Lex Fridman PodcastNeil Adams: Judo, Olympics, Winning, Losing, and the Champion Mindset | Lex Fridman Podcast #427
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,046 words- 0:00 – 1:46
Introduction
- NANeil Adams
When we go to the dojos there, we all get thrown by people that never come out to-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
... be world champions. You know, they're, they're just in the mix or they're going through three years of university and then they go. We, we had a guy-
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
(laughs) Y- y- you did-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
We had a guy that came in. He was a business guy. He came in-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
... with his suitcase and his tie up like that. And he's, he's in his lunch hour. He's in his lunch hour, right?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
So he's gotta be quick.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. (laughs)
- NANeil Adams
(laughs) So he comes in and he goes through ... He's working his way through the whole of the British team.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- NANeil Adams
And we're all lined up, right? 10 minutes later, he's just, just-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
... tying his tie up like that, you know?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
And off b- back to work like that, you know? Imagine him sitting behind his desk in his computer.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah, I'm glad he didn't get out. (laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) Who do you think wins, Yamashita versus-
- NANeil Adams
I think Yamashita but, but I, you know, I-
- LFLex Fridman
Y- w- w- w- w- w- w-
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
You think Yamashita beats Teddy Riner?
- NANeil Adams
I think so.
- LFLex Fridman
Strong words. The following is a conversation with Neil Adams, a legend in the sport of judo. He is a world champion, two-time Olympic silver medalist, five-time European champion, and often referred to as the voice of judo. Commentating all the major events, world championships and Olympic Games, highlighting the drama, the triumph, the artistry of the sport of judo. Making fans like me feel the biggest wins, the biggest losses, the surprise turns of fortune, the dominance of champions coming to an end, and new champions made. Always speaking from the heart. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description and now, dear friends, here's Neil Adams.
- 1:46 – 19:09
1980 Olympics
- LFLex Fridman
You are a five-time European champion, world champion, two-time Olympic silver medalist. Let's first go to the 1980 Olympics. Where was your mind? What was your preparation like? What was your strategy leading into that Olympics?
- NANeil Adams
That was my first Olympic Games, so my preparation was a little bit different to how it was the, uh, '84 and the '88 Olympic Games. And, um, I'd kind of done part of the preparation as well for '76 Olympic Games. I wasn't quite old enough for those, but I was first reserve. So in 1980, I'd had four years build up and I was hungry and I was one of these young athletes, and I see them so often now, that was developing and, you know, full of ... I wouldn't say I was full of myself, but I was, I was certainly confident of my ability and, uh, I wanted to conquer the world. And I'd had a couple of really, uh, tight matches with the current Olympic world champions, so I knew that, uh, there was a possibility that I could get there for the '80 Olympics. So, uh, building up to the '80 Olympics was, um, was quite interesting because I was kind of coming through the weights and I was halfway in between the 71 kilos weight category and the, um, the higher weight category of 78 kilograms. And, um, I'd got third place at the '79 World Championships, the weight below, fought the whole year at the higher weight category. Didn't win a- lose a contest, so I'd beaten everybody in the world and, uh, and then I had to make the decision as to whether to drop to the weight below because I was seeded in the weight below. It was a different seeding then, see, a- and, um ... So I decided to drop into the weight below because I was seeded in the top four and, um, a- a- as it happens, I think it was probably the worst decision I made.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- NANeil Adams
Well, because-
- LFLex Fridman
Whoa. (laughs)
- NANeil Adams
S- simply because-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
... I mean, it was the only contest that I lost was the final of the Olympic Games in that year.
- LFLex Fridman
So you're a young kid. Like, what, like, 19, 20 at that time?
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Full of confidence, vigor. So the decision to cut weight. How hard was it for you to cut weight to the 71 kg division?
