Bassem Youssef: Israel-Palestine, Gaza, Hamas, Middle East, Satire & Fame | Lex Fridman Podcast #424

Bassem Youssef 0:00 If I hate you, that's great, but if I have a story to support that hate, ah, that's even better.

Lex Fridman 0:04 Uh, one of your favorite words, "jihad." (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 0:09 (laughs) That's my favorite hobbies.

Lex Fridman 0:10 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 0:10 It doesn't matter now who do you vote into power. They will not listen to you. They would listen to the people who paid them to be there. When the military came in, people were walking to me, like pointing their fingers, like, "Don't speak about Sisi. Don't speak about the army. Huh? We love you now, but don't..." They would like that. So I called Jon Stewart just like, "I don't know what to do." And he said the most interesting thing ever and said, "If you're afraid of something, make fun about the fact that you're afraid of it."

Lex Fridman 0:43 The following is a conversation with Bassem Youssef, a legendary Egyptian-American comedian, the so-called Jon Stewart of the Middle East, who fearlessly satirized those in power, even when his job and life were on the line. Bassem is a beautiful human being. It was truly a pleasure for me to get to know him and to have this fun, fascinating, and challenging conversation. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description, and now, dear friends, here's Bassem Youssef.

Lex Fridman 1:21 Your wife is half Palestinian, and I've heard you say that you've been trying to kill her.

Bassem Youssef 1:26 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:26 But she keeps using the kids as human shields.

Bassem Youssef 1:28 Yes.

Lex Fridman 1:28 So have you considered negotiating a ceasefire?

Bassem Youssef 1:31 Well, the thing is every day, every minute of the day in a married life is a negotiation. Everything can blow up into a full-scale war, starting from a simple sentence like, "Good morning, what should we do with the kids today?"

Lex Fridman 1:47 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:47 "What should we do with that piece of furniture?" Any sentence can lead you to heaven or to hell in the same time.

Lex Fridman 1:54 So you do negotiate with terrorists?

Bassem Youssef 1:56 Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%.

Lex Fridman 1:56 You must.

Bassem Youssef 1:57 Yeah. And for her, I am her terrorist too, so (laughs) it's equal. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 2:00 (laughs) Terrorists on both sides. On a more serious note, when you found out about the attacks of October 7th, what went through your mind?

Bassem Youssef 2:08 If I'm allowed to use a curse word-

Lex Fridman 2:10 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 2:10 ... I was like-

Lex Fridman 2:11 As many as possible.

Bassem Youssef 2:12 ... I was like, "Oh, shit." Part of my standup comedy is I describe a situation where I was in a restaurant with producers, and there was a bombing two blocks away in Chelsea, New York, in 2000, 2016. And of course, this is the like, "Damn, what's gonna happen to us now?"

Lex Fridman 2:30 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 2:31 And, and, and there's like two different reactions. There's like the white reaction, which is like, "Oh my God, I hope nobody is hurt. This is terrible. I hope everybody's okay." And there's the Arab reaction, "What's his name? What is his name? What is the name?" You know, because you know what's gonna g- come. It's kinda got, it's... I was scared what's gonna really happen in that area, and it's like, "Oh my God, it's gonna be horrible." And the way that it was reported, I, I didn't know how to handle this. So I basically, I went into hiding for a few days, three or four days, and I talked about Piers Morgan, uh, team talking to me two times, three times. I was like, "No, I can't. How can I even defend that? How can you defend the rape, the decapitated babies, and whatever?" And then I started kind of looking in the news a little bit, and then I started seeing people coming on the shows and saying things that I know as an Arab, as a Muslim, as someone from that region, that it's not true. But I didn't know how to s- how, what to say, how to say it. So I said, by the third time when they asked me, I said like, "Fine, put me on." And I went there. It was more of a (laughs) , figuratively speaking, a suicide mission. And (laughs) ...

Lex Fridman 3:41 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 3:41 ... uh, because it's a lose-lose situation. I can, I can lose stuff in Hollywood. I can... I even, I remember my manager was like, "Bassem, be careful. I mean, are you sure you wanna do it? Are you..." My manager just was like, "Please don't do it. Please don't do it." And on the other side, if I don't perform well, whatever well means, I'm gonna be rejected by my own people. So it's a l- it was a lose-lose situation because whatever I say, it will never be enough, and whatever I say will not be good enough. And, uh, I was going into there, and I, I felt that I was going into a trance for the 33 minutes that I was on the, on that interview for the first time.

Lex Fridman 4:20 You blacked out.

Bassem Youssef 4:21 I blacked out. I blacked out. And a lot of people ask me, "Is... The earpiece, was that a bit when the earpiece kept falling?" It's like, "No, it was really falling off, and it disconnected, and I had to save it because I cannot see them. All I can hear, uh, uh, I can just hear them, and I could expecting at any time, 'Okay, Bassem, thank you.'" I was like, I, I, I was fighting for every second-

Lex Fridman 4:43 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 4:43 ... to say words to put stuff in there.

Lex Fridman 4:44 Yeah, for people who don't know, this is your, uh, conversation interview with Piers Morgan.

Bassem Youssef 4:49 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 4:50 And you couldn't see.

Bassem Youssef 4:51 I couldn't see. I was just like, "The lens of the camera," and I was just like...

Lex Fridman 4:54 It's like a surreal dream or nightmare.

Bassem Youssef 4:56 Yeah, "Hello, Bassem."

Lex Fridman 4:57 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 4:57 I was like, "Hello, Bassem." He's like, "Hi." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 4:59 And it, and it could end at any moment, your career and everything.

Bassem Youssef 5:02 Everything, yeah, yeah.

Lex Fridman 5:04 So what was the drive that got you to actually do it, to overcome that fear?

Bassem Youssef 5:10 Multiple things. First of all, I don't wanna say it's just my wife's family because my wife's family has always been there, but this time was different. The, the, the bombing, the attack, they, they usually one of those people that they're away from everything. Whenever, whatever happened in Gaza, they are always in safe places. But this time, it seems that there was no place safe. And already we heard about like two or three of the, of the cousins and the, uh, uncles already lost their homes. So this was too much. So I, I, I wanted to say something for those people because I know that... You know, I made f- I made... One of the jokes that I made about like, "Oh, you know, it's Hasan, her cousin, he's a loser. He's a doctor. He's a doctor, and he... Every time a, a, a hospital was bombed, we were worried about him." So I wanted to say that because I felt that these are... This is a family that I have never seen in my life.... I have never, she, she actually hardly saw an uncle or two because, you know, they cannot leave. But I- I said, like, "I need to speak, at least I do something for those extended family that I have never known." But also because when, when Piers Morgan team called me a couple of times and said, "Okay, let's- let's see what's going on in the show." And I just watched the stuff, and the lies, and the one-sided reporting, that made my blood boil. And then I thought, like, "What, why am I, what am I afraid of? I'm afraid of if I say something, I can lose my career." It's like, wait a minute, but that was the reason why I left Egypt. I said, "Wait, I left Egypt, I came to United States, I came to the land of the free where I can say anything I want, and yet I have limitation of what to say?" I mean, I thought we left that shit behind. I mean, what's happening? And I understand, I understand the connection of, of, like, how sensitive it is when you sp- you speak about Israel. And all of the ready-made accusations. But as a, as an Arab, as a Muslim, I don't react the same when you talk about Saudi Arabia or Iran or Egypt or any of them. It's like, hey, you want, you wanna dis some of these countries? I'll- I'll do that with you, because I have strong opinions about what happened, and I already been expressing them. But when I talk about... that's why when I, when I spea- and, and there's a lot of Jewish people who come to my show, and they understand that, they understand the- the- the separation. But that kind of a grouping of blackmailing people and saying and not saying what they have in their mind, it is... that kind of like one of the things that kind of like push- pushed me to go on the show.

Lex Fridman 7:40 The thing that was bothering you, was it what was being said or how it was being said?

Bassem Youssef 7:46 Both. Because there are lies, which is usually in the media, but there was the total disregard of humanity. You talk a lot about, in your show, about human suffering. And I felt that here the human suffering was not equal. I felt... that's why I came up with this, like, what's the exchange rate today? What's the exchange rate today? There's, there's... of course, it's terrible to see anybody die, but, but, but I feel that, like, is it, isn't our life not worth anything?

Lex Fridman 8:20 Yeah, you had a chart, um...

Bassem Youssef 8:22 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 8:22 ... akin to crypto.

Bassem Youssef 8:24 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 8:24 From an invest- you analyze it from an investing perspective, of course, in the dark humor-

Bassem Youssef 8:28 What's the ROI on that? (laughs)

Lex Fridman 8:30 And, uh, you were saying that a certain year was a good year.

Bassem Youssef 8:34 Yeah, 2014.

Lex Fridman 8:35 2014 was a good year for inv- (laughs) investment purposes. And also to, to refer to the, to a family member that you called a loser.

Bassem Youssef 8:42 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 8:42 You were saying that, uh, you, you called him, had a conversation with him, and he keeps saying that he's not using anybody for human shields, and you called him a loser.

Bassem Youssef 8:50 (laughs) Yeah.

Lex Fridman 8:50 What are you? You can't even keep a job.

Bassem Youssef 8:51 A liar. He lied to us.

Lex Fridman 8:53 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 8:53 Because I have to believe.

Lex Fridman 8:54 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 8:54 But this is the one thing. It's like, it's also one of the things, like how it was said. It was stuff that I've been hearing... I'm, I don't know what, what turned on on my head. But it's stuff that I've been hearing all my life from the media. Israel warns civilians before bombing them. And that's okay. But that's not okay. Israel is trying to minimize the civilians but killing them anyway. And that's okay. But that's not okay. So it is kind of like the indoctrination that we've been hearing as if it is okay, and then suddenly, it's not.

Lex Fridman 9:27 Yeah, there's a kind of several layers of bullshit almost sometimes hiding the obvious horror of the situation with kind of politeness and all this kind of stuff. Just the basic value of human life. That said, it's a difficult situation.

Bassem Youssef 9:44 It is. It is.

