The... it's, it's a tragic guy, a white dude, and then his brother was also like, uh... Fuck, I'm not remembering this fucking name.

   8. AWAndre Ward22:12

      I don't think I know who you're talking about, man. Um, um, um, um, um, um, um...

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:15

      Jamie'll pull it up.

   10. AWAndre Ward22:16

       I know who you're talking about too. Uh, Quarry.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:18

       Yes.

   12. AWAndre Ward22:19

       Jerry Quarry.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:20

       Jerry Quarry. Yeah, Jerry Quarry, and his brother apparently, who only had like one or two pro fights-

   14. AWAndre Ward22:24

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:25

       ... at all, also had severe dementia by the time he died.

   16. AWAndre Ward22:28

       He, he had how many fights, his brother?

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:29

       His brother only had a couple.

   18. AWAndre Ward22:30

       (sighs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:30

       I think he only had a couple pro fights.

   20. AWAndre Ward22:32

       I didn't know that about him.

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:33

       It was mostly just gym wars. If I rem-

   22. AWAndre Ward22:34

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:34

       ... I think I remember correctly.

   24. AWAndre Ward22:35

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       But Quarry and his, his dad apparently forced them to have that kind of fight style.

   26. AWAndre Ward22:41

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:41

       They, they just went to war all the time.

   28. AWAndre Ward22:43

       Not good, bro.

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:43

       And... Yes, and during the end of his career, uh, th- the end of his life, I should say.

9. 22:47 – 29:23

   Virgil Hunter’s influence and Ward’s composure under fire

   1. AWAndre Ward22:47

      That's why I don't, that's why I don't, I don't subscribe... Like here's the thing. Like, for me, this is my view on it. If you love combat sports, if you love fighting, if you love boxing, like you, you enjoy it all. Like I love the guy that has to take two to give one, but then I also love the master. And I'll just speak for boxing, the, the problem that we have is like, we've ostracized the, the master of the game. Instead of articulating what we're seeing or trying to articulate what we're seeing and leaving that, you know, leaving it right there, let it be what it is and let the fans decide what they like and don't like, we try to tell the fans what they should like, "Oh, you know, this is boring." Now hold on, that's the guy that's gonna be speaking properly when all is said and done. This guy, hopefully he is too, but the likelihood is a lot less because you take giving two to get one, but as soon as that guy gets knocked out, then all of a sudden everybody turns on him.

   2. JRJoe Rogan23:32

      Yeah.

   3. AWAndre Ward23:33

      So I'm thankful that when I walked into the gym for the first time, my dad was scouring for a trainer who could teach his son how to hit and not get hit. He saw Virg, who became my godfather and has been my trainer, you know, for my whole career. He said, he said, "Man, I was a, you know, I'm a fan of Muhammad Ali." He said, "I've had 15, you know, amateur fights as a heavyweight. Can you teach my son how to hit and not get hit?"And Virg said, "That's my specialty." But just think if my dad was on something else.

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:00

      Mm-hmm.

   5. AWAndre Ward24:01

      What if my dad was like, (panting) "I just can't... Make my son tough."

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:03

      Right.

   7. AWAndre Ward24:03

      You know? "I want him to take it and dish it out."

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:06

      Right.

   9. AWAndre Ward24:06

      I may not be sitting before you right now.

   10. JRJoe Rogan24:08

       And if he did, it would probably be a different kind of conversation. Yeah, Virgil Hunter is a special guy. He really is. You could tell when you hear him talking. You know, when you, you hear him talk about the game and the way he would formulate game plans and strategies. You know?

   11. AWAndre Ward24:20

       Sure.

   12. JRJoe Rogan24:20

       It's like, you know, I remember... I think it was the Chad Dawson fight. I think it was that, when he knocked out Chad Dawson, when, you know, you could see the look in his face-

   13. AWAndre Ward24:30

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:30

       ... of, of happiness and accomplishment.

   15. AWAndre Ward24:33

       Yeah, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan24:33

       But also, we got through the danger.

   17. AWAndre Ward24:35

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan24:35

       (exhales) We did it, it's over.

   19. AWAndre Ward24:37

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan24:38

       And, but game accomplished.

   21. AWAndre Ward24:39

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan24:39

       You know, when... Yeah, when you have a special relationship, whether it's in MMA or whether it's in boxing, those special relationships between a trainer and a fighter, they're so valuable.

   23. AWAndre Ward24:49

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan24:49

       So, it's... And to me, as a person who loves to watch the sport, I appreciate them so much because I know that, like, you could get there on your own.

