Simone Giertz: Queen of Sh*tty Robots, Innovative Engineering, and Design | Lex Fridman Podcast #372

1. 0:00 – 2:06

   Introduction

   1. SGSimone Giertz0:00

      It's a machine. It was my friend, Daniel Beauchamp, and I, we had this long-running joke about a proud parent machine that you could give a quarter and it pats you on the shoulder and says, "Proud of you."

   2. LFLex Fridman0:10

      Yeah.

   3. SGSimone Giertz0:11

      Um, so yeah. I still have that hanging on my wall in my workshop, so that one I'm- I'm- I'm really happy with. I just think it's a really funny concept, and also, I executed the build well.

   4. LFLex Fridman0:22

      So it's an arm?

   5. SGSimone Giertz0:23

      Mm-hmm.

   6. LFLex Fridman0:24

      Like, what's the build?

   7. SGSimone Giertz0:25

      Yeah, I built it off of an old lamp arm. Yeah, basically it's just a motorized arm and this kind of torso of a person.

   8. LFLex Fridman0:33

      Mm-hmm. Was it... So, it's actually a hand, right?

   9. SGSimone Giertz0:35

      It's just laser cut plywood, and it kind of has, like... I think it looks creepy.

   10. LFLex Fridman0:39

       Yeah.

   11. SGSimone Giertz0:40

       And yeah, it says, "Proud of you, son," because I just thought that sounded more funny than, "Proud of you, daughter." And also, "Proud of you, son," just it immediately communicates that it's a parent. It's not just, like, a colleague or something. It's like, "Proud of you."

   12. LFLex Fridman0:54

       (laughs) Yeah.

   13. SGSimone Giertz0:56

       And it charges you a quarter for it.

   14. LFLex Fridman0:58

       Yeah. But you add a, like, ChatGPT on top of that, and, uh, fine-tune it on conversations you've had with your parents, and all of a sudden, you have a thing that can fundamentally transform your psyche.

   15. SGSimone Giertz1:09

       Yeah.

   16. LFLex Fridman1:11

       The following is a conversation with Simone Giertz, an inventor, designer, engineer, and roboticist famous for a combination of humor and brilliant creative design in the systems and products she creates, including as part of her new product design company called Yetz. She has a popular YouTube channel where she has demonstrated a lot of her incredible and fun designs and inventions from, quote, "shitty robots" to a Tesla Model 3 converted into a truck, but where she also revealed her personal journey after having been diagnosed with a brain tumor. Simone is a brilliant, fun, and inspiring human being. It was truly an honor for me to get to meet her and to have this chat. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Simone Giertz.

2. 2:06 – 18:58

   Early creations

   1. LFLex Fridman2:06

      What was the first cool thing you built where you fell in love with the process of making stuff?

   2. SGSimone Giertz2:10

      You know, I think in the beginning of building stuff, you- you run into the limitations of your skills so much, so I feel like, honestly, building gets less and less frustrating, or, like, I love it more and more the more I know.

   3. LFLex Fridman2:23

      So, the limitations aren't fun? Like, when is it frustrating?

   4. SGSimone Giertz2:26

      The limitations are fun, but it's, like, when you have an idea of something and you wanna make it a certain level, and then you just-

   5. LFLex Fridman2:33

      Yeah.

   6. SGSimone Giertz2:33

      ... have to compromise with the materials and the tools and the skills you have. Um, so I can't remember first time where I felt like-

   7. LFLex Fridman2:41

      I'm proud of this.

   8. SGSimone Giertz2:42

      ... "Wow, this was so smooth. I'm so proud of it." Like, I feel like a lot of people, I watch them build stuff, and it's just like watching water pour down, you know? It's just, like, so easy. And for me, it's just like trying to shove a toy car into a wall.

   9. LFLex Fridman3:00

      So, you're not able to step back and marvel, like, at the early creations, even like- even like, um... We're not even talking Arduino stuff. Even before then.

   10. SGSimone Giertz3:09

       I'm from Sweden, and you have to choose either sewing or woodworking, and I chose sew- like, woodworking in middle school. And I remember the sense of pride when I got to bring something home, and that thing of like, "Oh, my God. I get to show my parents this." And I think that is kind of the feeling that I've built my job around. It's like the sense of pride and wanting to show people something that I made. And, like, back then, it was, like, a little wooden spoon, you know?

   11. LFLex Fridman3:37

       (laughs)

   12. SGSimone Giertz3:38

       And now, it's a slightly larger wooden spoon.

   13. LFLex Fridman3:40

       Wooden spoon-

   14. SGSimone Giertz3:41

       Yeah. (laughs)

   15. LFLex Fridman3:42

       ... that is dynamic and moves and has a- a mind of its own. Um, you first started doing more engineering type stuff with, uh, Arduino boards at Punch Through Design, which is an-

   16. SGSimone Giertz3:53

       Mm-hmm.

   17. LFLex Fridman3:53

       ... SF engineering firm. What are, just from your memory there, what are some cool things you built there?

   18. SGSimone Giertz3:58

       So, the thing is, I- I went to advertising school, and I... Just, like, a v- vocational studies, a year. And I realized there that I didn't care much for advertising, but I thought it was really fun to build stuff in program. So like, I just completely focused on that, and there, I built my first hardware project, or like electronics project, which was this, uh, iPhone case with retractable guitar strings.

   19. LFLex Fridman4:23

       Yeah.

   20. SGSimone Giertz4:23

       So basically, I imagined that you could, like, pull out guitar strings from the bottom of your iPhone, and you could pluck it to your belt, and then you could hold the chord on the screen.

   21. LFLex Fridman4:33

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SGSimone Giertz4:34

       And I built that together with my friend, Jonathan, and I was like, "Oh, this is dope." I thought it was so much fun. And I considered, like, "Oh, should I go to school for this?" But then I thought, "Hmm, maybe I can get a job, and I can get paid to learn about electronics." So, just based off of that one project, I got the job at Punch Through Design where it's actually was a- a one-year internship.

   23. LFLex Fridman4:59

       Can you explain what we're talking about here? So, it's a case-

   24. SGSimone Giertz5:01

       Mm-hmm.

   25. LFLex Fridman5:02

       ... with guitar strings attached to it.

   26. SGSimone Giertz5:04

       Yeah.

   27. LFLex Fridman5:04

       Does it actually work at all?

   28. SGSimone Giertz5:07

       It does.

   29. LFLex Fridman5:08

       These are not on the screen guitar strings.

