The Mel Robbins Podcast#1 Neuroscientist: How to Motivate Yourself (and Others) to Change Any Behavior
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
115 min read · 22,685 words- 0:00 – 0:50
Intro
- MRMel Robbins
(instrumental music plays) Every single one of us has somebody in our lives that we love, but we would love to have them change, whether it's to have them be healthier and exercise more or be better with money or maybe clean up after themselves or get motivated and find another job. No amount of pressure (laughs) or wanting or wishing is working, at least I- not in my marriage.
- GUGuest
We wanna change people in our life, whether it's our partner or our kids or our parents or our employees. By doing that, we can control our world. I think in- in some situations, perhaps what we need is to work on ourselves. How do we- (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
That's not the answer I wanna hear. (clock ticks) (drum roll) I am so glad that you tuned in today. I'm Mel. I'm so excited about this conversation because
- 0:50 – 3:11
Do you want to learn how to change people’s opinions and behaviors?
- MRMel Robbins
you and I are gonna be learning from a world-renowned neuroscientist whose research focuses on how you can change other people's behaviors and opinions. And you know how I always say that you should share these episodes with the people that you love? Well, this one, you are really gonna wanna share, because you're gonna learn why guilt, pressure, fear, crying, pleading, threats, ultimatums are not working with the people in your life, and they're not working when the people in your life use 'em on you. And there's a scientific reason why. By the end of this episode, you're gonna understand exactly what to do to motivate someone and yourself to change any behavior. Doctor Tali Sharot is a behavioral neuroscientist and the director of the Affective Brain Lab at University College London. Her research integrates neuroscience, behavioral economics, and psychology to study how emotion and motivation influences people's beliefs and decisions. And she's also the bestselling author of three books, including the brand-new book, Look Again. Welcome, Doctor Sharot, to The Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm so thrilled that you're here.
- GUGuest
I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
- MRMel Robbins
I was super excited to have you come on, because every single one of us has somebody in our lives that we love, but we would love to have them change, whether it's to have them be healthier and exercise more or be better with money or maybe clean up after themselves or get motivated and find another job. And no amount of pressure (laughs) or wanting or wishing is working, at least I- not in my marriage. So I'm just gonna paint a scenario for you so that everybody who's listening, whether they're dealing with this situation or not, can start to apply it to that dynamic. So let's just say you have somebody that you love, and they're sitting on the couch, and it's a Sunday afternoon, and they're happily watching golf. And as you see them sitting there, you feel this judgment (laughs) and frustration rise in your body, and you start to think, "Why aren't they outside exercising? Why are they not..." like all the things that you would like for them to be doing. And I think we know in our minds that the eye roll
- 3:11 – 5:21
What we’re getting wrong about motivating the people we love.
- MRMel Robbins
or the, "Hey, it's nice outside, you should go for a run," is probably not gonna work. But why do we have this desire to wanna control what somebody else is doing? And so what are we getting wrong based on the research about trying to change other people?
- GUGuest
So there is a lot that we're getting wrong, but maybe just the- the premise that, you know, when you wanna try to change someone, obviously what they're feeling is, "You wanna try to control me."
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
Right? And- and that is really the worst thing. I mean, once someone feels like you're trying to control them, you're trying to restrict their agency, that lowers their motivation. Then we feel anxious.
- MRMel Robbins
Why do we have this desire to wanna control what somebody else is doing?
- GUGuest
So the desire to control is the main desire of a human being, right? We wanna control everything, and the- the reason it's kind of high- high- um, hardwired into us is because it is adaptive. If we can control it, imagine a- imagine a scenario, you can control everything. Well, then, right, you could get all the rewards, whether it is social rewards or just, you know, money, food that, you know, and avoid all the harms if you were... So we have this instinct, right, of the need to control. We have a need, and then that's true for everything around us, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
And, of course, there's like- there's individual differences, right? You have these like highly controlling people and people that are more relaxed, but it is this need that we all have to some extent. And I think for some people, um, they kind of learn to overcome them, overcome the needs, and particularly in certain situations, like in a partnership, right? You have to learn that it's not helpful, right? And I think it's not helpful in a partnership partially because when you do those kind of things, it makes also the other person feel not only you're trying to control them, but that they're not enough, right, that you're kind of like seeing the negatives rather than the positives in this other person. Um, so
- 5:21 – 8:19
This is what we actually should be doing before trying to change others.
- GUGuest
I think in- in some situations, perhaps what we need is to work on ourselves. How do we- (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
That's not the answer I wanna hear. (laughs)
- GUGuest
(laughs) How do we just let them, you know, watch whatever they're watching? So, I mean, you have to pick your battles, right?
- MRMel Robbins
First of all, thank you for explaining this because you're making me, and I hope the person listening, to stop and actually think about the bigger dynamic here. So on one hand, every single human being wants to feel a sense of control over themselves, and so when you were- you used the word agency. Is that what that means, that I'm in control of myself?
- GUGuest
Right, exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. So you want to feel in control of yourself, the person that...... is in your life, whether it's a partner or a parent or a child or a colleague, anybody that you kinda would like them to change something. You both are feeling this need to control your own world, and basically what you're saying, and I've never thought about it this way, is that my desire to want other people to just be a little better because it's gonna help their health, it might help them with their money, it might make them happier, that's my opinion, my desire to control them is in direct conflict with their fundamental need to be in control of themselves and their own life and their decisions.
- GUGuest
Absolutely. And at the same time, part of the reason that we have a desire to change others is our desire to control. Even-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
... even if it's not-
- MRMel Robbins
I got... Okay, wait, hold on.
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Let me see if I got this. So part of the reason why we have a desire to change others is because it's part of our need to control everything in our own life.
- GUGuest
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you explain more about that? Like...
- GUGuest
We wanna change people in our life, whether it's our partner or our kids or our parents or our employees or pe- colleagues, partially because by doing that, we can control our world, right, to some extent. And I mean, it's not... It could be subtle and it could be not even something we're conscious of, but that's part of the- what's going on. Now, all that being said, we also have a responsibility to help others, right, to alter others.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- GUGuest
Even if we think we're not doing that, we are doing that. The way you behave, the emotions that you show to others, that, what you do, your choices are gonna affect people around you. We need to think about what is our influence and is it a good one, right? And we have more of it than we think, 'cause in fact you're actually influencing just people randomly around you. So if you sit on, um, you know, in the subway and you're eating an apple, um, you don't realize it, but that actually is gonna (laughs) influence what other people around you feel like eating or what they choose later, to some extent. It has some influence, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Really?
- 8:19 – 13:03
How you are influencing people without even knowing it.
- MRMel Robbins
- GUGuest
Um, yes. I mean, don't you feel that? You f- you see someone eating an ice cream and you're like... A lot of time I see someone eating it, I was like, "Oh, I want an ice cream too." Right? So it has some influence. But let's take another example. If someone's stressed, you don't know this person, they're just sitting or, you know, just in front of you on a subway, they will have some impact on your emotional state. Um, and there's many studies showing that people are stressed or make people around them more stressed even if they don't know them, even if they're not actual people in their life, right, just random people. If you're happy and joyful, that also will... It- it's called emotional contagion, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
So that will happen. And it happens for a good evolutionary reason, which is if you're fearful or stressed, there might be something around us that is a reason that I should be fearful and stressed as well, right? So I pick this up, right? Your- the- the kind of little facial clues that say you're afraid, my brain is- is saying, "Ooh, she's afraid. You know, maybe there's something dangerous here," and so I then have this fear as well. And this is- all happens really, really fast and really, really subconsciously. Um, or if you're very, like, excited, maybe there's something around us that I should be excited about, right? It's... Again, it's not conscious, but our brain does this very, very quickly. So it's important for people to just consider that, that we have a lot of impact on people around us, and m- I mean, much more when it comes to people who are actually in our home.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
Right? Our family or in our workplace.
- MRMel Robbins
I already have a couple takeaways, and I wanna pause and highlight them to make sure that I am tracking, because you're making me see things at a deeper level than I think I've ever considered. And first of all, I'm learning that of course we have influence over the people around us. Of course you have the power to influence somebody's behavior for better or for worse. So that's one thing, and I think that's good news 'cause you hear a lot of that, you know, "You can't change somebody else." I'm also realizing that the need to control your own life and your own surroundings is what's pushing you to push other people to do things. And so that may never go away, but what I'm hoping is that you can teach us how to be more effective with the influence that we have on other people so that we can influence them for the better. So let's go to the scenario where your, uh, significant other's sitting on the couch. They're happily watching golf on a Sunday. You come in and you see them, and you immediately have this sense of judgment and you have an opinion and you have this desire to control. And I'm also going to say in that scenario, I'm typically somewhat stressed. And so my stress-
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... uh, in the situation, even though I think I'm a loving person and I really care about this person and I'm right, I'm certain that my, uh, significant other on the couch happily watching golf is picking up on my stress, either through the tone of voice or the eye roll or some hormone I'm emitting, and I would imagine that they then respond with stress. Is that also kind of part of what's going on, that you're escalating it without realizing it?
- GUGuest
Absolutely. And perhaps what you're trying to do is reduce your own stress, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, wait.
- GUGuest
By changing the other person.
- MRMel Robbins
That's right because-
- GUGuest
Change your emotional state, right? I mean, there is a lot of reasons why this could be, but A, if you're stressed and now I'm able to impact my environment, perhaps, like, change the behavior of my partner, that could actually reduce my stress, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
And so maybe subconsciously what you're trying to do is reduce your stress, or maybe you're stressed because y- you know, you are concerned about your partner.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
Um, you know, maybe they have a heart condition or... and that causes you stress. And- and again, what you're trying to do is reduce your stress by altering the other person.
- MRMel Robbins
It's so true, because-
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... if you're worried about somebody, because you're worried about their spending, or you're worried that they're not taking care of themselves, or you're worried that they're in a dead-end job, that causes you stress. And so you think the solution is make that other person change and then this problem that I'm feeling goes away, and then we call it love. (laughs)
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
And it's not that at all. So maybe we can dig into why exactly this doesn't work, because it is my mission that after this conversation that as you listen to this, you not only have epiphanies and insights, but you've got a deeper understanding of why the way you've been approaching this, for yourself and other people, isn't working. And that should inspire you, I hope, to try a tactic that will based on the
- 13:03 – 18:44
Why guilt, pressure, and fear will not help someone change.
- MRMel Robbins
research. Does fear ever motivate somebody to change?
- GUGuest
So it depends what kind of change you want. And here's the difference.
- MRMel Robbins
'Kay.
- GUGuest
Do you want someone to start acting in a certain way, going to the gym, working hard, right? Or do you want them to stop acting? To s- and that matters. Like for example, um, do you want someone not to share confidential information? Right? Do you want to induce action or inaction?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. So I want you to listen, and as you're listening, I want you to think about whatever scenario. And does this work with both other people and yourself?
- GUGuest
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, great. So are you trying to make yourself start to do something new, like exercise, or stop doing something like gossiping? Okay.
- GUGuest
Right. So it is especially... Fear is especially not effective if you're trying to get someone to act. Okay? And-
- MRMel Robbins
Gotcha. So the proactive, "You're gonna go do this new thing," fear does not work.
- GUGuest
Right. So for example, telling someone, "If you don't go to the gym, you'll be fat." Right?
- MRMel Robbins
'Kay.
- GUGuest
That's a fear strategy. And you're trying to use a fear strategy to get someone to do something.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
Right? And the reason it doesn't work so well is f- because of something known as the approach avoidance principle. So what is that? To get the good stuff in life, whether it's a promotion, or chocolate cake, um, or love, you need to do something. I'm thirsty. I need to move my arm to get this water and have a drink. Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
So to get the good stuff, on average, we need to act. And so our brain has evolved in this kind of environment where there's a connection between a reward and an action.
- MRMel Robbins
'Kay.
- GUGuest
And so when we concentrate about the reward or we expect something good, a go signal is activated deep in our brain and it makes us more likely to act.
