Magatte Wade: Africa, Capitalism, Communism, and the Future of Humanity | Lex Fridman Podcast #311

1. 0:00 – 0:40

   Introduction

   1. MWMagatte Wade0:00

      You have to have free markets in order to build prosperity, and prosperity means economic power. If you have economic power, no one messes with you. Or if they're going to do it, they're going to have to think twice, and when they do, they're going to have to pay consequences.

   2. LFLex Fridman0:20

      The following is a conversation with Magatte Wade, an entrepreneur who's passionate about creating positive change in Africa through economic empowerment. This is the Lex Fridman podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description and now, dear friends, here's Magatte Wade.

2. 0:40 – 29:33

   Africa

   1. LFLex Fridman0:40

      You were born in Senegal.

   2. MWMagatte Wade0:42

      Mm-hmm.

   3. LFLex Fridman0:43

      You have lived and traveled across the world, so let me ask you, what is the soul of Senegal? Like its people, its culture, its history. Can you, can you try to sneak up on telling us, what is the spirit of its people?

   4. MWMagatte Wade0:58

      Teranga. Teranga. Teranga, it's a Wolof word. Wolof is a main indigenous language of Senegal, and it means hospitality. That is what us, the people of Senegal, are known for.

   5. LFLex Fridman1:11

      Mm-hmm.

   6. MWMagatte Wade1:11

      Um, and it, uh, transpires in everything that we do, um, everything that we say. It's a place where, I guess, with hospitality goes this concept of warmth. So we are very... We are a very warm people. Uh, so in a nutshell, that's us. That's, that's us. The place where you come and everybody will just embrace you, um, make you feel very comfortable, make you look like... Feel like you're the only person in the world and that we've been waiting for you our whole life, right?

   7. LFLex Fridman1:37

      (laughs)

   8. MWMagatte Wade1:37

      So, so that's my country. And my people.

   9. LFLex Fridman1:40

      So that's, for people in Senegal, people in Africa, or also people across the world, weird strangers from all walks of life?

   10. MWMagatte Wade1:47

       Mm-hmm.

   11. LFLex Fridman1:47

       So hospitality towards everyone?

   12. MWMagatte Wade1:49

       Yes, for everyone. For everyone. Especially towards the foreigner, because it's very... It's very, um, ingrained in us, this understanding that especially the foreigner... The foreigner is called foreigner because the foreigner's coming from somewhere else. So if someone has taken the time and the energy, whether, uh, in a forced manner or because it's a choice to travel so far to come to a place that's not theirs to start with. That's why they're foreigners, again. Um, then it is your duty to welcome them, to be uber welcome, welcoming to them.

   13. LFLex Fridman2:23

       So there's not a fear of the foreigner. There's not a suspicion of the foreigner.

   14. MWMagatte Wade2:26

       No. No. No. And I think, um, this goes with the other way around. Maybe it has to do with, um, just... You know, when you feel good about yourself, when you're very grounded yourself, it's very easy to open yourself to others. And, um, I'm wondering if that's not, you know, the other side of the equation in a way. So no, we don't have a fear, uh, towards a foreigner. That's just not the case.

   15. LFLex Fridman2:50

       So when you have a pride, uh, of your culture, pride of your own people, like it's easier to, sort of embrace. I mean, it's interesting how these kind of cultures emerge because, um, you know, the Slavic countries, they're sometimes colder.

   16. MWMagatte Wade3:04

       Mm-hmm.

   17. LFLex Fridman3:05

       They're, they're slower to trust others.

   18. MWMagatte Wade3:07

       Mm-hmm.

   19. LFLex Fridman3:07

       Uh, we're now here in Austin, Texas. One of the reasons I fell in love with this place when I showed up is there's that same hospitality.

   20. MWMagatte Wade3:13

       Right.

   21. LFLex Fridman3:13

       As compared to other cities I've lived in.

   22. MWMagatte Wade3:16

       Mm-hmm.

   23. LFLex Fridman3:17

       Sort of Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco. There's, um, there's a hesitation to open up, to be fragile, to, to be caring before understanding what the sort of... What I can gain from you kind of calculation. It's really interesting and I wonder what... How those kinds of dynamics emerge because there's certainly parts of the world-

   24. MWMagatte Wade3:41

       Mm-hmm.

