Cristiano Amon: Qualcomm CEO | Lex Fridman Podcast #280

1. 0:00 – 1:26

   Introduction

   1. CACristiano Amon0:00

      ... talking about a exciting thing for an engineer. The same Snapdragon that goes to a phone, and it can go to a Galaxy phone, for example, Samsung, the same, not a special one, went all the way to Mars. You expect to have a full day of battery life. But then you want it to not be sending data in to 10 or 100 megabits, you want gigabits.

   2. LFLex Fridman0:24

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CACristiano Amon0:24

      You want it to be able to have eight core processors. You want to have a GPU with ray tracing. You want to have all of those things that you can only get into, uh, sometimes a desktop PC. To do all of that in your phone is an incredible thing.

   4. LFLex Fridman0:41

      Some people raise concerns about there not being enough studies about the effects of 5G on the human body. Is 5G safe? The following is a conversation with Cristiano Amon, the CEO of Qualcomm, the company that's one of the leaders in the world in the space of mobile communication and computation. That's 2G, 3G, 4G, and 5G that connects billions of phones and the Snapdragon processor and system on a chip that is the brain of most of the premium Android phones in the world. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Cristiano Amon.

2. 1:26 – 2:21

   Football/soccer

   1. LFLex Fridman1:26

      You are originally from Brazil, so let me ask the most important question, the most profound question, the biggest question. Who's the greatest football/soccer player of all time?

   2. CACristiano Amon1:36

      Look, everybody's gonna say Pele, and actually, uh, I was born at the, during the game of Brazil and Italy that Pele, um, gave Brazil the championship. Actually, it was, my dad tells me that, uh, the doctor had a TV on at the delivery room. But, so everybody will say Pele, but I really like Ronaldo. The first, uh-

   3. LFLex Fridman1:59

      The first Ronaldo.

   4. CACristiano Amon1:59

      ... not Ronaldinho, the first Ronaldo. I really like him. That's my favorite player.

   5. LFLex Fridman2:04

      By the way, not everybody would say Pele.

   6. CACristiano Amon2:06

      Yes.

   7. LFLex Fridman2:07

      But we should, we should leave that on the table and, uh, agree to disagree.

   8. CACristiano Amon2:11

      Brazilians will say Pele.

   9. LFLex Fridman2:12

      Yes. (laughs) There's other countries, uh, around that region-

   10. CACristiano Amon2:17

       Absolutely.

   11. LFLex Fridman2:18

       ... that may, may disagree a little bit.

   12. CACristiano Amon2:19

       I'm very aware.

3. 2:21 – 4:52

   Smartphones

   1. CACristiano Amon2:21

   2. LFLex Fridman2:21

      (laughs) Qualcomm is largely responsible for 5G and some of the greatest processors in our smartphones ever built. So we got communication and computation tech that impacts probably billions of people. So if you zoom out, you as a human, we'll look at humans on Earth in general, does it blow your mind that, uh, we have these billions of smartphones communicating and each of them have the computational power, you know, you're talking about 10 billion transistors, that's a million times more than 50 years ago in the best computers in the world. Like, if you just zoom out as a, as a human, does that blow your mind?

   3. CACristiano Amon3:06

      Absolutely. Look, one of the reasons I think I love this company is the, we know that the technology we develop can change the world. And I'll tell you one more thing. Beyond the amount of processing power that you have now in the palm of your hands and there being, everyone in the world is connected with broadband technology, the smartphone is also mankind largest development platform. There's nothing like it.

   4. LFLex Fridman3:29

      So you respect both the hardware and the software.

   5. CACristiano Amon3:32

      Both.

   6. LFLex Fridman3:33

      Both. If aliens were observing Earth over the past 50 to 70 years, how do you think they would describe this, uh, particular, uh, turmoil, fun things going on on the surface of this particular little planet?

   7. CACristiano Amon3:47

      We live in interesting times. Um, at, in one time, we see incredible development of technology for mankind. Just what happened in the last century, uh, you know, the nine, from 1900 to the, uh, 2000 was m- incredible development. Just look, 2000 was 22 years ago, how far we're coming and where we going with technology. It's incredible.

   8. LFLex Fridman4:12

      What do you think they would notice? So there's road networks. There's all kinds of networks. There's, uh, there's lights that keep popping up, cities springing up. Like, from an alien perspective, you're observing this.

   9. CACristiano Amon4:22

      Well, what I'm gonna tell you is you have this contrast of incredible development of technology, but then you see some of the things that are happening right now, which is probably would not expect them to happen, uh, on the 21st century, just what happened in, in Ukraine. So I think, uh, that, that will be a more puzzling question for the aliens, I would imagine.

   10. LFLex Fridman4:42

       The new technology's kind of impressive. Actually, that might not be so puzzling, because that's just human nature revealing itself as it has throughout human history.

   11. CACristiano Amon4:50

       That's correct.

4. 4:52 – 21:09

   5G

   1. CACristiano Amon4:52

   2. LFLex Fridman4:52

      Let's talk about wireless communication. So Qualcomm was instrumental in developing 5G. Now, you were with Qualcomm since the early days, the good old '90s with the 2G, uh, but what is 5G, including sub-6 gigahertz 5G and, and millimeter wave 5G? How does it work? And maybe the most important question is, how will it change the world in the coming years?

   3. CACristiano Amon5:16

      When we set ourselves to develop 5G, and, you know, we look at this every generation of technology had a problem to be solved, right? So you mentioned 2G. 2G challenged, the challenge of CDMA was can we give every person on Earth a cell phone? That was, can you get to a technology that you can basically allow everyone to have a mobile phone? 3G was about the ability to connect that to the internet. I think 4G was broadband, and with 4G was about have the ability for you to have a computer in the palm of your hand. We just talked about that. 5G, the challenge was a little bit different.... is how do we build a technology for a society that is gonna be 100% connected to the cloud? How do we p- provide the technology that is going to be the last smile connectivity for everything? So 5G has, it's basically been designed, eliminate all issues with data congestion. Whether you are in, into a stadium, we talk about soccer, you're in a stadium and everyone should be ability to have access to broadband. So deal with congestion, deal with the fact that not only people, but billions of things need to be connected. Create a technology that for the first time in wireless you could deliver mission critical services. Wireless used to... up to 4G is its best effort. In 5G, it can guarantee that you are connected with the cloud. And then the last point of that is provide this fabric that will allow us as a society to look at things that are not connected and say, "That's the exception." That's why we made a comparison in the early days of 5G that that's gonna be like electricity. Right now, you don't have a discussion about what is the use cases for electricity. You don't talk about that anymore. You just assume it's there, and that's how we think about everything connected to the cloud. That's what 5G is and that's the role of 5G.

   4. LFLex Fridman7:13

      So first of all, everything connected to the cloud is interesting because the space of everything is constantly increasing.

   5. CACristiano Amon7:19

      That is correct.

   6. LFLex Fridman7:19

      You know, I don't think the refrigerator over there, it looks kind of smart, but I don't think it's connected yet, uh, to the cloud. So this includes Internet of Things. What is the full space of everything?

   7. CACristiano Amon7:31

      The full space of everything is it's, uh, maybe going back to where you start defining Qualcomm. Qualcomm is about communications and advanced computers for low power devices. And can we make everything smart, you know? It can ranges from the robot you have right now on the floor to your refrigerator to, to a camera to, uh, uh, you know, machines in manufacturing, uh, to retail, etc. I g- I can give you some examples. When, when we think of something as simple as going to, to the grocery shop, we see technology now with something dis- this stuff we've been working with companies like Walmart, electronic shelf labels, the ability for you to have smart cameras that can look at shelves and can... the camera is smart enough to say some product needs to be replenished. Ability to see what's there, so it's about really providing processor connectivity, artificial intelligence to everything, and, uh, I think that's one of the largest, uh, addressable markets we have-

   8. LFLex Fridman8:40

      (laughs)

   9. CACristiano Amon8:40

      ... for technology because you can't really define everything.