   30. SGSimone Giertz5:10

       No.
3. 18:58 – 33:56

   Sh*tty Robots

   1. SGSimone Giertz18:58

      /r/shittyrobots on Reddit and people started calling me the queen of /r/shittyrobots and then the /r kind of dropped. So I, what I'm trying to say is I did not come up with that one myself. (laughs) Um, but I did happily adopt it. So I definitely came from a place of like building things that didn't work and kind of... yeah, everything going wrong every time, like happily failing, and I think that was amazing. It was a really powerful tool for me to, like, not get my perfectionism in the way because if I set out to do something that's great, then I'm never gonna start.

   2. LFLex Fridman19:34

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SGSimone Giertz19:34

      And I was like, "No, I just need something that looks funny." Um, but what I've realized now is there's also a defense mechanism, being self-deprecating is like always beating people to the punch. It kind of was this survival tactic on the internet of being like never daring to set out as an expert, and I still do that. Like, I'm terrified to tell people how to do something even if I know, um, because it kind of opens you up for being shot down. So I think I have, I definitely have a conflicted relationship with it, and now especially as I'm- I'm getting older, I am more skilled than I was before. I mean, I'm a CEO of three businesses and I'm like, "I don't need to, like, keep on talking myself down all the time." So yeah, I think it's definitely something that has served me really, really well and that is still, like, a thing that I have in my work life and in my r- relationships, but I'm also trying to only do it when it's beneficial to me and not when it's harmful.

   4. LFLex Fridman20:40

      Yeah, I mean, but when you're as successful as you are, I feel like people like it when you're self-deprecating and you don't take yourself seriously, you have that humility.

   5. SGSimone Giertz20:48

      Yeah.

   6. LFLex Fridman20:48

      Uh, I think it's probably the hardest when you're starting out.

   7. SGSimone Giertz20:51

      Yeah.

   8. LFLex Fridman20:51

      'Cause...

   9. SGSimone Giertz20:52

      I don't know.

   10. LFLex Fridman20:53

       You know?

   11. SGSimone Giertz20:53

       I think it was easier then almost, I don't know.

   12. LFLex Fridman20:55

       But nobody takes you seriously, right? When you're starting out, when you're young. Like...

   13. SGSimone Giertz21:00

       You know, I just realized that I played a lot more stupid than I was, and...

   14. LFLex Fridman21:07

       Yeah.

   15. SGSimone Giertz21:07

       I think it's also... oh, gosh, I can't believe I'm the one bringing this up. Uh, but like being a woman in a male-dominated field and you're, like, try, I was just trying to make myself the least amount threatening, or like really unthreatening because m- people are threatened by you in different ways and it's like you have such a thin line that you can walk where you're like, "Okay, I need to be just attractive enough for people to not be offended by my appearance, but just unattractive enough for people to not sexualize me. I have to be just smart and witty enough for people to be like, 'Oh my God, that's really cool,' but also shoot myself down enough for other people not to be able to do it or be like, 'Oh yeah, watch this woman try to thinking that she knows how to build electronics.'" You know? So it's like...

   16. LFLex Fridman21:57

       Well, that's a interesting skill to build, especially when you put yourself out there on the internet.

   17. SGSimone Giertz22:01

       Yeah.

   18. LFLex Fridman22:01

       Like y- unfortunately, that's the reality of the internet and it's a skill you have to kinda develop. And it's actually why a lot of really brilliant people avoid the internet.

   19. SGSimone Giertz22:10

       Yeah.

   20. LFLex Fridman22:11

       Like, there's not many peop- like at MIT, for example, there's not many brilliant professors or PhD students and so on just putting their stuff out there because, like... (laughs) um, if they wa- like if they really put their heart and soul into a thing, first of all, that's really hard.

   21. SGSimone Giertz22:29

       Mm-hmm.

   22. LFLex Fridman22:29

       And nobody, uh, nobody sees it and e- everyone's like, "Eh, this is boring." So there's so many failure modes, like, "This is boring," or like, like you said, you're coming off as too much of an expert, you're not self-deprecating enough.

   23. SGSimone Giertz22:42

       Mm-hmm.

   24. LFLex Fridman22:42

       Or, like, there's just so many failure modes and it's terrifying for people, but I feel like that's a skill you should learn because most people, like at MIT, at university and so on, are doing a lot of awesome stuff.

   25. SGSimone Giertz22:54

       Yeah.

   26. LFLex Fridman22:55

       And they should show it off. But I feel like you figured out a really good process of, of showing it off. You, when you fail, when you succeed, all of it, not taking yourself too seriously, but also revealing through the humor and the self-deprecation a kind of genius, a kind of intelligence and curiosity.

   27. SGSimone Giertz23:16

       Can, um, just wanna snapshot that quote and put it on my LinkedIn profile.

   28. LFLex Fridman23:19

       On the back of your book.

   29. SGSimone Giertz23:20

       In the back of my book.

   30. LFLex Fridman23:20

       When is your autobiography coming out?
4. 33:56 – 36:11

   Robots and human connection

   1. SGSimone Giertz33:56

      in it.

   2. LFLex Fridman33:56

      Is there something to be said on a philosophical level about the value of a flawed robot? So like, the kind of robots you want is to be partially flawed. Like, do you think the kind of robots we'll have in the home-

   3. SGSimone Giertz34:10

      Mm-hmm.

   4. LFLex Fridman34:10

      ... that are friends and, um, you know, almost like pets, wouldn't they need to be kinda shitty? Because we can love the... Somehow we humans love the shitty.

   5. SGSimone Giertz34:23

      I mean, it is kind of endearing and... 'cause I think it, it kind of... I'm gonna mess up this world- word. It anthropomorphizes them.

   6. LFLex Fridman34:30

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SGSimone Giertz34:31

      I think it's... I mean, I never feel as deeply connected to my Roomba as when it's like, "I'm on a cliff." (laughs)

   8. LFLex Fridman34:38

      Yeah.

   9. SGSimone Giertz34:38

      I'm like, "Babe-"

   10. LFLex Fridman34:39

       Have you had Roombas talk?

   11. SGSimone Giertz34:40

       "... let's go climb the ledge." No.

   12. LFLex Fridman34:42

       'Cause I really... Yeah, I've done that a lot.

   13. SGSimone Giertz34:44

       Yeah?

   14. LFLex Fridman34:44

       When they talk to you. Yeah. And it... I- and you immediately anthropomorphize them.

