Skip to content
Lex Fridman PodcastLex Fridman Podcast

Whitney Cummings: Comedy, Robotics, Neurology, and Love | Lex Fridman Podcast #55

Lex Fridman and Whitney Cummings on whitney Cummings on robots, neurology, love, and human hypocrisy.

Lex FridmanhostWhitney Cummingsguest
Dec 5, 20191h 16mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 15:00

    The following is a…

    1. LF

      The following is a conversation with Whitney Cummings. She's a stand-up comedian, actor, producer, writer, director, and recently, finally, the host of her very own podcast called Good For You. Her most recent Netflix special called Can I Touch It? features, in part, a robot she affectionately named BearClaw that is designed to be visually a replica of Whitney. It's exciting for me to see one of my favorite comedians explore the social aspects of robotics and AI in our society. She also has some fascinating ideas about human behavior, psychology, and urology, some of which she explores in her book called I'm Fine and Other Lies. It was truly a pleasure to meet Whitney and have this conversation with her, and even to continue it through texts afterwards. Every once in a while, late at night, I'll be programming over a cup of coffee and will get a text from Whitney saying something hilarious, or weirder yet, sending a video of Bryan Callen saying something hilarious. That's when I know the universe has a sense of humor, and it gifted me with one hell of an amazing journey. Then I put the phone down and go back to programming with a stupid, joyful smile on my face. If you enjoy this conversation, listen to Whitney's podcast, Good For You, and follow her on Twitter and Instagram. This is the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. If you enjoy it, subscribe on YouTube, give it five stars on Apple Podcasts, support it on Patreon, or simply connect with me on Twitter @lexfridman, spelled F-R-I-D-M-A-N. This show is presented by Cash App, the number one finance app in the App Store. They regularly support Whitney's Good For You podcast as well. I personally use Cash App to send money to friends, but you can also use it to buy, sell, and deposit Bitcoin in just seconds. Cash App also has a new investing feature, you can buy fractions of a stock, say $1 worth, no matter what the stock price is. Broker services are provided by Cash App Investing, a subsidiary of Square and member SIPC. I'm excited to be working with Cash App to support one of my favorite organizations called FIRST, best known for their FIRST Robotics and LEGO competitions. They educate and inspire hundreds of thousands of students in over 110 countries, and have a perfect rating on Charity Navigator, which means the donated money is used to maximum effectiveness. When you get Cash App from the App Store or Google Play and use code LEXPODCAST, you'll get $10 and Cash App will also donate $10 to FIRST, which, again, is an organization that I've personally seen inspire girls and boys to dream of engineering a better world. This podcast is supported by ZipRecruiter. Hiring great people is hard, and to me, is the most important element of a successful mission-driven team. I've been fortunate to be a part of and to lead several great engineering teams. The hiring I've done in the past was mostly through tools that we built ourselves, but reinventing the wheel was painful. ZipRecruiter's a tool that's already available for you. It seeks to make hiring simple, fast, and smart. For example, Kodable co-founder Gretchen Hebner used ZipRecruiter to find a new game artist to join her education tech company. By using ZipRecruiter's screening questions to filter candidates, Gretchen found it easier to focus on the best candidates and finally hiring the perfect person for the role in less than two weeks from start to finish. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. See why ZipRecruiter is effective for businesses of all sizes by signing up, as I did, for free at ziprecruiter.com/lexpod. That's ziprecruiter.com/lexpod. And now here's my conversation with Whitney Cummings. I have trouble making eye contact, as you can tell, right?

    2. WC

      Me too. Do you know that I had to work on making eye contact-

    3. LF

      Oh, yeah.

    4. WC

      ... 'cause I used to look here? Do you see what I'm doing?

    5. LF

      That helps, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    6. WC

      Do you want me to do that?

    7. LF

      No.

    8. WC

      I'll do this way, I'll cheat the camera.

    9. LF

      Okay.

    10. WC

      But I used to do this, and finally people... Like, I'd be on dates and guys would be like, "Are you looking at my hair?" Like, they-

    11. LF

      Yeah.

    12. WC

      ... get, it would make people really insecure because I didn't really get a lot of eye contact-

    13. LF

      Sure.

