EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,011 words- 0:00 – 0:36
Introduction
- LFLex Fridman
The following is a conversation with Marc Normand, a New York comedian who has a way with words that is often both dark and hilarious. Let that be a warning, dear friends, to proceed with caution and to wear protection. You may in fact need it. He has a special on his YouTube called Out to Lunch and a new special on Netflix as part of the Stand Up season three series I recommend you watch. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description, and now here's my conversation with Marc Normand.
- 0:36 – 3:42
Love
- LFLex Fridman
I asked Tim Dillon about Bukowski first, so let me continue on that tradition and ask you about something that Charles Bukowski said about love. You know-
- MNMark Normand
Wait, are we rolling?
- LFLex Fridman
Yes. This-
- MNMark Normand
Oh, geez. No hello? No nothing.
- LFLex Fridman
Nope.
- MNMark Normand
I thought I was robotic.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) Bukowski said, "Love is a fog that burns away with the first daylight of reality." So, uh, Marc Normand, let me first ask you about love. Uh, what are your thoughts about love? You talk about your relationships quite a bit. Do you think love can last?
- MNMark Normand
I do, but I think it's work. Everybody wants love to be this pre-packaged, perfect, euphoric thing, but it, you gotta... It's like a, a good body, you know? We're all born with a good body, but you gotta keep it in shape, and it's the same with a, with a loving relationship.
- LFLex Fridman
I think you, uh-
- MNMark Normand
Nobody wants to do the work. That's the problem.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) You talked about... I think you told a story about being unfaithful to a previous girlfriend or something like that. I think the story goes that you were like drifting apart. Who were you talking to? Bert Kreischer maybe, or some-
- MNMark Normand
Oh, yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
... somebody like that? Drif-
- MNMark Normand
We were high school sweethearts. Dated for like 12 years and then...
- NANarrator
I didn't know how to...
- LFLex Fridman
So that wasn't love anymore. That was more like a relation- that was like... yeah.
- MNMark Normand
It was comfort. It was routine, and uh, we just slipped into that kind of married life autopilot world, and uh, I tried to break up I think, and it didn't take. It was one of those things. Our lives were just so baked in, and then I think I, uh, cheated and she caught me and it was ugly and then we went to therapy to try to work it out, but it's, it's much like a car that gets into a wreck. The door just never closes the same.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
You know what I mean?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. So...
- MNMark Normand
So...
- LFLex Fridman
What are your thoughts about then, um, commitment, like outside of love? Marriage?
- MNMark Normand
I think it's an antiquated idea. I think it's kind of silly and unrealistic, and I think we're coming out of that as we get all polyamorous and non-binary and queefy and all this stuff. I think we're slowly moving away from that, but uh, I think a lot of the ladies more, majority of women, like marriage, like the idea of it. Like I'm in a... I'm f- I'm a fiance now or whatever you call it.
- LFLex Fridman
Oh, yeah?
- MNMark Normand
I'm engaged, and I mean she is just woo-wee, going hog wild. She's loving it. She's got the dress thing, pick a venue, flower, and she's, she's deep in whereas I feel guilty because I'm just like ah, geez.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) Is it planned already? When's the wedding?
- MNMark Normand
Yeah. You see Squid Game? I'm just living life. Uh, yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
It's, it's, uh, planned. It's in New Orleans. I'm from there, and uh, it's next year.
- LFLex Fridman
Okay.
- 3:42 – 18:28
Childhood in New Orleans
- LFLex Fridman
New Orleans. You grow up in New Orleans?
- MNMark Normand
Yeah. Born and raised. Treme, outside the French Quarter. You ever been?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. Don't remember it.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, you drink?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, I drink.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, shit.
- LFLex Fridman
Of course I drink.
- MNMark Normand
I don't know. I can't tell if you have fun.
- LFLex Fridman
No, not really. But Russ- I mean Russian of course. I drink vodka, all that kind of stuff.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, right. You're Russian.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
You got to know.
