Lex Fridman PodcastBotez Sisters: Chess, Streaming, and Fame | Lex Fridman Podcast #319
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,022 words- 0:00 – 3:18
Introduction
- ABAlexandra Botez
I mean, I've definitely experienced moments where I didn't want to do anything but chess.
- ABAndrea Botez
I would also say that's pretty universal. I think if you wanna be that, the best at anything you do, or any sport, you have to be that level of obsessed.
- LFLex Fridman
The following is a conversation with Alexandra and Andraia Botez. They are sisters, professional chess players, commentators, educators, entertainers, and streamers. Their channel is called Botez Live on Twitch and YouTube. I highly recommend you check it out. A small side note about the currently ongoing controversy in the chess world, where the 19-year-old grandmaster Hans Niemann beat Magnus Carlsen at the Sinquefield Cup. After this, Magnus, for the first time ever, withdrew from the tournament, implying with a tweet that there may have been cheating or at least something shady going on. Folks like the Grandmaster Hikaru Nakamura fanned the flames of cheating accusations, and the internet made a bunch of proposals on how the cheating could have been done, and it ranged from the ridiculous to the hilarious, often both. Hans himself came out and said that he has cheated before when he was 12 and 16 on random online games to jack up his rating. But he said that he has never cheated in person over the board. Danny Rensch from chess.com, who I've spoken with, may make a statement in response to Hans' claims soon. Folks like Grandmaster Jakub Urga spoke to his experience training Hans Niemann, and has said that, "His memory and intuition were quite brilliant." So as you see, there's a lot of perspectives on this. ChessBase has a good summary of the saga that I'll link in the description. Also note that this is so quickly moving that new stuff might come out between me recording this and publishing the episode, but I thought I'd mention this anyway since the episode with the Botez sisters is a conversation about chess and was recorded shortly before the controversy, so we didn't talk about it. I'm considering having Hans on this podcast, and also Magnus back on the podcast, and maybe others like Hikaru or folks from chess.com's anti-cheat staff to discuss their really interesting cheating detection algorithms, but I may also just stay out of it. I find chess to be a beautiful game, and the chess community full of fascinating, brilliant people, and so I'll keep having conversations like these about chess. It's fun. My goal with this podcast and in general as a human being is to increase the amount of love in the world. Sometimes that involves celebrating brilliance and beauty in science, in art, in chess. Sometimes it involves empathetic conversations with controversial figures that seek to understand, not deride. Sometimes it involves standing against the internet lynch mob, as the ChessBase article calls it, to hear the story of a human being who is under attack, even if it means I get attacked in the process as well. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Alexandra and Andraia Botez.
- 3:18 – 10:20
Trip to Italy
- LFLex Fridman
You just got back from Italy. What's the most memorable thing? I was just there recently as well.
- ABAlexandra Botez
It was very chaotic because we went out on a whim, and we only f- had our first hotel booked, and then we rented a car and drove around all of the cities and went to, like, five different cities in about a week and a bit. Um, so I think it was just the variety of seeing so many different places when we're used to being at home all the time. And Andraia, is yours your luggage?
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah. I would say it was the most stressful vacation we've been in in our life, and it was a valuable learning lesson because now I know how to be prepared for trips. Um, but we lost our bags and I never got them back. And like Alex said, we didn't know where we'd be sleeping every night and we're just driving through a new city, um, with a giant van in the most narrowest streets with... and getting in many, many fights with Italian men. Um, so-
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
... it wasn't really a vacation.
- ABAlexandra Botez
I saw this motion so many times (laughs) .
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. Wasn't it liberating to lose your baggage? Is there, like, a silver lining?
- ABAndrea Botez
Actually, it, it was liberating. My entire life, I've always had the issue of overpacking no matter what.
- ABAlexandra Botez
And I told her before the trip, "Andrea, you're gonna pack light, right?" "Yeah, Alex, yeah." And then I see her stuffing her overweight suitcase.
- ABAndrea Botez
But you did the same. We both had giant, big, like, extra baggage that we didn't need. And I'm actually very glad we lost it because for Venice, hauling that around on all the boats and through the tiny streets, and there's no Ubers. Um, and now, it's the first time where I can travel without checking in a bag, which I've never done before. So now I've learned what it means to pack light, 'cause I saw that I could survive off of just my... This sounds very dramatic, but it was really a big learning lesson for me (laughs) .
