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The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher)

Madhavan Ramanujam is a senior partner at Simon-Kucher, where he works with tier-one tech companies like Uber, Asana, and LinkedIn to help them develop their pricing and monetization strategies. He’s also the author of the most widely read book on pricing strategy, Monetizing Innovation. In today’s podcast, we talk about all the elements that go into your pricing strategy. Madhavan gives real-life examples of having conversations about “willingness to pay,” how segmentation should impact your pricing, and when to start thinking about pricing. He also shares tips on how behavioral pricing impacts your thinking, how to restructure your pricing during a downturn, and much more. — Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan — Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting this podcast: • Lemon.io—a marketplace of vetted software developers. Get your match within 48h: https://lemon.io/lenny • Mixpanel—product analytics that everyone can trust, use, and afford: https://mixpanel.com/startups • Miro—a collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life: https://miro.com/lenny — Where to find Madhavan Ramanujam: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/madhavansf • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madhavan-ramanujam-1533063/ • Website: https://www.simon-kucher.com/en-us/leadership — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — Referenced: • Monetizing Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867 • It’s Price Before Product. Period: https://review.firstround.com/its-price-before-product-period • Rahul Vohra on NFX podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCiMqVC6Dok • Leaders, Killers, and Fillers framework: https://kevinacohn.medium.com/leaders-fillers-and-killers-creating-bundles-that-work-7f4c7329cf53 • Predictably Irrational: https://www.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational-Revised-Expanded-Decisions/dp/0061353248 • Preorder Unlocking Growth: https://www.amazon.com/Maximize-Profits-Prices-Products-Services/dp/1119633060 • Confessions of the Pricing Man: https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Pricing-Man-Affects-Everything/dp/B08TZPRKVY • Simon-Kucher books: https://www.simon-kucher.com/en-us/resources/books • Mastering SaaS pricing (Kyle Poyar): https://www.saas-knowledge-base.com/docs/mastering-saas-pricing-from-mvp-to-ipo • 6 Must-Reads on Pricing a Product: https://review.firstround.com/our-6-must-reads-on-pricing-a-product — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Madhavan’s background (06:29) How Madhavan got into pricing and monetization (08:02 ) Why he wrote Monetizing Innovation (09:43) Why pricing is a cross-functional discipline, but ultimately a function of product (11:27) What “willingness to pay” is, and why founders need to have conversations about it early and often (15:23) How Porsche built their SUV around customer feedback and willingness to pay (18:46) How testing helped a marketplace company avoid building something customers don’t value (23:50) Several methods to use to learn willingness to pay (33:38) When and how the willingness-to-pay conversations happen (37:08) How many customers you should be talking to (38:13) When to revisit pricing (39:20) Segmentation strategies (42:42) Why you need to act differently to your segments that have different needs (44:33) When to think about segmentation (47:49) Examples of segmentation done well (52:24) The importance of dynamic segmentation (53:19) The three pricing strategies: maximizing, penetrating, and skimming (55:49) How to use bundling and packaging to unlock segmentation (59:50) Why how you charge is more important than how much (1:03:30) Subscription vs. usage  (1:07:40) Pricing options and structures (1:10:22) How to run tests to see which pricing model works best (1:12:06) Focusing on benefits vs. features (1:16:13) What behavioral pricing is and why it’s important (1:20:54) Tactics for behavioral pricing (1:26:33) Determining pricing thresholds  (1:28:23) Tips for pricing in a depressed market (1:32:50) Madhavan’s new book — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Madhavan RamanujamguestLenny Rachitskyhost
Dec 7, 20221h 38mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Price Before Product: Designing Offerings Around Willingness To Pay

  1. Madhavan Ramanujam argues that pricing is a measure of value, not just a number, and that companies should seek product–market–pricing fit, not just product–market fit. He urges founders and product teams to test willingness to pay very early and use those insights to prioritize roadmaps, define segments, and design packaging. The conversation covers how to actually run willingness-to-pay research, why real segmentation must be needs- and value-based, and why "how you charge" (pricing model) often matters more than "how much you charge." They also explore behavioral pricing tactics, how to adapt pricing in downturns, and a preview of Madhavan’s upcoming book on profitable growth.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Test willingness to pay early and often, not right before launch.

Treat price as a measure of value and include it in every product validation conversation; ask prospects not just if they like an idea, but if they’d pay for it and why. This lets you pivot features, positioning, and even the product concept long before you sink years into the wrong thing.

You cannot prioritize a roadmap without willingness-to-pay data.

Across hundreds of companies, roughly 20% of features drive 80% of willingness to pay. Use WTP methods (e.g., “acceptable/expensive/prohibitively expensive” prices, most/least important features, purchase probability scales) to identify and double down on the few capabilities customers truly value and will fund.

Segment by needs and value, then productize for segments.

Real segmentation is not demographics or personas; it’s grouping customers by what they need, what they value, and what they’ll pay for, then building distinct offerings for those groups. One-size-fits-all usually becomes one-size-fits-none; instead, design different packages (like Porsche Cayenne trims, iPhone tiers, Uber car types) for distinct segments.

Packaging and bundling unlock monetization; don’t give the farm away.

Use the leaders–fillers–killers framework: leaders are must-haves, fillers are nice-to-have bundle components, killers are items that ruin perceived value if forced into the bundle and should be add-ons. Structure good/better/best plans so the entry tier is not overstuffed, the middle tier is the natural compromise, and high-end/deco y tiers frame value.

How you charge often matters more than how much you charge.

Pick a pricing model (subscription, usage-based, hybrid, platform + consumption, marketplace rake + platform fee) that aligns with how customers experience value, desire predictability, and perceive fairness. Examples like Michelin (per-mile tires) and Segment (monthly tracked users vs APIs) show that changing the metric can unlock adoption and revenue without changing the underlying product.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Price is a measure of value, just like a liter is a measure of volume.

Madhavan Ramanujam

It’s not just about product–market fit; it’s about product–market–pricing fit.

Madhavan Ramanujam

You cannot prioritize a product roadmap without having a willingness-to-pay conversation.

Madhavan Ramanujam

One size fits all usually means one size fits none.

Madhavan Ramanujam

How you charge is way more important than how much you charge.

Madhavan Ramanujam

Willingness to pay and product–market–pricing fitDesigning products around price (“price before product”)Segmentation based on needs, value, and willingness to payPackaging, bundling, and the leaders–fillers–killers frameworkChoosing the right pricing model (subscription vs usage vs hybrid)Communicating value: benefits vs featuresBehavioral pricing and psychological price thresholdsAdapting pricing and packaging in downturnsLand-and-expand and aligning acquisition, monetization, and retention

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