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Jo Boaler: How to Learn Math | Lex Fridman Podcast #226

Jo Boaler is a professor of mathematics education at Stanford and the co-founder of youcubed. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Truebill: https://truebill.com/lex - Fundrise: https://fundrise.com/lex - ExpressVPN: https://expressvpn.com/lexpod and use code LexPod to get 3 months free - Indeed: https://indeed.com/lex to get $75 credit - Stamps.com: https://stamps.com and use code LEX to get free postage & scale EPISODE LINKS: Jo's Twitter: https://twitter.com/joboaler youcubed: https://www.youcubed.org/ Jo's Books: https://amzn.to/2Y3S2xW Elastic by Leonard Mlodinow: https://amz.run/4tCk Deep Work by Cal Newport: https://amz.run/4tCl 3Blue1Brown: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYO_jab_esuFRV4b17AJtAw Manim: https://github.com/3b1b/manim PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 0:23 - What is beautiful about mathematics? 9:12 - How difficult should math really be? 17:31 - Students giving up on math 28:52 - Improving math education in schools 38:49 - Inspiring mathematical creativity 56:35 - youcubed 1:00:55 - Best methods for studying math 1:21:29 - Advice for young people SOCIAL: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

Lex FridmanhostJo Boalerguest
Sep 27, 20211h 30mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Jo Boaler Redefines How We Learn, Teach, and Love Mathematics

  1. Lex Fridman and Jo Boaler discuss why mathematics is inherently visual, creative, and multidimensional rather than a rigid set of procedures and answers.
  2. Boaler explains neuroscience findings on how rich, varied math experiences build connected brains, and argues that struggle, intuition, and collaboration are central to real mathematical thinking.
  3. They critique traditional schooling—textbooks, grades, timed tests, and the myth of ‘math people’—and explore alternatives like big-idea teaching, visual tasks, and data science curricula.
  4. The conversation emphasizes the transformational roles teachers and parents can play, the importance of believing in students’ potential, and practical ways to reduce math anxiety and foster deep, flexible thinking.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Make math visual, multi-sensory, and story-based.

Neuroscience shows that high achievers connect multiple brain pathways—numeric, visual, verbal, and physical. Representing any topic with diagrams, colors, stories, and physical models (not just symbols) strengthens understanding and retention.

Treat struggle as the productive core of learning, not a failure signal.

When students find math hard, their brains are making new connections; quitting usually stems from believing they’re ‘not a math person’. Normalizing confusion and difficulty helps students persist long enough to experience real insight.

Combat the ‘math people’ myth by explicitly conveying belief in students.

A single sentence—“I’m giving you this feedback because I believe in you”—was shown to raise achievement a year later. Teachers and parents need to communicate genuine belief in students’ capacity to grow, not fixed talent judgments.

Teach big ideas through rich tasks instead of fragmented standards.

Breaking math into dozens of tiny standards and short textbook exercises hides the conceptual map. Organizing curricula around a few core ideas (e.g., measuring, patterns, fractions) and exploring them deeply through open-ended tasks leads to stronger understanding.

Use collaboration to build deeper reasoning and reduce social comparison.

Students initially treat group work as parallel solo work and compare who's ‘better’; when taught to truly collaborate, they start valuing others’ perspectives, perform better on applied problems, and experience math as a shared creative endeavor.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

You can take any area of maths and make it visual.

Jo Boaler

We should all be thinking about maths visually.

Jo Boaler

When you struggle, that's actually a really good time for your brain.

Jo Boaler

Our school system is set up to value good memorizers and push away those creative deep thinkers.

Jo Boaler

Scientists try to find a limit to how much you can learn—and they always come away not being able to find it.

Jo Boaler

The beauty of mathematics as a creative, visual, multidimensional subjectNeuroscience of math learning: brain pathways, struggle, and intuitionTeaching practices: big ideas, visualizations, rich problems, and collaborationMyths about ‘math brains’, mindsets, and math anxiety in students and adultsRoles of teachers and parents in shaping math identity and confidenceAssessment, grades, and the limitations of textbook- and test-driven educationSystemic change: data science in high school and reimagining future education

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