- LFLex Fridman
The driving must have been crazy, 'cause driving in Italy is, is rough.
- ABAlexandra Botez
The driving was crazy. I did most of it, and it would be really interesting driving through places like Florence or even through, uh, the beach areas that were super windy, because there are two-way streets that should really only be one way. So you'd be driving this huge van, and then another car comes on a cliff, and you're just waiting for it to slowly pass. So it took all of my focus and concentration to drive well in Italy, but it was actually really relaxing because the hardest thing about, uh, making a lot of videos online is you're always thinking about it, what's coming next. And when we were in Italy, it was so chaotic that I did not think about work for a good week and a bit.
- LFLex Fridman
Oh, 'cause you were just, uh-
- ABAndrea Botez
We were stressed.
- ABAlexandra Botez
I was just trying to keep us alive.
- ABAndrea Botez
Very stressed.
- ABAlexandra Botez
It seemed a higher priority. (laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
And that was kind of fun.
- ABAlexandra Botez
It was kind of fun.
- LFLex Fridman
No planning, nothing.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Just on a whim.
- ABAndrea Botez
I, I wouldn't recommend it or ever do that again, but... (laughs)
- ABAlexandra Botez
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
It sounds, sounds pretty awesome. It sounds-
- ABAlexandra Botez
And we even randomly ran into two friends of ours who were in the same city, and we just traveled with them for about half of the trip.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
So you just took on the chaos.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Exactly. It was an adventure.
- LFLex Fridman
Okay. And I see, like, 'cause you were using your hands a lot, you'd gotten-... you, you picked up some of the, the Italian hand gestures and stuff?
- 10:20 – 15:07
Chess tournaments
- ABAndrea Botez
- LFLex Fridman
So, how'd you guys get into chess? When, when did you first, let's say, when did you first fall in love with chess?
- ABAlexandra Botez
So we both started playing when we were pretty young, around six years old. That's when our dad taught us. And I enjoyed playing chess because I had good results early on, but a lot of it was being pushed from my dad to play chess, and I only really started loving it when we moved from Canada and we started moving a lot, and chess was the one stable thing that I had, and it was also where all my, uh, f- friends were, so it was kind of that foundational thing for me. And that's when I started studying chess very intensely, and when I started putting in the hours out of my own will and not because I was being pushed by my dad, that's when I started really loving it, and I even wanted to take time off college to just focus on chess.
- LFLex Fridman
So, training and competing?
- ABAlexandra Botez
Training and competing, yeah. It was when I was doing it for myself that I started getting my best results.
- LFLex Fridman
And actually enjoying the thing.
- ABAlexandra Botez
And really enjoying it, yeah. I would spend summer vacations studying for tournaments, and my mom would come and say, "You need to make friends. Go leave the house." And I'd be like, "No, I need to play chess."
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- ABAlexandra Botez
And I remember those moments.
- LFLex Fridman
That you rebelled by playing chess. That's awesome.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah, exactly.
- LFLex Fridman
How did you get into it?
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah. Uh, my, my experience with loving it in high school is very opposite from Alex's, but right, my sister was playing and my dad taught me when I was also six.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Andrea was cool in high school, unlike me.
- LFLex Fridman
You are.
- ABAndrea Botez
Uh, I, I wouldn't say cool. I'd say more balanced, and I was interested in other hobbies. In my childhood, if I ever really did love chess, there's certainly moments about like traveling and being together with my family and spending those moments together, but those were more the social and the experiences. But funny enough, like, I think my happiest moment where I really played the game for my own enjoyment was probably my most recent tournament, um, because-This was after, obviously, we've been streaming and I'm no longer in high school. But when I was in school, I was always playing for college and for the results, trying to build a resume. So I was too stressed out about the pressure to really enjoy the game. Whereas when I just played my first tournament, so it was like a, after like a two-year break because of the pandemic, um, and it was also all live on Twitch, so there was some pressure. But it was the first time that like I was really eager to study for the game, sitting and focusing since we've been streaming, and not getting distracted by something else in years, like I said. And the tournament experience, I hit my highest rating and it was my best tournament ever. And I think most of that is 'cause it came from my own enjoyment.