Lex Fridman 9:45 What would you do if you were Israel? Bibi called you, Wasem, big fan, big fan of your comedy.

Bassem Youssef 9:50 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 9:51 Um, first of all, would you hang up right away or would you hear him out?

Bassem Youssef 9:54 No, I will definitely hear him out. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 9:55 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 9:56 Because, like, that was like, wait a minute, that's material, that's material.

Lex Fridman 9:59 That's material. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 10:00 That's material, man. (laughs) I was like, "So Netanyahu called me."

Lex Fridman 10:04 Go on. (laughs) Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 10:04 Uh, I was sitting with my family, just like I have on my phone, right? It's like, "Oh, Netanyahu." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 10:08 (laughs) Yeah, it just shows up that way. I mean, what would you do? What would you do in this situation?

Bassem Youssef 10:13 To answer this question, we need to understand how Israel thinks. There is an incredible speech given by Gideon Levy, uh, the famous Israeli reporter in Ha- Ha- Haaretz. And he describes a situation where he was in the West Bank and there was a checkpoint. And in that checkpoint, there was an ambulance with a Palestinian patient, and it was there sitting for an hour and a half not moving. And then he went to talk to the soldiers, like, "Guys, why are you not letting them go?" He's like, "Oh, let them go." He said, like... and then he told them, "Imagine if he's, was your father." And the soldier stood up, was like, "What? These are pigs. These are not humans." So when you tell me, what would you do if Israel would do, it really needs to... we need to ask how does Israel look at the Palestinian and view the Palestinians? Because they do look at them less than human. And there is an incredible talk, uh, by Mahor Meyer, he was a Holocaust survivor, and he said, "I learned in Auschwitz when I was there in the concentration camp that in order for a group of, a dominant group of people to dehumanize another group, they need first to dehumanize themselves." And Israel looks at Palestinians as lesser people, as lesser beings, as some people who are dispensable. And the way that they treat them is that they don't really care about like... that's why the, the exchange rate thing. So for me, if I am Israel, I, it will be like, what would you do if you're the United States in the time of the Native Americans? They were killing people with the millions. When you dehumanize a group of people, you really don't care. So if I (laughs) was Israel, I would do exactly what Israel is doing right now because there's no one is holding me accountable, there is no one stopping me, and I can get whatever I want throughout my history through violence.

Lex Fridman 12:08 I think a lot of the things you just said are...... a tiny bit slightly exaggerated. So let me, let me try. Let's-

Bassem Youssef 12:13 Please, please, please.

Lex Fridman 12:14 ... let's try. So not everybody in Israel.

Bassem Youssef 12:17 Of course not.

Lex Fridman 12:17 So let's, let's look at, um, several groups. So people in government, IDF soldiers, and citizens that are neither of those. And not everybody of any of those, uh, sees Palestinians as less than human, just some percentage. So what percentage is that in your sense?

Bassem Youssef 12:39 It's the people who have the power.

Lex Fridman 12:41 So it's mostly the focus of your commentary, when you say, "People in Israel," you really mean the people in power.

Bassem Youssef 12:47 The p- the people who have power.

Lex Fridman 12:48 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 12:48 But, but, but as much as, like, I... Of course I mean the people in power, because when I speak about Is... Even when I speak about America, I speak about people in power. When I speak about Egypt, I speak about the people who have power, because, like, I can't really talk about the 100 million people in Egypt or the 11 million people in Israel. Of course not. There are people who go in and they demonstrate against Netanyahu and they want him out of the government. But we have to admit that the Israeli society in, as a whole, have moved quite a bit to the right, and has been, has been like many extreme... And you know what happens when you go to the right or you go to the most extreme, the other person go to the most extreme. And e- extremism breeds extremism. So thank you for the clarification, but, like, I really meant with the people of power. When people criticize the United States for going in Iraq, of course I'm not criticizing citizens.

Lex Fridman 13:32 But you made another point, which is an interesting point, and it's very difficult to see in the heart of people. But I wonder if you look at the average Palestinian and the average Israeli, and when they look at the other, do they have some hate in their heart? Well, everybody probably has some. What is that amount? You know, when you look at a person that looks different than you, how much hate is there?

Bassem Youssef 13:57 It depends on what is the living situation of each person. So in the Berlin Film Festival, just like a few... couple of weeks ago, there was an Israeli and a Palestinian receiving an award together. And the Israeli director said, "We're gonna go back to Israel. He's gonna go to the West Bank. He will have no rights, and I will have full living rights." These people managed to work together and be friends, and they have empathy to each other. Now, the average Palestinian, it's a very difficult question because is it the Palestinian in the diaspora or the Palestinian in Gaza or the diaspora in the West Bank or the one in... the citizen who... as a citizen of Israel who still have less right than a normal citizen of Israel, a Jew? And it really depends. If I am... There are people in... A- Arabs in Israel who are having a great life, and there are people, Arabs, who are having a, a, a miserable life, but definitely people that living in Gaza or in the West Bank is kind of like on the lower tier of the living conditions. Now, let's talk about the hate. What does that Palestinian see

Narrator 15:03 (instrumental music)

Bassem Youssef 15:04 ... from the Israeli? The Palestinian see oppression, limitation of movement, limitation of freedom. They have... Uh, and then when there's something happens, you see the full force coming in, destroying their home, taking away members of his family. There would be absolutely no reason for him to love the other. The Israeli, because he, you know... he doesn't have the power, but he lives under his government. All he sees is the rockets or whatever, but, like, he sees the reaction, and he doesn't see what happened to those whom... And as humans, we are selfish. We see what really affects us as humans. And I cannot even imagine what it would be like to live as a Palestinian. And I'm, I'm not even talk about Gaza, because everybody talks about Gaza. But let me give you an example. And I'm not gonna talk about the 12,000 kids killed in Gaza. Let's talk about just, like, the four weeks in the West Bank. March 4th, Amro Najjar, age 10, sitting next to his father, shot in a c- while, while he's sitting in a car next to his father by the IDF soldiers. Mohammed Ziad, 13 years old, March 3rd, shot in front of a UN school while sitting with his friends. Mohammed Ghanim, age 15, March 2nd, he's shot while standing in front of a storefront during a night raid. February 23rd, Saeed Jarhdal, he was killed by a drone fire. February 22nd, Fadi Suleiman killed while standing in front of a top of a Red Cross building. Uh, Nihal, Nihal Ziad, Fe- February 14th, Valentine's Day, killed or shot in the head while leaving school. February 11th, Mohammed Khattur, US citizens, killed while being in a parked car. And Muath Shams, February 9th, killed right in front of his home because a military car came reversing back to him, and then somebody opened the door, shot him, and leave. This is a daily life of people in the West Bank.

Lex Fridman 17:07 What is the, the justification the IDF provides?

Bassem Youssef 17:11 Terrorism.

Lex Fridman 17:13 Terrorism?

Bassem Youssef 17:14 Or... I don't know. I mean, they... You cannot really say, like, human shields. But they would say, like, "They were throwing rocks." There was a guy who went on Chris Rock, and he said, like, "His son, a US citizen, was killed." And it's like, "They were throwing rocks, so we killed them." Even when they were throwing rocks, you kill him? But the thing is... You see, this is how easy for them to get rid of Palestinians. I mean, I love... Like, I, I was... I have to say, I prepared a little bit for the podcast because you are in tech. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 17:40 (laughs) Uh-oh.

Bassem Youssef 17:41 So... And I, I am ignorant-

Lex Fridman 17:42 Uh-oh.

Bassem Youssef 17:42 ... in tech. There is a movie called The Lab. It is, uh, directed by an Israeli, uh, director called Yotam Feldman, and he talks about how the, the military, uh, uh, industry in Israel is very advanced. And what is really mind-boggling is, in that movie, he shows how the military tests its weapons in the field in urban areas on Palestinians. It, it, it, it is, it is heartbreaking. You know, as a doctor, there's five stages of trials. There is, like... Uh, there is discovery, pre-clinical, clinical-... and then, uh, uh, mar- market and then post-market evaluation by the FDA. The FDA evalu- uh, approval, and then the FDA post-market. Five, just to take a pill. And you go in, and, and he interviews people as like, "Where did you test this?" (laughs) Uh, they test it in the field. So when w- when you just like, when human life is so, is so cheap, and it is so indispensable, it made me, it gave me a visceral rea- reaction. Because y- you know, we as hu- this has been actually the, the, the state of humanity. Humanity have li- lived and l- thr- su- survived the thrive by actually killing each other. But there was kind of like a, we were remotely remo- we are removed from it. People in Greece didn't know what the Agli- Alexander the Great was doing. He was killing and pillaging, and like we call him the Great because but he was killing. He was, he was conquering. He was invading. Julius Caesar, all of the greats, he was doing. But killing was difficult. Killing had to have some sort... You have to be with your enemy then you go back, catapults, then cannons, then a little bit back for... And then you're kind of like something remotely. Now, you're killing people behind a screen with a button, with a push of a button, you know? A lot of people say, "Terrorism." They killed you with a knife, killed one person with a knife, shot you. That's terrorism. But if you fly a 64 million dollar F-16, and you drop up in it an A-84 bomb that cost $16,000, that's not terrorism because it's remote, you're behind a screen. So what happened? What Israel is doing? It is removing... Selfish. L- like America too, drones. Can... And then when you push someone to be in, to... They always brag about bombing them to the Stone Ages. What happens when the screens and the, all of the obstacles that you have been put between you and those people that you have treated them this way, when this is a breach and you come face to face, you will come face to face with what you have created.

Lex Fridman 20:17 Yeah, there's a lotta interesting things you just said. So one is the methodology of killing. If you wanna look at some horrific large scale killing, people often talk about the Holocaust, but that's visceral. You can look at Holodomor by Stalin where the murder is through starvation.

Bassem Youssef 20:36 By, by w- by Churchill in India.

Lex Fridman 20:39 In Churchill in India. Ugh. And the Great Leap Forward...

Bassem Youssef 20:44 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 20:44 ... by Mao.

Bassem Youssef 20:45 Yep.

