Skip to content
Lex Fridman PodcastLex Fridman Podcast

Leslie Kaelbling: Reinforcement Learning, Planning, and Robotics | Lex Fridman Podcast #15

Lex Fridman and Leslie Kaelbling on leslie Kaelbling on uncertainty, abstraction, and truly intelligent robots.

Lex FridmanhostLeslie Kaelblingguest
Mar 12, 20191h 1mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Leslie Kaelbling on uncertainty, abstraction, and truly intelligent robots

  1. Leslie Kaelbling discusses her path from philosophy to AI and robotics, arguing that logic, formal semantics, and materialism naturally underpin her view that human-level robot behavior is a purely technical challenge. She traces the cyclical history of AI, contrasting expert systems, symbolic reasoning, and modern learning-based approaches, emphasizing the central role of abstraction, uncertainty, and hierarchical planning. A major theme is planning and acting under partial observability via POMDPs and belief-space planning, and how robots must reason about both the world and their own uncertainty. She also critiques current research culture and publishing, champions open access and deeper theory, and stresses the need to design good objectives and structural biases rather than rely on monolithic end-to-end learning.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Abstraction and hierarchy are indispensable for real-world planning.

Humans and robots cannot plan at the level of raw sensory data and torques for long-horizon tasks; spatial, temporal, and goal abstractions (e.g., ‘afternoon’ vs ‘2:54 pm’, ‘room’ vs precise pose) drastically shrink state spaces and make long-horizon reasoning tractable.

Planning under uncertainty requires reasoning in belief space, not just state space.

In partially observable settings, agents must control their beliefs—probability distributions over possible world states—so they can decide when to gather information, how to trade off sensing vs acting, and when uncertainty is too high to safely proceed.

POMDPs are intractable in theory but still invaluable as modeling tools.

Even though optimal solutions for POMDPs are often computationally impossible, formulating problems this way clarifies what’s hard, guides approximation choices, and structures algorithms, rather than pretending the underlying uncertainty does not exist.

Different problems call for different internal representations and learning strategies.

There is no single ‘true’ method—symbolic logic, neural networks, model-based RL, and policies are all tools; riding a unicycle, solving algebra, and doing medicine likely require distinct representations, time-space trade-offs, and computational structures.

Perception’s next leap depends on what it should output, not just better classifiers.

We lack a clear understanding of the right representational targets for perception in an integrated intelligent agent—beyond steering or labeling images—so progress hinges on discovering structural biases (like convolution) for objects, relations, and higher-level reasoning.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I like to say that I’m interested in doing a very bad job of very big problems.

Leslie Kaelbling

To me, it’s a big technical gap. I don’t see any reason why it’s more than a technical gap.

Leslie Kaelbling

The problem you have to solve is the problem you have to solve. If the problem you have to solve is intractable, that’s what makes us AI people.

Leslie Kaelbling

We don’t operate at Lego Mindstorms level. We specify a hypothesis class and an objective function, and we don’t know which solution will come out.

Leslie Kaelbling

I do research because it’s fun, not because I care about what we produce.

Leslie Kaelbling

Path from philosophy to AI and robotics; relevance of logic and formal semanticsSymbolic reasoning, expert systems, and the historical cycles of AI and MLAbstraction, hierarchy, and planning under uncertainty (MDPs, POMDPs, belief space)Model-based vs model-free reinforcement learning and the role of optimalityPerception, representation, and structural biases (e.g., convolution, objects, graphs)Human-level intelligence, modularity, self-awareness, and value alignmentScientific publishing, open access (JMLR), and incentives in contemporary ML research

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome