12 Minutes to a Better Brain: Neuroscientist Reveals the #1 Habit for Clarity & Focus

1. 0:00 – 3:17

   Meet the Guest

   1. MRMel Robbins0:00

      You said attention is something that you hold.

   2. AJDr. Amishi Jha0:04

      Your attention is an extremely powerful capacity that you hold, but it's incredibly fragile. The very hopeful news, and we'll talk about how to do this, is that it is trainable.

   3. MRMel Robbins0:17

      Hey, it's Mel. Today on The Mel Robbins Podcast, you're gonna learn how to build a better brain in just 12 minutes a day. This is one habit for clarity and focus that's researched back from neuroscientist Dr. Amishi Jha.

   4. AJDr. Amishi Jha0:30

      Attention is an incredibly powerful brain system, that's the first thing. We already know that. It is, in some sense, the boss of the brain. Wherever attention goes, the rest of the brain's computational functions are aligned with whatever it is that you pay attention to. That's why it's so powerful. The metaphor I like to use is that it's like a flashlight. Wherever it is that that flashlight is directed toward, you get crisper, clearer information.

   5. MRMel Robbins0:55

      What do you think the most important thing to do is?

   6. AJDr. Amishi Jha0:59

      The biggest call to action, and it's a very simple one, is pay attention to your attention. Focusing, noticing, refocusing, repeat. That's the push-up for the mind.

   7. MRMel Robbins1:12

      What happens if you do this 12 minutes a day, four days a week for four weeks?

   8. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:17

      Really good news, you're gonna get better than where you started. The best time to do it is that, when you're gonna do it.

   9. MRMel Robbins1:22

      Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast. Dr. Amishi Jha, thank you, thank you, thank you for hopping on a plane and being here with us in our Boston studios. Welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.

   10. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:40

       Thank you. It's so great to be here.

   11. MRMel Robbins1:42

       I am so excited because I gotta be honest with you. Is it common when people interview you for them to feel like (laughs) they are unfocused? You know, as I was preparing for this, I was like, "Wait a minute, why am I suddenly feeling all scattered before Dr. Amishi walks in here?"

   12. AJDr. Amishi Jha2:00

       (laughs)

   13. MRMel Robbins2:00

       Is that like a thing that happens with people?

   14. AJDr. Amishi Jha2:03

       I certainly don't want it to feel like some kind of, like, test of your attentional capabilities at all. Because frankly, all the work that I do comes from my own journey with attention.

   15. MRMel Robbins2:12

       Mm.

   16. AJDr. Amishi Jha2:12

       It doesn't matter how much expertise I have, it doesn't matter how much I study this, the notion of having a crisis of attention or feeling scattered every now and then is part of the human experience. So, please don't feel that. (laughs)

   17. MRMel Robbins2:23

       Thank you for saying that, 'cause I think when you, when you think about attention and focus and training your mind to be a peak mind, you all of a sudden sit up and lean in and you're like, "Okay, we got stuff to do." And so there was something very, I think, optimistic and accessible to this idea that you are gonna have a scattered mind at times.

   18. AJDr. Amishi Jha2:47

       Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

   19. MRMel Robbins2:48

       And I take it you're gonna teach us how to recognize that and pull your attention back to what's important when you do.

   20. AJDr. Amishi Jha2:55

       Yeah, with no promise that you're gonna necessarily be less scattered. But through the journey of what we'll talk about, hopefully come to an understanding that as we become more intimately familiar and friendlier with our own mind, we treat that scatter differently.

   21. MRMel Robbins3:11

       Mm. Intimately familiar and friendlier with our own mind. That is so cool. You know

2. 3:17 – 8:56

   The Neuroscience of Attention and Focus

   1. MRMel Robbins3:17

      what I'd love to have you do, because your research is so interesting, and the results are mind-blowing. I would love to have you speak directly to the person who's with us right now, they're listening or they're watching us right now, and they have not a lot of time, but they have made the time to be here to learn from you. And I would love to have you share a little bit about what might be different about their life if they take to heart everything you're about to teach us today and they apply it.

   2. AJDr. Amishi Jha3:51

      Absolutely. So, the one thing I will say is that your attention is an extremely powerful capacity that you hold, but it's incredibly fragile. It's going to fall apart every now and then. It's going to be scattered. The very hopeful news, and we'll talk about how to do this, is that it is trainable. We can train our attention to be stronger and function better. And this isn't just some abstract thing that we wanna be able to do. We do this because we wanna not only have a peak mind, but we wanna have a fulfilling life. We wanna befriend our own mind for the service of enjoying our life and making sure that what we do is meaningful to us. So, the path there is what we'll be talking about during our time together.

   3. MRMel Robbins4:36

      There was something that you just said that really caught my attention. I didn't even mean to make a pun, but it just fell out of my mouth. You said attention is something that you hold. And hear what was interesting about that. My experience of the concept or the term attention is that it's something that kinda comes and goes. I have it, I don't have it, it's all over the place, I'm trying to grab it. When you said attention is something that you hold, almost like I'm holding your book, Peak Mind, it made me look at it differently.

   4. AJDr. Amishi Jha5:12

      Hmm.

   5. MRMel Robbins5:13

      Because the word hold, attention is something that you hold, it means it is in your power at any time to recognize that you're the one that holds it, you're the one that can learn how to direct it, that it is always there for you to be able to use to your advantage. And I've never thought about it that way, because I think as somebody that's really struggled with directing my attention, with being very scattered all the time, easily distracted, which I think is probably most people these days, I've always felt almost powerless around it, and I've made myself wrong-

   6. AJDr. Amishi Jha5:48

      Mm.

   7. MRMel Robbins5:48

      ... in many instances about my inability to focus on something or my inability to stay organized or my inability to remember things. And thinking about it differently, like, no, no, no, no, attention is something that you hold.