- NANeil Adams
I've got to say that it was the hardest because as I was going up, I was, you know, it was 73, then it was 74 kilos, 75. So I was moving through the weight category. It wasn't like I was stuck in the middle and then I dropped the odd time to compete. It was literally going up in weight, um, by a kilo every, (laughs) every month. And then by the time I came to a month or two before the Olympics, it was really hard. Fought the European Championships at the higher weight category and won that. And so everybody that was in the, uh, o- on the Olympic rostrum, um, at the, um, European ... Uh, at the Olympic Games was on my rostrum at the, uh, European Championships.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
So, um, was it a mistake? Yeah, because m- I didn't have my diet sorted out, my nutrition was appalling, and when I ... You know, it wasn't as kind of readily available as it is now for the nu- nutrition. And I would say that if, um, anything lost me that final, other than the fact that I was fighting somebody who was terrific, you know, he was a, a, an excellent, brilliant athlete, but, um, definitely didn't help that my nutrition was, was not very good.
- LFLex Fridman
Okay, so you lost to Etio Gama. There's probably a lot of ... That we could say about that particular match. Maybe let's zoom in. What were your strengths and weaknesses, judo-wise, in that Olympics? You said you haven't really lost a match, you won the European Championship leading into it, but if you had weak spots ... Okay, you already said diet. But specifically on the mat, in terms of judo.
- NANeil Adams
I think that none of the fights lasted time going into the final, you know, so I, I won fairly quickly and, uh, every match by ippon, you know, way before time.
- LFLex Fridman
Do you remember how? Do you remember how you won the matches?
- NANeil Adams
I won them by throw ... A couple of throws, uh, for ippon, and then a arm lock, uh, for ippon. Semi-final was, uh, an arm lock against the East German, uh, Kruger....and, uh, yeah, I just- I was flying through, you know?
- LFLex Fridman
What were the throws? Do you remember?
- NANeil Adams
Taito Shi Uchi Mata, uh, my favorite kind of, um, uh, tokuzawa, one of my favorite throws. And, uh, and then a juji-gatame as well, to, you know, which was a juji-gatame roll. Against an East German who I'd beaten before, but always had a really tough match. But, uh, managed to beat him well.
- LFLex Fridman
So you had a beautiful exhibition of, uh, Japanese-type judo in the first two matches.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
You threw people and then you also did the newaza. You just arm-barred a person. Great, so you- going into the final. What are the weaknesses going into the final against the Italian?
- NANeil Adams
Like I say, taking nothing away from him as a great athlete and a brilliant judo man. And, um, and left, which wasn't good for me. That was definite no, 'cause I hated fighting lefties. Still do.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- NANeil Adams
(laughs) But I'll tell you why in a minute. I just did.
- LFLex Fridman
That's great.
- NANeil Adams
It's one of those. And- but I think, as I went through the contest, uh, we, we had an eight-hour break from the semifinal to the final. They took us back to the Olympic Village, then we had to come back in, and then we had to start a warm-up again, you know? So I kind of lost my momentum. I had to start again. And I never- I didn't. I just didn't. I had a job to get going, I got halfway through, started to rescue a dying match and, um, you know, I was kind of one step, half a step behind all the way through. So I never really got into it.
- LFLex Fridman
So why do you hate fighting lefties? And lefties are, we should say, overrepresented in terms of, uh, the high ranks of judo. I don't know why that is.
- NANeil Adams
Well, you know, the thing is about a lefty, is a lefty will have more opportunity to fight righties, you know, right-handers. 'Cause I mean, 70- 70% of the, uh, population are right-handers, 30% left. So they get to fight more right-handers.
- 19:09 – 27:14
Judo explained
- NANeil Adams
as well.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm. So, can you speak to that? What are the different styles of judo? So for you, you mentioned Uchimata Teitoshi, these, these-
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
... uh, how would you describe them? They're like these effortless, less lifting off the ground and power, and like strength and expon- and more timing, and position.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah, movement. Momentum.