- MNMark Normand
Vodka. Beer was just labeled an alcoholic beverage in 2011. Fun fact.
- LFLex Fridman
What do you mean?
- MNMark Normand
In Russia.
- LFLex Fridman
What was it?
- MNMark Normand
It was just drinks. It was just like apple juice before.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
It finally got declared legally as an alcoholic beverage.
- LFLex Fridman
Which means you can regulate it. That kind of thing.
- MNMark Normand
I guess so.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
See that's where your brain goes.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- MNMark Normand
I just go all these fucking Ruskies are ass.
- LFLex Fridman
I didn't even know there was rules about drinking.
- MNMark Normand
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
This is good. I'm learning about Russia from you. So, um, what's a difficult memory experience from childhood in New Orleans that, uh, made you the man you are today?
- MNMark Normand
Mm, I don't know if it made me the man, but uh, geez, I had a lot of uh, scuffles in the neighborhood with... I was the white kid in the neighborhood so I was automatically the odd man out, the minority, the weirdo, the dork, the dweeb, the honky. So, uh, just a lot of memories of like getting slapped in the face by guys and just having to take it 'cause there's like five guys there and they'd be like, "Oh look, he doesn't even fight back." And you're like, "Well, what am I gonna do? Hit you and then get beat up by these guys?" So a lot of that stuff was a big bummer growing up. Got robbed all the time. Lost a lot of bicycles. Had a bicycle taken from under me. That was pretty brutal. Uh, these kids pulled up. You know, I'm... They're like 17 and I was 13 and I had f- a face paint on. Like I had a... Not black face, but I was at a summer camp and I had f- a rainbow face painted on me. We were helping kids that day so I let them put paint on me and uh, so now I'm riding home. What a mark! Uh, what a, what a goober I am. I'm riding home and these guys see me a mile away. I'm a sitting duck and they go, "We can take his bike. He's got a fucking rainbow on his cheek." So uh, they just go, "Hey," you know like, err, cut in front of you. They go, "Let me try your bike." I go, "Oh, I'm good. I'm good." I knew what they wanted. And uh, they go, "Let me try the bike," and then they just pushed me and took the bike.
- 18:28 – 27:02
New York
- LFLex Fridman
Tom Waits said something about New York. You like Tom Waits?
- MNMark Normand
I think he's underrated. I think he's got great... He's got a great, uh... He's great at quips and quotes.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- MNMark Normand
He's... Check him out on, on YouTube. He's got some montages and super cuts of him being hilarious.
- LFLex Fridman
What does he say about, um, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy."
- MNMark Normand
That was the one.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, that's a good one.
- MNMark Normand
That was the one that sold me. I was like, "This guy is awesome."
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. But his music is... He's just a genius musician.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Anyway, he was talking about New York, and I was walking around these... I'm in New York right now. We're in New York right now. It's still a magical city to me.
- MNMark Normand
Agree.
- LFLex Fridman
A lot of people are quite cynical about it, about the state of things, but-
- MNMark Normand
Logan.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) Well, not, not like Michael Malice. Like, a lot of friends of mine, they're just... A lot of folks in San Francisco and New York, there's something about the pandemic where people have become quite cynical about the place they are and they tried to escape.
- MNMark Normand
Very true.
- LFLex Fridman
It's interesting. I mean, they're asking some difficult questions about where they are in life. They're having like a self-imposed midlife crisis. Is, it's good, I think, for everybody to go through this process. But I think... I hope New York reemerges-
- MNMark Normand
It will.
- LFLex Fridman
... as the flourishing place for the weirdos. Anyway, the... Tom Waits said, "New York," of course, "is to be an endless surreal situations where a $50,000 gunmetal Mercedes pulls up in a puddle of blood and out steps a 25 karat blonde with a two dollar wristwatch."
- MNMark Normand
Woo.