   10. LFLex Fridman8:43

       Right, exactly. It's a nice market 'cause it keeps growing potentially exponentially in speed. Um, what about coverage? So how are we doing on the everything part? So, you know, there is, like I mentioned, sub-6 gigahertz 5G and there's, uh, millimeter wave 5G. So not all 5G is made the same. So there's a speed, there's a, there's a bandwidth thing, and then there's coverage. How many people get to enjoy, um, today, and how does the progress in the next five, 10, 20, 30, 50 years you think looks like in terms of coverage?

   11. CACristiano Amon9:15

       Great topic of conversation. So let's talk about this. When I meet with regulators across the globe-

   12. LFLex Fridman9:22

       Uh-oh.

   13. CACristiano Amon9:22

       ... I, I, I tell them, uh, "Resistance is futile."

   14. LFLex Fridman9:26

       Yeah.

   15. CACristiano Amon9:26

       allocate every spectrum to wireless. Every spectrum needs to be allocated to wireless. The reality is when we start moving from CDMA to OFDMA, we knew that there's... this industry has done a lot to get more bits per hertz, but the reality is, uh, the massive amount of improvements that is required in capacity and in speed, uh, you need more spectrum, you know? There's, there's not so much we can rely on more bits per hertz. You just need more spectrum. And if you look, for example, what carriers since the day 2G era, they participate in different license and auctions and every spectrum they accumulated from 2G or 3G or 4G, all of that, you may be able to get one or two channels max of sub-6, uh, which as a channel is about 100 megahertz or 200 megahertz, and that's it. So we, we need more spectrum. So 5G has been designed to work across every spectrum from the low frequency bands, uh, that's we call the sub-6, but you needed more. You needed to go to the millimeter wave. So that's why 5- 5G is a technology that you can deploy from 450 megahertz as an example, or 600 or 700, uh, all the way to in the 42 gigahertz and that's where millimeter wave comes into the picture. Now, let's now connect this to your question about coverage, um, of 5G. The easiest thing to do, uh, is to deploy 5G in the new spectrum you can get, uh, which is, uh, in the sub-6 you see bands being auctioned across the globe in the 3.5 gigahertz. There's nothing special about the band. It's just the only one that was available because everything else been used for 4G and you can deploy on that going to existing cell towers and just put a new equipment without having to build new towers. But when we go to technologies such as millimeter wave, then you have to build more dense networks, you need to build more stations because the deployment in that case look like a Wi-Fi deployment. It's almost like Wi-Fi access points. When you need to build more stations, you need permits, you need to build fiber, so it takes more time to densify. So what you see happening is coverage has been built fast with sub-6, uh, across the globe. Now the United States also have the sub-6.Uh, so that gets you the coverage very fast. But millimeter wave, it's moving and, uh, uh, if you all will say, for example, Verizon, United States has had a leadership, uh, in building millimeter wave. It takes time. I'll say cities like, uh, uh, Chicago, uh, Manhattan starting to get coverage. It will be a process over a number of years as you build, uh, those different access point type networks, but it's inevitable. There, there's not enough spectrum. So every 5G operators, just a matter of time will have millimeter wave as well.

   16. LFLex Fridman12:35

       Resistance is futile. Okay, so, uh, w- for millimeter wave we need d- density of access points. And what's the biggest resistance for Qualcomm, for human civilization? Is it, uh, politicians, regulators, federal regulators? Is it, uh, individual humans?

   17. CACristiano Amon12:57

       (laughs)

   18. LFLex Fridman12:57

       Is it not enough money from the consumer perspective? Like what... Who is the biggest pain in the butt?

   19. CACristiano Amon13:03

       From a Qualcomm standpoint, but answering the question about what it takes to build all this technology-

   20. LFLex Fridman13:09

       Yes.

   21. CACristiano Amon13:09

       ... I, I think regulators across the board understood the importance of 5G. I have not met a regulator that said it's really important to be late on 5G. I don't think anybody wants to be late on 5G. And as a result, we've seen enormous amount of progress in getting spectrum allocated to 5G. I think the real issue is the time that it takes to build infrastructure. You know, investment in 5G infrastructure, especially millimeter wave, it's like building roads and ports. It, it's critical infrastructure. And those things take time. Like one of the number one obstacle you're gonna hear from operators is site permit. You know, sometimes they have to negotiate municipality by municipality about permits to get new cell sites, but, you know, the networks will be densified and, um, and you're gonna need all of the capacity for the promise of the fully immersive augmented reality that will replace phones and everything being connected 100% of the time.

   22. LFLex Fridman14:05

       This would not be a conversation with a CEO if I did not ask, um, questions that make you nervous. Some people raise concerns about there not being enough studies about the effects of 5G on the human body. Is 5G safe?

   23. CACristiano Amon14:21

       Look, uh, I have a very simple answer, uh, to, to, to this question. As we built new capabilities, such as 5G, power is going down, especially when you think about reducing the number of base stations, the networks becoming more dense. So as you do that, the, the power becomes lower. If your phone-

   24. LFLex Fridman14:48

       Power radiated from each-

   25. CACristiano Amon14:49

       Power radiated from the phone and from the tower. As you get closer to the tower, you don't need that much power to reach the tower. So as, as we move from 4G to 5G, I think we see a reduction in the amount of powers required to close the radio link. Now, also you have a number of organizations, the FCC for example has rigorous, uh, programs, which they do a lot of tests, uh, to validate, uh, you know, the safety of th- those devices. And I think we have... It has been a model for other countries to also to adopt the same things. Uh, cellular's been around for a number of decades now. Uh, I think smartphone is our most beloved device, uh, today. And I, I would argue how it's difficult to answer those questions because you... Uh, but I'll argue that the data to date that we've seen in 3G and 4G, um, you know, has, uh, shown that, uh, uh, a lot of the initial concerns were not valid. We look at 5G, even though it's new, it's just less power. So we look at from, from a physics sta- standpoint.

   26. LFLex Fridman16:01

       So from a physics, from a biology perspective, there's a lot of evidence, there's studies that show that it's not, uh, dangerous, that it is in fact safe. However, the concern that people have is when you scale technology exponentially, um, how will that change human civilization? I mean, that's, doesn't apply to 5G, that applies to every technology. How is... You said smartphone is the most beloved device, but love sometimes hurts. So-

   27. CACristiano Amon16:30

       That's, uh, that's-

   28. LFLex Fridman16:30

       ... the impact on society (laughs) we don't know, and, and there's a little bit of fear. There's both excitement and fear.

   29. CACristiano Amon16:36

       It's a great topic of conversation actually. So, so let me give you my perspective on this. And you started to see some things actually happening right now. So let me step back and let's talk about the fact that we are in a fully interconnected society. That when, when, uh, when you look of the situation today, we talk about smartphones, uh, largest, uh, development platform, uh, so much now of our life, uh, we are connected to, to smartphone, and as a resu- and we are all connected. And we're connected, and then we're building digital twins of everything, right? So, so when you look at that picture, when you look at the picture of this connected society, uh, you started to have the following thoughts, which I think are very healthy, which means... In the same way that in the physical world you are entitled to some rights, you have obligations, and there's a lot of, uh, things that protect your, your integrity. I think as a rule, we're gonna see the society evolving, so those things extend to your digital being, uh, of people and things. And I think it's just natural. It's just natural. Uh, it, it's just a natural path. And you started to see things like that. For example, the Europeans has done, uh, a lot in this area. I would say the Europeans probably ahead in the United States, um, thinking about privacy laws, digital privacies law, most recent, the DMA, the Digital Markets Act, which I think is a great thing. I think we're... We, we believe there's incredible, uh, thought into enable ability to regulate the digital market so that there's innovation and competition, so not, not a single company, uh, can control all the data and then decide, you know, uh...... how things are gonna be work on the digital realm. And even if we think about the potential things like the Metaverse as we're connecting physical and digital spaces. So I think it's a natural evolution. Of course, regulate- regulation and laws always follow technology. But, but the fact that we're, uh, moving to where an interconnected society, there's, there's no going back. Uh, we are a fully interconnected society. But there is opportunity, uh, to think about how the digital twin, uh, should peop- people and governments should think about it so that we get the best of a technology without the, any downside.