   25. AWAndre Ward24:57

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:57

       You know, you can get there and have, like, feuds with your trainer-

   27. AWAndre Ward25:00

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:00

       ... and break up. You can get... Like Kovalev does.

   29. AWAndre Ward25:02

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:02

       You know, like, Kovalev's John David Jackson-
10. 29:23 – 33:50

    Kovalev decoded: excuses, body work, and breaking ‘The Crusher’

    1. JRJoe Rogan29:23

       What did you see from the talking?

    2. AWAndre Ward29:25

       Just excuse-making. He didn't give me any credit.

    3. JRJoe Rogan29:29

       Hmm.

    4. AWAndre Ward29:29

       He, he started... I mean, if it wasn't the re- And I'm exaggerating, but just for the, for the case of emphasis, you know, the, if the ring lights weren't too bright, the referee was against him. If it wasn't the referee, it was the judges. Like, he never owned up to anything that he did wrong. But if I go back to the research that we did about him before we even fought him the first time, that lined up with what we heard. "The guy, he doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't take ownership of anything. He blames everybody. Anytime anything goes wrong, he's a front-runner. He's a bully. He's this, he's that."That confirmed everything we had heard. So, you're the Crusher, you're Sergey Kovalev, you knock me down in the second round, not the eleventh, the second round. You were supposed to finish me, sir. The fact that we're even talking about a fight being close, and the fact that I finished the fight, that's bothering you. That, that, that, that's a chi- that, that's, that's chipping away at this whole Crusher thing that you been, that you've been living on. And he couldn't handle it, and instead of owning it, he blamed John David Jackson, he blamed this guy, he blamed that guy. That's a sign of weakness, man, not strength.

    5. JRJoe Rogan30:32

       Mm. Were you impressed with him getting through the eighth round against Yarde in his last fight?

    6. AWAndre Ward30:38

       I wouldn't say impressed. I mean, listen, he, he hasn't gotten where he's gotten by not being tough. So, generally speaking, he's tough. He's a tough individual, to a point. I wasn't surprised, I, I was just... I was like, "Dude, if you ever... If a fighter has ever been saved by the bell, you were just saved by the bell." Like, you were a punch or, a punch or two away from getting, you know, getting stopped in your home country and in your home, your home city, hometown. That was the only kinda, like, jarring part of it. Um, and then my next thought was, "Can he recover? Is he gonna be able to physically recover, but then psychologically come back and try to get back what Yarde took from him in that round?" And he did that. So, he showed me that he's still got something in the tank, but he, he, he's, um, he... What's the right way to say it? He's fading fast. Like, he's fading right before our eyes.

    7. JRJoe Rogan31:29

       Mm.

    8. AWAndre Ward31:29

       He doesn't have the reaction, he doesn't have... He's still very good, he still, he still can beat a lot of guys, but he's fading fast. If there's a Canelo fight on the table, I think he should take it and ride off into the sunset, man. Go enjoy your life.

    9. JRJoe Rogan31:41

       Well, it was interesting how you exposed him in the second fight, because of the body shots. The body shots have been a weakness, like, since then. Everybody has kind of compromised his body. They've, they've found what you found out. Was that something you knew going into the second fight, or did you know it in the first fight? Like, when, when-

    10. AWAndre Ward31:59

        We knew that in the first fight.

    11. JRJoe Rogan32:00

        Did you?

    12. AWAndre Ward32:01

        Problem with me in the, in the first fight, um, first couple rounds I was thinking too much and this dude came out fast. So I'm thinking, like, I'm trying to get my range and he's like, boom, boom, boom. And he's... It's not that he's, like, this crazy power puncher, it's just that he's sharp and he's accurate. So I'm, like, catching shots, I'm getting hit with jabs. I'm trying to figure... He didn't give me a chance to think. And then, boom, I got hit with the right hand and I'm like, "That's it, bro." So that was the best thing that could've happened to me, like I said earlier. And then you saw the body attack get implemented. So that was always the game plan. I won the second fight with everything that I did in the first fight. Like, we unlocked the code in the first fight.

    13. JRJoe Rogan32:38

        Mm.

    14. AWAndre Ward32:38

        But people couldn't get past the knockdown-

    15. JRJoe Rogan32:39

        Right.

    16. AWAndre Ward32:40

        ... they failed to, to look at the, the, you know, the next 10 rounds.