   8. AJDr. Amishi Jha6:02

      Yeah.

   9. MRMel Robbins6:02

      The power is in your hands, and today you're gonna help us tap into it.I really love that.

   10. AJDr. Amishi Jha6:07

       Can I say something about that?

   11. MRMel Robbins6:08

       Please.

   12. AJDr. Amishi Jha6:09

       So one of the things that I wanna say, just at the outset, is that this notion of holding our attention can give us that sense of agency, which is really, really powerful. But I would like you to just consider expanding what it means to hold.

   13. MRMel Robbins6:22

       Mm.

   14. AJDr. Amishi Jha6:22

       Kind of like the way we think about maybe holding our child.

   15. MRMel Robbins6:25

       Mm.

   16. AJDr. Amishi Jha6:25

       That there's a holding that is an aspect of, you know, you're gonna support and control in some ways, just like we would when we parent. But there's also just a letting it be there and observing it. And w- as we talk through the various types of attention, we'll realize that holding can mean all of those things. It can mean directing it, it can mean acknowledging it, it can mean checking in with it without doing anything differently. And as we expand the repertoire of how we hold our attention-

   17. MRMel Robbins6:51

       Mm.

   18. AJDr. Amishi Jha6:51

       ... we can develop that sense of friendliness and self-supportive orientation toward our own mind.

   19. MRMel Robbins6:56

       Oh, I love that, 'cause I'm realizing as you said that, "Just letting it be." I'm like, "But I'm gripping the wheel, Dr. Amishi." (laughs) What is attention?

   20. AJDr. Amishi Jha7:04

       Yeah. Yeah.

   21. MRMel Robbins7:04

       Like, not, not like the buzzword, but, you know, y- this is what you research as a neuroscientist in your life. What exactly is attention in your brain?

   22. AJDr. Amishi Jha7:14

       Right. So attention is an incredibly powerful brain system. That's the first thing. We already know that.

   23. MRMel Robbins7:19

       It's a brain system.

   24. AJDr. Amishi Jha7:20

       It is. And it doesn't actually fully develop till we're about 25 years old.

   25. MRMel Robbins7:24

       Wait, what?

   26. AJDr. Amishi Jha7:25

       Yes. (laughs) And that age, 25, is because attention relies on a very important part of the brain that's quite slow to develop, the prefrontal cortex.

   27. MRMel Robbins7:34

       Okay.

   28. AJDr. Amishi Jha7:35

       So we need our attention for everything that we do and things like thinking, things like feeling, things like connecting with other people, all of those require our attention.

   29. MRMel Robbins7:48

       Mm.

   30. AJDr. Amishi Jha7:48

       Before we talk about in more detail what attention is and all of the different ways that it functions, I think it might be useful to mention something about why we even have an attention system.
3. 8:56 – 11:22

   The Three Types of Attention That Run Your Life

   1. AJDr. Amishi Jha8:56

      some information over other information and use that to benefit our understanding of what's happening in our environment, internal and external.

   2. MRMel Robbins9:04

      So you could think about your attention system-

   3. AJDr. Amishi Jha9:08

      Yeah.

   4. MRMel Robbins9:08

      ... as this super computer function that is sorting through information and prioritizing it and helping us make sense of it?

   5. AJDr. Amishi Jha9:18

      Yes, eh, but it prioritizes it in multiple ways. In fact, attention isn't one thing.

   6. MRMel Robbins9:22

      Yep.

   7. AJDr. Amishi Jha9:23

      It's actually three things. It's a trio of functions that, that are probably gonna be important to think about, because it helps us understand that to do this prioritizing, we need to orient to our experience in multiple ways.

   8. MRMel Robbins9:35

      So what is happening in your brain when you're using this attention system?

   9. AJDr. Amishi Jha9:41

      Yeah. So it is biasing every single thing that the brain does. It is, in some sense, the boss of the brain.

   10. MRMel Robbins9:50

       Really?

   11. AJDr. Amishi Jha9:51

       Wherever attention goes, the rest of the brain's computational functions are aligned with whatever it is that you pay attention to. That's why it's so powerful, because when you're paying attention to the right things, meaning those that serve you and align with what you're trying to do, great. But when you are not, everything is basically going to go in the wrong direction.

   12. MRMel Robbins10:10

       Now here's a crazy question, because when I hear the word attention, I think eyeballs and ears. Is there other parts of the body... This is gonna sound so... I'm, I'm, I'm, like, feeling self-conscious.

   13. AJDr. Amishi Jha10:22

       Yeah.

   14. MRMel Robbins10:22

       I'm, I'm paying attention to the fact that I'm feeling self-conscious-

   15. AJDr. Amishi Jha10:25

       (laughs)

   16. MRMel Robbins10:25

       ... about my question. But are there other parts of the body that are also ways that you pay attention?

   17. AJDr. Amishi Jha10:34

       Absolutely. Every sensory system connects with attention.

   18. MRMel Robbins10:38

       Huh?

   19. AJDr. Amishi Jha10:39

       And it's not just about our perceptual ability or our sensory experience. Even the internal domain of our entire minds is accessible through attention. So when we talk through the various types of attention, I think that'll become, uh, very, very clear. But you honed in on the right thing, which is that attention is tied to perception. And what it does and one way it functions is by turning up the volume on what you hear, making more clear what you see.

   20. MRMel Robbins11:09

       Mm.

   21. AJDr. Amishi Jha11:09

       If it has to do with our sensory experience, it's like amplifying the tactile input that we get. It is a type of amplifier. And, uh, we can use various metaphors to describe what the brain does when we, when we talk about this. Um, this

4. 11:22 – 19:06

   #1: Selective Attention

   1. AJDr. Amishi Jha11:22

      particular way of paying attention, that's about, um, prioritizing inputs-

   2. MRMel Robbins11:27

      Yeah.