    14. WC

      ... as a kid. It's, it's one to three years. Did you not get a lot of eye contact as a kid?

    15. LF

      I don't know. I haven't, uh, done the soul-searching.

    16. WC

      Right.

    17. LF

      So, uh, but there's definitely some psychological issues there.

    18. WC

      Makes you uncomfortable?

    19. LF

      Yeah. For some reason, when I connect eyes, I start to think, uh, I assume that you're judging me. (laughs)

    20. WC

      Oh. Well, I am.

    21. LF

      (laughs)

    22. WC

      That's why you assume that.

    23. LF

      Yeah.

    24. WC

      We all are.

    25. LF

      All right.

    26. WC

      This is perfect. The podcast will be me and you both staring-

    27. LF

      (laughs)

    28. WC

      ... at the table the whole time. (laughs)

    29. LF

      Do you think robots of the future, ones with human-level intelligence, will be female, male, genderless, or another gender we have not yet created as a society?

    30. WC

      You're the expert at this. (laughs)

  2. 15:00 – 30:00

    So, it's like, oh,…

    1. WC

    2. LF

      So, it's like, oh, it's fun and games right now, but, uh, you know, overnight, especially if a- if a robot provides value to society, we'll put one in every home.

    3. WC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. LF

      And then all of a sudden lose track of the actual large-scale impact it has on society-

    5. WC

      Mm-hmm.

    6. LF

      ... and then all of a sudden gain greater and greater control to where we'll all be... You know, affect our political system and then affect our decisions a lot.

    7. WC

      Didn't robots already ruin our political system? Didn't that just already happen?

    8. LF

      Which ones? Oh, Russia hacking-

    9. WC

      No offense.

    10. LF

      (laughs)

    11. WC

      But hasn't that already happened?

    12. LF

      None taken.

    13. WC

      I mean, that was like an algorithm of negative things being clicked on more.

    14. LF

      We like to tell stories and we like to demonize certain people. I think nobody understands our current political system, our discourse on Twitter-

    15. WC

      Mm-hmm.

    16. LF

      ... the Twitter mobs. Nobody has a sense... Not Twitter, not Facebook, the people running it, nobody understands the impact of these algorithms. They're trying their best.

    17. WC

      Yeah.

    18. LF

      Despite what people think, they're not, like, a bunch of lefties trying to make sure that Hillary Clinton gets elected. It's more that, uh, it's an incredibly complex system that we don't...

    19. WC

      Yeah.

    20. LF

      And that's the worry. It's so complex and moves so fast that, uh, nobody will be able to stop it once it happens.

    21. WC

      And let me ask a question. This is a very savage question.

    22. LF

      Yeah.

    23. WC

      Which is, is this just the next stage of evolution as humans? And people will die. Yes, some- I mean, that's always happened, you know? Is- this is just taking emotion out of it. Is this basically the next stage of survival of the fittest?

    24. LF

      Yeah. You have to think of organisms. You know, what is it mean to be a living organism? Like, is a smartphone part of your living organism or-

    25. WC

      We're at- we're in relationships with our phones.

    26. LF

      Yeah, but it-

    27. WC

      We have sex through them, with them. What's the difference between with them and through them?

    28. LF

      But it also expands your cognitive abilities, expands your memory, knowledge and so on. So, you're a much smarter person because you have a smartphone in your hand.

    29. WC

      But it won't- as soon as it's out of my hand- (laughs)

    30. LF

      Yeah.

  3. 30:00 – 45:00

    I think, um, I…

    1. LF

      um, what should people think about it in general?

    2. WC

      I think, um, I think the most interesting thing I can probably say around this that's the least emotional, 'cause I'm actually a very non-emotional animal person because it's... I think everyone's an animal person, it's just a matter of it's, if it's yours or if you've, you know, been conditioned to go numb, you know? Um, I think it's really a testament to what, as a species, we are able to be in denial about. Mass denial and mass delusion, and how we're able to dehumanize and debase groups. Um, you know-... World War II, um, in a way, in order to conform and find protection in the conforming. So, we are also a species who used to go to coliseums and watch elephants and tigers fight to the death. We used to watch human beings be pulled apart in br- the c- it wasn't that long ago. We're also a species who had slaves, and it was socially acceptable by a lot of pe- people didn't see anything wrong with it. So, we're a species that is able to go numb and that is able to dehumanize very quickly and make it the norm. Child labor wasn't that long ago (laughs) . Like, the-

    3. LF

      Yeah.