    17. JRJoe Rogan32:42

        But, yeah, the next 10 rounds, you started to take over and you were solving this-

    18. AWAndre Ward32:46

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan32:46

        ... the riddle. It's interesting, the, the, the difference in power punchers. Like, there's levels of power punchers.

    20. AWAndre Ward32:51

        Yeah, yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan32:52

        We always thought of him as this power puncher.

    22. AWAndre Ward32:54

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan32:54

        Like, 'cause he's the Crusher, he knocked-

    24. AWAndre Ward32:55

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan32:55

        ... a lot of people out. But then there's, like, a Julian Jackson-

    26. AWAndre Ward32:58

        Different.

    27. JRJoe Rogan32:58

        ... level. There's a snap-

    28. AWAndre Ward33:00

        Different.

    29. JRJoe Rogan33:00

        ... and then some people just go stiff and-

    30. AWAndre Ward33:02

        George Foreman.
11. 33:50 – 42:38

    Ward’s toughness, fear management, and motivation beyond haters

    1. AWAndre Ward33:50

       I mean, listen, he did have power, I don't wanna-

    2. JRJoe Rogan33:52

       Yes.

    3. AWAndre Ward33:52

       ... take away from him.

    4. JRJoe Rogan33:52

       No, yes, definitely.

    5. AWAndre Ward33:53

       Like, he, he beat a lot of guys in their hometowns, home countries, like, and it's a reason why. Like, at a certain point in the fight, you would see him hit a guy and then all of a sudden their body language was different.

    6. JRJoe Rogan34:01

       Mm-hmm.

    7. AWAndre Ward34:02

       And I think one thing that was lost on my whole career that nobody ever talked about, was I probably had one of the best chins in the sport of boxing over the last, you know, at that time, 10 years. Like, I had, I had beaten the best, the, the, the heaviest punchers in, in the game and in my weight class. Like, if you look at Kovalev, outta all the damage that he's done in the light heavyweight division, he had 20 rounds and he had one moment. He didn't have a wobble, he didn't have a sh- he didn't shake me up anywhere, be... One moment, and it was a flash moment. So, just quantify that. Like, a guy who... His name is The Crusher, like, he is who he is, he had one moment in 20 rounds. So a lot of it had to do with my chin, a lot of it had to do with my toughness, um, which is also underrated. And, and I just, like... I know this is gonna sound dramatic. I know it's gonna sound dramatic, but I didn't like to lose, and for me it was kinda like either win or die. Like, that's ef- like, that's how I felt. Like, it wasn't that serious, but that's how it felt. Like, I always thought about Sunday morning. Like, "Dude, if you lose, it's gonna be a crazy ride home on that plane. Family's gonna be looking crazy, feeling bad. Everybody's gonna be looking at you different. Like, and you're gonna feel crazy." Like, I remember being curled up, like, in a ball, on a Southwest flight, coming back from Lenexa, Kansas, uh, losing my... The, the last fight I ever lost, against John Revish, a guy from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 14 years old.

    8. JRJoe Rogan35:26

       How old were you back then?

    9. AWAndre Ward35:26

       14.

    10. JRJoe Rogan35:26

        14. That is hilarious. 14...

    11. AWAndre Ward35:29

        14 years old.

    12. JRJoe Rogan35:30

        ... till retired, never lost again.

    13. AWAndre Ward35:32

        And John was... It was a 14, 15-year-old bracket, so he was a little bit older. And he was kind of a stocky kid, again, country strong. And we were watching each other, we're in separate brackets. So, you know, it's, like, a five-day tournament, you can fight four to five times and get to the finals. And I'm looking at him, and I was a little bit intimidated. He didn't punk me, like, "Oh, I'm scared to death." But I, I was like, "Man, I'm a little leery." And he was knocking guys out, and I was decisioning guys along the way.It could have went either way, I think he won a 3-2 decision. Three judges went his way, two judges went my way. But that w- ev- but if I was honest with myself, like, I got beat before the fight. And at that moment, like, feeling the way I felt coming home, I made up my mind, like, "Dude, if it, i- i- (sighs) as much as that's up to me, like, that's never gonna happen again." Like, I can't control every, every aspect of the fight game, stuff happens, but it's not gonna be because you beat me before the fight. I can't live with this anymore. So, that was my motivation, man, that, just the drive. Like, it was like win or die. And then, and then here's the thing about boxing, the onl- I don't know about MMA, but the only sport that I know of where one loss changes your pay scale. Like, if you have a minimum, like, hey, you win a title, your first defense is this, second defense is that, these are your minimums. We'll negotiate beyond that, you know, whatever, whatever. Go ahead and lose one, that's gonna get cut in half. So, a loss literally takes food off my family's table. I also knew that my critics and my supporters, but namely my critics, they had a front row seat every fight.