   30. LFLex Fridman19:05

       Yeah, so when you say digital twin, that's one of the other things you're excited about, which is the Metaverse, or basically building worlds in the, in the digital space. And you have to start to think about all the basic human rights that transfer from our physical meat vehicles out to the digital copies of ourselves, representations of ourselves. That's really important to think about. The thing you mentioned about regulators that has been, this is me speaking, frustrating is, like you said, they follow technology. So sometimes they don't get the technology at all. So they're very clumsy in writing laws that censor that technology in interesting ways. They mean good, but they can do a lot of unintended damage. Now, both. It's a dance. It's a beautiful dance, but I just wish governments were better dance partners. I just see what they're kind of writing now about regulating social media and, um, platforms like YouTube, and it's just really, really clumsy. They don't understand how machine learning works, how recommender systems work, and I just wish they kinda caught up a little more, because it's really important to be great at regulation. But also, it's important to let companies flourish and embrace this new wave of techno- that, that weird dance, I, I'm more and more learning, looking at public poli- policy, how much positive government can do and how much clumsy negative it can do, unintentionally, just out of sheer incompetence or lack of curiosity about tech. (laughs) That's my rant about regulators.
5. 21:09 – 27:28

   Snapdragon

   1. CACristiano Amon21:09

   2. LFLex Fridman21:10

      Let's talk about one of my favorite topics, Snapdragon. So Snapdragon is a system on a chip. This processor has probably powered billions of smartphones all over its pretty long history now, a decade and a half maybe. Uh, so it's constantly iterating. There's constantly just like a turmoil of beautiful innovations happening. So last year was Snapdragon 888 was the main one, with the five nanometer, and this year's Snapdragon 8 Gen 1. It's a new naming scheme. Okay, what's the sexiest, most beautiful idea or concept to you about Snapdragon? Let's start there.

   3. CACristiano Amon21:48

      The way I would describe it, and I think the reason we have been, uh, successful with it, is to really understand, uh, how, how to build a platform, a single chip, like a single chip, uh, that will have every single capability if you wanna make this smartphone in the palm of your hand, you know, uh, something that has all of your computing needs. And it was the ability to get, from an engineering standpoint, ability to get into a single chip of not only all possible connectivity technology, from cellular, to Wi-Fi, to Bluetooth, to every single constellation of, uh, satellites for position location. But at the same time, you know, a very power efficient, uh, you know, single-threaded, multi-threaded CPU. A GPU for your, uh, all of your graphic demands, gaming, fastest growing segment for gaming is, uh, mobile gaming. An artificial intelligence processor, which we call the neural processor unit, and then a video engine, uh, an, a multimedia engine for every single application, audio, everything. So it's a single chip that has every single computing technology you need in the phone. And what's exciting about it is what we already knew. For example, when you think about camera or computer vision, you see that advancements in this technology now happens in the smartphone first versus additional camera. So the beauty about the Snapdragon is we always have this thing with- within Qualcomm. The phone, it's- it's small. You have to be able to hold it. You're gonna touch your face, so it cannot be hot. Uh, you have to manage thermals. You expect to have a full day of battery life. But then you want it to not be sending data into, uh, 10 or 100 megabits. You want gigabits.

   4. LFLex Fridman23:55

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CACristiano Amon23:55

      You want it to be able to have eight core processors. You want to have a GPU with ray tracing. You want to have all of those things that you can only get into, uh, sometimes a desktop PC. And to do all of that in your phone and be able to be in the leadership position generation after generation is an incredible thing, and we're very proud of that at Qualcomm.

   6. LFLex Fridman24:19

      Yeah, so you have to do the Wi-Fi, 5G, all the w-

   7. CACristiano Amon24:22

      And you have to be good at every one of those technologies.

   8. LFLex Fridman24:24

      All, all of it, and pack it all in. And y- and there's also pressure to make the thing faster and faster and faster, and then there's more and more applications you're supposed to be effortlessly, uh, using. And then you, you mentioned the NPU, GPU, CPU, they have to also dance together somehow, uh, they have to communicate well, share memory or not, depending on what the application is.

   9. CACristiano Amon24:44

      And your battery has to last all day.

   10. LFLex Fridman24:46

       (laughs)

   11. CACristiano Amon24:47

       Yeah. So, so think about that from a company like Qualcomm, we have to be good in each and every one of those technologies. We can't just say, "Oh, we're a CPU company," or, "A GPU company," or, "We're a AI company." We have to do everything.

   12. LFLex Fridman24:59

       What does it take to design a great processor? So design this system on a chip that you mentioned, is there some insight you can provide in this chaos of engineers, designers, leaders, uh, you know, the people that think about how much this is all gonna cost? All, the whole mess of it.

   13. CACristiano Amon25:19

       I'm, of course, very passionate about it. I've been in this company for probably more than 26 years. But, um, I'll, I'll, I'll argue that there are a couple of things that are ingredients for success. So we talk about the fact that we have all those different technologies, they evolve at their own pace, and you have to be good in each one of them, and you're needed then to make them working together. So, so you need to have an engineering organization that's, uh, h- with a co- incredible collaboration culture. Because everybody has to be working. The train is gonna leave the station, every cart needs to be there, right? When it leaves the station, it needs to leave on time, especially in the phone business. You can't change Christmas, you cannot change Black Friday, you cannot change all of the selling seasons, so the phones are gonna launch on time, and every technology needs to be there. The engineer needs to work as one. And we do have that at Qualcomm. The other thing, you have to have incredible, uh, discipline, uh, because, um, you know, those are very complex systems. So in one way, you have to design with quality, um, because, in many cases, we're gonna be ramping production, and even before we have the silicon back, and you have to rely on, on our simulation models, and you have to rely on, on the fact that you design, uh, for commercial applications. That takes, that takes a while to build, and, uh, and, you know, it's probably been the history of our semiconductor business at Qualcomm.

   14. LFLex Fridman26:54

       So you mean like the framework of how many people can use simulation software and all that kind of stuff-

   15. CACristiano Amon26:58

       Mm-hmm.

   16. LFLex Fridman26:59

       ...to build the thing with a hard deadline that you might not even get back from, um, like, manufacture before... (laughs)

   17. CACristiano Amon27:06

       Yeah. Any... No-

   18. LFLex Fridman27:06

       You're not allowed to have any mistakes.

   19. CACristiano Amon27:08

       No wonder our name is Quality Communications, that's-

   20. LFLex Fridman27:11

       Oh, I never even thought about the qual part. Quality. So quality, and there's a bar that's high, and you're not allowed to mess up. I mean, to me, as an engineer, that's exciting. Hard deadlines, um, no room for mistakes, I love it. Super stressful, but I love it.

6. 27:28 – 32:02

   Apple and Google

   1. LFLex Fridman27:28

      Um, so there, there's, uh, a couple of other small companies, um, called Google and Apple. So Google is now using its own chip for the Pixel 6. Apple using as its own. How does Qualcomm out-compete Google and Apple? How does it beat them?

   2. CACristiano Amon27:46

      We don't have to out-compete Google. Actually, if you look at our mobile strategy today, and one thing I was very clear when I became CEO, I think there's a lot of confusion in the market. Our mobile strategy is very clear. We are focused of making Snapdragon synonymous with premium Android experience. That's what Snapdragon is.