   25. LFLex Fridman3:41

       ... like Austin is one of them-

   26. MWMagatte Wade3:43

       Mm-hmm.

   27. LFLex Fridman3:43

       ... where you just feel the kindness, just radiate without knowing.

   28. MWMagatte Wade3:46

       Mm-hmm.

   29. LFLex Fridman3:46

       Kindness from strangers.

   30. MWMagatte Wade3:48

       Mm-hmm. You know, um, if I were to advance one thing, and I had the same experience, um, after having lived in San Francisco first, then we went to New York, then we came to Austin. When we came to Austin, I felt... It took me a while to put my finger on it. But what I found in Austin, people just hang. People-
3. 29:33 – 58:21

   Magatte's story

   1. MWMagatte Wade29:33

      And maybe here, let me just maybe illustrate it with my own story, and then I can take you back-

   2. LFLex Fridman29:39

      Yeah.

   3. MWMagatte Wade29:39

      ... to-

   4. LFLex Fridman29:40

      Yeah, what's... (laughs) My God, tell us your story.

   5. MWMagatte Wade29:44

      (laughs) No, no.

   6. LFLex Fridman29:44

      Who are you?

   7. MWMagatte Wade29:45

      It just, it just because it started with me coming here, you showed me

   8. NANarrator29:47

      (laughing)

   9. MWMagatte Wade29:47

      ... and now it looks like I'm no need for, we no need 12th.

   10. LFLex Fridman29:50

       Yeah. (laughs)

   11. MWMagatte Wade29:50

       And then you're like, "Tell people." And then... (laughs) No, no, no, but... So this is where this question, even when you asked me, "How are some, some count- how do some countries become prosperous?" That question, Lex, I had it when I was seven or so. That's when my family moved me to, um, from Senegal. For the first time of my life, I left my country, I left my continent, and I was headed to Europe.... to go join my people, my f- my family, my parents, who were there as, um, economic migrants. My parents had migrated for a better life. Us, so many people have to. So many people have to, coming from poorer places, coming from low-income countries.

   12. LFLex Fridman30:31

       So you saw the difference-

   13. MWMagatte Wade30:32

       Yes!

   14. LFLex Fridman30:33

       ... between the two places.

   15. MWMagatte Wade30:34

       I, I, w- uh, how else would you call it? Here you are in Senegal, minding your own business, causing tons of trouble everywhere. You know, just being a, just being a happy, free range kid that I was.

   16. LFLex Fridman30:45

       Yeah. So you were always a troublemaker, not just now?

   17. MWMagatte Wade30:47

       Always.

   18. LFLex Fridman30:48

       Okay. Great.

   19. MWMagatte Wade30:49

       Just, I mean, life wouldn't be fun without any trouble.

   20. LFLex Fridman30:50

       Yeah, no, of course. I agree.

   21. MWMagatte Wade30:51

       I mean, right?

   22. LFLex Fridman30:52

       (laughs)

   23. MWMagatte Wade30:52

       So, because even you, you know, like in your, like, uh, all put together, like front, I know there's a lot of troublemaking-

   24. LFLex Fridman30:57

       I'm-

   25. MWMagatte Wade30:57

       ... behind you.

   26. LFLex Fridman30:57

       ... desperately trying to-

   27. MWMagatte Wade30:58

       (laughs)

   28. LFLex Fridman30:59

       ... keep it together. Yes.

   29. MWMagatte Wade30:59

       I know you are but, with me, I'm gonna totally bring it out.

   30. LFLex Fridman31:02

       Good.
4. 58:21 – 1:19:46

   Corruption

   1. MWMagatte Wade58:21

   2. LFLex Fridman58:23

      Uh, so let's try to s- untangle this. So there's a system in place.

   3. MWMagatte Wade58:28

      Mm-hmm.

   4. LFLex Fridman58:28

      There's a momentum with that system. Like you said, "Lady, it's not my level," which is, um, for somebody who grew up in the Soviet Union, um, at least echoes some of the same sounds I heard, um, from, from people I knew there.