- LFLex Fridman
Hmm. So y- you didn't enjoy the, the domination? 'Cause I think you like did really well, right?
- ABAndrea Botez
In-
- LFLex Fridman
This is like a couple months ago.
- ABAndrea Botez
Uh, oh yeah, yeah. The tournament, well, of course, the, I think the results came from enjoying the tournament.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- ABAndrea Botez
'Cause I would be in high school like studying double, triple the amount of time, like six hours every day compared to this tournament, I didn't even prepare for it. And for three years, I wouldn't be able to pass one rating, whereas in this one tournament, I passed it by like 70 points without even any preparation. So it was, I think as soon as you stop worrying about the competition is when the games get much better.
- LFLex Fridman
Wh- what does it mean to pass a rating?
- ABAndrea Botez
So I was stuck at 1900.
- ABAlexandra Botez
1900 is 100 points off of expert.
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Usually when you reach 2000 you're considered an expert, which is the rating Andrea was going for.
- LFLex Fridman
Okay. Expert, that's like a technical term or that's like a talking trash-
- ABAlexandra Botez
It's more of a colo- it's more of a colloquial term where if somebody's around a 2000 and you're playing them in a tournament, they won't have the actual title next to their name, but you, you say "I'm playing an expert."
- LFLex Fridman
What about like the, the more official things like master?
- 15:07 – 27:11
Streaming
- ABAndrea Botez
- LFLex Fridman
Do you feel the pressure when you're actually recording it, like the streaming?
- ABAndrea Botez
It was definitely, so before every round I was vlogging and I was doing meet and greets, and doing other things for the livestreams.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, I saw you do a, a meet and greet.
- ABAndrea Botez
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
You didn't know what the hell you were doing. It's great. (laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah. Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Like, "What am I, how do I do this?"
- ABAlexandra Botez
(laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah. I, uh, see, we made it-
- LFLex Fridman
"What, what do I do?"
- ABAndrea Botez
It was actually really wholesome. The beginning was, um, very silly 'cause I was just not expecting that it was gonna be more of a seminar. I thought it was like, oh, you pose and take pictures. But they actually asked really nice, meaningful questions. But unfortunately it's bad for YouTube retention and we cut them all out, so.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughing) Bad for YouTube?
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) The good long form conversation.
- ABAndrea Botez
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
So it was like questions, Q&A type of thing.
- ABAndrea Botez
Exactly. You have to have very fast paced for YouTube, and, um, that seminar was not fast paced.
- LFLex Fridman
Okay. Well not everything in life needs to be on YouTube, right?
- ABAndrea Botez
That's true.
- LFLex Fridman
There's like two parallel things, stuff that's fun for YouTube.
- ABAndrea Botez
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
And-
- ABAndrea Botez
One day we'll post that Q&A on the-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, when you guys like, when you-
- ABAndrea Botez
... YouTube channel.
- LFLex Fridman
... become like ultra famous. You're currently just regular famous.
- ABAndrea Botez
Currently. Then they'll appreciate the long-
- ABAlexandra Botez
Andrea's first Q&A.
- ABAndrea Botez
... slow content, yes.
- 27:11 – 47:37
Chess strategies
- LFLex Fridman
when you guys play, when you look at the chess board, how much of it is calculation? How much of it is intuition? How much of it is memorized openings, um, also there?
- ABAlexandra Botez
It really depends between short form chess, so five minutes, three minutes, one minute, and classical chess.
- LFLex Fridman
What's your favorite to play?
- ABAlexandra Botez
I love playing blitz now because that's most of what I do, and that's actually how I got into chess streaming 'cause I couldn't spend entire weekends or weeks playing tournaments, so I would just, while I was in college, log on and play these long blitz or bullet sessions. And it's very fast so you don't have time to go ca- calculate as deeply. You basically have to calculate short lines pretty quickly, and a lot of it is pattern recognition and intuition. Um...
- LFLex Fridman
That's three minutes, you said?
