Chris Duffin: The Mad Scientist of Strength | Lex Fridman Podcast #207

1. 0:00 – 1:28

   Introduction

   1. LFLex Fridman0:00

      The following is a conversation with Chris Duffin, the mad scientist of strength. He's one of the strongest people in the world, but is also an engineer of some of the most innovative strength equipment I've ever seen. Check out his company, Kabuki Strength. He's the only person who squatted and deadlifted 1,000 pounds for multiple reps, and achieved many other amazing feats of strength. He has lived one hell of a life of hardship and triumph, as he writes about in his book called The Eagle and the Dragon. Quick mention of our sponsors: Headspace, Magic Spoon, Sun Basket, and Ladder. Check them out in the description to support this podcast. As a side note, let me say that I was always a fan of strength, both power lifting and Olympic weightlifting, both as a fan and practitioner. Mostly, I'm a fan of people who are willing to put in years of hard work towards finding out what the limits of their body is, and then smashing past those limits, people like Chris Duffin, or on the Olympic weightlifting side, people like Dmitry Klokov. That guy's great. This is why I love watching the Olympics, both the heartbreaks and the triumphs. They all reveal the incredible heights that the human mind and the human body can reach. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast, and here is my conversation with Chris Duffin.

2. 1:28 – 8:10

   Performing feats of strength

   1. LFLex Fridman1:28

      You've been a part of several incredible feats of strength. Which was the hardest, or maybe one you're most proud of?

   2. CDChris Duffin1:37

      Definitely the one I'm most proud of is that journey for the, the grand goals. It was, like, a five-year scope that I chased this, and so when you think about training, it took more than five years. Obviously, by that point, I'd been training for over 25 years. But it makes me pr- I mean, there was three distinct things that I wanted to accomplish out of this, so it was really thought out. Um, and this was kind of my exit pro- from being a, a competitive lifter.

   3. LFLex Fridman2:05

      Mm-hmm.

   4. CDChris Duffin2:06

      And basically saying, "Hey, I'm gonna be, you know, an Instagram lifter, an e- uh, exhibition lifter, a whatever." I've done this for 16 years. I was number one in the world for, like, eight years straight, all-time world records, and I'm like, "I'm not gonna do that anymore." What I want to do is just something deep down to me that is really important. And there's three things that were driving this, and this is a five-year journey that I, that I went through to do this. I really wanted to showcase that you could do something that is well beyond the scope of what people think is humanly possible. So just this inspiration thing, this grand, over-the-top, like if you set your mind to a single-minded goal, you can go so much further. And I didn't even say what the goal was upfront, because it was so far out there I would've been laughed at. And that's, I- I- I think big goals should be kept pretty damn close-

   5. LFLex Fridman2:59

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CDChris Duffin2:59

      ... uh, to start with, for that reason too. Um, but, and then the second piece was to, to, to walk the walk. To show, like, the principles of what I believed in around human movement. Um, the ability to manage and control the spinal mechanics and the output that can have on the body. And so I wanted to take the two most basic movements that every able-bodied person should be able to do. So fundamental movement patterns. The squat, which is, like, in the developmental approaches, around nine months as a baby from a developmental kinesiology, uh, standpoint, and-

   7. LFLex Fridman3:31

      (laughs) .

   8. CDChris Duffin3:31

      ... a really basic pattern that m- every able-bodied person should be able to master. The other one being the hip hinge, being able to pick something up off the ground. A deadlift.

   9. LFLex Fridman3:39

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CDChris Duffin3:40

       And I wanted to do those two, not just one, because I wanted to show the principles, that I wasn't, uh, built for one. I wasn't a specialist because of my lever links, torso links, all that, any outliers, because nobody had ever done a 1,000-pound squat, so this is it, is ... and 1,000-pound deadlift. It was outside of the scope of what anybody's ... There's like half a dozen people that have done one or the other, but nobody's ever done both. And I wanted to do something unique. I wanted to do them, not only do it, but do 'em for reps, to leave literally no question out there, and there's no competition for that. Uh, so it was, "This is what I'm gonna go do." And, uh, to pull it off, I had some past issues with my elbows and stuff that I couldn't work around, so I had to wear, uh, straps, which was another reason I did- couldn't do it in the competition setting. Um, so the first year I worked up and I did 1,002-pound deadlift. We, plates were weighed afterwards, it was a couple, little bit over. And I did it for almost three reps, and that still stands as Guinness World Record, the- just the one rep does-

   11. LFLex Fridman4:52

       (laughs) .

   12. CDChris Duffin4:53

       ... is the most weight ever sumo deadlifted. And one other person has deadlifted 1,000 for reps at this point, and that was, uh, Thor Bjornsson, uh, from Game of Thrones. He's done 1,000 for a double as well, so.

   13. LFLex Fridman5:04

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CDChris Duffin5:05

       Then the next four years ... And I did a bunch of feats of strength on the way, but it was all about building that axial loading capacity, the strength that ... 'Cause now I'm moving the weight from my hands up to my shoulders.

   15. LFLex Fridman5:16

       Mm-hmm.

   16. CDChris Duffin5:16

       And so to do it for reps is, like, so much harder than a single. Like, 5 to 10 seconds versus 30-plus seconds to be able to buffer and manage all that, with that kind of load, is just crazy, so.

   17. LFLex Fridman5:31

       It's literally about the duration that your body is carrying the load.

   18. CDChris Duffin5:34

       Yeah, that's a big part of it. Yeah. Because you have to ... You're using the, the resource of the diaphragm for stabilization, and so it, it's also responsible for respiration and all this other stuff, so even when you're not squatting, you've got to be handling those loads.

   19. LFLex Fridman5:48

       Just holding that weight is fascinating. It's like, it's fascinating that the human body can do that, can-... can maintain that structure, just everything working together, that the biology, the skeletal structure, the, the musculature on top of that can hold the weight.

   20. CDChris Duffin6:04

       Yeah.

   21. LFLex Fridman6:05

       It's fascinating to watch.

   22. CDChris Duffin6:06

       Everything is very intentful about positioning and how you're creating pressure and all that sort of stuff, especially for me. So when I mention that half a dozen people have squatted it and half a dozen people have deadlifted it, you understand those people all weigh 380 to 440 pounds.

   23. LFLex Fridman6:21

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CDChris Duffin6:21

       I weighed 265 to 285, depending on the, where I was between the two. Uh, so there's that as well, right? So big, big difference. And, uh, over the course of that, I did a bu- a lot of other s- feats of strength that fit in that, uh, capacity, and we can skip over those, but that was hugely invested as far as, you know, (laughs) what I put into being able to accomplish that. 'Cause it's, it's over the top, which means the other stuff had to, to shift and I had to learn so- like, there's so many things that came into place to pull that off. And so yeah, last March, two days before the world shut down, I did it. It was supposed to be at the largest equipment exhibition in the world, down in San Diego, uh, as an event, and that got shut down a week beforehand obviously, so we moved to, "Let's do it at my gym and invite people." And that was on a Saturday, and Thursday or Friday they limited it to 25 people for gatherings. I did it on Saturday, and then Monday everything shut down.

   25. LFLex Fridman7:17

       (laughs) Wow.

   26. CDChris Duffin7:18

       So it was kind of surreal for-

   27. LFLex Fridman7:19

       Yeah.

   28. CDChris Duffin7:19

       ... timing-wise, right? And so if I hadn't done it, it woulda never got done.

   29. LFLex Fridman7:23

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CDChris Duffin7:24

       Like, 'cause I, I'd pushed to the limit. I couldn't come back and do it. It was at the total limitation of my capabilities, so-
3. 8:10 – 11:01

   What does it take to lift 1000 lbs for reps?

   1. CDChris Duffin8:10

   2. LFLex Fridman8:10

      So your heart was in this journey, but also your mind. It's just, you're like a scholar of strength, a scientist of strength, an engineer of strength. For reps, do 1,000 pounds squat and deadlift. Let's first talk through the actual day you did it. Wha- what does it take to lift that much for reps?