- LFLex Fridman
Movement, momentum.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
All this kind of stuff. That's more traditionally associated with Japanese judo. Because like for Japanese judo, the traditional judo, like you're supposed to throw people in a big way without much effort.
- NANeil Adams
And of course, we, uh, 1990 we saw the introduction of, uh, all these, um, Eastern Bloc, uh, countries, you know, the, um, st- there were so many more. I mean, it was Soviet Union when I was competing, and then of course in 1990 everything changed. And then there were so many more of them out there, different countries where, you know, that- that their wrestling styles were- were introduced into judo. You know, put a jacket on them and let's get into judo. So judo kind of changed shape. It- it changed shape from this upright standing, you know, the... And- and having to know the technicalities of how to get a- a body that's weighing 40, you know, um, uh, 14 stone, or you know, whatever it is, up into the air. And, uh, using the momentum and the balance and the direction and- and- and the skill to do that, and knowing how to do it, you know, and how to use movement. And then you get, you know, the wrestlers and- and- and their, the leg picks, and the double leg, single leg, double legs, and uh, you know, and it kind of... By 1995, you know, judo was- was bent over.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
And so it was the IOC that went to IJF, International Judo Federation, and they said, "You got to change this or we're just going to have one wrestling style." It looks like wrestling with judo, uh, with their judo jackets on. "So you either change it, or we're going to take one of you out."
- LFLex Fridman
By the way, we should sort of clarify, when we say people are bent over, that's usually how you see freestyle wrestling. Wrestlers are more bent over to defend their legs and so on, and traditional judo people are more standing up, because that's the position from which you can do the big throws and all that kind of stuff. But, uh, I think the other case to make for, uh, banning leg grabs is, you know, a lot of people are using it for stalling and not for beautiful big throws and all that kind of stuff.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
So it's not just, not to make it different f- from wrestling, it's- it's also like you want to maximize the amount of epic throws, and, uh, dynamic judo, and exciting stuff to watch, right?
- NANeil Adams
Yeah. Win by judo, not- not by wrestling. And I think that, you know, the ones that were shouting about it were the wrestlers, right? Because they- they- they like to compete with both, they like, they want to do both. They want to do...
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
... you know, their wrestling matches and- and then come into judo.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs) Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
So what basically, I mean, what- what we've said is, "Then learn to do judo, and there's nothing stopping you then from doing both," right? But not from the other way around. All right? So rules always dictate development. They'll always dictate which direction it goes. So if you introduce a rule that states that you cannot dive at the legs and just pick up, um, then you'll have to do it standing up. And also, it- it increases the possibility of defense with the hips. Because actually, um, good defense judo-wise, standing up, is with the hips, as opposed to sticking your arms out and then sticking your backsides out there just to defend. All right? So if you attack me and I- I- I move my body in the wrong place, so I'm in the right, wrong place at the right time, so you don't hit the right target, and then also I use my hips. You know? So, uh, again, it's- it's a form of, uh, judo that, um, was being lost. So now we got it back.
- LFLex Fridman
W- so let's go there. Let's- let's speak about judo as if we're talking to a group of five-year-olds. So what- what is judo? What are some defining characteristics of judo as a sport, as a way, as a martial art, as a way of life, all that kind of stuff?
- NANeil Adams
I think, you know, when you say it is a way of life, I mean the, um, I think the- the great advantage that we have in judo, my young grandson, so I got two- two little boys that are three and a half years of age, love going to our dojo. They love it, you know? So dojo was the first word that they used.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- NANeil Adams
It was one of the first... So when they come and see us, you know-
- LFLex Fridman
That's great.
- NANeil Adams
... so they see my wife and I, you know, it's like, "Dojo." (laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- NANeil Adams
It's not grandma or granddad, you know?
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
It's a d- dojo. So dojo, they take their shoes off-
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- 27:14 – 45:28
Winning
- LFLex Fridman
do you love winning or hate losing more?