- LFLex Fridman
And he goes... He keeps going on. So like, it's like, um-
- MNMark Normand
That's like bars. He's like a rapper.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's good. Um, but basically just the absurdity of it all. Lots of money, lots of weirdos, uh, degenerates and dreamers and the whole, the whole mix of it. Do you think, um... Do you think that's an accurate description of what New York is today? Like, is, there still plays for the weirdos and just the interesting artists? The, the edgy, the comedians, the, the creators, the, the, the, the entrepreneurs, like, as opposed to, like, Wall Street, as opposed to, like, rich folk and then, like, hopeless folk?
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, I think it's definitely changed a lot. There's a, there's a tiny corner for us weirdo artists. New York used to be where you went to make it as a painter or whatever, a comedian or a singer, and there were all these dives and shit boxes and all these places you could go, and now there's a... now it's more Pinkberries and subway sandwiches and Chase Bank. So-
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
... it's definitely lost a lot of its, uh, creative edge. It's just money. Money keeps coming in and now you see all these comedians move to Nashville, Austin, Denver, whatever. So, uh, it doesn't have the, the power it used to have of like, "You gotta be here if you wanna make it." That's definitely gone. Uh, so that hurt the city a lot. The city is, is way more soulless. When I moved here in '07, I mean, not only did I get mugged three times in the first year, but it was a hub of like... It felt like things were happening here, you know? It was, it was an energy, it was electricity. And we still have the electricity, but it's also maybe just 'cause there's Times Square, there's SoHo, there's, uh, Wall Street. So we got the staples, but there is a little bit of that... It's almost like a marriage. Like, yeah, we're in love, but it, it's not as passionate as it once was. That's how I would equate New York.
- LFLex Fridman
What gives you hope? You're pretty hopeful about it, though.
- MNMark Normand
I'm hopeful just 'cause I know it's magical and I, and I think it has to be. I mean, it's the epicenter of America. Like, this is where the immigrants came and this is where the stock market is. And the entertainment industry, a lot of it is here. So I think it, it's, it's gonna happen, but it all... Something like the bottom has to fall out and then people have to move back here and all that. So something... The corporations are kind of fucking us. They're just buying everything.
- LFLex Fridman
Well, that's true for everything. Aust-
- MNMark Normand
That's true for everything.
- 27:02 – 36:15
LA vs NY
- MNMark Normand
- LFLex Fridman
What's the difference between, uh, LA comedy and New York comedy to you?
- MNMark Normand
Hm. I think one place you kinda go to make it and be discovered and be loved, and one place you go... You can, you can get all that in New York too but I think in New York it's more of a, a school, a boot camp of comedy. Let's make great comedy. Let's make original comedy. Let's watch the other guys and gals who are at the show, at the clubs and learn from them and try to hang out with them and, and absorb some of them. And uh, in LA it's like, "When am I on? I'm next. Get out of my way. I'm the star here. I'm a bigger star than you. Oh, this guy's actually a big star, I gotta outwork..." You know, it's just a lot of that instead of like, "Damn, that was funny. I gotta be that funny. Damn, I wish I had a joke." And look, I, I don't wanna speak for LA comics 'cause there's, you know, Bill Burr, Anthony Jeselnik-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
... these brilliant LA comics but they all cut their teeth in New York.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
Just saying. Then they moved to LA.
- LFLex Fridman
That's a good point, yeah.
- MNMark Normand
You know, Ali Wong, all these people. Killer comics but New York, started in New York, moved to New York.
- LFLex Fridman
There is something about comics that stay in New York for a long time though, like Dave Attell.
- MNMark Normand
Ah. You know about Dave?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah. He wants to do this podcast.
- MNMark Normand
He does?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. I'm a huge fan of Dave Attell.
- MNMark Normand
Wow. Yeah, he's a king.
- LFLex Fridman
But it's like, it almost like he doesn't want to make it.