    14. JRJoe Rogan37:03

        Mm, got the type and the writers.

    15. AWAndre Ward37:05

        Right, they're looking, they're looking down, they're looking up, looking down, looking up.

    16. JRJoe Rogan37:07

        Oh.

    17. AWAndre Ward37:07

        So, I'd get in the ring, you know, before the first bell would, would ring, and I'd go around and kinda just feel the ring out and kinda look out, and I'd always see them looking, "Is tonight gonna be the night?" So, I had that weighing on me. I had the, the supporters that believed in me and was riding for me. And I looked, you know, first couple rows, my family's right there, my wife, my kids, I'd always blow our kiss. Like, all of this stuff was, like, tangible and real to me, and that's the stuff that would drive me. And so, when I get knocked down by a Kovalev, like, that's fight or flight time, baby. Like, whatever's in you is gonna come out. If you got some turn in you, that's the time you gonna turn.

    18. JRJoe Rogan37:42

        Mm.

    19. AWAndre Ward37:42

        It's gonna be self-preservation mode, and you're gonna be so... You're gonna be more focused on surviving than you are trying to win. And I thank God, man, that, that, that he had his hand on me that night, bro, and that what was in me was real and it was enough to break him, and the rest is history.

    20. JRJoe Rogan38:01

        The rest is history. It is, uh, it is amazing how much energy people get from haters. I mean, I don't, I don't recommend reading negative comments-

    21. AWAndre Ward38:10

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan38:11

        ... or negative articles.

    23. AWAndre Ward38:12

        (sniffs)

    24. JRJoe Rogan38:12

        But it's amazing how people with a certain kind of resolve, a championship resolve, will take that hater shit, and you'll get up 15 minutes earlier than you're supposed to.

    25. AWAndre Ward38:21

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan38:21

        And you'll have more intensity i- in your shadow boxing, and you'll, you'll, you just push harder. You'll feel it.

    27. AWAndre Ward38:26

        But I don't wanna give the haters too much credit though.

    28. JRJoe Rogan38:28

        (laughs) Well, it's all you.

    29. AWAndre Ward38:29

        I don't wanna give the haters too much credit, like-

    30. JRJoe Rogan38:31

        It's all you. Well, they gave you fuel, though.
12. 42:38 – 56:37

    Super Six tournament: being underestimated and winning the title at home

    1. JRJoe Rogan42:38

       Was this before or after the Super Six tournament?

    2. AWAndre Ward42:41

       Which one?

    3. JRJoe Rogan42:41

       That all this was going on with the lawsuits?

    4. AWAndre Ward42:43

       After.

    5. JRJoe Rogan42:43

       It was after?

    6. AWAndre Ward42:44

       After, shortly after.

    7. JRJoe Rogan42:44

       So the Super Six tournament, though, was where people knew you were an Olympic gold medalist, but that was where... Like, coming into that, who was the favorite?

    8. AWAndre Ward42:53

       (inhales deeply) Uh, the favorite was, it was kind of like threefold, but it was Kessler. Um, Arthur Abraham was dominant at 160. He had just moved up to 68, so everybody felt like it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna dominate at the heavier weight class. Carl Froch was the WBC champion, but he was still kind of, like, relatively unknown. Like, you know, he had potential, had a belt, but w- you know, he was probably, you know... I don't know, the, the third favorite. And then you had (clicks tongue) , uh, Andre Dirrell. Obviously, you had myself and you had Jermaine Taylor. And the Americans, or at least this is how I viewed it, we were just, like, we were just there to make it interesting. It wasn't about us. It was th- it was the Europeans' party.

    9. JRJoe Rogan43:34

       Hmm.

    10. AWAndre Ward43:35

        Um, and it's funny, because I almost didn't fight in the tournament. I was in Mexico on vacation, and I'd been hearing about the Super Six. But internally, me and my manager, he was like, "Dre, I don't, I don't think this thing's gonna come together. These guys are fighting, it, uh, uh... Hey, man, go enjoy your vacation." So I did that, right? I flew into San Diego, we drove to Mexico, and I ended up getting, like, a double ear infection. Uh, I was messed up.

    11. JRJoe Rogan44:01

        From the ocean?