Lex Fridman 20:46 So starvation is a thing we don't often think of it as murder because it's quiet, it's slow. And the interesting thing about starvation is that the people don't complain as they're dying-

Bassem Youssef 20:59 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 20:59 ... because they're exhausted.

Bassem Youssef 21:01 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 21:02 That's one, and the other is the value of human life. It does seem that every culture has a unequal valuation of human life.

Bassem Youssef 21:13 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 21:14 So those two things combined create a complicated, um, military landscape of the world.

Bassem Youssef 21:22 Yes. But the thing is, is that how we look at technology as the savior, as we talk about how AI disrupt, will disrupt, will disrupt, will disrupt. And now, if you go, you talk about like going to the West Bank, the people in the West Bank walk, and they don't see humans. They see people shouting them from towers or behind the screens or doing... And they have like biometrics that is developed by Basel system, like that's done by HP or, or Google and Amazon who are like part of Project Nimbus. And, and you see Indivision developing all of this like metric and surveillance and all of that stuff, and then you have like something like the gospel that like people have actually said that like the gospel can actually create a target list using AI and give you a green, yellow, or a red to go, "Oh, go ahead." And now, AI is not just disrupting the market. It's disrupting our humanity. And it is... We became so comfortable killing people from afar, killing people with a push of the button. And now, it is, it is like... (laughs) It's like dating apps, you know, when you, when you swipe left and l- right? You know, it's like, oh, right? It's, it's, it becomes so like cheap. It's not like meeting someone. It's like, oh, la, la, lah. It's like a lot of fish in the sea. Same with AI. Boom, 500 people killed. Boom, they killed. It's so easy. It's so easy. It's so easy, and then it's so far removed from you. So when you put these people in this condition, you have literally put them in a different universe than yours. You are behind in your air conditioned screens, like pushing them, blowing up a univ- uh, uh, a university. It's amazing. But then you meet the, th- what you have done, that you meet the Frankenstein that you have created. And then people is like, "Oh, look what they did to us."

Lex Fridman 23:07 You just gave me this image of a, uh, a dating app from hell.

Bassem Youssef 23:11 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 23:12 W- where leaders are just sitting there and kinda swiping left and right.

Bassem Youssef 23:15 Swiping left. Invade.

Lex Fridman 23:16 Yeah, right.

Bassem Youssef 23:16 Or destroy.

Lex Fridman 23:18 (laughs) Just bored laying in bed.

Bassem Youssef 23:19 Like a puppet government. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 23:21 Yeah, and then turn off the phone, go to sleep.

Bassem Youssef 23:23 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 23:24 Uh, so I got... You know, I traveled to the West Bank, and I mentioned to you offline that I really l- loved the people there, just, um... You know, I've met a bunch of people like that in, in Eastern Europe where I grew up. Uh, yeah, like the flamboyant, the big personalities, all of that. Uh, I also met, uh, a person who's in charge of a refugee camp who was shopping IDF soldier and, um, I'm not sure the words he said are important as the consequences of the thing that you mentioned, which is the deep hate in his eyes.

Bassem Youssef 24:04 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 24:05 That was... Didn't feel repairable at all. It was pain. It was like a foundation of pain, and then on top of that, a hatred. And I was like, "Wow, this is what... You kill, you kill one person, that's the way you create."

Bassem Youssef 24:19 Mm-hmm.... because we have kind of like a front row seat to what's happening. We, we think we're in it, but we d- can't really grasp it. I mean, people are always going to go in, get Ha- Hamas out, and we're going to get them back in.

Lex Fridman 24:34 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 24:34 And what happens when the people get back in? How do you think they would look at you? What have you created? What have you done? My show in Egypt was all about propaganda. It was all about the use of words. Words are very important. The decapitated babies were not chosen randomly, because, you see, it, it plants a certain image in your brain. Imagine if we're going in, "What a baby can do, it can smile, cry and poop, that's it. Is absolutely no threat." So when you tell people, "Forty decapitated babies, they are so animalistic, they didn't see the babies. Women raped." Of course, he's unable to do that, and they would go through that, and they would... What was very frustrating about the conversation is the gish galloping, the gish galloping, throwing... You see the distractions? You see what happens? Like, it's like, "What's the proportionate response? Can Israel defend itself? Do you condemn Hamas? Does Israel has the right to exist? Decapitated babies, raped women. Why don't the Arab countries take them? Why don't the Muslim... Muslims kill Muslims. Look what happened in Yemen, in Syria, in Iraq." Like, see, see how they kind of distract you with... They throw little things at you, so you don't know what to do. Oh, the UNRWA, the UNN, antisemitic, October 7th, October 7th, October 7th, and then suddenly, you are distracted and pulled into discussing all of these little things, and you're not discussing what's happening right now. It is basically stalling, giving them time to do what they do.

Lex Fridman 26:06 So there is a... There's some degree to the propaganda, the... so the beheaded babies and all this kind of stuff, that is so over the top that it shuts down actual conversation about actual wrongs, war crimes on both sides.

Bassem Youssef 26:22 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 26:23 So it's overstating it to where everyone a- on social media and everywhere in the press and everywhere is arguing, almost become desensitized to actual horrors of death-

Bassem Youssef 26:32 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 26:32 ... which are more mundane. They're not so dramatic as beheaded babies.

Bassem Youssef 26:35 Yeah, because people, pe- a baby shot, but decapitated babies? There's like a knife blade that goes into the skin, the trachea, the flesh, the spine. Decapitated, like how... So you can just like, he's dead. No, you go in, this is the hate, there's so much hate, and you know, that's why-

Lex Fridman 26:51 You have made me laugh-

Bassem Youssef 26:53 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 26:54 ... at, at, at, at, at-

Bassem Youssef 26:55 ... talking about decapitated. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 26:56 ... the darkest shit. You're such a beautiful person. Your dark humor is just wonderful.

Bassem Youssef 27:01 But, but you see, this happened to Jews before.

Lex Fridman 27:03 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 27:03 Remember blood libel? Where did the blood libel come from?

Lex Fridman 27:06 Yeah. Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 27:06 It come from these rumors that Jews suck babies' blood. This is what they did to them.

Lex Fridman 27:11 Yep, that's what's in the cup.

Bassem Youssef 27:12 Exa- (laughs)

Lex Fridman 27:14 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 27:14 That's a very delicious baby cup.

Lex Fridman 27:15 Delicious baby blood.

Bassem Youssef 27:16 But, but this is what you do. You, you tell people something, and it happened with the Native Americans when they were here, th- when, when they went in, and they wipe a whole tribe. So... And, and, and, and, and Jewish people are one of the, like the minorities that were persecuted and had this used against them for a very long time. And it is terrible, and it's terrifying that's been used again.

Lex Fridman 27:35 So I, I just did a very lengthy debate on Israel and Palestine.

Bassem Youssef 27:39 Hmm.

Lex Fridman 27:40 And the really painful thing from that, those two historians, it was, it was deep, it was thorough, it was fascinating. But in constantly asking about sources of hope or solutions, there was none. There was a, there was a sense of, like a really dark sense of, it's hopeless, from both sides, it's hopeless. Uh, so, you know, I look to you. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 28:10 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 28:10 For-

Bassem Youssef 28:11 Incredible choice.

Lex Fridman 28:11 ... for a source of hope. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 28:14 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 28:14 For a source of hope. Do you have... Is, is there any hope here? Solutions, short term, long term?

Bassem Youssef 28:22 Obama have kind of summarized this beautifully in his book. He said the reason why the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is so chronic is one side have so much power, and the other side have absolutely no power. And that's what Obama said. He said, like, "You have Israel that fa- basically don't listen to us, because they are supported by people who are bigger than the president, bigger than the administration. They know that they can." I mean, like you, Oba- uh, like Netanyahu was on tape many times saying like, he's basically like belittling Americans, like, "Uh, we, we control 80% of the population. We don't care." They a- this has kind of like nonchalant kind of like, "Uh, we, we have them." And there's nothing really that compels Israel to give up anything, because at the end of the day, what is compromise? Compromise is like I give something, you give something. Israel is not giving anything. And they project that on you. So for example, how many times have we heard like, "Oh, Palestinians were given like four, five, six, seven, 15 chances, and they said no to them"? And yet, when you l- read the history, that's not the case at all. Like for example, in two thou- the whole idea about like Arafat walked away from Oslo, that didn't happen. And there is an incredible (smacks lips) video by, you know, uh, what's his name, Joe Scar- Scarborough, with Misha. And they were hosting her father, uh, Brzezinski. He was the, uh, National Security Advisor. And Joe Scarborough said like, "Well, you know, like Arafat left the Oslo Accord, and the Palestinians have..." And then Brzezinski said like, "This is like embarrassingly shallow." It's like, listen, what happened was there was a lot of catches on the Oslo Accord. Al- it was very unfair to the Palestinians. So Arafat said like, "I agree, but I need to take it to the Arab capitals." And what... And to... And they went to ins- and they went to Sharm el-Sheikh. They came to Egypt. And he and Ehud Barak went to there, and then he had... Uh, Barak left because there was election and he lost it. Ariel Sharon came, and it was destroyed. This is one of the re- reason why people... It is, it's kind of like...... facts don't matter as much as what is the narrative that is being controlled.

Lex Fridman 30:32 But what, what were the biggest barriers to peace there? Do y- do you think it's fundamentally leaders don't want a two-state solution, or was there nuanced small differences that if solved could have led to a two-day- two-state solution?

Bassem Youssef 30:46 I mean, there was a... Maybe there was a certain point when the Israeli leaders were more open to compromise. But I can't say that because e- each time Israel gives back land, it has to be after some use of force. The- the 1973 war, the Intifada, the- the first and second, the- eh, the- the- the- the- the- the casualties in Gaza. They never give up land willingly and because of peace, because if I have that much military and can do whatever I want, why would I give up anything? I have that much power. Why would America or China give everything if they're so powerful? And especially if they are... Have this kind of open shit from the United States. So it is, it is really about what can push Israel to give up something? Because you are so much stronger than me, what could compel you to give up something? And this is why the whole thing about, like, e- trying to equalize Palestinians and the Israeli state and government, it doesn't make any sense.