- MNMark Normand
(laughs) Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
I don't know. I mean, you probably know him but like, it feels like you just... Uh, maybe it's romanticizing it but you're like, you almost just love the art of comedy-
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
... of like, becoming funnier, crafting the jokes, becoming funnier than the other comics, like competing with each other kinda thing. Not over like, money or fame or any of that-
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
... just, just purely the comedy of it.
- MNMark Normand
Totally. That's Dave. That's him in a nut. He's like that guy in the movies, in the '80s action movies where they're like, they go up to a, a creek in Montana and some guy's living in a cabin and he's sharpening a stick and they go, "The Russians are coming. They're invading. We need you. You're the best commando." And he's like, "I gave that up, man."
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
"I'm done with that lifestyle." They're like, "But you're the best. We need you." And he has to suit up eventually. You know, he looks at a picture of his dead wife and he goes, "Fuck it. I'm going." And then they, you know, fight the Ruskies. But uh, he's that guy. He just is gifted. He's like, got a gift from Allah and he's the best.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, a lot of comics give him props. That's so surprising to me. I didn't... 'Cause, 'cause, surprising to me because he hasn't really made it like big as-
- MNMark Normand
Well, he did in the '90s. He was huge. He had his own TV show, he was the-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah. That show was, that show was awesome. But I mean like, as big as I think he deserves to be so I-
- MNMark Normand
Well, that's art. The mainstream shit is always the worst.
- LFLex Fridman
The-
- 36:15 – 50:47
Advice for new comedians
- MNMark Normand
of psychos.
- LFLex Fridman
I mentioned to you offline, um, that I talked to Elon and we talked about doing standup that he's thinking maybe do a few minutes of standup.
- MNMark Normand
Ah, same... If you need a coach, Elon, I got ya.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) Um, well, maybe you should move to Austin to coach him full time.
- MNMark Normand
Ah. Hope they can fly me in.
- LFLex Fridman
So...What, what advice would you give to somebody who, um, who wants to try and do five minutes? Like, the early steps of, uh, trying to go to an open mic and say something funny.
- MNMark Normand
Well, that's the irony of comedy is... I don't know if it's irony, but it's like the beginning is the hardest part. Usually the beginning is the easy part. "Hey, I'm playing this level of Mario. I start, I jump over one Koopa Troopa, whatever." And then the end is like, "Jesus Christ, I got 30 guys coming at me."
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
Comedy's the opposite. The beginning is like, it's a gauntlet. It's just obstacles and it's like you said, open mics. You, I watch these famous comedians on Netflix and you go, "This would all bomb at an open mic." They're killing in, you know, Radio City.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
This would bomb at an open mic. That's the weird part. So it's almost like you have to go through hell just to get to the, the promised land. And, uh, I would say rehearse the shit out of it because you're gonna get frazzled up there. Everybody thinks, "Oh, this is good material." But you also forget about the other part of delivering it. Having confidence, being likable, having timing, having a cadence, figuring out who you are, figuring out what the audience thinks you are or how they perceive you. 'Cause you can go up there and say all this, but they go, "Why is the guy... He's clearly gay."
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
"Why is he acting like he's not gay?" You know, that's all they're... Now they're not listening to the jokes. So like-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
... you gotta know how you look. And, uh, it's just repetition, repetition, and bombing is not failure. That's what you gotta remember. I mean, look, if you, if you do a, a killer hour and then you take it to Netflix and bomb, you fucked up.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- MNMark Normand
But bombing is not failure, it's just data. It's going, "Oh, okay. I gotta re- retool that. That didn't work. Something's wrong there. They, I missed a word there." So you gotta treat the, uh, the act almost like, uh, like, uh, like ingredients in a, in a, in a cooking, in a dish. You know, like, "Oh, that, I put too many eggs in." Take an egg out. You gotta treat it like that. And look, when you pull a, a bad cake out of an oven, you go, "I fucked up," but it doesn't hurt your feelings. But when you bomb and fuck up, it hurts your feelings. So you gotta factor that in too. Your feelings are gonna be hurt and just almost be a robot and just keep going towards that open mic. You know how scary an open mic is? Bombing sucks, but bombing in front of other comedians is way worse 'cause they know what just happened and they could have saved you and they didn't. So it's way worse.