   3. LFLex Fridman28:06

      Android.

   4. CACristiano Amon28:06

      Android.

   5. LFLex Fridman28:06

      The phone of the people.

   6. CACristiano Amon28:08

      Yes. Um... (laughs)

   7. LFLex Fridman28:10

      (laughs) I just have a love for Android, and now I'm constantly talking trash to iPhone people. Sorry, go ahead.

   8. CACristiano Amon28:14

      Premium Android experiences.

   9. LFLex Fridman28:16

      Yeah.

   10. CACristiano Amon28:16

       So we do pro- we do produce Snapdragon in multiple tier for every price point, but, you know, every year, you mentioned the, uh, 8 Gen 1, and every year, we provide, you know, the flagship product, and then, and then the other series that is trying to get the best of every possible technology at that time. And it's really focused on enabling the Android ecosystem. So I'll give an example. So you asked me the question, how to compete with Google? It's not about competing with Google. We're the number one enabler of the Google Android ecosystem. And, uh, the largest, largest, the number one customer there is actually Samsung. And if you look what happened to Samsung, Samsung, um, h- I always had, since I, I begane my, began my relationship with them back then, they always had their own chip. They always had their own chip. And, um, and if you'll just look at what happened right now with the Galaxy S22 that just launched, you know, they used to balance their, their business about 50% Qualcomm, they would get the most advanced markets like, uh, the United States and China and Japan and Korea, they would assign to Qualcomm, and then they have their own chip for the markets that they would, would be like more emerging markets, open markets, markets that they have control of the channel because they sell a lot of, uh, appliances and other things. If you look at what happened right now with the S22, uh, 75%, uh, is Qualcomm. And, uh, and then the next large OEMs in Android system are the Chinese ones. Uh, companies like Xiaomi, uh, one of the fastest growing, uh, it was number one in Europe at some point, uh, last year. Then followed by OPPO and OnePlus and vivo. So those are some of the largest Qualcomm customers, and, um, and they actually drive the Android ecosystem. And that's our mobile strategy, and fully aligned with Google and, uh, and it's working. And I will s- you know, um, not to get into a lot of the, uh, investor conversation, but, uh, we're also happy we became, uh...... in- a beneficiary of the shifts that we saw in the marketplace as Huawei, uh, became a smaller OEM as a result of the sanctions. Um, we saw the rise of a lot of the other, uh, OEMs from China, especially for China domestic market, Xiaomi, OPPO, vivo, they moved to the premium category. They're all doing that with Qualcomm. So, uh, we're actually very fortunate and happy with the position we are in mobile business. We do have an Apple relationship. Uh, we provide modem technology, uh, to Apple. Um, it's a multi-year relationship. Apple has been very public that they are, um, investing to develop their own modem. Uh, but the Qualcomm strategy has, has been clear. You know, we're really focused on Snapdragon. You know, not our mobile strategy is not defined by providing a cellular modem to Apple. Our mobile strategy is this that we just talked about it, is about the unique thing of Snapdragon that has every single technology integrated into a single SOC. And, uh-

   11. LFLex Fridman31:30

       It provides a premium experience.

   12. CACristiano Amon31:32

       And that's what we're doing.

   13. LFLex Fridman31:33

       Okay.

   14. CACristiano Amon31:33

       And, uh, focusing on the Android ecosystem.

   15. LFLex Fridman31:37

       I don't know if I can ask you this kind of question. It's like picking your favorite-

   16. CACristiano Amon31:40

       Go ahead.

   17. LFLex Fridman31:41

       ... children or something like this, but what smartphone with a Snapdragon? You mentioned Samsung Galaxy S22, OnePlus, those are phones I personally really enjoy. What phone do you currently use, or do you have multiple phones and you just-

   18. CACristiano Amon31:55

       I do have multiple phones, but I do use, uh, Galaxy S22.

   19. LFLex Fridman31:59

       That's your favorite one? All right. Well, you heard it

7. 32:02 – 43:03

   Future of Qualcomm

   1. LFLex Fridman32:02

      here first, folks. Okay, so excellent. Can Qualcomm also, let's take a brief step away from mobile.

   2. CACristiano Amon32:09

      Yes.

   3. LFLex Fridman32:10

      Can it take on Intel and Apple and other such companies in the laptop and desktop space? So the nature of what a computer is seems to be changing. It's like smartphones, like merging. It's all being a smartphone just with the biggest screen or something like this. So what does the future of that look like?

   4. CACristiano Amon32:26

      Before I answer that question, let me just step back a little bit because, and I'm sure we can, we can talk more about those things. But the, the reality is Qualcomm is changing a lot. And, uh, we use, I know we spend a lot of time talking about 5G and smartphone, the Snapdragon, and I think that has been what had defined Qualcomm for many years. But the reality is even consistent with tech, 5G conversation, which is a technology to connect everything, Qualcomm is also changing. Our technology that was in many cases designed for phones, and we said it in the beginning, connectivity and processing, is going to virtually every industry. And as a result, Qualcomm is really changing with it and expanding to a number of different addressable markets. M- some of those markets is, is the PC, as you talk about it. The, the conversions of mobile and PC. And the reason I'm excited about this, because you see a lot of things happening that bring this right front and center when you think about the future technology. So what we learn with the pandemic is that the number one use case of personal computers is communications. Uh, it is interesting when you think about that. That's the number one use case on a PC today is communications. It's actually funny because in the cellular industry, actually, I'll say, let me step back. In the telecom industry, we've been chasing this killer application of video telephony for decades, right? I remember, uh, back then in the wireline, uh, even before the internet and IP, ISDN, remember those, uh, AT&T desk phones with a little screen and they said, "You can do video telephony." We don't watch that, uh, in, uh, Back to the Future II. Then when we started developing 3G, said, people said, "What's the application for having data to a cell phone?" Oh, video telephony. Then we started doing 4G, and in the beginning, people said, "Well, why do you need all this broadband?" Oh, video telephony. But it took a pandemic to make video telephony the killer application, and that's now the number one (laughs) , uh, use case on a PC. So now think about that for a second. P- personal computers now, they're technologies that people when they were gonna buy a PC, they didn't care much about it and now they do. Camera. Camera, how good is the camera? The audio. Is that connected? How good is the connectivity? Do you have the latest and greatest Wi-Fi and cellular? What's the battery life? Because you're gonna be working from anywhere. Sometimes you're near that, sometimes you're not. So all those things, what's the portability like? So those things started to change how we should think about the PC. But I won't stop there. Let me talk about another trend. So and it, and all come as a result of what we saw in the pandemic. Let's say that you are, you're an engineer in the computer-aided design. You, you have advanced, uh, desktop, uh, computer, or workstation in your office. But you want to work from home some days, so you're not gonna move that to your home. So what do you need to do? You're gonna have to rely on that. You're gonna run that on the cloud. And you're gonna run it on the cloud, you need high bandwidth because you almost wanted the cloud to be, uh, the same as your computer for that use case. That's the 5G on-demand computing use case. They use 5G as almost a link between two computers. But then, you know, CIOs are saying, "Well, my workforce is going home for seven days. I want all the data to be in the cloud." So you look at, for example, Microsoft OneDrive or the ability to collaborate, you need the bandwidth. So the, when you put all of those things together, you start thinking about what is the next generation PC? And that's the opportunity for Qualcomm. I'll just give an example. Uh, back in, uh, uh, Mobile World Congress, uh, recently, Lenovo, they have a line of, uh-... of, uh, enterprise laptops called the ThinkPad. I'm sure you're-

   5. LFLex Fridman36:32

      Uh-huh.

   6. CACristiano Amon36:32

      ... familiar with it.