Lex Fridman 31:49 So what-

Bassem Youssef 31:50 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 31:50 ... is the source of hope? You know, Jon Stewart, who we'll talk about from many angles, uh, somebody you admire, a friend.

Bassem Youssef 32:00 Hmm.

Lex Fridman 32:02 Uh, he proposed a two-state solution. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 32:05 Of course.

Lex Fridman 32:05 Look, look, look (laughs) ... Look to the comedians for hope.

Bassem Youssef 32:09 Yes. Well, everybody's talking about the two-state conclusion, but Israel has said many times, or Netanyahu and Bennett, like, "There, there's gonna be no state solutions." They, eh, in the past, it's like... Even, even Naftali Bennett, he came in on the... on, on Hard Talk as like, "Yeah, maybe in the past, we wanted two-state solutions, but like, look, every time we give them land, they kill us, so no state solutions." And they're openly saying it.

Lex Fridman 32:29 But that's perhaps rhetoric.

Bassem Youssef 32:31 Rhetoric that is supported by action. Because look at what they're doing in the w- the West Bank that you've said. They are cutting it, illegal settlement, mea- piecemealing it. So how... If y- if you have an intention at all to give them anything, why would you keep do- keep doing this?

Lex Fridman 32:48 And you've called it a bunch of little Gazas.

Bassem Youssef 32:51 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 32:51 It's a nice-

Bassem Youssef 32:52 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 32:52 ... little picture of what's happening.

Bassem Youssef 32:54 Yeah, yeah, they were piecemealing it, dum, dum, dum, because it is... What happened in the past four months, the Palestinians have been micro-dosing on it for a very long time, little by little, little by little. And we would shout every time when it g- gets too much, and then we s- shut down, and then little by little. But this time it was hard. It was hard to see the blatant f- oppression. And the world said, "Maybe the Hamas Ministry of Health are giving us the bad numbers. Maybe it's used as human shields." And I, I, I laugh. There's 13,000 babies killed. Does that mean that there are 13,000 military target hiding in their diapers? Because it is so... It doesn't make any sense to kill that many b- babies. It's like, "Oh, oops. It is out of our hands." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 33:45 It's hard to know what to do with those numbers. I mean, I... T- uh, just g- one baby is enough.

Bassem Youssef 33:51 But you know what happens when you hear so many numbers? Numbers become numbers, and you become so desensitized. And this is why there's a difference between saying, "13,000 Palestinian kids dead," just like Mila Cohen, an Israeli baby, 10-month-old, she was killed in her crib. And this is what we hear from CNN. We never hear a story about a Palestinian kid. That's why... Thank you for giving me the space for saying the news about the Palestinian chi- children that were killed just four weeks. Though, like, it's, it's... Because humans needs context. They need depth. They need like a 3D look at what they can look at. But if you just tell them numbers, ugh, they don't mean anything.

Lex Fridman 34:34 Is there some degree to where both leaderships, Hamas, PA, Palestinian Authority, Israel, all want war, like perpetual war to, to remain in power?

Bassem Youssef 34:48 There is... That's, that's an interesting, uh, question. But I mean, let's admit something. The Arab regimes in the, in the area have actually used the problem of Palestine in order to stay in power, in order to take... Getting excuses to like have this enemy. And Israel, the G- the Israeli government has used that too, and maybe the Palestinians. But my problem with... When going into discussion this, is that the, the two sides are not equal. They're not equal in power, they're not equal in influence, and they're not equal in international s- support, especially with the United States. So Palestinians can... I... The, the... People who have made changes in history were the people with power, the people who would have the ability to change things. And the Palestinians cannot really change anything. What, what can they change?

Lex Fridman 35:39 Well, is that true though-

Bassem Youssef 35:41 Okay.

Lex Fridman 35:41 ... with, uh, how much support the Palestinian people have? So y- just like you said, there's a lot of Arab states there, uh, that will voice their pro-Palestinian position in order to distract from their- the own corruption and abuses of power in their own countries. But, you know, I don't think, if you look globally, there's a complete asymmetry of power and public opinion here. Maybe in the press in the West, but if you look globally...

Bassem Youssef 36:12 But do they have the same kind of weapons that the Israeli have?

Lex Fridman 36:14 Literally power? No. There's a major asymmetry-

Bassem Youssef 36:18 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 36:18 ... of literal power.

Bassem Youssef 36:20 Some money to their leaders, does that make any difference? I mean, and also, when you say Palestinian Authority, which authority are you talking about? Hamas or the Palestinian Authority who has been kind of a domesticated, kind of like-

Lex Fridman 36:33 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 36:33 ... a- a puppy for the Palestinian... Who basically have been-

Lex Fridman 36:35 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 36:35 ... an informant for their own pe- on, on their own people? And this is the, the thing also that kind of like...... really pissed me off when I was hearing the thing about this, like Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, Hamas. Like we have Netanyahu on tape confessing that he supported Hamas, gave them money in order to cause factions in the, in, in between the Palestinians. So it's just like, it doesn't make... You just told me this.

Lex Fridman 36:57 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 36:57 You just told me this. You just told me Netanyahu supports Hamas. It's like, but Hamas, like what?

Lex Fridman 37:01 I mean, to which degree does Netanyahu represent the Israeli people, is a, is a, is a real question.

Bassem Youssef 37:08 To which point does Trump or Biden represent the American people?

Lex Fridman 37:12 And to which degree does Hamas represent the Palestinian people?

Bassem Youssef 37:15 It doesn't. The, none of these represent it, but who have the power in order to make the decisions? It really comes down to that.

Lex Fridman 37:23 Well, who does have the power? Are, are you... You're giving a lot of power to Israel.

Bassem Youssef 37:28 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 37:29 But the, the Arab League, the-

Bassem Youssef 37:31 What, what should Hamas do? What do you think would Hamas do?

Lex Fridman 37:33 Continue doing what the charter says, which is trying to destroy Israel.

Bassem Youssef 37:37 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 37:37 And the role of the Palestinian people is to overthrow Hamas and get a more moderate leadership probably.

Bassem Youssef 37:43 Mm.

Lex Fridman 37:43 And the role of the Israeli people is to vote out this right-wing government and elect a more moderate leader so that there's a chance at peace with two moderate leaders.

Bassem Youssef 37:56 So before Hamas even got to control 2006 Gaza, there was Ariel Sharon in 2000.

Lex Fridman 38:03 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 38:04 And we all know what happened. And Ariel Sharon kind of like had made the, ma- came up with this amazing policy of like breaking people's, uh, kids' bones in the Intifada. So E- Ehud Barak, he was also like... (laughs) I mean, wh- which one is moderate? I mean, I think it's... Hamas is a product of what happened. I mean, we can... Uh, if, if there was no apartheid in, in, in South Africa, there would be no NFC. There would be no Nelson Mandela. There would... If there were no Nazis in, in, in Paris, there would be no French Resistance.

Lex Fridman 38:34 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 38:34 And I'm not saying that... And then, and again, I'm not... I, I wouldn't, don't want to be in a, put in a position to defend Hamas or anybody because you know what c- that entails. But there are, th- those are... Like Hamas, again, not defending them. They went into October 7th. What was their... What, what they... Why, why did they did that? Like release our hostages, the people in prison. Because if you talk about people who are kidnapped, Israel kidnaps people every single day, and when they had that, the first exchange in November 4th, Israel released 400 people, three quarters of them were women and children. Why are those people in prison? There's one in four kids that are imprisoned that stay in solitary confinement, which is by international law a form of torture, and you're putting kids through that.

Lex Fridman 39:22 Is it possible... So first of all, ceasefire.

Bassem Youssef 39:25 Yes.

Lex Fridman 39:26 And longer term, is it possible for Arab states and the United States to get together, and with power, through diplomacy, enforce a solution?

Bassem Youssef 39:41 It's a very, very ideal solution. But you know and I know that Arab p- states don't really have the power. All of the powers are in the hands of America.

Lex Fridman 39:51 They have the power. See, I would... I think they have the power. I don't-

Bassem Youssef 39:54 Maybe they don't know when to use it. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 39:55 They, they don't want... Well, that's-

Bassem Youssef 39:57 Maybe they don't know... Maybe they don't know-

Lex Fridman 39:58 Because there's a benefit, like-

Bassem Youssef 39:59 Maybe there's a-

Lex Fridman 40:00 The dark, the dark sense I have is that a lot of people win from the suffering that Palestinians are going through, because they can point to that and distract from-

Bassem Youssef 40:14 Definitely, definitely.

Lex Fridman 40:15 ... corruption in their own states. And then obviously Iran can benefit also from the same kind of dynamic, uh, distracting from the, uh, the authoritarian nature of their regime.

Bassem Youssef 40:27 Definitely, but what is the core of the problem here? Is it the Arab states using the suffering or the actually the, the, the suffering itself? And the suffering comes from people being displaced. Their homes were taken away. There are seven million Palestinians in diaspora, seven millions. Seven million went out there and now they're living in Canada and America and Europe. They had homes there they cannot go back to. 1.7 million people of the people in Gaza don't belong in Gaza. They were pushed from other places. The, the piecemeal thing of people are being... You know, in, in Germany... I, I'm gonna shift gear a little bit. It's gonna be a little bit of fun. There is a, there is a book that I bought the rights to, and I want to turn it into a movie.

Lex Fridman 41:15 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 41:16 And I bought... I optioned the right for two month, for, for two years in March of last year, before October 7th.

Lex Fridman 41:22 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 41:22 After October 7th, I bought the permanent right.

Lex Fridman 41:25 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 41:26 That book is called The Muslim and the Jew, and it is written by an author called Ronen Steinke. I read an article about this book in 2016, and I chased that book for rights for seven years. I didn't have that much money, but I wanted that book. And that book was translated into English called Anna and Dr. Helmi, and that book tells the incredible story under Nazi Germany, where Arabs went in droves to Berlin in 1920s after the First World War in the Weimar Republic, and they became doctors and engineers and journalists bec- for two reasons. Number one, it was... They're cheap, very cheap, because of the inflation, and two, a lot of the Arab nationalists didn't want to send their kids to J- to England or France because they were the occupiers.