- LFLex Fridman
And th- they're gonna be your, quote unquote, "friends" for this-
- MNMark Normand
(laughs) Yeah, exactly.
- LFLex Fridman
... for this journey.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, no, these are evil people most of the time.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
Twisted, fucked up-
- LFLex Fridman
W- well-
- MNMark Normand
... hurt people.
- LFLex Fridman
Can you tell like in those early days, let's just talk about that, like at the open mic level, that a joke is gonna be good on paper? Like I'll, I'll give you my experience 'cause, uh, um, maybe you could be my coach in this particular moment.
- MNMark Normand
Please.
- LFLex Fridman
So, uh-
- MNMark Normand
You're like Larry Nassar.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- 50:47 – 52:50
Crafting jokes
- MNMark Normand
- LFLex Fridman
All right, so now let's skip the whole open mic thing and-
- MNMark Normand
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
... crafting jokes.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Uh-
- MNMark Normand
That's tough.
- LFLex Fridman
Kerouac said, "One day I will find the right words and they will be simple." When do you know the joke is done, it's perfect? You're, uh, somebody that does like, really sharp like, (snaps fingers) fast, uh, jokes well.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, thanks.
- LFLex Fridman
So like, there, there's somebody... I don't know. I don't know who you see yourself in the same school as, like Had... You're, you're-
- MNMark Normand
Mmm.
- LFLex Fridman
You're darker and faster than Hedberg, I think, in terms of like, just... I don't know, the turns you take are very f- (laughs)
- MNMark Normand
(laughs) Hey, thanks. I appreciate it. I think I got some Norm MacDonald and maybe-
- LFLex Fridman
Norm, Norm... That's right, Norm.
- MNMark Normand
You know?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
A little... Obviously Norm, but, uh, Chris Rock was huge for me. Chris R- old, like '90s Chris Rock was like, I didn't know you could do jokes like that. I always loved George Carlin and Groucho Marx and Bill Murray. There's so many different types of comedy, but, uh, when I saw the Bigger and Blacker Bring the Pain, I was like, "Oh my God." This like, it hit me, so that was big. And then Norm's just like the funniest guy on the planet, so him, him being the smartest guy in the room but acting dumb was great. So, uh, yeah, uh, Chris Rock has that way of cutting to the, the bullshit, which I, I mentioned earlier. I like that cutting through the bullshit kind of style of comedy because you kind of go, "Oh, I'm not crazy. That's what I thought too. I was too scared to say it, but I thought that and he's saying it and a room of people are laughing. Maybe I'm not an idiot." So that helped me.
- LFLex Fridman
So it's observational, but not Jerry Sein-
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
... ph- observational. It's like, look, going to the darker thing-
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
... to, to the like, within society.
- MNMark Normand
It's also great, but... I like him too, but seeing it, doing it about stuff like, in your life, society.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. Race, gender, government-
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
... politics, all that kind of stuff.
- MNMark Normand
Exactly.
- LFLex Fridman
Getting in there.
- MNMark Normand
Exactly. Sex, human emotions, jealousy, whatever it is. That, that's the good stuff.
- 52:50 – 1:00:22
Norm Macdonald
- MNMark Normand
- LFLex Fridman
How'd you feel when Norm passed away?
- MNMark Normand
Ah, that was a bummer because, uh, he was, you know, what? 61? And uh, I just didn't see it coming and I just... I've, I've watched so many hours of his stuff and I've, I've met him and he- he's like... He was like this comedic bar, like, "Hey, we got Norm," you know? There's so much shit comedy, then you see Norm and you're like, "This is next level. This is savant type shit." And then to lose him is like, ah. Norm had m- 20 more years at least of just content and content and thoughts and his point of view and that's... We'll never get that and that sucks.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. There is something about artists, like Jimi Hendrix dying-
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
... too early. It's like, you wonder.