   5. MWMagatte Wade58:45

      Right.

   6. LFLex Fridman58:45

      It's kind of this helpless feeling like, well, this is just part of the system, this gigantic bureaucracy. And the corruption that happens is just like the only way to get around, to get anything done.

   7. MWMagatte Wade58:58

      Mm-hmm.

   8. LFLex Fridman58:58

      And so the corruption grows.

   9. MWMagatte Wade59:00

      Mm-hmm.

   10. LFLex Fridman59:00

       Maybe could you speak to the corruption? Is there, is, to what degree is there corruption in Senegal and Africa, and, um, how do we fix it?

   11. MWMagatte Wade59:12

       (laughs) So when you say to which degrees if there's corruption, I will respond to you the same I respond to people. I say, "Yeah, we have corruption and it's almost as bad as in Chicago." Yeah. Right? So, um, now, what I want people to understand when it comes to corruption, it's, uh... Because we are misguided with corruption. We think corruption is the root cause of problems when corruption is simply a symptom of a deeper root problem. In this case, um, if you make the laws so senseless, meaning, let me give you an example of senseless laws. Every time I have to import something in my country, I have a business. We're making lip balms in this case, and others, uh, skincare products. Some ingredients I'm able to find in the country at the standard that I need in order to remain competitive 'Cause for example, our products are sold at Whole Foods Market. You can understand it's a pretty sophisticated and really, you know, it, they don't just put anybody on the shelves. But the thing is, it means that on the other end, my inputs has to be right. So out of those, some, we have seven ingredients, seven, uh, items that need to come from abroad to go into the making of this product. Some packaging and some raw material. But guess what, Lex? For five of them, I am paying a 40% tariff.... and for the other two, almost 70% tariff. That I call senseless laws. These tariffs are senseless.

   12. LFLex Fridman1:00:58

       Yeah, corruption is just a symptom. They reveal that something was broken about the laws.

   13. MWMagatte Wade1:01:02

       Exactly.

   14. LFLex Fridman1:01:03

       And, and the laws are... So taxation, um, this kind of res- restricting laws. Like, laws that slow down the entrepreneurial momentum.

   15. MWMagatte Wade1:01:14

       They do. They do. Because in this case, when my product comes, what do people have to do? Because every time... If you, if you add 40%, you are basically on the other end. So every time you add, um... If, let's say, my product normally cost a dollar and with your 40%, by the time I'm done, I had to pay, I had... Now, it's costing me $1.40 by the time it arrives in my warehouse, in my manufacturing facility. It's now at $1.40 because of the tariff I left behind. That 40% you added to it, do you know how much it's going to add to my final cost that once the product is finished, I have to sell it to the customer? I have to sell it for $1.60 more because of that 40 cents, uh, extra you took from me. In order for me at the end of the day to have some type of profits, because profits at the end of the day, um, is, uh, the blood of a business. There too, people are misguided. They say, "Oh, you dirty, greedy business people, and it's all about profit, profit, profit, profit." You know, I belong to this organization called... I'm a board member on the Conscious Capitalism. It is the largest organization of purpose-driven businesses and entrepreneurs, the type of people I told you about. We start our businesses because we, we see something that needs to be, to be taken care of in society. Whole Foods Market is one of them, The Container Store, you know, all of these companies that are beloved in the US that you can hear of. We believe that the end goal of business is purpose. But in order to do purpose, you have to have profits to stay in- to stay alive. And the best way for people to think of profit so that they're not all twisted about it... Lex, if I asked you, "What's your goal in the world?" You're probably gonna tell me your dream. You're gonna talk to me about what you're doing right now and how you want to be uniting... Um, you want a more harmonious world. You want human flourishing. That's what you're working towards. That's what you say to me. You're not gonna say, "Well, my biggest goal in the world is to produce as many red blood cells as I can."

   16. LFLex Fridman1:03:26

       Mm-hmm.

   17. MWMagatte Wade1:03:27

       Except you need to produce those, otherwise no Lex. And if no Lex-

   18. LFLex Fridman1:03:31

       (laughs)

   19. MWMagatte Wade1:03:31

       ... no one working. (laughs)

   20. LFLex Fridman1:03:33

       Yeah.