   3. CDChris Duffin8:32

      The day of is really easy. (laughs)

   4. LFLex Fridman8:36

      (laughs) Really?

   5. CDChris Duffin8:37

      The, the lift itself, other than a few seconds, is really easy and not challenging. People always ask me, "What was it like? How beat up were you after that in the deadlift?" And the simple fact is, it was easy. The work to get there was horrendous, so.

   6. LFLex Fridman8:56

      So even the psychology of the day, you weren't-

   7. CDChris Duffin8:59

      E-

   8. LFLex Fridman8:59

      There was not a fear, there was not a nervousness, there was not a doubt in your mind?

   9. CDChris Duffin9:03

      Uh, there were certainly doubts on that day, um, from some training history. So there was some major breaks to my confidence in the couple months leading up, where I had issues with passing out under the bar.

   10. LFLex Fridman9:17

       Yeah.

   11. CDChris Duffin9:17

       So completely losing consciousness, and this was on weight less than 1,000 pounds even. So that was like all this buildup and me going, "What if?"

   12. LFLex Fridman9:28

       Yeah.

   13. CDChris Duffin9:28

       "What if it ... I think I have this resolved, but what if I get up there and I can't even do a rep? How embarrassing will this be that I've been talking about this and planning for this for so long?" But outside of that, I knew I could do it. In fact, I wanted to do even more, even up to the, the second rep. Training is about, uh, you know, working into a fatigued state, so you're building, uh, an amount of fatigue in your system, and then when you let off of it, that's when you get a compensation, and that's how you stair step training. This is periodization. But leading into a big event, you're accumulating this massive amount of fatigue. And so I was performing at a level that I could do it, and so I knew I was gonna be able to on m- because then you, then you give yourself that window to be able to recover and super compensate and be able to do a little bit more. So like that first rep when I did it, strength-wise, I went, "I can do this for five reps."

   14. LFLex Fridman10:26

       (laughs)

   15. CDChris Duffin10:26

       Like, it went through my head.

   16. LFLex Fridman10:27

       That was the feeling?

   17. CDChris Duffin10:28

       I'm like, I mean, it was easy and it was fast.

   18. LFLex Fridman10:30

       Yeah.

   19. CDChris Duffin10:30

       And it felt, like, amazing. And I'm like, "I'm gonna crush this." And then set, rep two, uh, the realization kicked in as like, "Oh, this is for reps with 1,000 pounds on your back."

   20. LFLex Fridman10:41

       Yeah.

   21. CDChris Duffin10:41

       And you're fatiguing just like ... And then the third one was every last thing I could muster to just finish, I mean, and I just barely got it done, because it's-

   22. LFLex Fridman10:51

       (laughs)

   23. CDChris Duffin10:51

       The strength is like there, but like that capacity-

   24. LFLex Fridman10:54

       Yeah.

   25. CDChris Duffin10:54

       ... to be able to manage all those resources for that amount of time, 'cause it's not just leg strength when we're talking about this stuff,

4. 11:01 – 11:33

   From 500 to 1000lb

   1. CDChris Duffin11:01

      so.

   2. LFLex Fridman11:01

      What does it take to go from the (laughs) from I don't know what nu- like from 500 to 1,000? That feels like a journey that's like exponential. It's mu- it seems like way harder-

   3. CDChris Duffin11:13

      It is. It gets exponentially harder. It does. In the early 2000s, like I said, I started lifting in 1988, um, but my first meet in the early 2000s, my, my max deadlift, uh, was 523 and my first squat was 550, so, uh, for any reference.

   4. LFLex Fridman11:30

      Guys, it's a heck of a journey. Okay.

   5. CDChris Duffin11:31

      It is a journey. (laughs)

5. 11:33 – 22:50

   The mechanics of heavy lifting

   1. LFLex Fridman11:33

      For people that are, like to lift, what should they understand about the difference between doing 500 and 1,000, in terms of the actual lift that you were experiencing that day, in terms of the mechanics, in terms of all the things you have to be, like the neurological adaptation you mentioned, the breathing, the core strength? What, like techniques, like little tricks-

   2. CDChris Duffin11:54

      Mm-hmm.

   3. LFLex Fridman11:54

      ... psychological tricks, anything that kind of stands out to you?

   4. CDChris Duffin11:58

      The level of intent and the opportunity for error are at a different level. So, just the minutest changes of position by quarter inch, half inch can be make or break-

   5. LFLex Fridman12:11

      Wow.

   6. CDChris Duffin12:12

      ... at that level. So these things, everything gets amplified. So the ability to, to start with having the, the pelvis just in the right orientation to the diaphragm before we start initiating what we call the, the eccentric loading of the abdominal cavity to create this intra-abdominal pressure of working against this outward expansion, working against the outer sheath of abdominal, thoracolumbar musculature, obliques, um, causing the co-contraction at the pelvic floor. All this stuff and how you cue that, 'cause you can't think about all this stuff, you need to break it down and distill and practice to, like, it's one simple cue, that we now lock down and control this torso stability. Because this is what these fundamental movements are about, is being able to control our spinal mechanics and then now be able to maintain that while articulating the joints around that through a range of motion. Uh, and then using the main power drivers, so in this instance, both instances it's the, you know, the hip complex, to generate that power and transfer it from how we're rooted and connected to the floor through to the distal end, you know, which would be the barbell on the shoulder. You know, there's couple key concepts. So one is that, what we just talked through is how to actually maintain that stability. So if you have either the diaphragm, so, uh, which is connected at the ribcage, so out of alignment in any position, it needs to be in alignment with the pelvic f- uh, the pelvis. So, those two in opposition. So this is simple engineering here.

   7. LFLex Fridman13:46

      Mm-hmm.

   8. CDChris Duffin13:47

      Um, because what we're gonna do is eccentrically load this. We're gonna use the diaphragm, just like you would in a diaphragm pump-

   9. LFLex Fridman13:54

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CDChris Duffin13:54

       ... where it's gonna press down on all the tissue in there, so we're not using breath.

   11. LFLex Fridman13:58

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CDChris Duffin13:58

       So our breath was actually a lot of times a default pattern when people do that, because they'll bring it into their chest and raise, uh, their ribcage. So, um, what we wanna do is just initiate the diaphragm. Air can be used as well over the top at the final to create just a little bit more downward pressure. But if we have out of alignment there, we have, uh, a sp- a pressure, it leak, where it's gonna be pushed out the front or the rear if you're either in flexion or extension. All right? And then that causes this co-contraction and all this pressure of, of, of, uh, the organs essentially against, outward against all those tissue for the co-contraction, as well as surrounding the spine to be able to stabilize that. And then it puts all the muscles on both sides of the body in what we call the, the, the best length-tension relationship.

   13. LFLex Fridman14:47

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CDChris Duffin14:47

       So, if you think about a curl and we reach our arm out, at the extended length our bicep is not as strong, and then all the way in the curl position it's not as strong. There's somewhere in here that's-

   15. LFLex Fridman14:57

       Yeah.

   16. CDChris Duffin14:57

       ... this control of both. And so when you're sitting there arched or bent over, we have muscles that are past either one of those ranges, so they've got a lot of tension which then will create relaxation on the other side, right? So we wanna have... And all of that needs to be working.

   17. LFLex Fridman15:12

       Mm-hmm.

   18. CDChris Duffin15:12

       And now the next important thing is the foot. So it's actually this connection to the ground and how we're actually using the foot and ankle complex to grab and grip this connection to the ground and elicit, uh, an effect. And because of this and then the everything between will naturally kind of do what it needs to do. So people like to focus on knee, knee position or how far out their hips are or all this other stuff, uh, which is outputs of this. So if we control the torso and the knee, the only thing that can happen from that point is for the squat to happen. All right? Um, so this allows us to use this massive f- you know, the hip complex for all the muscles around that that are built to drive through hip extension to complete the squat. I did actually miss one thing in there. So this torso, people often miss, um, the lat is a spinal stabilizer as well.

   19. LFLex Fridman16:11

       Mm-hmm.

   20. CDChris Duffin16:11

       So that's key in controlling, uh, function at the, the, uh, TL junction, um, which is, um, just above the, the lumbar spine, so kind of right opposite, uh, where your sternum is. And you'll see people kind of roll over sometimes like in an Olympic squat or something like that where they lose position, um, and that's often because they're close grip because you can't engage the lats very well that way and they're pushing up in the bar. But you wanna be able to drive and pull the bar to your center, and that's gonna create and use the lats now to drive and connect the shoulder into this, and we're kind of congressing and tightening all this stuff towards that center to create that entire torso stability. That's why I was using torso stability, not just core stability, uh, in my conversation earlier.

   21. LFLex Fridman16:52

       Torso stability. Okay, so there's all these, like, modules-

   22. CDChris Duffin16:55

       Yeah.

   23. LFLex Fridman16:56

       ... of the body, then connected to the grounding with, like, your feet on the ground. Everything you're speaking to, how do you work each of those modules? Is this over time you kind of develop the feel that ultimately boils down to this one simple cue that you mentioned? Or do you... Can you, like, literally study each particular module in yourself and see how it affects the lift?

   24. CDChris Duffin17:20

       So the best way, and I believe in s- 'cause I hate just, like, people getting out and just doing just movement stuff and not actually adding load. Because we only adapt when there's load. Maybe we can get some, you know, some proprioception or awareness of position and other stuff doing some, some corrective patterns and other stuff. But this is basic physiology, is that there must be an imposed demand for us to have adaptation. And this is mental, this is emotional, this is c- all these areas, um, but...And, and people miss that. So I prefer to be able to look at a person, and this is our, our methodology, and do the assessment in any basic loaded movement. So with developing an eye for that, you can actually see and go, "Okay, we've got a fault pattern right here in the foot," and use a cue or a set of cues, doesn't really matter till we find the one that works, and bring that, and now we know. We want to simplify this. The stuff I just walked through, that sounds really complicated, and it, it is if we try to break down and distill it all, but, like, let's just find the basic stuff that gets us in the range, start working, and then find the next as we add load.

   25. LFLex Fridman18:24

       Mm-hmm.

   26. CDChris Duffin18:25

       Now we find where's our next area that we're starting to fault at? And then go there again next. So this is what we do, what we teach in our educational platform. So we are the only, I believe, everybody wants to do a lot of these, like, uh, assessments-

   27. LFLex Fridman18:39

       Mm-hmm.

   28. CDChris Duffin18:39

       ... you know, on a bench, on a table, body, and, and it's like, no, let's, let's go squat, let's go deadlift. If you do strongman and it's a yoke carry, let's yoke carry, 'cause these are basic human fundamentals. This is not powerlifting.

   29. LFLex Fridman18:48

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CDChris Duffin18:49

       Like, this is how we function. This is why we, we work with 29 of the 30 Major League Baseball teams, and 90% of all professional sports out there, uh, in North America, sorry, although we do some work with Tour de France and other stuff as well. Um, and, uh, North America, I do mean hockey too. Uh... (laughs)
6. 22:50 – 24:44

   What did it feel like to do 1000lbs for reps?

   1. CDChris Duffin22:50

   2. LFLex Fridman22:50

      I want to continue on that line, uh, but first I have to ask, like, how did it feel to accomplish the grand goal?

   3. CDChris Duffin22:56

      Oh my God.

   4. LFLex Fridman22:56

      Okay, when you just stand back-

   5. CDChris Duffin22:59

      Oh my Go-

   6. LFLex Fridman23:00

      ... 1,000 pounds for reps, what'd it feel like?

   7. CDChris Duffin23:04

      Anybody can go watch the video (laughs) online. Um...

   8. LFLex Fridman23:08

      It's well filmed, by the way. Got me all, like, excited. (laughs)

   9. CDChris Duffin23:11

      Oh, well, the, the movie's n- It's so- We actually have the final footage of that, the good footage not posted yet. So it's literally just an Instagram video or a phone video right now, the, the only one online.

   10. LFLex Fridman23:21

       Yeah. Though the r-

   11. CDChris Duffin23:22

       Be-

   12. LFLex Fridman23:22

       It's on your YouTube channel, but it's dramatic with this.

   13. CDChris Duffin23:25

       Yes, it is, yeah.

   14. LFLex Fridman23:25

       (laughs)

   15. CDChris Duffin23:25

       Came out just timed to the music perfectly too-

   16. LFLex Fridman23:28

       Yeah.

   17. CDChris Duffin23:28

       ... which is, I listened to some odd music, um, which there's some reason behind that.

   18. LFLex Fridman23:31

       Okay.

   19. CDChris Duffin23:32

       Um, but, uh-

   20. LFLex Fridman23:33

       (laughs) I liked it though. It was great.

   21. CDChris Duffin23:35

       (laughs) It does, it does work.

   22. LFLex Fridman23:36

       You're saying there's full-length footage

   23. NANarrator23:37

       ... the documentary.

   24. CDChris Duffin23:37

       There's a documentary that's, it's got a little slowed because of COVID, 'cause it's also a backstory of The Eagle and the Dragon, my book-

   25. LFLex Fridman23:44

       Mm-hmm.

   26. CDChris Duffin23:45

       ... about why I do kind of the things that I've done in my life, or that's what I'm assuming the director's working on. I don't really have-

   27. LFLex Fridman23:52

       (laughs)

   28. CDChris Duffin23:52

       ... the control of the movie, right? Uh, but... (laughs)

   29. LFLex Fridman23:56

       Yeah. But, okay, but the video's-

   30. CDChris Duffin23:57

       But okay, h-
7. 24:44 – 29:34

   Achieving peak performance

   1. LFLex Fridman24:44

      there are so many things here. So one, you set an impossible goal and you accomplished it, one. Two is like, on the broader humanity aspect, like how many humans in this world accomplish perfection in a particular direction, uh, required to do this? So like-

   2. CDChris Duffin25:01

      So, and-

   3. LFLex Fridman25:01

      ... you're basically representing like a, one little like s- like little glimmer of excellence of the human spirit.

   4. CDChris Duffin25:10

      There's always more, so understand this. (laughs)

   5. LFLex Fridman25:13

      (laughs)

   6. CDChris Duffin25:15

      This is a basic fundamental.

   7. LFLex Fridman25:16

      Yeah.

   8. CDChris Duffin25:16

      You can always do better.

   9. LFLex Fridman25:18

      Right.

   10. CDChris Duffin25:18

       There is no such thing as perfection.

   11. LFLex Fridman25:20

       Yeah.

   12. CDChris Duffin25:20

       You could always... There is always more.

   13. LFLex Fridman25:23

       Yeah.

   14. CDChris Duffin25:23

       So any time you reach something, any amazing workout or accomplishment in life, could you have put more into it? Could you-

   15. LFLex Fridman25:29

       Yeah.

   16. CDChris Duffin25:29

       Yes. But here's the thing, I left on my terms. I said, "This is it. I'm going to work towards, I've been training for 30 years, I'm going to do this thing that is un-" Like I couldn't even say that I was going to do it years before. "I'm going to do it and then I'm done." And I didn't leave from an injury, I wasn't forced, I wasn't... I left on, I did exactly what I said. I, I, I went to a level that I, I left on my terms, and that's unique, 'cause that's usually not the case. Usually you kind of either taper out or, it doesn't mat- And I'm talking like anything in life in general, right? Like, um, you taper out, you fail, you hurt, like you loo- you lose a j- like something, you know, you roll into retirement, like-

   17. LFLex Fridman26:22

       You've accomplished-

   18. CDChris Duffin26:23

       I did it.

   19. LFLex Fridman26:23

       ... something truly great and you walked away in your own terms. Is there a sadness completing something like that? Because it's, it's in one perspective the greatest thing you'll ever do. And like when you accomplish such a great height, in some sense you have to face your mortality at that point.

   20. CDChris Duffin26:44

       So good question, but it is certainly not the greatest thing that I'll ever do. It's the greatest physical streak I'll ever do.

   21. LFLex Fridman26:50

       There's always more. (laughs)

   22. CDChris Duffin26:51

       The greatest phys- (laughs) yes. Uh, but that was an expression of some of my values-

   23. LFLex Fridman26:59

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CDChris Duffin26:59

       ... and the way that I want to live. It was a way of expressing it. So understanding that is hugely fundamental, because y- we do see so many athletes get to the end of a career and then they fall into a depressive state and struggle with drugs, alcohol, depression, and so on, because they lost how they identified themself and trying to figure out where to turn, what to do, but a big central component of their identity is lost. So I knew that this was one way to express that, and my grand goals have shifted. They're shifted to other outlets that allow me to express that. Like my companies, Kabuki Strength, I'm going to change the face of fitness, as well as all the way through with its integration with clinical medicine and telemedicine, and you know, I got another five years before even people see what I'm working on. I'm five years in right now, 'cause I had to invent equipment, I had to develop methodologies that we're talking, I had to do this stuff, that ground layer wasn't done to create a cohesive ecosystem...

   25. LFLex Fridman28:05

       Mm-hmm.

   26. CDChris Duffin28:05

       ... of training methodology tied to the tools that we're using, to the, to the environment tied to the clinical practice assessment tied to the, the interaction between all those, and how that actually needs to be reframed because so much of this is broken, okay? So-

   27. LFLex Fridman28:19

       (laughs)

   28. CDChris Duffin28:21

       But there is sadness. I won't deny that. And the sadness comes in the singularity of focus that I had at that time, the being in the process. Not necessarily do it, but like having, being in this place that the rest of the world kind of fell away for me in those final phases, to have something so intense, to have a team around me so focused on supporting and like... It took me a couple of months after that squat, I finally one day I woke up and I was like, "Oh, welcome back to the world."

   29. LFLex Fridman28:59

       (laughs)

   30. CDChris Duffin28:59

       Like I was in such a mental fog, like I was... It took me a while to climb out of that, but that, that space, that level of intensity and drive and, and living and being in that space, I, I do miss that. But I also, I can't continue that. I couldn't cont- like there's a point of like you push it so hard, the level to try to go from there is not acceptable for what you, the impacts that'll have on your life or how you want to live. And it was taking away those final like... I, I had to do extreme things and live in an extreme way to, to

8. 29:34 – 32:06

   Importance of Singular Focus

   1. CDChris Duffin29:34

      get there.

   2. LFLex Fridman29:34

      You're just a genius in this whole space of strength and health and bi- uh, almost like biology that, uh, this strength feat is just one representation of that. But this particular strength feat required that kind of singular focus, which I think... I don't know, there's something beautiful about that singular focus that's-

   3. CDChris Duffin29:54

      There is. There is.

   4. LFLex Fridman29:55

      ... often only truly perfected in athletics. I see it with the greatest Olympic athletes as well, the kind of singular focus required there is incredible, and it's somehow-... some of the most beautiful things that humans can do, uh, is achieved in that singularity.

   5. CDChris Duffin30:11

      And it's not just that thing. So that's the thing. It's like, oh, that must be it. When we say singularity of focus, it's not like here's a... because it, it covers a vast array of stuff. Like, I was working with people, uh, you know, all... well, yeah, all around North America. I wouldn't say anybody around the globe. But professionals coming in, working on different aspects of rehab and, and recovery, and like... I, I mean, I'm tapping all sorts of stuff in so many platforms, from nutrition to drugs to, uh, again, like, you know, various, uh, Chinese medicine, you know, as far as, you know-

   6. LFLex Fridman30:47

      But also the humans in your life.

   7. CDChris Duffin30:48

      ... like, like it's so-

   8. LFLex Fridman30:49

      Just love and, and, uh, positivity, and just inspiration, all those kinds of aspects. I mean, you probably would have done much more if you, uh, went outside North America and talked to some Russians, just between you and I.

   9. CDChris Duffin31:01

      (laughs)

   10. LFLex Fridman31:01

       Some Russians-

   11. CDChris Duffin31:02

       Poss- possibly. (laughs) .

   12. LFLex Fridman31:03

       (Laughs) They could, they could give you some, uh... I don't know. Those, those... there's some incredible strength athletes in Eastern Europe.

   13. CDChris Duffin31:09

       Uh, absolutely. Um, I've got, uh, the best one, uh, coming, uh, in September, uh, to get fixed, so.

   14. LFLex Fridman31:15

       What do you mean by fixed?

   15. CDChris Duffin31:17

       So I'm not sure what his particular issues are, but, uh, he has held the all-time world record repeatedly for a long time, and, uh, he hasn't competed for some time, and he just reached out saying he would like to come and have me take a look and see if I can get him fixed because he needs to return.

   16. LFLex Fridman31:31

       Oh, so... Okay, so it's more injury centric versus like form and, uh, fundamental centric. A combination of everything.

   17. CDChris Duffin31:38

       Everybody always wants to focus on the output, how do you, how do you give me the fix for that, but-

   18. LFLex Fridman31:42

       Yeah.

   19. CDChris Duffin31:42

       ... it ties right back into all those other things.

   20. LFLex Fridman31:45

       (laughs)

   21. CDChris Duffin31:45

       Right? So, um, but yeah. The Eastern, the Eastern bloc continued to be a dominant force, uh, in regards to, uh, athletics and strength athletes, without a doubt. Some of my big rivals in my competitive days were... That's, that's who it was. (laughs)

   22. LFLex Fridman32:01

       Rivalry brings out the best in us. Can you tell me the story of your childhood?

   23. CDChris Duffin32:05

       It's definitely

9. 32:06 – 44:55

   Chris's childhood

   1. CDChris Duffin32:06

      outside the scope of the norm. Well, today. Maybe not 150 or 200 years ago.

   2. LFLex Fridman32:10

      (laughs)

   3. CDChris Duffin32:11

      But, (laughs) uh, my parents, highly intelligent, you know, people coming out of the Bay Area. My mom was, you know, going to school to be a chemical engineer. She was a top, top student athlete, graduated of her school. My father was a member of Mensa, and my stepfather was just a genius, but not able to really function in society. But my mom was... you know, she had some demons and some other stuff, and just... she just said one day, she's like, "I just don't want to be part of society." She still isn't. (laughs) Uh, lives out in the desert, but, uh, has her minds. But she wanted to figure out a way to make a life outside of that. And so that's where we ended up, is up in the mountains in Northern California, and a lot of that was, you know, them trying to get into successfully growing marijuana, which back in that... you know, it wasn't legal back then, highly illegal. And in fact, those areas were... some of the areas where we lived were quite dangerous. So there's a documentary, um, Murder Mountain, that came out recently. If you watch that, you'll tie into my book, uh, just the understanding of wh- the stuff that I was talking about dealing with serial killers, human trafficking, police corruption, uh, murderers. Like, just how real that stuff is if it doesn't capture you from the book, okay?

   4. LFLex Fridman33:35

      The book, by the way, is The Eagle and The Dragon.

   5. CDChris Duffin33:37

      Yep. Thank you. (laughs) .

   6. LFLex Fridman33:39

      (laughs) . It's a great one.

   7. CDChris Duffin33:40

      Yeah, yeah. I'm a terrible salesperson, uh, like I told you.

   8. LFLex Fridman33:42

      Yeah. Oh.

   9. CDChris Duffin33:42

      So, uh... (laughs)

   10. LFLex Fridman33:44

       But a good, uh... it's a good title. I don't know if you came up with it, but, uh-

   11. CDChris Duffin33:47

       I did, yeah.

   12. LFLex Fridman33:49

       So yeah, we'll talk about that.

   13. CDChris Duffin33:50

       So-

   14. LFLex Fridman33:50

       Anyway.