- MNMark Normand
What was next?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. What was next? But then part of it is like, um... You know, it all ends for all of us and it's... Like, walking away early is, um... It's kind of admirable. It's almost like, "I did a pretty good job."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
"I'm, uh, I'm, I'm good with that." And especially the way he did, which is not telling anybody.
- MNMark Normand
I know. Nine years, his best friends didn't even know, and in this world of like, victimhood and I need clicks and I need people to love me, he could have... He got, you know, canceled and yelled at and in trouble and he could have pulled that cancer card and he never did. I mean, the integrity on this motherfucker.
- LFLex Fridman
Did you get a chance to interact with him? Like what... How much... How often did you meet him?
- MNMark Normand
I met him once at the Comedy Cellar and we chatted for five minutes and then he went on and did the, the Letterman set that he did. He was running the Letterman set, and uh, sweet guy, nice guy. I didn't know him that well, but... I mean, he's just brilliant and I also love a brilliant guy who does stupid stuff. That's a fun, fun little combo there, like silly guys who are actually brilliant also. You know, like Louis C.K. is a brilliant comic and he'll do a, a joke about farting on a kid and you're like, that's great that he still finds farts funny and he's also this comedic genius guy.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
I like that.
- LFLex Fridman
It doesn't really acknowledge the genius.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah. Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Like that's... yeah. I like, I like smart people that are silly.
- MNMark Normand
Yes. That's a good combo.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
Like you said Elon is silly.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah,
- NANarrator
super silly.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, that's great.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
'Cause we, we taught, we teach kids like, "Hey put that down. Stop that. Quit cutting up. Quit horsing around." But maybe that's some kind of sign of brilliance there.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. Being like childlike and silly-
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
... is, is a kind of wisdom.
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- 1:00:22 – 1:04:34
Favorite medium
- LFLex Fridman
Uh, what, like as a comedian, so I'm, I'm a fan of yours. I enjoy, I really enjoy you in conversations. Like 'cause you're-
- MNMark Normand
Wow. Now? I'm getting nothing out of you.
- LFLex Fridman
No, I'm, this, this is... (laughs)
- MNMark Normand
All right. I can't tell.
- LFLex Fridman
Oh, like emotion?
- MNMark Normand
Well, you're a tough nut to read.
- LFLex Fridman
I'm cold inside.
- MNMark Normand
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
I mean, just the quickness you have. Uh, uh, obviously you're also a great standup comedian. What's your favorite medium to shine in? So you have, uh, a podcast yourself, an excellent podcast.
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm. Thanks.
- LFLex Fridman
Um, you're often the podcast guest.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Um, which is always fun to listen to, how you're gonna deal with the different people.
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
You're great on Rogan.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, thanks.
- LFLex Fridman
Um-What, what, what do you enjoy most?
- MNMark Normand
Podcasts are great because you can, you can stretch out a little more, you can breathe a little. You know, with a standup set, I like to be like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, but podcasts are great 'cause it's conversational so you can be ... It's almost like you're being funny with your friends.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
Whereas the stage is like a, this is a piece, this is a presentation. Uh, but I think the, the podcast is great, but you don't get the reaction. Unless the host is laughing, you can't hear the guy in his car in New Jersey driving to work going, "Ah!" Every now and then I'll read a comment like, "I spit out my coffee when you said this," and I'm like ... But it's not immediate. You want the immediate. So standup will always be number one, but there's no better feeling than killing in a room of people who don't know who you are, strangers, you're in the middle of nowhere, you left your wife at home, you left your kids, you left your house. You're in the middle of Bumfuck, Dickville and murdering for these hillbilly, nobody, whatever it is.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
And they're slinging their beers and woo! Cheering you on and they carry you out and you fuck some fat lady and you leave and you get back to your hotel and you go, "Holy shit, what was that?" No one will ever know about it, just lost in the ether. That's the best feeling.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
Killing in obscurity, as Bill Burr would say.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, this is one of the things that sucks about giving lectures, like at universities or giving lectures in general, is when you look at, uh, the audience, you know, several hundred students, they're all have a bored look on their face.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, of course.