- MRMel Robbins
That's cool.
- GUGuest
On the other hand, to avoid the bad stuff in life, whether it's untrustworthy people, or deep waters, or poison, often, not always, but often what we need to do is not to act.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
Right? And so there's a connection that kind of evolved in our brain where when we expect something bad, there's a no-go signal deep in our brain, goes all the way to our motor cortex, and makes inaction more likely. It reduces action. Of course, we're sophisticated creatures. We can overcome this. So that means if, you know, if you think something bad is gonna happen, mostly you first freeze. Only then you do something. Right? So a reward, I'm running. Bad thing, I'm standing put. Right? And so you can see why to motivate someone to act, it's better to kind of highlight the reward, not the fear, 'cause fear causes inaction.
- MRMel Robbins
That's huge. Okay. So I just wanna make sure that I got this, 'cause I think I just really understood it. You're basically saying any time that you use fear or a make wrong on yourself or someone that you love, it causes you as a human being to freeze.
- GUGuest
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
It is completely backfiring as a tactic. If you're expecting somebody to go proactively be better with money, or to look for a job, or to have healthier habits, or to get out of bed earlier, or to help out more around the house, if you're using fear and make wrong, the immediate reaction internally is paralysis, fear, hesitation.
- GUGuest
Yeah. That's the immediate reaction.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- GUGuest
And of course you can overcome this. You know. So I'm not saying any time that people are afraid or any time that you use fear, it's not gonna work. But that's kind of the basic mechanism. We've done really simple experiments where we ask people, they have to press a button to get money.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
So that's a reward. Action, reward. Right? And then we have a condition where they have to press a button to avoid losing money. So they have to act to avoid a punishment. They're much better at pressing the button to get the money. Right?
- 18:44 – 22:25
The 3 specific tactics that will inspire anyone to change quickly.
- MRMel Robbins
your research, you say that there are three different types of way that you can motivate someone or yourself to change. Can you... What are the three? And then, let's walk through them one by one.
- GUGuest
So one is social proof-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
... right, social incentives. What are other people doing? Um, it is a relatively easy way to change behavior, right, highlighting the positive action of others. Um, and let me give you an example of how this is done. Maybe we'll start kind of, like, on a large level, then we go into our personal life.
- MRMel Robbins
Great.
- GUGuest
So, um, the British government, they used to send a letter to people who didn't pay their taxes on time-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
... um, and they said, you know, "It's really important to pay your taxes," and that didn't help very well. So then after that, they added one sentence, and that sentence said, "Nine out of ten people in Britain pay their taxes on time." Right? So they're highlighting the good behavior of others, and that increased compliance by 15% and fought to bring the government 5.6 billion pounds. So-
- MRMel Robbins
That's amazing.
- GUGuest
... really easy, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, now let me ask you though, because here's the thing. If I listen to that example, I think to myself, "If I were to march in and say to my husband, Chris, 'You know, Tali's husband is exercising every day of the week, and he looks really great,' that would probably not motivate Chris, I don't think," but that's the social proof. Like, how do you use social proof when you're trying to nudge somebody else in a positive way?
- GUGuest
Okay. The other kind of thing to think about when it comes to social incentives and social proofs is, again, we talked about this a little bit before, is that if you're trying to change a behavior, it's really helpful to model that behavior, right? You want kids not to be on their phones, and you're on the phone half the time, right? That's not good. Or you want them to eat well, but then, you know, you're not eating the apple. Well, that's not good. So you need to model the behavior. And so with, like, getting your husband to go out and run, you can come in and, like, be like, "Oh, ready for a run?" and then a- you know, try to convince him to come along with you, right?
- MRMel Robbins
You-
- GUGuest
Maybe it's more, like, for you, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Got it. Y- y- you know the joke of the example that I gave you is that Chris is the one that exercises, and I'm the one sitting on the couch.
- GUGuest
Okay. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
So I have... Another, uh, one of the three ways to motivate people is immediate reward.
- GUGuest
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you give an example of how you can create an immediate reward from somebody else, and how do you even figure out what's a reward for someone else that they might respond to?
- GUGuest
So one clear immediate reward that everyone loves is kind of, like, reinforcing them, social feedback-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- GUGuest
... when they do something and you say, like, "Ooh, that's great." So a friend of mine, anytime when I ask him about, like, "Oh, how are your kids are doing?" or w- or I ask him about something that he told me that he was having trouble with-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
... he was trying to get over. Th- there's, like, sometimes a colleague that he was having a problem, uh, and then, like, a week later, I was asking, "Oh, how did... What happened?" What he always says is, like, "Oh, thank you for asking."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- GUGuest
You know? And by saying, "Thank you for asking," that causes me to want to do that kind of thing again, right, to be kind of perceptive about what it w- like, what people are telling me, to ask about it. So he's basically reinforcing this behavior by giving me an immediate reward. The moment I did this, he said, "Thank you for asking," and that's my reward, right?
- MRMel Robbins
This is so fascinating, and I think it's really important, and so I wanna see if I am tracking with you-
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and go back into our living room where that unsuspecting person is sitting on the couch happily watching golf, and
- 22:25 – 24:03
How you should approach someone to make any behavior change.
- MRMel Robbins
you walk in the room, and you're really stressed out. And if we take what you just told us to do based on the research, if you were to do something negative, and you were to pressure them, "You nah, nah, nah," or whatever, "I- I'm not gonna let you turn on, um, mah, mah, mah," that you're basically saying the brain doesn't even absorb it. They just tune you right out, and they are not motivated. But if you were to go, "Hey, honey, you know, it's beautiful outside, and if you go outside and you actually get your run in after this golf match is over, you're gonna be so much more energized tomorrow morning," that that would be a better way?