- NANeil Adams
I hate losing more. But I love winning. When I won the world title the year later, and, um, I had no doubt when I went in that day that I was gonna be world champion. No doubt.
- LFLex Fridman
So you won the, uh, '81 world championship? May-
- NANeil Adams
At the higher weight.
- LFLex Fridman
At the high ... Or the 78-
- NANeil Adams
Yes.
- LFLex Fridman
... kg. Um, actually can we go there? What, what, what was going through your mind? You ended up arm barring a Japanese fighter. I talked to Jimmy Pedro, uh, a friend of yours, somebody who said you were a mentor to him for many years, and he's told me a bunch of different questions to ask you. But he said that was a really special time. That was a really special, like, dominant run you had. Um, and especially finishing with an arm bar against a Japanese player. So take me through that. What do you remember from that?
- NANeil Adams
I think that it was, uh ... So my weight was better.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
I didn't have to lose weight.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
That was one thing. So the nutritional (laughs) side wasn't as important, but probably, you know, it still wasn't as good as it could be, my nu- nu- nutrition. Uh, although it was getting better and I was, uh, trying to eat the right things at the right time. Um, but I still trained really well, and I was so confident there going into that world championships that I could win it. I had no doubt in my mind that I was gonna win. But, you know, obviously, uh, corner of your mind you're thinking, um, "Just don't make mistakes." But, you know, this is the incredible thing is, is that once you start to ask y- Wha- wh- once ... I see contests change direction when I'm commentating.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
So I can see somebody who's in there just going forward just trying to win.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
All right? So th- And that's different to somebody who's trying not to lose.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
And there's two different ways there, you know. So sometimes when you are ... So when I was world champion, uh, then I had a period of time where every time I stepped out there, I was really afraid of losing.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
And, um, and I think that that's what happens later on in your competitive career, you know. The great champions manage to come through that. Teddy Riner is one of those, you know. He, he just, he puts it out there and he keeps beating them, you know, so they can't take it away from him, you know. It's, it's, it's fantastic.
- LFLex Fridman
So stepping on the mat, every single encounter, you're trying to win. You're looking for the grips and the ... With the intention to throw, throw big, even when you're ahead on points, all that kind of stuff.
- NANeil Adams
That's a really good point is that if you go ahead in a match, and you look at the clock, and ... It depends when you go ahead.
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- NANeil Adams
So like sometimes you can go ahead in the first minute and you've still got three minutes to go. So I see the ones then that go into, "I don't want to lose," 'cause they go into defensive mode. And then sometimes they can lose it on penalties or something can go wrong, and, uh, the other one comes on strong, and then they can, uh, sneak the contest. And so, um, it's, it's really difficult. But what ... Uh, when I was coaching, I was trying to always encourage...... that positive attitude for the full four minutes, five minutes then.
- LFLex Fridman
I've competed a lot in judo and jujitsu. I've always hated that part of myself. When I'm up on points by a lot and you look at the clock, and it's what you do when you look at the clock.
- NANeil Adams
(laughs) That's it.
- LFLex Fridman
It's minute and a half, you're really tired, and you kind of quit. You just defend.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
And-
- NANeil Adams
You go-
- 45:28 – 54:29
1984 Olympics
- LFLex Fridman
You were the favorite to win the 1984 Olympics, but you got silver. I watched that match several times. You probably having... Have it playing in your head. So there is a, a nice change of direction by your opponent, German Frank Winnecke.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
It was a fake right uchimata, and then to a left drop seoinage. Uh, how did that loss feel?
