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How to build a powerful marketing machine | Emily Kramer (Asana, Carta, MKT1)

Emily Kramer led and built the marketing teams at Asana, Carta, Ticketfly, and Astro (acquired by Slack). These days, she’s the co-founder of MKT1, where she helps founders and marketers build and scale their marketing functions. Emily is also a well-respected angel investor and writes my favorite marketing newsletter (MKT1). In today’s episode, she shares her insights on when to hire marketers, how to determine which type of marketing hire is best for your team, how to best work with marketing, and what red flags to look for. Emily shares actionable templates and some incredible frameworks that are sure to expand your marketing knowledge. Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-powerful-marketing — Where to find Emily Kramer: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/emilykramer • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilykramer/ • MKT1 Newsletter: https://mkt1.substack.com/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible: • Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/ • Lenny’s Job Board: https://www.lennysjobs.com/talent • Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lenny — Referenced: • Building an efficient marketing machine: the fuel & the engine: https://mkt1.substack.com/p/fuel-engine • The GACC Marketing Brief: https://mkt1.substack.com/p/the-gacc-marketing-brief-the-best • The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference: https://www.amazon.com/Tipping-Point-Little-Things-Difference/dp/0316346624 • Crossing the Chasm: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986/ • Purple Cow: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable: https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Cow-Transform-Business-Remarkable/dp/014101640X • All the Light We Cannot See: https://www.amazon.com/All-Light-We-Cannot-See/dp/1501173219/ • The Daily podcast: https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-daily • Stream Yellowjackets on Showtime: https://www.sho.com/yellowjackets • CODA on Apple TV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/coda/umc.cmc.3eh9r5iz32ggdm4ccvw5igiir • Ashley Mayer’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleymayer/ • Kevan Lee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevanlee/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Emily’s background (06:08) Hiring a marketing team (11:26) Examples of fuel and engine in marketing (16:00) What is a product marketer? (18:20) Why you should start with a marketing generalist (20:30) The difference between a growth person and a product person (23:57) What to look for in a product marketer (26:58) When to hire a marketing person (30:45) The role of a brand marketer (33:24) Marketing for PLG startups (36:22) What is product-led growth? (39:23) How to get product and marketing to collaborate (43:38) What is the GACC framework? (47:58 ) How to know if your marketing team is effective (54:33) Why founders need angel investors with functional expertise (1:00:23) Lightning round — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Emily KramerguestLenny Rachitskyhost
Sep 10, 20221h 10mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Fuel-and-engine marketing: hiring, structure, and collaboration for growth

  1. Emily Kramer, veteran early-stage B2B marketing leader (Asana, Carta, Ticketfly), shares a practical framework for building a high-impact marketing function, especially at startups. She reframes marketing into two core components—“fuel” (content, positioning, creative assets) and “engine” (distribution, channels, ops, tracking)—and explains how this guides your first marketing hire. Emily outlines key marketer archetypes (product marketing, content/community, growth/demand gen), when to hire each, and why generalist “pi-shaped” marketers are ideal early on. She also dives into how product and marketing can collaborate effectively, what good marketing looks like from a PM’s perspective, and how functional experts can parlay their skills into impactful angel investing.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Start with fuel vs. engine to diagnose your marketing gaps.

Fuel is what you create (positioning, copy, content, tools, templates, design); engine is how you distribute and track it (email flows, SEO, ads, ops, segmentation). Before hiring, ask where you’re constrained—do you lack compelling assets (fuel) or effective distribution and systems (engine)?

Prioritize business-model experience over industry familiarity in early hires.

Founders often over-index on ‘has marketed to my audience’ and under-index on ‘has done my go-to-market motion’ (enterprise sales vs. PLG vs. self-serve). A strong marketer can learn a new audience, but if they haven’t operated in your business model, their playbook may be useless.

Hire generalist “pi-shaped” marketers, not narrow specialists, at the start.

Early on, you want marketers with two strong spikes (e.g., product + growth, or product + content) and working knowledge across other areas. They can set strategy, execute, and orchestrate contractors, rather than being locked into a single channel like SEO or paid search.

Most startups should hire a product marketer who can also do growth.

The most common winning first hire is a product marketer who can write well and understands growth channels and metrics. They sit between fuel and engine: defining positioning and messaging, writing core copy, shaping launches, and knowing how to use channels to reach the right audience.

Marketing should be measured on impact, not activity volume.

Red flags include goals like ‘publish 10 blog posts’ instead of targets tied to funnel metrics, traffic quality, and conversion rates. Strong marketing teams can articulate core “keep the lights on” work, a few clear big bets for step-change growth, and the foundational plumbing they’re fixing.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Forget the product marketing, content marketing, demand gen, growth. Think of marketing as you need fuel and you need an engine.

Emily Kramer

Great marketers learn the audience and the product quickly. The business model really dictates what marketing does in a big way.

Emily Kramer

You more want to hire a generalist than a specialist. I call them pi-shaped marketers—two spikes and breadth across everything else.

Emily Kramer

Product-led growth is a misnomer. It really means not as much sales, which means product plus marketing.

Emily Kramer

You can’t grow at the rate a venture-backed startup should grow by just doing incremental things. You need core work and you need big bets.

Emily Kramer

Fuel vs. engine framework for understanding marketing workHow and when to make your first marketing hire at a startupMarketing archetypes: product, content/community, growth/demand gen, brandThe “pi-shaped” marketer and why generalists beat specialists early onPLG vs. sales-led models and their implications for marketing rolesEffective collaboration and ownership between product and marketingHow functional expertise (e.g., marketing) translates into angel investing impact

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