   7. LFLex Fridman36:33

      Uh-huh.

   8. CACristiano Amon36:34

      So they announced the ThinkPad based on Snapdragon. With 5G on, 28 hours of battery life.

   9. LFLex Fridman36:42

      Oh, wow.

   10. CACristiano Amon36:43

       So, so that's next generation ƒ-

   11. LFLex Fridman36:45

       So just a nice screen with extremely high... Nice screen and keyboard. Uh, and extremely high connectivity to maybe an even more, like, a more powerful machine in the cloud. Something more of the data connecting to the data, connecting to-

   12. CACristiano Amon36:58

       So-

   13. LFLex Fridman36:58

       ... compute, all that kind of stuff.

   14. CACristiano Amon36:59

       You have the camera capabilities, and let me go, uh, one step more. Microsoft talking about some of the other features they're doing now, using on Windows 11, using Snapdragon. Remember, we talk about a Snapdragon has an AI processor inside there. So one of the cool features Microsoft's talking about it is you can be on a Teams call and you can make sure your eyes are looking at the camera, uh, 100%-

   15. LFLex Fridman37:24

       Yeah.

   16. CACristiano Amon37:24

       ... of the time.

   17. LFLex Fridman37:25

       Well, that's an interesting... So they can be talking about that-

   18. CACristiano Amon37:28

       And you do that with AI.

   19. LFLex Fridman37:29

       Yes. That's really tricky to pull off. For example, the reason I'm a huge stickler for doing these in person, these conversations in person, it's really tough to get right, but it's a worthy challenge. So that's where the metaverse hopes to... So like, I just... 'Cause you said the importance of this telephony, of humans connecting, teleporting themselves, getting that right is really difficult 'cause a lot of people hate Zoom meetings. But that doesn't mean you can't improve that experience and get rid of the hate. A lot of people hate talking to their car too because the voice, the natural language processing is terrible, but when it's not, it's a beautiful thing, so getting that right is...

   20. CACristiano Amon38:06

       This is an opportunity, this is an opportunity. Think about it. It starts with the PC making, the PC giving you a better experience for Teams, but then it goes right back into this trend of connecting physical and digital spaces, and all the work we're doing with the metaverse and virtual reality, augmented reality. And the future is, why not call somebody or connect with somebody with a hologram? It's possible.

   21. LFLex Fridman38:30

       And also to mention some increasing amount of intelligence in our cars. So semi-autonomous, autonomous cars, and the interactivity between human and, and car, which are, for me, things that are, uh, really exciting. Let me ask you a big question. So when, when aliens, again, now on the other side, right? And humans destroy themselves through nuclear war centuries from now-

   22. CACristiano Amon38:52

       Let's hope not.

   23. LFLex Fridman38:53

       Let's hope not, but in case, you know, let's just hypothetical thought experiment, and they write a history of, of humanity in the 21st century, uh, what would they remember Qualcomm in the 21st century as a company? Would it be a car company? Would it... Like, think of all the crazy pivots that might happen in the next, like, 50 years. 'Cause, 'cause you're thinking, you said Qualcomm enables all of these things with 5G, and there'll be probably other Gs. It keeps increasing. So basically connectivity and computation and everything becomes connected and everything is capable of computation. Might you be, become a robotics and car company?

   24. CACristiano Amon39:31

       Um, I will argue we already an automotive, uh, uh, company today, and, but let me tell what I, what I would like Qualcomm to be remembered and recognized for. Um, I think everyone that knows Qualcomm immediately, you know, connect us, pun intended, to connectivity and wireless. But the reality is we're being actually the company providing intelligence and, and processing to everything on the edge, everything outside the data center, that we're doing. Those billions of devices, they're gonna be connected. And, uh, and that's kind of explained when we talk about the connected intelligent edge, the beyond phones, cars, PCs, and all of those, and the broader IoT as we talk about everything will be connected intelligent. And that's what we want Qualcomm to be recognized for.

   25. LFLex Fridman40:20

       So, by the way, for people who are not familiar, there's some technical jargon when people use the word edge, like edge computing. It's... By the way, that's probably changing what that even means, but it's basically everything that's not a giant thing that's making a lot of noise in a building somewhere. So it's mobile devices and the, uh, mobile devices of all kinds of... Well, a refrigerator is not mobile, but it would be edge. So it's, it's like what's a sandwich, that kind of discussion. Um, (laughs) but basically, edge computing is, is, uh, the edge of that expanding space that you mentioned that Qualcomm is trying to connect and enable with computation.

   26. CACristiano Amon41:00

       Huge assembly to describe what the edge is and edge computing is. I think, as we think about the evolution of the data center, uh, you need to bring the computational closer to where the device is. Also, when you put the computation together with the connectivity at the same time, you're gonna see a lot of advancement of artificial intelligence happening closer or at the device. Look, it's a very... Uh, I, I have a simple way to describe it. Remember in the beginning of this conversation we talk about in the 4G era, broadband and mobile computing evolve side by side. If you're gonna have broadband, you might as well have a computer in the palm of your hand, so we needed to invest in those two technologies. In 5G, AI develops side by side. You're connected to the cloud 100% of the time. You have a high bandwidth and you have now a smart and intelligent thing that can make decision in real time, provide context information to the cloud to make the models more accurate, and as well compare and contrast with the cloud. So there's gonna be an exponential development AI happening with all the edge devices, the devices that are outside the data center, and computation is gonna go alongside that. And a great example of that's the car. Um, the car, you know, uh, we haven't talked much about the car, but, you know, Qualcomm is now, um, you could argue with as much as an automotive company as wireless company working 26 global brands.

   27. LFLex Fridman42:31

       Mm-hmm.

   28. CACristiano Amon42:32

       And it's easy to see...If you look at our mobile heritage, and we talk about s- form factors, turbo, battery life, you're not gonna put a server in the trunk of a car, but you need as much computational capabilities. And as we see Qualcomm providing, you know, as the car become a connected computer on wheels, we provide the computational and all the sensors for you to do assisted driving for the new digital cockpit experience, connecting the car to the cloud, and it's, all of that's happening

8. 43:03 – 44:47

   Autonomous vehicles

   1. CACristiano Amon43:03

      at the edge.

   2. LFLex Fridman43:04

      Does Qualcomm want to be the brain of a lot of autonomous vehicles in the future of different, you said brands, like Mercedes-B- I don't know, whatever. Just whatever car, you know, cars have the, the sexy thing they do, and then it defines their brand and so, so on. And then there's the brain that doesn't need to have branding supposedly, you know. So does Qualcomm see that or will I be able to buy a Qualcomm car? Like literally it'll be Qualcomm-

   3. CACristiano Amon43:27

      Uh, no, you're not gonna be able to buy a Qualcomm car, but-

   4. LFLex Fridman43:29

      God damn it.

   5. CACristiano Amon43:29

      ... uh, we already, we're ready, uh, on our way to become, you know, the brains of the car.

   6. LFLex Fridman43:35

      The brains.

   7. CACristiano Amon43:36

      The way you should think about Qualcomm automotive strategy is, the car companies realize they need to become technology companies. You just look, for example-

   8. LFLex Fridman43:45

      Yes.

   9. CACristiano Amon43:45

      ... of the market cap of some of the new, uh, uh, electrical, uh, commerce and compare them with, with the legacy, uh, car companies. So the-

   10. LFLex Fridman43:55

       Which one is that? I, I, I heard of ... Is it-

   11. CACristiano Amon43:58

       Well, let's just use an example.

   12. LFLex Fridman43:59

       One of 'em lives in Austin.

   13. CACristiano Amon44:00

       Let's say Rivian, right? Uh, Rivian.

   14. LFLex Fridman44:02

       Oh, that one too, yes.