- GUGuest
Yes, absolutely. I had someone tell me that, um, they learned about this, and then, uh, they went back to their teenage boy, which usually they had a lot of struggles in the evening about when to go to sleep.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- GUGuest
Right? And they usually said, "Well, if you don't go to sleep by 10:00 PM, you're gonna be tired the next day," and so on, and it didn't work. But then after reading the book, she went back, and she said, um, "If you go to sleep early, you'll look better and be more injected- energetic for your girlfriend." Um, and she said that worked perfectly well. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) Well, I mean, it's such a simple trick-
- GUGuest
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... but it makes so much sense.
- GUGuest
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And I'm even thinking about it with myself. Like, I'm constantly shaming myself, "Oh, I should get up. I should-"
- GUGuest
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
"... do this thing. I should-"
- GUGuest
Absolutely.
- MRMel Robbins
"... do that other thing," versus thinking about, "Well, what do I actually care about?"
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"Like, if I were to do this, I'm gonna feel better in an hour."
- GUGuest
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
Versus, "You know, you blah, blah, blah. " And I guess that brings me to the next question, which is
- 24:03 – 27:14
Why is it so hard to make ourselves do what we should want to do?
- MRMel Robbins
we all know what we could or should be doing, right? You know that if you wanna be healthier, you need to exercise today. You know that if you wanna write the book, you need to be writing today. You know that if you'd like to be in a different job in a year, you better dust off your resume and do it today. Why is it so hard to make ourselves do those things? Why do we procrastinate when we know what that positive thing is that we do want?
- GUGuest
So that positive things in all the examples that you just gave, they're in the future, right? While the good stuff is just in front of you, right? So the chocolate cake is there. I can have a bite now and immediately I'll get a sugar rush. Immediately. It's certain. Or the drink is there, I'll drink it and for the immediate time, it will make me feel good, right? Or I can sit on the couch and watch golf, or a Netflix show, or whatever, and that will be an immediate gratification. The joy is immediate. For all the other things that you said, I will do the action now, but mostly the rewards will be in the future. So, I write the book now, it'll be published, like, in two years, right? (laughs) I, um, exercise now. I will eventually fit into my jeans, but it's not gonna happen immediately. Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
So there is this problem between... It's a temporal gap between what we need to do, which we need to do it now, and the reward that we will get would be in the future, versus the stuff that's probably not good for us, but the reward is immediate, right? So that- that's a problem. Um, and part of the problem is what's known as temporal discounting or present bias.
- MRMel Robbins
What does temporal mean?
- GUGuest
Right. Oh, temporal is just time, right? And-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, okay, great. So there's a huge gap of time between the action I need to take and the long-term benefit of taking this action right now.
- GUGuest
Right. And there's this thing called temporal bias, uh, or temporal discounting, which is basically this phenomena, which makes sense, by which we value things in the present-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
... more than things in the future. It's not that we don't care about the future. You care about the future, but if, for example, I- I tell people, "What would you rather have, $100 now or 110 next week?" Most people will take 100 now. We discount the future to some degree, which if you think about it makes sense-
- MRMel Robbins
Of course.
- GUGuest
... because our future is uncertain, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
Maybe I'll go to the gym and I won't actually end up, you know, being able to get into my jeans. Maybe I'll write the book, but it'll be a failure in the future. So the future is very, very uncertain, so it makes-
- MRMel Robbins
Well, and plus you've also taught us that we have this imperative personally to stay in control. And so what is also in my control right now is the $100 that you're about to hand me or the Netflix show that's on right now, and so that- is that playing a role in this too?
- GUGuest
Yes. I think because we have more control now, right? At least the perception of it. Um, in fact, if I do something now, it will impact the future, so I do have some control over the future, but because it's relatively uncertain because there's so many days and s- everything can happen.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
Maybe I'll die tomorrow, right? So I put all this work in and then I'm dead in a week, right? Um, so it's easier to just go with the immediate. It's- it's more attractive,
- 27:14 – 30:49
Use this trick to get yourself to act now for future rewards.
- GUGuest
right?
- MRMel Robbins
And is there a trick to get yourself to act now-
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and do things now that are hard that actually make your life easy in the longer run?
- GUGuest
The number one trick is to give yourself immediate rewards. What do I mean? Let's say usually when you think about going to the gym you say, "I want to go the g-" uh, I don't want to, but I need to go to the gym so I can get these future rewards, which I'll be skinny and healthier and whatever in the future, right? But think about what will you get immediately, or you can do that for someone else, right? What will you get immediately if you go now for the fu- uh, to the gym, not only what will you get to the future. So let's say for yourself it might be... Someone told me they... Anytime they go on the treadmill, they allow themselves to watch, like, a trashy show that usually they don't allow themselves, right? That's the immediate reward. Or you go for a run and you're listening to a podcast, right? Immediate reward. And you can also give it to someone else. Um, there was a woman who came to me after a talk and she said she wanted to get her husband to go to the gym-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
... um, and he didn't really like it, but then eventually he went one day and when he got back, uh, I don't think it was intentional, but she kind of, like, touched his arm and was like, "Oh, I can really feel your muscles," right? And she said, "Well, that did it." Right? He- that caused him to go back the next day. So that was the immediate reward.
- MRMel Robbins
You know what else I'm gaining from your research is that if the mistake that we've been making by pressuring, judging, guilting, all that other stuff highlights the bad behavior, then when you give your love and attention appreciation to calling out the good behavior, you are really now helping them move toward that. Instead of creating that paralysis, you're actually fueling the tank, so to speak. That's super cool.
- GUGuest
Yeah. And make sure to do that. For some- for some reason, like, our kind of automatic reaction is kind of to focus on, "Oh, they're not doing that enough," and when they- when people do-do, we just, like... We might in our head say, "Oh, that's nice," but we have to actually verbalize that, you know?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
My daughter, for example, she in general doesn't eat much or doesn't like to eat, you know, anything that's healthy for sure. We went out and she ordered a- a sandwich that had, like, vegetables in it and I was like, "Ah..." And I said, "Olivia," like, "Well done. I'm so proud of you." (laughs) You know? So you have to highlight that when people do-do these things-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
... um, and that's reinforcing.