   3. AJDr. Amishi Jha11:27

      ... selecting information and prioritizing that. The metaphor I like to use is that it's like a flashlight.

   4. MRMel Robbins11:33

      Okay.

   5. AJDr. Amishi Jha11:34

      So if you were in a darkened room-

   6. MRMel Robbins11:36

      Mm-hmm.

   7. AJDr. Amishi Jha11:37

      ... flashlight's a very handy tool. Why?

   8. MRMel Robbins11:38

      Mm-hmm.

   9. AJDr. Amishi Jha11:39

      Because wherever it is that that flashlight is directed toward, you get crisper, clearer information. And that notion of advantaging perception through attention, very real. We see that when we look at brain imaging studies, we look, when we look at brain wave recordings. Right now, for example, as I look at you-

   10. MRMel Robbins11:56

       Yeah.

   11. AJDr. Amishi Jha11:57

       ... the parts of my brain that are doing face processing are more active, because I'm getting the visual input from you. And everything ar- else around your face is a little dulled out. I'm not getting strong input from that.

   12. MRMel Robbins12:07

       Well, that's true, because, and, and even if you're not watching this-... is you're listening to Dr. Amishi. Your flashlight, so to speak, is dialing up and paying attention to listening to her voice. And you may not be paying attention or noticing as much other sounds outside, or even kind of the room that you're in, because you are more focused on the words that you're listening to. Is that kind of how this works?

   13. AJDr. Amishi Jha12:38

       Absolutely, absolutely. Right. So the au- auditory input is gonna be increased.

   14. MRMel Robbins12:42

       Yeah.

   15. AJDr. Amishi Jha12:43

       And then everything else that follows from that. So because you're honing in on certain words, your comprehension of those words is gonna be better. The thoughts that you have based on those words is gonna be more fine-grained. The memories that might get elicited by those words, everything else follows from the fact that you're getting this better input from what it is that you're paying attention to.

   16. MRMel Robbins13:03

       That's so helpful because I, you know, just as a normal person, when you hear the word attention, I always have just thought about the act of looking at something, paying attention, like just sitting still. And it didn't even dawn on me that there is a much larger system and mechanism that has massive issues to deal with to keep you alive, and to be crunching the data to determine everything that's happening at any given time. And kind of starting from that point is very helpful, because it's so easy to get down on yourself if you can't pay attention, or if you're scatterbrained. And if you start with this bigger understanding, like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, your attention system has big-ass jobs. So let's not just keep trashing yourself right now, and let's hold it a little more gently, and let's learn how to work with it." You know, Dr. Amishi, in Peak Mind and all your research, you break attention into three systems. What are they?

   17. AJDr. Amishi Jha14:08

       The flashlight, which is selective attention. The floodlight, the alerting system. And the juggler, which is executive functioning.

   18. MRMel Robbins14:17

       Okay.

   19. AJDr. Amishi Jha14:17

       This trio of functions. The first one we already talked about, and we, this flashlight metaphor describes it. We might sometimes, we might call that focus.

   20. MRMel Robbins14:25

       Okay.

   21. AJDr. Amishi Jha14:25

       When we say we focus, we're really talking about the flashlight, which is we hone in, we're narrow, we're restricted. We're, we have this sense of agency. We can direct the flashlight.

   22. MRMel Robbins14:34

       Okay.

   23. AJDr. Amishi Jha14:34

       Wherever it is that that flashlight is pointing, we get prioritized information from there. Everything else is dulled out. The important thing to think about with that is that it is not only important for the external environment, so that we're, you know, like you said, we think about our eyes as, as attending. Um, but we can use that same resource for the internal environment.

   24. MRMel Robbins14:55

       What do you mean?

   25. AJDr. Amishi Jha14:55

       So, yeah. So if I ask you right now to think about what you had for dinner last night. You don't have to tell me, but can you, can you think of it?

   26. MRMel Robbins15:06

       Yes.

   27. AJDr. Amishi Jha15:06

       Okay. Were you thinking about it before I asked you about it?

   28. MRMel Robbins15:08

       No.

   29. AJDr. Amishi Jha15:09

       Right. So what happened in that moment? Could you, could you-

   30. MRMel Robbins15:11

       I don't know. What happened? (laughs)
5. 19:06 – 21:19

   #2: Broad Attention

   1. AJDr. Amishi Jha19:06

      because it's not helping you.

   2. MRMel Robbins19:07

      Like you got one flashlight, baby.

   3. AJDr. Amishi Jha19:08

      You got one flashlight. So-

   4. MRMel Robbins19:09

      So the first subsystem is the selective attention, and that's-

   5. AJDr. Amishi Jha19:13

      Yes.

   6. MRMel Robbins19:13

      ... the flashlight.

   7. AJDr. Amishi Jha19:14

      Yeah.

   8. MRMel Robbins19:14

      What's the second one?

   9. AJDr. Amishi Jha19:15

      The second one is almost the exact opposite of the flashlight. It's not narrow and restrictive. It's broad and receptive. So the way that I would describe this is, I mean, an experience would be if you're wa- if you're driving a car, let's say we're walking, and all of a sudden you're in the middle of a school zone. You know, you see flashing lights. What happens in that moment? You might even say to yourself, "Pay attention," but that's not this narrow, restricted type of attention. It's broad and receptive. You don't know if you're having a strange traffic pattern or you gotta watch out for children or vehicles or whatever it is. You're paying attention, but what you're prioritizing is actually everything happening right now.

   10. MRMel Robbins19:52

       And that's what happens when you walk into a room, right? Like if you've ever walked into like a, a networking meeting or a school cafeteria, you kind of see everything, right?

   11. AJDr. Amishi Jha20:01

       Right. I mean, if you're going into that room with the idea that you gotta meet one person and you're looking for them, then you're gonna use that flashlight.