Lex Fridman 42:17 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 42:18 And Dr. Helmi was the hero of that. He's an Egyptian doctor, and that's why I kind of like, I personally kind of connected with him.

Lex Fridman 42:25 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 42:26 And he went to schoo- uh, medical school, didn't find a place to live, so he lived in the Jewish ghetto like many Arabs. He didn't find a school to work, a, a, a hospital to work in, so he worked in a Jewish hospital.So these are, there was a lot of virus who lived with the ghetto. And actually, the first director of the Berlin Mosque was a Jewish con- convert who converted to Islam, and he was a gay activist.

Lex Fridman 42:53 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 42:54 I'm telling you, this is like a crazy story.

Lex Fridman 42:56 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 42:56 And this is all, this is not a fiction story. This is not, this is actually like a non-fiction. It's written actually based on the statement, uh, documents of the Nazis and Gestapo. Dr. Helmy, he was in this hospital, and the Nazis came in, and they killed and tortured and beat up the Jewish doctor. And he made, they made him the head of his department. Then he was surrounded, now he's surrounded by Nazi doctor. They didn't touch him because he was an Arab. There was kind of like a thing between Germany and the Arabs, because they wanted to appease to them-

Lex Fridman 43:28 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 43:29 ... in order to have kind of a, a, a grassroot base in the Arab world where he want to go next.

Lex Fridman 43:37 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 43:38 And this is why 1934, 1935, the racial laws of Nuremberg, they had a name change. First, they were called anti-Semitic. Then they changed into anti-Jewish, because also Arabs were Semitic.

Lex Fridman 43:52 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 43:52 So they wanted to appease the Arabs. Now, what happened to Dr. Helmy when that happened to him? He would go back to the ghetto, and he would see the apartments next to him, the Jewish apartment, become more and more and more flooded with people, because they were moving Jews and pushing them and putting them together.

Lex Fridman 44:14 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 44:14 Pushing them to the side. And each ha- each plat- each flat, each apartment, instead of one family, it would have three, four, six, seven families. And he was there, going at home, and he looked. He was, he was there, this is where the people he grew up with, uh, he, he, he lived with, and now he's seeing that kind of discrimination just because he was an Arab. And then he, he started to kind of like atone for, like because he felt responsible because he wasn't treated the same way, and he started to go and treat Jewish people in their homes because they couldn't go to hospitals. And then one family gave them his daughter. It's like, "This is Anna, save her." He took her, pretended that she's his niece, put a hijab around her, taught her Arabic, called her Nadia, my daug- my daughter's name, by the way.

Lex Fridman 45:03 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 45:03 And they, and, and he hid her in plain sight for seven years in front of the Nazis as his nurse. It's an incredible story. And then not just that he went to prison, and then he went out, and he formed with the Arab people that was in prison with him a network that saves 300 Jews. See that kind of story?

Lex Fridman 45:22 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 45:22 This is the Jews that were living in the Arab world. I'm not saying that the Jews living in the Arab world was living like an incredible life. Of course, as like kind of a minority, they did not have like the full power or the full, you know, advantages of the rule. That's, that's normal. But we had this kind of a, a relationship before Israel was er- er- erected in 1948. And then, of course, everybody looked at Jews at the time, uh, at that time as fifth column. And of course, the nationalistic regimes used that. And this is why what Biden said was very dangerous when he said, "If there is no Israel, no Jew in the world would feel safe." You are the leader of the free world. You are the president of the United States. Do you mean that you're telling me that the Jews in your country, in the United States of America, are not safe? That is wrong on two levels. Number one, America historically and right now is more safe to Jews in America- in, in the world than more than anybody. They are safer than the Jews in Israel. They never had pogroms or, or the Holocaust like Europe. They live here a good life. Not perfect life, but they are better. Second of all, if you're the president and you're telling that a group of people will not feel safe unless there is a diff- different one, you are already feeding into their fifth column. They're like, "You're Russian, you come from there." And there is a group of laws in the Russian constitution that says that Russia will protect its citizens everywhere in the world. What happens if the president says like, "Oh, you're Russians, you're protected by home country. You don't belong here." This is terrible.

Lex Fridman 46:52 Yeah, you're right, that's actually an indirect threat. It's like-

Bassem Youssef 46:54 Yes.

Lex Fridman 46:55 ... uh, you know, even saying Muslims cannot feel safe in America or something like this. That, that means like a, that's a threat.

Bassem Youssef 47:03 But what, what would a Jewish person in Beverly Hills or in, in, in, in Brooklyn feel if he hears that? You are already telling people you need to ha- be loyal to Israel. I mean, Israel is a foreign country. I am sorry, but Israel is a foreign country. Israel is a client country that we sponsor, and it is, should actually be responsible and held accountable for what they do.

Lex Fridman 47:28 You mentioned 1948, the Nakba. But before that, '41, '39, '41 to '45, the Holocaust.

Bassem Youssef 47:36 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 47:37 What do you do? What do you do with the Holocaust? Like what, um, how do you incorporate into the calculus-

Bassem Youssef 47:44 Oh, yeah.

Lex Fridman 47:44 ... of what's-

Bassem Youssef 47:46 Oh, it's terrible. I mean-

Lex Fridman 47:46 ... of morality that, that leads up to the displacement of s- 700,000, uh, Palestinians from the land? How do you work that out?

Bassem Youssef 47:56 Well, I, I think it's terrible. But like, I mean, what the, the, the systemic annihilation of Jewish people under the Nazi, that is like an, uh, uh, like a carefully engineered, thoughtful plan. It was terrible. It was like kind of like the human ingenuity put into like something that is very evil. But also, it is not just, not just that happened. We need, we need to remember that Otto Frank, the father of Anne Frank, has his visa, refugee visa rejected by the United States. There's a lot of people that were rejected by the United States, rejected by other European countries, and then they were pushed into Palestine. So you have to put yourself between like... And that the Arabs were, "Okay, we're sitting here. Okay, come, and then, all right, you don't have a, a, a home or a country anymore." That, that, that, that, that, that kills you. I mean, you see, if I'm not an Arab-... and you give me that kind of piece of, like, terrible human tragedy like, "Oh my God, that is terrible." But then I'm an Arab, it's like, "Yes, I'm so sorry, but what do I have to do with that? What? Why is that my fault?" The, the persecution of the Jewish people have started since the eighth and ninth century, because they, they were like, they were first anti-Christians, they were like criminal immigrants, they were like conspirators. There's, there's this, this is, this is, this is the, the antis, like people kind of like, as if Europe kind of like throw antisemitism on us. You understand that like Henry Ford, Henry Ford is one of the biggest anti... He was, he was the, the inspiration for Adolf Hitler. (laughs) This is how antisemitic Henry Ford was. And you kind of like gloss over that, and then suddenly we as Arabs have to pay the price. Why?

Lex Fridman 49:44 Several questions I want to ask there, so but one, just zooming out, why do you think hatred of Jews has been such a viral kind of idea throughout human history?

Bassem Youssef 49:55 Oh, it's very easy. It all started from Christ. "They killed Christ, they killed Christ, they killed Christ. They're the killer of Christ."

Lex Fridman 50:02 That's a very sexy story.

Bassem Youssef 50:03 That was so... Yeah, that was... And that stayed for years. That stayed for centuries, I'm sorry, centuries. "They're the killer of Christ." And then the ca- uh, th- the Catholic Church, church did not allow usury, but they would work in usury, so they become rich. Now the people that we hate, that we accuse them of killing Christ are becoming rich. So that's envy now, and that's, that... and, and, and that's hatred. I mean, I mean, when you talk about ghettos, ghettos were not just a secluded parts in cities, sometimes those ghettos were outside the cities. Jews were not even allowed to work a lot of professions, they were not allowed to get into the syndicates of certain, uh, professions, so they had to go work usury and they got rich. So they, they, the people hated them more. The first, the first crusade didn't kill a single Muslim, all they killed were Jews.

Lex Fridman 50:59 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 50:59 And when they finally arrived to Jeru- Jerusalem, all they killed were Jews. They, they almost annihilated the Jews. So it was all this... And of course you have the dark ages, who do you need there as an enemy? The Jews, right? "They're the killer of Christ, there is nothing bigger than this." And then you, you fast-forward... I mean, one of the things that I, that I found out that was very, very, very, very crazy, when Henry Ford imported the, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. By the way, in the Arab world, Protocols of the Elders of Zion is so popular.

Lex Fridman 51:34 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 51:36 (laughs) For no obvious reasons. And for the people who don't know it, it's kind of like a bunch of like stories and basically it's like the, the, the, the, the Jews say like, "We're going to control the world-"

Lex Fridman 51:46 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 51:46 "... and we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that," and whatever. What people don't know, that the, that is a work of plagiarism.

Lex Fridman 51:54 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 51:55 It was plagiarized from a satirical play called Conversation in Hell Between Machiavelli and, and Montesquieu. And it is just... It, it, it is... And it is kind of like based on one chapter, one scene or s- It was... It is crazy.

Lex Fridman 52:11 But it's crazy how sticky it is, like-

Bassem Youssef 52:13 Yes.

Lex Fridman 52:14 ... that's weird.

Bassem Youssef 52:14 Yes. Because if I, if I hate you, that's great, but if I have a story to support that hate, ah, that's even better.

Lex Fridman 52:20 But it's like one of the, one of the best stories, one of the stickiest stories about hate.

Bassem Youssef 52:26 Of course.

Lex Fridman 52:26 And it's probably the, the most effective, because like there... You know, a lot of peoples hate other groups of peoples, but that, that's just like the sexiest story of them all.

Bassem Youssef 52:36 Oh, because humans need to concentrate their hate, their insecurities and their shortcomings into one thing that they can practice that ha- that hate on. If it's a g- it's a, it's a person, great. If it's a group, even better.

Lex Fridman 52:55 Right. How do you, into this calculus, incorporate that, that group is pretty small? There's 16 million Jews worldwide.