- MRMel Robbins
A lot of people read that- A lot of people read that, like, condescending though. You know how, like, sometimes if somebody, like, is... I- I- I don't know if there's any advice or research on this, but I find that sometimes when people are really defensive or at least I've... that scenario with the kids when our son finally started eating things that were green-
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... instead of a chicken nugget and a french fry and I'm like, "Finally. That's great. A vegetable."
- GUGuest
When- when did that happen? Because I don't know when. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) Uh, double digits at least.
- GUGuest
Double digits.
- MRMel Robbins
Mi- mi- get, like, we were way into the double digits.
- GUGuest
No, I have one. One is eating fine, but the other one's not.
- MRMel Robbins
But so, like, there's probably before you let it out of your mouth and it's kind of calling out-
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... the, "Finally you're doing it," it's, "I'm really proud of you."
- GUGuest
The way that you do it with adults, um, for example, like, my husband has this new thing where he gets up. He doesn't wake me up. He gets the kids ready to school, he takes them to school, and I just get to sleep. Um, and how amazing is that, right? (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
How did you train him to do that?
- GUGuest
I don't know why he decided one day to- to start that, um, and he knows I- I don't like mornings and, you know, if I can sleep just, like, another hour without anyone waking me up, that's great. Um, but I make sure to say like, "Oh my God, thank you." You know? "That was so great." Um-... you know? And I, and I think that's, that's good for everyone.
- MRMel Robbins
Of course, of course.
- 30:49 – 32:56
How to use “progress tracking” to help someone be better with their money.
- MRMel Robbins
The third, uh, way you can motivate people to change that we've talked about is progress-
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... tracking. How do you use that if you're trying to help somebody get better with money?
- GUGuest
Um, okay. So, a lot of progress tracking, I mean, there's a lot of apps for all of these things, you know? There's a reason why lots of these apps, whether you're tracking your steps or you're tracking-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- GUGuest
... you know, your, your expenses, you know, there's apps for all of these things. Maybe you don't w- need to track everything. I don't know what it is that, the goal, but think about what the goal is and then you can track the specific elements that are related to that goal. Um-
- MRMel Robbins
How does the progress fuel into your motivation to keep going? 'Cause there must be a connection based on the research.
- GUGuest
Right. So, it bring, it's just the joy that we feel from progress, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- GUGuest
When we see that we're progressing, that is really what's causing us the joy. When we do well, that is also joyful, but it is doing better, right, that is even more joyful. Like imagine, like you're running a marathon and you're doing really well. Um, you do like 3:30, like three hours, 40 sec- 40 minutes, and then the next year you do three hours, 40 minutes, it's still very good, but imagine it's like, oh, now it's three hours and 28 minutes, right? It's so much better 'cause there's some kind of progress.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
We really like seeing ourself, and in fact if we kind of just, even if we're in the top of our game, if we are not progressing, we're just like, just maintaining-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
... that can actually be extremely demotivating. We always need some progress in our life and it makes sense that our brain has evolved to be like that, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
Because what that does, it causes us to try to, to progress, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
It causes us as an individual, but also as a species, um, to kind of go ahead and, and... 'Cause imagine, like i- think about your first entry level job. When you got it, you were probably really, really happy.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
Right? But of course after a while, you kind of are hoping for something else. You're hoping for that promotion, you wanna see some progress. Um, and I mean, it's just the way that we are wired up and there's a good
- 32:56 – 36:24
Dr. Tali Sharot’s favorite study on why positive feedback works.
- GUGuest
reason for it. One of my favorite experiments actually that, that show this is about hand washing.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
So we all know that hand washing is really important, right? And especially important, I mean, for the, to avoid the spread of disease and that's especially important in hospitals and, and in restaurants. So in a hospital in New York State, um, a camera was installed to see how often medical staffs actually wash their hands before and after entering a patient's room.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, man. Ew. (laughs)
- GUGuest
And they found-
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know if I wanna know this.
- GUGuest
They found that only one in ten, only 10%-
- MRMel Robbins
(gasps)
- GUGuest
... of the medical staff washed their hands before and after entering a patient's room. Now, this was before the pandemic.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
Hopefully (laughs) numbers are different now, but still, 10%. Okay. So, they put an electronic board, um, and, and, uh, th- to m- also to be clear, the medical staff knew that the camera was installed, right? So it's not like it was a nanny camera situation.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
They knew the nanny ca- the camera was installed and yet it was only 10% that actually washed their hands. And then they made one change. They put an electronic board that told the medical staff how well they were doing. Every time they washed their hands, immediately they got positive feedback saying, "Well done. Good shift." They could see it. The electronic board was above the patient's door, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- GUGuest
Um, and they saw the numbers going up of the current shift rate and the weekly rate of people washing their hands, and the compliance, so the number of people who w- wash their hands, went from 10% to 90%.
- MRMel Robbins
Holy cow.
- GUGuest
Which is huge and it stayed there for quite a while. I mean, it was such a big effect that they wanted to make sure that it was real so they replicated it in another division in the hospital, and here they fo- they found something very similar. It started at 30%, so one in three washed their hands. Put the electronic board with, you know, the feedback, the "Well done. Good shift." And it went up to 90% again. Um, and so why does that work? It works for all the reasons that we just discussed, which is the normal approach is just to tell the medical staff, "If you don't wash their hands, there will be bad things in the future, illness and disease, so you have to wash their hands," right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
And A, it's in the future. B, it's, it's something bad, so it doesn't cause me to act. So now they flipped it over, and now you're washing your hands to get a positive message, which is immediate and it's positive. Right?
- MRMel Robbins
And how about the fact that you're also seeing that other people are doing it? Does that impact your desire to move toward it and, and adopt this positive behavior?
- GUGuest
Right, absolutely. So there's two other really important things here. One is, it's social proof.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
Right? I'm seeing that 60%, 70%, 80% are doing it. I don't wanna be the one who doesn't, right? I wanna do the good stuff, which is what other people are doing. This is very helpful, I know that sometimes when you take, um, one of these like city bikes, there's actually, um, a little electronic board telling you how many people have taken these bikes-
- MRMel Robbins
Really?