   12. MRMel Robbins20:07

       Right.

   13. AJDr. Amishi Jha20:07

       But if you're going in kind of warm and open to what's gonna happen, you're gonna be using this second system, which the metaphor I use for this is that it's like a floodlight.

   14. MRMel Robbins20:15

       Okay.

   15. AJDr. Amishi Jha20:16

       It's broad and diffused, and it's formally called the brain's alerting system because it is about being alert and receptive. And the important thing to think about with that is just like the flashlight, it can be for the external environment or the internal environment. So we can be broad and receptive if we're around people and we just wanna take in the social scene. But from the internal point of view, it'd be something like a brainstorming session. All options are on the table. What's arising right now?

   16. MRMel Robbins20:44

       Got it.

   17. AJDr. Amishi Jha20:44

       Be present to everything here right now. And so whereas the flashlight privileges content, you know, the thing you're trying to hone in on-

   18. MRMel Robbins20:51

       Uh-huh.

   19. AJDr. Amishi Jha20:53

       ... the f- uh, floodlight privileges the moment right now.

   20. MRMel Robbins20:56

       Okay.

   21. AJDr. Amishi Jha20:57

       And if you... It makes sense because you can't actually be alert, you can't save up being alert for the past or for the future. It's right now. So that is what we're trying to do when we're talking about that. And the, these systems, by the way, I'm just describing them with metaphors, but we know that they have very specific brain networks that support them.

   22. MRMel Robbins21:15

       Huh.

   23. AJDr. Amishi Jha21:16

       And these brain networks are actually antagonistic toward each other.

6. 21:19 – 32:11

   #3: Executive Function

   1. AJDr. Amishi Jha21:19

      They fight each other. So you can't be both narrow and restrictive and broad and receptive at the same time. They're actually battling each other in the brain.

   2. MRMel Robbins21:27

      And what's the third system?

   3. AJDr. Amishi Jha21:29

      Yes. So the third system is, the metaphor I'll use 'cause I think that's a good way to anchor around it, is that it's like a juggler.

   4. MRMel Robbins21:35

      Okay.

   5. AJDr. Amishi Jha21:35

      And this is something we call executive functions. So that term executive is very much like the executive of any enterprise, right?

   6. MRMel Robbins21:42

      Okay.

   7. AJDr. Amishi Jha21:42

      The executive's job is to ensure, and that's what the system does, that our goals and our actions align. It's monitoring and, uh, and checking in on what's going on. So the juggler's like you got all the balls in the air, you got multiple things you're trying to do, but you're overseeing the coordination of that so that none of the balls drop.

   8. MRMel Robbins22:02

      So can you give me an example of like daily life?

   9. AJDr. Amishi Jha22:05

      All the ti- Everything we do pretty much. Like even just, uh, you know, making my way here, right? Planning ahead to what I have to do to get myself to the airport or, you know, I've got, you know, I've got a, a plan to make sure I've got... The goal is to get to the airport on time, all the things that need to happen in whatever order, to sequence and manage. Um, and it ends up that if you, um, if the system is not working great, um, you're not gonna be having the right goal. You either forget the goal or your, or your behavior is not aligned with the goal. Um, and when that happens, the system has to kick in to fix things. So either update the goal, like all of a sudden if I'm planning on going to the airport and I realize, I learn through a text message, "You have six hours, your flight's delayed," (laughs) it would be a bad goal to continue on that path to try to get there within an hour. So I've gotta update the goal. No longer have the goal of getting there. But if I, all of a sudden instead of, uh, you know, that kind of a situation decide, "You know what? I think I'm gonna check a few more emails." Well, now my actions aren't aligned with my goals, so I've gotta fix my action. No, no, no. Put the phone down, get yourself packed, and get there. So this system is so good and so important for us being able to make sure that moment by moment in our lives that we are aware of the goal, we're checking in with what we're doing, and we're constantly negotiating between those two. Is this the right thing or is... my action have to be, uh, corrected? And, and when there, when we are successful, everything feels fluid. You know, the balls are up in the air and everything's great. And when it's not functioning well, we feel that too. (laughs) Like, I failed at me- meeting this goal or ensuring that my actions align with that goal.

   10. MRMel Robbins23:40

       It's interesting that you said that the attention system doesn't fully develop until 25.

   11. AJDr. Amishi Jha23:45

       Yeah.

   12. MRMel Robbins23:46

       And so is it really common, especially for somebody that is younger or a young adult or a child, to have a delayed development in the attention system because it takes time for these things to develop?

   13. AJDr. Amishi Jha24:01

       Absolutely. And oftentimes what might... Like, somebody may be characterized as having attentional problems, but then by early adulthood, they're totally fine.

   14. MRMel Robbins24:09

       Yeah.

   15. AJDr. Amishi Jha24:10

       Because in some sense, whatever that path was, whatever that timeframe was-... full maturation happened and then they were fine.

   16. MRMel Robbins24:16

       Yes.

   17. AJDr. Amishi Jha24:16

       Um, but the other thing to keep in mind about this aging-related aspect is not only does it slow to develop, but it's also fast to decline. (laughs) So-

   18. MRMel Robbins24:26

       What do you mean?

   19. AJDr. Amishi Jha24:26

       (laughs) So in general, all three of these systems of attention, flashlight, floodlight, juggler, this kind of category of attention, doesn't fully develop till we're 25. Then we've got a good, solid 10-year run, 25 to 35, where our attention, all three systems are functioning quite well.

   20. MRMel Robbins24:42

       Okay. Peak, peak attention.

   21. AJDr. Amishi Jha24:43

       But if you're older than 35, then we're on sort of a normal, healthy aging downward slog of the functioning-

   22. MRMel Robbins24:49

       Why at 35?