- NANeil Adams
Devastating is, is not... You know, is not enough really. Um, because I... You know, uh, the strange thing was, is coming into that Olympics, I was tired, really tired. So my mental state wasn't the best, wasn't certainly the same as it was coming into the previous. Um, and I, I w-... I remember thinking, "I just need to get this over with and then I can have a break and just have a rest." You know? And, and that's totally the wrong attitude, you know? (laughs) It's just not, not good for, for going into an Olympic Games. And, uh, so I, I was, uh, coming in there with a different mindset. And I remember every match that I had, I was winning well, but I was winning with a struggle. You know, it was, it was really not... I'd fought Novak and I was pretty, uh... Of France, who was one of the strongest physically. Uh, that was in the quarterfinals. I beat Brett Barron, uh, by an Ippon. I'd, I, I arm locked him. Um, I won my first match by Ippon as well. And then Michel Novak I was fighting of France, and I was lucky to w- to, to win it. I was up, I had scored on him, but I was like starting to defend and just everything that I talked to you about, you know, and then just about held on and, and then I won and, you know. So him and I were talking afterwards, like some years afterwards, and he said, "I was close, wasn't I?" I was, I said, "Ah, but not close enough." (laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- NANeil Adams
No, no, no, no. (laughs) I didn't mean it.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- NANeil Adams
All right? But I had to say it, right? (laughs)
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course.
- NANeil Adams
So I... And... No, he was right, you know. It... And it was one of those... So I went through to the semifinal. I fought Lesak, uh, in the semifinal of, uh... And, uh, I'd fought him in the semifinal of the worlds as well. Uh, I'd never gone time with him, you know. I'd never... I'd always beaten him fairly easily and with... By Ippon, and, um, that went time. So I was... You know, I was, uh, just, just glad to get it done. And I was in the final then against Frank Winiker, uh, of, uh, Germany. And I'd beaten Winiker before, but he was just a young German coming through. And when I started the final, I was, uh, I thought, "Right, I've just..." I... And I started, uh, all my techniques just that little bit off. Nothing was coordinated.... just, it was just... I can't really explain why it was just a little bit off. And I, I see it so often now, with, um, a lot of the, uh, guys that are going for second, third Olympic Games and, uh, I see their, their technique just not quite there, and they're struggling and, and I know when they... you know, I know what they're going through and I g- kind of empathize with them.
- LFLex Fridman
Well, you were... it felt like you were dominating that final.
- NANeil Adams
I dominated it. Yeah, I was winning, yeah, I was-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
I, I... And, and actually, if it had gone another minute and a half, it would have been all over and I would have been Olympic champion and it would have been done.
- LFLex Fridman
Okay.
- NANeil Adams
He wouldn't have batted an eyelid, right-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
... 'cause he, he would have fought me really, really well.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
And he would have... You know, we talked about it afterwards and he said, "It was just my... good day for me," you know, and he knows, he was very respectful.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
This guy is very respectful.
- LFLex Fridman
He was, uh, surprised almost. I mean, not almost, he was very surprised and celebrating like a, a surprise-
- NANeil Adams
No, jumping up and down like-
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
... you know, he just... And, you know, you got to look at that, can't you, though? Well, it was an ippon but, you know, would I have got it back? I don't know. But it's... I think that, um, actually taking the pressure off, 'cause that was another thing as well, pressure of being favorite, you know, and I see that with a lot of them.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
And, uh, you know, the great champions are the ones that keep coming through. Kopellec, there's a guy, you know, he could look very ordinary and then comes the big tournament and he'll, he'll win it.
- LFLex Fridman
(inhales) The tragedy of the Olympic Games. I mean, you were the favorite and just like that, like split moment, you lost it.