   15. CACristiano Amon44:03

       You know, the car companies are not going away. It's actually a mistake not to bet into car companies, huh? The car companies need a technology partner, uh, that will provide the digital chassis for them, and that's what we're doing. So if you look at Qualcomm, we talk about a Snapdragon digital chassis. So we want to be the preferred technology partner of the car companies, and I think it's working, strategy is working right now.

   16. LFLex Fridman44:32

       So basically helping company, the car companies accelerate into this, into becoming technology companies.

   17. CACristiano Amon44:37

       Connecting the car to the cloud, redesign the interior of the digital cockpit experience and provide the computation and sensor capabilities for autonomy and assisted driving.

9. 44:47 – 47:14

   Robots

   1. CACristiano Amon44:48

   2. LFLex Fridman44:48

      On the topic of robots, when millions or billions of robots roam the earth in the future among us humans, and I'm, for one, concerned in a small percentage, but largely I'm excited about that future, will Qualcomm be, uh, the thing that powers their brain?

   3. CACristiano Amon45:08

      We have an, in our IOT business, which has been one of the fastest growing business for us, um, a number of robotics engagement. So I'll give you some example. Uh, if you look of the Amazon Astro, you're familiar with that, there's two, uh, there's two Snapdragon in there, um, you know-

   4. LFLex Fridman45:28

      There is? That's really exciting. They're supposed to ship it to me. Where is it? Okay, but, but anyway, that's really cool. I didn't know there was Snapdragons in there. That's awesome.

   5. CACristiano Amon45:35

      Yeah. We, we working with robotics in industrial, uh, of course, drones, you know, we're getting, uh, more and more traction for robotics-

   6. LFLex Fridman45:44

      Sorry to interrupt. Industrial robotics, too, you just said of

   7. NANarrator45:47

      That's...

   8. CACristiano Amon45:47

      Industrial, uh, especially when you think about, um, what's gonna happen with the factory of the future, the industrial site of the future, the warehouse of the future, when you bring, uh, 5G, for example, to it, and you have a number of different use cases, and, uh, and, uh, and, and then you see a lot of robotics application and, and of course, drones. Uh, and, uh, the most famous, uh, I would consider that a robot, the most famous, uh, robot in the world right now, it's powered by a Snapdragon, which is the Mars Ingenuity helicopter.

   9. LFLex Fridman46:24

      Oh, yeah.

   10. CACristiano Amon46:24

       The whole, uh, helicopter, the cameras and everything is powered by Snapdragon. And talking about exciting thing for an engineer, the same Snapdragon that goes to a phone and it can go to a Galaxy phone, for example, Samsung, the same, not a special one, went all the way to Mars, uh-

   11. LFLex Fridman46:42

       It is exploring other planets looking for alien life and maybe gets to meet 'em. Wouldn't that be interesting if a Snapdragon is the thing that first sees an alien as like, "What the hell?"

   12. CACristiano Amon46:50

       Yeah, but I-

   13. LFLex Fridman46:50

       "We did not program this in the computer vision."

   14. CACristiano Amon46:52

       I want to use the example to go back to the conversation we had about quality. Uh, as an engineer, you need to make sure it works. Can you imagine if it gets over there in Mars and it doesn't work?

   15. LFLex Fridman47:01

       Listen, this is very stressful.

   16. CACristiano Amon47:03

       (laughs)

   17. LFLex Fridman47:04

       What, what NASA, what SpaceX, what all those companies are doing is extremely stressful. The room for mistakes is, is tiny, but that's super exciting for an engineer, once again. Um,

10. 47:14 – 51:23

    Chip shortage

    1. LFLex Fridman47:14

       there's been a global semiconductor chip shortage. So from your perspective, just it'd be interesting to get your expert analysis of the situation. What do you think are the main reasons and how has Qualcomm been affected and how can it help in this and the, in the future, things like it?

    2. CACristiano Amon47:31

       Okay, that's a, that's a, a big topic of conversation.

    3. LFLex Fridman47:36

       Yes, and we only have five minutes. (laughs)

    4. CACristiano Amon47:38

       So I'll try, I'll try to be as objective as I can. So first let's talk about what cause it, and, and I, you know, you hear a lot of different things, I will try to put it within the right context. The first thing that cause it really is the acceleration of digital transformation of pretty much everything in every industry. Uh, every industry's been digitally transformed, and as such, the amount of semiconductors that are required is much larger. Just to give you a practical example, if you think about the automotive as an example, the cars that are, you... There's cars, there launch, a new model launching today. The new model launching today most likely has 10X the amount of chips of the prior model, and the model is people working on this coming in next, probably 10X that one.

    5. LFLex Fridman48:28

       Yeah.

    6. CACristiano Amon48:28

       So you see the amount of silicon and then billions of things become smart, more and more data goes to the cloud, the data center grows, so the floor for semiconductor consumptions went up by a lot. Then you have things that aggravated this. The pandemic aggravated this. There is a couple trends from the pandemic, the enterprise transformation of the home. The home became an enterprise, massive amounts of upgrades on broadband and IOT.... the office, uh, has changed to the way we work now, uh, in- including the ability to support collaboration tools and video. Um, then you have, uh, the higher demand, uh, for, for products during the, uh, pandemic, because people wanted to be connected. People bought new phones and new tablets and new computers, uh, new gaming. So all of those things came on top of that as that aggravated the issue. But they're not the main issue. The main issue is exactly a, a long-term growth of digital.

    7. LFLex Fridman49:35

       So what I'm hearing you say is the pandemic was not the cause, it was an aggravation.

    8. CACristiano Amon49:40

       It was an aggravation.

    9. LFLex Fridman49:41

       So is there a way we can support, as a human civilization, in terms of manufacture, in terms of supply, the kind of growth that you're talking about-

    10. CACristiano Amon49:54

        Yes.

    11. LFLex Fridman49:54

        ... in devices and so on? Is there a high level of ideas you can say of what that's required there?

    12. CACristiano Amon49:59

        Yes. And I think that's, uh, the second part of the answer. So what's happening now? How are we gonna get out of this? So we see a lot of capacity investments put into place by the industry. Um, you know, we had invested a lot with our suppliers. A lot of the suppliers, uh, had made, uh, plans about, you know, increasing the capacity. The industry is planning to double its total semiconductor manufacturing capacity within the next, uh, five years, an example. So that's already happening. And then you see things which are actually good. They're good. Uh, the initiatives, such as the United States CHIPS Act and now the European Chips Act ... The United States CHIPS Act is about, uh, $52 billion. Europeans, about 43. Their goal, combined, is to get at least 50% of the consumption, uh, w- with manufacturing installed within the US and European geographies. And that's also very good. That's yet another, uh, incentive for more manufacturing capacity to be built, and to be built with a geographic distributed way, which that's how you plan supply chain. So those, those, I think are good things. So if anything we learn through the crisis is that semiconductor, uh, is important, semiconductor companies are important, and we need to invest in semiconductors.

11. 51:23 – 54:49

    Lawsuits

    1. CACristiano Amon51:23

    2. LFLex Fridman51:23

       Returning to the grilling of the CEO with the hard questions. Uh, this is almost for my own education of the space. You mentioned regulators. Qualcomm paid out and received payment of billions of dollars in settlement and fines. Uh, there seems to be a lot of huge lawsuits in this space. How do you explain that? Uh, does, uh, does this get in the way of innovation, or does it promote it?