   15. CDChris Duffin33:50

       We're living by a, a stream, you know, off a meadow. There's no roads into where you have to hike in. And we've got beams lashed into the trees up above us because that's where our bedding is 'cause there's rattlesnake dens all around, and six years old, I'm being taught how to capture and handle live rattlesnakes because that's what I need to do to be safe. And you can imagine, six years old, sitting there with a live rattlesnake in your hand, grabbing it, you know, by the side of the head, controlling so it can't, can't bite you, and it's just wrapping itself around your arm, and you're staring. And like its only intent is... right then, is to kill you.

   16. LFLex Fridman34:28

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CDChris Duffin34:28

       Like, that's it, right? Um, you, you wanna take a bath, it's filling up the jug in the stream and setting it out on the rocks during the, during the sun so you dump it over your head, and... You know, not all the living was that way. Hmm, you know? Good part was similar to that, tent living, living in a 16-foot trailer with a family of six, which is not much bigger than the space that we're sitting here. Um, so, and we're talking hard winters with feet of snow on the ground, nowhere to go. Um, I'm living in the back of the, the pickup truck in a... just a standard sleeping bag that we get from the Salvation Army, not the s- not the Below Zero, so I'm, uh... I'm, I'm not sleeping well. There's living in homes that were maybe, uh, condemned. There's no, no doors even on them, no electricity or running water, or one or the other, or both, and sometimes a little bit better. By the high time we got to high school, uh, we had a mobile home, so... My stepfather had won a disability payment 'cause he had a broken arm that whole time, uh, from a accident a long time ago, and finally got, uh, an award and got a down payment on this mobile home that didn't have, again, doors on the inside. It did have running water, did have electricity, didn't have a kitchen. You know, the windows would, you know, crank close and open, but they wouldn't close all the way, so they'll trim them in with, uh, plastic to be able to, uh, try to protect from the elements. That was my environment, like, learning how to forage for mushrooms. I mean, there's summers I would send... you know, my parents would be out... they were in the drug trade earlier. We got taken by the, by the police and put into foster care for, for a while, which ties into some of the stories with human trafficking, and honestly, I... it's in my book, but it's really hard for me to...... talk about that, uh, stuff, um, and obviously not all that's in the book. So, um, but they got us back and we moved to, to Oregon, and they stayed out of the drug trade from that time to ensure that they didn't lose us again. But quickly, we kind of fell back into the same thing, so at that point it was learning about geology and starting to do mining and firewood cutting, but mostly the mining 'cause Pat's broken arm, chainsaw made a little tough.

   18. LFLex Fridman36:40

       I- if you remember just the sequence of moments, do you, um, are you haunted by the, the darker moments of your childhood? Do you remember moments of simple joy and happiness?

   19. CDChris Duffin36:53

       Outside of the living around dangerous people and the interactions that came from that, we were a family. Like, we were a cohesive unit battling against the world together. We spent all our time together, work, play, I was there. I was helping raise my, my siblings, or I was working with them and, you know, it was a constant. Like I said, we were very physically active, so, you know, I had that in my upbringing. Um, plug for my shoe company, Barefoot.

   20. LFLex Fridman37:23

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CDChris Duffin37:24

       B-E-A-R.

   22. LFLex Fridman37:25

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CDChris Duffin37:25

       I ran around the wilderness in bare feet all the time, you know, but, it- it was... I had a lot of great moments, and I'm thankful for a lot of that childhood once we take out the trauma and the other stuff associated with it, right? And so, the connection that I have with my sisters, um, is, is, is huge, um, that goes a bit further t- 'cause I am kind of like a, a little bit of a father figure because I was at home raising them and then later I took custody of them, uh, while I was going to school because the environment at home deteriorated further. Their stepfa- stepfather, like I said, was... he wasn't capable of managing life, and, uh, my mom had a mental breakdown and took off to Montana, and he descended into madness even worse. Uh, actually took my, my 13-year-old sister and kicked her out in the middle of winter, couple feet of snow on the ground because he thought she stole his favorite cereal bowl, um, type. So yeah, that's when I t- took in and, uh, was going to college, putting myself through college, and I started taking custody of my sisters and raising them, so. Anyway, we're still, like, very, very tight family. Um, it took... there was a few years later in life, like, that the connection with my mother was kind of broken. Um, I didn't speak to her for years because of her basically abandoning my sisters and me having to come in. But that, that, we've worked through that as best we can.

   24. LFLex Fridman38:51

       So you... anger on your part?

   25. CDChris Duffin38:53

       It wasn't... there might have been some anger. Um-

   26. LFLex Fridman38:57

       Did you always love her?

   27. CDChris Duffin38:58

       Yes, and I still do, and I'm so... she's taught me basically everything I know about strength and perseverance, and living life on your terms, and being able to, to create that. And so much of what I am is from that, right? We've all had to learn to be okay with the way she is because she is just blunt, but, you know, she's the one that figured out that the human trafficking situation and got, uh, got the DA involved, and got all the... uh, uh, she's the one that... (sighs) I've learned a lot from her.

   28. LFLex Fridman39:40

       (laughs)

   29. CDChris Duffin39:40

       And, uh-

   30. LFLex Fridman39:41

       Did you inherit some of the demons?
10. 44:55 – 52:39

    The Eagle and the Dragon: A Story of Strength and Reinvention

    1. LFLex Fridman44:55

       Y- your book is titled The Eagle & Dragon. Uh, what do the eagle and the dragon symbolize?

    2. CDChris Duffin45:02

       They're pretty big symbols for me. In fact, it covers my entire body as a tattoo. So the first one I had done at around 19 years old. And so this is... Or started at 19. Uh, it's an, uh, an eagle that covers my entire front, s- you know, my stomach, ribcage, and, and one that was on my back that covered most of my back. And there's chain at the, uh, well, at the claw I guess.

    3. LFLex Fridman45:27

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CDChris Duffin45:28

       Uh, and the chain wraps down around and it attaches to, to my ankle, and there's a shackle there. And so this was something that I had done at that age because it was, to me, it was a representation of your potential, your strengths, your abilities, that you can fly to whatever height that you want in this world. The only thing holding you back at the end of the day is yourself. And this was... I was, I hadn't necessarily accomplished a whole lot at that time. I mean, I was valedictorian for high school, small high school. (laughs)

    5. LFLex Fridman46:02

       (laughs)

    6. CDChris Duffin46:02

       Does that even count? Uh, I was a state level wrestler. This was my belief. And-

    7. LFLex Fridman46:09

       You, you sensed that there was a potential in you, and the only thing that could, uh, stop you from realizing that potential was yourself.

    8. CDChris Duffin46:15

       That's right.

    9. LFLex Fridman46:16

       That's a heck of a tattoo to get, by the way, at 19. But th- (laughs)

    10. CDChris Duffin46:21

        Yeah. (laughs) About 40 hours went into that thing.

    11. LFLex Fridman46:24

        It shows you got some guts.

    12. CDChris Duffin46:26

        And then the next tattoo... So I only (laughs) have two, uh, I had done in 2015, 2016, uh, when I... So at this point in my life, so I had done that. I had flown to whatever heights, right? So I had, I had proven to myself, and, and maybe done what I thought I needed to do to show the world that this poor kid from the sticks, this, this kid growing up in the mountains with nothing could achieve the American dream. I was a corporate executive, sought after, that I'd come in, I'd fix companies, I'd turn around and prep them for sale. I'd take a company and grow it from a, a regional, to a national, to a global presence. I did this in the automotive manufacturing, aerospace manufacturing, high tech, heavy industry. Uh, and, uh, I had a house with a white picket fence. I was a successful athlete with (laughs) all-time world records. I owned a gym on the side where I coached people. And, uh, I had a comfortable marriage that everything was hunky-dory with no arguments at home.

    13. LFLex Fridman47:35

        (laughs)

    14. CDChris Duffin47:37

        And, uh, I walked away from all of it. I left everything behind, except for my kids. I wanted to chase what I was meant to do, and chase what I was capable of doing. I wanted to become a better version of myself, but very intentfully. And that's what I did. I sold... I had multiple homes. Sold my homes. (laughs) I cashed in all my retirement that I'd earned for 20, nearly 20 years.... and I lost all that. I leveraged myself millions of dollars of personal debt, so that if I failed there was no way out. Even going back to that old career that I did well, I'd be living in an apartment the rest of my life paying it off. People question, people questioned me at the time because I had a comfortable easy marriage, and I chose to ask for a divorce. And I ended up living in an apartment for a couple years with no income, selling off every last thing that I had except for my two vehicles that I built, and, uh, with my, with my kids.