- ABAlexandra Botez
Three minutes. Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Okay. Cool. And so for that, it's just, it's basically intuition?
- ABAlexandra Botez
A lot of it is intuition. Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
See, I saw on streams you actually keep talking while playing chess.
- ABAndrea Botez
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
It seems really difficult.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah, that helps my resul- that doesn't help my results. (laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
It doesn't? It hurts?
- ABAndrea Botez
It helps the content, not the game.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah, exactly.
- LFLex Fridman
But you can still do it.
- ABAndrea Botez
Right.
- LFLex Fridman
'Cause I, I, it feels like how can you possibly concentrate while talking?
- ABAlexandra Botez
It's because so much of it is intuition. You're not... While you're talking, you're thinking about that topic, but then you just come to the board and you just understand what you should be doing here. And then sometimes you get in trouble 'cause you're talking and you have now lost half of your time, you have a minute and a half, your opponent has three, and you're kind of at a disadvantage. Um, but that kind of goes to show that that's how blitz chess usually works, whereas classical is very different.
- LFLex Fridman
Which of you is better at chess? I mean, le- let's do it this way. Can you, um... Andrea, can you say what i- in which way is Alex stronger than you, which way is she weaker than you? Not physically, in, (laughs) -
- ABAndrea Botez
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
... in terms of the ch- in terms of chess.
- ABAndrea Botez
Um, well, yes, of course she is higher rated. But when we do play, um, I think her strength against me, where she really gets me is the end game. She has stronger end games so she can... And I actually have a stronger opening, um, but as soon as she's able to simplify-
- ABAlexandra Botez
Andrea, I'm supposed to say what is good about you, not you. (laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
You know, I'm getting there.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
Well, see, that's what I'm saying, 'cause... Don't worry, it's related, okay? 'Cause if, I can, I can get an advantage in the beginning of the game but as soon as she starts trading pieces down, like my confidence drops because I know that the end game is the hardest part of the game and the longest, and that's where she ends up beating me. So, her end game is her sh- I think really what makes the difference. And she has to be a little bit pos-
- LFLex Fridman
It sounds like her psychological warfare is better, too.
- ABAndrea Botez
That definitely-
- LFLex Fridman
'Cause if you're getting nervous.
- 47:37 – 1:05:37
King's Indian Defense
- ABAndrea Botez
- LFLex Fridman
One of the games you f- found to be pretty cool is the, uh, Hikaru Nakamura versus Gelfand in 2009 and that one, I think, includes the King's Indian defense?
- ABAndrea Botez
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
Um, what's, what's, why is that an interesting one to you?
- ABAndrea Botez
I also play the King's Indian as black and I love this model game but, and as Alex was saying, like all of these advantages it g- for the King's Indian, but now there's this one line that like every higher rated player just destroys my King's Indian, and you see these beautiful games and you're like, "Ah, yes, I wanna play for these ideas," but now no one plays into it anymore and you just get demolished, so this is why I don't play the King's Indian anymore, but not through in the fun or anything.
- ABAlexandra Botez
It's a love-hate relationship, truly. (laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
Just the tru- the reality. (laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
But that's like the higher level players do or does everybody do it?
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah, if, if you're studying openings and you know this line as white, you just, you automatically-
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah.
- ABAndrea Botez
... get the upper edge, which is-
- ABAlexandra Botez
And that's kind of how openings develop. You start having players trying new lines and then you see ones, and then everybody adopts it if they think it's the best one but yeah, so Hikaru is really known for his aggressive style of play and-
- LFLex Fridman
Is Hikaru Black here or what?
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah, Hikaru is black here, so he's playing the King's Indian and as you can see in this position, white already has a lot, a, a huge center advantage, but what Hikaru is gonna start doing even with the next move is bringing all of his pieces towards the white king side because his plan is to start pushing his pawns towards the white king and-
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah, this is-
- ABAlexandra Botez
... ignore the attack that goes on in the queen side.
- ABAndrea Botez
... this is like a great example of the dream attack with the King's Indian.