- NANeil Adams
Split moment. Devastating. And, um, lived it probably ev- not every day, but you know, uh, Nicki, my wife, will tell you that, uh, woken up in sweats and, uh, and, you know, um, I... And I think that contributed as well because I had a period of my, my life after, where I was drinking too much and, you know, and, and I, I think kind of, uh, when I look back, it kind of led into those... that, that kind of dark period of my life, you know? And, um, I never ever, ever, you, you know, did it go through my mind anything else, but it definitely affected me and I was on a downward kind of spiral in a lot of different ways. And, um, would still even... You know, when we... we have an amazing marriage and we have a amazing family and, and everything's great, but I still wake up sometimes and I'll say, "I've just dreamt," you know, that... And it's the same reoccurring dream where I'm trying to get somewhere and I'm trying to put it right, you know, and I, I, I've got this chance of, uh, putting this Olympic final right, you know. In, in, in this dream, I've got a chance of doing it but I can't get there and the traffic's stopping me or something stops me and I, uh, you know, and then I wake up and I'm sweating and it, it's, uh... And you think, "Well, after all this time, that's not possible." But it is, and it happens.
- 54:29 – 1:10:11
Lessons from losing
- LFLex Fridman
So in the book, A Game of Throws, you have a chapter titled Lessons in Losing. So, what are some of the lessons here? What are the some of the deeper lessons you've pulled out of losing?
- NANeil Adams
I think great champions are made up of the people that handle it in the right way. And you could say, "Well, I- I don't like losing." And I, you know, and you could throw your dummy out the pram and you can be a bad loser in front of everybody. And actually, people pick up on that very, very quickly. You know what it's like in broadcasting, right?
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
Somebody has a- a bad word to say about somebody and-
- LFLex Fridman
Yep.
- NANeil Adams
... yep. And you, it, but, but actually, the ones that endear themselves to you are the ones that handle it in the right way, the correct way. Doesn't mean that you've got to like it. I didn't like it, and, uh, I thought that I handled it, certainly in later years, in the right way. Uh, and I like to see athletes do it in the right way, you know? And I- I think that's a, it's a make or break situation. It's not, not all the contest they win, it's the one that they lose, and then how they pick themselves up and handle themselves after. So I think, um, that, that is a big one for me. And also, I mean, I, I went through, you know, o- obviously a later divorce, and, um, that was difficult on my son, really difficult on Ashley. And then I was... And I think that some of that was the fact that I was, you know, kind of... I wasn't drinking all the time, but I was drinking in excess at the wrong times, you know? And I think that that's what a lot of people do sometimes, is that they use it for the wrong reasons, you know. And I, I used to hear it, I s- I hear it now all the time, you know, and is that, you know, I, I need to knock the edge off, and I need, need to just forget, and I need to, uh, you know, uh, and, and you need to be in a fuzzy place for a while. And, uh, I had a lot of time in a, in fuzzy place, and I needed to get rid of that, you know, and I needed to clear my head.
- LFLex Fridman
Where was that place? The, some of the lower points in your life that you've reached mentally?
- NANeil Adams
I think, you know, definitely, you know, the fact that, um, my marriage, first marriage, didn't work, you know. And that was a, you know, a, it's a mix of things, the, you know, between us. And, and then, you know, so that's not where I wanted to be at the time, and the effects that it had on my son, and it took a long time for him then to come round and to, to trust me again, you know, and, um, and to have belief. He always had belief in me. But, um, to trust me again. And then, um, I think that that was low. And, and I think that, you know, when I look back, is that, um, a lot of my bad decisions were when I was in that fuzzy kind of haze, and, uh, that it, it got progressively worse. That got progressively worse, uh, to the degree where it was, you know, trying to hide it and trying to hide how much, uh, and I was kind of a functioning kind of drunk. Uh, you know, I, I think you could probably say that. And I, you know, I was functioning. I was still able to... I was still training most days, crazily enough. You know, I was training to kind of mask it and cover it, and that was probably my savior, that I was still... You know, 'cause I r- I remember I said to my wife, uh, I said to Nicky, um, "I'm probably the fittest... If, if I'm, you know, a drunk, then I'm a fittest drunk th- in the world." She said, "Yeah, you probably are, actually." (laughs) You know what I mean?
- LFLex Fridman
(laughs)
- NANeil Adams
I was in great condition for a drunk.
- LFLex Fridman
So the, the, the fuzzy haze, w- where w- was your mind? Did you have periods of depression?