   23. AJDr. Amishi Jha24:50

       ... of our attention.

   24. MRMel Robbins24:50

       That sucks. Like, we got a lot of life to live, Dr. Amishi.

   25. AJDr. Amishi Jha24:53

       (laughs) .

   26. MRMel Robbins24:53

       Why is it declining at 35?

   27. AJDr. Amishi Jha24:54

       That's just the nature of the brain. So partly, we think this is because then the kind of habits people start engaging in.

   28. MRMel Robbins25:00

       Mm.

   29. AJDr. Amishi Jha25:00

       Um, and this is actually the kind of point of everything that I've been up to in my lab, which is that if we know our attention is vulnerable, how can we train it? What are the best ways that we can spend a little bit of time every day so that we can keep our attention in peak shape?

   30. MRMel Robbins25:14

       So based on all the research that you've done, you can train this system to be stronger and to work better for you?
7. 32:11 – 34:14

   Why Attention Peaks at 35 Then Declines

   1. AJDr. Amishi Jha32:11

      high-demand, high-stress circumstances, where it will become challenged and may fail. And nobody wants that to happen.

   2. MRMel Robbins32:19

      I love that your own experience had you turn your neuroscience researcher brain back on yourself, and that in an act of desperation, you're like, "Fine, I'll try this thing." Because I, uh, you know, when people hear the word meditation, they are, they're like, "I already know this," or they roll their eyes, right? And I love that it happened to you, because here you are studying attention academically, and you know that there's a deficit in research around what actually strengthens it, and if you even can. But now you're conducting an experiment (laughs) on yourself that pivots the entire trajectory of that lab, of the body of work and research that you've produced, and now what you have found when you're working with first responders and special forces and elite performers. And w- what happens to attention under stress? Like, how does this system-

   3. AJDr. Amishi Jha33:18

      Yeah.

   4. MRMel Robbins33:18

      ... of the spotlight, the floodlight, and the juggler get impacted when you're stressed out?

   5. AJDr. Amishi Jha33:23

      All of them fail. All of them fail. And we'll talk about specifically how they fail. But just wanted to say that, you know, if you d- if anybody deals with high-stress circumstances and it feels like life isn't working-

   6. MRMel Robbins33:36

      Yes.

   7. AJDr. Amishi Jha33:36

      ... that you're feeling fuzzy and foggy, probably the logical thing to do is change your life, just do something that doesn't produce those effects. Change your job, don't do as much stuff, uh, give up in some sense, and what-

   8. MRMel Robbins33:49

      But a lot of us can't.

   9. AJDr. Amishi Jha33:50

      Well, what I was gonna say is my whole orientation toward dealing with the situation that said, "I'm not changing my life, I am gonna change the way my brain functions," came from those formative experiences seeing, literally, a patient change his own brain. So the notion of neuroplasticity is the reason I turned toward the situation and said, "I've gotta figure out how to train this brain

8. 34:14 – 41:52

   The Truth About Stress and Attention

   1. AJDr. Amishi Jha34:14

      so that it can face the challenges that it's experiencing right now." And I'm really glad that I ha- I happened to be a neuroscientist who knew that this was possible.

   2. MRMel Robbins34:22

      So after two decades of, like, digging into this, what are some of the biggest-

   3. AJDr. Amishi Jha34:27

      So-

   4. MRMel Robbins34:27

      ... insights that excite you?

   5. AJDr. Amishi Jha34:28

      Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest insights that excite me are that each of these systems, the flashlight, floodlight, and juggler, are incredibly powerful when we think about elite performers, but really anybody that-

   6. MRMel Robbins34:41

      Uh-huh.

   7. AJDr. Amishi Jha34:41

      ... would feel the sense of agency and success in their life. It doesn't ha- you don't have to be a, you know, an Olympian to experience this. But we know what that feels like when the flashlight is on the right thing, when you're broad and receptive when you wanna be, and narrow and selective when you wanna be, when the goals are in your mind and your actions are aligned with it. We know what that feels like. Some might even call it that feeling of flow. And many, many people that are exceptional in what they do are capable of that. They can do it. But the other thing to know is that people that are in these, um, demanding positions, and again, this is all of us, will reach that moment, because we're always gonna push ourselves-

   8. MRMel Robbins35:16

      Mm-hmm.

   9. AJDr. Amishi Jha35:17

      ... it's almost like we push ourselves to the first moment of discomfort and we probably push past that. All of us who function fine under certain circumstances will be vulnerable to the flashlight not staying on the right thing, to feeling captured more than you want to, being overly broad when you know you need to narrow, or not narrow enough when you need to be narrow. Um, and w- what I've realized is that, um, for people undergoing multiple weeks, months of high demand, what they felt that they had the agency to do, what they felt was their peak performance will start to slip if the level of demand maintains itself.

   10. MRMel Robbins35:59

       Okay.

   11. AJDr. Amishi Jha35:59

       So if you think about, um, somebody... And this happened to me. And in fact, one of the very first studies we did, uh, I, I went into a military base and I was talking to a group of Marines, and I was talking about some of the dangers of, of high-stress intervals. And literally, this (laughs) very tough and scary-looking Marine stands up and, and says, "No, ma'am. Stress activates me. I perform at my best under stress."And I was first like, "Oh, my gosh." Um, but he was right. He's right. It is the case that stress can be very powerful to get us to perform at our best. But what he also needed to understand, because we had already studied this, is if the moments, the circumstances that make you feel like this is the peak moment, if that level of demand persists, you are going to start dipping into distress and dysfunction.

   12. MRMel Robbins36:48

       Mm.

   13. AJDr. Amishi Jha36:48

       And, and, uh, there is a very specific law, uh, within psychology called the Yerkes-Dodson law that explains this. And again-

   14. MRMel Robbins36:56

       The Yerkes-Dodson law?