- GUGuest
... today in the city.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
And that's kind of like, that makes you feel like, "Oh, A, I'm part of this big group."
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- GUGuest
And B, like a lot of people are taking bikes, you know, being green.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep. Yep. Yep.
- 36:24 – 40:33
The best parenting tip to get your kids to make a positive change in their life.
- MRMel Robbins
you're a parent. How the heck do we apply this to our life? Like how do I use this to maybe get the kids to do chores, to get everybody to help out? How do we apply this?
- GUGuest
So, in fact, I, I would say with kids is the easiest thing to do.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
Right? Um, so first of all, let's start with the very beginning. You don't want to control or give them a sense that they're controlled.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- GUGuest
Right? That you're telling them what to do.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
So for example, let's say you want them to eat vegetables. Instead of saying, "Here, eat your carrots," say, "Do you want carrots or would you like cucumbers?" Right? So there's a choice, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
Or even better, make your own salad.... so they're in control, right? Or, you know, a lot of times you may ask, "Do you want me to choose what your vegetable, or do you want to choose yourself?" So... (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Ooh, I l- that's sneaky. I like that one.
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
I like that one.
- GUGuest
Sometimes they prefer, you know, like especially, I mean, my kids are now, and they're not that old, they're eight and 10, but they, you know, dress themselves and that. But, like, when they were younger, sometimes I would choose their outfits. But I always asked, "Hey, do you want me to choose your outfit or do you want to choose it today?" And so sometimes they want me to choose. But telling me that they want me to choose is a choice. So now, I'm not taking the control out of them, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
They're giving it to me. It's a bit different.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
So they're still maintaining their agency. Um, this comes to play a lot, right? Instead of telling someone, let's say it's, like, an employee and tell, instead of saying, "Okay, this is what you're going to work on," right? "This is what you need to do," give people options, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
Same thing with clients. Even if you're a doctor, you could say, "Well, this is a treatment I think..." Or you could say, "Well, here are a few options."
- MRMel Robbins
Gotcha.
- GUGuest
Right? "Let's talk them through and see what's best." Right? So you're kind of... And you don't want to give too m- This is also interesting. You don't wanna, if you're a, whether you're a doctor giving b- options to people or, or whatever it is, you don't want to give too many options 'cause that can be overwhelming. There's, um, a famous study where people are given an option to choose between 60 different jams in a store.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
And some people are so overwhelmed, they just leave empty-handed, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right. Right.
- GUGuest
But two or three options, that's an easy way. Giving people a choice is an easy way to maintain their sense of control, agency, and their motivation. Like, for example, you know, if, um... So I bike to work and I don't always put a helmet on. Um, and so-
- MRMel Robbins
'Cause you're the exception?
- GUGuest
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
Come on, doc. What are you doing?
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- 40:33 – 44:26
The importance of emphasizing rewards vs. punishments.
- MRMel Robbins
really hearing over and over is that we are naturally wired to move towards the positive. We are naturally wired to move toward the immediate benefit. And so much of the way that we approach change with ourselves, and certainly the way we approach change in the people that we love or other people around us, is with negative reinforcement, with threats, with pressure, with fear. And so you're really highlighting over and over and over again to start thinking about helping people move toward what's good versus trying to shove them away from what's bad. And, you know, I wonder, we all have that person in our lives, whether it's ourselves or somebody that we love, um, that is so resistant to change. Is it human nature to be defensive or to not want to take accountability for the changes that are gonna make our life better?
- GUGuest
So again, there's a lot of individual differences, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
So you have, you actually have people who really like, you know, trying different things and so on. But th- it is difficult to change because what we're doing now, the status quo, that's the easiest thing, right? It's easy to just-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- GUGuest
... go ahead and continue doing what you're doing. Making a change means effort. And there's all this uncertainty. If I continue doing what I'm doing, at least I know what the outcome is, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
If I try something new, I don't know what the outcome is. It's uncertain. People don't like uncertainty. It's very aversive. But it turns out, you know, 'cause e- people, most people don't like to be like, "I, I don't know what's gonna happen." We like to predict. And in fact, that's what our brain is trying all the, doing all the time. We're predicting the next thing. We're predicting, you know, you're predicting my next word. You're not even noticing it. It's predicting what's going on. So that's what we're trying to do, and we don't like it when we don't know what's gonna happen. And change means uncertainty. But it turns out that, on average, all else being equal, change actually tends to do us good. So there's a great study by, uh, the economist Steven Levitt where he had people go online and write something that they wanted to change. And it could be something small like just, eh, change your hair, or it could be big like entering or exiting a relationship-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
... entering or exiting a job. Um, so they wrote down what they wanted to change, and then he asked him to flip a virtual coin. If the coin, um, hit heads, go ahead make a change. And if it was on tails, then stick with the status quo. And then he came back to them two weeks later and six months later. First of all, he found that-... they were more likely to make a change if they got heads, so 25% more likely.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, hold on. Which one was heads? I've already forgotten. Okay.
- GUGuest
Heads is make a change.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
But basically, whatever the- the- the coin showed-
- MRMel Robbins
Really?
- GUGuest
... it actually had an effect. 25%, I mean, it's- it's not huge-huge, but it's something, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- GUGuest
Which- which sounds crazy, right? (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
It does sound cra- 'cause I would have predicted the opposite. I would have predicted that if the coin flip was don't change, people would be like, "Don't tell me what to do."
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
"I'm gonna go change. You watch me." (laughs) You know what I'm saying? Okay, so if you got-
- GUGuest
So-
- MRMel Robbins
... the coin toss, you're more likely-
- GUGuest
You're more likely-
- MRMel Robbins
... to make a change.
- GUGuest
... to change. Um, which is, actually, it's a really interesting question why, that we can talk about that, why- why did that even work? Uh, which it wasn't the point of the study, but it's an interesting question.
- MRMel Robbins
I'd like to know, why does that work?
- GUGuest
Yeah, um, okay, so b- it's, like, giving someone else the responsibility, or it's, like, well, I th- thought about it so much, and now it's as if it's, like, you know, the- the someone has told me, right? It's fate, you know? I have to go with it.