- NANeil Adams
I had, uh, periods of depression. I, I can honestly say that d- that my depression wasn't that bad, although I did... You know when, it's like anything that gives you an up, you know, it gives you a, an even bigger down, doesn't it?
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
You know, and, and so I hated that feeling, and also hated myself for letting it happen, because I've, I have got this really... It's a bizarre, uh... I don't know whether you can call it a power, but I, I have the ability to be able to say, "Stop." And I, I, I can just... And that's what I did, in the end. In the end, uh, there was an incident, um, when I was working for Belgium, uh, judo, and there was an incident. It was Christmas, it was the, I tell you exactly the day. It was 20th of December, and, uh, uh, me and a, a Belgian coach, we got, um, absolutely hammered. But we were at the wrong place, and it got noticed, and, and, uh, so I remember they, they pulled me up in front of this board, and I looked down at these guys, and half of them were people I didn't want to be in that situation with, you know. They're, they're not people that I respected, and they're not people that I trusted. So, uh, I said, um, "If you're gonna sack me, sack me, but I'd kinda... I'll promise you now that I will just, I, this, this is it, I'll stop. I'm just gonna stop. I've decided." On the way back in the car, I, uh, rang, uh, Nicky up, my wife, and I said, "The, wh- whatever you hear now, whatever, I, I'm just gonna stop." So, uh, that was it. Stopped.
- LFLex Fridman
You just saw the moment and said, "Stop"?
- NANeil Adams
Stop.
- LFLex Fridman
So that fuzzy place, what advice could you give to people about how to overcome that, that dark place, the depression, whether it has to do with drinking or not?
- NANeil Adams
I think, um... If it's to do with drinking...... all I can say is, is that the, um, two days or a week into not drinking, you'll feel different. You know, the, it'll make a physical difference. And, uh, you'll like that p- physical difference.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
And then from a mental perspective as well, because I think that, um, you know, you, it, it, you have a massive downer, you know? Um, and I, I think that that must be because of drugs as well, because I had a situation with my brother, you know, he was like, um, you know, um, he w- professional wrestling and, uh, e- the drugs was an element there. And, you know, so I'd never touched a drug or even seen one in my life but, um, you know, I'd let the alcohol side go too far and then decided never to do that. So then, I guess, I had people ringing me up, you know, saying, you know, "How, how can, uh, we stop?" You know. So wh- when they say, "Can I have a word? Can I discuss something with you?" And I know then what they want to discuss with me, you know. And, and the thing is is that I would say, you know, you, if you stop, then feel the effects of, of, of, of, of it and it will make a difference t- to your everyday life. And that, that will make a massive difference. And, um, I think about anybody who kind of g- you know, is down all the time, is to find the, the cause of what's pushing you down. You know what I mean? And, and, and try and, um, try and attack that. Uh, I mean, you, 'cause it's never... You know, somebody once said to me, they said, "Whatever you got, you know, we've, we've got something special." I mean, we, we, uh, have a great life and have had a great competition record. You know, the, it could've been better but it was great. But I, I've had, um, success th- uh, with my business and we're still out there and we have a great life. We travel all the world and, you know, the, there's people out there that would live in your house at the drop of a hat, wherever you are. They'd drive your car, w- you know, no matter what car it is. Some people haven't got a car, you know. And whatever food you're having, and you're moaning about the food, right? There, there's somebody out there that would take that and gladly eat that. All right? So there's always somebody worse off than you.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
And I think that, um, we tend to sometimes, you know, look at the things that we haven't got rather than the things we have got.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. It's a skill probably just to be grateful for the things you have, exactly as you said.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
And it's sometimes the little things like food and-
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
... cars and all that kind of stuff. Just to, to have gratitude for... And family and all this kind of stuff. But it's still, I, uh, you know, having talked to a bunch of Olympic athletes, there is a... You know, when you give so much of your life to winning and then you lose, sometimes even when you win, but when you lose at the very top, it's a tough, tough, like tough thing to go through.