   15. SGSimone Giertz34:50

       Yeah.

   16. LFLex Fridman34:50

       And then you have... If they have a name, which is why most roboticists don't give names or gender to robots, 'cause you just, you- you become connected to them. I'm of the opposite mind. You should have like an im... Intimate relationship sounds weird.

   17. SGSimone Giertz35:05

       (laughs)

   18. LFLex Fridman35:05

       But you should have a close connection to robots. I mean, there- there's power in that. There's a social element to robotics. Even a arm. I don't know. There's something about us humans that gains so much value from our interaction with dynamic objects. And we should, like, lean into that as opposed to run away from it. Like, that was always a confusing thing to me about robotics, is that most roboticists run away from that.

   19. SGSimone Giertz35:31

       Yeah.

   20. LFLex Fridman35:32

       Weird. 'Cause it's obviously gonna be... Robots are obviously going to be everywhere.

   21. SGSimone Giertz35:37

       Yeah.

   22. LFLex Fridman35:38

       Obviously.

   23. SGSimone Giertz35:39

       But it's also humans are sensitive and squishy, and there's so much liability.

   24. LFLex Fridman35:43

       Oh. Okay.

   25. SGSimone Giertz35:45

       Yeah.

   26. LFLex Fridman35:45

       Yeah, but the... Humans are s- uh, sensitive and squishy when they interact with each other and they hurt each other all the time.

   27. SGSimone Giertz35:51

       Mm-hmm.

   28. LFLex Fridman35:52

       Like, sometimes they get together and they're like, "Oh, you're the best." And you know, "You're the best," and then they leave each other, and then they break each other's heart.

   29. SGSimone Giertz35:59

       Sorry about your breakup, Lex. (laughs) I didn't know you were-

   30. LFLex Fridman36:02

       Yeah. Just trying to get over this.
5. 36:11 – 39:30

   Dating AI

   1. LFLex Fridman36:11

      from a safety protocol perspective, people think about, like, physical damage, not emotional damage. I know this sounds ridiculous. I know this sounds ridiculous, but it won't be. It's already happening. There's an app called Replika where people have an intimate relationship with an A- AI chatbot and they hurt themselves.

   2. SGSimone Giertz36:27

      I was thinking about this.

   3. LFLex Fridman36:29

      Yeah.

   4. SGSimone Giertz36:29

      Okay. In dating...

   5. LFLex Fridman36:32

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SGSimone Giertz36:32

      What if you... 'Cause you can train...... like, a chatbot to kind of mimic the way that you talk to people and interact with people.

   7. LFLex Fridman36:40

      Go on.

   8. SGSimone Giertz36:41

      Yeah. But then I'm like, "Okay, but what if we could all make AI versions of ourselves and have them date-

   9. LFLex Fridman36:47

      Yeah.

   10. SGSimone Giertz36:48

       ... like, thousands of thousands of other AI people, and have that as a way to turn out potenti- potential candidates?" Like, I feel like that's gonna be... What's the, what's the... Yeah.

   11. LFLex Fridman37:01

       What's the wha- what? (laughs)

   12. SGSimone Giertz37:02

       No, but what's the point of, like, meeting 20 people if you're like, "Oh, but if we j- just had our AI versions of ourselves interact," they'd be like, "Oh, your, your method of conflict is not gonna match," or...

   13. LFLex Fridman37:15

       What if the AI version of you, like, sleeps around with all the other AIs and it becomes famous for that, and it starts its own OnlyFans, and then it become... And you're like, "What did you do?"

   14. SGSimone Giertz37:26

       Yeah.

   15. LFLex Fridman37:26

       You come back home, you realize, like, "I don't, I didn't want any of this."

   16. SGSimone Giertz37:28

       I've created a monster?

   17. LFLex Fridman37:29

       You created a monster, and then-

   18. SGSimone Giertz37:30

       I mean, do I get a cut?

   19. LFLex Fridman37:32

       Exactly. That's the question I would be asking.

   20. SGSimone Giertz37:34

       (laughs) But I think it's definitely, like, yeah, the, the human technology interaction is really interesting, because I feel like I don't love any of the machines that I have in my life.

   21. LFLex Fridman37:45

       Oh, really? You haven't, you haven't...

   22. SGSimone Giertz37:47

       I mean, I don't love my phone. I touch it all the time, and it's there, and it's, like, constantly... It's a constant presence, but there's nothing in me that feels like, "Oh, I love this object."

   23. LFLex Fridman37:57

       Just-

   24. SGSimone Giertz37:57

       Like, I kind of despise it.

   25. LFLex Fridman38:00

       Well, that, that might be the way you show love. I don't know.

   26. SGSimone Giertz38:02

       Yeah. (laughs)

   27. LFLex Fridman38:02

       That's deeper. That's another psychoanalysis thing. Uh, so you don't... There's not robots whom you've taken apart that you miss?

   28. SGSimone Giertz38:11

       No, they're all terrible. I mean, I, I have objects that I built that I love.

   29. LFLex Fridman38:16

       Mm-hmm.

   30. SGSimone Giertz38:16

       Um, none of the robots, I think. But that's also because it was a different, that was a different era where I wasn't really putting a lot of care into the projects I built.
6. 39:30 – 41:21

   Proud parent machine

   1. LFLex Fridman39:30

      I, I guarantee you there's people listening to this that are a little bit heartbroken saying that you've never fallen in love with your Shitty Robot.

   2. SGSimone Giertz39:36

      (laughs) Right.

   3. LFLex Fridman39:37

      They're like, "But I had a relationship..."

   4. SGSimone Giertz39:39

      (laughs)

   5. LFLex Fridman39:39

      "Like, I have an emotional connection to that robot." Like, the one with the, with the parent pats you on the back?

   6. SGSimone Giertz39:44

      Oh, that one. That one I do like. I like that one a lot. Um, that's probably my favorite, like, Shitty Robot.

   7. LFLex Fridman39:50

      Can you explain it?

   8. SGSimone Giertz39:51

      So, it's a machine. It was my friend Daniel Beauchamp and I, we had this long-running joke about a proud parent machine that you could give a quarter and it pats you on the shoulder and says, "Proud of you."

   9. LFLex Fridman40:02

      Yeah.

   10. SGSimone Giertz40:03

       Um, so yeah, I still have that hanging on my wall in my workshop. So, that one, I'm, I'm, I'm really happy with. I just think it's a really funny concept. And also, I executed the build well, so that was...