    4. WC

      ... idea that now we look back and go, "Oh, yeah, kids were losing fingers in factories making shoes." Like, someone had to come in and make that s- you know? So, I think it just says a lot about the fact that, you know, we are animals and we are self-serving, and, um, one of the most success- the most successful species, because we are able to debase and degrade and essentially exploit anything that benefits us. I think the pendulum's gonna swing, as being, let's say-

    5. LF

      Which way?

    6. WC

      Like, I think we're Rome now, kind of (laughs) .

    7. LF

      (laughs)

    8. WC

      I think we're on the verge of collapse because we, our dopamine receptors, like, we are just... I think we're all kind of addicts when it comes to this stuff.

    9. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    10. WC

      Like, we don't know, um, when to stop. It's always the buffet. Like, we're... The thing that used to keep us alive, which is killing animals and eating them, now killing animals and eating them is what's killing us, in a way. So, it's like we just can't... We don't know when to call it, and we don't... Moderation is not really something that humans have evolved to have yet. So, I think it's really just a flaw in our wiring.

    11. LF

      Do you think we'll look back at this time as, uh, uh, uh, at our society as being deeply unethical?

    12. WC

      Yeah. Yeah. I think we'll be embarrassed.

    13. LF

      Which are the worst parts right now going on? Is it, is it-

    14. WC

      In terms of animal... Well, I think the-

    15. LF

      No, in terms of anything, what's the unethical thing? If we... And it's very hard just to take a step out of it, but, uh, you just said we used to watch, you know-

    16. WC

      Yeah.

    17. LF

      Uh, there's been a lot of cruelty throughout history.

    18. WC

      Mm-hmm.

    19. LF

      What's the cruelty going on now?

    20. WC

      I think it's gonna be pigs. I think it's gonna be... I mean, pigs are one of the most emotionally intelligent animals, and they have the intelligence of, like, a three-year-old, and I think we'll look back and be really gr- they're s- they use tools. I mean, they're, um... I think we have this narrative that they're pigs and they're pigs and they're, they're disgusting and they're dirty and their bacon is so g- I think that we'll look back one day and be really embarrassed about that.

    21. LF

      Is this for just, um, what's it called? The factory farming?

    22. WC

      Mm-hmm.

    23. LF

      So, basically mass-

    24. WC

      'Cause we don't see it. If you saw it-

    25. LF

      Yeah.

    26. WC

      I mean, we do have... I mean, this is probably an evolutionary advantage. We do have the ability to completely pretend something's not... something that is so horrific that it overwhelms us, and we are able to essentially deny that it's happening. I think if people were to see-

    27. LF

      Yeah.

    28. WC

      ... what goes on in factory farming, and also were really to take in, um, how bad it is for us. You know, we're hurting ourselves first and foremost with what, what we eat, but that's also a very elitist argument. You know? Um, it's a luxury to be able to complain about meat. It's a luxury to be able to not eat meat, you know? There's very few people because of, you know, how the corporations have set up meat being cheap, you know? It's $2 to buy a Big Mac. It's $10 to buy a healthy meal. You know, that's... I think a lot of people don't have the luxury to even think that way. But I do think that animals in captivity, I think we're gonna look back and be pretty grossed out about, mammals in captivity, whales, dolphins. I mean, that's already starting to dismantle. Circuses, um, we're gonna be pretty embarrassed about. But I think it's really more a testament to, you know, there's just such a, a ability to go, like, "That thing is different-

    29. LF

      Yeah.

    30. WC

      ... than me, and we're better." It's the ego. I mean, it's just... We have the species with the biggest ego, ultimately.