Bassem Youssef 53:02 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 53:04 And you mentioned how is that the responsibility of the Arab peoples, you know, everybody should be to blame for not taking in Jews after the, the Holocaust. But, you know, the reality of the situation, if we look at the religious slice of this, there's 16, let's say, million Jews, and there's, I don't know how many Muslims, but 1.8 billion?

Bassem Youssef 53:27 Yeah, yeah.

Lex Fridman 53:28 How... Do you... That difference, that, uh, 100X difference, do you incorporate that into the s- sense that, uh, Jews in Israel might feel for, you know, the existential dread that we might...

Bassem Youssef 53:45 Uh-

Lex Fridman 53:45 This, this small group might be destroyed.

Bassem Youssef 53:47 Jews in Israel have every right to feel afraid, because of everything that they see and everything they've been told, everything. But I, I, I would say that the calculus or the numbers doesn't ma- Uh, like... O- of course, like being small, uh, it is, of course, a factor, but it is never an excuse in order to take something that's not yours. It's saying like, "Hey, you have 300 million Americans and we have 52, 50 suits, yes, give one state 300 million to each, there's too many of them, too, too many of you, just give them something." You know, it's like the fact that I have something and you don't, and I have... and there's too many of me and there's little of you, and then you come in and, and it's not really Israel against the Arab world or the Muslim world, because we have to say, "We fucked up big time." But it is the, the, the, the, the Palestinians that are in and they are being subjected to that. So it's not really like the 1.8 billion and the 16 million Jews.

Lex Fridman 54:43 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 54:44 And the 1.8 billion, if you look at them, some of them like don't care, some of them live into regimes, have been oppressed, and those regimes are supported by the United States in order... It's easier for me as a, as a, as an empire to, to take what I want from this country if I control the dictator. And I tell them that his power...... is linked to my ability to, to, to, my, my desire to keep him in power. So that's why you have a total disconnect between people in power in, in the Arab and the Muslim countries and the people themselves.

Lex Fridman 55:15 Can you speak to 1948? You know, 'cause you mentioned taking land that's not yours. Uh, maybe parallels with Native Americans?

Bassem Youssef 55:25 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lex Fridman 55:28 There was a war. The, the Jewish minority fought that war against several Arab states, and won that war. How do we incorporate that into the calculus?

Bassem Youssef 55:41 Yeah. Well, that's, uh, also a misconception, a, like a misinterpretation of the event, because it seems that it was, uh, like the small, the mi- the... It's kind of like a David and Goliath kind of story. But... And I was always like, "How did we, how did we not do that?" But w- in, in reality with numbers, uh, I, I can't pull it up right now, but if you look at the numbers, the number of tanks, the planes, the, the, um, trained officer, because those, many of those Jewish, uh, fighters came from World War II. They were seasoned fighters. And they actually had more planes, more tanks, more artillery, more pieces of weapon, more of the all of other combined, because they, the, the r- the people that really, like, fought was Egypt. And you have... So 1948, some, many of those Arab countries didn't even have their independence, so they would kind of, like, send, like, a cavalry, or like a people in horses. But in fact, the whole idea was like, "We won against seven nations."

Lex Fridman 56:44 Sure.

Bassem Youssef 56:44 The numbers were totally in Israel favor. They were better equipped, they were better trained, they were, they had, like, more tanks and, and, and artillery and, and, and, and, and airplanes. And they planned, planned better. So they... Yes, they deserved to win, because they planned and we didn't.

Lex Fridman 56:59 So to you, there was an asymmetry of military power even then?

Bassem Youssef 57:03 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 57:03 But what do you do with the fact that the war was won? So, like, if you look at the history of the world-

Bassem Youssef 57:08 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 57:11 ... there is wars fought over land.

Bassem Youssef 57:15 Mm. I agree with you. This has been the history of humanity. Humanity was not living peacefully. It's all about, like, people taking people, and i- killing people, taking their land. But there's two difference here. Mostly, usually, the conquering power, like for example, England. They had England, and they conquer you in India, and after the occupation finished, they go back to England. Uh, France, uh, Greece, Persia, Egypt. They would, like, go in, expand and ex- shrink, expand and shrink. It's a-lways been there. What is different here is exactly what happened in Australia and the United States. A group of people came in, not just to conquer and take the land, but to completely change the, to, to replace them and get them out or kill them. It was very easy with the Indians, because they had smallpox, there was no social media, they did it over 400 years. They had time. The problem is what is happening right now, I agree with you, it might not bad- be that new, but we are there, and we're watching it happen.

Lex Fridman 58:16 And so now, we have to confront the realities of war and e- empire-

Bassem Youssef 58:20 B- b- b- yeah.

Lex Fridman 58:21 ... and conquering and-

Bassem Youssef 58:22 B- because you know what's the problem? We told ourself we can be better.

Lex Fridman 58:25 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 58:26 A- after 1948, there was the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It means that we are gonna be better humans. We're not gonna kill and take land. We're not gonna displace people. We're not gonna take people for their... There's now laws, there's international laws, there's International Court of Justice. And now Israel is giving the middle finger to all of them.

Lex Fridman 58:45 So isn't it in some fundamental way, this whole thing that we're talking about is us as a civilization on social media, in, in, uh, in articles and books, in, in, uh, in newspapers, we're just trying to figure out who are we as a people?

Bassem Youssef 59:01 I, I think the, the shock came from the fact that we thought that we as humanity have evolved, and now we are... What have actually changed is that we became more advanced in effectively eradicating a group of people because of the technology that we have, and the fact that we can do that under the eyes and ears of all the world, and we are watching it under a phone. We have a window. We have a window to the war. You know? 1945, people didn't know what was happening in Japan, what... Well, we heard about it in the radio. Like, "Oh, today our forces came in, and they launched..." We don't know. We heard it. We, maybe we saw pictures after that, and it's quite edited, but now we see it. We're into it. And it is, it is so much for our, for, for our psyche, and we can't get it, and it's like... And then the Arabs are saying like, "Guys, you told us, we came to the West because we were told that we were equal." You know the Universal Declaration of Right, one of the co-authors, his name is Stefan Hassel. He's a Jew. He is a survivor of the Holocaust. And you know what happened to him? He died, by the way, a couple of years ago, but he... Before he died, he was canceled by so many people, and he was called anti-Semitic, because he joined the BDS movement, and he spoke about of Palestine. That is the author of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that we value so much, and we think that that would define our humanity. But then we go in, and we are shocked. It's like maybe we were sold something... Maybe that was (laughs) false advertisement. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:00:40 You shared a tweet by an account called Awesome Jew.

Bassem Youssef 1:00:46 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:00:46 Uh, it reads-

Bassem Youssef 1:00:48 (coughs)

Lex Fridman 1:00:48 ... "Islamo-Nazi comedian Bassem Youssef..." Comedian in quotes, by the way.

Bassem Youssef 1:00:53 (laughs) Yeah, yeah, of course, because I'm not funny.

Lex Fridman 1:00:55 So, "Islamo-Nazi comedian Bassem Youssef is now denying the Octo-" I, I love that you retweeted it like this, like twice.

Bassem Youssef 1:01:02 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 1:01:03 I guess, suppose because it's advertising some upcoming dates, uh. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:01:06 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:01:07 He's n- he, he's now d- denying October 7th massacre. The Muslim radical..."Bassem Youssef is notorious for his radical, radical said twice, for his radical hatred of Jews in Israel. In a recent clip, he claims that the atrocities committed on October 7th are fabricated. We're looking for all information regarding any of his upcoming shows, as well as the venues which host the scumbag. Would Jews feel safe around this Nazi?

Bassem Youssef 1:01:33 Mm.

Lex Fridman 1:01:34 Nazi.

Bassem Youssef 1:01:34 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 1:01:36 I've never ... This is my first time interviewing a Nazi.

Bassem Youssef 1:01:38 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:01:39 So this is a big honor.

Bassem Youssef 1:01:39 I know. It's the first time I actually get called a Nazi.

Lex Fridman 1:01:41 First time?

Bassem Youssef 1:01:42 First time. I have been called so many things in Egypt. So, in Egypt, I was called, um, a CIA operative, a Mossad spy, a secret Muslim brother with a secret mu- a, a secret Jew. A secret Jew.

Lex Fridman 1:01:58 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:01:59 Uh, there was also an article that was published about me in the state-run media saying, in details, how Bassem has been, uh, recruited by CIA agents using Jon Stewart in order to use satire to bring down the country.

Lex Fridman 1:02:13 Mm.

Bassem Youssef 1:02:14 I was a Freemason, an infidel, um, uh, a, a member of the, uh, the, the, the, te- the Knights of the Temple, something like that. And there is actually people, the, the Muslim brotherhood on their show they would say like, "He is actually an Israeli, and they have forged an Egyptian ID for him to come here." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:02:33 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:02:33 So, it's kind of like when I gets like ... I, I said, "I had, I left all of that behind, and I come here, it's like boom, anti-Semitic Nazi." Damn.

Lex Fridman 1:02:41 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:02:41 I mean, I really covered everything. I don't know what else.

Lex Fridman 1:02:44 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:02:44 I mean, I think I have-

Lex Fridman 1:02:45 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:02:45 It's kind of like I'm collecting PhDs.

Lex Fridman 1:02:47 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:02:47 (laughs) I'm, I'm just like getting like all of these credits. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:02:51 (laughs) How do you deal with that? How do you deal with the attacks? I, I mean, this goes back to the decision to, um, do the interview with Piers Morgan. Like, how, how do you like psychologically, through all of it?

Bassem Youssef 1:03:03 These kind of attacks, at the beginning it's fun, but when they evolve into something else ... So for example, I was like laughing off all of the stuff about calling me this, calling me that, but then when people would come and, and thread the theater ... Because it's not the people who are making those accusations that would come to you.

Lex Fridman 1:03:20 Mm.

Bassem Youssef 1:03:20 It's the people that will hear and see those as a, these accusations and act on it.