   11. LFLex Fridman40:18

       So, it's an arm?

   12. SGSimone Giertz40:19

       Mm-hmm.

   13. LFLex Fridman40:20

       Like, what's the build?

   14. SGSimone Giertz40:21

       Yeah, I built it off of an old lamp arm. Yeah, basically, it's just a motorized arm and this kind of torso of, of a person.

   15. LFLex Fridman40:30

       Mm-hmm. Well, so it's actually a hand, right?

   16. SGSimone Giertz40:33

       It's not a-

   17. LFLex Fridman40:34

       Did I wrap it correctly? It's a hand on top of-

   18. SGSimone Giertz40:35

       ... it's like a laser cut. It's just laser-cut plywood, and it kind of has, like... It looks creepy.

   19. LFLex Fridman40:40

       Yeah.

   20. SGSimone Giertz40:40

       Which I like.

   21. LFLex Fridman40:41

       Yeah, the creepy helps-

   22. SGSimone Giertz40:42

       Yeah.

   23. LFLex Fridman40:42

       ... with the...

   24. SGSimone Giertz40:43

       Yeah. And yeah, it says, "Proud of you, son," because I just thought that sounded more funny than, "Proud of you, daughter," and also, "Proud of you, son" just... It immediately communicates that it's a parent. It's not just, like, a colleague or something. It's like, "Proud of you."

   25. LFLex Fridman40:59

       (laughs) Yeah.

   26. SGSimone Giertz41:00

       And it charges you a quarter for it.

   27. LFLex Fridman41:02

       Yeah, but add a, like, ChatGPT on top of that and, uh, fine-tune it on conversations you've had with your parents, and all of a sudden, you have a thing that can fundamentally transform your psyche.

   28. SGSimone Giertz41:13

       Yeah.

   29. LFLex Fridman41:14

       That's all it takes. That's a beautiful creation. How'd you come up with that creation?

   30. SGSimone Giertz41:18

       Oh, it was my friend Daniel and I who had a long-running joke about

7. 41:21 – 42:47

   Creative process

   1. SGSimone Giertz41:21

      it.

   2. LFLex Fridman41:21

      High level, can you speak to your creative process?

   3. SGSimone Giertz41:24

      I think a lot of it... I mean, it's changed-

   4. LFLex Fridman41:26

      For the Shitty Robots, let's actually separate.

   5. SGSimone Giertz41:27

      For the Shitty Robot, yeah. I mean, it, it has a lot of overlap. Um, so it's identifying everyday problems, and in the Shitty Robot era, I would kind of take an everyday problem, like, "Oh, I have a hard time getting up in the morning," and I would solve it in the most ridiculous, spectacular way I could think of. So, for waking up in the morning, it was having an alarm clock that slaps me in the face with a rubber hand.

   6. LFLex Fridman41:50

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SGSimone Giertz41:52

      And what I'm doing now is still identifying everyday problems, but I'm actually trying to, like, product design my way out of it.

   8. LFLex Fridman42:00

      What, in your experience, was the funniest thing? Is it violence, like the hand slapping you? Food eating? Is there... It's, or is it just, uh, case dependent?

   9. SGSimone Giertz42:08

      I think the funniest is... No, I think it's more like the proud parent machine. It's not violent. It doesn't-

   10. LFLex Fridman42:15

       Yeah, emotional.

   11. SGSimone Giertz42:15

       There's no, nothing. It's just emotional, and it's kind of-

   12. LFLex Fridman42:18

       Yeah.

   13. SGSimone Giertz42:19

       ... mm, a commentary on this fraught relationship that we sometimes have with our parents and their pride of us.

   14. LFLex Fridman42:27

       Sometimes? Every time.

   15. SGSimone Giertz42:29

       Sometimes. My dad visited, like, last week, and he was like, "I just wanna say I'm so proud of you and for the built, life you've built for yourself." And that was really sweet.

   16. LFLex Fridman42:38

       Yeah, three times.

   17. SGSimone Giertz42:39

       I'll put that on the back of my autobiography too.

   18. LFLex Fridman42:41

       Yeah. It's not your fault, Simone.

   19. SGSimone Giertz42:43

       (laughs)

   20. LFLex Fridman42:44

       It's not your fault.

   21. SGSimone Giertz42:45

       Some stuff is my fault.

8. 42:47 – 48:09

   Bubble wrap music box

   1. SGSimone Giertz42:47

      (laughs)

   2. LFLex Fridman42:47

      What was the longest one to complete for the Shitty Robots, that you remember? 'Cause you spent, on a few of them, you spent quite a long time.

   3. SGSimone Giertz42:55

      Mm-hmm. Mm...

   4. LFLex Fridman43:00

      Which is also inspiring when you take so long on a project.

   5. SGSimone Giertz43:03

      Yeah. I think, um, kind of in the more, like, fun, whimsical department, rather than Shitty Robots, I built, recently, um, this music box, so like a small music box that kind of has a barrel-

   6. LFLex Fridman43:15

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SGSimone Giertz43:16

      ... with little spikes and it plays a song. But I did a large version of that, that pops a sheet of bubble wrap and then, like, plays tones into a pan flute. So we ac- you can actually program it to play different songs. That one kicked my butt in so many creative ways, and it was such a pain. I think that is probably the, like, weird, funny project that's taken me the longest and, like, the biggest engineering effort.

   8. LFLex Fridman43:41

      Where's the a- sound coming from?

   9. SGSimone Giertz43:43

      So if you... It all came from me realizing that if you pop bubble wrap and you pop it right in front of the opening of a pan flute, or, like, one of the pipes, you can have it play different tones. So that's what it does. So I built this-

   10. LFLex Fridman43:57

       (laughs)

   11. SGSimone Giertz43:57

       ... (laughs) music instrument off of that.

   12. LFLex Fridman44:00

       Okay. I- ooh- if it's okay, can you describe some- some, like, how it works, some of the- the- the technical details here?

   13. SGSimone Giertz44:06

       Yeah, so-

   14. LFLex Fridman44:07

       It's fascinating.

   15. SGSimone Giertz44:07

       ... basically, I mean, one of the big issues that I had, so I worked with, um... As of a year and a half back, I hired an engineer, Stu, so we were collaborating on it. Um, but a big issue that we had was feeding in the bubble wrap sheet and, like-

   16. LFLex Fridman44:24

       Uh-huh.