    15. LFLex Fridman48:56

        Hm.

    16. CDChris Duffin48:56

        And I started my businesses to help people live a better quality of life, to get them out of pain, to help them live better through strength. To realize that stress, demand, those things, they don't have to be the thing that, if you look back, made you have the bad back, made you have the bad deeds. But they do the opposite, they get you out of pain, and then I started work on my book to, to i- to hit on those other things, the mental, the emotional, maybe even spiritual. I don't touch on that one too much in there, but it's all the same. Um, that things that happen around you, to you, like maybe they're bad, can't take away that. But why can't you use what you have of it to become a stronger and better person? To become more resilient, to be able to take the, the things that you don't know that are coming in the future. And so this is very intentful, and that's what the second ... Long winded answer in your question here.

    17. LFLex Fridman49:52

        The dragon.

    18. CDChris Duffin49:53

        The dragon. The dragon is an Ouroboros, and so-

    19. LFLex Fridman49:56

        Yeah.

    20. CDChris Duffin49:57

        ... it is, it circles my entire upper body, my shoulders, my back, my chest, everything is right here, there's this big dragon head and its tail is right there in its mouth, it's eating itself. That may sound a bit graphic or whatever, but it is, it's the eating of the n- old becoming the new. It is the purposeful reinvention of one's self. It is the deciding. Not realizing just your potential, but deciding specifically who you want to be in this fucking world, and becoming that person.

    21. LFLex Fridman50:29

        Can you comment on the p- the value and the power of putting a flame to, you know, (laughs) uh, your old life, your old self? Just destroying all of it as you walk into the new life? You know? Did you have to do that? (laughs)

    22. CDChris Duffin50:47

        I don't recommend this, by the way. Because when you put yourself in no way out-

    23. LFLex Fridman50:52

        Yeah.

    24. CDChris Duffin50:52

        ... there is no way out.

    25. LFLex Fridman50:54

        Yeah.

    26. CDChris Duffin50:54

        Okay? Like, you got to really ... no.

    27. LFLex Fridman51:00

        (laughs)

    28. CDChris Duffin51:01

        But I can be an overconfident individual at times.

    29. LFLex Fridman51:03

        Yeah.

    30. CDChris Duffin51:03

        And, uh, I lived, I lived through extremes. I think it's a great way of actually finding your real values and how you want to live honestly. To chase the having absolutely perfect squat technique, but chase putting every freaking thing that you've got in it, which most people would say those are, those are opposite. Those are diametrically opposed. Um, I wanted a better home life. I wanted to do more in the world through my work. And the burning the bridges mentality is not necessarily, you know, the, the best. There was some temperament in that though, because I, I was not... I was slow to make the shift for a long time because I'd been thinking about doing it, but I was thinking about doing it in a healthcare perspective, I'm gonna go back to school to be a surgeon or a physical therapist or a chiro because that's where like all my research and stuff was in this, this human movement and rehab and recovery. This is the mentors that I've been developing were the best in the world in these things, in these disciplines. Those were my, my friends and, and, uh, but I wasn't able to compromise my family's certain quality of life. I wanted to, to keep this. It was, it was slow and hard for me to make that transition, but I didn't do it until I had a platform built enough that those first few years I did have an income, I was able to make enough from the business until it grew so fast that I needed, so much more needed to come in. The living in the apartment piece and doing all that, that was actually a couple years into, uh, into that process, maybe like two years.

11. 52:39 – 59:10

    Lex on business

    1. LFLex Fridman52:39

       Mm-hmm.

    2. CDChris Duffin52:39

       Uh-

    3. LFLex Fridman52:40

       Oh, I'm with you on that. 'cause I'd, I'm actually going through that very process now. Uh, I put-

    4. CDChris Duffin52:44

       It-

    5. LFLex Fridman52:44

       I put everything, I quit everything, gave away everything, and starting anew, and uh, unfortunately or fortunately this podcast somehow became quite, um, popular. So it's getting in m- in the way of my burning everything to the ground. (laughs)

    6. CDChris Duffin53:01

       (laughs)

    7. LFLex Fridman53:01

       But in that it's a source of joy. But the main thing I'm after is, uh, the similar project as you, is building a business.

    8. CDChris Duffin53:09

       Sense of joy. So this, this is the point I want to drive home right now. Right now. 'Cause when I said burn, I learned that burning the bridges works, because that's how I had to succeed when I was earlier. The bridges weren't burnt, they didn't exist. There was no couch to go home to, there was no, there was no fallback plan. And it forced me and gave me the confidence to know that I could pull it off. But I don't encourage people because there's so much out there of this hustle porn and other stuff going, "Just grind, just go after it, get in it. Start your, like, you'll get there." And it's all about the output. To make money, to be somebody, to do this, and I'll tell you what, that is some short term motivation right there. I feel like dropping a few swear words but, um-

    9. LFLex Fridman53:55

       (laughs)

    10. CDChris Duffin53:55

        This is-

    11. LFLex Fridman53:56

        You're always welcome. (laughs)

    12. CDChris Duffin53:57

        This, this is. I've already done a few, so we'll, uh, we'll, uh-

    13. LFLex Fridman54:00

        All right. We'll balance it out. (laughs)

    14. CDChris Duffin54:03

        Uh, that is short term. That is not gonna keep you going. This nee- if you're gonna go that approach, it needs to be because this is your north star. There's gonna be so much hard work, there's gonna be years of just pushing through where you're ques- not only is everybody around you questioning you, and your family's questioning you, you're questioning yourself going, "Man, I don't know if I can pull this off." You're gonna be stressed. You're gonna be pulled to the max. If somebody comes up to me and says, "Should I start a business?" I'm gonna say, "No."... and they'll be, "Oh, you're supposed to motivate me." If you need me to motivate you, this is the wrong damn approach for you. This is gonna be hard.

    15. LFLex Fridman54:40

        Mm-hmm.

    16. CDChris Duffin54:41

        This is gonna be harder than you expect, even with me telling you this. And so it better damn well be worth it. This better be your North fucking star. This better live and be a way for you to be able to articulate or realize those values that you want to live. This isn't something to make money. This is a way for you to live the life and be able to share the values that you have with the world.

    17. LFLex Fridman55:10

        Mm-hmm.

    18. CDChris Duffin55:11

        That's what it is. And if you don't have that, which is gonna give you joy, (laughs) then freaking walk away.

    19. LFLex Fridman55:19

        Yeah.

    20. CDChris Duffin55:20

        This is not some way to make some money and be known.

    21. LFLex Fridman55:23

        I mean, this, this includes both like simple day-to-day joy and also deep meaning, um-

    22. CDChris Duffin55:29

        Exactly.

    23. LFLex Fridman55:29

        ... the whole thing. And then that allows you to overcome all the, all the pain along the way. But I gotta say, I mean, it's a difficult thing is 'cause you run a business. (sighs) Um, this podcast and a lot of things I do research-wise is full of joy, but it's simple. Running a business is hard.

    24. CDChris Duffin55:50

        (laughs)

    25. LFLex Fridman55:50

        (laughs) So, it, it's something that I'm very hesitant about in that s- to almost push back a little bit, I think if I do get the guts to start the business, it will not be because I'm not choosing a more joyful life 'cause I, I'm already truly happy. The reason I'll choose it is because I just can't help it. There's this... I've always had this dream, and I know it's gonna lead to suffering, and I know it's gonna be a life that has less happiness in it, as sad as it is to say.

    26. CDChris Duffin56:26

        But it won't be. It won't be less happiness because we talk about this cup and where you choose to pour it and what-

    27. LFLex Fridman56:35

        Yeah.