Lex Fridman 1:03:25 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:03:26 And there's always the fear of like ... I mean, we have, we have in the Arab world a lot of things that somebody would hear something about someone else and go kill him and whatever, like anybody else. So there's this ... But somehow, I wanna make fun of it. And, and it is to be called a nat- an Islamonazi, it must been the funniest thing ever-

Lex Fridman 1:03:48 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:03:48 ... because it doesn't ... Islamonazi, wow. How did you, how did you ... And a radical Muslim. Me, a lot of Islamists hate me.

Lex Fridman 1:03:56 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:03:56 They will call me a secular infidel. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:04:00 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:04:00 So it's kind of like, who am I? Maybe I have an identity crisis, and I need the people to tell me who I am.

Lex Fridman 1:04:06 Hmm.

Lex Fridman 1:04:07 Well, let, let's go to the beginning. Let's go to your childhood. You grew up in Egypt, Cairo, Egypt.

Bassem Youssef 1:04:13 Oh. (laughs) My childhood. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:04:15 (laughs) Well, let's figure out how you came to be who you are. Just ...

Bassem Youssef 1:04:18 How did you become an Islamonazi? (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:04:20 Yeah, exactly. It's a long journey. I do like the swastika tattoo on your ass, which I didn't-

Bassem Youssef 1:04:26 (laughs) How did you see my ass? (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:04:27 You know what you did.

Bassem Youssef 1:04:28 I know I did. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:04:30 (laughs) It was very inappropriate. You're also obviously a sexual harasser of me.

Bassem Youssef 1:04:34 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:04:34 Like ... I don't know.

Bassem Youssef 1:04:36 Is this ... This is like a MeToo or the-

Lex Fridman 1:04:37 Yes. This is the-

Bassem Youssef 1:04:38 This is, this is like 2020 or the ... This is, someone will come up. It's like, "Okay, we have it."

Lex Fridman 1:04:42 Yeah. Please clip it.

Bassem Youssef 1:04:43 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:04:43 This is your MeToo moment.

Bassem Youssef 1:04:44 Mm.

Lex Fridman 1:04:45 Um, all right.

Bassem Youssef 1:04:46 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:04:47 So Cairo. What's a, what's a, what's a memor- defining memory, positive or negative, from your childhood?

Bassem Youssef 1:04:54 My memory in general was, was cool. It was cool. I went to a Catholic ch- uh, uh, school until the ... For, for primary school, the elementary. And by the time I'd done, uh, there was kind of like a start of a decline into the public education. And my parents, they're like middle class working officials. He, my dad was a judge. My mom was a business professors, and she's ... And they were like one of the peoples like they didn't have that much luxury. My dad like drove like a regular like car, a Fiat, which is like the equivalent for the Lada in, uh-

Lex Fridman 1:05:30 Thank you. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:05:30 ... in Russia. (laughs) Yeah.

Lex Fridman 1:05:31 Thank you for speaking to the audience. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:05:32 Yeah. (laughs) The, the Lada. And, um-

Lex Fridman 1:05:35 Well, so would that be a good car or bad car?

Bassem Youssef 1:05:38 No, no. It's kind of like, kind of like the minimum. Uh, my dad was not like a man of, of, of showing off. He, whatever money they would do, they would put it for us, education, give everything to their kids. This is kind of like a very, very typical mentality. Uh, and I'm sure it's in many cultures, but like we grew up with this. Like, everything that we have is like for kids. So they would put us into education. So, uh, middle school, uh, that was the big ... 1986 was the beginning of the explosion of like international schools, private schools. And these schools were relatively expensive. Of course, now with today's currency, it's ridiculous, but at that time, it's very expensive. So I went to that school, and from ... There was this moment was like you feel less right away. I mean, the pe- he, he ... Of course, there's the, the regular bullying and stuff, but it's, it's not that. It's kind of like you always feel less. You don't have that much of like purchasing power that can allow you to go to the same outings or travel with them. And even like how you dress, it will be modest compared to them. So I was always an outsider. I was, uh ... And I compensated with that by two things, being good at school and being good at sports. So I was not like the typical nerd who's just like that. I was like, I was playing football, basketball, cracker in field. And I was like one of the ... People would like to have me on their team. So I wasn't like kind of like, "Ah, he's nerd. Get him away." But I never had a girlfriend. I never had any kind of ... I was not like w- ... I was not boyfriend material.

Lex Fridman 1:07:09 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:07:10 So that's kind of like it, it leaves remnants in you that you're not good enough.

Lex Fridman 1:07:15 But psychologically, you're always ... Like, when you're by yourself, you felt like an outsider.

Bassem Youssef 1:07:19 Yes, all the time. And that's why kind of like I'm more of a loner. I don't have a lot of-... what you call friends, I have acquaintances, people that I do stuff with, but I don't have like the people that I tell them everything. When I went to medical school, now medical school is a different animal. Medical school is where all of the people from the public schools go. Public schools are very, like ... they are not, they, they don't have like, they, they don't have English, uh, uh, language as like a strong ............................, but they are brilliant people. So because they would, mostly they study in Arabic. But they are brilliant, and they are very, very, very smart, very sharp. But then I go there, now I am the sissy boy-

Lex Fridman 1:07:55 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:07:56 ... from the private school-

Lex Fridman 1:07:57 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:07:58 ... that comes into medical school. Now I'm an outsider again. And I go into, uh, I, I go into residency, and I pick up salsa. So now I'm a salsa teacher, while being a cardio thoracic, uh, uh, surgery resident, and I'm an outsider for the third time, because in salsa-

Lex Fridman 1:08:17 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:08:17 ... I'm kind of like the respectful doctor. And in resident, I'm the guy who is just dancing. So and everything, of course, as a dr- a medical resident, you will mess up a lot.

Lex Fridman 1:08:25 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:08:26 So they would always like, "Oh, because you're a dancer. Oh, because you don't care about medicine, you just like want to go there and dance with women." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:08:33 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:08:33 Which is true.

Lex Fridman 1:08:33 Yeah, it's true.

Bassem Youssef 1:08:34 But... (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:08:35 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:08:36 But ... A- and so all of my life, I felt that I'm an outsider. I'm not part of the team, I'm not part of the core group. So w- when ... And, and I have a, a story that you would love. I, right before my residency, I was so much into salsa, so I sp- I asked all of the money and then saved da, da. And I was working summers, and I was doing extra jobs. And I took that money, and I went to Miami, in order to-

Lex Fridman 1:09:04 Nice.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:04 ... to learn-

Lex Fridman 1:09:05 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:06 ... uh, Rueda De Casino, which is the Cuban-

Lex Fridman 1:09:08 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:08 ... kind of like circle salsa kind of thing.

Lex Fridman 1:09:10 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:09:10 And I, and I went there in the summer of 2001.

Lex Fridman 1:09:14 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:15 And my return ticket-

Lex Fridman 1:09:16 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:09:17 ... was 9/12/2001.

Lex Fridman 1:09:21 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:09:21 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:09:22 The universe has a sense of humor-

Bassem Youssef 1:09:23 What, what-

Lex Fridman 1:09:23 I got to tell you that.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:24 No, no, what ... My, my ... Night 9/12-

Lex Fridman 1:09:27 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:27 ... I was supposed to be on a plane coming back to Egypt.

Lex Fridman 1:09:29 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:29 What happens? Thank God, I ran out of money ten days before that. So I was like, "All right." I changed my ticket, and I came back. 9/11, I'm kind of like, "Ah, see..." W- my mom, "Wake up! Wake up!"

Lex Fridman 1:09:42 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:09:43 "What? What?" It's like, and I see like the two tower, fall, and it was like, but Mom was like, "Oh, you're here, you're here, you're here." It's like, "Go, you're here."

Lex Fridman 1:09:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:50 That, and I was like f- I was like, "I should, I could have been in Guantanamo right now." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:09:55 (laughs) Yeah. Fly- flying at 9/12.

Bassem Youssef 1:09:58 And, but by the way, I was in Miami the way they, when they went to the, the flying school-

Lex Fridman 1:10:02 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:10:02 ... in Miami. So that, I mean, I, I had-

Lex Fridman 1:10:04 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:10:04 ... I, I had like 9/11-

Lex Fridman 1:10:06 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:10:07 ... (laughs) written all over my face. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:10:08 You'd be all over the news. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:10:09 All over the news.

Lex Fridman 1:10:09 I bet, yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:10:10 And Mom was like, "What? He went there to dance salsa? I didn't know that salsa is like a name for terrorist." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:10:17 (laughs) Why salsa? Why, why, why did that attract you? And what, like can you explain what salsa is? So I, I mentioned to you offline that I've been doing a little bit of tango.

Bassem Youssef 1:10:25 Or something.

Lex Fridman 1:10:25 I'm trying to learn it.

Bassem Youssef 1:10:25 Yes, uh, uh, like, you know, samba, salsa, bachata, merengue, it's kind of like Latin dances. Uh, and, uh, it's like, um, you know ... I, I don't know how you describe salsa. Couple dance on Latin beat. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:10:38 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:10:38 And, uh, uh, I, I did it because I, I once I ... and I talk about that about my, in my Arabic standup comedy, not the English. I talk about like how I was, you know ... I, I didn't have like really like a great like social life. And I, my friends went there one day, and then ... and I get, go into a place which call, it's, it was called El Gato Negro. No, no, it was called Big Fat Black Pussy Cat. And then I think they, they, they thought it will be like racist or something, so, so she changed it to El Gato Negro. Anyways, so ... (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:11:14 Great, great-

Bassem Youssef 1:11:15 I know. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:11:15 ... great decision.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:16 I know. So I went there as like, "Damn, music-"

Lex Fridman 1:11:20 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:21 ... "and women."

Lex Fridman 1:11:22 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:22 And my doctor, a doctor dancing salsa? That is a chick magnet.

Lex Fridman 1:11:26 Yeah, 100%.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:27 But we know, we do ev- you know, we do everything for, for that.

Lex Fridman 1:11:31 All of human

Narrator 1:11:31 ... society.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:31 E- e- e- even power, even money. We do it.

Lex Fridman 1:11:33 All the wars we've been talking about-

Bassem Youssef 1:11:35 For women.