    12. AWAndre Ward44:03

        J- uh, probably, just something like that. Yeah, it just kind of came upon me. I don't know, I don't exactly know the origin of it. So I'm like r- I had a little bit of internet access, so I'm looking at stuff. I'm like, "Eh, these guys are... Wait, they're doing a kickoff pre- press conference in New York?" So I called James, I'm like, you know, "J, what's up?" He was like, "Hey, man, you need to get there, like, ASAP, bro. This thing's going down." I'm like, "Whoa." I'm like, "You told me it wasn't gonna happen."

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:23

        (laughs)

    14. AWAndre Ward44:23

        He's like, "I didn't think it was." (laughs) So, but he was also like, "You know what, though? If you don't wanna go, it's all good. We'll figure it out." So I'm like, "Man, I don't wanna go. I'm s- I'm with my family." I call Verge. I give him the whole spiel. And it's probably, like, two, three times in my life he's had this kind of tone. He was like, "Listen, son, you need to get on a plane. You're not gonna make the New York press conference. The next stop is Germany, Arthur Abraham's home country. Get there." I'm like, "Man, I'm in... You know, I'm with my family." Give him the whole spiel. He said, "Get there." So we pack up, we drive two or three hours to San Diego, get on a flight, drive my family back to the Bay Area. Boom, drop them off, get on a flight, a red-eye, that night, double ear infection, wake up in Germany. And that was my, that was their second stop, but that was my first stop. And that's when I really got the revelation that, "Man, they, this is a joke." Like, like, this, they think that me, Dirrell and, and, and Taylor, like, we're just going... Like, that's when I took exception, and that was when I really kind of, like, realized that, dude, like, th- this is either... This is gonna be a sink or swim moment for you. Either you gonna get... Like, I could've got ruined in the Super Six. Like, it could've went a whole nother way. Or what I knew was in me was gonna be, you know, displayed an- and- and shown to the world.

    15. JRJoe Rogan45:35

        And so when you beat Kessler and you won your first title, that had to be a beautiful moment. I mean-

    16. AWAndre Ward45:42

        Unreal. (blows air) Unreal. Unreal. And it was in my hometown. Like, the same arena, Oracle Arena, where the Warriors had played for many, many years. And I'm kind of salty they're leaving, man. They- they're going-

    17. JRJoe Rogan45:52

        (laughs)

    18. AWAndre Ward45:52

        ... to Chase Arena. I'm not happy, man. I'm, I'm not happy. Um, I used to pass by that arena on, uh, Highway 880 going to King's Gym. And I used to look and it'd be, it'd be on the right side, and I'd be like, "Man, Virg, I wonder if I'm gonna fight there one day." He said, "Babe, you fight there, you're gonna headline." I was like, "Really?" I'm talking 12, 13 years old. Wow. Like, "Man, I'm, I'm a headline?" And Kessler's arrogance allowed that fight to take place in my hometown. He had more knockouts than I had victories. Like, "Man, this dude. Like, I'm, I'm not only gonna beat him, I'm gonna beat him in his hometown." Uh, so we fought there, uh, I think it was November 19th. And, uh, just unreal, man. And, like, for a gold medalist, like, like, people don't understand the pressure you have coming into the game. Like, like, everything you do well, you're expected to do well, but if there's one slip-up, now it's like, you know, everybody comes out the woodworks, "Oh, I told you-

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:43

        Yeah.

    20. AWAndre Ward46:43

        ... he wasn't gonna be there." So to get the monkey off my back to win my first title was just... That pressure, like, re- that release of pressure was just immense.

    21. JRJoe Rogan46:52

        I remember when I was a kid when the Olympic team had so many guys that went on to win world champions, like Pernell Whitaker. Was it the '76 Olympic team?

    22. AWAndre Ward47:01

        '84.

    23. JRJoe Rogan47:01

        '84.

    24. AWAndre Ward47:02

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan47:02

        Uh, Pernell Whitaker, Mark Breland. You know, there was, uh, there was so many guys from that era.

    26. AWAndre Ward47:09

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan47:09

        That was, uh, Meldrik Taylor.

    28. AWAndre Ward47:10

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan47:11

        You know, uh, who else? Who else?

    30. AWAndre Ward47:14

        Uh, Holyfield, Holyfield was there.
13. 56:37 – 1:16:56

    The decision to retire: the three-fight HBO plan and walking away anyway

    1. JRJoe Rogan56:37

       Now, how did you make the decision? You stop him in the second fight, how did you make the decision that that's it?