    28. CDChris Duffin56:35

        ... you choose to do with it, and when you look back on things, the things that are gonna give you the most joy, the most proud, the things that are gonna stand out in your life that you really remember are gonna be those days.

    29. LFLex Fridman56:47

        Yeah.

    30. CDChris Duffin56:48

        And your... Those years you struggle, you're gonna look back on 10 years later and go, "Fuck."
12. 59:10 – 1:03:51

    The Disciplines of Strength

    1. LFLex Fridman59:10

       Let me talk to you about strength a little bit. First, high level, what are the differences in the different disciplines of strength? So powerlifting we talked about. Maybe just to clarify for people, powerlifting, Olympic lifting, um, just regular gym fitness, bodybuilding, doing curls in front of the mirror for hours like I do, what's, what's the difference between all of these? Oh, and also strongman.

    2. CDChris Duffin59:35

       Every one of those as far as the athletic, uh, disciplines are different qualities. So we wanna think about things as terms of quality, so there's strength, there's power, um, there's endurance, there's the, the ability to, um, be coordinated and athletic. There's all these things and they're different, they're different qualities. So your training as it relates to that is how you cycle in the development of those qualities. What we wanna think about is, the- there's a lot of different frames of thought. Some very, uh, classical, maybe not classical Russian approach 'cause there's a lot of different approach from the Eastern, uh, Bloc, but, uh, one of the ones is developing all the qualities at once, you know, focusing on building those. Uh, more of a periodization effect would be focusing on one quality at a time or one quality while maintaining other qualities and then shifting that around. So it's just gonna be a little different based on what the output is and what the desired... So, like-... power lifting is actually, power is the wrong word, there's actually no power in it, it's just brute, it's, it's strength.

    3. LFLex Fridman1:00:44

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CDChris Duffin1:00:44

       Um, application of force. Um-

    5. LFLex Fridman1:00:47

       And so power-

    6. CDChris Duffin1:00:48

       So Olympic lifting would actually be a better name for powerlifting.

    7. LFLex Fridman1:00:51

       For power? (laughs)

    8. CDChris Duffin1:00:51

       Um, because that is more explosive, uh, development. There's, um, strongman is again, now we're getting a little bit more athletic, it's equipment, uh, based on the implements and stuff that are used, how fast you can move your feet and run, mixed with more endurance, but still very strength-focused.

    9. LFLex Fridman1:01:09

       Mm-hmm.

    10. CDChris Duffin1:01:09

        And there's some things with strongman that is straight, like each one of these is very also f- focused on different genetic dispositions.

    11. LFLex Fridman1:01:17

        Mm-hmm.

    12. CDChris Duffin1:01:18

        So actually if you look at the history of sports, you'll find that they're a lot of times based on different populations. And that sounds like it's very un-PC, but like, uh, Highland games-

    13. LFLex Fridman1:01:28

        (laughs)

    14. CDChris Duffin1:01:28

        ... um, they've got deep, deeper hip sockets that are shallow. So you're gonna see a lot of short hip hinge movements, like the, the caber toss-

    15. LFLex Fridman1:01:35

        Mm-hmm.

    16. CDChris Duffin1:01:35

        ... and things like that. Muay Thai wrestling, they've got a completely different hip joint.

    17. LFLex Fridman1:01:39

        Mm-hmm.

    18. CDChris Duffin1:01:40

        And so strongman itself is gonna be for very large framed individuals. If you're not well over six foot and a large person, you're probably not going to perform well. Very few people at sub six foot have ever done well at strongman just because it's, it's leverage based, right? Um, Olympic lifting. We see consistently in, in Europe, uh, the, the history tells us a high level of hip, uh, and back issues because of the depth that that hip socket has to go in to be able to complete that lift.

    19. LFLex Fridman1:02:11

        Mm-hmm.

    20. CDChris Duffin1:02:11

        And so you're gonna see issues with populations that don't have the ability to do that. So, so we've talked a little bit about training as well as disposition.

    21. LFLex Fridman1:02:20

        Yeah. So, and also crossfit fits into that.

    22. CDChris Duffin1:02:23

        Yep.

    23. LFLex Fridman1:02:23

        That's more like strongman but for a wider variety of bodies, I suppose.

    24. CDChris Duffin1:02:27

        Yep. And definitely more metabolic conditioning focus than the, than the strength aspect of it. Um, and a- a- a- and conditioning is an interesting thing too. So that quality, in my opinion, can be developed a, a lot faster, but kind of peaks much faster as well. So you, where strength we can continue to add and add and add over time, uh, so it's for me, like for conditioning with any strength athlete, I don't like to spend as much time on that. So I'll cycle, uh, the conditioning work for our strength athletes, and then taper that off leading into meets. So the more, uh, metabolic work, that means the more capacity in strength training that you can accomplish, which is the goal.

    25. LFLex Fridman1:03:09

        Mm-hmm.

    26. CDChris Duffin1:03:09

        Um, and recover from, but then as we lead to a competition, we want to spend more time on recovering from that, so we have to pull things out, so we'd pull out less. So like, a typical approach would be like taking a six-week cycle for conditioning and ramping, ramping up over three weeks period's time, then dropping back down again, and ramping up and being slightly offset by like a week or two from your strength peaks.

    27. LFLex Fridman1:03:34

        Mm-hmm.

    28. CDChris Duffin1:03:34

        So that you've actually tapered the week prior in your conditioning work to your strength work, right? And but that way we're not hitting conditioning hard all the time, which is a common, common, uh, misstep that people make is going, "Well, I need conditioning." So they just hammer that at a base level over the top.

    29. LFLex Fridman1:03:49

        Mm-hmm.

    30. CDChris Duffin1:03:49

        Instead of cycling that.

13. 1:03:51 – 1:16:55

    Powerlifting

    1. CDChris Duffin1:03:52

    2. LFLex Fridman1:03:52

       If we talk about power lifting, in terms of regimen, in terms of exercise-

    3. CDChris Duffin1:04:00

       Yeah.

    4. LFLex Fridman1:04:00

       ... in terms of the process, the, what, consistent with what? Is there something to be said about general qualities of the consistency of the regimen required to get strong?

    5. CDChris Duffin1:04:10

       Yes. So let's talk about some training principles as a whole. And this will (laughs) , I think this will break th- down what you're, what you're wanting. The more work that we can fit into a given time, the more progress we're going to make. But that doesn't mean doing the max amount of work possible at any given time.

    6. LFLex Fridman1:04:33

       Mm-hmm.

    7. CDChris Duffin1:04:34

       So we know that we're always to, to, to accomplish more, we're always gonna have more. And there's a certain ceiling that you're gonna hit that you're not gonna be able to add more. So you want to start and get the most amount of results that you can with the least amount of work, because you're gonna have to do it again, like this stair step, over and over, year, decade, so on. So when people, this is a big myth people got, they look at, uh, a Shiko program from Russia or so on, and they go, "I'm gonna follow this." And it's like, that was specifically written for somebody with 20 years of experience that's already built the capacities to be at that level. So it's all about building that work capacity. So how much work can you give in a given time? So now we want to look at some research as it relates to injuries, because injuries are gonna be a big driver over time of what holds you back. So when we talk consistency, training hard for three years, five years, it's gonna be really good, but what we find is a lot of people train really hard for nine months, have to slow back for a month, get back into it, then miss another week because, and so on. They're always like this little nagging, that little nagging. And so it's pretty clear in the research we wanna, we're looking at, when we're stair-stepping this stuff, we're looking at acute and chronic loading. So some fancy words for average and like what's happening right now. So this given week would be our acute, chronic would be what is our average loading, let's say, over the last six months.

    8. LFLex Fridman1:06:05

       Mm-hmm.

    9. CDChris Duffin1:06:06

       Okay? So the more that we can move the chronic loading up, the more work we're getting done on a, as a whole over time, we're gonna get stronger. The way that we build the capacity to do that is having spikes in acute loading.

    10. LFLex Fridman1:06:19

        Mm-hmm.