   21. MWMagatte Wade1:03:33

       You know what I mean?

   22. LFLex Fridman1:03:34

       Yeah.

   23. MWMagatte Wade1:03:35

       So that's how. So people need to stop with this whole profit, non-pr. Yeah. Do we have some psychopaths among us? Yeah, 1% of us in this world are psychopaths.

   24. LFLex Fridman1:03:43

       Yeah.

   25. MWMagatte Wade1:03:43

       In every field, anywhere you look. And surely you find that in the entrepreneurial, in entrepreneurs world as well. Yeah, so we have 1% of us who are psychopath for sure. But do they define the rest of us? Absolutely not and thankfully not. So let's just be clear on that. So here the, you know, my... You charge me 40% tariff, which is outrageous. Then you're forcing me to sell it for $1.60 more than my competitor who does not have to go through that nonsense because she's an American woman who is operating in America and she doesn't have that nonsense put on her. So now I'm on this market competing against this woman eye to eye. So if we're selling the same value product, mine costs $1.60 more simply because of some stupid rules from back home, then guess who's going to stay in business and who doesn't? See, they want to talk about equality. That's the type of equality I want to see. The playing level- the level- the playing field has to be leveled. I told you, English is my fourth language, so.

   26. LFLex Fridman1:04:41

       Well, there's two- Yeah.

   27. MWMagatte Wade1:04:42

       (laughs)

   28. LFLex Fridman1:04:42

       ... two people talking.

   29. MWMagatte Wade1:04:42

       (laughs)

   30. LFLex Fridman1:04:44

       Between us, maybe we'll have this English thing figured out.
5. 1:19:46 – 1:40:46

   Advice for young people

   1. LFLex Fridman1:19:46

      I- is there a device you can give-

   2. MWMagatte Wade1:19:49

      Yeah.

   3. LFLex Fridman1:19:49

      ... to people that, to, uh, young girls and boys dreaming somewhere in Africa-

   4. MWMagatte Wade1:19:56

      Yes.

   5. LFLex Fridman1:19:57

      ... of how to change the world?

   6. MWMagatte Wade1:19:58

      That's right. And by the way, I wanna say, there are bigger beacons, there are better beacons than me. I just happen to be someone who has the chance of talking to you right now. Uh, and one of my goals is to open the same doors that were opened for me, because together, our voice (sighs) there's such amazing stories out there. And, um, so bigger beacons, better beacons out there. One thing here for me, the reason why I do what I'm doing right now, and it's almost to the point of self-destructing my own health, I feel invested with such the mission of I have been afforded the truth, so it is my moral duty to try to take it around. I know I sound... People sometimes they say, "When I listen to you, I, I feel like I'm, I'm talking to a, to a priest." And I'm like, "Because the gospel (laughs) I received the gos-" So anyway, but the thing is, Lex, who tells you these things to this day? When they talk about the poverty of Africa, what do they talk about? They're sitting there and telling you, "Oh, yeah, it's because of colonialism. It's because of race- racism. It's because of imperialism. It's because they're stealing, you know, raw material. Blah, blah, blah." Is, is any of those culp-, you know, like, um, guilty to some level of where we are today? Uh, one of, maybe part of the reason where we are today? Maybe. Maybe. Is that the only reason or the overwhelming reasons? No. Is that insurmountable? Absolutely not. So for me, don't stay in that place of, um, that steals and robs you of your agency. So, so I think it's important for people to, A, get the right diagnosis as to why we are where we are. Because what you and I just talked about, the mainstream does not talk about this when they even talk about A- Africa in terms that, you know, are not the usual suspect of, "Oh, famine is building over there. War is building over here. Oh, we're having, Ebola is coming." All of that stuff. Even when they were talking about the monkeypox, which at first, you know, um, in this wave, it started with white people in Europe. Well, even in the many newspapers you pull out, it's Black people with ma- m- monkeypox on their, on, on their skin. I'm like, "Wait a second, this time around, we, it did not start with us. So why are we, are you always showing us when it's right now happening to white people?" You know?

Episode duration: 3:33:03