- LFLex Fridman
Like even, like my, my face now probably looks bored, but I'm actually excited to be talking to you.
- MNMark Normand
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
But there's something about just, uh, there's something about a comedy club, maybe the s- the contagion of laughter, but like, it gives people the freedom to just laugh, to like s-
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- 1:04:34 – 1:10:55
Austin
- LFLex Fridman
What do you think about Austin? What do you think about the comedy scene in Austin? We talked about LA and New York. What do you think about what Joe's trying to create there? So I l- I'll t- I, I should say that the reason I moved to Austin, I have this dream of, uh, li- wouldn't it be funny if I said this dream of becoming a comedian?
- MNMark Normand
Oh God.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
You got an audience at least.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, that's true. You know, I always said you can hear the music in the distance. I, you know, I have this dream around robotics and artificial intelligence, whether it's a company, whether it's something else that, uh, was just pulling me to do ... I actually wanted to move to San Francisco and then all my friends in San Francisco said, "No, it's the wrong place."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
To, to, uh ... It's no, it's, at this time, the, the cyn- the cynicism there is just not conducive to like taking big leaps into the unknown, excited about the future kind of thing. And, and Austin was that, uh, w- with, um, for me in particular with Elon Musk, but also just the energy that everybody had, including Joe, the excitement about the future.
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
I don't, I don't care if Austin burns to the ground and it actually is a complete failure. Uh, being excited about the future seems to be, like optimism about the future seems to be the thing, uh, that actually makes that future happen, makes a great future happen. So it's always cool for me to see, uh, like Joe super excited about creating like, um, a culture in Austin, like a, making it a comedy hub like ...
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
I don't want to overstate it, but he, I mean, I think he really believes it's, it'll be a very big place for comedy-
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
... in the United States in general, in the world. And so just even believing that, that's powerful. Like ...
- MNMark Normand
I agree.
- LFLex Fridman
... 'cause you start to make it, you start to make it happen. That energy, uh, is there. Anyway, so but that's for me from just an outsider watching, uh, the fun of it. I should also mention for less of an outsider, more insider of, in the martial arts world, partially probably because of Joe, I'm not sure, but John Danaher, uh, Gordon Ryan, the B Team, all of those folks, those are ... That might be gibberish to you.
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
But, uh, those are like some of the greatest grapplers and martial artists of all time.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, really?
- LFLex Fridman
So it's also becoming this hub-
- MNMark Normand
Ooh.
- LFLex Fridman
... of martial arts.
- MNMark Normand
I didn't know that.
- LFLex Fridman
So the whole, the whole thing is, is just beautiful. Anyway, what, uh, what are your thoughts about that scene? Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
Well, there's a lot, lot here, a lot of things to mention. One, I think Joe did do that to an, uh, at a degree, you know? Like all these people, Segura lives there now, a lot of comics live there. He's opening clubs. Other clubs are opening.I think it's happening. That's the other thing is people go, "Everybody's moving to Austin. Austin's the new hub," and then they look at their watch and they go, "Five minutes went by and nothing changed." It's gonna take years, you know, but everybody wants it now, now, now. Um, "What? Austin? There's no industry there," you know, "There's no Netflix, whatever." And you're like, "Yeah, I know, but it, it needs a minute. You can't just do this overnight." So people forget that. So it could happen, huge, just give it some time. I mean, he's opening a club. I went and saw it. It's incredible. Like, it's so perfect for comedy, it's every detail, it's incredible. But, uh, so... it could happen still. I do think we're ƒ there's a little biting off more than they can chew with Austin because it's not that big. So like-
- LFLex Fridman
And it's spread out. I mean, yeah, it's not big. And the, and the infrastructure's not quite there-
- MNMark Normand
Exactly.