- NANeil Adams
The most difficult thing, I think for anybody, is when they have to decide when to stop.
- LFLex Fridman
Yeah. Yeah.
- NANeil Adams
You know?
- 1:10:11 – 1:29:46
Teddy Riner
- LFLex Fridman
Anyway, let me first ask the ridiculous big question, who do you think is the greatest of all time? Is Teddy Riner in the running?
- NANeil Adams
He's the greatest judo winner of all time. Of that, there's no doubt, you know. I mean, he is the... Uh, and I think if you asked him, um, y- whether he was the greatest judo man in the world of all time, he would say, "No, I'm not," you know, and he's, he's not the greatest judo man.
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
There are people with, um, you know, more beautiful judo in some ways, although he's got great technique, but he, he, he is the ultimate winner.
- LFLex Fridman
10-time world champ.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah.
- LFLex Fridman
Two-time gold medalist in the Olympics. I guess two-time bronze medalist. He's probably going, is he going to Paris?
- NANeil Adams
Yeah, and, uh, you know, and-
- LFLex Fridman
He's going after it again?
- NANeil Adams
Yeah. I th-
- LFLex Fridman
So he's right here. I mean, literally he's-
- NANeil Adams
He's right there, you know, th- this was just a couple of months ago, and then last week, this, uh, uh, last week, he, he was out again and he, he won again.
- LFLex Fridman
You think he gets gold medal this time?
- NANeil Adams
There's people getting closer to him, right?
- LFLex Fridman
Right.
- NANeil Adams
'Cause he, he's obviously, you know, his age-wise and the amount of time that he's been there, he's obviously somebody that is s- starting not quite at his best as he was when he was younger but he, like I say, he still puts it on the line, he lays it on the line every single time and then not only does he lay it on the line but he beats them all, you know. And, uh, last week, he just beat, uh, Saito, who's a young up-and-coming Japanese fighter-
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
... and, uh, he beat him in the final. It was close and he did well. There are certain people, the smaller ones actually, not the taller ones, 'cause like, you know, we were saying about the big arm over the top that he likes-
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
... and the dominant grip that he likes, there are people that can give him a hard time. Now, if at the Olympic games, he has two or three of those on the trot-
- LFLex Fridman
Mm-hmm.
- NANeil Adams
... it might work against him, you know, and, uh, it's by no means an absolute certainty that he's gonna win the Olympic gold medal. But he's gotta be one of the favorites. Top favorite. You know, no matter what happens now, Teddy Riner is, is the greatest winner that, you know, and, uh, if you asked the great Yamashita, he would say the same. You know, it's, there's nobody that's... You know, and Yamashita was unbeaten in international competition and I, I trained with Yamashita a lot, uh, over a two-year period.... and got to know him quite well. And he was one of the greatest of all times. You know, for me, was one of the greatest judo men. And, um, I'm talking about from a technical point of view, from a spectacular judo point of view. Uh, understanding the, uh, fundamental principles of, of how techniques work. Uh, sometimes having, you know, different techniques that work for you, you know. So if one doesn't work, and, and one particular direction doesn't work, you can change the direction completely.
- LFLex Fridman
In case people don't know, Yamashita is this legendary judoka, heavyweight. Teddy Riner, heavyweight, that's plus 100 kg. So he-
- NANeil Adams
He would have caused him all sorts of problems.
- LFLex Fridman
Oh yeah, that would have ... That's a cool ... Who do you think wins? Yamashita or Teddy Riner?
- NANeil Adams
Yes, I think Yamashita.
- LFLex Fridman
No, I'm just kidding (laughs) .
- NANeil Adams
But, you know-
- LFLex Fridman
Y- w- w- wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
- NANeil Adams
Yeah?
Episode duration: 2:27:50
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