- LFLex Fridman
So there's a complete asymmetry towards the king side on the left side of the board is a, a ton of pieces.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah, exactly. Um-
- LFLex Fridman
Wow, he moved the knight like three times in a row. Interesting.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yep. And, and that's what you need to do 'cause you have to move th- the knight in order to make space for your pawn. So again, this is why it's so counterintuitive and Stockfish doesn't like it. You're putting almost most of your pieces on the back rank, and you're pushing your king-side pawns, and you're blocking your own dark squared bishop. So none of it makes sense.
- LFLex Fridman
You're mimicking it. That's awesome.
- ABAndrea Botez
Uh.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Um, okay. So yeah, here you see white going for a queen-side attack, black going for the king-side attack, and you can keep going a little bit, and I'll wait to where he starts with the pretty sacrifices.
- ABAndrea Botez
It's more fun to analyze games in person than on the computer, I think.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Okay. It's just-
- ABAndrea Botez
Here we go.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Okay, so here Hikaru is preparing the attack, and what I really like about this game is that he finds these tactics that are not necessarily what a computer would go for, but it's very hard to face as a human, and that's why a lot of people play the King's Indian because in, in practice, it's hard to defend against. So we can keep moving a little bit forward. Okay. Yep, so white is just continuing the king-side plan. And-
- LFLex Fridman
No, it's the fir... Is that like the first piece, I think, that's taken in the game?
- 1:05:37 – 1:10:03
Chess training
- ABAlexandra Botez
- LFLex Fridman
Uh, how do you train chess these days? What's, um... Do you practice? Do you do deliberate practice? I mean, you're in this tough position because you're also a creator, an educator, an entertainer. So do you try to put in time of, like, daily practice?
- ABAlexandra Botez
I don't train chess anymore when I'm focusing on creating. I do if I'm preparing for a tournament. But back in the day, I would train very tournament, very seriously for tournaments. And the way it would work is I'd do opening preparation for a specific tournament, because that's when you really need to have those lines memorized, and you could also prepare for specific opponents. And I would do tactics to make sure I stay sharp. So those are the two things I would do every single day for a tournament, and then mix up the rest with, like, maybe some end games, maybe some positional chess.
- LFLex Fridman
So what does tactics, uh, preparation looks like? Do you do, like, a puzzle-
- ABAlexandra Botez
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
... like, uh, like a random puzzle thing? Like-
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah. I would just train puzzles for at least, like, 30 to 60 minutes, or books. And sometimes you were... A- a- and there's different kinds of puzzles. One, you could train for pattern recognition, where you're supposed to go through them very quickly. And that's just so that when you're playing the game, if your mind is tired, it's still keeping track of things a little bit more easily. And then there's where you're practicing your combination, and those sometimes take like 20 minutes to find because you have to just calculate a lot. And it's more like making sure that you've trained that muscle. But Andrea's actually very good at-... finding ways to balance and, and still study while also doing content.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, so what, you're able to do both?
- ABAndrea Botez
Eh, that's the hard thing. I was getting very irritated with content because I'm very competitive and I don't like playing chess if I'm losing. And if you're talking and entertaining, you're gonna be losing more games than winning. So then I started doing more training streams where I'd bring on my coach. And, uh, one of the things that I wanted to add to Alex's training repertoire, so I do, I would do daily puzzles every time, um, I'm streaming, which helped me a lot, even if it's like there's this thing on chess.com called Puzzle Rush where you have three minutes and you just do puzzle after puzzle where they get incrementally harder. Um, and it's just a really good way to build your pattern recognition, especially when you're rusty. So I would do that til I hit a high score and I wouldn't play any blitz until I hit the score that I want. Um, but that's kind of more like the fun part of chess studying. Um, the very important one is actually analyzing your losses in your tournament games. And first you sit and you look through your mistake yourself and try to see if you can find the better moves, and then that's when you would check over with the computer to see if you're right. Um, so game analysis is also very important, which I try to do.
- LFLex Fridman
I remember, to give a shout-out, I listened to a couple of episodes of the Perpetual Chess Podcast, which is pre- pretty good. But one, with the, whatever I listened to, I remember the per- it's, um, I think they really focus on like teaching people how t-
- ABAndrea Botez
How to train?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. How to play, how to train. All that kind of stuff. Uh, they, they do like, uh, yeah, I'm looking now, adult improver. So basically, like how do regular noobs get better at chess?
