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Mastering product strategy and growing as a PM | Maggie Crowley (Toast, Drift, TripAdvisor)

Maggie Crowley is VP of product at Toast and previously vice president and head of product at Charlie Health, senior director of product management at Drift, and a PM at TripAdvisor. She’s also the host of Build, a podcast dedicated to product and product management. In today’s conversation, Maggie shares: • The value of building a broad-based PM skill set • Three qualities of the best product managers • A step-by-step guide for crafting a product strategy • How to break into PM • Why great writing is often just simplifying your writing • Why being too data-driven is a red flag • The impact of content creation on Maggie’s career — Brought to you by Productroadmap.ai—AI to connect your roadmaps to revenue: https://productroadmap.ai | Composer—the AI-powered trading platform: https://www.composer.trade/ | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/ Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/mastering-product-strategy-and-growing-as-a-pm-maggie-crowley-toast-drift-tripadvisor/ Where to find Maggie Crowley: • X: https://twitter.com/maggiecrowley • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maggie-crowley-42a97112/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Maggie’s background (04:06) Three common traits among the best PMs (09:33) Strategy is an important but small part of the job (11:14) How to get better at simplification (15:13) Ownership (17:53) Examples of simplifying your work (19:39) Maggie’s Slack support group (21:37) Following up on your work (23:23) PM time horizon (26:31) Staying in your role vs. trying a new opportunity (27:37) The importance of “carrying the water”  (28:56) Pros and cons of the PM job (31:42) Advice on landing a PM role (34:36) Step-by-step process for writing your product strategy (39:55) Not every feature needs a strategy (46:29) The value of working through the process (48:09) Maggie’s one-pager doc  (54:16) Contrarian corner (55:44) The worst product Maggie ever shipped (58:33) Why being “data-driven” is a red flag (1:01:10) Content creation (1:14:27) Closing thoughts (1:15:17) Lightning round Referenced: • David Cancel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dcancel/ • On Writing Well: The Classic Guide to Writing Nonfiction: https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Well-Classic-Guide-Nonfiction/dp/0060891548 • Notion: https://www.notion.so/ • The Minto Pyramid Principle and the SCR Framework: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/minto-pyramid-principle-scr • Drift: https://www.drift.com/ • Maggies Top 5 Product Lessons for 2021: https://www.drift.com/podcasts/build/?wchannelid=hg0p3zf4yx&wmediaid=nxrdvmotr3 • Unpacking Amazon’s unique ways of working | Bill Carr: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/unpacking-amazons-unique-ways-of-working-bill-carr-author-of-working-backwards/ • Inside Linear: Building with taste, craft, and focus | Karri Saarinen: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/inside-linear-building-with-taste-craft-and-focus-karri-saarinen-co-founder-designer-ceo/ • Adam Medros on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amedros/ • Strategy Doc Template: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1frggEj_gfFD4--8eNkkyY-zHryXbN5uIS8uiMDCYVes/edit • How Figma builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-figma-builds-product • Shreyas Doshi on pre-mortems, the LNO framework, the three levels of product work, why most execution problems are strategy problems, and ROI vs. opportunity cost thinking: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/shreyas-doshi-on-pre-mortems-the-lno-framework-the-three-levels-of-product-work-why-most-execution-problems-are-strategy-problems-and-roi-vs-opportunity-cost-thinking/ • Einstein quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/albert_einstein_122232 • The Presentation Secrets of Steve Jobs: How to Be Insanely Great in Front of Any Audience: https://www.amazon.com/Presentation-Secrets-Steve-Jobs-Insanely/dp/0071636080 • Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Dont Have All the Facts: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Bets-Making-Smarter-Decisions/dp/0735216371 • Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-People-Tactics-Management-Building/dp/1953953212/r • Slow Horses on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/slow-horses/umc.cmc.2szz3fdt71tl1ulnbp8utgq5o • Future: https://www.future.co/ • Ladder: https://www.joinladder.com/ • Pump Log: https://pumplogapp.com/ • Huckleberry: https://huckleberrycare.com/ • Toast: https://pos.toasttab.com/ • Careers at Toast: https://careers.toasttab.com/homepage Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Maggie CrowleyguestLenny Rachitskyhost
Nov 4, 20231h 22mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Maggie Crowley: Gritty PM habits that actually drive product impact

  1. Maggie Crowley, VP of Product at Toast and former Olympic speed skater, shares what really separates great product managers from the rest, beyond the usual buzzwords like strategy and communication.
  2. She highlights three core behaviors: simplifying and focusing on the one thing that matters, rigorously following up on results, and “carrying the water” by doing unglamorous work others avoid.
  3. Maggie also breaks down how to write practical product strategy and one-pagers, critiques over-reliance on being “data-driven” and on product content frameworks, and talks candidly about career growth, failure, and breaking into PM.
  4. Throughout, she emphasizes that PM work is messy, often unsexy, and takes years of reps—but can be deeply fun and rewarding if you focus on impact over frameworks and titles.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Great PMs ruthlessly simplify and stick with the most important thing.

Across company stages, the best PMs can cut through noise, choose the single most important problem, say no to everything else, and then stay on it long enough to ship and see results—rather than constantly re-litigating priorities.

Following up on results is a simple, rare, high-leverage habit.

Most PMs define metrics; very few circle back weeks and months later with, “Here’s what happened.” Scheduling reminders to revisit metrics and sharing updates with stakeholders both accelerates your learning and builds a reputation that you never drop threads.

“When in doubt, it’s your job” — carry the water.

Great PMs willingly do the boring, ambiguous work—QA, support, sales calls, copywriting, implementation, project management—because they own outcomes, not artifacts. If you catch yourself thinking, “That’s not my job,” it’s usually exactly what you should do.

Real product strategy is a written logic chain from mission to roadmap.

Maggie’s approach: document company and team mission, market and competitive landscape, current business/product state, tech constraints, opportunities, challenges, and then propose a small set of bets and a plan. The goal is to show exactly how you got from context to choices, not just present a list of projects.

Over-celebrating being “data-driven” can mask weak product thinking.

Teams that fetishize dashboards often underinvest in qualitative research and judgment, trying to manage everything by metrics. For most products, talking to 10 users will generate better insight than another dashboard; quantitative data tells you what is happening, not why.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

If you ever find yourself saying, 'That's not my job,' that's probably a thing you should do.

Maggie Crowley

You do a strategy, but it's 5% of the work. The person with a good strategy who ships less will lose to the PM who ships more and creates impact.

Maggie Crowley

You’re often the emotional center of the team. It’s your job to keep people motivated, excited, and bought in—and to keep that optimism going.

Maggie Crowley

People who are really excited about being ‘data-driven’—to me, that is oftentimes a red flag for their product thinking.

Maggie Crowley

You’re not a good PM if you haven’t shipped something that’s really shitty.

Maggie Crowley

Core behaviors that distinguish truly great product managersPractical techniques for simplification, prioritization, and focusFollowing up on results and building an aura of reliability“Carrying the water”: doing unglamorous but essential PM workA concrete template for writing product strategy and one-pagersRealistic PM career progression, breaking into product, and promotionsRisks of over-indexing on data and product content frameworks

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