   17. SGSimone Giertz44:24

       ... making sure that it feeds in straight and doesn't get skewed, because you need to make, like, the popping feet, which is where you program this barrel to pop different bubbles-

   18. LFLex Fridman44:34

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SGSimone Giertz44:34

       ... need to be so perfectly aligned on the bubble of the bubble wrap for it pop in the right location.

   20. LFLex Fridman44:41

       So there's a feeder for the bubble wrap, that's a challenge-

   21. SGSimone Giertz44:43

       Mm-hmm.

   22. LFLex Fridman44:43

       ... and then you have to have a barrel with a f- a little baby feet on it-

   23. SGSimone Giertz44:47

       Yeah.

   24. LFLex Fridman44:47

       ... that pops the bubble wrap?

   25. SGSimone Giertz44:48

       So that m-

   26. LFLex Fridman44:48

       Why is this so exciting?

   27. SGSimone Giertz44:49

       ... making that barrel (laughs) was a pain-

   28. LFLex Fridman44:52

       Yeah.

   29. SGSimone Giertz44:53

       ... as well. I had to get a, like this rotary set-up for my CNC and, yeah, it was- it was a lot of work. Um, but that was really fun. And it's just like, th- this is probably my f- favorite privilege of my job is that I can go down any rabbit hole I think find interesting.

   30. LFLex Fridman45:14

       Did you have a lot of joy from popping the-
9. 48:09 – 53:43

   Education

   1. LFLex Fridman48:09

      uh, you went to college for physics for one year.

   2. SGSimone Giertz48:12

      Mm-hmm.

   3. LFLex Fridman48:12

      And you dropped out.

   4. SGSimone Giertz48:13

      Mm-hmm.

   5. LFLex Fridman48:13

      What did you learn from that? Who do you think should and shouldn't go to college?

   6. SGSimone Giertz48:17

      Hmm. I think, first of all, you shouldn't listen to me. Um...

   7. LFLex Fridman48:22

      That should be the name of your autobiography.

   8. SGSimone Giertz48:24

      First of all, you shouldn't listen to me. (laughs) I, you know, I realized that I was there for the wrong reasons. I had this deep, I got completely, like, starting to get grades in school, which in Sweden at that time, we started getting it at eighth grade, so when I was 14. It just kind of hijacked my brain because I realized that I could put a number on how smart I was. And I got obsessed with it. And I...Wanted to study mechanical engineering because I was like, "I like machines." But then physics was kind of the hardest thing you could do, and I had this like deep need to prove to myself that I was smart. So, I started studying physics, realized (laughs) I wasn't that smart. (laughs) I realized, or I mean, just mostly that I like, I love math, but I don't love math 10 hours a day.

   9. LFLex Fridman49:19

      Yeah.

   10. SGSimone Giertz49:19

       And also, I think I am a generalist through and through. Like, I'm decent at a fair amount of things, but definitely not a specialist in any ways. And this, it was such a specialist type of area, um, that I felt like the other parts of my brain kind of just dwindled and died. So, I think, I think most of all, if people are thinking about going to college, and especially if you're here in the States and it's so fucking expensive, really... Okay, there's two, there's two things I wanna do. One is like actually go to a workplace where people are doing the job-

   11. LFLex Fridman49:59

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SGSimone Giertz49:59

       ... that you think you wanna do. If you wanna become a doctor, (laughs) like be at a hospital and like try to see how doctors work and if you actually like it. Because I feel like people have a lot of ideas of what it's gonna be like, and it just doesn't match with reality. And then I think when people figure out what they wanna do, there's kind of, that's two separate questions, or there's two questions that you could split out of that. One is like, what do you actually wanna do? That for me, for the last 10 years is building stuff. But then there's a second part to that question, which is, what context do you wanna do that?

   13. LFLex Fridman50:32

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SGSimone Giertz50:32

       Do you wanna build stuff at a startup or at a big corporation? Do you wanna build stuff for an art gallery or for the movies or for YouTube? And I think that's often, like people only learn how to answer the first question, but then it's like the context means as much. Because I was building th- stuff at Punch Through Design, and I wasn't getting that like deep fulfillment. Like, I felt like I wasn't fully using myself and like hitting all of my gears, because I just wasn't that motivated about building stuff for other people. And I changed the context and everything changed.

   15. LFLex Fridman51:09

       And so sometimes you do need to consider resume and stuff like that for-

   16. SGSimone Giertz51:13

       Mm-hmm.

   17. LFLex Fridman51:13

       ... depending on the... But some, I think people consider that way too much, especially modern times. I feel like you don't need to go to college just for the resume. I feel like the biggest benefit of college, I mean, there's a bunch, but one is just to do hard things.

   18. SGSimone Giertz51:30

       Mm-hmm.

   19. LFLex Fridman51:31

       But you could do hard things anywhere. But, um, some people need to be, I was probably one of those people, to be forced to do hard things.

   20. SGSimone Giertz51:39

       Yeah.

   21. LFLex Fridman51:40

       And, um, the other is to meet fascinating humans from all walks of life that are pursu- they have all kinds of different passions and allows you to learn. Depending on the major, you can bec-, you can learn generally, and you can search if you're doing it efficiently about what actually inspires you. Um, and then the other thing is the, the resume thing.

   22. SGSimone Giertz52:02

       Yeah.

   23. LFLex Fridman52:03

       But ultimately, you don't need college to find your passion, to run with it.

   24. SGSimone Giertz52:08

       I mean, I have so much college FOMO though.

   25. LFLex Fridman52:11

       Yeah.

   26. SGSimone Giertz52:11

       Like, I think it's, I chose a different set of experiences and when I applied to MIT I was, I think I was 24, 'cause I was like, "Oh, maybe I should become an electrical engineer."

   27. LFLex Fridman52:25

       Yeah.

   28. SGSimone Giertz52:25

       Because I really liked electronics. Um, but then I remember seeing that the average age was 18 and I was like, "Oh fuck, no. I can't hang out or like be in a room filled with 18-year-olds who are smarter than me."

   29. LFLex Fridman52:38

       Yeah. And I-

   30. SGSimone Giertz52:39

       So, I think I definitely like missed the train on having that experience. But at the same time I did so many other things and I chose other experiences and I wouldn't trade them. But I still like, I mean, I'll go to, on a campus and I'll be like, "Oh."
10. 53:43 – 55:13

    Difficult projects

    1. SGSimone Giertz53:43

       (laughs)

    2. LFLex Fridman53:43

       What about, what was the most fun robot to make or, um, musical, artistic creation? Where the process was the most fun.