   15. AJDr. Amishi Jha36:57

       Yes. (laughs)

   16. MRMel Robbins36:57

       That sounds like a dog...

   17. AJDr. Amishi Jha36:58

       (laughs) No, it's not a breed-

   18. MRMel Robbins37:01

       It's a cross between a Yorkie and a Dachshund.

   19. AJDr. Amishi Jha37:03

       (laughs)

   20. MRMel Robbins37:03

       (laughs)

   21. AJDr. Amishi Jha37:03

       It's not a new, it's not a new breed of dog. But basically, think about it like this. It's, uh, think of a graph and the, uh, graph has an inverted U shape, like just a U upside down.

   22. MRMel Robbins37:14

       An upside down U.

   23. AJDr. Amishi Jha37:14

       Yeah.

   24. MRMel Robbins37:15

       Yep.

   25. AJDr. Amishi Jha37:15

       So on, on the X axis is the level of stress. Low stress to high stress.

   26. MRMel Robbins37:23

       Got it.

   27. AJDr. Amishi Jha37:24

       And on the Y axis is your performance. Not performing well, excellent performance.

   28. MRMel Robbins37:28

       Okay.

   29. AJDr. Amishi Jha37:29

       So what we know is that when stress is low, so something like you need to get your taxes done, but not till next April. Stress is low, performance is low. We're not gonna engage when there's no demand.

   30. MRMel Robbins37:39

       Yeah, the- the flashlight's off.
9. 41:52 – 1:04:01

   How to Reclaim Focus in Just 12 Minutes

   1. MRMel Robbins41:52

      a period of our lives, or we are in one, where we are going to be experiencing a lot of stress.

   2. AJDr. Amishi Jha41:57

      Absolutely.

   3. MRMel Robbins41:57

      Or just really cranking on the attention system. One of my favorite moments in your book, Peak Mind, it's on page 156, is this story about a, you know, service member and their wife. And it was, uh, this story about something that the wife was always saying to her husband. And Cynthia was always saying to her husband, "Don't deploy before you deploy."... because through his multiple deployments, she had noticed that before he had physically gone to a war zone halfway around the world, he would already be mentally gone. Immediately, I thought of all the myriad ways so many of us might, quote, "deploy before we deploy," spending so much time in our heads planning and imagining the next upcoming thing, that we completely miss our lives in the moment. Can you unpack that insight for us because that is so... You don't have to be in the military to understand when you're not there because you're already six weeks ahead, or you're not here because you're thinking about something that's stressing you out at work. Like, talk to me about what's happening there.

   4. AJDr. Amishi Jha43:13

      Absolutely. So we were just talking about how high-demand intervals g- engage attention and deplete attention-

   5. MRMel Robbins43:21

      Okay.

   6. AJDr. Amishi Jha43:21

      ... right? Through the kind of demands that you've got on yourself. But remember we said at the outset, attention is external and internal. And if the scenarios that we are crafting in our mind are simulations of those high-demand circumstances, that also seems to deplete attention.

   7. MRMel Robbins43:40

      Okay, so let me just see if I can get this. Hold on a second. Because the brain doesn't truly know the difference between doing the real thing versus being up in your mind, thinking and worrying about the thing, both of which require you to tap the attention system. And you're basically saying, any time you spend worrying about what's coming or ruminating about what's happening, you're not only using the attention system, you are stressing it out and weakening it before the actual thing you're worried about.

   8. AJDr. Amishi Jha44:20

      Absolutely. So that is don't deploy before you deploy. It's a, it's a real w- it's a really wise reminder that says there is no need to continue to stimulate in that way because actually, life is happening right now. I mean, I think what she was calling upon was, you know, her husband was gone every other year in those early days of, of, um, post-9/11. And he was missing his children, he was missing his time with his spouse because he was already in, back in, uh, the war zone. So I think that's a really powerful reminder to tell us that we should really be thinking about not just the challenges ahead, but the costs of being in those challenges before they arise. What are we missing if we do that?

   9. MRMel Robbins45:05

      So one of the things that you recommend, based on decades of research in terms of training your brain and strengthening the attention system, is 12 minutes of, a day of mindfulness training. How the heck did you arrive at that specific time?

   10. AJDr. Amishi Jha45:22

       (laughs)

   11. MRMel Robbins45:22

       12 minutes.

   12. AJDr. Amishi Jha45:23

       Yeah, I mean, it was a, a long journey to figure it out, but basically, I knew that if we were dealing with busy people with consequential jobs, and frankly, again, that's all of us, we don't wanna spend a moment more than is needed. We needed a minimum effective dose. So let's even, let's talk about the term meditation 'cause I wanna kinda demystify that-

   13. MRMel Robbins45:40

       Okay.

   14. AJDr. Amishi Jha45:40

       ... as well. From the neuroscience point of view, uh, m- meditation, which is part of every major, uh, world spiritual, uh, tradition, yeah, I see it as engaging in specific activities to cultivate specific mental qualities. So-

   15. MRMel Robbins45:57

       In, in specific ways. Okay.

   16. AJDr. Amishi Jha45:57

       ... think about the analogy of the term meditation to the term sports, right?

   17. MRMel Robbins46:01

       Okay.

   18. AJDr. Amishi Jha46:01

       It's like a sport.

   19. MRMel Robbins46:02

       Yeah.

   20. AJDr. Amishi Jha46:02

       You have a general category of, okay, yeah, you're doing something, it's physical, but there are a whole variety of sports. What somebody has to do to become an Olympic-level, you know, gymnast is very different than going and golfing.

   21. MRMel Robbins46:14

       Got it.

   22. AJDr. Amishi Jha46:15

       So the specificity matters and-

   23. MRMel Robbins46:17

       Okay.