    3. CACristiano Amon51:46

       I will rephrase it by saying there used to be a, a lot of lawsuits in this space. Um, in addition of, of what we do in semiconductors, in our processors and our, our modems, the Snapdragon platform, uh, we also have a licensing business, which has been, uh, part of the company since the beginning. As the largest, uh, inventors of the essential technology in 2G CDMA, 3G, 4G, and 5G, uh, you know, and Qualcomm contribute that to the standards. So we always had this model that, uh, rather than invent the technology and be the only one producing the products, we license so everyone can produce it. And, uh, and as such, we receive intellectual property, uh, for these standard-essential patents. Um, as part of our past dispute with Apple, that's behind us now-

    4. LFLex Fridman52:46

       You're friends now. (laughs)

    5. CACristiano Amon52:47

       They're, they're, they're, they're my customers. Um, and, and, uh, as part of that, I think the, the licensing model got tested in, I think, in every geography. And, uh, we succeeded in every single geography to validate the pro-competitiveness of this model, I think the, uh, the fair, reasonable, non-discriminatory aspect of this model. And I would argue that besides being the most successful licensing business to date in the industry, probably the one that's been battle-tested and is most stable, because there's not a single jurisdiction that we have not, uh, headed to validate that model. So it's part of our past, and what it creates is probably create a lot of stability in our licensing business. But having said that, the growth of the company is in the semiconductor space.

    6. LFLex Fridman53:40

       And the semiconductor ... So licensing is you come up with a pretty good idea. You have a bunch of smart people coming up with cool ideas, and then once you come up with that idea, you sell that idea to others to get to use it. That's essentially what a license ...

    7. CACristiano Amon53:54

       The license revenue we have is, is for the, what we call the SEP, standard-essential patents, that are part of, uh, the 2G, 3G, 4G, and 5G standards.

    8. LFLex Fridman54:07

       Okay.

    9. CACristiano Amon54:07

       So if you want to build anything with 5G, you need to get a license from Qualcomm, because it uses Qualcomm, uh, essential technology as part of their standard.

    10. LFLex Fridman54:18

        And a slightly different model, or a lot different model, the semiconductor is you design, you inject a bunch of fascinating ideas, how to build a Snapdragon, and then there's, because it's a fabless company, you have somebody build the, the s- the, the chip, and it goes into a phone with the branding and all that kind of stuff. And, and that le- has less kind of players involved. It's not a licensing-

    11. CACristiano Amon54:41

        We sell the product in the semicon- we don't license semiconductor technology. We build products and we sell products.

    12. LFLex Fridman54:47

        All right.

12. 54:49 – 59:08

    Leadership

    1. LFLex Fridman54:49

       This is your first year as a CEO.

    2. CACristiano Amon54:51

       Not, not one year yet.

    3. LFLex Fridman54:53

       Not one year yet.

    4. CACristiano Amon54:54

       (laughs)

    5. LFLex Fridman54:55

       (laughs) Let's hope, it'll be in June, it'll be one year. Okay. Um, this is a-... a company that's involved with a lot of fascinating technologies and it's touching the lives of billions of people. A lot of complicated stuff ex- like you said, licensing technologies. You have to collaborate with, uh, manufacturers. You have to then work with however many you said, car companies and all these clients and so on. And you have to, uh, you know, with, with tech companies, uh, Apple and so on. Wh- what's that like? What lessons have you learned about leadership and maybe about yourself as a human being from this first, uh, almost a year, soon to be a year as a CEO of this incredible, this complex, this large company?

    6. CACristiano Amon55:43

       Oh, that's a loaded question. Let me, let me answer in reverse order.

    7. LFLex Fridman55:47

       (laughs)

    8. CACristiano Amon55:47

       Um, first thing that I learned, um, and I, I think is probably common, uh, across CEOs especially, uh, in our industry is, it would be great if I had more time. Uh, I think there's, especially because we grow in so many areas, and there are so many things to learn, so many, uh, relationships to build, um, time to spend with a number of different technologies, and, um, and, uh, but it kind of reflects really the size of the opportunity that exists for Qualcomm. Qualcomm, it is really growing in a number of different directions all at the same time. And, uh, so it, it did got busier, um, and, uh, part of this is because I'm spending a lot of time understanding the new industries we're going in and building, uh, uh, relationships. Second thing, which has a lot to do with how I think about things, and a little bit of my personality, at the end of the day, business partnership is really done by people. And I think the importance of having trusted relationships for the long term, uh, is extremely important. And I've been dedicated to do that as CEO. We're not a company that plays for the short term. We don't. And when we build new partnerships, we expect that to be for decades. And, uh, so I, I spend time doing that and think that's important for Qualcomm. The other part of, um, your question is, we do have a lot of opportunities in all different areas. What we like, and I've been fortunate enough to become CEO at a time that a lot of the trends are pointing toward technology. Uh, we talk about some of them. We talk about merger of physical and digital spaces. We talk about the transformation of the automobile. We talk about the merge of computing and mobile, uh, the enterprise transformation of the home. There are many of those trends, and those trends create opportunities for Qualcomm, uh, to be, uh, providing technology first, and as such, we're in a hurry. Uh, so I'm in a little bit of a hurry because I think the opportunity is incredible for technology, but, uh, but having fun and, and enjoying the job.

    9. LFLex Fridman58:02

       Is there a burden because of so much of what you said is, uh, partnerships and, you know, almost like friendships, connections with other human beings? Uh, me as an introvert that has a lot of social anxiety, that seems extremely stressful. So is there that burden on your shoulders? You have to wake up every day and talk to cl- friends you've had for many years. It could be, you know, and then convince them and make partnerships with them, talk with them, describe to them the future, sell them on the idea and then yourself grow because you don't know what the heck the future's gonna be like. And you have to project both confidence and humility, all those kinds of things. Is that exhausting? (laughs)

    10. CACristiano Amon58:43

        Um, is- it is exhausting, but-

    11. LFLex Fridman58:46

        (laughs)

    12. CACristiano Amon58:46

        ... it's something I- I do like to do, and it's, it's not only with partners really, it's also internally to your employees.

    13. LFLex Fridman58:53

        Yeah.

    14. CACristiano Amon58:53

        So I think-

    15. LFLex Fridman58:53

        Yes.

    16. CACristiano Amon58:54

        ... to get alignment on the vision and, uh, and faith in the vision and execute, and at the end of the day we're very fortunate. We have a lot of smart people, so people when, if they're aligned with the vision, they know what to do. And, and then of course as CEO you have to convince your investors that that's the, that's the right

13. 59:08 – 1:03:00

    Advice for young people

    1. CACristiano Amon59:08

       idea as well.

    2. LFLex Fridman59:10

       If you can put on your wise sage hat, uh, do you have advice for young people in high school and college? You yourself started from the humble beginnings in Brazil, um, maybe a bit of a wild, risky decision to go to Japan, and now are at the head of one of the biggest, most successful, most impactful companies in the world. Given that story, can you give advice to young people today that, you know, how they can have a career or just a life they can be proud of?

    3. CACristiano Amon59:44

       I think the first thing, and um, and of course all those answers are gonna relate to my own experience, right? Um, the first thing is, it always worked for me to have, to have a plan, even if the plan is just what I'm gonna do in the next two years, but what do I want to do? Where do I want to go? And, uh, and I think it's important for people, especially young people, um, is, is to really, you know, have a dream and go pursue it. I mean, have dreams, not go back to bed to sleep.

    4. LFLex Fridman1:00:17

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CACristiano Amon1:00:17

       Uh, it's really, what, what do you want to accomplish and then what it's gonna take to do that? And, uh, and then believe in yourself. Um, you know, I, I, like I said, I joined Qualcomm as an engineer, um, and, uh, I didn't have any plans when I joined, uh, to be CEO, but I do want to, as an engineer, what do I wanted to do? What I, where I wanna, what, where I wanna contribute, what I wanted to work on and then, and then keep evolving from that point in time. The other thing is, this is an advice, it's more of like career advice that I got, um, I got early in my career, was extremely helpful for me and I will give that advice to everyone that is interested. Um, spend time understanding what are the, what are the things you're good at and what are the things you're not? Like, what is that real border between your area of competence and your area of incompetence? And once you see that-... once you see that, you know exactly what you have to work on, and you can say, "I can, if I, that's where I want to go next, this is the gap I need to do it." And it's, it's, it's faster when you can identify yourself before other people can tell you. Then it leads to automatically the next step. Surround yourself with people that are very good at the things that you're not.