    3. SGSimone Giertz53:53

       Ah, they're all painful in different ways.

    4. LFLex Fridman53:55

       So, pain.

    5. SGSimone Giertz53:56

       Yeah, pain.

    6. LFLex Fridman53:56

       Do you find pain fun?

    7. SGSimone Giertz53:58

       No, but it's, uh, definitely the pride of make, getting to pull something off or like managing to pull something off even when it was really difficult is, is very satisfying.

    8. LFLex Fridman54:10

       What was the difficult thing that you pulled off, that you were like, "Yeah-"

    9. SGSimone Giertz54:13

       Mm.

    10. LFLex Fridman54:14

        "... this is cool"?

    11. SGSimone Giertz54:15

        I like working on jigsaw puzzles, but I don't like how much table space they take up, 'cause I like just have one big table where I can do it, and that's also my dining table. So, I made this mechanical table where you can switch between two tabletops.

    12. LFLex Fridman54:29

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SGSimone Giertz54:29

        And that was an incredibly painful project, and I'm really happy with the outcome and like so proud that I managed to pull it off.

    14. LFLex Fridman54:36

        How does it switch tabletops?

    15. SGSimone Giertz54:38

        It's a tambour mechanism. So, like tambour, like you'll have on like old record player. Um, like it's these like thin slats of wood with fabric on the back, and you can kind of get them to go around curves. So basically, one of the tabletops or table surfaces is tambour, and then there's a little crank and you can kind of roll it off to the side and it reveals another tabletop under it that you can then lift up, 'cause it's on cams. Um, so you can switch between the two.I think that one was both really difficult to pull off, and it's also one of few projects that I use in my everyday life. Like, I use it almost every day.

11. 55:13 – 1:01:29

    TED talk

    1. SGSimone Giertz55:13

    2. LFLex Fridman55:13

       You know what a really cool one was that, uh, that was part of your TED Talk? Where there's a rotating thing that you wear on your shoulders.

    3. SGSimone Giertz55:23

       Oh, (laughs) yes.

    4. LFLex Fridman55:23

       Was that hard to make? So for-

    5. SGSimone Giertz55:24

       Um...

    6. LFLex Fridman55:24

       ... for people who haven't seen your TED Talk, they should, of course, but it's a... How would you describe that?

    7. SGSimone Giertz55:29

       Oh, they cut out the best joke.

    8. LFLex Fridman55:31

       So you put... How would you call that device? Sorry, I'm trying to-

    9. SGSimone Giertz55:34

       I don't even know. I never used it beyond the TED Talk really. Um, yeah, but basically it's this shoulder rig, and it has this, like, almost like Saturn ring-looking platform that goes around. I can't even remember what the-

    10. LFLex Fridman55:48

        You-

    11. SGSimone Giertz55:48

        ... problem proposition was that I was trying to solve.

    12. LFLex Fridman55:51

        Variety probably, introducing variety-

    13. SGSimone Giertz55:53

        Yeah. (laughs)

    14. LFLex Fridman55:53

        ... into your life.

    15. SGSimone Giertz55:53

        Yeah, maybe.

    16. LFLex Fridman55:54

        And this, and an element of surprise because you can put popcorn as you did on it-

    17. SGSimone Giertz55:58

        Uh-huh.

    18. LFLex Fridman55:58

        ... and it goes around as a little hand. Why is a, like a tiny hand funny? I don't know. But it just slams whatever is on that thing-

    19. SGSimone Giertz56:07

        On it, yeah.

    20. LFLex Fridman56:07

        ... into your face.

    21. SGSimone Giertz56:08

        Yeah. I don't know.

    22. LFLex Fridman56:10

        Was that easy to make?

    23. SGSimone Giertz56:11

        Yeah. That one was fine. I can't... There was, I mean, my TED Talk was so... Yeah, for one, once again, they cut out my best joke.

    24. LFLex Fridman56:20

        What was the best joke?

    25. SGSimone Giertz56:21

        My best joke, and they didn't even ask me about it. It was, um... So there's this whole lead up where I built a chopping machine. So it's a machine that chops vegetables and has-

    26. LFLex Fridman56:32

        Yeah.

    27. SGSimone Giertz56:32

        ... two giant knives and it goes, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk.

    28. LFLex Fridman56:34

        Yep. That's a good one.

    29. SGSimone Giertz56:34

        And it's kind of terrifying. And I show a video of it, and then it ends on this GIF of it chopping up a banana. And I'm kind of scrunching up my face being like, "Ugh, ugh."

    30. LFLex Fridman56:45

        Yeah.
12. 1:01:29 – 1:10:07

    Brain tumor

    1. LFLex Fridman1:01:30

       The interesting thing about your TED Talk, to go to a dark topic ...

    2. SGSimone Giertz1:01:34

       Hmm.

    3. LFLex Fridman1:01:36

       (laughs)

    4. SGSimone Giertz1:01:36

       Is what happened when I walked off stage?

    5. LFLex Fridman1:01:39

       No. What happened when you walked off stage?

    6. SGSimone Giertz1:01:40

       Found out that I had a brain tumor. Was that not where you were going?

    7. LFLex Fridman1:01:44

       Yes.

    8. SGSimone Giertz1:01:44

       There's nothing else dark about my ... Yeah.

    9. LFLex Fridman1:01:46

       Well, yes. Um, I thought you knew through the TED Talk. You found out right after.

    10. SGSimone Giertz1:01:52

        I mean, the reason that I found out was partly because of the TED Talk, 'cause my mom came into town to be there for it, and my right eyelid was swollen and it had kind of been swelling over a while. And I'd even gotten comments about it on my YouTube channel. And I thought it was allergies, 'cause I was like, "Oh, it's just pollen allergies. It's just affecting my one eye 'cause maybe I sleep mostly on that side. I don't know." And my mom came into, um, the States and then Vancouver for my TED Talk and she's like "Simone, you have to, like, have a scan or see what's up. Well, like, we have to go to the doctor." And she really pushed me to do it, 'cause I was like, "I'm fucking fine." Um, and I had an MRI scan on like 5:00 PM on a Friday night. My boyfriend at the time was there. And I remember, like halfway through an MRI scan, they kinda pull you out, and they p- inject contrast fluid or this like thing that, yeah, just gives them another type of scan. And the nurse looked at me in this way and was like, "How long have you had symptoms for?"