   24. AJDr. Amishi Jha46:17

       But it tells us that m- meditation is a good umbrella term for a category of human activity to cultivate something-

   25. MRMel Robbins46:23

       Okay.

   26. AJDr. Amishi Jha46:23

       ... usually good stuff, right?

   27. MRMel Robbins46:25

       Okay.

   28. AJDr. Amishi Jha46:25

       Um, that's why we would say it's connected to wisdom and, and spiritual, uh, uh, uh, practices. Mindfulness meditation is a very specific way that we're gonna do exercises to cultivate a mindful mode, and I'll, I'll tell you what I think that means. So mindfulness is a mental mode. It's a, we all can be mindful. And that mode, meaning a way to make your mind, has to do with paying attention to our present moment experience in a particular way.

   29. MRMel Robbins46:56

       Okay.

   30. AJDr. Amishi Jha46:56

       So what's the particular way? I would say paying attention to the here and now without reacting to what's going on, or what I'm gonna say is conceptually elaborating on what's happening. So plainly saying, be in the here and the now without a story about it.
10. 1:04:01 – 1:13:09

    Train Your Brain to Regain Focus

    1. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:04:01

       very focused or very happy. It really is about better awareness of what's happening to you moment by moment in your life.

    2. MRMel Robbins1:04:09

       Mm-hmm. S- Dr. Amishi, can you tell us, like, a, a-another example of one of these 12-minute exercises?

    3. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:04:15

       Sure, absolutely, yeah.

    4. MRMel Robbins1:04:15

       Like, just to give us a sense of the breadth of-

    5. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:04:17

       Absolutely.

    6. MRMel Robbins1:04:18

       ...the different things you can do?

    7. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:04:19

       Yeah. So, you know, there's really... I mean, I'll tell you all, I, I'll give you the general idea of what-

    8. MRMel Robbins1:04:22

       Right.

    9. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:04:22

       ...all, all four of them are. These are, by the way, you know, I'm sitting here, I'm talking to you, I'm talking to you from a neuroscience point of view. But these practices are part of the world's wisdom traditions. There are many teachers, there are many apps. Like, you know, and I use the language of attention in the way that I describe it. So, this breath awareness practice we talked about-

    10. MRMel Robbins1:04:39

        Mm-hmm.

    11. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:04:40

        ...where you focus on your breath, your mind wanders, I call that the find your flashlight practice. And I did that on purpose because it's not about, "Get your flashlight-"

    12. MRMel Robbins1:04:47

        (laughs) .

    13. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:04:47

        "...where it needs to be and stay there." It's like, no, no, no. Find it. Where is it? Oh, there it is, let's get it back. It's a more gentle, self-supportive, and very clear set of instructions. It's not-

    14. MRMel Robbins1:04:58

        Mm-hmm.

    15. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:04:58

        ..."Let your flashlight go over wherever it wants." It's, "Find it, so that you can get it back to the goal." Um, the other kinds of practices are really around these same ideas. And again, I use the language of attention. So, the n- the next in the sequence is something called the body scan. So, I love that at the top of our conversation you were saying, "Hey, is it about just the eyes and ears?" No, it's about attention to much more, including the rest of the body. So in this practice, we sort of up the ante a little bit. It's not about one sensory experience and returning our flashlight there. It's about scanning the body.

    16. MRMel Robbins1:05:31

        Mm.

    17. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:05:31

        So, we start with the tips of the toes, and we say, "Okay," and y- and you're guided to do this. So, you're gonna focus your flashlight on the, you know, the, your big toe, and you're gonna kind of progress through the body.

    18. MRMel Robbins1:05:41

        Yeah.

    19. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:05:42

        And again, wherever you're being guided to pay attention, you're gonna wander off, you're gonna come back. And this allows you to have sort of a moving target, if you will. But the other really powerful aspect of this body scan practice, which is what it's called, is you start really understanding what's going on in the body. And what you start even getting a sense of is, "Oh, sometimes when I'm, like, having a really hard time, um, you know, and it get to my shoulders and I feel like there's a knot in my shoulders, it's accompanied by a particular thought or a set of emotions or a memory." So, we're getting a sense that the body is embodying what our mind and our life is all about. And that helps us, again, grow in a familiarity and intimacy about w- what's going on with us. So, the body scan practice still strengthens all three of the systems of attention, and has this extra bonus of making us more familiar with our embodied life.

    20. MRMel Robbins1:06:35

        Can you just, like, walk me through, like, toes to knees so we can get a sense of what this is like?

    21. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:06:40

        Yeah, sure.

    22. MRMel Robbins1:06:41

        Okay.

    23. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:06:41

        Sure. All right. So go ahead and sit comfortable, upright, alert posture. And you can lower or close your eyes, whichever you prefer. And let's just start by just, just three deeper breaths, just to kinda anchor ourselves here and now. Just breathing in.Breathing out. Breathing in. And out. And one more time. And now that we are here, with our bodies fully present, sitting and breathing, let's take that flashlight of attention and point it to our big toe. Just direct it there. All you're doing with your flashlight there is just noticing any sensations happening in the big toe. Pick a side. Let's say, your left toe. What's going on? Coolness, tingling, or maybe no sensation at all. And now, move your flashlight to the rest of your toes. Just broaden it out a little bit, checking out what's going on in the rest of the toes. Move the flashlight up to your ankle on your left leg. Staying right there with the sensations in the left ankle. If your mind wanders, no problem. Just return it back to this part of the body. And you can now guide your flashlight up to your calf. What do you feel there? Tension, maybe soreness, coolness. Try to get really granular in the sensory experience that's going on right now in this part of the body. Your mind may drift away. That's okay. Just notice it and bring the flashlight of attention back. And finally, let's move up to the knee, the left knee. The front of the knee, the back of the knee. Noticing what's going on right now in this part of the body. And as we end this practice, let's just take the entire lower part of our left leg, broaden the flashlight out so we've got the entire part, from tips of the toes all the way to the knee. We're shining our flashlight there, paying attention to this part of the body. And when you're ready, in the next moment or two, feel free to open your eyes and return your attention back to us.