    11. CDChris Duffin1:06:19

        Okay? Now, the, the, as we do this, the, the acute sp- loading, if it spikes more than 10, maybe 15% from what the chronic loading has been, that accounts for 80% of injuries out there.

    12. LFLex Fridman1:06:37

        Wow.

    13. CDChris Duffin1:06:39

        So, it's not actually the movement quality or this misstep or the other. And it usually happens about four, five, six weeks later. It's like, "Oh, this nagging," and then it gets worse, and then now you gotta, you gotta do some rehab, your training sessions aren't as good and so on. So, now we're starting to look at this, okay, it's like, I wanna do the... I wanna do the least amount of work where I can still progress. I want to be able to have spikes in my weekly demand that don't go above 10 to 15% of what I've been averaging for the last month, but every time I do a spike, my, my average goes up, right? Boom, boom, boom. And then that becomes very particular also when you take, when you do take planned ta- time off. So, a lot of people, uh, training session, maybe they're doing a five-week block with a, a, a, a deload week, or you go on vacation for a week, or any of those things that are, were a downward, what does that do to your average in chronic loading? It brings it down. And then what does the person want to do when they come back? Make up for it.

    14. LFLex Fridman1:07:38

        Mm-hmm.

    15. CDChris Duffin1:07:39

        Now they have a huge spike above. Five weeks later, "We're dealing with, ah, this elbow, this wrist, whatever's kinda bothering me," and now you're not performing as much. So, these are some really fundamental pieces of, of, of, of training. And then, now we can start overlaying the qualities that we're trying to develop-

    16. LFLex Fridman1:07:55

        Mm-hmm.

    17. CDChris Duffin1:07:56

        ... that we were, talked about earlier. So, now it's, let's talk about my deadlift, my 1,000-pound deadlift. We're talking about the training cycles for both, the 1,000, uh, deadlift and squat. So, backing up a year out from the deadlift, knowing I was training at the time heavy deadlifts once a week, and usually it was two of those sessions a month were really heavy and the others weren't. And it's like, "Okay, how can we get this up to where I'm deadlifting twice a week?" Because that's where I wanna be. (laughs) Uh, to be able to accomplish this, I need to be loading about that much with frequency, with a certain volume to be able to accomplish this goal. We're not gonna go through all the math and stuff like that and how that's arrived, but-

    18. LFLex Fridman1:08:34

        But there is math behind it.

    19. CDChris Duffin1:08:35

        ... there is math behind this. And so instead of just, like, "Oh, let's start deadlifting twice a week," no. So, we start and we take the one session that we've got, and we split it, part of it, take part of it away and put it in the second half of the week, so the total volume is still the same. And then, um, we start adding some volume, but I'm doing it at a, off of blocks so that the actual load is, accumulative load is less 'cause I have less range of motion, okay? And then we start building that closer to the ground, closer to the ground, and so on, and now we start getting to where I'm almost doing two sessions, full sessions a week. And then we start adding a little bit of load. And so at my level, this isn't talking about adding another set or another day a week. We're talking, like in my squat, it might be one rep. Instead of doing three sets of three, uh, one week I do two doubles, or two triples then two doubles to give me one more rep. That's it. And so we're doing that from one week to the next, and that's a cycle, training cycle. It might be five, six weeks, and then so on, and then the next one, and slowly bringing that average load up.

    20. LFLex Fridman1:09:47

        Mm-hmm.

    21. CDChris Duffin1:09:47

        So, the last phases of the squat, for example, we took the average loading every week, so my, of my heavy sets. So, once we developed all this stuff over the last year to get to this point, now it is taking and going, "Okay, my average load this week is eight reps at 955 pounds." And then the next week, "Uh, let's get it to 9- 957."

    22. LFLex Fridman1:10:11

        Mm-hmm.

    23. CDChris Duffin1:10:12

        963. And this was pretty aggressive. Working up to where my average load in the final, that, uh, the final was 985 pounds-

    24. LFLex Fridman1:10:19

        Mm-hmm.

    25. CDChris Duffin1:10:20

        ... average load for eight to nine reps. And that's why I said this is the intense part. That was why it was, the day of was much easier.

    26. LFLex Fridman1:10:25

        Mm-hmm.

    27. CDChris Duffin1:10:26

        That, week over week, is pretty brutal. Um, it may not sound, "Oh, you're just squatting." And now let's back it up, let's look at the quality development, so a year out from the squat. Um, obviously I've been working on developing axial load capacity, my capacity to withstand load from top to bottom. So, I like thinking about things in movement vectors. So, this vector is an axial loaded vector, is the hardest to recover from. Uh-

    28. LFLex Fridman1:10:51

        Sorry, what's axial? So like, is deadlift-

    29. CDChris Duffin1:10:53

        Dead-

    30. LFLex Fridman1:10:54

        Are they both?
14. 1:16:55 – 1:26:56

    Role of strength in MMA, BJJ... and baseball

    1. CDChris Duffin1:16:55

       simple.

    2. LFLex Fridman1:16:55

       What role would you say strength has in, uh, sports that combine skill and strength?

    3. CDChris Duffin1:17:01

       Yeah.

    4. LFLex Fridman1:17:01

       So for me personally, maybe I'll just ask it selfishly, which is, uh, uh, grappling, wrestling, MMA.

    5. CDChris Duffin1:17:09

       Yeah. How about I start with baseball? (laughs)

    6. LFLex Fridman1:17:13

       (laughs) Please.

    7. CDChris Duffin1:17:13

       Uh, no. I- I would-

    8. LFLex Fridman1:17:15

       Okay.

    9. CDChris Duffin1:17:15

       I know. The, the sport... Okay. Uh, no.

    10. LFLex Fridman1:17:17

        Like baseball and golf are two of my favorite sports. Oh, no.

    11. CDChris Duffin1:17:22

        S-

    12. LFLex Fridman1:17:22

        I don't, you don't have to be in shape at all to excel at those sports.

    13. CDChris Duffin1:17:25

        Well, ac- well, here's the thing. So-

    14. LFLex Fridman1:17:27

        There we go. (laughs)

    15. CDChris Duffin1:17:27

        It does help.

    16. LFLex Fridman1:17:27

        We're gonna get this argument.

    17. CDChris Duffin1:17:29

        It... Well, I've got a perfect example, because this is, this is why I sell so many transformer bars into the, the Major League Baseball. So they get these people, uh, that come in, these athletes that have been baseball their whole life. It is part of the culture. And so they're great athletes. They've got all the skill. The only thing they have to do is develop a little bit more resilience.

    18. LFLex Fridman1:17:52

        Mm-hmm.

    19. CDChris Duffin1:17:53

        So that they don't have the injury, they, they can push their training a little bit more.

    20. LFLex Fridman1:17:56

        Yeah.

    21. CDChris Duffin1:17:56

        That they can add a little bit more force output and be able to recover from it. So the only thing they've got to do is add some training. But there's no training culture there, so they don't have any experience, which is why they love the transformer bar, because they don't have to worry about teaching the technique. We can actually set the bar on a setting that makes their squats perfect-

    22. LFLex Fridman1:18:14

        Mm-hmm.

    23. CDChris Duffin1:18:14

        ... by cueing all the stuff with actually not having to coach it, 'cause when you're coaching a room full of athletes, it's really hard to teach the nuance of all this and not sure about all that. But that's all that they have to do with these players with a huge level of skill. So once you reach a certain level of skill, adding strength is the o- the only real forward path.

    24. LFLex Fridman1:18:34

        Mm-hmm.

    25. CDChris Duffin1:18:34

        So, so that's the, the, the basic simple answer to that.

    26. LFLex Fridman1:18:38

        Mm-hmm.

    27. CDChris Duffin1:18:39

        Um-

    28. LFLex Fridman1:18:39

        So one of the benefits there being like injury prevention, actually.

    29. CDChris Duffin1:18:42

        Injury prevent- resilience.

    30. LFLex Fridman1:18:43

        Resilience.

Episode duration: 2:42:56