    11. LFLex Fridman1:03:07

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SGSimone Giertz1:03:07

        And that's when I knew that they'd found something, and then they, like, shove you back into the machine for another 20 minutes, and my ex was just seeing, like, them, like, zooming in and out of my scans. And there was, like, this obviously something that just looked wrong in there, and they sent me to the ER, and I found out that I had a brain tumor the size of a golf ball that probably had been growing since I was a teenager. So, it'd been growing over like 10, 15 years. And, uh, yeah, I had surgery to remove it, and then it kept on growing, the parts that they couldn't remove, and I went through radiation treatment. So, that was like two years that just w- was kind of dedicated to just getting better and getting back to where I am now. (laughs) And I remember, like, I was so stoked about 2020 'cause I was like, "This is the first year that I'm not held back by my health, and I'm like finally gonna be able to do everything, unfeathered." And then the pandemic happens and you're kinda just like, "Okay," just in the backseat of what's happening and things that are out of my control again.

    13. LFLex Fridman1:04:06

        In your public, you made a couple of videos about-

    14. SGSimone Giertz1:04:09

        Yeah.

    15. LFLex Fridman1:04:09

        ... uh, about it. "I have a brain tumor." "My brain tumor is back."

    16. SGSimone Giertz1:04:12

        Mm-hmm.

    17. LFLex Fridman1:04:14

        You kinda, you know, you name your tumor Brian.

    18. SGSimone Giertz1:04:16

        Mm-hmm.

    19. LFLex Fridman1:04:17

        You kind of make it a lighthearted thing, but so you don't reveal much of the darkness. But were you scared? What were some low points?

    20. SGSimone Giertz1:04:27

        Yeah. Of course I was, of course I was scared. I mean, I w- it's terrifying. It's like ... And also when it's in your brain, like, you know, I was like, "Take any other part of me, but don't take my brain." Um, no, it's this unfathomable thing that happens and you're like, "I'm healthy. I've had ... How could this possibly be a brain tumor?" Like, "My eye is swollen." Like, there's nothing there. I haven't had any seizures. I haven't had any cognitive issues. I haven't had any headaches even. Like, how is that even possible? Um, so you go through a lot of different stages of just trying to understand what it is, and I think I remember being hit, like right as I found out when we were in like an Uber, poor Uber driver, from where I had my MRI scan to the ER where they sent me. And I was really, both really grateful that I've gotten so much more out of life than I ever thought I would. Like, I've had a hell of a life, and even if it would've ended really early, I would have done so much more than I ever thought. But I was also really, really sad that I hadn't had kids yet. Like, that was my big grief of like, "Fuck, I haven't had, had, had time to have kids yet." Um, but no, it's terrifying. I mean, the prospect of somebody cutting up your head, like that's terrifying. But it honestly wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be.

    21. LFLex Fridman1:05:57

        What about the radiation treatment? What, what are some things that, you know, people should, well, you learned about it, about the process and about yourself through that-

    22. SGSimone Giertz1:06:06

        Mm-hmm.

    23. LFLex Fridman1:06:06

        ... that, that people might be interested about?

    24. SGSimone Giertz1:06:09

        I think surgery was both harder and easier than radiation treatment because it was, it was harder because it was so much more intense, and it's such a dramatic thing, like, going to the hospital that morning and being like, uh, I don't know, and you feel so awful when you wake up and ... But then the recovery from it was pretty linear. Like almost every week, I would get a little bit better. The thing about radiation is that it was not linear at all, and it kind of drained me in this weird ... Like it was so hard to predict, and also they put me on these, um ... I spent months feeling like I was high out of my mind, and I couldn't process reality in a way that I normally would. Like, everything just felt off. Like I felt, yeah, it felt like I was high on drugs. And I kept on asking my doctors what was going on, and they're like, "No. I don't know. Don't think it's anything related." And I was on this Alzheimer's medicine that they put you on to prevent dementia from radiation treatment, like kind of as a preventative, and I found all these subreddits of people-... using that Alzheimer's medicine to get high.

    25. LFLex Fridman1:07:23

        (laughs)

    26. SGSimone Giertz1:07:23

        And people would be like, "Oh my God, bro-"

    27. LFLex Fridman1:07:25

        (laughs)

    28. SGSimone Giertz1:07:25

        "... I took like 20 milligrams yesterday and I was high out of my mind!" And I'm like, "I'm on 30 milligrams a day."

    29. LFLex Fridman1:07:32

        (laughs)

    30. SGSimone Giertz1:07:32

        Like, of course it feels weird. And that was honestly one of the scariest parts of it, because that was the first time where I felt like it genuinely affected my way of processing reality. And yeah, I was so relieved when I found out that that was what was causing it, 'cause I felt like I was going crazy. But even after surgery, like, I woke up and I felt like myself. Like, everything was... I had gotten no brain injury. So obviously this is, like, my experience from somebody who came out of it pretty unscathed, who didn't get any brain injuries and didn't have to do any of that recovery. It's more just the recovery from, like, the physical act of somebody cutting your skull open and taking a large chunk out.
13. 1:10:07 – 1:14:31

    Fear of death

    1. SGSimone Giertz1:10:07

       way.

    2. LFLex Fridman1:10:08

       How did that process change your relationship with death? Are you afraid of death?

    3. SGSimone Giertz1:10:14

       No.

    4. LFLex Fridman1:10:15

       Do you ponder your mortality?

    5. SGSimone Giertz1:10:17

       Yeah. I think it took away a part of youth for me.

    6. LFLex Fridman1:10:21

       Like the innocence?

    7. SGSimone Giertz1:10:23

       Yeah. I mean, you kind of think of terrible things as something that happens to other people, and death, and illness. Um, so I think it kind of fast-tracked that for me. But it mostly changed my relationship to life. It changed... It's made me so much more gentle with myself. Like, going through illness, it forces you to redefine what it means to be good. And before, being good had been pushing myself really hard. It had been working and, I don't know, just, just being really hard with myself and disciplined. And when you're healing from something, being good is listening to your body. It's resting. It's, like, really being in tuned with w- what your health, where your health is at. And I think that is something that's kind of stuck with me since then. I'm, like, so much more gentle and delicate with myself.

    8. LFLex Fridman1:11:23

       And with others? Or y- you-

    9. SGSimone Giertz1:11:24

       Ah, fuck of it. (laughs) No. I think it definitely...