    2. AWAndre Ward56:42

       (inhales deeply) It was almost it for me after the first fight.

    3. JRJoe Rogan56:45

       Really?

    4. AWAndre Ward56:46

       Yeah. That's the closest I've ever... I've talked retirement in the past, uh, like internally with my wife and stuff. Um, but after the first fight, I don't know if it was... Uh, I think it was physical, like all the surgeries and rehab and just the years of fighting-

    5. JRJoe Rogan57:02

       How many different surgeries did you have?

    6. AWAndre Ward57:03

       About three.

    7. JRJoe Rogan57:04

       All in the shoulder or-

    8. AWAndre Ward57:05

       No. Shoulder, knee... Yeah, yeah. One ACL, one meniscus. Yeah. Um, I think it was the physical part, I think it was just the, the, the toll of the sport and then may- may- maybe some of the reaction. Like, like, you know, for a split second I'm like, "Here we go again." Like, like, it's always something, you know. I beat the guy that you guys say I couldn't beat and that now, now, you know, people feel like I got robbed. Like, that's a fight that could have went either way, you know, by a point or two. You can't... You can't have a polarizing opinion about it. You may say, "Man, I thought Ward lost." I can live with that. But all the Rob stuff, like-

    9. JRJoe Rogan57:41

       Yeah.

    10. AWAndre Ward57:41

        So I think it was a combination of just everything wh-... I was like, "Man, I'm done, man." Like, "I'm not doing this no more." I didn't do anything for three months after that fight. And I remember going to speak to my pastor about it because he did the same thing. Like, he... You know, he was all everything at, at UDub, played six years in the league and all of a sudden, boom, one day he was like, "I'm done." And never looked back. So I went and sat with him and I was like, "Man, pastor, I don't know, man. I think I'm done." He's just listening, very wise man. And, um, so I'm giving him the whole spiel, I'm like, "Man, I haven't done nothing in three months. I've never done that, that's gotta be a sign, I'm done." He said, "You know what, son?" He said, "I think, uh..." He said, "I think you'll be fine if you, if you retire." He said, "But I think you got one more left in you." I remember just... I thought he was gonna side with me.

    11. JRJoe Rogan58:23

        (laughs)

    12. AWAndre Ward58:24

        I thought he was gonna be like, "Yeah, son, that's it." And I was a little disappointed, honestly. I was like, "Really?" I was like, "Yeah, but I told you I hadn't done anything in three months." He was like, "I know, I know, I know." He said, "Once you get going, you know, the fire will be rekindled."

    13. JRJoe Rogan58:38

        Wow.

    14. AWAndre Ward58:38

        So I took him at his word and I started to kind of get back going moving my body, and then that happened. I started to get that fire back. And, uh, once we got the money right, I was like, "All right, I'm gonna do it again." Boom, won the fight. And I didn't know for sure, but I was kind of feeling like, "Okay, well, you know, I felt like that after the first one, this may be it after the second one." But then the opportunities started coming. HBO had a three-fight deal on the table. And basically it was gonna be a gimme fight in Oakland at home, kind of a celebration, a move to cruiserweight against Tony Bellew, probably in the UK.

    15. JRJoe Rogan59:13

        Did you want to move to cruiserweight?

    16. AWAndre Ward59:15

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was nothing else at light heavyweight.

    17. JRJoe Rogan59:17

        What about a rubber match? That wasn't exciting for you? No?

    18. AWAndre Ward59:20

        I beat him twice.

    19. JRJoe Rogan59:21

        Did Kovalev ask for a rubber match?

    20. AWAndre Ward59:22

        No.

    21. JRJoe Rogan59:22

        No, really?

    22. AWAndre Ward59:24

        I mean, he would probably put... If somebody asked him like, "You want a rematch or what?" "Yes, of course." He didn't want it. He didn't really want it. So that was the three-fight exit strategy with HBO. Gimme fight at light heavy. I was probably gonna do a catch weight at home, cruiserweight and then-

    23. JRJoe Rogan59:37

        What did you walk around at?

    24. AWAndre Ward59:39

        Back then?

    25. JRJoe Rogan59:39

        Yeah.

    26. AWAndre Ward59:41

        About 85.

    27. JRJoe Rogan59:42

        So you would have had to gain weight.

    28. AWAndre Ward59:45

        I'd have had to tighten myself up at, at 85, 90. Probably a little weight, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan59:49

        'Cause cruiserweight limit is 90?

    30. AWAndre Ward59:50

        It's 200.

Episode duration: 1:53:58