Lex Fridman 1:11:36 (laughs) At the end of the day.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:37 F- f- f- without the approval from the other sex, we are s- we are babies. We were ... (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:11:42 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:42 We are terrible people.

Lex Fridman 1:11:43 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:44 So I ... Of course, like I mean, that, that was like, that was like great. But then I, as, as a nerd, I went in so hard, and now I became a salsa teacher.

Lex Fridman 1:11:54 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:11:55 And I earned more money from salsa, more than I did-

Lex Fridman 1:11:57 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:11:58 ... as a doctor as a resident. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:12:00 I didn't know this part of you. That's hilarious.

Bassem Youssef 1:12:02 I know. I was, I was making, I was making k- killing amount of money, like huge amount of money. And I, I was just like, you know, I would, I would go finish my, my, my shift, and I go to the salsa class. And sometimes I would have like 70 people in my salsa class.

Lex Fridman 1:12:16 Oh, wow.

Bassem Youssef 1:12:16 I had like the biggest salsa class in Egypt, in, in-

Lex Fridman 1:12:19 Wow.

Bassem Youssef 1:12:19 ... at the beginning of the, on, on 2000. And it was fantastic. And it was an outlet, because you go there, and there is the shifts, and people dying. Damn. And then you go, "Salsa." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:12:28 Can escape. You must have been good.

Bassem Youssef 1:12:31 I, I was okay. I was cool. I was fun. There were people better than me, but I, I, I, I have a, a thing about teaching. I like teaching people.

Lex Fridman 1:12:39 So you, you mentioned heart surgery. So what, what motivated you to become a doctor?

Bassem Youssef 1:12:43 It was, uh, a choice of exclusion. I mean, there is nothing else you can do with these high grades other than doctor and engineering. I hate math, so go be a doctor. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:12:53 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:12:53 (laughs) This is the Middle East. What do you expect? It's either a, a doc ... Like I, in my joke in my show, I said like there is, it can be one of three things in the Middle East, a doctor, an engineer, or a disappointment. It is the, that is the choices that you have. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:13:07 (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:13:08 So years after, I'm a disappointment. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:13:13 (laughs) Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:13:13 Here I am.

Lex Fridman 1:13:14 You're damn good at it though. (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:13:16 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:13:16 Uh, that's a hard path though.

Bassem Youssef 1:13:18 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 1:13:19 Right? And it's, uh, it's a fascinating one for me.

Bassem Youssef 1:13:22 Can I tell you something-

Lex Fridman 1:13:22 Yes.

Bassem Youssef 1:13:23 ... that actually I was thinking about? Why did I actually go into medicine? And why did I always choose the hardest thing, although I didn't love it?And I have to tell you, I had an epiphany only two weeks ago. And I don't know if that's actually related or not. You know, remember when I told you I went to this school, and I didn't have that much money, and I didn't have the luxury of time or money to be with those people and do what they do. So by the time I finished school and everybody was going to university, all, everybody in my school went to the AUC, the American University in Cairo. Of course, private. No, n- like, uh, American education, party time, like, uh, I mean, of course they're brilliant and everything, but they have, yeah, they- they have a different, you know, social life. And part of me now, I- I kind of like, I realized that just like very, very recently, maybe I went to the hardest school ever so I don't have space to use other than studying. Because if I have that much space, what I'm gonna do with it? I don't have that much freedom. I don't have that much money. I'm not, I can't compete with those people going out. So maybe I need a solid excuse that I'm in a place where I don't have that much of a spare time.

Lex Fridman 1:14:40 (laughs) Is it also possible... I like how this is a therapy session where we're psychoanalyzing you.

Bassem Youssef 1:14:45 Yeah. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:14:45 Is it also possible that you always just pick the hardest thing you could possibly do?

Bassem Youssef 1:14:50 Maybe.

Lex Fridman 1:14:51 But maybe that's the Piers Morgan thing too.

Bassem Youssef 1:14:54 I-

Lex Fridman 1:14:54 Like what... (laughs)

Bassem Youssef 1:14:55 Maybe. But like when I left Egypt and I came here, I still had the choice to go back to medicine.

Lex Fridman 1:15:00 Sure.

Bassem Youssef 1:15:00 But I hated it. I hated, medicine traumatized me. The amount of like, you give up, you know, my- my brother in Egypt, he had a daughter. She's a brilliant basketball player. She is in the national team. Amazing. I w- I used to play basketball also in the Egyptian league, but I never, I was kind of like, my favorite position in the court was the bench.

Lex Fridman 1:15:20 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:15:20 And (laughs) -

Lex Fridman 1:15:22 Right.

Bassem Youssef 1:15:22 ... I was not as good as her, but she, and then, and then he- he- it was time for her to go into me- into college.

Lex Fridman 1:15:30 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:15:30 And he- he didn't talk to me for six weeks. I said, "What, Tamer, what- what's happening to Farida? Which college?" He's like, "I didn't want to tell you she went into medicine." I said, "What? Medicine? Why did he do?" Because he knows how I hated it.

Lex Fridman 1:15:41 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:15:41 I was traumatized. ............................ And I said like, "Dude, she's a basketball player. Make her go like to an easy school." He's like, "No." So that's kind of... It's fine.

Lex Fridman 1:15:50 You still did it. You still did it-

Bassem Youssef 1:15:51 I still did it.

Lex Fridman 1:15:52 ... and you hate it.

Bassem Youssef 1:15:52 But I don't know. Is it because of the difficulty or because- because of what I told you? Maybe I needed something, maybe because I was not very confident in my social life. So I needed a distraction not to be, to have that much of a social life.

Lex Fridman 1:16:08 Oh wow. Okay.

Bassem Youssef 1:16:09 You understand?

Lex Fridman 1:16:09 I see. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Bassem Youssef 1:16:10 So it's- it's kind of loud because I will always have an excuse, I'm studying. I have something, I have exams. And I don't know, but I kind of like self-sabotaged my own thing because I couldn't compete with- with those people on- on the outing and the money and whatever. So I need an excuse to be like, "Oh, he's a doctor, he's studying."

Lex Fridman 1:16:26 At least in your own mind, you couldn't compete.

Bassem Youssef 1:16:28 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Lex Fridman 1:16:29 Fear.

Bassem Youssef 1:16:30 I- I- I always felt as less because, I mean, I- I didn't have any girlfriends in- in- in school. I had very little life. And everything came to me, came to life. So I always felt... Even standup comedy, it came very late to me in life. So I always feel that I'm not good enough.

Lex Fridman 1:16:45 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:16:46 I feel that I didn't spend the time of, to build the foundation that other comedians do. So I always feel that I am too lucky.

Lex Fridman 1:16:54 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:16:55 I always feel that this is a fleeting thing. And when I went, had the- the- the height and the fall, the fall all of, in Egypt, when I would like-

Lex Fridman 1:17:04 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:17:04 ... the top of- of everything, I was like, so- so famous. And then everything was taken away from me. That's like, "Oh, you see, I told you, that's happens when you don't build foundation, you fall." So I always feel that I, that I am not good enough or if I am in a position where people think I am, deep inside, I am not. Do you know that I have a speech impediment, that I was not meant to be a TV presenter?

Lex Fridman 1:17:27 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:17:28 I have an ar- in Arabic, it's very obvious. I cannot roll my Rs.

Lex Fridman 1:17:31 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:17:32 I cannot say R, I cannot roll it. So in Arabic, like Spanish, it's very obvious.

Lex Fridman 1:17:37 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:17:39 So when I did my first video on the internet that made me famous, and then I got my television deal back there- there in Egypt, my partner at the time, he took the video and he went to a producer. He said like, "Are you giving me a guy with a lisp?" He couldn't, he should... That's why when I came on television, I was the first ever guy with a lisp. I had two things going for me, the lisp and the big nose. And I was always bullied for two, for these two all the time. So I always felt less.

Lex Fridman 1:18:03 See, but that's the foundation of like creating a great person.

Bassem Youssef 1:18:07 Yeah. Because if you're pretty, uh, uh, uh... (laughs) . You don't need to do much.

Lex Fridman 1:18:13 (laughs) I probably wouldn't recommend it, but it is- it is true that...

Bassem Youssef 1:18:18 So if you are pretty, do some disfigurement. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:18:22 (laughs) Find the flaws and- and, uh, be extremely self-critical about them.

Bassem Youssef 1:18:28 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 1:18:29 So you saw Jon Stewart on TV for the first time in- in, uh, 2003...

Bassem Youssef 1:18:35 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 1:18:35 ... I believe. How did that change your life?

Bassem Youssef 1:18:37 I was in the gym and I was running on the treadmill. And at that time, CNN was coming out for, on like, on cable. Uh, and, uh, I was watching and there's this studio, I don't know what it is. So I put the- the earphones on and I started watching. And I was so taken by this that I stopped the treadmill and I just like st- stood for the 20 minutes like this on the treadmill. And then I le- and I just like standing there. I didn't know what we was, he was saying. I didn't understand what is Democrats, what is Republicans, what is... What the... Those names that he's saying, what is Fox News? I don't understand. But I was fascinated.

Lex Fridman 1:19:18 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:19:19 There was something, you know, when you don't understand the music, but you get the rhythm.

Lex Fridman 1:19:22 Mm-hmm.

Bassem Youssef 1:19:22 It was that.

Lex Fridman 1:19:23 I wonder what that is that you saw. It's like the timing of the humor. I mean, there is... Jon Stewart is one of a kind. Like his biting...... criticism of power, I would say, and also ability to highlight the absurdity of it all. But you understand I didn't understand any of that. But I think maybe-

Bassem Youssef 1:19:40 I didn't understand any of the references. But it is the m- it's th- the rhythm.

Lex Fridman 1:19:44 The, yeah, the rhythm of it.

Bassem Youssef 1:19:45 The rhythm. You know sometimes when you even see like a comedy that is, that's a language you don't understand, but there's a rhythm. Da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da, boom, boom.

Lex Fridman 1:19:55 Yeah.

Bassem Youssef 1:19:55 There's something, there's something