    6. LFLex Fridman1:01:35

       (laughs) So you have to be radically honest that, about the things that you're not good at but, given what you're passionate about, you need to get good at, or you would like to get good at, and surround yourself with those people. How often did the plans you make actually work out? You said it's important to make plans. You didn't say anything about, uh, it's important to execute on those plans.

    7. CACristiano Amon1:01:56

       Uh, more than 50%, uh, success rate.

    8. LFLex Fridman1:01:58

       Okay, try to keep it above 50.

    9. CACristiano Amon1:01:59

       Try to keep it above 50. (laughs)

    10. LFLex Fridman1:02:01

        Uh, what was the whole ... Why did you end up in Japan?

    11. CACristiano Amon1:02:05

        You know, I've been, uh, fortunate enough to work in cellular and wireless my entire career. So I, I, I always liked communications. Um, when I enter engineering school, uh, my dad was electrical engineer, but he worked with the utility company. He wanted to, me to graduate in traditional electrical engineering, like h- in energy generation, distribution. Um, and, but I like electronics, communications, so I ended up doing both. And, um, and I always liked communication, was fascinated by wireless communication. So my first job out of college, I started working for a Japanese company down in Brazil. Uh, it was NEC. And within about a year in, they transferred me to Tokyo. They asked me to go to the headquarters, and it was the first time I left, uh, Brazil. And, uh ...

    12. LFLex Fridman1:02:51

        A, a little bit different from Brazil, culturally.

    13. CACristiano Amon1:02:53

        Very different. Uh, it's, uh, in the other side of the planet, uh.

    14. LFLex Fridman1:02:57

        Yes.

    15. CACristiano Amon1:02:58

        And, uh, and that's how I started.

14. 1:03:00 – 1:09:04

    Meaning of life

    1. CACristiano Amon1:03:00

    2. LFLex Fridman1:03:00

       You said your father's an electrical engineer. Uh, do you think what you're doing now makes your father proud?

    3. CACristiano Amon1:03:07

       I think he's very proud. I think, uh, especially, you know, um, he tells me that, uh, you know, I'm, I'm still the same person, never changed, and, uh, he'll-

    4. LFLex Fridman1:03:17

       Does he still, does he give you advice? Does he criticize what you're doing?

    5. CACristiano Amon1:03:20

       No, he still gives me-

    6. LFLex Fridman1:03:21

       Tell you how to improve?

    7. CACristiano Amon1:03:22

       My, my mom and dad still give me advice today. I'm very fortunate for that. But, uh, uh, but, uh, uh, he's, he's proud. Also proud because there are very few Brazilians, uh, uh, that have, you know, achieved a position as CEO of, uh, of a company the size of Qualcomm. And I, and I do know that, that also I carry a burden. I, you know, I, especially for the Latino community, to be an inspiration for them and make sure I set a good example. Uh.

    8. LFLex Fridman1:03:52

       So not just your, your mom and dad, but, um, the culture, the people that, uh, were originally your home. Do you, uh, you know, life is finite. Do you think about your own mortality?

    9. CACristiano Amon1:04:07

       Look, I'm a, I'm a devout Christian, and, uh, so I'm, uh, a big believer that there's, uh, this is just a transition, uh.

    10. LFLex Fridman1:04:17

        (laughs)

    11. CACristiano Amon1:04:17

        And, uh, but, um, don't spend a lot of time thinking about that. I'm, I am, uh, somebody good, better and different that try as much as possible to live the present, and that's what I do.

    12. LFLex Fridman1:04:31

        And try to make the present better on this, on this place here on Earth.

    13. CACristiano Amon1:04:35

        Absolutely, absolutely.

    14. LFLex Fridman1:04:36

        And that some of these technologies, some of these ideas are kind of a different kind of immortality as well, 'cause they, they propagate through time and have impact on people, um, in the best possible way. So technology can be scary, it can, technology can be destructive, but it seems like in the end, it can be, it can do a lot of good.

    15. CACristiano Amon1:04:56

        More good-

    16. LFLex Fridman1:04:57

        It gives people hope.

    17. CACristiano Amon1:04:57

        ... there's more good than bad.

    18. LFLex Fridman1:04:59

        What do you think is the meaning of this whole thing? I asked you about aliens observing us. What, what's the meaning of life? Cristiano, what's the meaning of life?

    19. CACristiano Amon1:05:09

        Uh, that's-

    20. LFLex Fridman1:05:09

        Easy questions.

    21. CACristiano Amon1:05:10

        ... that's not an easy question at all. Uh, I think that's, uh, that's a question, at least for me, you have to answer individually. Uh, but, uh, I do believe we're all here for a purpose. Uh, you know, I, I, you know, in my prayers, I always ask that, you know, I, I stay on track to whatever my purpose is. But I do believe we're here for a purpose, and we need to do the best we can during the time we have on this Earth.

    22. LFLex Fridman1:05:37

        So that means create beautiful things for you, as an engineer?

    23. CACristiano Amon1:05:41

        Do the right thing, yes, and, and create beautiful things, yes.

    24. LFLex Fridman1:05:44

        What about love? What's the role of love in the human condition?

    25. CACristiano Amon1:05:50

        Love's very important, and, uh, it's an essential part of, uh, being human. It comes in the package. And, uh, I think if you look at the situation, what's happening right now, I think, uh, you look at the situation with some of the underprivileged, uh, communities, you look at the homeless situation, I think we all need more love.

    26. LFLex Fridman1:06:10

        Yeah, and I think people that build incredible technology sometimes forget the love part. Like, those are all, it's all integrated. There's no ... Thinking about humanity is really important when you build tools that empower that humanity, 'cause there's, I think, I, at least I personally believe we're all capable of both evil and good. And we have to build technology, build societies, build governments, build communities that, um, inspire us to, to connect with the good part within all of us.

    27. CACristiano Amon1:06:41

        I'm a big believer that technology is, at the end, the force for good. And if just look, if you just look, you know, not trying to move away from a deep discussion to a more, uh, specific technical one. But if, we, we started the conversation talking about smartphones. And, uh, smartphones really the first time that you could say that everybody in the world was able to connect to the internet and connect to each other. And I think what, uh, that empowerment that that provided, it's an incredible force for good.

    28. LFLex Fridman1:07:14

        Well, the company you lead, the, the technology you've created, one of them that I'm especially excited about, which is Snapdragon, the whole line of processors there. Currently, I would say about 10 billion transistors. If you think about the human brain, it's about 100 billion neurons. So I think, uh, 11 Samsung Galaxy 22s, S22s are already smarter than me, and that's being nice, uh, to me. I'm really honored that you spent your extremely valuable time with me. Uh, even though you said Pele is the favorite player, um, beyond all of that, uh, I think you're an incredible person, an incredible leader, and you lead an incredible engineering company. So thank you for doing that.

    29. CACristiano Amon1:07:56

        Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for the kind words. Really a pleasure having this conversation. I really had a lot of fun doing it, and, uh, thank you for having me on your podcast.

    30. LFLex Fridman1:08:04

        Thanks for listening to this conversation with Cristiano Amon. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, let me leave you with some words from Stephen Hawking. "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk, and we learned to listen. Speech has allowed the communication of ideas, enabling human beings to work together to build the impossible. Mankind's greatest achievements have come about by talking, and its greatest failures by not talking. It doesn't have to be like this. Our greatest hopes could become reality in the future. With the technology at our disposal, the possibilities are unbounded. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking." Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.

Episode duration: 1:09:09