- MRMel Robbins
It's a sign.
- GUGuest
And it's, like, beyond, it's beyond me, something like that. But okay, so 25% more were likely to change, but importantly, when he came back two weeks and six months later, what he found was that, on average, and there's, like, a lot of people in this- this study, thousands and thousands of people. On average, those people that made a change were happier, right? Of course, some people weren't, but on
- 44:26 – 46:30
This is how change can enhance your well-being and increase happiness.
- GUGuest
average, a change was related to an enhancement in your wellbeing. And I think there's at least two reasons why this is. One is if you're already thinking about a change, there's a reason.
- MRMel Robbins
What's the reason?
- GUGuest
That something's- needs changing.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
Right? Like, if you're thinking about changing a job, or you're thinking about moving house, you know, there's probably a reason that you're thinking about it, which is that there's something that's not great that could be better.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
And so that's one reason why a change ends up being good because it probably is time for a change. Um, to be clear, this doesn't mean that, you know, it's recommended to always change if you're, you know, you know, leave your relationship. It doesn't even say what the change is. Perhaps you were thinking about a change i- regarding your relationship. It doesn't say, "Break up." It m- it says, "A change is needed," so maybe you have to go to therapy as a change. Maybe it's, like, change your routines, right? But a change is needed. And the second reason I think why a change, on average, ended up being a good thing is because a change means more variety in your life.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- GUGuest
It puts you in a new state, a state of learning. If you make a change, you're now in some kind of different situation, in a different environment. You need to learn something. Maybe you're moving jobs, so you need to learn something. And people, although they don't necessarily predict it, they really enjoy learning. When we are in a sta- this is why people li- listen to your podcast. This is w- why podcasts-
- MRMel Robbins
That's true. That's true.
- GUGuest
... are so, you know, why they're so popular-
- MRMel Robbins
That's why you're here.
- GUGuest
... because people love learning, and when they- they learn, it makes them really happy. There's a simple study conducted by two neuroscientists, Rutledge is, uh, Rutledge and Blaine, and what they found is that they had people, uh, do a task, and if they did well, they got money. And they liked getting money. They were happy when they got money, but it turned out that they were even happier when they learned something about the task. So learning-
- MRMel Robbins
Ah.
- GUGuest
... really brings you joy, and ch- learning is basically a change, right?
- MRMel Robbins
That's true. That's true.
- GUGuest
And so I think a change brings, you know, diversity to your life, variety, puts you in a- in a state of learning.
- MRMel Robbins
So I wanna, um,
- 46:30 – 49:23
How to approach someone you love about a touchy subject.
- MRMel Robbins
ask for your advice, based on the research, for how somebody might approach a situation, because I'm sure as they're listening to you, they're thinking, "I feel very inspired. I feel very hopeful, and I really want to have a conversation with a person in my life that I do wanna support in changing." Is there a certain way to approach a conversation or specific things to say or not say to somebody when you want to talk to them about, like, a touchy subject?
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, finding a new job, taking better care of yourself. How would you approach that to set the dynamic up for success with another adult?
- GUGuest
Yeah. Um, okay. So I think there's a few things that you kind of wanna avoid that we talked about, right? Not seeming like you are giving them a prescription, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- GUGuest
But what- rather you- what you're doing is kind of exploring different options. Um, and also, I think the focus has to be on what they want.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- GUGuest
Not what you think they should want, 'cause maybe what they want is different from what you want for yourself, or what you want for them, or what you think they should want for- for themselves. Um...
- MRMel Robbins
And what you've taught us that we will never get away from is that, at the end of the day, you want control over yourself, and the person that you love wants to feel like they're in control of their lives.
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so this is a conversation to walk into that really is wi- eyes wide open that you may be worried or stressed or care about this issue deeply, but what really matters is what this person wants.
- GUGuest
Right. And what I found interesting is that when you ask people about how they're feeling about things, you just ask them-
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
... you get really a lot of information, right? (laughs) That's when they start kind of talking. So I think maybe that's a good starting point, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
Something like, "So how are you feeling about..." wha- what is you wanted to talk about, like the work. "How are you feeling about your job? Do you like it?" Right? I mean, that is very helpful. I've seen it with, uh, my team. So we have a discussion at least once a year, if not more, where I'm just asking them, "Okay, tell me, how are you doing?" Right? Um, and that simple question, which I don't think we ask enough, (laughs) um, you get so much information, and from that point, you can really kind of- you really wanna focus on the other person about what is it that they do that they like and what is it that they wanna change, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
Um, where are they trying to go?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm. That's true, because if somebody doesn't want to, they're not going to.
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And it doesn't matter how much you want it. And so getting them to start to talk about how they feel about their health, or their financial situation, or where their career's going, and what they would actually want-That's how you start to tap into some of the fundamental things you've been talking about.
- 49:23 – 51:18
How to help someone who is extremely resistant to change.
- MRMel Robbins
What do you do, though, if you have somebody, um, that's just, like, extremely resistant to change? Is there anything that you would recommend based on the research, that you'd try with somebody who just is- whether it's scared, anxiety, digging their heels in, stubbornness, is there an approach that's more, uh, effective than another one?
- GUGuest
So I think often people who are very resistant to any kind of change is because they have negative expectations, um, of how they will feel or what the outcome will be if they change, or they think, you know, "It's not possible. I'll try and I'll fail." Often, it's about our expectations.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- GUGuest
Um, so I think it's- it's helpful to think about what is it, like, how can I get to this positive place, right? If it's really about people having negative expectations of either what they could do or, like, once they get there, what would be the... You know, think about, okay, maybe we can get there by making a specific plan, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
So I think changing these expectations, which in fact means making people more optimistic about, um, something, um, is- is motivation for- for action and for change.
- MRMel Robbins
I also think, I know- I feel like I know a bunch of couples that the dynamic is really more about the control. It's not about the health.
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
It's not about, like, the issue at all of finding a new job. It's that the second that one partner says, "I would really like you to take better care of yourself," the other person feels like they're being controlled, and as long as they don't change, they're now in control of their own life, and their spouse can't tell them what to do.