    10. LFLex Fridman1:11:27

        (laughs)

    11. SGSimone Giertz1:11:28

        It's like, when you're young and healthy, it's really hard to-

    12. LFLex Fridman1:11:31

        (laughs) Yeah.

    13. SGSimone Giertz1:11:32

        ... um, know what it feels like to be ill.

    14. LFLex Fridman1:11:37

        Yeah.

    15. SGSimone Giertz1:11:38

        And I remember, you know, you, like, go to yoga class and you'd be like, "Oh my God, this is too slow. Like, I wanted to be... I have so much more energy, like, I need to..." And when I was recovering from my brain surgery, there was this yoga studio nearby my house and they had, uh, yoga for seniors, and I was so stoked, 'cause I was like, "Oh, this is a yoga class I'll be able to take."

    16. LFLex Fridman1:12:02

        Yeah.

    17. SGSimone Giertz1:12:02

        And I think that was really eye-opening of just like, there's no... You kind of imagine that it's just like, "Oh, just push yourself harder," but no, that's not it. With age or sickness or it's just you gotta be so gentle with yourself, and you have to cater to people where they're at.

    18. LFLex Fridman1:12:21

        Yeah, and just the appreciation of this, like, biological ve- vehicle you get, and you should take care of it.

    19. SGSimone Giertz1:12:28

        Being sick sucks.

    20. LFLex Fridman1:12:30

        Yeah.

    21. SGSimone Giertz1:12:30

        It's awful. And I really, I'm really motivated to postpone that for as much as I can. And also, I was so tremendously grateful when I got ill, that I felt like I had so much to take from. Like, I, I had so many energy reservoirs, I'd spent my life taking pretty decent care of my body, and, like, exercising and eating well and, like, not wrecking my body in any way. And I felt like this was the first time where that was so critical, and I felt like my body was ready for it, you know?

    22. LFLex Fridman1:13:05

        I thought you were gonna go the other way, like, um, you can, you can take care of your body all you want and it's, um, bad stuff happens, so you should, you should go on drug binges and-

    23. SGSimone Giertz1:13:15

        (laughs)

    24. LFLex Fridman1:13:15

        ... go wild and do crazy things and...

    25. SGSimone Giertz1:13:18

        I mean, I also had that, that thought where I was like, "I fucking floss every day. How do I-"

    26. LFLex Fridman1:13:22

        (laughs)

    27. SGSimone Giertz1:13:22

        "... have a brain tumor? I've been good. Like, why does this happen to me?" But more so, it was like my body was so resilient and ready for it. And, um, I was, I was really, really...... Proud of it.

    28. LFLex Fridman1:13:36

        It's amazing that the human body's able to recover from even the harshest things.

    29. SGSimone Giertz1:13:40

        Yeah, it's- it's wild. And my brain... So after- after surgery, 'cause, yeah, I had a brain tumor the size of a golf ball, kind of behind my right eye, and after brain surgery, you kind of just have this big hole in your head, like this void. And usually your brain stays that way, like it retains the shape even after the brain tumor is gone. But for some reason, my brain was feeling really ambitious and it has completely flopped back and I have almost like a normal-looking brain now-

    30. LFLex Fridman1:14:14

        Hmm.
14. 1:14:31 – 1:29:56

    Mass production

    1. LFLex Fridman1:14:31

    2. SGSimone Giertz1:14:32

       Yeah. (laughs)

    3. LFLex Fridman1:14:32

       Oh, a pretty cool thing I wanted to ask you about is the, uh, Everyday Calendar that you worked on.

    4. SGSimone Giertz1:14:36

       Mm-hmm.

    5. LFLex Fridman1:14:37

       That was a long time. That took a long time.

    6. SGSimone Giertz1:14:40

       Yeah. So basically I- I designed this calendar... Like, I wanted to start meditating every day.

    7. LFLex Fridman1:14:46

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SGSimone Giertz1:14:47

       But it's really hard to meditate every day and to like kind of build that habit. And what I would do is I would make these grids in my notebooks where I could like check a box for every day, like I just wanted like a little ding, I did it, and like this thing of accountability. But then I was like, "This is... I don't wanna have a notebook that I do this in. Like, I want an art piece that I can hang on my wall, like accountability art." And I made, uh, this thing called The Everyday Calendar, which has an entire year on it. So it's 365 days and if you tap any of the days you light it up.

    9. LFLex Fridman1:15:19

       Mm-hmm.

    10. SGSimone Giertz1:15:19

        And we turned it into a Kickstarter campaign and it's now a product that I'm selling in my- through my product business, The Giertz Store.

    11. LFLex Fridman1:15:25

        What's it called?

    12. SGSimone Giertz1:15:27

        The Giertz Store.

    13. LFLex Fridman1:15:28

        G- and, uh, that, for people who are confused, is the right way to pronounce your last name.

    14. SGSimone Giertz1:15:32

        Which does it, it's right but it's so wrong. It makes... My last name is spelled G-I-E-R-T-Z.

    15. LFLex Fridman1:15:40

        Who does- who does that song, uh, "If loving you is wrong, I don't wanna be right"?

    16. SGSimone Giertz1:15:44

        Yeah. (laughs)

    17. LFLex Fridman1:15:45

        That's funny.

    18. SGSimone Giertz1:15:45

        Pronouncing my last name, Giertz.

    19. LFLex Fridman1:15:48

        That's what, that's what makes me think... 'Cause, uh, what's his name?

    20. SGSimone Giertz1:15:51

        (laughs)

    21. LFLex Fridman1:15:51

        Uh, D- uh, the- the- from The Office, he covers it, um, from the British Office, which is the better Office. Ah. Okay, uh, tangent upon a tangent upon a tangent, so you said you created The Everyday Calendar-

    22. SGSimone Giertz1:16:05

        Mm-hmm.

    23. LFLex Fridman1:16:05

        ... to make a more "beautiful", in quotes, and more sacred goal star system on a wall.

    24. SGSimone Giertz1:16:09

        Mm-hmm.

    25. LFLex Fridman1:16:10

        Not a notebook that gets thrown into a drawer.

    26. SGSimone Giertz1:16:12

        Yeah. Wow, well said, past me.

    27. LFLex Fridman1:16:15

        (laughs)

    28. SGSimone Giertz1:16:15

        (laughs)

    29. LFLex Fridman1:16:16

        You, uh, you said that making this calendar "taught you a lot", in quotes. I feel like a- like a real investigative journalist.

    30. SGSimone Giertz1:16:23

        (laughs)

Episode duration: 1:59:13