    24. MRMel Robbins1:10:38

        That was pretty cool. First of all, you have an incredible voice for guided meditation.

    25. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:10:42

        Aw, thanks. (laughs)

    26. MRMel Robbins1:10:43

        Very, very soothing. But I cannot believe how wandering my mind is. Like, every time you had a cue, I would go, and then my mind was somewhere else. Like, when you cued the ankle, you know what my thought was? "Wait." (laughs) "Is the ankle on both sides of your legs or is it only on the outside?" (laughs) "Is there an inner ankle or is there a..." (laughs) And then I started going, "Why do I not know this?" You know what I mean? (laughs) Like...

    27. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:11:13

        Totally fine, but that's really cool that you noticed that. That is really a win. So the fact that you noticed, wow, I had this whole, like, conversation. When I said mindfulness is about paying attention to our present moment experience without conceptual elaboration, you just experienced conceptual elaboration. So, and you caught it. You said, "Ah, look at me, I'm just, like, proliferating all these thoughts."

    28. MRMel Robbins1:11:33

        Yes.

    29. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:11:34

        And then all, the good news is, all you need to do when that happens is back to the ankle.

    30. MRMel Robbins1:11:39

        Yeah, I just would go, like, "Okay, flashlight back on the outside."
11. 1:13:09 – 1:20:08

    Attention is the Most Generous Thing You Give

    1. MRMel Robbins1:13:09

    2. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:13:09

       (laughs)

    3. MRMel Robbins1:13:09

       You could be doing this, you know, during a boring meeting at work, and nobody even knows. Like, you could do this anytime you want.

    4. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:13:16

       Anytime you want. And I do have a little recommendation for when people... How people can get started, even if they don't want to start with the-

    5. MRMel Robbins1:13:21

       Please. Yes.

    6. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:13:21

       ... formal recommendation.

    7. MRMel Robbins1:13:22

       Okay.

    8. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:13:23

       And it's like doing a mini-practice. So, this is something called the STOP practice. And if you wanna remember when to do it, do it anytime you're stopped. Like-

    9. MRMel Robbins1:13:32

       Oh, like sitting at a traffic light or anywhere?

    10. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:13:34

        Standing at an elevator.

    11. MRMel Robbins1:13:36

        Or standing in line at a store.

    12. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:13:37

        Standing in line at a store.

    13. MRMel Robbins1:13:38

        Okay.

    14. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:13:38

        You know, anytime you're stopped. Yeah, and by the way, if you're not stopped, you can feel free to stop. So, it's a, it's an acronym, the STOP practice itself, and it, it's like this. So, first is S, stop. Literally stop. So, don't move. Just stay still. T, take a breath. O, observe. And that really is this broad res- um, receptive quality of like, "What's going on right now?" P, proceed.

    15. MRMel Robbins1:14:11

        That's beautiful. Really, really cool. I love how you are so driven to help people and to make a difference with this research. I mean, I realize that's why researchers do research, but you can just... It comes through-

    16. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:14:25

        Mm.

    17. MRMel Robbins1:14:25

        ... in your passion for it, and the heart that's behind it. Um, you know, in... Toward the end of your book, you have this incredible, beautiful section that is labeled, "Attention is your highest form of love." And there is this wonderful quote. This is on page 251. "To me, a peak mind is not about perfection or being at some imaginary pinnacle, like you might see on a successory poster, the woman on a mountaintop, arms flung in the air, relishing her peak experience. A peak mind is not about striving to get somewhere else. It's simpler, more elegant, and doable. I think of it like a triangle. The base is the present moment, and the sides are two forms of attention. One side, receptive attention, so we can notice, observe, and be. And the other side, concentrative attention, so we are focused and flexible." Why is your attention your highest form of love?

    18. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:15:39

        I mean, if you think about it from your own experience, how do you experience care from another person? It starts with attention. And extending care starts with attention.

    19. MRMel Robbins1:15:54

        Mm.

    20. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:15:54

        So, from my point of view, one of the real values of cultivating your attention is to use it in the service of the deepest and most meaningful things that we do in our lives as it relates to our relationships with other people.

    21. MRMel Robbins1:16:06

        Mm.

    22. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:16:07

        So, it is a form of love. Attention is a form of love. It's the most you can give of yourself. It is literally giving the full capacity of your brain and devoting it to another person.

    23. MRMel Robbins1:16:19

        That is so beautiful.

    24. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:16:21

        (laughs)

    25. MRMel Robbins1:16:21

        I would love for you to speak directly to the person that's been here with us, just listening and learning from you. And there's so much that you shared with us, that you taught us, um, that you've given to us, so thank you. But if there was one thing that they were to do after hearing all of this from you, what do you think the most important thing to do is?

    26. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:16:50

        The biggest call to action, and it's a very simple one, is pay attention to your attention.

    27. MRMel Robbins1:16:57

        Mm.

    28. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:16:58

        Really pay attention to your attention. It is the most powerful thing you can do for yourself and advantaging everything else in your life. And it's not a big to-do. It's literally checking in and seeing where it is.

    29. MRMel Robbins1:17:12

        Dr. Amishi, what are your parting words?

    30. AJDr. Amishi Jha1:17:16

        My big thing that I want to say to everybody that's listening is that, you know, we now know in 2025 that daily physical exercise is necessary for our physical health. And I'm very happy to say that now we also know that there is something we can do to exercise our mind so that our wellbeing and our mind's health can be optimal. And you can do this with investing as little as 12 minutes a day.

Episode duration: 1:20:08