- LFLex Fridman
... to support it. But it has a lot of, uh, you know, comparing from my, from the tech side for, uh, it has a lot of land to expand into.
- MNMark Normand
True.
- LFLex Fridman
So it might become this, um-
- MNMark Normand
That helps.
- 1:10:55 – 1:12:27
Sending people to space
- LFLex Fridman
So w- what are your thoughts about, uh, Elon Musk and SpaceX and launching rockets into space? Like-
- MNMark Normand
I think it's all good because you could say, "Hey, we could just feed everybody," and it's like, yeah, that's true. By the way, these guys give a ton of money to, like, philanthropy shit that nobody cares about, by the way. You know, it's weird. Like, "He could feed, uh, Ni- Nigeria and, with pocket change of his." And you're like, "Well, maybe he has."
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
You know, like, I heard Bill Gates gave back so much money, he saved six million lives.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
But that's a reverse Holocaust, by the way. That's pretty good. What have you done? You're a barista. So, uh, you know, I, I just think, uh, I think space travel is good because you learn about the place you're living in from going to space. It kind of helps you learn about this more. You could say, "What's the point of going, there's nothing there." But it, it, it does help, I think.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, doing difficult things in the engineering space seems to be a way to develop, like, as a, as almost like an accident, as a side effect of doing a really difficult thing in a team of brilliant people. Y- you develop things like the internet.
- MNMark Normand
That's it.
- LFLex Fridman
And you can argue that the internet maybe is not so good for society. No, I'm just kidding. I-
- MNMark Normand
It's good and bad.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. But-
- MNMark Normand
But it's like a pull-up. You're trying to get your bicep going, but hey, b- before you know it, you got decent forearms.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- MNMark Normand
But you weren't working on the forearms, you wanted the bi, but you got the fore. And I think that's kind of what space travel is.
- LFLex Fridman
I like how this, like, pivoted into, uh, to a workout routine advice-
- MNMark Normand
(laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
... with Mark Rober-
- MNMark Normand
I'm trying to get, uh, an analogy going here.
- LFLex Fridman
All right. It worked pretty well.
- MNMark Normand
I'll take it.
- 1:12:27 – 1:15:59
Robots with human emotion
- MNMark Normand
- LFLex Fridman
All right. What are your thoughts about... since I'm a robotics person, I'd be curious to see, like, what, um, do you think about the space at all about, first of all, autonomous vehicles with, uh, Tesla Autopilot and, uh, Waymo self-driving car? I'm not sure if you're familiar with all the autonomous vehicles and so on.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
So those are-
- MNMark Normand
Got one.
- LFLex Fridman
... robots on wheels, and then there's also legged robots. So next time you're in Austin, you get to meet some of the legged robots-
- MNMark Normand
I would love to.
- LFLex Fridman
... uh, been working on. And I, I find those kind of, um, a fascinating way to explore the nature of intelligence in our computers, but also explore our own intelligence and also explore our own, um-Like, what makes us connect to other living beings, whether it's dogs, cats or other humans. Like-
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- LFLex Fridman
... there's some magic there-
- MNMark Normand
Of course.
- LFLex Fridman
... that, that's beyond just intelligence. And I, like when I have the robot dog, there's some aspect to it that, I don't know, brings me joy in a way that a dog does, in a way that a good friend does.
- MNMark Normand
Really?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. I mean-
- MNMark Normand
Oh, that's interesting.
- LFLex Fridman
And s- I'm not sure if that's some kind of anthropomorphism, like where I'm projecting-
Episode duration: 1:50:07
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