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Uh, one of the things they-
- ABAndrea Botez
Cool, it's a podcast.
- LFLex Fridman
... one of the person that said, I think he was the grandmaster, but he said, uh, "To maximize the amount of time you spend every day of, like..." basically as you were saying, like, suffering.
- ABAndrea Botez
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
So, like, you, it's not about the, like, you should be thinking, you should be doing calculating. So it's the opposite of what Magnus said. Like, you should be doing a lot of time, it doesn't matter if, what the puzzle is or whatever the hell you're doing, but you should be, like, doing that difficult calculation. That's how you get better.
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah. It, it really depends what you're training. 'Cause I used to think the same, but it depends what you're weaker at. 'Cause if you're doing the really difficult puzzles, you're training for, like, visualization and calculating more moves ahead than you typically would. Which maybe you wouldn't get into that as often in a regular game, because typically you run into, like, three to four tactics, which are actually the easier and more fun ones to solve. So really depends.
- ABAlexandra Botez
And on top of that, as a hobbyist, your motivation is very different than when you're playing from a young age and have pretty high competitive ambition. And a lot of people who are new to chess, you could basically work on anything and still improve.
- LFLex Fridman
Right.
- ABAlexandra Botez
So if you're focusing on something you like, you're probably gonna stick to it more and be more consistent, which I think is more helpful long term.
- 1:10:03 – 1:13:22
Losing
- ABAlexandra Botez
- LFLex Fridman
What was the most embarrassing loss of your career?
- ABAlexandra Botez
I had so many flashbacks, but I'm so glad it's a question for Andrea. (laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
I like that you specified. You know, it's funny 'cause-
- LFLex Fridman
I... (laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
I mean, because you said you're so competitive, and like-
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah. No, no, no.
- LFLex Fridman
... I c- I could tell just even from the way you said it that it, like, you hate losing.
- ABAndrea Botez
I, yeah. I mean, that was the reason I hated chess in high school, 'cause it'd always be like... But, but okay, there's many traumatizing loses whereas you feel like you're top three, you're running for first, and then you throw a game you shouldn't... But, and this shouldn't hurt my ego as much as it does, um, but it's always kids, or when I was a high school girl, it's the younger boys who are really cocky.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- ABAndrea Botez
And when they win, they start rubbing it in your face, and they're yawning and looking around when, like, 90% of the game you were destroying them and you had this one tiny mistake, and now their ego's huge. Um, but I'll never forget, I was playing, like, for a chess scholarship, um, and I was, it was tie-breaker for first, and I think I lost to a 12-year-old girl who couldn't even use the scholarship. But she beat me in one first place and she got some other prize. Um, so yeah, it was losing to that little girl-
- LFLex Fridman
You, you- (laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
... who's literally, like, 2300 now, so makes sense.
- LFLex Fridman
Right. You keep telling yourself that.
- ABAndrea Botez
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
What do you think Kas- What do you, what do you, do you think Kasparov was feeling that when he was playing 13-year-old Magnus? Like-
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
... why?
- ABAndrea Botez
As, as much as it's a beauty of the sport that any age can be brilliant, any demographic, anything, um, I feel like when you're adult and you're paired against a kid, it's just hard not to let it get to y- And it depends. Maybe if they're a really sweet kid, but most of the times-
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- ABAndrea Botez
... I play kids, they're just really arrogant. And, but I don't think they do it intentionally, 'cause they're kids.
- LFLex Fridman
I mean, there is a certain etiquette thing where, like, like you say, yawning and in general. Like, it's not, it's-
- ABAndrea Botez
Yeah. When they're kids, there's no etiquette.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. Yeah.
- ABAndrea Botez
They don't care.
- ABAlexandra Botez
Yeah. The kids traumatize me too. I was playing in Vegas-
- ABAndrea Botez
(laughs)
- ABAlexandra Botez
... and it was not even my opponent, it was the board next to me. And the kid was at least 10 years old, may- 12 max, and he was playing against an adult.
- ABAndrea Botez
(laughs)
Episode duration: 2:35:37
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