  4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

    You know, I know…

    1. LF

      and talking about neurology and just kinda look at human behavior through the lens of, uh, of looking at how our actually chemically our brain works. So what... First of all, h- why did you connect with that idea and what have you... How has your view of the world changed by considering the, the brain as just a machine?

    2. WC

      You know, I know it probably sounds really nihilistic, but I, for me, it's very liberating to know a lot about neurochemicals because you don't have to... It's like the same thing with, like, like critics, like critical reviews.

    3. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    4. WC

      If you believe the good, you have to believe the bad kind of thing. Like, you know, if you believe that your bad choices were because of your moral integrity, or whatever, you have to believe your good ones. I just think there's something really liberating in going like, "Oh, that was just adrenaline."

    5. LF

      Yeah.

    6. WC

      "I just said that thing 'cause I was adrenalized and I was scared-

    7. LF

      Yeah.

    8. WC

      ... and my amygdala was activated, and that's why I said you're an asshole and get out." And that's, you know, I think, I just think it's important to delineate what's nature and what's nurture, what is your choice and what is just your brain trying to keep you safe. I think we forget that even though we have security systems in homes and locks on our doors, that our brain for the most part is just trying to keep us safe all the time. It's why we hold grudges, it's why we get angry, it's why we get road rage, it's why we do a lot of things. And it's also, when I started learning about neurology, I started having so much more compassion for other people.

    9. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    10. WC

      You know? If someone yelled at me, being like, "Fuck you!" on the road, I'd be like, "Okay, he's producing adrenaline right now-

    11. LF

      (laughs)

    12. WC

      ... because we're all going 65 miles an hour-

    13. LF

      Yeah.

    14. WC

      ... and our brains aren't really designed-

    15. LF

      Yeah.

    16. WC

      ... for this type of stress, and he's scared." He was scar- You know, so that really helped me to have more love for people in my everyday life, um, instead of being in fight or flight mode. But, um, the, I think, more interesting answer to your question is that I've had migraines my whole life. Like, I've suffered with really intense migraines. Um, ocular migraines, ones where my arm would go numb, and I just started (laughs) having to go to so many doctors to learn about it. And I started, you know, learning that we don't really know that much.

    17. LF

      Right.

    18. WC

      We know a lot, but it's wild to go into one of the best neurologists in the world who's like, "Yeah, we don't know."

    19. LF

      "We don't know."

    20. WC

      "We don't know." And that fascinated me. I was like-

    21. LF

      That's like one of the worst pains you can probably have, all that stuff, and we don't know the source.

    22. WC

      We don't know the source, and there is something really fascinating about when your left arm starts going numb and you start not being able to see out of the left side of both your eyes. And I remember when the migraines get really bad, they're, it's like a mini-stroke almost, and you're able to see words on a page-

    23. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    24. WC

      ... but I can't read them. They just look like symbols to me.

    25. LF

      Oh, wow.

    26. WC

      So there's something just really fascinating to me about your brain just being able to stop functioning. And I, so I just wanted to learn about it, study about it. Um, I did all these weird alternative treatments. I got this piercing in here that actually works. I've tried everything. And then both my parents had strokes. So when both of my parents had strokes, I became sort of the person who had to decide what (laughs) was gonna happen with their recovery-

    27. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    28. WC

      ... which is just a wild thing to have to deal with at, you know, 28 years old, um, when it happened. And I started spending basically all day every day in ICUs with neurologists learning about what happened to my dad's brain and why he can't move his left arm but he can move his right leg, but he can't see out of the... You know. And then my mom had another stroke, um, in a different part of the brain. So I started having to learn what parts of the brain did what, and so that I wouldn't take their behavior so personally and so that I would be able to manage my expectations in terms of their recovery.

    29. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    30. WC

      So my mom, because it affected a lot of her frontal lobe, changed a lot as a person. She was way more emotional. She was way more micromanaged. She was forgetting certain things. So-... it broke my heart less when I was able to know, "Oh, yeah, well, the stroke hit this part of the brain, and that's the one that's responsible for short-term memory, and that's responsible for long-term memory," da-da-da. And then my brother just got something called viral encephalitis, which is an infection inside the brain. (laughs) So-

  5. 1:00:00 – 1:14:00

    (laughs) …

    1. WC

      is like, "What's my rank? What's my-" And especially if we're following people. I think the, the big, the, the interesting thing I think I'll maybe be able, able to say about this, besides my speech impediment-

    2. LF

      (laughs)

    3. WC

      ... is that I did start muting people that rank wildly higher than me-

    4. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    5. WC

      ... because it is just stressful on the brain-

    6. LF

      I think it is.

