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Sertac Karaman: Robots That Fly and Robots That Drive | Lex Fridman Podcast #97

Sertac Karaman is a professor at MIT, co-founder of the autonomous vehicle company Optimus Ride, and is one of top roboticists in the world, including robots that drive and robots that fly. Support this podcast by signing up with these sponsors: - Cash App - use code "LexPodcast" and download: - Cash App (App Store): https://apple.co/2sPrUHe - Cash App (Google Play): https://bit.ly/2MlvP5w EPISODE LINKS: Sertac's Website: http://sertac.scripts.mit.edu/web/ Sertac's Twitter: https://twitter.com/sertackaraman Optimus Ride: https://www.optimusride.com/ PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 1:44 - Autonomous flying vs autonomous driving 6:37 - Flying cars 10:27 - Role of simulation in robotics 17:35 - Game theory and robotics 24:30 - Autonomous vehicle company strategies 29:46 - Optimus Ride 47:08 - Waymo, Tesla, Optimus Ride timelines 53:22 - Achieving the impossible 53:50 - Iterative learning 58:39 - Is Lidar is a crutch? 1:03:21 - Fast autonomous flight 1:18:06 - Most beautiful idea in robotics CONNECT: - Subscribe to this YouTube channel - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LexFridmanPage - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

Lex FridmanhostSertac Karamanguest
May 20, 20201h 22mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Sertac Karaman maps our robotic future: cars, drones, society, tradeoffs

  1. Lex Fridman and MIT professor/Optimus Ride co‑founder Sertac Karaman discuss the technical and societal challenges of deploying robots that both drive and fly. They contrast autonomous cars versus drones at scale, exploring perception, simulation, human behavior modeling, and the role of machine learning. Karaman explains Optimus Ride’s geo‑fenced, human‑in‑the‑loop autonomy strategy and contrasts it with Tesla’s and Waymo’s approaches, including safety, business models, and data. The conversation closes on high‑speed autonomous drone racing, hardware–software co‑design, and Bellman’s equation as a foundational yet computationally daunting idea in decision‑making.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Scaling autonomy in human environments is harder than isolated robotics.

Industrial robots and Mars rovers work in structured or remote settings; putting thousands of autonomous cars or drones into everyday human spaces adds layers of algorithmic, legal, business, and social complexity that we haven’t solved at large scale.

Autonomous cars will likely reach dense deployment before autonomous air transport.

Ground vehicles can leverage and modestly adapt existing infrastructure and safety paradigms, whereas filling the ‘agile airspace’ with passenger drones involves harder safety, airspace management, and technology certification problems.

Simulation’s biggest frontier is realistic humans, not just physics and sensors.

We can now simulate dynamics and cameras increasingly well, but convincingly simulating human appearance and behavior—and using that to train and test autonomy—remains a core unsolved bottleneck.

Human behavior prediction and game‑theoretic interaction are central to safe autonomy.

Knowing where others are is no longer enough; vehicles must predict what humans will do and understand social cues (aggression, deference, signaling) while also handling being ‘abused’ as non‑human agents in human spaces.

Human‑in‑the‑loop fleets can bridge the gap to full autonomy.

Optimus Ride pushes a model where a small control center staff supervises many vehicles, intervening for efficiency rather than safety; this enables higher speeds and better service now, without waiting for perfect end‑to‑end autonomy.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

The real challenge of our time is to take these vehicles and put them into places where humans are present.

Sertac Karaman

We may almost see a whole mushrooming of this technology in all kinds of places that we didn’t expect before, and that may be the real surprise.

Sertac Karaman

You either put money for the lidar or you pay money for the compute. If you don’t put the lidar, it’s a more expensive system because we have to put in a lot of compute.

Sertac Karaman

I’d love to build autonomous vehicles like drones that can go far faster than any human possibly can.

Sertac Karaman

There are some things that are so far ahead people think they’re close, and there are things that are actually close people think are far ahead.

Sertac Karaman

Comparison of autonomous flying versus autonomous driving and their scalability challengesRobots operating safely in dense, human‑centric environments and at large scaleSimulation, perception, and modeling human behavior for autonomous systemsBusiness, safety, and deployment strategies: Optimus Ride vs. Waymo vs. TeslaHuman‑in‑the‑loop autonomy and networked fleets (10 people operating 50 vehicles)Geo‑fenced mobility services, shuttles, and urban/architectural impactsHigh‑speed autonomous drones, hardware limits, and Bellman’s equation in decision‑making

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