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so I think, uh, oftentimes, you get in these standoffs with people where you're arguing about health or you're arguing about a job or you're arguing about something else, and it's really that this person doesn't wanna be controlled by you. So we've focused a lot on other people,
- 51:18 – 54:06
The science-backed ways to motivate yourself to change for good.
- MRMel Robbins
but what are the best ways to motivate yourself to change?
- GUGuest
Okay. So first of all, I think that we have a lot of focus and we focus a lot about the things that are not good enough, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- GUGuest
Um, we- we need to change. We need to become better. I suggest as a first step, maybe let's take some time to think about the great things that we have done, a lot of like, you know, very difficult things, and every one of us has done really difficult things and obstacles, and a lot of things that we do are- are quite hard, and they're- we all have, like, great skills. Um, and let's focus on that for a while 'cause I know even, you know, and it's true for everyone, but even if you look at this, like, uber successful people who've done great things, I mean, they also focus on, "Ugh, this could be better." Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
Um, and the reason that's helpful is because that gives you confidence and strength when you say, "Look, I've done this and this," and you say it to yourself, not to anyone else.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
Right? "I've done this and this and this," that gives you strength to kind of say, "Okay, maybe I have what it takes-"
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
"... to do whatever the next change, um, is that I wanna do." Right? And then really motivation, a lot of the- the motivation comes from the belief that you can do that. Right? N- not having motivation, it could be a l- it could be a few things, but a lot of times it's also like, "I don't... It's not gonna work." Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
It's a pessimism. Right? Um, and so to have motivation, we need to think through, what are the steps? What i- what is the plan? So, you know, maybe I wanna write a book. Well, that's quite huge, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. (laughs)
- GUGuest
Um, and that, you know, how do I get motivation? Well, then maybe think about the specific steps that I need to do, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- GUGuest
Write the, um, outline first, right? Let's do, and then 10- 10 pages a time. So all of these things, and just focus on those. Um, and then start to think about, "What is it that I've already done in my past life that suggests that I can do this?" And it could be things that are related, you know? So if we're thinking about writing a book, well, there's- maybe you wrote, like, articles. Or it could be things that are unrelated. You're like, "Well, I gave birth. That was quite hard." (laughs) You know?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- GUGuest
Or, you know, "I raised kids. That was quite hard." So there's a lot of things that we've done in our life that are hard and we overcome them, and, you know, that's good to have in our b- in the back of our minds.
- MRMel Robbins
So I love that because you're right. A lot of the change comes from a make wrong and from a should.
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And if you, step one, do an assessment and say, "Let me just give myself a little bit of credit here."
- GUGuest
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
"I've done a lot of hard things in my life, whether it's related to this or not, and I've also shown up in major ways for other people. All of that is evidence that I'm pretty amazing and that I can apply that to this new thing that I wanna do." So if you can wrap your mind by using past experience around the belief that it is possible for you to show up, it is possible for you to chip away at this, what is
- 54:06 – 57:38
One of the most important things to keep you moving forward.
- MRMel Robbins
the second kind of most important thing to add in to keep you moving forward?
- GUGuest
You know what's very helpful is have other people who believe in you, right? It's nice to know that, like, other people have trust in you 'cause it changes your confidence in yourself as well.
- MRMel Robbins
Of course.
- GUGuest
Um...
- MRMel Robbins
But I wanna just make sure that the person listening who is somewhere in the world right now and does not have that support, because I get a ton of, uh, questions from people that are listeners to this podcast, that one of the biggest challenges is, "I feel like I wanna make all these changes and I'm not getting the support from my family, and I'm getting kind of the side glance from my friends about starting this new real estate business-"
- GUGuest
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... or my family's busy drinking while I'm, you know, trying not to." And so if you don't have that support and you've done step one and you've really looked for your own life- at your own life for evidence that you can do this, what else can you focus on? 'Cause it's really discouraging when you're trying to change and you don't feel like the- the folks around you are supporting you.
- GUGuest
Yeah, and I'll tell you what else you can do. But before that, I suggest you go and find it, and I think it's possible. So for example, if you're wanted t- you wanna start real estate. Let's say you're, you know, a woman, you want to start your own real estate company. Well, there are kind of groups that you can find probably on social media. So I think even if you- you're saying, "Well, in my family, I'm not getting support,"You could find that support elsewhere. Just try at least to look for it, um, because I think it's possible.
- MRMel Robbins
I am so glad you said this, because here is what I learned too late. I have looked to my family to support me through experiences that they do not understand. Chris is wonderfully supportive. He doesn't have a clue what I deal with day-to-day in my business, 'cause he doesn't run a business like this, and neither do my kids. And so the- I love that you said that, because also looking at people who have never been where you're going or don't understand where you are means you will feel misunderstood and not supported. And the best thing that you could do is seek out the people that are doing what you're doing or who you think are competing with you, because they're not. They're the people on the planet that actually understand what you're up against. So thank you for reminding us that there's support all around us if we're willing to look for it and go find it. Well, Dr. Tolly Sherritt, thank you so much for being here. And I also wanted to thank you for spending time with us today. And in case nobody tells you, I wanted to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to not only create a better life, but to take Dr. Sherritt's words to heart and start experimenting, start trying new things, stop pressuring the people in your (laughs) life to change 'cause they don't wanna hear it from you, and focus on changing yourself and your own life for the better. All righty, I'll talk to you in a few days. And for you on YouTube, first of all, I just wanna say thanks for hanging out with me. Thank you for taking time to watch something that will help you improve your life. And I also wanna thank you in advance for taking a second and hitting the subscribe button. Here's what I know you're thinking, "What do I do now, Mel?" Well, I'll tell you what you're gonna wanna do. You're gonna go right here. I've got a whole new video for you. It is 5 Ways to Improve Your Subconscious Mind and Be Happier in 2024. You're gonna love this. It is amazing insight from Stanford's Dr. Paul Conti. Check it out.
Episode duration: 57:38
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