    7. WC

      ... to constantly look at people that are incredibly successful so you keep feeling bad about yourself, you know? I think that that is like cutting, to a certain-

    8. LF

      Yeah.

    9. WC

      ... extent. Just, like, "Look at me looking at all these people that have so much more money than me and so much more success than me. It's making me feel like a failure, even though I don't think I'm a failure." But it's easy to frame it so that I can feel that way.

    10. LF

      Yeah, that's really interesting, uh, especially if they're close to, like if they're other comedians or something like that, or whatever.

    11. WC

      That's right.

    12. LF

      That's, it's- it's really disappointing to me. I- I do the same thing as well. So, other successful people that are really close to what I do, it, um-I don't know. I, I wish I could just admire-

    13. WC

      Yeah.

    14. LF

      ... and for it not to be a distraction, but, uh-

    15. WC

      But that's why you are where you are, 'cause you don't just admire, you're competitive and you want to win. So, it's also the same thing that bums you out when you look at this is the same reason you are where you are.

    16. LF

      Right.

    17. WC

      So, that's why I think it's so important to learn about neurology and addiction, 'cause you're able to go, like, "Oh, the same instinct..." So, I'm very sensitive and I, I sometimes don't like that about myself, but I'm like, "Well, that's the reason I'm able to-

    18. LF

      Right.

    19. WC

      ... write good standup." And that's the reason-

    20. LF

      Yeah.

    21. WC

      ... and that's the reason I'm able to be sensitive to feedback and go, "That joke should have been better. I can make that better." So, it's a kind of thing where it's, like, you have to be really sensitive in your work, and the second you leave, you gotta be able to turn it off. It's about developing the muscle of being able to know when to let it be a superpower and when it's going to hold you back and be an obstacle. So, I try to not be in that black and white of, like, you know, being competitive is bad or being jealous of someone. Just to go, like, "Oh, there's that thing that makes me really successful in a lot of other ways, but right now it's making me feel bad."

    22. LF

      Well, I'm kind of looking to you, 'cause you're, you're basically a celebrity, a famous, uh, sort of world-class comedian. And so, I feel like you're the right person to, uh, be one of the key people to define what's the healthy path forward with social media. So, I ... 'Cause we're all trying to figure it out now, and it's, uh, I'm curious to see where it evolves. I, I think you're at the center of that. So, like, we ... You know, there's, uh, you know, trying to leave Twitter and then come back and see-

    23. WC

      Yeah.

    24. LF

      ... can I do this in a healthy way? I mean, you have to keep trying, exploring, and thinking about-

    25. WC

      You have to know, because it's being pr- y- you know. I have a couple answers. I think, you know, I hire a company to do some of my social media for me.

    26. LF

      Yeah.

    27. WC

      You know? So, it's also being able to go, "Okay, I make a certain amount of money by doing this, but now let me be a good business person and say I'm going to pay you this amount to run this for me so I'm not 24/7 in the weeds hashtagging and responding."

    28. LF

      Yes.

    29. WC

      And just, it's a lot to take on. It's a lot of energy to take on. But at the same time, part of what I think makes me successful on social media, if I am, is that people know I'm actually doing it, and that I am engaging and I'm responding and developing a personal relationship, uh, with complete strangers. So, I think, you know, figuring out that balance and really approaching it as a business. You know, that's what I try to do. It's not dating. It's not ... And I try to just be really objective about, "Okay, here's what's working. Here's what's not working." And in terms of taking the break from Twitter, this is a really savage take, but because I don't talk about my politics publicly, being on Twitter right after the last election was not gonna be beneficial, because there was gonna be s- you had to take a side.

    30. LF

      Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 1:16:57

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode 0-3kw5BEKB8

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome